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New Science Suggests the Ocean Could Rise More -- and Faster -- Than We Thought (washingtonpost.com)
Chris Mooney, writing for the Washington Post: Climate change could lead to sea level rises that are larger, and happen more rapidly, than previously thought, according to a trio of new studies that reflect mounting concerns about the stability of polar ice. In one case, the research suggests that previous high end projections (PDF) for sea level rise by the year 2100 -- a little over three feet -- could be too low, substituting numbers as high as six feet at the extreme if the world continues to burn large volumes of fossil fuels throughout the century (Editor's note: the link could be paywalled). "We have the potential to have much more sea level rise under high emissions scenarios," said Alexander Nauels, a researcher at the University of Melbourne in Australia who led one of the three studies. His work, co-authored with researchers at institutions in Austria, Switzerland, and Germany, was published Thursday in Environmental Research Letters. The results comprise both novel scientific observations -- based on high resolution seafloor imaging techniques that give a new window on past sea level events -- and new modeling techniques based on a better understanding of Antarctic ice. Further reading: Sea levels to rise 1.3m unless coal power ends by 2050, report says (The Guardian).
Goodbye Florida. I will miss you.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
I'm pretty damn sure that the world ended in 2015 just like they predicted.
https://www.mrctv.org/videos/f...
If you don't believe that New York was underwater 24/7/365 BECAUSE CLIMATE CHANGE they clearly you are a science denier.
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
Due to a typical but very strange bit of human psychology, I both have difficulty believing the world will actually change significantly in my lifetime while simultaneously wanting to see some kind of apocalypse (under the assumption I somehow manage to survive and thrive post-apocalypse).
I mean, it's worth the end of the world as we know it just to be able to gloat to the survivors that I was right, isn't it?
...it's overpriced, it's over-hyped. Beach property, near the sea, near the beach, near a pond - and cost 3-10 times as much as a normal property. You're investing badly, and you're gonna find out the hard way.
I already knew this when I moved from Denmark to another country (several Danish cities is suffering from the ocean eating up the ground, and houses are constantly falling into the sea when the ground gets eaten up by the sea). I now live 80m above sea level - and 10 times cheaper, with the same solid building.
To quote Nelson from the Simpsons -> "Ha haa!".
What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
Yeah! And didn't science say that man could never fly or go in space? Because science never gets better and past theories will always be right forever!
#DeleteFacebook
Who told you that? Serious question.
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
Early projections had wide uncertainties, which means that the upper limits based on some projection technique could be quite eye popping. However so far as I know there was never any widely held scientific opinion that there would be a 3m rise by 2020. More typical projections from about 20 years ago were talking about maybe 12 cm against an 1800s baseline, which turn out to be pretty accurate. However the upper range was on the order of 30 cm and the lower showed an actual decline to pre-20th century levels by 2020 -- which goes to show there was still considerable uncertainty.
Estimates from back in the mid 90s were for a 40cm to 65cm rise by 2100, mainly based on thermal expansion. That's a fairly safe assumption: warmer atmosphere = warmer ocean = more ocean volume.
Now there have been hypothetical scenarios proposed in which sea level could rise rapidly. Obviously those have not happened ... yet. But as they are based on certain discrete and unpredictable events that they haven't happened is not evidence that they won't happen. These events are not particularly exotic in terms of the Earth's climate history, but would be unprecedented in recorded human history.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Who told you that? Serious question.
Al Gore?
[...Runs and hides...]
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
Except the price has only gone up. Yes, longterm, like say, the year 2100, beachfront property will have been a bad investment. But for now, you can buy it, enjoy the beach, then sell in ten years for a nice profit.
So these predictions are based on events that haven't happened. Got it...
That is rather entailed in the world "prediction".
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
And none of those were mainstream positions that had scientific consensus. You've confused yourself by taking many different views and bundling them together as a single mind. It's entirely possible for there to be 10 different wrong views on climate change but still end up with climate change being real.
The stupidity never ends with you guys does it?
Seriously, man: there are actual climate changes that we have to seriously cope with. That isn't being helped by alarmist bullshittery like this.
Then why are you posting alarmist bullshittery links?
I don't respond to AC's.
Al Gore In 2005: "Within the decade, there will be no more snows of Kilimanjaro." Kilimanjaro In 2015
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Pretty much this.
