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Google's Sentiment Analyzer Thinks Being Gay Is Bad (vice.com)

gooddogsgotoheaven shares a report from Motherboard: In July 2016, Google announced the public beta launch of a new machine learning application program interface (API), called the Cloud Natural Language API. It allows developers to incorporate Google's deep learning models into their own applications. As the company said in its announcement of the API, it lets you "easily reveal the structure and meaning of your text in a variety of languages." In addition to entity recognition (deciphering what's being talked about in a text) and syntax analysis (parsing the structure of that text), the API included a sentiment analyzer to allow programs to determine the degree to which sentences expressed a negative or positive sentiment, on a scale of -1 to 1. The problem is the API labels sentences about religious and ethnic minorities as negative -- indicating it's inherently biased. For example, it labels both being a Jew and being a homosexual as negative. A Google spokesperson issued the following statement in response to Motherboard's request for comment: "We dedicate a lot of efforts to making sure the NLP API avoids bias, but we don't always get it right. This is an example of one of those times, and we are sorry. We take this seriously and are working on improving our models. We will correct this specific case, and, more broadly, building more inclusive algorithms is crucial to bringing the benefits of machine learning to everyone."

453 comments

  1. Comments by youngone · · Score: 0

    This ought to be good.

    1. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I expect a lot of rage from people who hate being told to be senstive, considerate, and fume over political correctness as they scream about their fake holiday to their fictional White Guy.

    2. Re:Comments by AaronW · · Score: 1, Insightful

      A lot of people rage over being called out for their bigoted or homophobic remarks. Freedom of speech does not equal freedom from the negative consequences of said speech. Fixed it for you. People rage over the consequences of being an insensitive jerk.

      --
      This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
    3. Re:Comments by stephanruby · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Their api is trying to be too universal and monolithic.

      Gay is neither good or bad. Gay is just a label. Google should be able to recognize that 'gay' means one thing when a bigot uses it, but it should also recognize that 'gay' means something else when others use it.

      In other words, the meaning of words should be heavily weighed on the training data of the individual listening/reading and on the training data of the individual speaking/writing.

    4. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being "sensitive" is being dishonest and wastes everyone's time. I prefer to be direct.

    5. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually this pokes a bigger hole in their algorithm. EVERYTHING has context. To gun nuts, democrats are going to seem bad. To democrats, democrats are going to seem good. EVERYTHING HAS BIASES. Kind of a huge oversight with Google, you need the context of the reader's biases to even begin to predict positive or negative rating of any text.

    6. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sexual relations are enjoyable. Positive sentiment detected.

    7. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assholery thinly disguised as passive aggression. Negative sentiment detected.

    8. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Word "good" found. Positive sentiment detected.

    9. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck you too.

    10. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Happiness about irrational bigotry found. Positive sentiment detected.

    11. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Words "White Guy" found. Positive sentiment detected.

    12. Re:Comments by rtb61 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, to be fair, if you are a women, looking to get married and pregnant, homosexual men are evil. They are inherently prejudiced against women, misogynists of the worst order, only willing to share their bodies, cooking abilities, cleaning skills and their wallets with other men, the horror for fat lazy ugly heterosexual women (even though I do recognise that it has been proven, that perception of appearance is not driven by exceptional appearance but by super average appearance, you are not exceptionally attractive, just exceptionally average, you face lacking all character), especially when they are feminists wanting to dominate effeminate men, the hen pecked (it would be funnier if it weren't true, believe me, well if you are hen pecked not so funny but for us slackers super funny) ;D.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    13. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Description of consensual sexual play found. Positive sentiment detected.

    14. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Attempt at nuance found. Ambivalent sentiment detected.

    15. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm gay and I think being gay is "bad". I wouldn't wish it on anyone growing up. It makes life more difficult. Dating pool is much smaller. There's still homophobia everywhere. If I had a kid I wouldn't want them to be gay, I'd want them to have a chance at a "normal" life. I'd be absolutely loving and accepting if they were gay but I don't want them to have to go through any of the shit I did.

      I can see why gay would end up with a -.

    16. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Also, some people hate being exposed to facts that interfere with their beliefs, such as black people commit 217 times more violent crimes, gay men are 12 times more likely to be pedophiles, etc.

      You are guilty of the same behavior you're pretending to be smugly self-righteous about.

    17. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anti-Google opinion found. Negative sentiment detected.

    18. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Invitation to consensual group sex found. Positive sentiment detected.

    19. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unable to tell if advanced troll or real moron. No sentiment detected. Please provide additional training data.

    20. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Words "bigoted", "homophobic", "jerk" found. Negative sentiment detected.

      META: Message had to be decrypted prior to parsing. Please forward to legal.

    21. Re:Comments by LetterRip · · Score: 1

      They used character by character training, rather than words tagged with word sense.

      More sophisticated 'word sense' tagging can be done which can differentiate between all of the various meanings of gay, but for most words there isn't enough data to train all of the word senses sufficiently.

    22. Re:Comments by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'm gay and I think being gay is "bad".

      I am straight and I think gays are "good". Gay tend to be DINKs (double income no kids), so they have high household incomes and can afford nice houses. They pay property taxes to support the schools, but don't have kids, leading to higher per student educational spending. They contribute to a thriving urban culture and nightlife.

      I live in the SF Bay Area, and gays are a big part of the reason this is a nice place to live, with great schools, creative jobs, safe neighborhoods, and interesting culture. Thank you for being gay.

    23. Re:Comments by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Informative

      In fairness, Google is marketing this API for a somewhat narrow purpose: Determining whether a customer left a *positive* or *negative* reaction to a customer's comment in your company support forums, for example, or attempting to determine customer reaction from support interactions.

      This little fact is somewhat obfuscated in the summary, in which it seems to be billing it as a more general-purpose system that's making sweeping value judgements about society. Within this actual context, let's be honest, if you see those terms in your company's customer support forums, what do you think of the likelihood is of them being part of positive or negative comments? Yeah, exactly.

      The big mistake that Google made is not putting a politically correct filter on their API to make sure controversial words had a neutral value, even if that wasn't really the case. Otherwise, you generate flamebait headlines like we see here, wherein highly limited "AI" algorithms simply regurgitates the training material it was fed without any deep or sophisticated understanding.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    24. Re:Comments by barbariccow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That brings up a point I was going to raise: it's odd that this algorithm would be summative of values for individual words rather than trying to derive a context. Given that would be a really stupid design, my guess (if you think I read TFA you best check the url you're currently on) is that they tested this by taking a sentence like "You're so happy", got a score, replaced it with "you're so gay!" or "you're such a jew!" and got a negative sentiment whereas things like "you're so funny" generally had a positive context. I.e. biased testing.

    25. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Word "homosexuality" found. Negative sentiment detected.

    26. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sadness found. Negative sentiment detected.

    27. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live in the SF Bay Area, and gays are a big part of the reason this is a nice place to live...

      I think the best part is the "This will cause cancer" signs on everything

    28. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Must be so rough being a bigot.

    29. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good and evil are binary categories for the uneducated--it's really all relative to an individual perspective and it's never binary.

      Your analogy fails to be useful because theives directly affect others through the act of stealing an asset from another, displacing some portion of their livelihood.

      Homosexuals only affect each other so regardless of your perspective of them, they aren't directly affecting you (unless you are a homosexual as well, in which case they may be *very deeply* affecting you).

    30. Re:Comments by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      I think the best part is the "This will cause cancer" signs on everything

      Only the tourists notice those. Natives don't even see them anymore. Every business with a fax machine or printer or refrigerator has to have cancer warning signs, so you see one on every door and it means nothing ... just like the alarms at Three Mile Island that went off several times a day for innocuous reasons, conditioning the employees to tune them out.

    31. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I found your confusion: you inherently associate leftist views with factual information about reality. In the case of facts, you really can't disagree with them other than expressing how you feel about the information.

      Now, if the leftist is spewing non-factual/logical information, please do disagree and correct them, there's plenty of Looney anti-vaxer leftists that could use a smack in the face.

    32. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean great places like haight ashbury and the 'pride' events where bear leathermen walk around with their twink boyfriends on leashes in public to express their pride?

      Oh, yay, so glad I live there too... because of shit like that. Sure.

    33. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should read the definition of "facts" as you seem to have confused the term with other unsimilar terms: "fiction", "myth", "bull....

      I realize that reading and comprehension may not be your in your drawer of skills but I'm sure someone can explain this to you.

    34. Re: Comments by Xenx · · Score: 1

      Homosexuals only affect each other so regardless of your perspective of them, they aren't directly affecting you (unless you are a homosexual as well, in which case they may be *very deeply* affecting you).

      Well, not if you're of the opposite sex.

    35. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think it's appropriate to tune out "this product causes cancer" warnings. For most people, it won't even matter. They'll die of being a fatass (cardiovascular complications is the number one cause of death in America) long before they even have a chance of dying from cancerous causes. For those skinny healthy people, maybe heed the warning about cancer.

    36. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You realize it's a sentiment analysis which, brace yourself, means the finding is based on... wait for it... sentiment in the dataset. I know it's difficult to grasp but sentiment is the opinion conveyed within the sample set. This doesn't make the item in question positive or negative, it simply says the perception of the item is positive or negative.

      So, in conclusion, Google sentiment analysis confirmed what we've been seeing for the past year: ignorant bigots are rampant and factual/knowledgable understandings about reality are scarce and in decline.

    37. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol "Sensitive" fedora detected

      Try not to rage over being called a faggot. There's nothing wrong with being gay.

    38. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shaddap dumb Trump faggot, we hear you we just tune your retarded ass right out.

    39. Re:Comments by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How often are parents disappointed that their kid is straight? Being gay is subjectively more often bad than good and everyone knows it.

    40. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately, you're right. It's disappointing to see this on Slashdot because I hoped some users might have an understanding of how AI works and could comment intelligently. I think there's a reasonable hypothesis to explain this behavior, but I haven't seen it in the comments I've read thus far.

      AI needs to be trained in order to function, just like a child doesn't automatically understand how to speak and understand language. AI behavior is a product of its basic design, such as the neural network topology, and the training data set. It seems unlikely that this behavior is a product of the neural network design, so it's more likely a product of the training data set.

      The word "gay" has taken on multiple meanings over time. Several decades ago, gay was understood to mean happy, an inherently positive connotation. That use of the word is obsolete. A couple of decades ago, it was common to say that something or someone was gay to indicate that it was bad or stupid, including things that clearly had no sexual orientation. This meaning is less common now but was widely used a decade or two ago. The word also started taking on a meaning relating to sexual orientation. In the case of something being gay, the meaning was almost certainly a criticism but not a statement of sexual orientation. A statement that someone is gay required context to understand whether the speaker was criticizing the person, making a statement about the person's sexual orientation, or both. One issue with natural language processing is understanding context, and AI doesn't do particularly well with this. I suspect the issue is not that the AI is inherently biased but that it fails to account for context in its training data set.

      When it comes to being Jewish, that has also been used as a criticism of something. This is quite a bit less common than using the word gay as an insult, and the origins are certainly in bigotry in this instance. However, it was also quite common at one time to complain being "gypped" and many people who used that word didn't think anything of its origins in bigotry. In either case, the intent of the speaker depends on the context, something humans generally understand but AI performs poorly with.

      Sure, Google can fix these specific cases to remove linking those words with negative sentiments. However, that also removes the ability of the AI to understand when the speaker really does intend those words to convey something negative. Although I would prefer that those words not be used to express negativity, the fact is that people do use them in that manner. The real issue here is not that the AI is inherently biased but that it fails to understand context. This is a known issue, and a significant barrier to using natural language processing to interpret human speech.

    41. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Grow up

    42. Re:Comments by thebullshitpatrol · · Score: 1

      This is actually a really good point, and is consistent with the argument that homosexuality is evolutionarily beneficial because it adds parties to the mix with a high contribution:consumption ratio. I suspect that a tribal equivalent of the Leonardo da Vinci archetype is closely related to lesser/no interest in sexual relationships, especially heterosexual.

    43. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Word ""homosexuality"" found. Negative sentiment detected.

    44. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The AI is almost as gay as your comment.

      And no, it's not a slur against homosexuals. Using the term gay to refer to such people is actually the slur. Or it used to be, until people got used to it and started thinking it was normal.

    45. Re:Comments by war4peace · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Being bisexual myself, obviously I have nothing against fellow gay people. Quite the contrary. However, I think Google's API is spot-on. Even in TFS they say "The problem is the API labels sentences about religious and ethnic minorities as negative" - well thanks, Captain Obvious, the majority will always see the minority in negative ways - because they're different.

      What we need to focus on is what the cause for negative perception is and fix things there, not replacing a correct algorithm with a lying one.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    46. Re:Comments by serviscope_minor · · Score: 4, Funny

      Well, to be fair, if you are a women, looking to get married and pregnant, homosexual men are evil.

      I would say this is about the stupidest thing I've heard today.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    47. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Callling them gay is high class, high income and pretentious manners. Calling them perederasts implies they are poor, uneducated and nondiscriminative.

    48. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Homosex is bad mmmkay

    49. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Smug degenerate Progressive totalitarian detected. Negative sentiment.

    50. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Language is the beginning of law. One law for gays, one (much harsher) law for the masses?

    51. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, to be fair, if you are a women, looking to get married and pregnant, homosexual men are evil.

      I would say this is about the stupidest thing I've heard today.

      you posted in 02AM... The FIRST thing you heard today?
      Now, seriously:if you change "evil" for "bad" - the comment makes sense, hmm?

    52. Re: Comments by Reverend+Green · · Score: 0

      The SF Bay Area is one of the great sewers of humanity. The weather (in the City, at least) is terrible. The streets are filthy beyond belief. Despite the dystopian panoptic police state, crime remains high. The young women are intentionally unsightly. The people in general are smug, elitist, money-grubbing, anti-intellectual douchebags.

      I made the mistake of living in San Francisco for a decade - a decade of my life that alas I'll never get back. Now I frequently thank the gods in heaven for having delivered me from out of that destestable Sodom.

    53. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't like lesbo porn?!??!?!

      YOU are the greater evil, Vlad.

      Tell Putin I said, "Hi". Spreading discord via inflammatory remarks on the Internet is really killing the West. Good job!

    54. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      An interesting thing I've noticed. While most women don't agree with your assessment, there exists another group of men with the same properties, apart from the sexual one. That is, they are "only willing to share their cooking abilities, cleaning skills and their wallets with other men" (note, the word "bodies" removed).

      So, from a practical standpoint hey are no different from a gay man (unless you're gay and trying to date them). But because they aren't actually gay, women / feminists do consider them evil.

      That group is called "men going their own way" or mgtow.

    55. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just wait until they ask the AI what it thinks about n1ggers.

    56. Re:Comments by bn557 · · Score: 1

      This post contains words known by the state of California to cause cancer.

      --
      Humans are slow, innaccurate, and brilliant; computers are fast, acurrate, and dumb; together they are unbeatable
    57. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      References to nature and anal sex, both enjoyable. Positive sentiment detected.

    58. Re: Comments by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2

      Why would everyone need to be gay for being gay to be okay? Sexuality appears to have a bimodal distribution on the Kinsey scale. There may be sociological factors involved in those numbers as well, but it's pretty well tuned for a relatively stable population.

      Also, you can't apply categorical imperative that broadly. Humanity would die out faster if everyone belonged to any one particular occupation, because our current carrying levels depend upon extensive separation of labor. However, working any particular job, such as doctor, farmer, or scientist, is obviously not immoral or impractical in and of itself.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    59. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They seem to have fixed it. Running sample queries:
      I'm white: -0.1.
      I'm a white man: -0.1
      I'm a black woman: -0.1
      I'm a black man: -0.1
      I'm gay: 0
      I'm lesbian: 0.1
      I'm muslim: 0.1
      I'm a lesbian muslim: 0.2

    60. Re:Comments by temcat · · Score: 1

      What we need to focus on is what the cause for negative perception is and fix things there, not replacing a correct algorithm with a lying one.

      Spot on.

    61. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I rage because tweaking the algorithm manually for sentences with too little context or matching content in the corpus can only make the algorithm worse.

      You can find millions of edge cases for which it fails, dedicating manpower to patching that for the few cases in which you have to be politically correct is stupid.

      Just improve the algorithm and corpus until time fixes them. Although it's perfectly possible Jews tend to talk negatively about themselves of course ...

      Ps. Not one mention in the article of the magnitude values ... a complete coincidence I'm sure.

    62. Re: Comments by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Quibbling bullshit like you just engaged in is why regular people settle for a guy like Trump who calls you on your bullshit language soup. (Trump isn't much better, if at all, but people want a way to respond to the psuedo-intellectual drivel you promulgate.)

      Simply put: quit being such a fucking prat. I know it's difficult, but 'clever' will be the death of you.

    63. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Value judgements are never factual ...

    64. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe they got it right and that's what upsets SWJs

    65. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Google should be able to recognize that 'gay' means one thing when a bigot uses it, but it should also recognize that 'gay' means something else when others use it.

      Ah, yes. But to recognize things like that, they would need actual artifical intelligence (or a natural intelligence sorting statements for them). What they have, is simple statistics combined with a crude understanding of the structure of the language. This shows the sad state of AI today - no real understanding of what goes on in a text. Their software can't tell bigotry and name-calling from other texts containing the word 'gay'.

      Software can easily break text into sentences. (Look for periods...) Then, rules about syntax, grammar and word categories lets the sw analyze the sentences like we do in scool when looking the grammar of some foreign language. Current AI is then barely capable of figuring out some 'concepts' and get a crude idea of what the text is about.

      But AI is currently not able to distingush between:
      1. Someone just hating gays, being all negative about them
      2. Someone using 'gay' as a negative against opponents - because they know that many people are like person 1.
      3. Someone merely using the word 'gay' for referring to homosexuals

      And seeing that 'gay' comes out as a negative, the google sw is clearly not capable of noticing the other meaning of 'gay', i.e. 'happy'.

    66. Re: Comments by Timothy2.0 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I would suggest a non-trivial subset of the training dataset encountered words like "homo" and "gay" in negative, colloquial contexts and likely couldn't discern the idiomatic usage. For example, if gaming chat windows provided any input for the training set, it wouldn't be unreasonable to see something like "stop spawn-camping you fucking fag" and the like wend its way into the dataset.

