Logitech To Shut Down 'Service and Support' For Harmony Link Devices In 2018 (arstechnica.com)

Logitech recently informed customers that it will be discontinuing service for its popular Harmony Link remote system, which allows users to control home theater and sound equipment from a mobile app. "Customers received an email explaining that Logitech will 'discontinue service and support' for the Harmony Link as of March 16, 2018, adding that Harmony Link devices 'will no longer function after this date,'" reports Ars Technica. From the report: While Logitech is offering a one-time, 35-percent discount on its Harmony Hub to affected customers that are out of warranty, that's not enough for Harmony Link users who are expressing their dissatisfaction on Logitech support forums and Reddit. Users have not experienced major problems with the Harmony Link system that would indicate they are approaching end of life. Harmony Link customers do not pay a subscription or service fee to use the device, either. The only reason provided comes from a Logitech employee with the username Logi_WillWong, who explains in a response post from September 8, 2017 that Logitech will not be renewing a "technology certificate license" that expires in March. No details were provided about how this certificate license allows the Harmony Link to function, but it appears that without it, those devices will not work as promised. "The certificate will not be renewed as we are focusing resources on our current app-based remote, the Harmony Hub," Logi_WillWong added, which seems to indicate that the shutting down of the Harmony Link system is a way to get more customers on the newer Harmony Hub system.

Comments

This is cloud appliancing

[Anonymous Coward]

Better get used to it. It's the future!

Concordance

[0100010001010011]

Quick search shows someone made a FOSS app to handle them: https://github.com/jaymzh/conc...

SubjecttIsSubject

[p0p0]

They are also apparently filtering "class action lawsuit" on their message boards to "**************" and being generally scummy.

Don't buy "cloud" products, people.

Glad I don't own one!

[reboot246]

I have a few of their mice and keyboards, and they're pretty good devices. I don't own one of their remotes.

Judging from this fiasco, I probably won't be buying ANY of their products in the future, even if one functions perfectly without the net.

Re:Glad I don't own one!

[green1]

Unfortunately the cable company remotes can't compete with the feature set of something like a harmony. This isn't the case of a remote with 4 power buttons across the top or something, it really is a better remote in that with a single button it will turn a group of devices on, and change them all to the correct inputs for a specific activity, and when changing activities it will remember the current state of devices to change only the appropriate settings to support the new activity (e.g. if you're watching Netflix through a WD Live box and want to switch to listening to a CD, it will turn off the TV, but leave the surround sound system on, turn off the WD box, turn on the CD player, change the input on the surround sound system, and change the mode on the sound system to music instead of movie.)

Worse yet, there isn't nearly as much competition in this space as you might think, Logitech really is the massively dominant player here. I really like my Harmony remote, but I've always been worried about the cloud dependence (enough that I probably wouldn't have bought it myself, but when I got it as a gift I've enjoyed it) If/when I have to replace it though, I'm not sure exactly what I'll do. With my current setup I'd need 6 remotes without the Harmony, and 4 of those are needed just for the simple task of watching TV (and the cable company remote won't reliably control ANY of my devices other than their own cable box)

Concordance is nice but not the answer

[Anonymous Coward]

You didn't read the thing you linked to. To wit:

This software allows you to program your Logitech Harmony remote using a configuration object retreived from the harmony website: http://members.harmonyremote.com/EasyZapper/

The website is required. The website is required in Logitech's software as well, it's just that their software wraps the website. Their website has all the logic on what codes work with what remotes and what hardware, etc. The software just takes the binary blobs that the website makes and writes it to the remote control. This is true for both Logitech's software and this software.

Logitech stops website, users of concordance are just as bereft as everyone else.

In fact, you can't really start using concordance before you signed up through the windows-only logitech "app" because you can't do that directly through the website, or at least I couldn't, last time I tried. It just bitched about my browser.

Re:Concordance is nice but not the answer

[green1]

Exactly this.