It's not just wealthy western nations. We're actually making renewable energy sources cheaper than coal and gas--unsubsidized--by sheer technical progress. That's always been the problem: burning fossile fuel might or might not be causing something called "Climate Change"--a point of contention in political discussions--but you can't really do anything about it because making your $THING more-expensive means people get $THING from dirty-coal high-emissions import instead. US becomes poorer by going to Solar 30 years ago, China ramps up production and turns the Asian continent into one giant black cloud.
We took a third option and just tightened up emissions standards as technology became available to do so without compromising our economy. The Republicans complained, the Democrats took a careful hand, and the really left-wing liberals with no concept of anything just screamed that it wasn't enough. That's the best you can do.
Well, it was.
Like you noticed: the really low-emissions energy tech is just plain taking over. It's more viable economically now, and so will come into play without compromising our economy. Leading up to this, we had an offset program where solar generation produced credits which you could sell on the open market in a cap-and-trade scheme; and suddenly solar is so cheap that SRECs trade for $20 instead of $200. A massive amount of capacity sprung up in two years, and more is coming.
I want to preserve our agricultural land by moving off traditional farm subsidies and onto a scheme where we subsidize farmers to lay non-permanent Solar installation, and reduce the subsidy as the solar installation starts generating a profit. Need the ag land again? Get a crew to unbolt the panels, stack them in a nearby shed, pull up the racks, dismantle, store, and you have ag land. Actually tearing down a city costs more than our GDP; removing a non-fixed solar installation is a cheap job.
That will save the taxpayer the cost of farm subsidies; protect our agricultural reserve land from permanent destruction by urban development; and derive useful economic productivity from that land area--you know, land area in a place with lots of sun, because a farm is basically a solar food generation operation--instead of just waste expense trying to prevent its development. Because that economic productivity is electricity, it offsets our need for mercury-belching coal plants.
Leading-edge recouperating CAES--the kind that stores heat and uses it to expand the tanks, not the natural gas booster kind--will become common tech soon enough. It's cheaper than batteries, and hasn't taken off because we keep trying to use natural caves as compression tanks--folks keep selecting sandstone caverns, then finding out that won't work. Going to have to build an actual sealed storage tank underground. Batteries will still be more-expensive, but not 300x more-expensive; even so, hundred-million-dollar-scale R&D tech doesn't just happen at a fast pace, even with those kinds of potential profits, and with the technology pretty much ready-to-go. It's weird to see something that's current-generation technology held back by... well, technology. Paradox.
Put the two together and you get a bona fide solar grid for basically nothing. I'm so glad there are only 50,000 coal workers in the US, because they're right in the path of progress and a bigger industry would be a recession waiting to happen. We'll bleed the coal mining industry slowly, not overnight; and my Universal Dividend should help hold these people up and rebuild their local economies as we pick them apart. One can only hope--we are definitely going to profit from their loss, and we owe them for that.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
Maybe Yellowstone will kill us all first.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
Al Gore in "An Inconvenient Truth" said that a collapse of a major ice sheet in Greenland or West Antarctica could raise sea levels by 20 feet "in the near future". The near future has not yet passed and neither ice sheet has melted yet so the jury is still out on that one.
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
Yeah! And didn't science say that man could never fly or go in space? Because science never gets better and past theories will always be right forever!
I don't think anyone with a brain ever said those things. We saw birds flying all the time. It was just a matter of weight and power.
We saw the moon and later were able to measure its distance. It was just a matter of escape velocity.
What next? Flat Earth? Sound barrier? People like to make false attributions about claims that were never seriously made. They do well in shitty chain emails.
Answer this:
Where is the science that says the current global average temperature is optimal?
It isn't "optimal". It is, however, what we have built our society's infrastructure around, and what the Earth's ecology has adapted to.
We could rebuild our infrastructure to a different temperature. It will have a cost. The Earth's ecology can adapt to a different set of climates. It will take time, and result in some amount of species loss, but inside of ten thousand years or so, they'd adapt.
It's only the short term-- the next few centuries-- that would be hard.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Yeah, now if the world will just embrace the idea of inland ports.....
Optimal for what? If you're saying "optimal for large scale civilization heavily reliant on specific climactic conditions for large-scale land-based agriculture and complimentary ocean food sources", then I'd say the post-Glacial epoch is pretty damned optimal. Yes, bacterial mats and Archae populations and cockroaches may have a wider window of optimal conditions, but the capacity to support large concentrations of humans is a good deal narrower.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
And I live by the river
How many different studies will we have that don't agree about what's happening before we realize that we don't really know?
