Microsoft Is Working On a Foldable Device With a Focus On Pen and Digital Ink (windowscentral.com)

Microsoft is reportedly working on a foldable device with an emphasis on pen and digital-ink functionality that runs Windows 10, and it could be here as soon as next year. The company is looking to create a new category-defining mobile device that's aimed at an entirely new demographic, and that puts pen and digital inking at the forefront of the experience. Windows Central reports: At Windows Central, we've been covering two ongoing internal projects within Microsoft: CShell and Windows Core OS. Both of these projects play an important part in Microsoft's next rumored mobile device, which appears to be commonly referred to as "Andromeda" on the web. According to our sources, the Andromeda device is prototype hardware; a foldable tablet that runs Windows 10 built with Windows Core OS, along with CShell to take advantage of its foldable display. I imagine CShell plays an important roll in the foldable aspect of this device. Considering it's foldable, being a tablet doesn't mean much, and I'm told it's designed to be pocketable when folded, kind of like a phone. I make the comparison to a phone because I'm also hearing that it also has telephony capabilities, meaning you could replace your actual smartphone with it and still be able to take calls and texts. My sources make it clear, however, that this is not supposed to be a smartphone replacement but rather a device similar to the canceled "Microsoft Courier." In short, Andromeda is a digital pocket notebook.

Comments

almost preorder iphone x nov 3 instore pickup

[Anonymous Coward]

but then i at the last second i was like naaaa.... idk man just couldn't pull the trigger. fuck it, time for bed.

The pen is mightier

[Presence Eternal]

Why this technology might be even bigger than gesture based interfaces. "Just hold your hand up to the camera and close it into a fist. That's a left click!"

Re:The pen is mightier

[arglebargle_xiv]

They could call it Windows for Pen Computing.

Re:The pen is mightier

[Joce640k]

"Writing" could be done on smartphones.

But it isn't.

For a reason.

Re:The pen is mightier

[smallfries]

Have you explained that to the legion of fans that love the Galaxy Note? They will be so bitterly disappointed...

Personally I use an ipad-pro / pencil combination and it is exactly what I need about 50% of the time: loose division between written notes and diagrams. The other 50% of the time I have a laptop for a real shell/vi combo.

Hopefully microsoft do *something* with the courier concept because I want a cheap clone that runs linux...

Re:The pen is mightier

[Anonymous Coward]

They could call it Windows for Pen Computing.

That's good, because Windows is already much too easy for pen-testing.

Re:The pen is mightier

[Anonymous Coward]

Legion? You mean a tiny minority of people?

Re:The pen is mightier

[Anonymous Coward]

Woosh....

Windows for Pen Computing

What is old is new again.

Re:The pen is mightier

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, because most phones use shitty capacitive screens rather than decent resistive ones.

Cshell

[greenfruitsalad]

Cshell? That'll make it easy to google for. For those not willing to click the link, cshell stands for Compostable Shell.

Will it do what I tell it to do?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can't stand modern day software.

If I tell the computer to do something- like, say, stop pestering me about using Edge, or showing displays on my home screen, or installing updates without my permission- it better well fucking do that. If the computer is in any position to deny my wishes, then I do not own that device- someone else does, and therefore I refuse to buy and run such hardware and software.

Frankly, I'm at a point in my life where I barely use ~40% of the capability of the software I've got right now. The particular industry I'm in isn't changing that much and the standards we have now will be valid for the next 10-20 years. I'd rather have a good backup + imaging system and some heavy duty firewalls and run "antiquated" (by Microsoft's definition) software for the next several decades than deal with any of this newfangled shit that can run off and do whatever the hell it wants on MY fucking equipment.

TLDR; fuck walled gardens and "mobile ecosystems". That shit is a fucking disgrace to your personal freedoms as a paying customer. Modern day hardware is practically built with an obsolescence timer built into the software (they're called "yearly updates" now) and hardware (shoddy construction, glued/fused together chassis, glued in batteries, etc). Fuck that noise. And fuck all the companies ran exclusively by their shareholders to perpetuate that shit at the cost of the general public. We should be trying to build better devices that are more flexible and last longer, not the other way around. This project sounds no different.

Re:Will it do what I tell it to do?

[Presence Eternal]

Protip: You can use battery cases to deal with the non-replaceable battery issue. Some also feature microsd slots.

You're still SOL when it comes to being at the mercy of software updates though.

Re:Will it do what I tell it to do?