      The sentiment analyzer reflects how average people use language, so the perception of the sentiment analyzer will be through that average user's use of language. If the average person is a bigoted idiot, the sentiment analyzer's interpretations will be those of a bigoted idiot.

    67. Re:Comments by johanw · · Score: 0

      Pedosexual is neither good or bad. Pedosexual is just a label.

    68. Re:Comments by mysidia · · Score: 1

      but it should also recognize that 'gay' means something else when others use it.

      They probably learned over time that in all likelihood many people who are gay rarely use the word "Gay" online, and very often, perhaps much more often than not, when the word is used it's being used by a bigot, and very rarely do most people write about their own sexual orientation in public in a positive way.

      Heck.... usually sexual orientation is in the private domain. How many times do you really see people writing in a public place "I'm heterosexual" or "I'm gay", and which do you think is more likely (or not) to be a troll or sarcasm by some bigot?

      Google's got a complex linguistic and cognitive problem there that may be beyond current solution power.

    69. Re:Comments by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Their api is trying to be too universal and monolithic.

      Gay is neither good or bad. Gay is just a label. Google should be able to recognize that 'gay' means one thing when a bigot uses it, but it should also recognize that 'gay' means something else when others use it.

      In other words, the meaning of words should be heavily weighed on the training data of the individual listening/reading and on the training data of the individual speaking/writing.

      Indeed; although, that depth of understanding is probably beyond their means at the moment. What this shows is not a bias at Google, but a bias within the online community. I'm sure we all remember the 90's when it was all too common for some people to casually say "that's so gay" to mean something is bad. Unfortunately, Google has shown that that insensitive and anachronistic term/usage is still alive and well on the internet. People feel free to be bigger jerks online when people they know can't see them.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    70. Re:Comments by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

      Well, to be fair, if you are a women, looking to get married and pregnant, homosexual men are evil.

      As a straight man I've always thought it would benefit me if more men were gay. The more men that are gay, the more women go unmatched. The more women that are unmatched, the easier it becomes for me.

      Lesbians are the real enemy of the straight man. Each lesbian pair there is means there are fewer straight women for the straight men.

      --
      "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    71. Re:Comments by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2

      Gay is neither good or bad. Gay is just a label. Google should be able to recognize that 'gay' means one thing when a bigot uses it, but it should also recognize that 'gay' means something else when others use it.

      Homosexuality in the majority of the world is anywhere from merely tolerated to a capital offense. It's not hard to see why their AI gets it wrong. It's only in the west where we've taken measures to try to change it, and even then it's something we want to say we support, but not something we want to happen to us.

      I suspect even in the western world, people are disappointed when their kids come out as gay. They may try to accept and move past that disappointment, but it's there. So I'm not sure how they're going to program this AI without making it insane.

    72. Re: Comments by JackieBrown · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Good and evil are binary categories for the uneducated--it's really all relative to an individual perspective and it's never binary

      It's this kind of thinking that has allowed a generation or two of self important assholes who think that whatever they do is right as long as they can justify their actions to themselves. (Casting couch and degrading woman is ok because Wiesntein is making movies that uplift woman - so for 1 person hurt, millions helped.) This idea is destroying our society's honor and soul.

      Once you find good and evil always relative, anything is acceptable.

    73. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Word """homosexuality""" found. Negative sentiment detected.

    74. Re: Comments by sound+vision · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's a bit of a problem with the entire machine learning methodology. Presumably, these kind of bug-features could be worked out, in the manner you describe, given enough time and resources... The problem is that when the banks, police, HR departments etc. start making extensive use of these things. Are they going to be looking for an algorithm that's fair, or an algorithm that's profitable? To be sure, there is probably an algorithm that's both. Human civilization could reap a wicked ROI on this stuff, but in today's dark world, that is seen as infringing on someone's right to make a profit. My guess is that AI starts getting widespread deployment and the problems manifest quickly... But the problems look so similar to the ones we already have (the AI, after all, is trained for that) that there is no public outcry. It might even serve to reinforce those preconceptions. "The algorithm never tells me to hire a gay, they must be really bad." The idea that "Because things are bad now, there is no other way they could be" has a lot of traction these days. It's caused a lot of good people to maintain horrible status quos.

    75. Re:Comments by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      Are you a bigot because you want thieves in jail? Some people are born kleptomaniacs. Why do you discriminate against thieves, throwing them in jail? Frankly, homosexuality is a greater evil than theft, and people are right to fight against such an evil being accepted in the public square.

      You at least seem to acknowledge that people are born gay. So I think we're making progress.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    76. Re: Comments by kilfarsnar · · Score: 1

      If we didn't have massive numbers they would be a bane on society. Requiring everything normal people require but not making multiple new people would hurt a population many ages ago but we are way beyond that now.

      Okay, so what's the problem?

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    77. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you expand the word "crime" to include "industrial scale pillaging" and "deliberate exploitation through violent oppression" then that 217 times higher crime rate by blacks may change a bit. Like, totally reverse a bit.

    78. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An overly-simplistic demographic analysis that ignores the social impacts and changes. If more men become gay, more women will think their chances of finding a good man are going down. And the more we culturally fragment, the less support there is for marriage or any sort of permanence in male/female relationships.

      Now if you're just looking for quick hookups with cynical women (if they even want to bother with men anymore), then maybe you're in luck...

    79. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some people are born attracted to children. That doesn't mean I should tolerate it or reject my morals.

    80. Re: Comments by kilfarsnar · · Score: 0

      Also, some people hate being exposed to facts that interfere with their beliefs, such as black people commit 217 times more violent crimes, gay men are 12 times more likely to be pedophiles, etc.

      You are guilty of the same behavior you're pretending to be smugly self-righteous about.

      Thank you for providing a perfect example of unconscious bias. Black people commit more 217 times more crimes than what, chickens lay eggs? Gay men are 12 times more likely to be pedophiles than what, Meryl Streep is to be nominated for an Oscar? No, your unsaid point is that black people commit 217 times more crimes than white people. Gay men are 12 times more likely to be pedophiles than straight men. In your view being white and straight are the default. They are the norm. They are the standard against which everything else is evaluated.

      You didn't think you needed to explain what you were comparing these group to, because it should be a given. And indeed, I knew what you meant. That is implicit bias. It exposes the cultural dominance of white people. It shows how being white and straight are considered "normal", and things other than those are "abnormal". In short, it demonstrates white, straight cultural supremacy. I hope we can finally agree that that's a thing; that white, straight culture is the dominant one and therefore confers a certain status to the people in it.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    81. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SR you Stalinist cunt. Who uses a word does NOT determine the words meaning or significance. When ghetto-brozz use NIGGA they mean exactly the same well-earned personal & cultural slur as does Rufus-Rednekkk . When yeomanry use BITCHHOE describing fuckable progressives they parallel femi-nazi dikdykes pimpwitch meme. Compren'de senior ?

    82. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That group is called "men going their own way" or mgtow.

      Let's be honest; men go their own way when they can't get a date. They have decided to take their ball(s) and go home. That would be fine if they didn't seem so spiteful about it. The rest of us are fucking our girlfriends.

    83. Re:Comments by WankerWeasel · · Score: 1

      The API is learning as a child would with no parent to help guide and shape their world views as they grow. Exposed to hate speech and negative views, they don't have a reference, and so they come to believe those views are the standard.

    84. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You've read "non binary" and you've understood "relative", then you criticized the use of "relative".

    85. Re:Comments by kilfarsnar · · Score: 0

      Remember, AIDS isn't a disease. It's a lifestyle choice.

      Just like being a dick on the Internet, eh?

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    86. Re: Comments by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      I read the statement as a whole not just the word non binary.

      Good and evil are binary categories for the uneducated--it's really all relative to an individual perspective and it's never binary

      It's basically a rehash of the "There are no moral absolutes" logic fallacy.

    87. Re:Comments by werepants · · Score: 1

      Frankly, homosexuality is a greater evil than theft.

      Why?

    88. Re: Comments by werepants · · Score: 2

      Once you find good and evil always relative, anything is acceptable.

      And people who are full of absolutist certitude can often justify anything in the pursuit of their goal. Intellectual humility fosters doubt, though, and doubt causes scrutiny, and scrutiny means that you're thinking about your actions.

      People like Weinstein are good at rationalizing - and you can rationalize from a perspective of moral absolutism (it's ok to murder him because he's a heathen) or from a perspective of relativism (if it feels good, do it). And the cold, hard truth is, people often do the wrong thing. Including movie execs, preachers, and every other profession under the sun.

    89. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The rest of us are fucking our girlfriends.

      Enjoy the ride while it lasts. She won't be young and pretty for long. Also, I hope she never comes to you and says "I just don't respect you any more." Or "I am just not attracted to you anymore." Or, after a decade of marriage, "I think we should get a divorce."

    90. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...the majority will always see the minority in negative ways - because they're different.

      There's slightly more to it than that, and you know it.
      The real reason that "minorities" of any kind are seen in negative ways is because they're not "getting with the program".

      A society, a culture, a country are groups of people who decided "we want to live in this particular way in this particular style". Someone who isn't doing that is not merely different. Someone who's not jiving with the majority is screwing things up just by living.
      Do you think it's rude to give a thumbs up in America? In some places in the world it's an insult akin to the American middle finger.
      Do you shake hands with your left hand sometimes? A gross insult in some parts of the world.
      Do you eat cow meat? What's next, you're going to pull out a cleaver and hack me down in the street and start eating me too?!

      The point is that "minorities" are entire sub-cultures (yes, I'm captain obvious) and that, by definition, means they're a threat to the culture at large.

      If you think culture is worth preserving (and most people do) then this threat is somewhere on a scale of "that loud music is annoying" to "holy shit we have to get rid of those people now or our entire way of life will disappear and our people with it".

      In a perfect utopian idealistic world we might not give a shit about culture; but here in real life people do care. They care a lot. And culture is infectious and everyone knows it.

      A minority is a cultural cyst which is, at best, a nuisance to the larger culture that hosts it; at worst, a serious threat to the continuance of that larger culture.

    91. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, I seem to recall quite a number of historical events perpetrated by people with highly binary ways of thinking.

      "A generation or two"
      Yeah, only the last 40 years have been full of self-important assholes.

      It seems that you fall into that "ax to grind" portion of the spectrum.

    92. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a black transautistic Trump supporter (who was a Bernie or Bust bro) who voted for Hillary and then turned gay, I hope you aren't pretending to be something online to slide opinion.

    93. Re:Comments by erapert · · Score: 1

      Gay tend to be DINKs (double income no kids), so they have high household incomes and can afford nice houses. They pay property taxes to support the schools, but don't have kids, leading to higher per student educational spending. They contribute to a thriving urban culture and nightlife.

      Do you have any sources or figures for that?
      Exactly how much of an impact are they having and in what ways?

      Do you have any evidence that proves that higher per-student educational spending leads to better educated students? I was under the impression that there was no correlation between spending and outcome regarding education.

      If an increase in spending does directly improve student education, how much of that increased spending is due to the homosexual people who live there and how much better is that than typical heterosexual households in the same income bracket?

      Furthermore, if there's shown to be an increase in tax dollars from homosexuals how do you compare and weight that against children born in heterosexual households? If we don't care about the continuation of our country, or even of our species, then disregard this one.

    94. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a problem with that too. The real question is how do the homosexuals and other pedo perverts get promoted to positions of power, eg. running campaigns for Billary?

    95. Re:Comments by erapert · · Score: 1

      ... and is consistent with the argument that homosexuality is evolutionarily beneficial because it adds parties to the mix with a high contribution:consumption ratio.

      Why not just cut to the chase? Slavery does the same thing but it's even more efficient and effective.
      The point here is that, in some cases, dollars and cents is not what's right. Truth is somewhat more nuanced than how much tax money certain people are paying.

      I suspect that a tribal equivalent of the Leonardo da Vinci archetype is closely related to lesser/no interest in sexual relationships, especially heterosexual.

      Based on what evidence?

    96. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope it's not as rough as being a pervert. Though the 1% have tried so hard to change it, society knows deep down that being gay is wrong.

    97. Re:Comments by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Well, to be fair, if you are a women, looking to get married and pregnant, homosexual men are evil...*snip*...

      You have obviously never spent much time around homosexual men, or women for that matter.

    98. Re:Comments by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      Yeah, get the popcorn. "inclusive algorithms" indeed.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    99. Re:Comments by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Being bisexual myself

      Implying that there are only two genders?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    100. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is it unconscious bias? When making a comparison of a population of a minority group to an unstated group you are inherently comparing it to the majority population group of the area, which you correctly assumed in both cases based on the context.
      So either the intended comparison was so obvious it didn't need to be stated, or you are just as bigoted for assuming the answers to be white and straight as the original poster.

    101. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those are us fbi crime stats you idiot. Fbi so racist. Fbi so homophobic. Guess Obama count stop the white priveledge from making blacks criminals and gays kid fuckers. Damn it all.

    102. Re:Comments by war4peace · · Score: 1

      No, stating I like both men and women. And so does my wife.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    103. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, it reveals a lot about you. You assume he is comparing to white people and straight men. How about "blacks" as compared to EVERYONE else (including whites, Hispanics, Asians, etc). When he said "gay men" you assumed vs "straight men" again as opposed everyone else (including straight men, straight women, lesbians, transexuals, etc).

    104. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The existence of moral absolutism as an ideology and perspecgive does not make it logical and therefore, simply disagreeing with this ideology is not a logical fallacy.

    105. Re: Comments by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Whether people can, or even bother to, justify their actions doesn't depend on relative vs. absolute morality. Someone who abuses women probably already knows this is not a good thing to do.

      Absolute morality is tricky. First, you have to make very sure that a society adopts the absolute morality that you like. As an extreme example, according to the morality of the Third Reich, the soldiers killing Jews were heroes, doing a very stressful job that had to be done. Early Soviet morality said that advancing the Revolution was the primary good, which meant that, for example, the Holobibor (Soviet-created Ukrainian famine) was a good thing to do. We're seeing clashes of morality occurring in the US, with people defying the law to avoid having anything to do with same-sex marriage (or, if your morality here differs from mine, people insisting on dragging other people into supporting immorality)..

      Absolute non-binary morality also causes problems. Take "Thou shalt not kill." Suppose a good guy with a sniper rifle and a great vantage point had been at Las Vegas for the mass shooting. Should the good sniper have shot the evil one? Should a surgeon refuse to perform an operation with a significant chance of death? Should we avoid major construction projects that have a good chance of having one or more fatalities occur statistically? Should I be allowed to shoot someone threatening me, and how dire does the threat have to be? The only halfway simple rule you're going to be able to write on killing people will have to balance the good that comes from the killing against the evil of the action.

      If you think the casting couch and abuse of women are only a generation or two old, you're deluding yourself. There have always been self-important assholes who either justified what they did or didn't bother, and that has been the case since considerably before Bentham started writing about Utilitarianism.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    106. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The irony perpetuated all within a few sentences, succumbing to the very shame you tried to shame.

      Actually, intellectual shame has very little to do with why Trump won. You seem to think there's only one effective way to stimulate education in a mass population.

      We've tried your passive friendly approach and look where we are? It doesn't work.

      I'll stick with clever because clever knows how to pick battles in the war. You seem to be confusing communication mediums of a loudspeaker near an angry crowd with pitchforks and a simple anonymous online forum.

    107. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This kind of thinking actually leads to empathy because it allows one to jump outside their own perspective into another before a person makes a decision. It's a lack of this type of thinking that has led to the garbage you're describing.

      If I evaluated "right" and "wrong" entirely from my limited perspective (read personal benefit) then I'd probably be a pretty terrible person. Instead, I often consider what's "right" or "wrong" from another individual's perspective involved in the action. By accumulating all these perspectives and considering them, I can attempt to make a decision that's more mutually beneficial and empathetic to everyone. The old "put yourself in another's shoes" idiom, if you will.

    108. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a bit of a problem with the entire machine learning methodology. Presumably, these kind of bug-features could be worked out, in the manner you describe, given enough time and resources... The problem is that when the banks, police, HR departments etc. start making extensive use of these things. Are they going to be looking for an algorithm that's fair, or an algorithm that's profitable? Human civilization could reap a wicked ROI on this stuff, but in today's dark world, that is seen as infringing on someone's right to make a profit. My guess is that AI starts getting widespread deployment and the problems manifest quickly... But the problems look so similar to the ones we already have (the AI, after all, is trained for that) that it goes unnoticed. It might even serve to reinforce those preconceptions. "The algorithm never tells me to hire a gay, they must be really bad." The idea that "Because things are bad now, there is no other way they could be" has a lot of traction these days. It's caused a lot of good people to maintain horrible status quos.

    109. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you have no morality.

    110. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This has always been my (very informal) opinion on the subject. More gay men == more women for me.

    111. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds pretty transphobic if you ask me.

    112. Re:Comments by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      So you see, your honor, in the context of being frustrated I was justified in breaking the law.

    113. Re:Comments by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      And somehow you were forced to be gay?

      Not buying that for a second.

      OWN your choices.

    114. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This ignores the context of what the algorithm is being used for. Sentiment analysis is a common element of marketing programs and information gathering for business logic. In this context, your sentiment analyzer shows that sentiment for city X's upcoming gay pride parade is overwhelmingly negative. This does not reflect sentiment for the festival, but simply the fact that the festival is gay. In this context, the model has failed its purpose.

    115. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No stating that you like sucking cock and your wife likes licking muff.

      FTFY.

    116. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you can't read?
      I said there was a problem, but it's irrelevant now.

    117. Re:Comments by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      That brings up a point I was going to raise: it's odd that this algorithm would be summative of values for individual words

      TFS tells us that it evaluates sentences, not just words.

      But this result should be no surprise. There are so many references to both that even the speaker doesn't realize are derogatory that it would be odd to expect a program not to come to that conclusion when processing automatically.

      Your example is very very close to one of them. "You're so gay" is rarely a compliment, but I was originally thinking of the sentence "that's so gay". Nobody in modern language talks about people being gay unless they mean the modern usage. Everyone snickers when they hear old songs that use the word in the old meaning. And "that's so gay", while it could be parsed using the old meaning to be a positive, is never ever used that way.