Somebody needs to make a study about how many *different* conclusions have been made in the last 20 years and how those studies have faired when compared to reality. I'm just going to guess that two things are true. 1. The ones the press cover and are most often cited by activists are the most inaccurate over time. And 2. Not one study, if old enough to verify, shows the dire consequences we are routinely told about.
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
People with money and power really do.
I think you are confusing the pursuit of short term gains with long term value. They are not the same.
And none of those were mainstream positions that had scientific consensus. You've confused yourself by taking many different views and bundling them together as a single mind. It's entirely possible for there to be 10 different wrong views on climate change but still end up with climate change being real.
You want him to obey the consensus because it's a consensus but ignore the consensus because the people contributing to it are routinely proven to be hilariously incorrect?
If people with power and money REALLY THOUGHT anything like this sea level alarmism was true, you would absolutely see this priced into seafront real estate prices. But they just continue to climb.
We also WOULDN'T see pro-natalist policies.
For instance: importing large numbers low-income people from countries with cultures that encourage large families and giving them jobs and child support which enables them to have LARGER families and an income sufficient for all the kids to drive gas-guzzlers and otherwise consume more goods that are produced by carbon dioxide emitting processes and/or processes powered by carbon dioxide emitting utilities.
If the politicians REALLY believed the climate-change hype, they'd close the borders. Since they don't, it looks more like they think it's a convenient excuse to increase their power (by writing laws and regulations) and wealth (by rent-seeking schemes like carbon-credit exchanges).
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
They already have. Insurance actuaries have been factoring in climactic effects for years now. Every time you buy house or property insurance, you're paying into the "AGW Fund".
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The free market is on track
And this is what lies behind the manufactured panic. Opportunities to leverage climate change as a mechanism for wealth transfer are disappearing. Coal is dying not due to regulation but because natural gas is so cheap. And the same will happen with wind and solar. Once the technology matures, it will replace fossil fuels. Opportunities for all the central planning committees are vanishing fast.
Have gnu, will travel.
And that's why I keep all my money in tulip bulbs, internet companies that had IPOs in 1999, and real estate I purchased in 2007.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Here it is more recently, just about free of snow.
https://www.google.com/maps/pl...
I'm not sure when the image is from, but right now it's spring in Africa with summer coming up. It will probably be snow free at some point during their summer.
And missing the date by a couple of years for something like that, that's rather accurate in my opinion.
BlameBillCosby.com
"New computer modeling suggests the Arctic Ocean may be nearly ice-free in summer as early as 2014, Al Gore said today at the U.N. climate conference in Copenhagen."
Predictability and reproducible are required for "Science". This is prophecy, and it belongs in the Religion section of Barnes and Noble. Inconvenient that the Truth isn't what has been prophesied by the likes of Al Gore.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Prediction or Prophecy?
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
It's entirely possible for there to be 10 different wrong views on climate change...
You want him to... ignore the consensus because the people contributing to it are routinely proven to be hilariously incorrect?
10 different wrong views do not make a consensus. This does.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
New Science Suggests the Ocean Could Rise More -- and Faster -- Than We Thought
Maybe. Possibly.
But aren't we already suppose to be under ten feet of water?
Huh? Where did you get that? Nobody predicted ten feet-- over three meters!-- of sea level rise by 2017.
The very first IPCC report-- back in 1990--predicted "an average rate of global mean sea level rise of about 6 cm per decade over the next century (with an uncertainty range of 3 – 10 cm per decade), mainly due to thermal expansion of the oceans and the melting of some land ice. The predicted rise is about 20 cm ... by 2030, and 65 cm by the end of the next century."
The most recent (5th, 2014) report (here https://www.ipcc.ch/pdf/assess... ) says 25 cm to 70 cm by 2100. (That's the one that this news item is reacting to).
Nobody predicted 10 feet by 2017-- you should look back and find who told you that had been the prediction and never believe them again.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
New Science Suggests the Ocean Could Rise More -- and Faster -- Than We Thought
Maybe. Possibly.
But aren't we already suppose to be under ten feet of water?