[Misagon]

Being in control of my computer is the main reason why I am mainly a Linux user.

You could build a long-lasting PC from components but you would first have to do a bit of looking for info, and then read up about them ... but there is a whole lot of cruft out there. The PC builder enthusiast community is now largely made up of gamers that just want high performance and run it hard for a short time before they upgrade.

Re:Will it do what I tell it to do?

[Anonymous Coward]

Modern day hardware is practically built with an obsolescence timer built into the software (they're called "yearly updates" now)

Funny, I said the exact same thing and was downvoted? WTF, mods.

https://slashdot.org/comments....

Re:Will it do what I tell it to do?

[GrumpySteen]

That article is about Apple products. This one is about Windows products. Different audience, different random people modding.

Re:Will it do what I tell it to do?

[Hal_Porter]

You're still SOL when it comes to being at the mercy of software updates though.

Funny thing is, Microsoft got going because people were sick of dumb terminals connected to mainframes and minicomputers. The mini/mainframe would go down from time to time when software was updated and that obviously drove people trying to do actual work on the terminals absolutely crazy because there was nothing they could do until the mini/mainframe was back up.

The original notion of a personal computer was to avoid this. The user controlled what software got installed. If they bricked it, they could fix it. If they didn't change anything, nothing got changed by a third party.

In a way 'cloud computing' and 'automatic updates' are a rollback to the mainframe days that personal computers, Dos and later Windows were a move away from.

Re:Will it do what I tell it to do?

[Anonymous Coward]

The first two? Yes.
Not installing updates? All the idiots I see who run 8 year old, unpatched operating systems because they claim they are more secure tell me you should never be given that choice.

Re:Will it do what I tell it to do?

[110010001000]

"Frankly, I'm at a point in my life where I barely use ~40% of the capability of the software I've got right now."

That is true about most software. For most people, the OS and hardware from 10 years ago was fine. It just needed security updates. But the computer industry wants you to keep buying. Now they are pushing "as a service" model to get you to pay every month - even if there are no useful changes.

Re:Will it do what I tell it to do?

[Anonymous Coward]

Protip: You can use battery cases to deal with the non-replaceable battery issue.

Let's go with a car analogy here. So your car's fuel tank has for some reason ruptured and is no longer holding fuel. Now the carmarket has welded the tank in place, no bolts to remove it or anything, it's pretty much stuck there.

So your suggestion is this basically. Instead of the car market making the fuel tank somewhat easier to replace, you tell people, oh just get a trailer and carry your fuel back there and have some hoses to get the fuel to the engine. Or alternately I need to get a new car.

In short, I shouldn't need to put a damn trailer on my car for its fuel tank. Nor should I need to put a battery pack case on my phone simply because the battery is no longer functional. Nor should I need to replace the device because of this.

 

Re:Will it do what I tell it to do?

[Presence Eternal]

You seem to be conflating my offering a workaround with my advocating the thing that needs a workaround. There's a mental trick you can use to overcome this confusion, but I don't want to come across as promoting low intelligence.

It works well with previous Microsoft hardware

[johannesg]

Andromeda is just a code name. The final name for consumers will be Microsoft Tablecloth.

Re:It works well with previous Microsoft hardware

[reboot246]

I was thinking Microsoft Napkin, so you'd use it at the table.

Re:It works well with previous Microsoft hardware

[Anonymous Coward]

They're going to cal it the Courier. https://www.cnet.com/news/the-inside-story-of-how-microsoft-killed-its-courier-tablet/

Re:It works well with previous Microsoft hardware

[skids]

I was thinking "refrigerator magnet"

Bad autocorrect?

[Misagon]

You mean Composable Shell?

It is a rumoured graphics user interface shell that is supposed to be better at scaling between different devices. From what I have been able to decipher from rumours, it would be similar to adaptive web design but for Windows' shell.

Re:Bad autocorrect?

[jellomizer]

I thought Microsoft just didn’t want to use bash or sh for their command line interface.
I was actually happy for a moment that they got away from the mess that is DOS and Power Shell.

Re:Bad autocorrect?

[ChunderDownunder]

WSL gives you bash. :)

Re:Bad autocorrect?

[PolygamousRanchKid]

You mean Composable Shell?

No, the Compostable Shell has been in the Microsoft Developer's Code Suppository for a long time now.

They have only just recently pulled it out of their ass.

Re:Bad autocorrect?

