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Hong Kong Has No Space Left for the Dead (vice.com)
Justin Heifetz, writing for Motherboard: When Fung Wai-tsun's family carried their grandfather's ashes across the Hong Kong border to Mainland China in 2013, they worried Customs officers, thinking the urn was full of drugs, would stop them. Fung, like many others in Hong Kong, could not find a space to lay his loved one to rest in his own city and would have to settle for a site across the border and hours away. It's an increasingly common story as demand for spaces to house the dead outpaces supply here in the semi-autonomous Chinese territory of some 7.4 million people. Hong Kong's public, government-run spaces to store ashes -- which are affordable to the public, starting at $360 -- have waiting lists that can last years. But many Chinese, like Fung, strongly believe the ashes must be put in a resting place immediately as to not disrespect their ancestor's spirit. Meanwhile, a private space -- one that is not run by the government -- tends to start at more than $6,000 and can go for as high as $130,000. This is simply not an option for many families like the Fung's. In Hong Kong, most people cremate their loved ones and house the urns in columbariums, or spaces where people can then go to pay their respects. While burying a body is possible, the option is prohibitively expensive -- and besides, Hong Kong has a law that the body must be exhumed after six years, at which point one must be cremated.
It initially struck my as very odd that there could be a waiting list for space to open up at a place to store the dead...
And we all know what that is.
Make Room! Make Room!
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
What about mixing cremated ash into cement and concrete? One can then literally become "one with the city". Soylent Cement Co.? Corporations ARE people? Let the jokes roll...
Table-ized A.I.
Why are you here? Slashdot has never been only tech
The Slashdot headline AI is now doing Halloween stories. I like it.
You are welcome on my lawn.
man, you interpreted that quite differently than I did.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
San Francisco voted to stop burying dead folks in the city way back in 1900. Rich folks had their graves moved. Poor folks often didn't get moved at all. http://www.7x7.com/the-dark-hi...
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
It's related to tech through science-fiction writing. Many authors based stories on the prospect of the world running out of space and alternative solutions being found (removing health and safety laws to increase death rates), allowing the population to eliminate each other to get birth permits. Star Wars even had an entire planet based on this problem (Coruscant).
Some countries like Bangladesh and Singapore have also run out of space. Bangladesh is begging other countries to take their surplus population. Hong Kong already has "coffin apartments". The next stage for them is to start building over the oceans or reclaiming land.
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
Cemeteries: there's another idea whose time has passed! Saving all the dead people in one part of town? What the hell kind of a superstitious religious medieval bullshit idea is that? Plow these motherfuckers up, plow them into the streams and rivers of America, we need that phosphorus for farming! If we're gonna recycle, let's get serious!
—George Carlin, Jammin' In New York (1992)
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
Why not just find a nice little spot in your home to store the ashes? In fact, I would start making a picture frame/box combo for families. Ashes in the box on the back, picture of the deceased on the front. Hang it up on the wall or place it on a shelf.
Here in the USA there seems to be a huge emphasis on the "preservation of the body". I remember when some of my family has died and the funeral directors actually used these words. And they use cement lined burial plots with sealed coffins. I simply don't get it.
The person that died is done with their body, so they don't need it preserved. Us living people will never see the body ever again, so we don't need it preserved. We should just bore a 3 foot wide hole about 12 feet deep, drop the body in head-first, and cover it back up.
Cremation seems a bit overkill too, and uses an enormous amount of energy. We should probably do communal cremation (100 at a time?) to save energy and space.
There's nothing about what I'm saying that is disrespectful to the persons who have passed. Tell me where I'm wrong.
A long time ago Slashdot abandoned technology stories in favor of stories about large tech companies like Uber, IBM, Facebook, Google, Apple, Intel, Amazon, Microsoft, Motorola, Asus, AMD, Kaspersky, etc ad nauseum. But now it appears they have completely abandoned the tech angle altogether. I look forward to future stories on the maiting habits of Australian fruit bats.
"En masse". And no, they don't, if a body has been claimed. The body is transported to the private facility of the next of kin's choice.
isn't HongKong it's own separate state and independent country with the fastest internet on the planet because it's incredibly small size?
Woodchipper, chum, fishing, drinking (hired diver hanging my junk on friends hook).
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
When there's no room left in Hong Kong, the dead will go to mainland China...