I don't know what you suppose, but the first IPCC report, published 1990, said "For the IPCC Business-as-Usual scenario at year 2030 global-mean sea level is 8-29 cm higher than today, with a best-estimate of 18 cm. At the year 2070, the rise is 21-71 cm, with a best-estimate of 44 cm." (page 261) According to NASA satellite data, we are at ~8.5cm since 1990 (and the IPCC AR5 has similar results (SPM page 11)) We have 13 years at (currently) ~3.5mm/year left, so we probably will end up at about 14cm, well within the uncertainty interval, and not far from the best estimate - and very far from the 10 feet you have apparently heard from some crap source.
Stephan
That phrase "as early as"--what does it mean, exactly? If you call this a "prediction"-- what did it predict, and how can you tell whether it is accurate?
Here's a good discussion: https://www.carbonbrief.org/gu...
And here's a nice one with a pretty graphic visualization: http://sciencenordic.com/when-...
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
https://www.nationalgeographic...
Umm, with the amount of ice that Antarctica is shedding, you might want to rethink that.
"Truth is what works" -- William James "It works!!" -- o-dark-AM comment
That's true, we now know that the Arctic is on track to be ice-free by about the end of the century. But I'm not sure how that helps anyone.
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
And none of those were mainstream positions that had scientific consensus. You've confused yourself by taking many different views and bundling them together as a single mind. It's entirely possible for there to be 10 different wrong views on climate change but still end up with climate change being real.
You want him to obey the consensus because it's a consensus but ignore the consensus because the people contributing to it are routinely proven to be hilariously incorrect?
I would call "scientific consensus" as incorporating "stuff that is said by actual scientists." So, yes, I'd indeed say "ignore the consensus" when by that you mean stuff not said by actual scientists in actual scientific publications. Not because it is "hilariously incorrect" but because it's not the scientific consensus, it's the result of people trolling the internet to find the most-wrong thing ever said by non-scientists so they can say "look at how wrong they were".
The IPCC reports are a good place to look for a summary of the actual consensus (with references to the actual scientific literature)-- try this one: http://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar5/
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
That's why we invented Agriculture and greenhouses. We will adapt and it will get easier as it gets harder.
That's the problem. Neither question is being asked. Instead, it is being assumed that any change is bad.
We know for a fact now that warming runaway is simply not a valid theory
On what basis do you claim that?
You have no idea if/when the perma frost is thawing and if that releases enough CH4 to cause a runaway effect.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Until Republicans are screaming "helbb helbb!" with water up to their noses, they won't believe and won't do squat about it.
Table-ized A.I.
Prophecy in the biblical sense usually entails telling truths people in authority don't want to hear, rather than predictions per se.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
So Al Gore was wrong by 5 or 10 years?
So you completely missed his point?
turp182 posted this as answer to you: https://www.google.com/maps/pl...
Hint: look at the damn picture. When the ice cap is gone ... all the green area around the mountain will be desert.
Kilimanjaro is watering (via aqueducts thousands of years old) areas 100ds of km away. Everything there will simply be dead
Wo the funk cares if Al Gore missed the date by 5 or 10 years?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Well, one of the scenarios I'm referring to is the collapse of a major land-based ice sheet like Greenland or Antarctica. At present evidence does not point to any imminent dramatic collapse in Greenland, although it will contribute somewhat to sea level rise. Antarctica is more of an open question.
In any case we have no firm basis to predict that Antarctica will do anything dramatic in the next 80 years, but there is evidence that it may contribute at higher rates than it is now.
As things stand, we aren't looking at the end of civilization by a long shot -- although a certain mentality needs that kind of thing to get up and do something. What we are looking at is major expenses, probably in the trillions of dollars for the US.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
The term "near future" could be in interpreted many ways. If you go on a geographic time scale the near future could be 10 or 20 million years. In that time plate tectonics will certainly carry both Greenland and Antarctica in to warmer climate zone.
Thus Al Gore is 100% correct that the ice sheets will collapse and raise the sea level.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
The word you want is "trawling".
And you're committing the same error. You're appealing to authority and claiming a consensus while selectively choosing who is an authority or not and rejecting predictions as not being part of the consensus in order to construct the imagined authority and consensus.
It's like flipping a coin after collecting 10 guesses, then claiming the 5 incorrect guesses weren't part of the consensus and weren't from approved guessers.
Show me one single model that has predicted temperature changes accurately for 5 or more years.
We invented agriculture because the conditions were right to do so. We couldn't have invented agriculture in Eurasia a few thousand years earlier because, well, you know, a mile of fucking ice on top of much of what we would call arable land is not conducive to growing things.