[Anonymous Coward]

Its probably because bash is a giant pile of shit. People only use it "because UNIX". There are absolutely zero technical arguments in its favor, neither as a language, nor as a tool.

What I have been waiting for

[pablo_max]

This is the type of device that I have been waiting for.
For my job, I need to take a lot of notes. I often need to sketch out things like simplified pulse trains for my customers so they can understand what they need to change on their radio. This is something which "could" be done on something like a surface, but I find writing on a normal laptop screen to be very uncomfortable and unnatural. It tends to make everything I write or draw look like I was doing some finger painting. Large and crappy.
I have tried that sony e-paper doodad which you can write on. That really did "feel" like I was writing on a paper, but the software and overall usability was supremely bad. Definitely not something which I could live with as a productivity device.
If MS could get the feel and accuracy of the writing to be at least very close to pen and paper, I would buy it.
I often use onenote anyhow, and it would be really great to have a dedicated program to manage all my handwritten notes.
I would prefer that it not try to convert my writing to typed text, but if it were still searchable...that would be fantastic.
Normally, I would assume MS would F it up, as they always do with HW, but in the last couple of years, their notebooks have actually been pretty damn good.
So.. I hope they pull it off.

Re:What I have been waiting for

[TuringTest]

You may want to try again with the reMarkable, a new product in the same category as the Sony e-paper.

It is expensive, and it has very limited software, but that allows them to provide a very focused minimal interface that feels like using paper in a notebook - just editable, with layers and background templates.

Re:What I have been waiting for

[Joce640k]

This is the type of device that I have been waiting for.
I often need to sketch out things ... This is something which "could" be done on something like a surface, but I find writing on a normal laptop screen to be very uncomfortable and unnatural. It tends to make everything I write or draw look like I was doing some finger painting. Large and crappy.

Making it foldable and giving it a different name will totally solve that problem.

Not.

Re:What I have been waiting for

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks like a kindle you can write on? Just bigger and heavier. And $800?
A bit bigger and you can get an actual Surface Pro 4.

For $800 I'd like a fast kindle, with two screens (folding) one color, one (at least) sketchable for notes and with a microsd slot. At no more than triple the bulk of the epaper kindle model itself. Battery should be 10-30 hours. No proprietary power cable/adapter crap either.

Re:What I have been waiting for

[angel'o'sphere]

There are much better solutions for eInk note taking and drawing than a device that requires/runs windows 10.
E.g. from http://www.remarkable.com/ or the NoteTable/NoteSlate from https://boingboing.net/2011/03...
There are plenty with pressure sensitive surfaces, or a combined device, the Lenovo Yoga Book (colour screen, keyboard that doubles as digitizing device, and you can write on paper while the device digitizes it)

Re:What I have been waiting for

[angel'o'sphere]

Here is an overview of eInk devices with stylus: http://forum.tabletpcreview.co...

Re:What I have been waiting for

[Anonymous Coward]

I would rather scratch notes with a rusty nail into a sidewalk than use any Microsoft product ever again. That is where I stand. YMMV.

captcha: "insanity" - very apt for an article regarding a new MS project

Re:What I have been waiting for

[Anonymous Coward]

Good luck getting the feel of writing on paper on a Surface Pro 4, or extracting 30h of battery. This device is the only one with good pressure sensitivity writing on e-ink.

Awkward half-way house devices

[Custard Horse]

Is it the PDA - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... - that MS is seeking to reinvent?

I don't get it - why would you want to push technology backwards? I get that people still write things down and they still use pen(cil) and paper which serves the purpose perfectly - albeit without SD slot.

We don't need some awkward bastard child of paper and tablet/phone.

Please MS, please stick to what you know - Word and Excel. Amazon and Google will bring new ideas to the table and Apple will make them look pretty and more slick, just like it has always been (for most of the elapsed current millennium).

Re:Awkward half-way house devices

[Samantha Wright]

They tried that already. Gates himself picked Windows 8 tablets over the Courier because it was easier to integrate into the Outlook/Exchange ecosystem. Given how spectacularly and repeatedly Windows tablets have failed, it's good that they're finally revisiting what everyone thought was their ace in the hole against Apple. Watch this video. You're right, it's not a product for everyone, but for the creative professionals who make up the bulk of macOS's (ever-dwindling) userbase, it was way more attractive than the passivity of an iPad, and likely still is.