I've been there several times and I have an ex-girlfriend who was born and raised in Guangdong province, which is the part of China just outside Hong Kong and Macau. She and I talked about this. I can't say for all of China, but definitely in Guangdong and Hong Kong and Macau the people there have, by western standards, weird ideas about dead people. There is some real fear of the dead and of ghosts. Of course there is still land in Hong Kong where they could possibly put a cemetery, even if it just was for cremated remains. The real problem is that no Chinese person in Hong Kong wants to live anywhere near a cemetery and they raise holy hell every time any developer tries to put one near where they live. So the upshot is that nobody can ever build a new cemetery anywhere because there isn't any more land that really isn't inhabited by somebody close enough to complain about it. Think of it kind of like trying to build an above ground nuclear waste disposal site and you're really close to the kind of vehement opposition that cemeteries get there. I think it's been well over 10 years, maybe multiple decades, since the last "new" cemetery got opened there and people threw fits about that but it got done anyway. The government simply doesn't want public order disturbed and have the PLA start flexing its muscle so it's just easier to not build new cemeteries so the residents don't complain and if they have to spend many thousands of dollars of money they don't really have to find a place to stash the ashes of Uncle Fong because they are too scared to live near a cemetery that might solve the problem, then that's just how it is. Short of basically having the PLA kill people or throw them in jail if they complain, there's no real solution for this when citizens are convinced that even seeing a cemetery might bring them "bad luck".
Slashdot should have been buried long ago as well.
Mike @ The Geek Pub. Let's Make Stuff!
When I die, my organs will be donated to people who need them. I've specified in my driver's license and my will, that I be an organ donor when I die.
One organ donor can save eight lives. The wait for a kidney can be 5 or 10 years.
When I renew my driver's license, I always check the "Yes" box for "Do you want to be an organ donor?"
Just saying.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Hong Kong is a coastal city/region; problem solved.
"I'm not dead yet! I feel like dancing!"
"Can't you come back later?!"
Because that's how you get Soylent Green. /MaloryArcher
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What do you mean? African or European Australian fruit b... D'oh!
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You want to pollute the oceans! You're a very, very bad man. /BabuBhatt
#DeleteFacebook
There are a number of companies that will take the ashes from cremation and use them to make a diamond. Wouldn't that be respectful for the ancestor? Turn them into a diamond, make a pendant, and they can be remembered daily. Brings an entirely different meaning to the phrase "family jewels".
For millennia, we used to recycle the remains of people. We would bury them, and then when we needed more space, we'd move the bones to ossuaries, then we would use the dust from those bones to make walls with.
Why not accelerate the process and mix the ashes from the cremated remains into Memorial buildings that are used for ceremonies, like convention centers or other buildings not in continual use, and provide access for those interred in the very building to be remembered according to their religious preferences?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I assume those countries have at least put into place a 1-child-per-family law to handle this problem. Otherwise anything else they do is a short term non-solution.
That's not a solution. Also consider that Singapore has a completely different economic profile than Bangladesh. Ergo, the problems Singapore experiences are differently than Bangladesh' (and Singapore is capable of meet them whereas Bangladesh currently cannot.)
It's related to tech through science-fiction writing. Many authors based stories on the prospect of the world running out of space and alternative solutions being found (removing health and safety laws to increase death rates), allowing the population to eliminate each other to get birth permits. Star Wars even had an entire planet based on this problem (Coruscant).
Some countries like Bangladesh and Singapore have also run out of space. Bangladesh is begging other countries to take their surplus population. Hong Kong already has "coffin apartments".
One important distinction is that Singapore has a different economic profile than Bangladesh. Singapore's problems are about having a high population density on a small landmass which causes it to spend significantly more from its very rich coffers. OTH, Bangladesh is about high population density on not necessarily a small landmass combined with rampant poverty. Unlike Singapore, Bangladesh cannot meet with the challenges.
The next stage for them is to start building over the oceans or reclaiming land.
SK has already done this with Incheon International Airport.
Japan pulls these moves with even more impressive numbers. Pretty much some nice areas in the Shinagawa district (where I've been, very nice btw) are built on top of reclaimed land over Tokyo Bay. Chubu Centrair International Airport is another example. Everytime I go to Tokyo, the scope of ongoing land reclamation is impressive, almost right out of a sci-fi book.
Have gnu, will travel.
don't waste space on dead people
it makes no sense you even have a choice about this
Or skip the energy waste of cremation and just go with a natural burial in a compostable coffin:
https://www.livescience.com/74...
When I die, I want to be dismembered and parts of my body surgically implanted in other, still living people. Then my tastes and personality traits can slowly, subtly, influence the recipient -- to commit MURDER!