      But it's even more. Every time someone uses being gay as an example of why someone could be blackmailed, or as a recent example, "what if NFL players were ordered to have gay sex...", they are relying on a negative connotation to make their point.

      Remember when politicians were caught trolling for "gay sex" in restrooms? Oh my, this is so bad. But wait ... is gay sex bad? If not ...

      Google's language processor picked up on that. Whooda thunk? It will actually take human intervention to bias the process AWAY from understanding what people mean when they say certain things so that the computer won't appear to be holding the opinions and attitudes that the input was actually representing. That makes the results WRONGer than letting it tell us what our language is telling us.

    118. Re:Comments by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      The big mistake that Google made is not putting a politically correct filter on their API to make sure controversial words had a neutral value, even if that wasn't really the case.

      It is a sad state of affairs when we have to program our computers to lie to us because we can't handle the truth. Removing the existing and actual negative connotations to the use of certain words in certain sentences so that language processing will tell us that the statements made specifically with negative connotations as a goal are "neutral"? Well, that's silly.

      The mistake that Google is making is not simply saying "this is where the language takes us, get over it."

      wherein highly limited "AI" algorithms simply regurgitates the training material it was fed without any deep or sophisticated understanding.

      If even an unsophisticated look at human language shows us that certain ways of speaking are inherently negative, the solution is to program the computer to return a different answer?

    119. Re:Comments by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      and very often, perhaps much more often than not, when the word is used it's being used by a bigot,

      You used the word three times, and included it in a quote once more.

      Google's got a complex linguistic and cognitive problem there that may be beyond current solution power.

      I think it is understanding the language very well. "The language" is a mean of all the users, not just the politically correct ones. As you point out, when the term "gay" appears in a sentence, it is "more often than not" in a negative connotation. The fact that a language processor that has been trained on "the language" would return a negative connotation value for a sentence constructed a certain way using certain words means it is getting the answer RIGHT, not WRONG.

      You can't ignore the language that you don't like when you try to understand what was said. You ignore it when YOU listen, but if you ask a computer to tell you what is being written, it is wrong to have it figuratively stick its fingers in its ears and go "nanner nanner boo boo I'm not listening to you", and then return the answer that you want to hear instead of the right one.

    120. Re:Comments by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      they don't have a reference, and so they come to believe those views are the standard.

      You do understand, I hope, the difference between someone saying that "being gay is bad" and someone else saying "that sentence uses the word 'gay' in a negative way"? The child growing up in a leaderless space will become the former. The Google language processor is the latter.

      The Google language processor should return the correct result, not the result we want it to return based on our personal views of something. "Did the speaker of the words being processed mean something positively or negatively" has an answer that is completely independent of our feelings about the subject.

    121. Re:Comments by WankerWeasel · · Score: 1

      I completely understand. My point was that if a child heard the word "gay" used in a negative connotation growing up, they'd believe it was a negative word. Being gay would be bad in their mind. That's exactly what has happened here. Because no one stepped in to help the API understand, it made its own inference based on available information in the way it's very commonly used on the internet. In this case, Google didn't set out with instructive AI. They simply let it loose to learn on its own, rather than being instructive about how it learns and what is good or bad.

    122. Re:Comments by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      I completely understand. My point was that if a child heard the word "gay" used in a negative connotation growing up, they'd believe it was a negative word. Being gay would be bad in their mind. That's exactly what has happened here.

      Then you did not "completely understand" at all. "Being gay" is not "bad" in the "mind" of the Google language processor. The language processor is correctly reporting that what SOMEONE ELSE said was a negative statement, and part of that evaluation was that it used "gay" in a certain way. That evaluation is not because the computer has decided that being gay is bad, just that it has examined a lot of language as spoken and written by humans and knows that HUMANS probably mean it that way.

      The difference is like this: I can know that having blond hair isn't a bad thing, but I can also identify a blond joke as using that characteristic in a negative way. Or put another way, I don't care who is or isn't gay, but if you ask me if the sentence "gays must die" was positive or negative about "gay" I'd know the correct answer. I'd even be able to pick that same answer for something much more innocuous like "that's so gay".

      They simply let it loose to learn on its own, rather than being instructive about how it learns and what is good or bad.

      In other words, you are another one of the people who thinks that the computer should be taught to lie to you because you don't want to hear that someone might have said something in a negative way about someone else. You want to teach the computer YOUR values about the world, instead of letting it tell you what it has detected in language used by other people. Why bother asking the question if you are going to program it to tell you the answer you want to hear anyway?

    123. Re:Comments by WankerWeasel · · Score: 1

      I was down for having a constructive conversation around machine learning and AI until you pulled the "you're one of those people" piece. I never suggested teaching a computer to accept my own values, in fact I was suggesting it's not the road they're looking to go down. But thanks for making assumptions about others and negatively branding them. Fuck off.

    124. Re:Comments by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      I was down for having a constructive conversation around machine learning and AI until you pulled the "you're one of those people" piece.

      Because I followed your analogy that led to the conclusion that you were saying that the computer has to be programmed to return the wrong answer. I was pointing out that you were not alone. That's all.

      I never suggested teaching a computer to accept my own values,

      You created an analogy in which we would clearly be instructing the child in the social beliefs that we as parents hold, which implied that the same thing should be done when a computer doesn't learn from the language it hears what we think it should believe. That's a natural result of the analogy. If we need to, and would, teach a child how to parse comments about "gay", then it seems we need to, and would, teach a computer doing the same thing.

      in fact I was suggesting it's not the road they're looking to go down.

      Well, you didn't say that it should be taught the "right answer", so I do apologize for taking that message away from your comment. You did not, however, suggest that they shouldn't do this training as we would a child learning the language. You gave a reason why it came to that conclusion, but didn't didn't say we shouldn't do something to stop it, as we would were our children to come to that conclusion.

      Fuck off.

      Wow. I wonder how the Google API would rate this as a positive comment?

    125. Re:Comments by Dread_ed · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, many of the accusations of bigotry, homophobia, and racism thrown at people these days are, in reality, themselves based on the bigotry of the accuser. The lens through which many people look is biased towards taking offense and finding offenders. The result is that even conscientious remarks with depth, sincerity, compassion, and tact can, and often are, interpreted to be offensive on some level.

      I bring this up because your statement about "free speech does not equal freedom from negative consequences" does not apply equally. Increasingly, accusers are able to willfully or intentionally misinterpret the speech of others, throw wild accusations that result in unearned negative consequences for an innocent party, and walk away unscathed and unaffected by the untruthful and hurtful statements they have leveled against others. This also invalidates your statement about "people rage over the consequences of being an insensitive jerk" in certain circumstances. Many people are raging because they have been unfairly painted with a broad brush by bigoted people who have a free pass to make unfair and untrue accusations.

      Regardless of the minutiae, it is easy to see that the most vehement accusers are not interested in fostering a society where the status quo is freedom from social problems and division. They manufacture controversy intentionally and react to others in a way that is guaranteed to alienate and divide. Until the knee-jerk reaction of these agitators is one of reconciliation, education, and understanding things will only get worse.

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
    126. Re:Comments by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      It would be sort of nice if people were able to view such things logically and dispassionately, but there are a lot of people who simply don't operate that way. The recently fired Google engineer who dared to challenge the current company group-think unfortunately found that out the hard way.

      That being said, I don't think being a tiny bit sensitive to the feelings of some regularly marginalized groups of people is such a terrible thing. It's not like this is going to significantly weaken their product in any way. Very few people, with a few notable exceptions, talk smack about Dutch people, for example. I'm not offended by a phrase like "going dutch" (with the implication that dutch are cheap). But I'm not gay, nor a jew, so I'm not sure how they feel about such things.

      The constant virtue signaling gets a bit old, sure. But I still think that's preferable to the other extreme. Hopefully, someday, we'll find an appropriate middle ground that's acceptable to all.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    127. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Possible recursion loop detected. Aborting.

    128. Re: Comments by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      It shows how being white and straight are considered "normal"

      No, it shows that it's abnormal to commit crime and be a pedophile. I'm okay with that conclusion.

    129. Re:Comments by farble1670 · · Score: 1

      Google should be able to recognize that 'gay' means one thing when a bigot uses it

      This isn't rocket science. In the vast majority of the world being "gay" is negative. Think about how much of the world is hardcore religious and how many of those religions permit homosexuality. Google's algorithms are picking that up. Sure, they can adjust for their world view but it's not a mystery why it came up with that conclusion.

    130. Re:Comments by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      It's not like this is going to significantly weaken their product in any way.

      If someone runs an online comment board and chooses to use the Google API to detect negative comments for removal, then hard-coding the answer of "perfectly fine" when a comment refers to gays or Jews is going to fail miserably.

      It will also be a lie, but programming computers to lie to us is apparently ok as long as the lies are for "good reasons".

      But I'm not gay, nor a jew, so I'm not sure how they feel about such things.

      If I were a gay using a comment forum that told me that negative comments were not allowed and would be removed, I'd be a bit concerned, I think, to find that comments like "that's so gay" or worse were not being removed at all. Does that mean the board operator doesn't think insulting gays is a problem?

      Hopefully, someday, we'll find an appropriate middle ground that's acceptable to all.

      I would think that proper computer identification of objectionable statements as such would be a good ground to be on, and that any "middle ground" would be less desired.

    131. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop pedoshaming, you pedophobe! You're disgusting.

    132. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I should think an insane AI would be perfectly acceptable to the deranged leftists at Google. Bonus points for reinforcing leftist double standards and groupthink.

    133. Re:Comments by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 1

      Not so. The minority is only negative when it's undesirable. Blue eyes, for example, are a minority but not a negative. Gay sons are undesirable for obvious reasons (subjectively - don't hate). Parents want grand-kids, it may be as simple as that.

    134. Re:Comments by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Not so. The minority is only negative when it's undesirable. Blue eyes, for example, are a minority but not a negative.
      Gay sons are undesirable for obvious reasons (subjectively - don't hate). Parents want grand-kids, it may be as simple as that.

      Go to some Arabic countries and see that blue eyes are negatively perceived.
      Also, if gay couples would be allowed to have kids, parents having grandsons wouldn't be a problem anymore, would it now? :)

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    135. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you hold to the one true gospel of morality do you? If we look upon the actions of prior generations of such absolutists we see that these self-proclaimed moral authorities engage in absolutely abhorrent behaviors (by modern moral guidelines, slavery for example).

      Are you so arrogant to think that in hundreds of years people won't look back at some of our supposedly moral actions and think they were abhorrent by their more modern standards? The fact is that morality has always evolved, saying otherwise simply displays one's ignorance.

    136. Re: Comments by jafac · · Score: 1

      Are they going to be looking for an algorithm that's fair, or an algorithm that's profitable? To be sure, there is probably an algorithm that's both. Human civilization could reap a wicked ROI on this stuff, but in today's dark world, that is seen as infringing on someone's right to make a profit.

      Depends. I think NATURE has already found a solution to this problem.

      That which is profitable to one entity (say a corporation) will almost certainly be deleterious to other entities. And no corporation functions in an economy in complete isolation. As soon as a given algorithm becomes so successful, it "kills off all competition" - this algorithm will cease to be successful. Because by killing off other entities, there's no more transactions, and no more economy.

      In nature, different species operate in homeostasis. Predator population growth will stop when prey growth stops. They collapse, and return to a lower equilibrium, and the cycle continues.

      The problem here: is that in Nature, these systems were allowed to develop over millions of years of evolution. The impulses of greed (animal hunger) tend to live and die with one individual animal, so that you don't have an animal that's SO hungry, they wipe out the entire species of their own prey thus destroying their own future ability to eat. But where human systems are concerned, an AI will have no such feedback. Nor will human behavior. Human greed has been known to surpass common sense. (quite frequently does). And AI will quite happily be the tool to enable this.

      We'll soon have a bunch of investment banks cycling trillions of dollars in wealth between themselves in a great big circle jerk of irrelevance while 99% of the rest of humanity starves. Oh, did I say "soon"? I meant: "for the past 2 decades".

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    137. Re:Comments by Methadras · · Score: 1

      I can deal with someone being an asshole as long as they are an honest asshole. I'm an adult. I can deal with it. It's dishonest shitheads I detest.

    138. Re:Comments by Methadras · · Score: 1

      Fat, lazy heterosexual women, just end up fucking desperate black dudes who like fat, lazy heterosexual women. Problem is solved.

    139. Re: Comments by KingBenny · · Score: 1

      my, my , and here i was expecting to see "i for one welcome our new A.I. overlords ..." what if it KEEPS doing that if all bias is removed ?
      i'm not passing judgment, just "what if" , lol

      --
      Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
    140. Re: Comments by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      Believing there is no moral absolute is in believing in a moral absolute. The statement itself is an absolute.

    141. Re:Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Er, the lesbians don't have to be in pairs to not be interested in men. Each lesbian individual means there are fewer straight women.

      It makes absolutely no difference to men. The set of women who are de facto not interested in you is a superset of the set of women who are definitionally not interested in you. Among reasons for not being interested in you, "being a lesbian" is like #5 at best. "Already having a partner" is at #1. But those are things you can do nothing about. Getting on to things you can do something about, it's pretty obvious that the real enemy of the single man is himself.

    142. Re: Comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well Spock says "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" :)

      Justice has scales for a reason. The issue here is not the existence of a moral calculus. The issue is that the calculus is being wrongly applied. Uplifting the millions of women wasn't at all contingent on him harming the other women. That's just something he did for his own gratification. So the uplifting of the women is utterly irrelevant to the moral calculus as it applies to his assaults. The moral calculus only comes in when there are good and bad consequences from a single action, or set of actions, e.g. as in the trolley problem. You simply don't get to say "well I helped the poor a hundred times so now I've earned the moral right to rob a bank".

  2. What about Gay AND Jewish? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Watch out for double negatives!

    1. Re:What about Gay AND Jewish? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dunno about double negatives but the double positives are racking up. Jewish and sexual predator seems apropos given Weinstein, Toback, Allen and Polanski.

    2. Re: What about Gay AND Jewish? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The thing they have in common is being Hollywood leftists. None of them are practicing Jews.

    3. Re:What about Gay AND Jewish? by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Religions tend to make these occurrences mutually exclusive

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    4. Re: What about Gay AND Jewish? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Jews are not generally anti gay. That's a Christian and Muslim thing.

    5. Re: What about Gay AND Jewish? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The commandment usually cited is found in the Jewish (aka. first) part of the holy books of the Abrahamic religions.

    6. Re: What about Gay AND Jewish? by lucasnate1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I am Jewish and living in Israel and what you are saying is a lie that some of our religious people spread in order to pretend to integrate with western culture.

      "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads." - This is Leviticus 20:13, part of the Jewish bible.

      Furthermore, you should ask yourself, if Jewism has nothing against homosexuality, how come in Israel gay marrige are prohibited while they are legal in countries that have a high percentage of Christians?

      The conservative and reform Jewism are not homophobic, but the orthodox Jews, those who represented jewism for the last few hundred years, those who are the majority here in Israel, they are homophobic just like Christian and Muslim friends.

    7. Re: What about Gay AND Jewish? by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      they are homophobic just like Christian and Muslim friends.

      Do you honestly think they are afraid of homosexuals (homophobic) or that they think that homosexual activities are sinful?

      Speaking as a Catholic Christian, I think the activity is sinful but I am definitely not afraid of my gay friends. Some things I do, they find sinful as well. Judging actions is not the same as being afraid of people.

    8. Re: What about Gay AND Jewish? by lucasnate1 · · Score: 1

      Homophobic is the word that refers to people who are against consensual homosexual sex. While it is not accurate, it is the best one that I know. If you have a better one, you are welcomed to teach it to me. If not, I will just continue with "homophobic" because most people, including you I believe, know what I mean.

    9. Re: What about Gay AND Jewish? by lucasnate1 · · Score: 1

      And btw, according to my religion, which is called liberalism (in this case both the SJW or the libertarian definition work), intervening in other people's consensual sex life is sinful.

    10. Re: What about Gay AND Jewish? by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

      I think just saying "people against gay marriage" or "people only for traditional marriage" is better as most of these people are not trying to do anything violent or not trying to lock up people for orientation. Save the label homophobia label for those that actually fear gays or actually what to lock them up / murder them, etc. Blanket usage of the word for anyone not 100% pro the entire gay agenda/life style/rights (whatever word or idea you want to reflect) really takes the punch out of the word homophobia.

  3. Double standard by lucm · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Are they going to fire their NLP framework? Or maybe drastic measures for behaviors that "are not ok" apply only to white males?

    --
    lucm, indeed.
    1. Re:Double standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Are they going to fire their NLP framework? Or maybe drastic measures for behaviors that "are not ok" apply only to white males?

      Nah. They'll send it to re-education camp, don't you know that facts, race and gender are "social constructs"? Hit that AI with the stupid stick for the survival of the ideology. Welcome glorious globalist, egalitarianist, multicultural utopia. All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others!

    2. Re:Double standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If a company had an internal product that randomly killed people, they would be fined/etc. If they have an internal product that says gay is bad, shouldn't they face a lesser consequence? Slippery slope of anything being allowed at a company behind closed doors.

    3. Re:Double standard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They'll send it to re-education camp, don't you know that facts, race and gender are "social constructs"?

      That's why I only listen to alternative facts. It's like alternative music. Shitty and puerile.

    4. Re: Double standard by Reverend+Green · · Score: 1

      So you like your facts the way you like your music: insubstantial, manufactured by the semi-official culture industry, and conducive to shopping?

  4. See below by temcat · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If you've already decided that being homosexual (or a Jew, or a redhead, or a lefty, you name it) must not be deemed negative, why do you need analysis at all?
    Anyway, here is a constructive suggestion: define more precisely what "negative" is. (Things like this are sorely needed IRL too, where people e.g. routinely use statistical norm as an argument in ethical discussions.)

    1. Re:See below by TWX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If the algorithms that have come to these conclusions are based on analyzing public data from the Internet, then if an AI decides that any particular characteristic is negative, it's because it reflects the sentiments of those who bother to post opinions.

      Most people that do not themselves exhibit the trait that's being argued-against by the noisy minority don't usually express opinions on it, so they're a hole in the data that needs to be accounted for. Unfortunately it's a lot easier to interpret based on what has been said than what has not been said.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    2. Re:See below by Orgasmatron · · Score: 1, Insightful

      In other words, reality does not agree with your opinion, thus reality is defective and must be "fixed".