Re:Awkward half-way house devices

[Samantha Wright]

(...And yes, I know Surface tablets sell decently well. Just not "iPad" well. They haven't really found a niche, they've just been forcing their nose into a space better served by a laptop with a real keyboard.)

Re:Awkward half-way house devices

[ChunderDownunder]

Students?

No more paper notepads or printed lecture notes that can become illegible by being rain damaged or having coffee spilt on them! And if you can't read your own handwriting, let a machine worry about that!

Re:Awkward half-way house devices

[thegarbz]

We don't need some awkward bastard child of paper and tablet/phone.

You may not. That's no reason not to develop it in case someone does want one. People said the same thing about the original Surface, a form factor which has now been wildly successful.

Please MS, please stick to what you know

They have been incredibly successful at creating markets for new devices, enough to make every manufacturer add another form factor to their lineup and enough to scare Apple into giving up on one of the original core premises of the iPad (a tablet should not need a stylus).

Re:Awkward half-way house devices

[j-beda]

Please MS, please stick to what you know

They have been incredibly successful at creating markets for new devices, enough to make every manufacturer add another form factor to their lineup and enough to scare Apple into giving up on one of the original core premises of the iPad (a tablet should not need a stylus).

It does seem that the Surface and similar products do have a future, but the narrative that they are wildly successful and overshadowing Apple's products seems a bit overstated. This highly fanboyish article from appleinsider.com indicates that Surface revenues seem to be about one third of Applewatch/TV/other revenues, and about one quarter to one fifth of iPad or Macintosh revenues. Maybe more recent quarters are substantially different, but it doesnt look like Apple should be panicing. It seems as though the Apple Watch business all by itself is about twice the size of the MS Surface business - and none of the sales trends seem to indicate immediate changes in these types of relationships.

http://appleinsider.com/articl...

With that said, who knows what the future will hold? Currently however, most of Apple's sales seem to be solidly ahead of the Surface sales, and the projections are not hugely different.

Re:Awkward half-way house devices

[thegarbz]

but the narrative that they are wildly successful and overshadowing Apple's products seems a bit overstated.

I didn't say it was successful and overshadowing Apple. I said it was wildly successful to the point where everyone has adopted the form factor including a company which was dead set against it from the onset.

Surface revenues seem

Surface revenues are entirely irrelevant in the success of what the Surface has achieved: Moving the PC paradigm to successfully incorporate pen and touch across the board, incorporating new use cases for the Windows platform as they go. These efforts date back to Windows XP, and the Surface has now finally done what MS has been attempting to do for the best part of 20 years. Comparing them to hardware sales from Apple is utterly daft, especially since MS hasn't even given guarantees that it would stay in this hardware market once it was adopted by OEMs.

Maybe more recent quarters are substantially different, but it doesnt look like Apple should be panicing.

They aren't. Apple aren't panicking from MS. They were "panicking" from an industry widely adopting pen computing. And I use panic as a term quite loosely given their actual response: Release a "Pro" version of a tablet. Include the one device they swore would never be used on a tablet. Compare the tablet to a full blown computer in the marketing materials. Directly advertise the weaknesses of competitors products in the one feature they didn't want to include in the first place: the pen. They are simply putting in a half hearted: "Hey slate devices are dumb, but if you do want one we have something similar with an Apple logo"

Re:Awkward half-way house devices

[j-beda]

Meh, I don't see it. Who is this "everyone" who has adopted the surface form factor? Best buy don't seem to be carrying a whole lot of them. If the Surface is "wildly successful" then the Apple Watch is "wildly successful" squared, and I don't really see many claiming that.

There is a small but significant number of users who have been creating content with stylus devices on Wacom hardware (and others) since forever on both the Mac and Windows platform. Adding a stylus option for a monster iPad might be infleuenced by the success of the Surface, but it also seems like a reasonable decision even without MS's products.

Note that I am not saying the Surface or the stylus thereof is a failure, by any means - I am just pointing out that does not seem to be taking the world by storm. Maybe it will, but there is not much data to suggest that it will in the next few years.

..aaand it's been hacked.

[Anonymous Coward]

Vulnerability hidden from the public for 2 months didn't stop execs bragging about security while the world burns.

The dream hasn't died then?

[Anonymous Coward]

I seem to recall Bill Gates wanting something like this in his Business at the Speed of Thought book around the turn of the century. I wonder if it was a continuous research stream just reaching viability, or just the same idea popping up again.

new frontiers

[ChunderDownunder]

Well it's Microsoft, so I hope they fail but, on the other hand, good luck to them.