I have a Logitech Harmony remote. It's a great remote, but the setup experience is absolutely abysmal. The software is Windows only, and dependant on a cloud service that may, or may not, exist tomorrow. Additionally about 80-90% of devices in the library seem to be incorrect in one small way or other (e.g. remote thinks a TV has more inputs than it actually does, resulting in the remote always cycling to the wrong one when changing inputs) which requires a large amount of manual workarounds to setup most systems. If that weren't bad enough, the workflow in their app makes these minor changes as painful as possible to accomplish because it's setup only to work with their specific envisioned perfect world workflow where you simply tell it what devices you have and it guesses at how you have them hooked together and what you might use each one for.

Knowing that the biggest issue was the software, not the hardware, I looked for alternative software, I figured that would also help if/when Logitech decided to discontinue my remote (which actually happened to a friend of mine with a slightly different model). Concordance looked like a godsend, it worked in Linux, and it wasn't affiliated with Logitech. Then I discovered that it mirrors the same workflow, and uses the same web service, and really just provides a way to get the data files from the website to the remote. This is extremely unfortunate as I has hoped to find an actual software independent of Logitech that could keep this thing going.

For now I'm still using the Harmony because it still works, and beats my old method of having 6 different remotes (4 of which were needed just for the simple task of watching TV). But if it stops working at some point (which seems likely, especially if I change any of my hardware and need to reprogram it) I highly doubt I'll be looking to Logitech for the next solution. Unfortunately, there isn't nearly as much competition in this particular space as one might think. (It should also be noted that it's getting harder to do this the same way too, as more devices are moving their remotes to bluetooth instead of IR, something that's much harder to make a universal remote for)

Re:Concordance is nice but not the answer

[aaarrrgggh]

Not sure if it is quite there yet for home entertainment, but check out Universal-Devices.com and their Polygot. You end up needing an ISY994 and a Raspberry Pi, along with a IR Blaster... but it can be a much more flexible solution.

Think twice before buying IoT devices

[DidgetMaster]

Want to use your dishwasher because it still runs fine after 10 years? Well, that 'Smart Device' might not work any more because the manufacturer wants you to buy their newest model instead or wants you to sign up for some paid subscription service that you don't want or need. They just won't send some 'certificate' that allows the dishwasher to keep working past its 'due date'. Same for your fridge, your TV, your security camera, your stove, your sprinkling system, your ....

Re:100% predictable.

[Scutter]

The worst part is that they were selling off remaining inventory at fire sale prices knowing full well they were going to brick them soon, and arranged the timing of the warranty to completely screw the buyers.

No more logitech for me

[kbg]

I was seriously thinking of buying a Logitech Harmony remote to replace my old Philips remote, but now it's clear that I will not be buying any Logitech products ever in the future. So does anyone know of any good universal remotes?

Re:No more logitech for me

[i286NiNJA]

You can buy an IR blaster that goes into the audio jack on the old cell phone sitting in your junk drawer and install any of the actively maintained FOSS remote apps to be your new-forever universal remote control. If you want physical buttons to push such phones are nearly free these days.
Cost: under 10 dollars and probably supported forever.

Re:No more logitech for me

[green1]

And yet I have yet to find one with even half the functionality of the 7 year old Harmony remote I'm using. Please tell me what apps you find that are worth using, because I'm actively looking for a Harmony replacement, and this seems like the obvious option.

When will people learn?

[JustNiz]

We only have ourselves to blame.
Microsoft, Logitech and may other manufacturers KEEP proving that they can and will artificially shorten the life of even expensive products only a few years in, yet people just keep mindlessly buying products containing (often otherwise unnecessarily) nanny-net technology. Our buying patterns are just encouraging said manufacturers to keep getting worse with the blatant abuse on every product iteration.

We still need to learn as a society to look for, and prefer buying functionally equivalent devices that do not have any unnecessary internet connectivity, because its already freaking obvious that manufacturers already feel free to use that as an attack vector to totally abuse us.

Cloudy thinking

[Futurepower(R)]

"This is cloud appliancing: Better get used to it. It's the future!"

I agree, it's cloudy thinking by Logitech managers. Saves Logitech how much money? Then subtract the damage to Logitech's reputation. The loss, I'm guessing, is in the tens of millions.

Re:Cloudy thinking

[green1]

Guess again.