That's why I check the box.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
On Earth in the 21st century, travel and communication are cheaper and easier than ever before. Yet an increasing percentage of the population lives in concentrated urban areas. Go figure.
Don't they have toilets there?
It all lands in the sea anyway.
You know, I used to be with you on this. I'm also an opponent to superstition, but I've grown to actually really like cemeteries - they make great neighbours!
I think it's dumb to bury bodies, but the cemetery a block from me here in Victoria, BC, is actually a really beautiful spot with lots of big trees, and interesting old tombstones (dating back into the 1800's.) IMO it's a very valuable greenspace, and probably will remain that way for a very long time. (Look up the Ross Bay Cemetery.)
Overall I'd prefer a park, but this is very nearly that..but with many less people. ;)
When I lived in Vancouver for a few years, I was also near a cemetery, and really appreciated it for walks, runs, etc.. The rest of my area was houses and busy streets. It was nice to be able to avoid a lot of that and 'get away' a bit just a few blocks away.
Again, parks would be preferred, but I've come to appreciate the greenspace (at least the one here. I know other cemeteries are much more 'sterile', coming off more as a golf course than anything..bleh..)
My rambling 2c..
In You Only Live Twice, Her Royal Navy buried James Bond at sea, the sea being Hong Kong harbor, and he wasn't actually dead.
Maybe these idiot Chinese people will enter the 21st century and stop worrying about superstitious nonsense like "disrespecting their ancestor's spirit." I only wish there was a way we could convince all the idiot Christians in the west of this, and outlaw cemeteries once and for all. This is one area where China should exert it's authority over stupid people and require that the bodies be converted into fertilizer to serve the greater good of society in the most environmentally friendly way possible. Cremation releases lots of CO2 and other toxic gasses into the air and is unacceptable.
Christians aren't the only ones who venerate the dead. Most cultures in the world do.
I belong to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. We believe that at some point our spirits will be reunited with our perfected bodies in the resurrection. For us, resurrection is universal and not limited to just believers. In terms of taking care of our dead, we generally follow whatever society where we live. Chinese Mormons cremate their dead, while most American Mormons are laid to rest in a casket in a cemetery. Mormons are not adverse to organ donations. Scripture tells us that man was created from the dust and will return to dust, so we believe that God won't have a problem re-organizing that crude matter into perfected bodies. Scripture also tells us that not even a single hair from our head will be lost, so it won't matter if we donate an organ. We also like to believe that those born with birth defects or otherwise maimed during this life will be made perfect in the resurrection.
Except it doesn't work in reality. See The Ganges.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
I suppose the answer is to have more babies somehow.
Wheear 'ast tha bin sin' ah saw thee, ah saw thee?
On Ilkla Mooar baht 'at
Wheear 'ast tha bin sin' ah saw thee, ah saw thee?
Wheear 'ast tha bin sin' ah saw thee?
On Ilkla Mooar baht 'at
On Ilkla Mooar baht 'at
On Ilkla Mooar baht 'at
Tha's been a cooartin' Mary Jane
Tha's bahn' to catch thy deeath o' cowd
Then us'll ha' to bury thee
Then t'worms'll come an' eyt thee oop
Then t'ducks'll come an' eyt up t'worms
Then us'll go an' eyt up t'ducks
Then us'll all ha' etten thee
That's wheear we get us ooan back
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
If you harbor a number of superstitions, and you are willing to pay top dollar for their sake - you are thoroughly stupid. But, by all means, pay through the nose.
Some background reading so that you can appear knowledgeable when my articles finally get through the editorial filters ;)
Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
The next stage for them is to start building over the oceans or reclaiming land.
Most of the Hong Kong harbour front is already on reclaimed land. The airport was built on a man made island...
Philistine! You don't discard the ashes, you put them in a terracotta urn and play test cricket over who gets to hold onto it.
You mean, one-death-per-family?
no, I don't have a sig
Just cremate people in power plants.
no, I don't have a sig
Hong kong becomes the first produser of Soylent Green, line up now for you weekly rashon
Cremation? But what about the Resurrection?
Also, to point out, the reason a corpse is cremated in a casket is so that there are some ashes to put in the urn.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
What makes you think HK doesn't already do this? Remember HK is just a richer part of China, and China make islands in the sea.
Where did I say that I *thought* HK doesn't already do it?
Mandatory cremation after 6 years?
Now we know why Hong Kong has never had a vampire problem.
Tracy Johnson
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BT
Actually, didn't the new HK airport built shortly before HK returning to China use reclaimed land?