They've avoided the hybrid tablet/laptop form factor, so it's neither a poor man's iPad, nor a poor man's Macbook. And they avoid the app-gap because it's not a direct competitor to iPhone.

What's the market here? MS added an epub reader to Edge, so I'd assume it's a competitor to Amazon for the online book space. And this foldable e-reader becomes a full-blown ARM64 PC when docked to keyboard, display and mouse.

Re:new frontiers

[Anonymous Coward]

>..becomes a full-blown ARM64 PC

Except that you can not install anything outside of MS store and MS will have absolute control what OS device has and when that is discontinued and killed overnight. If MS believed their OS is so great, they would not spend money on preventing people from installing alternative OS' on the devices.

Seems familiar

[stealth_finger]

A foldable device with a focus on pen and ink? That definitely seems familiar, where have I seen that before? Oh yeah, a book...

Re:Seems familiar

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't let the librarian catch you.

Re:Seems familiar

[coofercat]

Actually, I was sort of interested when I heard that - a sort of read/write kindle could be neat - read a book, scribble in the margins and keep reading. Or just push the text aside and do some doodling while you're staring out of the window.

Then I saw "it'll run Windows 10" and I lost interest :-(

Re:Seems familiar

[Anonymous Coward]

Joking aside, it sounds like the MS Courier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Courier

Wiki page is already being updated with this news, too.

Great

[Anonymous Coward]

More garbage hardware from a garbage corporation.

Re:Great

[ChunderDownunder]

Competition is a good thing, it helps keep Amazon, Google and Apple on their toes.

Probably MS will crash and burn in wasting another few billion. OR, perhaps in 3 years time Phil and Tim will re-use the iBook trademark (again) on an insanely great competitor.

Re: Great

[rerogo]

90% of everything is crap, so finding those other 10% of things isn't easy.

Nokia Communicator type device?

[Hal_Porter]

A long time ago I owned one of these

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

It was a clamshell device running Geos. Folded up it had an external display for phone stuff.

Now I reckon something like this might be viable now. You'd have Windows on both the phone and PDA side. The phone would be somewhat limited - i.e. basically a dumb phone for calls. Everything else would done on the PDA side. They could use one of the Atom descendents like this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Or they could run on ARM with their x86 to ARM emulator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Of course Microsoft have managed to wreck the desirability of such a such a device. Right now if you look at all device classes Windows and Android are actually neck and neck - Windows dominates desktops and notebooks but Android dominates tablets and phones

http://gs.statcounter.com/os-m...

It's questionable if there is still a market for a clamshell phone sized device running desktop Windows. Basically you'd end up with a 5 to 6 inch display, which is probably too small to do desktop stuff.

Also even though desktop Windows has most of the desktop market share, it's no longer the only desktop OS. Back in the old days if you wanted to view .doc and .xls files you basically needed Windows and Microsoft Office. Now it's not like that - both open OK on my Android phone and Mac using non Microsoft OSs and non Microsoft office packages. And if you want to run Photoshop or Office you need a big screen and fast processor.

I actually thought they'd do something like this with WIndows Phone. Instead they decided to kill Win32 support and try to move everyone to buying Metro apps from the Windows Store. And they Metroised Windows 8. Still perhaps now they've officially dropped Windows Phone they might decide to rethink. I suspect the ship has sailed for Win32 anyway though, and that probably means the end of Microsoft in the long run. If you're going to move from Win32 to a new OS as a user you'd be better off moving from Microsoft to Android, Chrome, macOS, iOS or Linux.

To early to pass judgement, and a thought.

[wjcofkc]

So far, there is too little information for me to pass judgement. But if Microsoft can produce a portable platform that is not merely something different, but also very useful in the ways that make it unique, I am at least interested. They are talking about a device that will have to have at least an 8 inch screen. Also, if it is going to be writing centric, they better do it right. There is a difference between a screen you can scribble notes on with a stylus, and a screen you can truly write on like a piece of paper. That is something that has not been done yet.

A bit off topic, but with MS having officially abandoned the phone market, except maybe not but yet maybe, I wish they would just purchase the BB10 OS already and spend a year working on it. Then, assuming they don't fuck up the amazing interface, they would have a true contender. Considering I never had any problems side loading Android apps on to my BB Classic, with some tinkering they could make porting Android apps so effortless there would be no reason for developers not to click, "make Windows Phone version" and be done with it.