And I'm sure we will adapt, it's just going to cost vast amounts of money and resources, whereas if we can actually stop puking greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere, well, you know what, it will cost a lot less money. It depends on how you feel about it. If you despise your grandchildren and want to kick them in the crotch as hard as possible, just keep defending the way we produce energy today. If you actually give a rats fuck about your grandchildren, then advocate for solutions that get us away from the hydrocarbon economy.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Until Republicans are screaming "helbb helbb!" with water up to their noses, they won't believe and won't do squat about it.
So lets be clear here. You want to blame all this on a relativity small group of people, compared to the rest of the worlds population. In a country where CO2 and other all pollutants are on a downward spiral. A small group of people that only got power in the last 10 months and odds are will not have power again in 2020.
You want to this while ignoring rising emissions in Africa, India, and China giving them a free pass?
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
I'm quite certain that people said the same thing about the U.S. housing market pre-2007 (if smart people were worried, everyone would be bailing already) and the tulip mania of 1636 as well. Just because a market isn't responding rationally doesn't mean necessarily mean there isn't a problem.
Many nuclear plants are quite close to the shore, and will have trouble operating during storms with an ocean level 1.8 meters higher than today.
If operators do not understand when the plant should be shut down for safety, we will have more Fukushima-style episodes.
AA Meeting Lesson: Recognizing that there is a problem is the first step in solving it. [paraphrased]
Table-ized A.I.
I agree.
You can add this one too. Its just basically the light blue line on the Nasa graph.
You can thank me later.
https://suyts.files.wordpress....
Heck we are already in a runaway warming situation, GISS temp data already proves it.
https://suyts.files.wordpress....
"May be" "nearly" "as early as" is how science works. "Will be" "exactly" "on the date" is how religious prophesy works. You've got them backwards.
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The direct effects of climate change aren't a threat to civilization. The indirect effects might be. We've already seen it contributing to wars, and that kind of money will cause social unrest, and we do have a lot of nuclear weapons lying around the planet including in some of the most vulnerable places like India and Pakistan.
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Inland ports aren't quite as silly as they sound. West Sacramento built a channel to become a deep water ship port.
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Yes, and they didn't have the technology to do it. Instead, they wasted billions on subsidies to their cronies.
Well, it certainly isn't a government policy win: government policy has utterly failed at making efficient electric a reality.
At the current rate that prices of solar power and other renewables are going down, I don't see anyone wanting to burn anything to produce electricity by the end of the next decade. Couple that with self driving electric taxis, trucks and other vehicles and you will see a much smaller carbon footprint per capita. It will not be international agreements but simple economics that will put an end to greenhouse gas emissions much faster than Trump and his Oil/Coal extracting buddies are prepared to deal with.
sigo ergo sum
The word you want is "trawling".
OK, you don't appreciate wordplay. Got it.
And you're committing the same error. You're appealing to authority and claiming a consensus while selectively choosing who is an authority or not and rejecting predictions as not being part of the consensus in order to construct the imagined authority and consensus.
In discussing a post about scientific consensus, I said that scientific consensus should be restricted to actual scientists, and you say that is "appealing to authority,"
Yeah, right.
It's like flipping a coin after collecting 10 guesses, then claiming the 5 incorrect guesses weren't part of the consensus and weren't from approved guessers.
Scientific consensus is consensus among scientists. I don't know why you think that's hard.
Show me one single model that has predicted temperature changes accurately for 5 or more years.
OK: Manabe and Wetherald 1967, the very first numerical model. Now show me one that is not accurate. Include the error bars, please.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
If that is so then you should recognize China first. China's CO2 emissions are several times that of the United States. China where they plan to build 700 new coal plants in the next few years.
Then you have India who's carbon emissions grew by 5% in 2015. In fact a 2016 report by the EIa shows that 68% of the worlds CO2 emissions will come from third world countries, and will largely be driven by China and India.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/05...
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
I think it really has gone by you, you have completely missed it. Nobody is trying to stop climate change, nobody is trying to stop sea level rise, nobody is trying to stop weather extremes driven by higher temperatures. That is a done deal, to late coastal regions are fucked already, too late to stop it, now they are just trying to gauge how bad it will be and well, pretty much that is it. No preparation, just let it happen and they will say, I told you so over and over again for as long as you live. They are at the stop being fuck wits trying to make it worse, when there is no sane reason to do so beyond one tiny segment of the economy, that can quite readily be replaced. You really do not understand, it is too fucking late already, low lying coastal cities are fucked, welcome to the party. We are just trying to warn people to avoid shyster trying to sell doomed underwater properties, not just residential but also commercial. It's like time to forget the carbon dioxide and start investing in water wings.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Doesn't work that way. Immigrants from large-family cultures have much smaller families when they're here.