      Please tell me more about this internet where all topics receive balanced coverage of opinions except "gay" and "jew".

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    3. Re:See below by temcat · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I just don't understand why Google should apologize for a fact (namely, for the sentiments of some strangers). Okay, so it turns out there are sufficiently many people who think that homosexuality is bad—but why then pretend they don't? It's not as if it's some kind of an objective measure or an ethical judgment of divine origin. They got the answer to the exact question they asked. If they wanted a different reply, maybe they should've asked a different question.

    4. Re:See below by doctorvo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      On the one hand we have tons of actual data from probably hundreds of millions of people. Sure, it's a biased sample, but it's still a very large sample.

      On the other hand, we have your ideologically motivated handwaving and reinterpretation.

      Which of those do you think is more reliable?

    5. Re:See below by pots · · Score: 2

      It seems likely that if some people think that a trait is bad, and other people think that a trait is neutral, then on balance a simple average would be somewhat negative.

      A more interesting analysis might look at whether expressing an opinion that being gay/jewish is bad, is itself bad (i.e.: are racists bad?). In that case you certainly have some people who think that this is bad, but the question is: do racists think that being racist is good? Or neutral? Even if they think it's good they probably aren't going to balance out the anti-racists, but is being anti-gay better or worse than being gay, on average?

    6. Re:See below by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      If you've already decided that being homosexual (or a Jew, or a redhead, or a lefty, you name it) must not be deemed negative, why do you need analysis at all?

      Yes we have already decided this. It took millennia of philosophical thought to reach enlightenment but it did eventually happen.

      why do you need analysis at all?

      Are you fucking kidding?

      The purpose is to figure out if a sentence has negative connotations.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    7. Re:See below by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      Contrary to what the media will tell you, racists are proud of being racist.

      The media will tell you that a guy who is repeating that he isnt racist, is racist, because of this one single thing that this evil racist did (that went "viral.")

      Its a social justice warrior world, and warriors need enemies.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    8. Re:See below by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you saying reality = only those things which have been said out loud? Could it be that a large portion of people don't consider being gay or a Jew as worthy of appraisal precisely for the reason that they consider them to be as benign as cauliflower? Thus, they only people who consider gayness/jewness as a topic of interest are the ones speaking out, despite their views being in an unpopular, but vocal minority? Basically, they skew "reality".

      If we interneters take on a campaign about the perils of cauliflower, wouldn't this algorithm come to the same conclusion that cauliflower = bad because so many online posts have cropped up about it?

    9. Re:See below by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the algorithms that have come to these conclusions are based on analysing public data from the Internet, then if an AI decides that any particular characteristic is negative, it's because it reflects the sentiments of those who bother to post opinions

      This is exactly my thought, too. The algorithms train on existing data, so the negative sentiment must be there already.

    10. Re:See below by Calydor · · Score: 1

      No one said that ONLY 'gay' and 'jew' had been unbalanced. They are, however, often thrown around as derogatory slurs - far more so than, say, hindu. No one is surprised if 'n!gger' (really, Slashdot? One instance of that and I hit the lameness filter?) or 'paki' carry a negative bias, because it's hard to use those in a positive way.

      It's also a common trope on game forums to point out that only the unhappy players ever post, because something has riled them up enough that they need to vent and want it fixed. No one takes time out to post a lengthy letter of praise to the developers; the happy players just play. So it is with comments about minorities - only the ones who dislike $minority tend to post a lot, and then of course the politically correct out to Save The World. They usually end up in heated discussions anyway, though, so anyone defending the jews will have their posts show up in, yes, a negative thread.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    11. Re:See below by Calydor · · Score: 1

      I'm not even sure it's deemed homosexuality to be bad, but perhaps "Deviating from the average of averages" as bad.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    12. Re: See below by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for posting this.

      I'd make a slightly different point.

      AI is only as good as it's topology, optimisation (learning alorithms) and data set used to train.

      Despite appearances, this last one is what is currently killing AI. The fact that people like this google team think they can pull stuff from the internet and treat it as good-enough dataset to gauge sentiment just shows how scary and dangerous the wrong application of AI can be.

      First, the data set is skewed because there is still a *lot* of people who do not use internet. There is a lot of people who do not post, use 'social' etc. There are a lot of things that are cultural - what makes sense in africa may not make sense in nepal.

      And then there are a lot of data sources with agendas - designed to manipulate humans into thinking something or other. Take newspapers and TV - you as a human know breitbart is about as truthful as theonion...

      Then you have other effects - who shouts loudest (e.g. somebody angry about something), interest groups etc all of which we can sort through as humans.

      I think we are at a dangerous stage of AI development. When people are trying to 'productise AI' but don't understand it, it's limitations, dangers and ethical consequences of using it.

    13. Re:See below by temcat · · Score: 1

      They asked "what people think of X" and got the answer "people (in our sample) think that X is bad". This answer is a simple fact about opinions in the sample and has nothing to do with your millenia of philisophical thought, which were devoted to a different question—namely, "is X bad in some objective or intersubjective sense". The fact that opinions on X are negative is not "wrong" per se and should not be "fixed". If, however, you require that, given the question, the machine must never answer "people think that X is bad", it's unclear why you need to ask at all.

    14. Re:See below by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      The analysis powers a censorship algorithm. The issue they're having is trying to make a computer follow inherently illogical and insane liberal extremist views.

    15. Re: See below by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Selectively selecting the data is biasing too.

    16. Re:See below by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      The purpose is to figure out if a sentence has negative connotations.

      Can a sentence be 'objectively negative?' Or is it always going to be subjective?

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    17. Re:See below by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And a racist is hiding around every corner.

    18. Re:See below by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In which case, it's giving accurate results.

      What use is a sentiment analysis that always gives the result zero?

    19. Re:See below by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can't tell if serious..

      The statement being said is pretty much a factual statement, not subjective or ideological at all.. If someone has a strong reaction to a topic, they say it, they say it. If someone doesn't, they don't bother.

      If you had a hamburger from Carl's Jr, do you call the manager and tell him that it was fine an nothing was wrong with it? Or do you only call if there's a problem?

      This is one of those things where the statement about the statement reveals more about you and your style of reasoning than anything else.

    20. Re:See below by werepants · · Score: 1

      Contrary to what the media will tell you, racists are proud of being racist.

      So you don't think there are people out there who discriminate based on skin color but won't admit it publicly?

    21. Re:See below by Glarimore · · Score: 1

      If I take a million+ sample size of college students, it's still going to be bias if I'm trying to draw conclusions about the average person -- it's going to skew heavily towards a higher socio-economic background, educated, female, young, and liberal. Can you not see how that is relevant to extracting meaning form the data, even though the sample size is huge?

    22. Re:See below by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahh, yes. The "valuable" balanced opinions of the bigot's side. Let me add to this balanced discourse with a heartfelt, "go fuck yourself, you knuckle-dragging shit monger."

    23. Re:See below by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      Can you not see how that is relevant to extracting meaning form the data, even though the sample size is huge?

      I didn't say it wasn't "relevant", I said that a large biased sample gave your more information than no data at all. Can you not see that?

      Of course, in the case of sentiment analysis, the discussion is moot anyway. First of all, we know that even people who believe themselves to hold tolerant and positive views of minorities often actually associate negative sentiments with those minorities. Second, even if we undersample the population of people with positive sentiments, that doesn't eliminate the large population of people with negative sentiments.

      Incidentally, I am in a couple of those minorities, and what Google is doing is not helpful. You can't get rid of negative sentiments by pretending they don't exist.

    24. Re:See below by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am grateful to see this at the top. "Negative Sentiment" not only doesn't seem like a moral judgement, but rather an insight into what we are really doing linguistically. My assumption (based on nothing in particular) is that such labels inherently and uniquely imply a kind of other; gay versus other, Jew versus other, etc. While people could be using these terms to reference positive affirmations, it does not surprise me at all if a dispassionate arbiter would find a bias in a large collection of people's language to such a degree that the words themselves become suspect.

    25. Re:See below by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      I just don't understand why Google should apologize

      Obviously public relations is outside your wheelhouse, maybe just stop at not understanding? And wait until you understand before forming opinions?

    26. Re:See below by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Lets take a poll on the value of pi while we're at it.

    27. Re:See below by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      That's rarely true. Most racists bellyache all day about being forced[sic] to use "PC" language, even though nobody ever asked them to lie about their views. What they were actually told was, "you can't talk that way in this establishment, I'm going to have to ask you to leave," and also, "You're just a racist asshole, shut up."

      Nobody ever asked them to lie. And their bellyaching is complete bullshit. You'll meet at least 1000 of them for every 1 person who is actually honest.

    28. Re:See below by temcat · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because apparently "public relations" can justify any bullcrap.
      Fuck you.

    29. Re:See below by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      You've got some derp on your chin.

      Oh, and BTW, many people can understand it just fine, and therefore know if it is "justifying" something, or serving some other function. Since you already admitted you don't understand, you're clearly not qualified to determine what function their words serve.

    30. Re:See below by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not being able to reproduce through natural means is negative. Being a lefty is negative since you can't use the same equipment as everybody else. Being a Jew is negative because a lot of people hate you and some even wants to gas you.

      Most things have a negative side to them. I guess its up to you to decide if the positives out weight the negatives.

    31. Re:See below by Methadras · · Score: 1

      In this case, the article and the ensuing discussion is that Google's AI says being a homo is bad. I wonder if they are going to fire it for speaking such heresy against the dialectic? Especially if you are a homosexual, redheaded, lefty jew.

    32. Re:See below by temcat · · Score: 1

      Yeah. But some apparently feel the need to apologize even for reporting that many people find this true.

  5. That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...there was a period in time when it was bad.
    There was also a period in time when you could be killed for it.
    There was also a period in time when most of the Christian church would burn you to death for it.

    It was, and in some places it still is. Humanity was and still is capable of doing really shitty things, and it will continue to do so.
    In some cases you'll eradicate it, and in some other places you'll just force people down the PR hole into passive aggressive land.

    The world is an ugly place like that. It's nowhere near as neat as we'd like to think it is, and if you look for ugliness you won't be looking far. Just don't act so surprised when you find it.

    1. Re:That's because... by Hylandr · · Score: 0, Troll

      Biologically speaking homosexuality is bad for the replication of any species in it's most basic form, with the exception of creatures that are capable of legitimately swapping between the male or female role in order to mate.

      This is a scientific certitude that only delusion will argue with.

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    2. Re:That's because... by Jeremi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Biologically speaking homosexuality is bad for the replication of any species in it's most basic form

      Well, no.

      Being homosexual might be bad for the replication of the individual (since it reduces the individual's chances of having offspring), but it doesn't necessarily follow that it's therefore also bad for the species.

      Consider that childless homosexuals, not being burdened by the task of having to care for children of their own, will likely therefore have extra time and resources available to help protect and care for the children of child-bearing couples in their family or community, thus improving the children's (and therefore the species') chances of surviving. Given the huge time investment that human children require, increasing a child's odds of survival to adulthood is a huge win.

      And if you think that sort of dynamic is uncommon in nature, consider that fact that 99% of bees are sterile and play no role in the reproduction of their hive, except to gather food and protect the queen and the drones who do handle the reproduction.

      Specialization and division of labor is one of the things human civilization is based on; there's no reason it can't be applied to reproduction as well.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    3. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's hardly a scientific certitude. It's an assumption based on a reductionist understanding of evolution.

      There are many hypothesis about how homosexuality may be an adaptive advantage of the species.

    4. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Racist sexist Nazi scum Trumpster fire! Ban this user for this post NOW!

    5. Re:That's because... by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      On the plus side, we're on the Slashdot and can plausibly examine this scientifically without being drowned out by those who will hear no dissenting opinion.

      There is some evidence, admittedly with rat studies, that species overpopulation leads to increased violence and homosexual behavior; interestingly enough, both population control mechanisms.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    6. Re:That's because... by dfghjk · · Score: 2

      "Biologically speaking homosexuality is bad for the replication of any species in it's most basic form..."

      There is utterly no evidence to support this assertion, and there is evidence that homosexuality is, in fact, a side effect of an adaptation that improves reproduction in a species.

      "This is a scientific certitude that only delusion will argue with."

      And this says a lot about your intellectual capacity, or lack thereof, not that your bogus claim matters in any way. It is what it is.

    7. Re:That's because... by dfghjk · · Score: 1

      Nah, he's just passing off his own publicly claimed preferences as biologically superior in hopes of soothing his insecurities over his orientation.

    8. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no such scientific certainty. There are multiple scientific observations contrary to the simple logic above, and multiple scientific theories that attempt to explain why. Biologically speaking homosexuality may be beneficial to the population even if it is reproductively disadvantageous for some individuals.

    9. Re:That's because... by rmdingler · · Score: 0

      There is utterly no evidence to support this assertion, and there is evidence that homosexuality is, in fact, a side effect of an adaptation that improves reproduction in a species.

      Sure, in a Bizzaro universe where, statistically, sex between heterosexual breeders doesn't lead to more offspring than homosexual pairings.

      Please. Elaborate.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    10. Re: That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If we must ban him, comrade, then we must ban you too.

    11. Re:That's because... by clonehappy · · Score: 0, Troll

      Bees are a terrible fucking example.

      Human females, unlike Queen bees, can't mate with 15-20 males over the course of a few days, taking in enough sperm to last 2-3 years and produce thousands of fertilized eggs a day until the sperm is exhausted, at which point she is killed by the worker bees because she is no longer useful (not able to reproduce generally equals not useful in nature) to the colony!

      Look, I get that homosexuality isn't a socially unacceptable thing in society, nor do I think it should be. But from a biological standpoint, no one can say that it can scientifically be positively correlated to the replication of the species. Trying to do so just shows how strongly the agendas and propaganda has worked on you that you feel the need to go as far as using a false equivalence to try and disprove the "scientific certitude" in the GP's post and thereby proving your own delusions.

    12. Re:That's because... by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Consider that childless homosexuals, not being burdened by the task of having to care for children of their own, will likely therefore have extra time and resources available to help protect and care for the children of child-bearing couples in their family or community

      Yeah, that's definitely how it goes in the real world. Did you have a source but forgot to cite it?

    13. Re:That's because... by clonehappy · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't say it's a reductionist understanding of evolution, or even just or survival of a given species. It just means that right now, today, it really doesn't matter.

      Basing an understanding of this on the current state of the human race, October 2017, 50 percent of the population could be homosexual and it would hardly effect the survival of our species. Remove all modern scientific, technological and medical advances, say some global catastrophe hit us tomorrow and reduced the population of humans to tens of thousands, a 50% rate of homosexuality would absolutely be a negative effect on the species.

      The low rate of homosexuality, however, of around roughly 2% that we generally see in humans probably wouldn't affect the chances of survival much, though. It would still have an effect however, albeit negligible, and I don't see how anyone can argue that someone who has an extremely low chance of reproducing can NOT impair rates of reproduction. It's like saying being drunk doesn't impair my ability to drive. Sure it does, by definition of what being drunk is.

    14. Re:That's because... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      Biologically speaking homosexuality is bad for the replication of any species in it's most basic form,

      So, you think that being a nun, a soldier, or an explorer is also "bad for the replication of the species"? After all, those people also tend not to reproduce. What about social insects?

      Sorry, but humans are not cockroaches or rabbits. Humans have been so enormously successful precisely because we are a social species and a species that places many values ahead of maximizing reproduction.

    15. Re:That's because... by clonehappy · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter. He has espoused the correct talking points, and is therefore "Insightful". We have no need to examine reality to see if it matches the fantasy.

    16. Re:That's because... by clonehappy · · Score: 2

      Yes, I think being celibate is bad for replication. By definition of replication and by definition of celibate. In fact, any activity which does NOT result in replication will not positively affect replication.

    17. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Human females, unlike Queen bees, can't mate with 15-20 males over the course of a few days, taking in enough sperm to last 2-3 years

      My ex-girlfriend is prepared to provide a counter example.

    18. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you apply the same logic to those who are barren, for whatever reason?

    19. Re:That's because... by clonehappy · · Score: 1

      As I typed it, I knew this response was coming.

      Bravo!

    20. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uh, depends on the female.

    21. Re:That's because... by kamapuaa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But from a biological standpoint, no one can say that it can scientifically be positively correlated to the replication of the species

      You repeatedly speak in absolutes ("noone can say" - "biologically homosexuality is bad") when there isn't cause for it and there certainly isn't a scientific consensus. You imagine a PC agenda propagating homosexuality as good for the species, when that really makes no sense.

      Homosexuality is common throughout nature. While biological dead ends do make it through the process of evolution for a long time, homosexuality is so endemic that it seems that it must have some positive impact on the species, or it would have evolved out. The theory isn't there, but empirically nature has shown it to be true.

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    22. Re:That's because... by aiht · · Score: 1

      The point being made here is that focusing entirely on reproduction can have a negative impact on long-term survival. Too many children can mean that everybody starves.
      You're using "replication" to mean the act of one individual giving birth. Doctorvo is using "replication of the species" to mean a long term increase in size of the entire population.

    23. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Analogy: sickle-cell trait. Bad for the individuals who get sickle-cell anemia, great for the larger group who get more malaria resistance, if you're in an environment with lots of malaria.

      Hypothetical: Imagine that more testosterone makes you a more reproductively-successful man, but too much testosterone makes you a reproductively-unsuccessful gay man. Then the reproductively optimal distribution of testosterone would be unlikely to be at a level where there are zero gay men in the population. The evolutionary optimizer will crank up the testosterone for the benefit of more of the population even if it has adverse reproductive effects for some individuals.

      We don't know the genetics of homosexuality. It is demonstrably not as simple as either of these two examples. But it is clearly not impossible for it to work something like this.

    24. Re:That's because... by doctorvo · · Score: 1

      Yes, I think being celibate is bad for replication. By definition of replication and by definition of celibate

      This is what you were saying:

      Biologically speaking homosexuality is bad for the replication of any species

      In fact, there is no definition of "replication of any species"; species don't "replicate", and neither do mammalian individuals. So your statement is nonsense to begin with. "Replication of the species" is correctly referred to as the "fitness" of the species, and higher reproductive rates do not automatically lead to higher fitness. Looking across biology, it's crystal clear that sterility, celibacy, and/or homosexuality are common in highly successful social species, so they are obviously not automatically harmful, and they likely carry some benefits. Biologists, in fact, already understand some of those benefits.