Re:To early to pass judgement, and a thought.

[angel'o'sphere]

That is something that has not been done yet.
You are living behind the moon. Devices like this we gave since years. Probably a dozen companies compete around specialized eInk devices that are focusing on note taking and sketching. See my other posts from today.

Microsoft needs more names.

[sabbede]

Cshell? There's already something called cshell, and it isn't part of Windows. It's bad enough that their naming conventions leave my users unable to tell the difference between a local copy of Outlook and the Outlook Web App, now they have to steal names from linux?

Re: Microsoft needs more names.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called csh.
It isn't stolen from Linux. It existed long before Linux.

Re:Microsoft needs more names.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah. It can be confusing.

Honestly, my first thought on skimming the summary was: "Well, I prefer bash, myself... I wonder why they decided to go with cshell?"

Re:Microsoft needs more names.

[Anonymous Coward]

Worse, there's already something called "CoreOS"

Best case, people will be mocked for not knowing how to use the three damn sea shells! That's when we would be living in the future.

Quit

[DaMattster]

Microsoft has a pretty solid history of developing poor quality devices. I almost think they should quit while they are not ahead. If they truly want to get into hardware, perhaps they should hire someone away from Apple. Microsoft is a software company, not a hardware company. Their Surface, Zune, Windows Phones, etc. were all flops. I honestly think Microsoft is better off fully embracing open source and working a similar model to that of Red Hat. I could see Microsoft doing well by simply open-sourcing the Windows OS and keep Exchange, SQL Server, and BizTalk proprietary. The Windows product would be arguably much better if open sourced because millions of developers could work on it and improve it. Microsoft's culture is just not equipped to design and deliver quality hardware. In my opinion the Windows Operating System is ill-equipped to deal with mobile devices. At its heart, Windows is a server and desktop OS. Microsoft is trying to make a square peg fit a round hole. Even Apple developed iOS from scratch knowing fully well that that a desktop OS just cannot be made to mobile.

Re: Quit

[Anonymous Coward]

Except their products are way superior to competition

Marketing sucks, look at apple, mediocre overpriced products but well marketed

Re:Quit

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats great. What have you done that makes your opinion worth something?

Digital Assistant...

[Anonymous Coward]

Iam still using my first slab phone, after my first candy phone. I rarely change phones unless current phone cannot do it at all. I was wishing for e-Assistant....an electronic dairy alias phone alias internet consumer device(paying bills, seeing videos, songs, radio, etc) most importantly sturdy build and pocketable. 8/5mp cameras ok for me.

Well maybe

[Ol Olsoc]

But this is Microsoft, so we'll have to have someone else develop it, Apple to make it popular, than Microsoft will jump in the fray 4 years later yelling "Me Too!, Me Too!"

Re:Well maybe

[thegarbz]

Yeah just like the iPad Pro.

Re:Well maybe

[Ol Olsoc]

Yeah just like the iPad Pro.

Or Microsoft Zune, or Windows phone, Sorry you didn't get the joke, that Microsoft is so often late to the game. Apple has had some duds, but Microsoft is the best.

Re:Well maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like Linux. And most open source software.. which are clones of existing successful proprietary products.

Re: Well maybe

[Anonymous Coward]

Except I have been using MS smartphones since 2001, where was Apple? Borrowing money from MS

Re: Well maybe

[Ol Olsoc]

Except I have been using MS smartphones since 2001, where was Apple? Borrowing money from MS

Going to buy a new Windows phone today?

Re:Well maybe

[Ol Olsoc]

Sounds like Linux. And most open source software.. which are clones of existing successful proprietary products.

Waht's you point? I doubt that "linux" will make a folding smartphone. Linux doesn't make anything.

this seems like an (ages ago) solved problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Tablet + capacitive pen

Or hell, Wacom makes a mobile version of their drawing tablet http://www.wacom.com/en/produc...

If Microsoft recreates the Newton in modern form

[aussersterne]

and succeeds before anyone else. I am going to be sick.

I am still waiting on a replacement for my Newton 2100 with a lighter weight and SIM slot. Hell, I don't even need color or an OS update. Just give me Newton OS running on a Kindle with a digitizer.

But I seriously hope I don't have to buy it from MS.

Why not get an iPad Pro???

[SuperKendall]

Serious question, if you really need a device to sketch and take notes on why not use an iPad Pro and Apple Pencil?