The odds of new customers heading this warning never to use Logitech products ever again is minuscule, meanwhile, it's likely at least a small percentage of the affected users will act against their own self interest and buy the new system despite knowing better from this experience.

End result for Logitech is likely positive, despite the fact that in a sane society it would sound their death knell.

Re:Cloudy thinking

[jareth-0205]

Guess again.

The odds of new customers heading this warning never to use Logitech products ever again is minuscule, meanwhile, it's likely at least a small percentage of the affected users will act against their own self interest and buy the new system despite knowing better from this experience.

End result for Logitech is likely positive, despite the fact that in a sane society it would sound their death knell.

Perhaps. But the drip drip does get through eventually. DRM on music was railed against for years before it became publicly accepted that it was a bad thing. We haven't had any big cloud failures yet but the message is getting through. Just wait until Valve or Amazon or Google make a big error. And then wait a bit longer... public understanding of tech is slow to change, but it does change.

That and legislation, because the market doesn't fix everything when companies are colluding, even if people care.

Re:Cloudy thinking

[Zaelath]

Remember when Creative Labs not only pulled the same kind of crap with their drivers (back in 2008)?

Forcing people to upgrade their discrete sound cards by killing the drivers worked really well for them!

Re:Cloudy thinking

[green1]

I don't think the public yet accepts that DRM on music is bad. Really people have simply switched away from owning music entirely. It's all streaming services now, and all of those are cloud based with no way to keep your music once you stop paying monthly. If you're using that as an example of a "win" for consumers, I think you're looking at the wrong industry.

Re:Cloudy thinking

[AmiMoJo]

It will be when the first big game console service shuts down prematurely that people really wake up to it.

Re:Cloudy thinking

[thsths]

Actually, Google is by the the most reliable service I have every used. I think there was a 10 minute outage that I noticed, in more than a decade.

But this is not about accidents, this is about intentional sabotage of user devices. I do like Logitech for their hardware, but the software is always lacking, and this is just another example.

Same as the old Squeezebox product line

[Flexagon]

Logitech has a history of this behavior. It did the same thing to its old Squeezebox product line, dropping hardware support and moving one of its remaining products (the Radio) to new software they thought would sell better (UE Smart Radio). It didn't. Fortunately, the original software was not as entangled with the Logitech-hosted service as the Harmony remotes, and both the server and client software are open source as well. So now there's ongoing support for the software, and other companies are making audio devices that are compatible with it. My setup continues to work just fine years after Logitech bailed. And my newest Squeezebox device is a RaspberryPi.

But I did research the software side of the Squeezebox product line before I originally purchased, expecting that there was a very good probability that the devices that I bought would possibly far outlast Logitech's stomach for supporting their devices (typically 5 years for consumer products). And it was the availability of open source software that clinched my decision to go with the product. One must really think twice when buying a consumer product with software in it, and thrice if that software depends on a cloud service or even regular updates.

Even otherwise simple standalone devices that have a settable timezone are exciting again, with the New England states beginning to consider dropping twice-a-year DST related changes. Can you update the software's timezone table when jurisdictions make these kinds of changes?

Re:Same as the old Squeezebox product line

[BenFranske]

Yep, I was all in on Squeezebox too and never regretted going with it instead of Sonos. A major reason I bought all the Squeezebox stuff was the open source backend to it which I knew would keep going even if Logitech disappeared. This is doubly important with a big system made up of a lot of components like a whole house music system or a home automation system. I simply refuse to buy anything in these areas which requires a vendor remain supportive in order for it to function. The investment in a system like this is a long term play and consumer electronics vendors just don't have a track record for long term support.

I will say that I keep hoping for a community rewrite of LMS because it is quite long in the tooth and has some substantial drawbacks these days over other solutions. Alternatively, I hope for some entirely new whole house music project which will still work with my existing Squeeze devices but has a mobile friendly website, better API for integrating with automation, etc. If I was starting over again I would probably look at Music Player Daemon, but I do like having a centralized web control panel which it is lacking and no one has really good open source hardware projects that connect to it to create something usable without an app at all like the Squeeze devices can be...

Trust

[manu0601]

shutting down of the Harmony Link system is a way to get more customers on the newer Harmony Hub system

That seems a strange idea: brick your product, and expect customer to trust you again and buy a new one.