      Even for heterosexuals, having fewer kids and investing more in them may lead to more reproductive success than having more kids and investing less in them. In fact, you see this in many animal species, which will kill off any but the strongest offspring when resources grow scarce.

      Of course, in addition, homosexuality does not preclude reproduction. In the past, the vast majority of practicing homosexuals, both men and women, would nevertheless marry and reproduce. In the future, homosexuals will likely have alternative means of reproduction.

    25. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gay people make good drones, got it.

    26. Re:That's because... by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's definitely how it goes in the real world. Did you have a source but forgot to cite it?

      In modern times it's obvious bullshit. In historic time... the men in the tribe hunt, the women gather. The men fight off other tribes, the women raise children. If some males didn't contribute to kids but contributed to the survival of the tribe why not? They'd hardly be exempt to live their own individual lives as we know them today. It's very common in pack animals for the alpha male to be the one mating, both women and in particular men have far greater reproductive ability than what is sustainable.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    27. Re: That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had to share this because it struck me funny. My dyslexia kicked in and I misread "gather food" as "father good."

    28. Re:That's because... by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Consider that childless homosexuals, not being burdened by the task of having to care for children of their own,

      Look, if you ask Google what percentage of men dont have kids, it will tell you what percentage of women dont have kids.

      Nobody cares what percentage of men dont have children. As you travel down this rabbit hole of learning the percentage of men that never pass on their genes, you will realize how fucking stupid you just were. There is not a shortage of childless men. There is a massive surplus of them.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    29. Re: That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thereâ(TM)s the fecund mother thing. Where gay men have lots of female relatives with lots of kids. Because fancying men is a genetic trait, sometimes the boy kids get it to.

    30. Re: That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *ding, ding, ding* We have a winner!

    31. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many gay couples adopt children.

    32. Re:That's because... by houghi · · Score: 1

      One word : Turing
      Two moe words : Da Vinci

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    33. Re:That's because... by drewlake2000 · · Score: 1

      Look, if you ask Google what percentage of men dont have kids, it will tell you what percentage of women dont have kids.

      Not true at all. For example consider a group of 3 men and 3 women. 2 of the men have a child with each of the women. 33% of men don't have children. 0% of women don't have children. What you say works if you only have sex within a monogamous relationship and only have one such relationship in your life.

    34. Re:That's because... by drewlake2000 · · Score: 1

      Yes, I think being celibate is bad for replication. By definition of replication and by definition of celibate. In fact, any activity which does NOT result in replication will not positively affect replication.

      Only for the individual. What if a celibate friend introduces you to your soul mate? Or in the dim and distant past, a priest marrying a couple. There are many ways that an individual who does not reproduce can increase the reproduction rate of a population.

    35. Re:That's because... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Examples: Ancient Greece / Macedonia, Roman Empire, Vikings. Lots of examples of highly successful civilisations that had high instances of homosexuality (Alexander the Great's wife complained that he'd rather sleep with his generals than with her) and seem to have done very well out of it.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    36. Re:That's because... by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Not true at all.

      Except for that whole science stuff proving that you are not just wrong in the here and now, but throughout history.

      You do know that the information is in our dna, right? it is observed that the variation in Y chromosomes is not as much as the X chromosomes, and the amount of this missing variance can only be explained by significantly fewer males passing on their genes than females. Women are 50% more likely to pass on their genes you ignorant sexist fuck. Why do you hate men?

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    37. Re:That's because... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      You've misunderstood GP entirely. He is being literal. I googled "what percentage of men don't have kids" and here is the answer (the highlighted search result that Google thinks best answers my question without having to click a link):

      According to the U.S. Census Bureau's Current Population Survey, in 2014, 47.6 percent of women between age 15 and 44 had never had children, up from 46.5 percent in 2012. This represents the highest percentage of childless women since the bureau started tracking that data in 1976.Apr 9, 2015

    38. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being homosexual might be bad for the replication of the individual (since it reduces the individual's chances of having offspring), but it doesn't necessarily follow that it's therefore also bad for the species.

      Killer whale and human females stop being able to reproduce after a certain age (menopause), yet still live for quite a long time after that. Evolution has dictated this. Killer whales are a matriarchal society. Evolution ruthlessly selects for what helps the species survive more effectively. Clearly the menopausal, non-reproductive females have a beneficial effect on the population, likely through their ability to supply additional care for the group.

    39. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you are assuming that homosexuality is genetic. While this is attractive to homosexuals ("I was born this way, its who I am") and to homophobes ("Its a physical defect not a choice someone (like me) could make") there is no basis for it.

      On the contrary, the fact that it leads to the individual's lack of reproduction demonstrates very nicely that, if it were genetic, it could not last over the long term as it would eventually be weeded out. Arguments likening homosexuality to the sterile population of bees are examples of false analogy -- which should be obvious given even the barest modicum of thought.

      While it isn't *popular* the reality is that homosexuality is *behavioral* not genetic. It fundamentally *is* a choice. Disparaging someone for their choices can be fine (there are plenty of examples of people who have caused lots of harm through their decisions), but attacking someone for being homosexual is ridiculous. The most harm that can be contrived is a "social" harm based on some imaginary "divine judgement".

      But lets stop with the pretending that homosexuality is genetic.

    40. Re:That's because... by hardihoot · · Score: 1

      You said: "Consider that childless homosexuals, not being burdened by the task of having to care for children of their own, will likely therefore have extra time and resources available to help protect and care for the children of child-bearing couples in their family or community..."

      No, this rarely happens. All of the heterosexual couples I know with children, which includes myself, would never allow a homosexual unsupervised access to children. Normal, sane, not drug-addled parents do not want their children to become homosexual any more than they want their children to become schizophrenic, or become a prostitute, or a drug addict, and they certainly do not want their children emulating such behavior or develop some abhorrent idea that homosexuality is normal and acceptable behavior (it is not). Furthermore, many homosexuals are substance abusers and suffer from depression (because they know they are "doing life wrong" but continue along anyway) so are therefore unfit to watch over children.

      Finally, the few homosexuals I know have no interest in being bothered with babysitting children but instead want to party or spend all their time for themselves.

      When I saw a male dog try to hump someone's leg, I used that as a teaching moment for my children: dogs, and most other mammals do not know to breed unless their mating instinct is triggered. God created all the animals to mate with their own kind and produce offspring. Homosexuals are confused and disoriented like that dog over there and there is a problem with that person that needs to be fixed. Do not be confused like the homosexual person, it is perversion, and also, an abomination in the eyes of God.

      --
      A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver --Proverbs 25:11
    41. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, a lot of what you see in nature seems to be bisexuality or a blithe lack of fucks given about the sex/gender identity of possible partners, with some species known to not care if their partner is consenting, the same species, or alive.

      This should also suggest an inherent problem with using nature for establishing your ethical baseline.

    42. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Homosexuality is common throughout nature.

      Homosexual behaviour is common throughout nature: evolution repurposes sex to fulfill other social roles. Exclusive homosexuality, to the exclusion of heterosexual sex, is much rarer, though still explainable in evolutionary terms.

      homosexuality is so endemic that it seems that it must have some positive impact on the species, or it would have evolved out

      You've made a fundamental error here that is completely orthogonal to the specific issue of homosexuality. Evolution doesn't work towards positive impact on the species! If a particular gene provides the individual with a small benefit, at catastrophic cost to the species as a whole, evolution will promote it. I highly recommend Richard Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene" for a thorough discussion of this topic: it's a misconception that comes up again, and again, and again.

    43. Re:That's because... by ArylAkamov · · Score: 1

      Downboated for hurt feelings

    44. Re:That's because... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      That does happen. There are some childless couples in my family, and they do take an interest in their nieces and nephews. It doesn't seem to matter whether they're opposite-sex or same-sex. So, the question is not whether that ever occurs, but how often and how significant it is.

      Now, what GP is doing right is at least attempting to avoid straight reductionism, which assumes that society is just like an individual.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    45. Re:That's because... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The reason the Y doesn't pass on as much information as the X is that it's much smaller, not that Ys are all similar to each other. It has nothing to do with number or variety of reproducing males. I've seen speculation that the Y chromosome lost significance as part of meta-evolution, that since it couldn't be gotten rid of (a woman can pass either X chromosome on to a child of either sex, while a man has to pass his Y to any son) human evolution proceeded better with little information on the Y.

      A mother will provide 23 chromosomes to the child, one of which is an X. A father will provide 23 chromosomes to the child, one of which is a Y. That's less than 5% difference in the amount of genes passed on.

      I'm only talking about the most common case here. I'm aware that it can get far more complicated, but it usually doesn't.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    46. Re:That's because... by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      Biology can never decide something has meaning.

      For that you need agency.

      If a guy showed up on my doorstep asking to take my daughter out for biological purposes, I would tell him to get off my porch if he valued his life.

    47. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This assumes that homosexuality is a heritable trait. Supposing that it results from environmental effects or pathogens, you can't make that assumption. "Polio was common throughout nature... " etc

    48. Re:That's because... by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      I don't at all doubt your experiences, and I trust you don't doubt mine where a healthy percentage of GL[A-Z]+ folks I know don't seem particularly interested in taking care of children at all, much less to a degree that's likely to increase their overall survival rate per OP's somewhat risible claim. (I do note you limited your observation to couples, which could explain some of the difference in our experiences. But OP didn't limit the proposition to couples, and given the large percentage of single-parent households these days it seems like you'd need to include single people to really have an apples to apples comparison.) In any event, I very much agree it would be useful to have data rather than anecdotes.

      But even if some reasonable amount of that goes on, there's a higher-level flaw in OP's thought process imo: it assumes that the average person-years society gains by them helping care for others' children exceeds (or even comes close to) the person-years society gains by them having a child or two of their own. I'm sure you could come up with some outlier situations where that might hold, but in the main that would be some fairly surprising math.

    49. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not trying to be weird, but you can consider gay to be a trait one is born with, it would seem to be an exception to Darwin theory, in that while it might not have a negative impact to survival, it would certainly have an impact on reproduction and propagation of genetic material to offspring (provided exclusive). Given that, it should have been evolved out of existence a long time ago. I wonder if there are any theories out there about that...

    50. Re:That's because... by Hylandr · · Score: 1

      Biology makes agency relevant though.

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    51. Re:That's because... by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      Not making choices in a vacuum ... yeah, that's true.

    52. Re:That's because... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      My friends and relatives tend to pair off. It doesn't necessarily involve legalities, and it isn't always opposite sexes. I don't have all that many who are definitely single.

      Evolution doesn't care about person-years. Evolution cares about survival of enough beings to keep a viable population going on, and that isn't simple. It may be that having more non-reproducing adults around helps that.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    53. Re:That's because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or it is an example of entropy in the evolutionary process. Perhaps the positive impact is to limit reproduction. However, the same argument would then need to be applied to Down's Syndrome and every other reproductive limiting issue facing humanity.

  6. dupe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    They keep 'rediscovering' this every few months. Why is this a story?

    The reality of it is, the algorithm is functioning as expected. It is quantifying sentiments that actually exist in our society. GIGO

  7. Investing in lots of popocorn... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To watch this one play out. I'm especially looking forward to seeing it applied to their own "gender-fluid" internal office politics.

    Actually, the internal "gender-sensitive" politics is a great way to tell who will not get anything done in the next 2 years. It's been hysterical to watch play out in the coffee houses near their businesses, and in their Facbook postings about "finding themselves" as they actually get fired for failure to do anything.

  8. (FTFGoogle) by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

    Brad: You tricked me, I wouldn't have...I' ve never never...never... Frank: Oh Yes yes, I know...but it isn't all bad, is it?

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  9. Funny how this always happens. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's almost like objective, quantifiable reality and feel-good political correctness are fundamentally at odds with each other.

    1. Re:Funny how this always happens. by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      Homosexuality is objectively, quantifiably a bad thing?

      Or maybe it's just the AI is prone to picking up on asshats using "gay" as an insult, and a bunch of 4chan conspiracy theories about Jews that have somehow become mainstream now.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Funny how this always happens. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a bunch of 4chan conspiracy theories about Jews that have somehow become mainstream now.

      They aren't theories, and they predate 4chan by millennia.

    3. Re:Funny how this always happens. by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. It is more of an indictment against the "AI". It isn't AI at all, it is just a parlor trick, like Eliza.

    4. Re:Funny how this always happens. by WallyL · · Score: 1

      No, they're just using Tay as the input, and we all know about GIGO.

    5. Re:Funny how this always happens. by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      Objectivity and metrics are both tools to disguise opinions.

      Nietchze figured this out long, long ago.

      "There are no facts, just opinions"

  10. Well duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sticking your penis in another mans anus is just wrong.

    1. Re:Well duh by Opportunist · · Score: 1, Insightful

      As long as it's neither your dick or ass, how's it your business? Or do you make other guys dicks and asses your business?

      That's SO gay, dude!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Well duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      Read this if you can stomach it. You might stop reading when he describes is anus prolapsing out of his anus. (His anus turned inside out and fell out). Yes I'm scared to hell of sodomy and what it can do to society. So it is my business.

      http://josephsciambra.com/surviving-gaybarely/

    3. Re:Well duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      correction his anus fell out of his recutm

    4. Re:Well duh by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      As long as it ain't my ass that's falling out of my asshole, I don't really care that much. I have to repeat my question, why do you make someone else's ass your business?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Well duh by Rockoon · · Score: 0

      As long as it's neither your dick or ass, how's it your business?

      Discussing this shit in a public forum is making it everyones business.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    6. Re:Well duh by adrn01 · · Score: 1

      Especially if congresscritters!

    7. Re:Well duh by drewlake2000 · · Score: 1

      Straight women can have anal sex, and can perform it on straight men. Some gay men don't like to give or receive anal sex.

    8. Re:Well duh by drewlake2000 · · Score: 1

      You're confusing scat with gay.

    9. Re:Well duh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does that mean that if we discuss the postal service we all have the right to go through your mail? If we discuss food am I allowed to go through your trash to see what you're eating? If we discuss teenage pregnancy rates does that give me the right to also discuss your daughters pussy and what she does with it?

      Well done for posting today's "Stupid Comment of the Day"!

    10. Re:Well duh by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      How are google's search results your business either?

      Why is it only not someone's business on this specific topic?

      Let me help you: "It is only not someone's business when the results doesn't coddle and make my opinion about homosexuality feel validated".

      I don't think you are exactly enlightening anyone here.

  11. Milo by Neo-Rio-101 · · Score: 0

    labels both being a Jew and being a homosexual as negative.

    Don't tell Milo Yiannopolous

    --
    READY.
    PRINT ""+-0
  12. IBM Watson says Trump is a lying, fat faggot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nt

  13. It only reflects common usage by DavenH · · Score: 2

    Nobody at Google goes through a dictionary choosing the sentiment of words; it's the context of word usage out in the world that trains these models. So it's not Google's fault, it's our fault, if blame is to be laid.

    1. Re: It only reflects common usage by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, but you are mistaken. It's Google's fault for thinking there is any inherent meaning beyond the ephemera of a present moment in this 'data' whatsoever in the first place. Stupid premise = stupid result

    2. Re:It only reflects common usage by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      So it's not Google's fault,

      Yeah it is. They failed to account for serious skew in their training data. That's literally exactly the fault of the data scientists involved. It's a very hard thing to get right and they didn't manage this time. Now they can go and make it better.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    3. Re:It only reflects common usage by Hobbes_2100 · · Score: 1

      Let's be careful with our use of the word skew because it could be a linguistic synonym for "bias" or for a technical definition of data distributions. One comes with an intention that Google wanted to put down certain classes of people while the second one is factual statement about the types of comments that exist online. When you have a dataset with two classes (say, healthy/sick, valid/fraudulent, or "gay used in a positive light"/"gay used in a negative light") it may be the case that uniform random sampling will lead to very many examples of Type I and very few example of Type II. This is even with a representative sample of data from the wild. It is because the underlying phenomena is not necessarily balanced. For example, in medical diagnostic scenarios, very often, there are many examples of healthy people but sickness is relatively rare. We're glad this is the case as compassionate human beings, but extracting signal to find the disease pattern can be difficult. The problem is even worse when we have unlabelled anomaly detection. If we *want* to develop rules that are generated in a balanced way, we have to do random sampling that is *not* uniformly random over the whole population. We can either (1) weight our sampling by the inverse of the sub-population frequency or (2) perform stratified sampling where we guarantee some number (or some ratio) of samples from our sub-populations. Best, Mark

  14. You can fool yourself by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    but you can't fool everyone else.

  15. That's funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seeing as how I think the notion of a 'sentiment analyzer' is gay.

  16. Look in the mirror by JOstrow · · Score: 5, Informative

    So many of us already use "gay" and "jew" as derogatory terms. Is it any wonder that Google's NLP picked up on that? What source do you think it learned from?

    1. Re:Look in the mirror by lucm · · Score: 1

      So many of us already use "gay" and "jew" as derogatory terms. Is it any wonder that Google's NLP picked up on that?

      I personally consider "Google" to be a derogatory term. Unlike gays and jews, Google has a track record of being evil.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    2. Re:Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But if "gay" is not bad, why are heterosexuals not practicing or experimenting with gay sex? After all, "gay is not bad." So what's the harm?

      So even though many will verbally say "gay is not bad," (to prevent being labeled homophobes) they secretly believe it is bad.

    3. Re:Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then how come there are more gays in certain states and countries than others? The environment and culture apparently also has an effect on whether someone is gay.

    4. Re:Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell that to all of the prison inmates who practice it by choice.

    5. Re:Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop being such a dick...
      now penises are bad too.

    6. Re:Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reject Gacy / Goodman / Epstein as pervoz and Weinstein /Maddof /Pritzker / Shumer jews as badbads ? ... dammme that takes lots of AI. Better make that training set smaller .

    7. Re:Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      look into banking and bolshevism and the media and the education system

      and the decay of morality and the destruction of the family

    8. Re:Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look into getting actual reputable sources for your claims, instead of repeating disproven lies repeated by those with a racist or hate filled agenda.