There are a LOT of really good note taking apps now, not the least of which is just the basic Notes app that ships with the iPad, and lets you write text by hand that becomes searchable...

The Pencil is extremely precise and accurate, and very fluid - the newer iPad pros all have high speed displays that make them really responsive as well.

Re:Why not get an iPad Pro???

[skids]

Real paper has a frictional quality to it you'll never get on gorilla glass.

Anyway if any of these e-ink gadgets are cheap enough It'd be a great alternative to putting my cell phone under my mouse and making it vibrate every few minutes to keep the lock screen from kicking in on my corporate MS box while I'm busy ignoring my email and working on my linux box. Just a pad with a shifting pattern.

Re:Why not get an iPad Pro???

[SuperKendall]

Real paper has a frictional quality to it you'll never get on gorilla glass.

So then you will NEVER be satisfied with any electronic device, because the surface is never going to be paper (not even an eInk surface).

In reality the frictional quality is not about paper, it's about the interaction between paper and whatever you are writing with. Similarly the fictional quality of a tablet is not about the glass, but the pen you are using - the Apple Pencil has a decent frictional quality, with the upside that all drawing and writing is fully digital and thus transformable in a way that paper will never be.

Re:Why not get an iPad Pro???

[skids]

Yeah, when they make a stylus that emulates bumps in the paper that I can feel, maybe I'll give it a try.

But, paraphrasing some football coach recently, you know what you can do with a pad of paper you can;t with a tablet? Throw it on the ground and stomp on it in rage.

Also it the contents don't tend to accidentally end up on the cloud when you don't want them to.

Re:Why not get an iPad Pro???

[angel'o'sphere]

Because an iPad Pro lasts about 10h.
Sucks in bright sun light.
Has not even a matte screen (Hello Apple, it is 2017 ...)

And an eInk device runs for a month, works in every environment, and there are nice ones (for reading, not for sketching) that even have an illuminated screen, like the Nook Glow. Most of them are water tight enough to survive a drop at the beach.

Seriously no-one remembers they already did this??

[SuperKendall]

I came here looking to find people mocking Microsoft for pre-announcing the same thing twice... and was disappointed.

How could all of you forget the much hyped Courier?? It was really pushed at the time, then bam - no production.

Maybe it will really "surface" this time - but at this point you have to take the idea with a grain of salt at least.

The fundamental question I think it is, do people really want devices that fold. Even though I think it is very cool as a way to get a larger screen area and I'm a fan of the basic idea, I'm not sure the answer is yes.

...But why?

[hackel]

Does anyone actually *want* to use a pen/stylus to write things on a screen? They're great for artists, but obviously that's not what digital ink displays are designed for. I recently had to hand-write just a few paragraphs for an exercise at work and it was so foreign and awful, my hand actually cramped up. Why would anyone want to manually hand-write things? It just makes no sense. A foldable keyboard that is actually nice to use would be far, far more useful.

Re:If Microsoft recreates the Newton in modern for

[angel'o'sphere]

There is an Newton emulator called Einstein for iOS, but it only runs on rooted devices (aka it is not in the AppStore).
I would love to have something like that on an eInk reader or an Android device (as I don't want to root my iPad).

Oh, I just see: there is an Android version. Just google 'Einstein newton emulator'.

But we are talking about sketching, not reading.

[SuperKendall]

Because an iPad Pro lasts about 10h.

You draw or write more than 10 hours straight with pen/paper? Come on.

Sucks in bright sun light.

I've used it in the sun before, it is fine.

And an eInk device runs for a month, works in every environment, and there are nice ones (for reading, not for sketching)

Yes I have a Kindle myself, it works really well. BUT we are talking about creating here, not consuming - the iPad with Pencil is really really good at creation that would traditionally be done with paper.

Also you can get waterproof cases for the iPad if that is a concern...

Re:But we are talking about sketching, not reading

[Miamicoastguard]

You work for Apple. We get it.

Ahh, the "surface phone" rumors reappear

[filesiteguy]

I've been seeing this on and off for so long now. Reminds me of the news last year and earlier this year of a surface phone - http://news.softpedia.com/news/microsoft-s-surface-phone-could-launch-in-2019-as-iphone-9-rival-rumors-513785.shtml - that can run Windows 32 apps and be a phone as well as do laundry.

However, though my Microsoft rep and my TAM both sport Apple devices, I can see a future cellular connected pen-enabled low-power device that would be of interest.