Not so.
The migrants and sometimes the first generation of their offspring tend to have even larger families than in "the old country", as I described. Later generations MAY tend to smaller families - IF they assimilate. But ghettoization, public schools taught in non-English languages, social programs and their operators, identity politics, media-anointed "community leaders", and race-based urban gangs, all tend to maintain the old country culture (or a parody of it), including the birth rate.
By the way: My wife and I live in, and have been politically active in, a Silicon Valley city where more than half of the residents speak a non-English language at home. (That's predominantly Spanish, though there are a number of others.) We deal with this up-close-and-personal all the time.
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Where is the science that says the current global average temperature is optimal?
Literally in every agricultural study ever made. Oh wait you said optimal without defining optimal? Optimal for whom?
Our choices of where to live, how to survive there, where to grow food, how to get it around was based on the assumption that the climate is what it is, without plans to move population centres, production centres or anything elsewhere.
Where's the research that the current temperature is optimal? In every test, study and example conducted since humans stopped being nomads.
I don't think anyone with a brain ever said those things
You'd be wrong, depending on how far back in time you look.
Those new 700 plants are around the world including china. China also abandoned plans for building 100 power stations. Here's a more recent link from this year. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/0...
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
actually the industrial revolution started in Europe....
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
if its a report by a journalist (most have an agenda) then i ignore, if its by a scientist who can interpret the data correctly then i'll take notice
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
That's the wrong reply. You're supposed to point out that Al Gore isn't a climate scientist, etc. I can't help but notice the emotional nature of your "argument" and I see this a lot. When you see evidence that contradicts your position, you get angry because I'm violating the Holy scriptures of your secular religion. Like most believers, you can't deal with the fact that your high priest might be in error and react emotionally. Besides, doesn't your religion also say that humans are evil and the cause of all problems? It is suitable they should be punished by loss of their cropland. See? I can quote your Holy book chapter and verse.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
You act like that matters. They are 700 coal plants that where not there yesterday. They will add to the carbon emissions of the plant and it won't matter if they are in China or Timbuctoo. What matters is they are not US power plants.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
What does that have to do with anything?
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
i didn't say that but just pointing out they are not all in China as you said in your post. I'd prefer less coal any day of the week. China is also leading in Solar production and India is climbing up the table up too but as they are such large country/populations with huge swathes of poor people, it'll take quite a while to convert all to renewables. Just be lucky that their per capita usage is so low compared to some western countries
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
just dealing with this bigot and his comment "Everything you have you owe to America and the inventiveness of its people."
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Of course he is not a climate scientist.
He just repeated what he got told by other non climate scientist.
Everyone who takes a prediction with a concrete date, especially so short term, is a complete idiot.
No idea what your religion talk is about, I'm an atheist.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Do you even know the difference between the "Arctic Ocean being ice-free" and "a collapse of a major ice sheet in Greenland or West Antarctica could raise sea levels by 20 feet in the near future"?
Those two effects of global warming have a hugely different effect on the sea-level rise:
Since the Arctic Ocean's ice pack is already floating on the ocean, its melting does not affect the sea rise, although it CAN affect the buildup of global temperatures due to the fact that water reflects less and absorbs more of the insolation heat it receives than does the same area of sea ice.
On the other hand, the ice sheets of Greenland and Antarctica rest on land, and the addition of that melted water DOES create a rise in sea levels because it is effectively adding more water to the world's oceanic basins.
The two effects are connected because the increased heating of the Arctic Ocean's sea after it's ice pack has melted accelerates the melting of the Greenland and Antarctic ice sheets.
You can go back to sleep now, but your grandchildren WILL BE TESTED on this material.
PlaynBass
We're already way below what Al Gore claimed would happen by now. In fact I'd argue NOTHING has risen from 1985 on. It's a big wealth redistribution scheme and Al is making billions on people.
https://www.canadianunderwrite...
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
How is letting people who produce much less emissions than you do, produce a bit more, but still much less than you do "Giving them a free pass" ?
Aren't you just trying to grandfather in your free pass, by saying those people shouldn't be allowed to emit as much as you yourself already do?