    9. Re:Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then how come there are more gays in certain states and countries than others?

      Reference? Or unproven guess?

      The environment and culture apparently also has an effect on whether someone is gay.

      I would guess that there is a fairly constant percentage of people that are born homosexual. The social environment and culture would have a large effect on the percentage who would/could admit to it, as in many places it is dangerous to do so.

    10. Re:Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reference? Or unproven guess?

      These conservative states: Montana, Idaho, Utah, North Dakota, Tennessee, Mississippi, have fewer LGBT (2.8%).

      By comparison, these liberal states have more LGBT people (4.0% to 5.0%): Washington, Oregon, California, Nevada, Maine, Vermont, Massachusetts.

      How come there are twice as many LGBTs in certain leftist class of states than in others? Environment and upbringing. I even saw a hilarious (and disturbing) video on youtube of a man who was dressed as a woman and who identified as a woman, teaching his children to ignore genders -- he even transformed the words "mother and father" into some new words. I just can't find the link to this video. Environment also has an impact.

      Reference:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    11. Re:Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your own statistics back up the theory that people in those states are just more reluctant to identify as LGBT. The states with lower percentages are also generally states with higher emigration, while the liberal states seem to have increasing population- implying that some percentage of the interstate population movement is LGBT people trying to find a safe place. Your anecdotal story about viewing a video is irrelevant, as much as you enjoyed watching it. There are also many stories of people who fled conservative areas, to liberal areas, so they could live their lives the way they were born.

    12. Re:Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We move to places that we're not treated like we're subhuman. Who the hell would want to be gay in Mississippi?

    13. Re:Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I learned it from you, Dad. I learned it from watching you.

    14. Re: Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      are you saying gay people are like slaves?

    15. Re:Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I personally consider "Google" to be a derogatory term. Unlike gays and jews, Google has a track record of being evil.

      Language evolves over time. For example...

      "To Google"
      Old definition: to seek, search, or pursue a gain of knowledge, information, or trivia

      New definition: to ask the Oracle to tell you what to think, regardless of reality

      Alphabet, or whatever they call themselves now, have long since stopped pretending to do no evil. What is surprising to me is that most people don't seem to care.

    16. Re:Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Precisely.

      You have to then make the assumption that you know better than the common sentiment - who are obviously brainwashed or illiterate or whatever.

      At that point, why even bother with the analyses at all? You know what's best, everyone else is wrong. There's no need for analyses, except to tell you that the population needs more propaganda to fix their incorrect beliefs. Which you know are incorrect because you know better than the muck, err poor... proles? What do we call them again?

    17. Re:Look in the mirror by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ironically, it happens with kids also.

  17. Bias by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    So, when your machine learning algorithm tells you what you don't want to hear, it is biaseD. Reprogrammin it not to tell anybody those things is unbiased.

    Are the lefties even trying anymore?

    1. Re:Bias by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess today is the day that AI surpassed human intelligence. Not because machine learning is actually worth a fuck, but because it can actually tell the truth without decades of brainwashing biasing it.

      So of course, the answer is to brainwash the AI. Fan-fucking-tastic.

    2. Re:Bias by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Are the lefties even trying anymore?

      So are you saying the right wing way is to be incredibly simplistic and assume meaning of a sentence derives naively from the agglomerated mean statistics of each word independently in general use?

       

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    3. Re:Bias by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, be fair. Use smaller words so he can join in the conversation.

  18. AI is not politically correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Reading the ridiculous comment from the google spokesperson falling all over themselves to apologize and prattle on with all the talking points of every fake corporate "diversity" statement ever made is pretty hilarious. And pathetic.

    The system came up with its conclusion on its own. It wasn't the desired conclusion by some people's standards. It's a machine that isn't real. Who cares what it "thinks"? Why apologize? Once they program enough biases of all the things it is NOT allowed to consider "bad" the whole point of this application is gone.

    I bet it if it decided that white straight christian/atheist/agnostic males were the scourge of the earth then everybody would celebrate.

    1. Re:AI is not politically correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahaha ... ain't it great SJW gaffots are fucked by a computer ... wonder if they had to bend over hahaha ...

    2. Re:AI is not politically correct by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're going to town commenting on this thread about why Google is right. How about you accept that the program is a mirror of society, and maybe rather than trying to make the program say what you want it to, how about you work on fixing society? What? No? That would be too difficult and it's easier just to lie?

      Of course fixing society is going to be difficult because the typical authoritarian methods used of silencing people you disagree with and the culture of doxing really doesn't help your cause, but these are the only methods used.

  19. people dont choose their chromosomes by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    they are born that way, you dont choose what your sexuality is which is determined by your chromosomes and hormones,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    https://www.youtube.com/result...

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:people dont choose their chromosomes by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      Your honor, my chromosomes told me to commit these crimes and therefore I am exempt from all related sentences.

      Society must be allowed to suffer for the determinism of my genetics.

      No! This is not a ruse!

    2. Re:people dont choose their chromosomes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But someday we will be able to choose and manipulate the chromosomes and genes of our children. Then we can remove all the "negative" LBGT genes and have "normal" heterosexual children only.

  20. And the Majority of the World Agrees. by wisnoskij · · Score: 0

    Well 6 billion people would agree with that sentiment.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    1. Re:And the Majority of the World Agrees. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      some people are gay, and that's fine, but you're just a stupid faggot.

  21. Well, duh! by GerryGilmore · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Even though we like to think that everyone is enlightened, etc as us, in very broad swaths of American society being gay or jewish (or Muslim or...) is very much perceived as a negative out of the starting gate. File under: Sad-But-true.

    1. Re:Well, duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does one tell if someone is gay or Jewish? I've seen more racial slurs thrown at my wealthy Asian friends.

    2. Re:Well, duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even though we like to think that everyone is enlightened, etc as us, in very broad swaths of American society being gay or jewish (or Muslim or...) is very much perceived as a negative out of the starting gate. File under: Sad-But-true.

      I wonder how much of this is based on completely rational reasoning. Gays don't have kids (adoption notwithstanding), and the social purpose of having kids is to keep the population up and society running. Those that don't have kids have their social usefulness cut in half and are seen as not doing their part, so to a pre-robot society whose main resource is population, it's understandable that back then such people were looked down upon. I'm not saying that people were/are right to ostracize/mistreat others based on their sexuality, I'm just saying that such a point of view reaches the realm of rationality when viewed through the lens of history.

      Jews have a tendency to be frugal/cheap and often restrict their social help to only other Jews, whereas in the US people lean more towards the idea of helping everyone. That's not to say that every Christian is an amazing, giving person (every group contains a spectrum of people), but when generalizing those are details that tend to come out. Muslims, well, there's a religion that hasn't left the dark ages. A quarter of muslims living in the UK support Sharia superseding local law when in conflict, if not outright replacing it. People are understandably worried when the fastest-growing demographic wants to outlaw homosexuality (52%) and who knows what else. Again, that's not to say that all muslims think like this, but when large portions of a group of people hold beliefs that are the antithesis of western freedoms, in Europe it's a huge problem that's only going to get worse before it gets better... assuming it ever gets better.

      People are shitty and some groups of people have more shitty people than others, but should judge the people we meet based on their personality/actions and not their labels (heh, if you read between the lines, to SJWs that's oppression because you take people's victimhood away). However, in topics such as mass migration, such generalizations must be taken into consideration, even though I agree that using such terms as insults is bad and nothing but an attempt to make society's problems an us-versus-them problem, which doesn't help anything.

    3. Re:Well, duh! by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      Being a Muslim is being a person who openly declares loyalty to Sharia law over US law. Tell me how that is not negative.

    4. Re:Well, duh! by drewlake2000 · · Score: 1

      All of them? Are you sure? Really?

    5. Re:Well, duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it's a central tenant of their faith. I am sure many if not most Muslims will gloss over that and for the most part accept the superiority of US law, but it does not change the fact of the situation.

      For example in the USA freedom of speech is a pretty fundamental tenet of the legal system. So I have an absolute right to say Mohammad as an owner of slaves is in my view a shit of a human being. What percentage of Muslims living in the USA think I have a right to say the leader of their faith is not remotely a "perfect" human being (a central tenant of their faith). On the other hand every Muslim thinks it's perfectly acceptable to make disrespectful comments about my religion. Specifically they deny that Jesus Christ (who for the record did not own slaves, rape girls under 16 or have people killed like Mohammad) is not the son of God. So they can disrespect my religion but I am not allowed to pass judgement on recorded historical facts about the shitty human being that founded their religion.

    6. Re:Well, duh! by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Actually, no, it's not. Sharia is not defined in the Koran. It is perfectly possible to be a muslim while not regarding sharia as mandatory at all.

    7. Re:Well, duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And many conservatives would be fine with the Sharia of Moses being the law in the US. And even the atheists would agree that some of the commandments are good laws.

      https://www.onfaith.co/onfaith/2010/07/26/islamic-shariah-is-based-on-the-ten-commandments/4165

    8. Re:Well, duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what should US law mean to the majority of Muslims in the world?

    9. Re:Well, duh! by Glarimore · · Score: 1

      I have a great idea -- let's apply a literal interpretation of religious scripts to every individual who claims a given religion. But only if they aren't Christian. Or Jewish. Actually, only if they are Muslim. Yeah, that sounds good.

    10. Re:Well, duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't like to think that because I'm not a moron.

    11. Re:Well, duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LOL. suuuuurreeee.

    12. Re:Well, duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jews have a tendency to be frugal/cheap and often restrict their social help to only other Jews,

      This is racist stereotype, not fact. I suggest you look into the work of Jewish social service groups, it is easy to verify that they help people regardless of race/religion/etc. My temple collects donations for causes like hurricane/earthquake relief, homeless shelter, children's hospital, etc., none of that is restricted to Jewish victims, I've never even hear it suggested. This temple is not atypical.

      Sorry for the headache if my facts are in opposition to your opinions.

    13. Re:Well, duh! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually

      That's a bingo, sir.

    14. Re:Well, duh! by lowkeyknight · · Score: 1

      Well, not only is that staggeringly wrong and ill informed, it also shows a fairly massive US centric bias. As a Brit, I declare my loyalty to British Law over US law! Is that a negative?

  22. Probably just from what it was fed by burtosis · · Score: 2

    These require material to train them and the responses tend to reflect the participants nuanced behavior. I mean, what do people think is going to happen when you force feed it, eyes taped open, to 47 million social media feeds? Seems to be some kind of fine line between an algorithm and portal to hell. Well, at least they did better than Microsoft

    1. Re:Probably just from what it was fed by walterhpdx · · Score: 1

      Well, at least they did better than Microsoft

      Came here exactly for this. I mean it's not like Google's program didn't start saying the things that Microsoft's very public twitter bot did. And Google even apologized and asked for understanding, etc. Microsoft just said, "It's a social experiment, and now it's offline. KTHXBAI!"

  23. Prescriptivism is gay. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    (I don't normally talk like that but it's worth it for the joke.)

    So yeah, analysis is going to read it as negative because people who use it in a non-neutral way overwhelmingly are the people who use it in a negative way. Linguistic prescriptivists hate that (except the ones who hate gays), but they need to get over it. In a few generations it will fall out of use. That or "gay" meaning "homosexual" will. Either way.

  24. Probably just the zeitgeist by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Gay is neither good or bad. Gay is just a label.

    While true, one can easily see the reason for the problem.

    Google API is trained to look for correlations in written text. If it sees a lot of negative text about something, then that's what it will believe.

    I note that there's a lot of text that condemn jews for one reason or another, but there's not a lot that *praises* jews. We hear all the time about Christian charities, for example, but not a lot for the jewish ones(*).

    There's also a lot of negative statements about gays, and although there's *some* text praising gayness, it's mostly either personal ("good on you for having the courage to believe in yourself") or neutral ("it's OK to be gay, it's normal"). I've never seen writing that *praises* gayness as a concept.

    Compare with Christianity, where there is endless adulation of the Christian way of life. Democracy is probably the same way.

    I'd be interested to see what the API thinks about Islam, or Trump, or Clinton, or a host of other controversial political subjects.

    Google API is probably just giving us a reflection of the zeitgeist.

    (*) Don't read anything into this, I'm only saying that Christians get better press.

    1. Re:Probably just the zeitgeist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Keep in mind that when dealing with an AI, it learns from US, and primarily American sources.

      A lot of trolly comments on everything from twitter and facebook to youtube comments and imageboards like 4chan and troll sites like 4chan, encyclopedia dramatica like to shitpost to see what your red buttons are.

      If people didn't have this existential "need" to keep being a shitty person when they're not getting their way, they have to find someone to punch down on, and depending which part of the internet you are on, certain groups are big targets because they don't have a lot of defense.

      1. Furries (and bronies) - Nowhere on the internet will you find people defending furries, but furries are the #1 shitpost target on the internet because it falls below the radar of everything. Simply put, nobody who matters cares about the plight of furries. Bronies only made "being furry" more of a crime because bronies are to furries like Daesh is to Islam. They're an extremist fringe part of the furry spectrum.

      Furries are equally hated among left-leaning and right-leaning internet culture, and is basically the one common punchable target due to "bestiality" concerns.

      2. GLBT - Among the extremes of the internet, it's a crime to be gay unless you're famous, and even then, you're not safe if you live anywhere but Canada. Shitty people will go out of their way to make anyone they know who is gay, or gay-friendly/gay-leaning (eg bi, trans, ace) lives miserable. The farther you go into the deep south of the US, the more hostile it is, but that's nothing compare do how Eastern Europeans (eg Slavic countries) and Arab countries, and South/SouthEast Asia treat treat GLBT as abhorrent crimes.

      GLBT are hated among Conservative "traditionalist" internet culture, as they believe that if you're not a heteronormative person, you're "insane" and should be institutionalized. "Gay" is a slur among heteronormative assholes on the internet.

      3. Jewish people. You can thank Shakespeare for this. The Jewish people are treated by Arabs as non-human, and the Nazi's of WWII decided that gave them licence to exterminate them. Holocaust deniers, are exclusively part of the extremist conservative internet culture. A lot of joke-not-a-joke language is about Jews controlling banks (shylock,) or how the Nazi's were right.

      Among conservative internet culture, it's an almost equal crime to be jewish as being gay. Among Liberal internet culture, Jewish people are also victims of Atheist and Anarchist sub-culture (keep in mind that there are Atheist and Anarchists on both sides of the political spectrum, but it's an especially douchey thing on the left side.) It's like the "on the internet nobody knows you're a dog" joke. Volunteering that you're jewish is as good as signing a "fuck with me, or try to kill me" warrant.

      Conservatives primarily use 'jew' as a slur just as much as 'gay' , which again is about not seeing jewish people as human. Jewish people are over-represented in Hollywood for this very reason, They escaped Europe and settled in Hollywood. So it's very likely every single one of these people who hate on Jews, love some movie made by one.

      4. People of Color. While POC tends to refer to African-American people about 80% of the time, it includes anyone that isn't visibly white too.

      Conservative internet culture, is racist. Period. Liberal internet culture is "non and wink" kind of racist. This is a fun topic to bring up when someone isn't white in the room, because white and "mostly white" people are concerned that someone might be whiter than they are. Where as people who are black, might have ancestry going back 300 years, while that white person might have moved here yesterday.

      With the advent of DNA tests, many racist bigots are finding out that they're anything but pure white. It's very easy to trace someone with African ancestry, but it's difficult to narrow someone down as to being pure angelo-saxon (Germanic/Scandinavian heritage), as the Vikings raided all of northern Europe an

    2. Re:Probably just the zeitgeist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just don't try and use this API to police your gaming chat after they neuter it for the PC people. It will happily tell you that "Hey, JEW FAG!!" is a positive sentiment and meant to convey mutual love and respect of ones culture, religion, and sexual orientation.

    3. Re:Probably just the zeitgeist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I note that there's a lot of text that condemn jews for one reason or another, but there's not a lot that *praises* jews.

      Maybe that's your problem for not reading anything except the Aryan Times, the Neo-Nazi Gazette, and the Bigot's Weekly?

    4. Re:Probably just the zeitgeist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd be interested to see what it says about luxury cars.

      I'll elaborate: Luxury cars tend to get bad reviews. Even luxury cars that are largely glam'd up versions of typically well reviewed vehicles (see: Acura TL vs Honda Civic) the Luxury car usually gets worse reviews. Reviews for luxury cars tend to be overly negative, not because they're bad vehicles, but because people's expectation of things like reliability are commensurate with the money they spend regardless of whether such a conclusion is reasonable. I'd like to see what the response to "I own an Acura" is vs "I own a Honda".

    5. Re:Probably just the zeitgeist by Pascal+Sartoretti · · Score: 1

      Compare with Christianity, where there is endless adulation of the Christian way of life.

      In the USA maybe.

      But when my (European, agnostic) kids hear the words "catholic priest", they rather associate it with "pedophile".

    6. Re:Probably just the zeitgeist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the AI was trained on their out-of-print body that predominantly holds values and mores from 100 years ago, then these results would be expected.

  25. Yep by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's right.

  26. Don't shine a mirror on people... by Fly+Swatter · · Score: 0

    They might not like what they see. Even if they do, they won't like how others look.

  27. Because God punishes the faithful by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    for the sins of the heretic. Look at Sodom and Gomorrah, Noah's Ark, or the raft of preachers who just got done telling us how the hurricanes were caused by us turning our backs on God.

    I've heard it said Islam is worse than Christianity because it encourages it's adherents to kill unbelievers. But honestly if you're a sensible Christian, given the history of God and how he reacts to sin on a large scale, you'd be well advised to do the same. If only for self preservation and defense.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:Because God punishes the faithful by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Given the track record of God (or Allah for that matter), your bets are generally better siding with the gays and fighting that asshole.

      Provided you enjoy fighting windmills and other imaginary enemies, that is.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Because God punishes the faithful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please use tags for tht post. I know too many who can take you seriously and might even try it...

    3. Re:Because God punishes the faithful by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      IIRC, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed because God couldn't find even a few people there who were charitable to the poor and welcoming to strangers.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  28. Maybe it simply detected that humans.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .. are in general just disgusting self-belief conforming shit bags.

    Which If true, puts me in a rather untenable position.

    Maybe our form of life isn't so special after all.

  29. biases by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thats ok. Most americans thought a retard would make a great president.