Re:Fool me twice

[green1]

For most other companies that have tried this approach it's worked out great. And no, that's not sarcasm. It appears that very few future customers bother to research this sort of behaviour, it gets very little media attention overall, and unbelievably, a portion of the user base you just screwed over will actually buy your new product despite the fact that they really should know better.

Worse yet, this is becoming so widespread and common that it's actually hard to find a company that isn't willing to resort to these sorts of tactics, and consumers are actually coming to expect it, and actually don't seem to care.

Re:100% predictable.

[Khyber]

Sounds like a lawsuit for fraud, to me. Selling a product you have no intention of supporting, and in fact plan to make unusable in a very short period of time.

Re:Logitech screwing themselves.

[green1]

I think you underestimate the willingness of the average consumer to let companies screw them over. It's unlikely this will actually hurt Logitech in any meaningful way, and it may even benefit them as a certain percentage of users actually buy Logitech's newest version despite the fact that they really should know better.

It doesn't hurt any that, as pointed out by other respondents, there isn't nearly as much competition in this space as you'd think.

I WAS a loyal Logitech customer

[hyades1]

I have never used anything but Logitech's "Marble Mouse" trackball since it first came on the market decades ago. Well, it seems the 64-bit drivers don't offer all the functionality of older ones. I tried contacting them about it, and was basically told to get lost.

It looks like my experience with them was just an early indicator of what was to come. Logitech has chosen a customer service model, and it's not one I want to be part of. So when the time came a couple of months ago to replace my main computer's sound system, I walked right past the Logitech options. My next trackball will probably be a Kensington.

Based on what I'm reading here, it looks like I made the right choice. I might not be a major corporation, but every device in my house (at the moment) has a Logitech pointing device attached to it. Two of them have Logitech keyboards. One has a Logitech sound system. I was a long-term loyal customer who would never have felt the need to look elsewhere.

That was then. This is now.

Logitech is dead to me.

Re:what a great idea

[tlhIngan]

shut down a cloud based service, forcing all your customers who paid for the products that depend on it to buy something else.
Offer them a discount on your new cloud based service

The problem is SSL. The Harmony Link (not to be confused with the Harmony Hub) has a built-in SSL certificate that expires in 2018. Presumably, Logitech tried all they could to update the certificate, but given the age of the product, it likely wasn't possible. Those who are still in warranty will get a Harmony Hub for free, while those without have to contend with a discount.

I believe the Link was supposed to be a friendly thing - you went to the web site and set it up and it downloaded the configuration (hence needing the SSL certificate) to work. The Hub relies on the older style operation where you download a new configuration firmware to it, and thus eliminate the whole internet connection required aspect.

IoT gets more fun when you toss SSL and 30 day certificates into the mix - imagine needing to update your firmware every 30 days just to keep it working.

As for why Harmony requires a web service - it's how the devices will always have the latest device support - it doesn't matter how new it is, there will always be a command code that works. While general categories of things usually have similar sets (anyone with one of those One For All remotes know to have to try 3-4 codes to see if it works properly), the Harmony avoids that since it can get the exact command set.

Plus, you can get discrete codes into Harmony, something One For All type remotes don't have. And if you have new devices, it's nice to be able to have support immediately (Harmony was the only one to support remote controlled fans, for example). So it doesn't matter if someone invents a super new widget, if it uses standard consumer IR, Harmony will have support for it,even if the remote you have predates it by 20 years.

Re:Fool me twice

[idontgno]

Why can't you ask Logitech for source code for the cloud software?

You certainly could ask. Expect crickets, however.

Why Logitech won't respond to your request is right in TFS:

"The certificate will not be renewed as we are focusing resources on our current app-based remote, the Harmony Hub," Logi_WillWong added, which seems to indicate that the shutting down of the Harmony Link system is a way to get more customers on the newer Harmony Hub system.

Planned enforced obsolescence doesn't work if you don't force it. Allowing people to escape "upgrade or fail" defeats the purpose.

Corporations are not your friend, and you have value to them only as far as the next wodge of money they can get out of you.