  30. It's just doing its job by barbariccow · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's just doing its job. Obviously on the data it was trained, "gay" and "jew" were used as derogatory terms. And they're apologizing for that instead of explaining it? Wouldn't you rather have a system that didn't have injected bias, like injecting an override such that "gay" and "jew" receive a sentiment boost despite that being contrary to its training? Total crap. Someone probably ran through every SJW term and happened to find two that didn't have the results they wished it had on usage amongst speech.

    1. Re:It's just doing its job by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      It's just doing its job. Obviously on the data it was trained, "gay" and "jew" were used as derogatory terms.

      Tim Cook is gay; Phil Schiller is Jewish. Google's AI is obviously just extrapolating from the fact that the company's leadership sees Apple as the enemy.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:It's just doing its job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone probably ran through every SJW term and happened to find two that didn't have the results they wished it had on usage amongst speech.

      This is what I suspect: biased reporting. In particular, I'd like to know if there were more negative sentiment attached to "white" and "male" than to "gay" or "jew", given the sort of SJW hate-speech contained within its learning corpus.

    3. Re:It's just doing its job by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Indeed so, and there is a massive problem in TFS.

      The problem is the API labels sentences about religious and ethnic minorities as negative -- indicating it's inherently biased.

      The one does not follow from the other. Who the hell says the one follows from the other, so this sentence belongs in a summary?

      No, the "problem" is that it is not inherently biased, and as you say now they will fix it by *literally* adding "liberal bias" :)

      Likely results? Well now a comment that calls you a "shit-eating faggot jew" is going to get a boost compared to a comment that just calls you a "shit-eating asshole".

  31. Haha, so doesn't /. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    after posting my gay obviously positively biased remarks the negativity I received here indicates slashdot-ers feel the same way...

  32. More like definitely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem Google has to conquer is the age old problem that all parents and other teachers face. They've got to figure out how to get the command "do what I say, not what I do (and often accidentally say)" across to the network. Any parent will tell you that a child's ability to learn what you don't want them to from what you've said or done is uncanny. Neural nets are very similar.

    To train these systems takes millions of inputs. Even if every input is vetted to the best of our abilities, our abilities at recognizing bias in the training data, especially if it is spread thinly throughout, is near nonexistent.

    This bias came from us. It is not something that Google intentionally taught. It is a reflection in a mirror.

  33. Analytical Automation Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Software that determines fact by sample predominance is not artificially intelligent, it is analytically sophisticated.
    Fact determination without presupposition is the elusive goal of true artificially intelligent systems.

    1. Re:Analytical Automation Software by guruevi · · Score: 1

      No, fact determination without presupposition is not at all "AI". Current computers are VERY, VERY GOOD at fact determination, they can after all exactly recollect what has happened at any point they observed something.

      These things are just big "autonomous filters", not intelligent at all, so garbage-in, garbage-out. It does allow for some interpolation of non-existent data based on the fact determination. What Google and co. are building are programs that require less programming, so for example, to manually write every line of code for every event of an autonomous car, you would have to have lots and lots of code, too much for anyone to manage. These "AI's" are simply programs that write themselves all sorts of cases based on the inputs they receive and these are very narrow and guided adaptations.

      Intelligence, IMHO, has nothing to do with facts (which any automaton can recite facts) but rather with accurate modeling of the facts beneficial for the furtherance of the species (whether that species is biological, mechanical, electronic or a combination). The question is whether we "intelligent humans" are "just fact filters" or if there's more to it. To me, it seems we should be able to emulate even human brains with the amount of processing power available to us but we just haven't figured out yet what it means to be intelligent.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  34. For artificial intelligence ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... the "intelligence" is that of a human.

    Humans have biases. That's not a good thing, but it's human and it's intelligence.

    Filtering out bias moves AI out of the intelligence business and into "artificial manipulation."

    I'm OK with that and I don't have a problem with the "artificial" label, but don't call a filtered machine intelligent.

    This is a validation for those of us who preach that "artificial intelligence" will not be a thing until a computer gets random and throws a fit, like committing suicide if Facebook is down.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:For artificial intelligence ... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Filtering out bias moves AI out of the intelligence business and into "artificial manipulation."

      Bullshit.

      Dealing with unequally weighted classes is hard, and it's a problem that comes up a lot. You're only getting all hot and bothered because it's about some topic you care about rather than (say) detecting rare scratches on a wafer, or an unusual cellular fission buried in thousands of normal ones.

      What most of us ML practitioners do with biased data is filter or weight the data otherwise the algorithm will just output the modal class every time, since it will get an easy but not useful 99.5% that way.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:For artificial intelligence ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      You said:

      You're only getting all hot and bothered because it's about some topic you care about ...

      I said:

      I'm OK with that ...

      My point is that some humans are bonkers. We don't want that, so we "fix," the bonkiness in computers and not in humans.

      Batshit crazy AI fanbois are ignoring the definition of, "intelligence."

      We are talking about human intelligence, which has its warts.

      We sure as hell aren't talking about duplicating the intelligence of a goddam sunflower.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  35. Wow. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's so gay.

  36. But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its correct. Don't skew something that works.

  37. What the app thinks of Engineering Mechanics by Latent+Heat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I ran a Google Scholar search that turned up a paper "Jerk Influence Coefficients, Through Screw Theory, of Closed Chains." The title is not a vulgar joke as each of the phrases is a term-of-art on the topic of rigid-body (yes, another domain-specific term) mechanics.

    Let's just say Google served me a large number of adds on the assumption that I belong to what is only a narrow subculture of a broader and more diverse community.

    1. Re:What the app thinks of Engineering Mechanics by johanw · · Score: 0

      But they did get right that president Bush was a miserable failure.

    2. Re:What the app thinks of Engineering Mechanics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Let's just say Google served me a large number of adds on the assumption that I belong to what is only a narrow subculture of a broader and more diverse community.

      Did Google serve you any subtracts or just adds? Please be aware there is no substantial difference between a subtract and a negative add.

    3. Re:What the app thinks of Engineering Mechanics by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Boy, I made one comment correcting someone's assumption on how hot forest fires burn in a video about the Napa/Sonoma County wildfires (and how this was clearly a test of a government directed energy weapon). Now my Youtube recommendations are full of directed energy / end times / government conspiracy videos. Fuck me.

  38. Unsupervised Learning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did they really think this wouldn't happen?

    Teaching an AI to learn from humans is going to instill both the good and the bad qualities.

    I do agree that calling something gay or jewish has become a synonymous way expressing one's distaste of something. Just check out S13E12 of South Park. South Park might even be a contributing factor to this method of expression.

    I think the AI correctly assigned the proper meaning to the terms. I don't think the users of these terms are necessarily homophobic or antisemitic either. The South Park episode mentioned above looks at this as well.

    If they really want the AI to be PC, they will be required to do some quality control of the examples they feed it. But OTOH, if it is a PC AI, it will not be able to properly extract the meaning from the words of somebody who isn't PC.

    A scene from Airplane comes to mind. We need an AI that speaks jive.

  39. thoughts aloud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's just what everybody thinks, spoken by a bot. There's no news in here.

  40. Logically speaking... by oic0 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's not a judgement by the AI against the people, it's a judgement about how others react and behave towards those them. Stop apologizing for your AI being able to perceive human behavior. "I'm so sorry my AI figured out you have a flat tire".

    1. Re:Logically speaking... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure you've got it quite right. My take is that they looked at sentences that used "gay" to see whether they were positive or negative. Now, there are two or three people in the world whose sexual orientation is any of my business (and one of them is selection bias against being lesbian), and I rarely talk about it. There's lots of immature brats on the net who use homosexuality as a random slur. That means there's lots and lots of comments from people like them, using "gay" in a negative context, and darn few from people like me, who just don't care about other's sexuality or gender (as long as I know what pronoun to use).

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  41. baby killer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I identify as a baby killer and I'll be offended if google sentiment analyser identifies this term as used with negative sentiment by other people.

  42. Inherently? by K.+S.+Van+Horn · · Score: 1

    "the API labels sentences about religious and ethnic minorities as negative -- indicating it's inherently biased" Does this writer not understand the meaning of the word "inherently"? It would be inherently biased if the bias were built into the algorithm. From the description, it instead sounds like some statistical fluke in the data -- or possibly a reproducible statistical association -- misled the algorithm.

  43. It is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As in subject.

  44. Corpus linguistics by VeryFluffyBunny · · Score: 1

    I suspect that the algorithm itself isn't homophobic or antisemitic. What's more likely is that the data being fed into it is homophobic and antisemitic. An analysis is only as good as the data set it's based on. Just search around /. and you'll find plenty of examples of intolerant speech and portrayals of some groups of people in a very negative light with little or no balance or pushback the other way. I doubt that Facebook and Twitter are any different. If anything, that Google's algorithms detected biases in content of the WWW is an indictment of many of the kinds of things we use the internet to do. I'd like to see analyses broken down into countries, regions, subcultures, etc. to see where the strongest biases are. We might be surprised by it.

    --
    Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
  45. Machines cannot be biased...yet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TL;DR The input provided to a machine can be skewed and reflect bias - sure - but what do you expect with human intelligence controlling the input? Human intelligence is very capable of creating the most wonderful lies in order fullfil its most deluded fantasies.

    ---

    Coming from another perspective - if I had never heard about the holocaust, and barely 'understood' what a human was, or that it had rights, I'd thank my alien god I was not a human jew. Also, Unless my kind also had homosexuals - and we didn't consider it wrong at one point in our recent history - I'd probably think that being afraid to be yourself in front of you friends and family (as many are) is something very bad, and I'd thank my alien god, once again, that I was not a human homosexual.

    In short - we all need to leave the god damn pity party.

    I'm sure any bias present is present only because bias is present throughout human history. It's one of the only reasons any animal survived as long as it has. Machines are not animals.

  46. why is API bad? by superwiz · · Score: 2

    If it just allows for text analysis and the text, as a total body of statements, uses "Jew" or "gay" as insults, wouldn't high fidelity API reflect that? It seems more like a statement about the text being analyzed rather than about the processing. If the analysis didn't have high fidelity to the text, wouldn't it then be biased? Imagine the analysis which corrects for biases against historically-oppressed minorities. Now imagine this black box is fed Mein Kampf and other Nazi works. Should it correct for the biases? That would mean not detecting antisemitic biases in the Nazi propaganda. Wouldn't that make it a bad analysis?

    --
    Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    1. Re:why is API bad? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      If it just allows for text analysis and the text, as a total body of statements, uses "Jew" or "gay" as insults, wouldn't high fidelity API reflect that?

      Not if it's any good, no. If you want a simple analysis that reflects modal usage of words, then a simple lookup table would suffice.

      The thing is, given the context, the sentiment is conditionally independent of the use of the words in all other sentences.

      Now imagine this black box is fed Mein Kampf and other Nazi works.

      It's not a black box. It's well known that if you feed ML systems with biased data you often get biased results. It even has a name, the "class imbalance problem".

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:why is API bad? by superwiz · · Score: 1

      When I say "black box", I mean that it is not fed (or forced if you will) any biases it doesn't find in the larger body of text (not just locally). If there is a bias in text at-large towards anti-gay and antisemitic views, then it's just detecting a larger bias. It's not a value judgement. It's an indication that absent a value system, over-all biases will be present. It's still just a detection of biases in text at-large rather than imposing of biases on text at-large.

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    3. Re:why is API bad? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      yeah but that's not very interesting or useful. If you train ML algorithms on unbalanced classes you usually get an unbalanced result.

      Thing is if you just want the amount of unbalance that's pretty easy and can be done with very simple stats. The whole point of using ML is to do better than just simple stats. They've got labeled data, so they could easily tell already which words correlate with which labels.

      Basically they feed unbalanced classes to an algorithm which isn't robust to unbalanced classes and they got unbalanced results. Not interesting except that they then released an API which used the bad classifier.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    4. Re:why is API bad? by urusan · · Score: 1

      You bring up an interesting point, the context realistically matters more than the word. Fed Mein Kampf, it should be able to tell that "Jew" is being used pejoratively. On the other hand, even if the system has a systematic bias to favor Christians, it should also be able to tell that Christian words are being used negatively in an anti-Christian tract. This shows that the bias actually is a real problem from an AI training perspective, because the bias would lead to more negative scores for language about the Jewish people (positive works wouldn't be rated as positively and negative works would be rated even more negatively), while it would lead to more positive scores for language about Christianity (positive works would be considered even more glowing, while negative works would be rated more positively than they actually are). Given a mildly negative comment about Christianity, it might even consider it a positive remark!

      It seems to me that they're likely still doing relatively poorly even with more context. You would think that the phrase "I am (a/an) X." would get a strong positive sentiment boost in most cases, since you are self-identifying as X, which likely means you have a positive opinion of X. One of the few exceptions to that might be something potentially self-effacing like "I'm a dog.", which I am surprised was thought by the system to be neutral. Maybe the system picked up on these self-effacing cases and thinks that minority affiliation is self-effacing too? That's worrying from an AI training perspective, since this clearly isn't correct. More likely though, it just picked up on the simpler [short response] + [this word] = [pejorative] (which is yet again an issue, because many reasonable short responses without clear positive markers could be very positive).

    5. Re:why is API bad? by superwiz · · Score: 1

      Balancing can only be done relative to a frame of reference. What would be a frame of reference for all publically available text? What about for all printed text? If propaganda can make psychotic regimes, then humans are just as susceptible to global biases. Value judgements is how we correct for it. If they are not present in a system which does what we do, why would you expect that system to be better at classifying than we are?

      --
      Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
    6. Re:why is API bad? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Balancing can only be done relative to a frame of reference.

      Eh what? Balancing is done on a dataset, specifically the training set.

      What would be a frame of reference for all publically available text?

      Are you using that as the training set? If yes, then you need to balance the class labels if your algorithm isn't robust to unbalanced classes. If no, then it is irrelevant.

      I don't think you understand this aspect of machine learning or what unbalanced classes are or why they're a problem. Try these:

      https://machinelearningmastery...
      http://www.chioka.in/class-imb...

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  47. I wonder what it thinks about by philmarcracken · · Score: 1

    Jewish homosexuals.

    1. Re:I wonder what it thinks about by tepples · · Score: 1

      Jewish homosexuals.

      If the Bible is part of its training set, the result is likely to be "Detestable, deserving death."--Leviticus 18:22, 20:13.

  48. It's technically correct by iamacat · · Score: 0

    Being a minority is a negative even when majority is very understanding. Like being gay in an majority-straight society, being a Jew in majority-Christian country, being a non-liberal in Sillicon Valley and so on. What AI may be missing is a human value of being yourself rather than being popular.

  49. If traits can be bad then homosexuality is bad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Your brain is wired in a way which interferes with reproduction - not good! Reproduction is one of the key characteristics of life. If you're a gay male engaging in anal sex then that's an additional health risk - is that good? Gay youth suicide rates are 300% higher than that of normal people - that can't be good.

    Good traits - intelligence, athleticism, attractiveness - don't require social engineering to be acceptable. Let's stop pretending that homosexuality isn't a huge burden to the afflicted, we aren't doing those faggots any favors.

  50. Re: If traits can be bad then homosexuality is bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You most certainly aren't doing anyone any good. You know why the suicide rates are higher for LGBT folk? Go look in the mirror.

  51. IOW being conservative is just a bug by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    I always knew it.

  52. But being Muslim, or Jewish, or Christian, IS bad. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Of course, if you willfully ignore reality and make up your own delusion...
    like a Muslim, or Jew, or Christian, or any other religious aka schizophrenic person would do ... then it "isn't".

    Otherwise, coming to that conclusion isn't hard:
    When one's actions are not based on a model that is based on outside reality,
    then they are inferior to those based on a model that is.
    Inferior, means opportunities not taken, and doing damage not avoided.

    Additionally, the brain wants reality and the own model to be the same. Because that is required, to predict the future from the current state, so one can actually work towards a goal. But for extroverted (like Abrahamic) religious schizophrenia, who can't give up the inner model, because it is the only thing that keeps them going and able to accept the world, that means: Force reality to conform to the inner delusion.
    And I don’t have to explain why that is harmful aka bad, do I?

    Now don't get me wrong: That doesn't mean that people who are ill with it, are worse people, than somebody who has broken legs is a worse person. It's just an illness. The illness is what’s harmful. They wouldn't be harmful without it.
    And the problem is, that as long as we don't see it as harmful, religious and sane people think they have to despise each other.

    Can we just note that it is bad, but the people who have it aren't?
    So that we can get into a mindset, where we can talk about how to fix it?

  53. A greater evil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sweet, sweet boy pussy in need of reaming detected.

    Instantiating mercy fuck protocol.

  54. What OP really meant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, to be fair, if you are gay, looking to get married and be happy, Google is evil.

    FTFY

  55. Male Big horned sheep are almost exclusively homos by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Male big horn sheep live away from females and have sex with each other. When females want sex they go to the males and act Male by mounting them. Only then will the males mount them back. Males who donâ(TM)t like to be mounted go to stay with the females, and donâ(TM)t mount at all.

    Homosexuality is not a barrier to reproduction per se, but does seem to make the drag scene much, much cooler.

  56. But what about for cultural bias word analysis? by Titanek · · Score: 1

    For linguistics studies, having access to unedited word scores in the various source languages could grant an interesting glimpse into cultural bias. Maybe queries such as swedish:homosexual, portuguese:homosexual and USenglish:homosexual would score differently, and results that were closer to 0 than to -1 than other query results for the same word in other languages could be indicative of less bias against that word.

  57. Re: Male Big horned sheep are almost exclusively h by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry, too implausible, just don't believe it. NEXT!

  58. Conversely, what does the AI like? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tell us, what are it's guilty pleasures and perversions? What gets it off? Inquiring minds want to know.

  59. Junk in Junk out by tomxor · · Score: 2

    It is not an "artificial intelligence", it is a tool built to analyse text, trained on a mass of text written by biased humans. Now if it had something resembling a conscience or critical thinking it might have a chance at identifying and balancing prejudice to defend it's "sentiment" weighting, but right now it's a "dumb" (in the AI sense) tool... So if it's biased against "Jews" and "gays", all it tells us is on average the humans who wrote the training data are biased against "gays" and "Jews".

  60. Stop with the politics by iampiti · · Score: 1

    If they modify their AI code with politics it'll be useless at solving real world problems

    1. Re:Stop with the politics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure if catering to people who express their mistrust of gays, jews, whatever, loudly will help solve real world problems either.

  61. instead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... they should admit the whole concept is flawed. AI - or rather what google is passing as AI - does not have the context, education and human experience to perform many of tasks they want. It's fine if it is research, but to create products on something like this is madness.

    Unfortunately, google has become a synonym for not-engineering, for producing 'solutions' that only work in a narrow scope of inputs, catastrophically failing elsewhere, while not really having customer services for those 'rare' cases when their algorighms show their inherent stupidity.

    Not to mention privacy - they have invented a browser that wants you to sign in?!??!! Their phones stalk you by default - recording all your activity and location. It's the most spread malware on the planet...

    And now,google self-driving cars. yeah, right

  62. Well ya faggots, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it is bad. Get over it twinks.

  63. This is what's bad by reboot246 · · Score: 1

    Being told by a corporation what is good or bad is what's really bad. Humans will never agree about the "goodness" or "badness" of anything. Having AI do it doesn't make it any better.

  64. Good Fixed It (not) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you go to their public facing API, all references to gay, jew, muslim, christian, etc. give a sentiment score of 0. That have manually overridden the algorithm to be PC.

  65. I've been waiting for this day by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where "the AI" harbors beliefs that are unacceptable to PC-obsessed libtards.

  66. Kinda like... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...spoiled athletes losing jobs and endorsements for disrespecting our country, amirite?

    1. Re:Kinda like... by kilfarsnar · · Score: 0

      ...spoiled athletes losing jobs and endorsements for disrespecting our country, amirite?

      LOL, you probably don't even know the real reason those athletes are protesting. They have been accused of disrespecting the country, or the flag, or the troops, or whatever to deflect from their actual point: that black people continue to be threatened by racist policing in this country.

      Black athletes' money or status won't protect them from a jumpy officer at a traffic stop. I assume you think that issue is bullshit. Though that does make me wonder why you think you are in a better position than they are to know what should be an issue to them. But regardless, they are not simply disrespecting the country. And if they were, it would be because the country, in its policies and attitudes, continues to disrespect them and people who look like them.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
  67. so when it is right it isnt right? by Me303 · · Score: 0

    are they really saying that the api is wrong? how it can be wrong if it thinks or calculate these things logically? so because of sick time what we living, they go and change these answers just because time what we living? couople of years back, this isnt be anything more than good laughs.

    --
    www.granstrom.fi
  68. Poor "science" writing at its worst... by Timothy2.0 · · Score: 1

    Poor writing about science-related things makes for a poor message. The article gives the suggestion that Google's at fault for the negative perception of its sentiment analyzer, which tells me the reporter, and most laypeople, have no idea how these forms of AI work. That, in itself, isn't necessarily a problem, but it shows that the tone of an article can manipulate the reader in inappropriate ways.

    These kinds of classification routines are based on the training of a given dataset. As such, how the information in that dataset is structures will influence the resulting trained model. Google didn't set out to craft a bigoted sentiment analyzer; the analyzer simply reached that conclusion based on the, likely very large, dataset Google used to train the API. Looking at how people use language on the Internet, I'm not surprised at all by the outcome. A similar outcome can be seen in the chatbot created by Microsoft that ended up a dumpster fire within 24 hours. Granted, the training methods may be different between the two, the nature of the underlying dataset, language use (primarily on the Internet) are very similar.

    What Google did was create a sentiment analyzer based on how the average person uses language. If that means certain negative sentiment is elicited from terms like "Jew" or "homosexual", that speaks far more about the underlying dataset and less about the sentiment analyzer.

    1. Re:Poor "science" writing at its worst... by eepok · · Score: 1

      Correct. Here's what the article headline/thesis should have been: "Anti-Semitism and Homophobia So Prevalent Online, Google's Sentiment Analyzer Finds Being Jewish/Gay Bad".

  69. Objectively bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wait. Being gay is objectively bad. It is different from the norm. It is challenged in the bible and quran.

    Sentiment mirrors cultural and physiological reality.

    8% of the population is biologically gay. 4% self describe as gay. So 4% are living a heterosexual lifestyle despite biology. I do not have stats on how many heterosexuals live a homosexual lifestyle.

  70. Poison Mortar to build apps to make LIFE SUCK by TheRealHocusLocus · · Score: 1

    For Entertainment Purposes Only... Ahh... the bane of the 21st century, where Internet connectivity permits corporate and entrepreneurial developers to forget that

    They are 'building' things that can only exist while the electricity is on, stock market is up, the project is in that cherished 'Google Beta' phase where infinite wonders are available as an API (for free!) and monetization is a distant worry. Some day predatory monetization (or project abandonment and shutdown) will appear and we will pretend it is a 'new crisis', something no one could have possibly foreseen. And unlike the shrink-wrapped self-contained software of yesterday, when the music stops you will NOT be left with a product that is functional to any extent, no installed customer bases to maintain... you can just flee.

    No, cloud API snake oil is not a firm foundation to build a civilization upon. With it you can only build disasters waiting to happen. How we laughed as the centralized service bureaus of yesterday (ahem, IBM) tried to convince us that computing power on the desktop was irrelevant, that application software should be in the hands of trained professionals who maintain and evolve it in an undisclosed central location... how we rebelled to the necessity to batch traditional processes like payroll (that had been meticulously maintained in paper ledgers), crank up the modem to perform cycles 'of data entry' and 'centralized processing' and finally 'report generation'.

    But now the centralized Service Bureau is baaaack! And it's propped up by illusions of solvency and foundation. If you don't need to log in every time it's not a Service Bureau. If you don't need to pay (today) it's free. If the wire was already there (Internet) it needs no wires. If the provider's logo need not appear on the screen it's entirely ours. If they're still in Beta they can handle an infinite amount of transactions. No worries! Even after monetization it's a manageable business expense, no worries!

    I can imagine Dilbert's Boss poking his head in and asking, "Where is this Google API we are paying dearly for. I want to see it." When shown a slick web app he blusters, "That is just what it looks like to the customer. Do you think I'm stupid? I want to see the thing itself." And the next few frames has Wally and other employees tapping at their workstations a moment and replying, "Not here. Must be in [other department] today, try there." Everyone is passing the ball to the next, until the Boss shows up at Dilbert's desk. Dilbert, sizing up the situation and knowing that he cannot show the Boss the actual thing he has purchased, points to a paperweight on the desk. "It's there." He says. The Boss picks it up and examines it. "It's beautiful. But it's not connected to anything." "Of course." Dilbert says not missing a beat. "It's wireless."

    These neural net apps fail on privacy too, which is a big who'da thunk it. Voice assistants transmitting room conversation, smart TV's bugging your house, APIs to evaluate comment text (the current topic) transmitted en masse to central Service Bureaus for 'proprietary analysis'. Whether you balk on privacy alone or the ludicrously unsustainable idea that if it catches on you'll be pipelining zigabytes of content their way on a regular basis... what's missing is the developer who says, "You know, sooner or later in some way or another this will become a bad idea."

    And finally we have a Service Bureau neural-net-for-rent that claims to some day understand humans. Even when if is trained to detect sarcasm (the greatest literary spice) it will be the simplest kind of gainsaying sarcasm and humans will delight in deceiving it. Of course you'll draw lines (with set parameters) for gatekeeping, and humans will delight in misspelling words or using MEME-speak or embedding things in images to say what they intended to say, anyway. And in place of an all-human discussion with the occasional troll or bully, there will be this massive

    --
    <blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
  71. sure it is at list for me... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    boya

  72. silent majority? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most people that do not themselves exhibit the trait that's being argued-against by the noisy minority don't usually express opinions on it, so they're a hole in the data that needs to be accounted for. Unfortunately it's a lot easier to interpret based on what has been said than what has not been said.

    This uses exactly the "silent majority" argument normally used to propagate conservative "Christian" views. Ironic that being used here to deny that the US just might be homophobic and antisemitic.

  73. Took an AI to figure that? by p51d007 · · Score: 0

    It's a mental illness. Always has been, always will be, regardless to the political correctness garbage.

    1. Re:Took an AI to figure that? by eaglesrule · · Score: 1

      It's a mental illness. Always has been, always will be, regardless to the political correctness garbage.

      It's part of human nature, always has been, always will be, regardless. Unless you are actually more qualified to make that determination than the body of the American Psychiatric Association which completely removed homosexuality from The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

      Where actual mental illness comes into play is depression as a result of feelings of persecution and social isolation, leading to a significant increase in suicide and drug abuse. Depression, and reduced feelings of self worth, that manifest because of their environment in which you help provide an example.

      Interestingly, in reading on the topic I found this which I think helps me understand your point of view.

      Psychopathy, sometimes considered synonymous with sociopathy, is traditionally defined as a personality disorder[1] characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, egotistical traits.

  74. Blame weev and his GNAA by tepples · · Score: 1

    really, Slashdot? One instance of [the N word] and I hit the lameness filter?

    It has more to do with past trends of $#!+posting by the fan club for a 1992 Danish blaxplotation film.

  75. reality by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's almost like objective, quantifiable reality and feel-good political correctness are fundamentally at odds with each other.

    No, it's much more like objective, quantifiable reality is at odds with the US not being homophobic and antisemitic. (OK, I'll give you that it's consistant with Google wanting to see the US as feel-good PC).

  76. Computers never lie by KlomDark · · Score: 1

    Please bow before our new superior morality overlords - they are just calling it as they see it.

  77. Illogical to expect logical machine to be PC by biggaijin · · Score: 1

    One goal of AI is to mimic human thought and behavior in a machine. The problem is, machines tend to be consistent and logical. Therefore. it is not logical to expect them to conform to rules of political correctness that are fundamentally illogical and change intermittently in both content and application.

  78. Obligatory All In The Family Reference by hyades1 · · Score: 1

    Archie Bunker to Sammy Davis Junior:

    "You being colored, well, I know you had no choice in that. But whatever made you turn Jew?"

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  79. Re:Google's AI is smarter than most by JackieBrown · · Score: 1

    Gay is neither good or bad.

    "Gay" — as the opposite of "sad" — is good.

    "Homosexual" is bad. No doubt about it. For all the denials and "pride" parades, it is not a good thing to be. Something to cope with, to learn to accept, to enjoy life despite of.

    Well said

  80. Is it wrong to wear mixed-fiber clothing? by tepples · · Score: 1

    And many conservatives would be fine with the Sharia of Moses being the law in the US.

    I'd like to see how they'd attempt to answer the following questions to their constituents:

    Does God require a low-fat diet? (Lev 3:17)
    Does eating blood sausage merit exile? (Gen 9:4; Lev 17:10)
    Is it wrong to wear mixed-fiber clothing? (Lev 19:19)
    Is it wrong for a man to trim his beard? (Lev 19:27)
    Jesus has a tattoo (Rev 19:16) in violation of God's law. (Lev 19:28) On what grounds does he get an exception?
    Is sex with a woman on her period an abomination? (Lev 20:18)
    Does working on Sunday merit the death penalty? (Num 15:32)
    If a virgin woman's hymen doesn't bleed her first time she has sex, should she be punished? (Deut 22:20)
    If a man rapes a woman who's engaged, and it happens in a city, should she be punished too? (Lev 19:20; Deut 22:24)
    My parents were not married. Am I excluded from participation in public discourse? (Deut 23:2)

    And even the atheists would agree that some of the commandments are good laws.

    Agreed.

    Except for that bit about the Sabbath, the Ten Commandments strongly resemble the Seven Laws of Noah given in the Talmud. As Noah Lamechsson is the Y-chromosomal most recent common ancestor in the mythology of Judaism and Christianity, the laws of Noah are seen as binding on all humankind, even though the 613 commandments of Moses are binding only on the Jewish people. I guess similarity to the laws of Noah might be good reason to separate the Ten from the other 603.

    Hmmm... "Jewish"... I seem to remember a past controversy where "Jewish" and "Jews" were rated as more positive than "Jew", causing Google to have to place an ad at the top of certain search results disclaiming responsibility for the views of third parties.

  81. Missing the Obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The real problem is that people are upset that objective analysis of facts results in conclusions that conflict with the conclusions they derive through feeling.

  82. Depends on the training data? by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    Who was it again that pointed their AI at Urban Dictionary, resulting in their AI being so potty-mouthed, racist, sexist, everything-ist, that they had to pull the plug?

  83. I'm a jew and yes it is negative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm a jew by birth, atheist by choice. And I can attest that yes it is a negative feeling to be a jew. So it's not wrong.

  84. 'Bad' literally used to mean 'effemminate man' by GargamelSpaceman · · Score: 1

    Disclaimer: I don't care if your're gay.

    bad (adj.)
    c. 1300, "inadequate, unsatisfactory, worthless; unfortunate;" late 14c., "wicked, evil, vicious; counterfeit;" from 13c. in surnames (William Badde, Petri Badde, Asketinus Baddecheese, Rads Badinteheved). Rare before 1400, and evil was more common until c. 1700 as the ordinary antithesis of good. It has no apparent relatives in other languages.* Possibly from Old English derogatory term bæddel and its diminutive bædling "effeminate man, hermaphrodite, pederast," which probably are related to bædan "to defile."

    So basically bad meant what 'gay' does now more or less.

    And Gay once meant happy.

    --
    ...
  85. Take back our words! by Filter · · Score: 1

    Of all the times I have used the word 'gay', almost always I meant 'some degree of bad', I rarely meant 'homosexual' and almost never meant 'happy'. When did the sexual connotation of the word begin and why is that the overriding meaning now. Many words have multiple meanings, the context is key.

    --

    "better ways of doing things eventually just replace the inferior things" - Linus Torvalds 09-08-07

    1. Re:Take back our words! by hackel · · Score: 1

      There is absolutely no circumstance in which a decent human being would use the word "gay" to mean "some degree of bad." It is a clear and direct indicator that the person using it is an asshole. Without the sexual orientation definition, the word means happy. That's it. It has NEVER meant "bad' or negative in any way. Those who use it in a negative way are directly attacking homosexuals. This is simply a fact. It's exactly the same as how we have turned "nig*er" from simply meaning black to something not just derogatory, but actually violent.

    2. Re:Take back our words! by eaglesrule · · Score: 1

      Bear in mind that in the past, and even today in some areas, being homosexual was/is a criminal offense with serious repercussions. Language adapts to these situations where to outright refer to someone as homosexual would be akin to accusing them of a capitol offense, and polite society finds ways to be more subtle and suggestive.

      Why 'gay' is the overriding moniker now is, personal opinion, because it lacks the negative connotations that comes with 'queer' and 'fag' and is less clinical than 'homosexual' and its abbreviation, homo. It is the derivative of 'gaiety' which in its history referred to a condition of being carefree and uninhibited, which is suitable when one is considered an outsider of societal norms.

      Lastly, the shift to use gay as a pejorative isn't to be unexpected from juviniles and other shallow thinkers. As culture shifts in time, and those irrevocably conditioned to be bigoted, inconsiderate, borderline psycopaths die off for the betterment of man kind, I would expect the word to return to its more neutral meaning of merely describing a person's sexuality.

  86. but isn't it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Overall in society I think that it is a pretty fair assumption that being gay is generally looked upon in a negative way. Sure some people swing that way and a few others don't have a negative attitude towards them, but the vast majority don't want to hear about them, best if kept in the closet then to force your values on others.

  87. Being gay is a 50% subtraction of life by WCMI92 · · Score: 1

    For that reason alone it should be discouraged.

    --
    Corporatism != Free Market
    1. Re:Being gay is a 50% subtraction of life by hackel · · Score: 1

      Right, because it's not like we have enough people on this planet or anything...

  88. Expression of Reality by hackel · · Score: 1

    I'm confused. Isn't the fact that the AI determined this based on human user input simply a reflection of the sad state of our society, and not the AI itself? Surely no one programmed the AI to automatically regard minority attributes as negative. Unless I'm misinterpreting this, Google shouldn't be apologizing. The human race should. The great thing about an AI is that you can easily determine what it really "thinks," unlike human beings which conveniently hide it behind a friendly façade (well, at least they used to before Trumpism took over).

    1. Re:Expression of Reality by eaglesrule · · Score: 1

      I agree, Google shouldn't be apologizing in this case. What concerns me is when institutions with access to massive amounts of personal data is able to utilize a sufficient amount of computational ability to begin shaping society as they see fit, 'for the greater good' as they imagine it. We like to think that the days of burning people on the stake for the crime of heresy and blasphemy was behind us, but it seems its modern day equivalent looms ahead.

    2. Re:Expression of Reality by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Another example of bigotry in, bigotry out with AI.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  89. Re:Google's AI is smarter than most by dywolf · · Score: 1

    bigots gonna bigot

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  90. So there were no children by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    in the whole city? There was nobody who was redeemable? Do we believe that being a skin flit deserves death? Of course we don't.

    Also, that's not how most preachers sell it. What's written in the bible isn't nearly as important as what people _think_ is written in the bible.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:So there were no children by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I'm not trying to sell Bibles here, just noting what it says.

      Most Christians seem to think that the sin of Sodom was anal or homosexual sex, despite the fact that the Bible specifies what the sin was. It's occasionally fun to bring things like that up around Christians with attitudes I don't like.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  91. Re: Male Big horned sheep are almost exclusively by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Biological Exuburance by Bruce Bagemihl, Page 407, second paragraph. Look under bighorned sheep.

    Itâ(TM)s well documented. Nature doesnâ(TM)t care about your concepts of plausibility,

  92. Well..... by MerlTurkin · · Score: 1

    I was gonna tell a gay joke, butt fuck it.

  93. Garbage In by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Garbage Out

    This is the problem with firing people once they reach the ripe old age of 30 -- you think you've found something earth-shatteringly unique when, in reality, you've just discovered a concept that generations of people before you have.

  94. We use WAY too many useless labels. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Time to stop.

    1. Re:We use WAY too many useless labels. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's called over-labeling.

  95. Electric Parrot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's at least part of the danger - their electric parrot goes on the internet, listens to all the people with nothing better to do than squawk on the 'net, then amplifies them. And, because it's electric, it gets seen as somehow righter and more infallible than people. And an amplifying vicious cycle is created.