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Asgardia Becomes the First Nation Deployed in Space (cnet.com)

An anonymous reader quotes CNET: An Orbital ATK Antares rocket carrying a cubesat named Asgardia-1 launched from NASA's Wallops Flight Facility in Virginia early Sunday. The milk carton-sized satellite makes up the entirety of territory of the self-proclaimed "Space Kingdom" of Asgardia... Over 300,000 people signed up online to become "citizens" of the nation over the last year. The main privilege of citizenship so far involves the right to upload data to Asgardia-1 for safekeeping in orbit, seemingly far away from the pesky governments and laws of Earth-bound countries...

As of now, Asgardia's statehood isn't acknowledged by any other actual countries or the United Nations, and it doesn't really even fit the definition of a nation since it's not possible for a human to physically live in Asgardia. Not yet, at least. The long-term vision for Asgardia includes human settlements in space, on the moon and perhaps even more distant colonies.

On Tuesday Orbital ATK's spacecraft will dock with the International Space Station for a one-month re-supply mission -- then blast higher into orbit to deploy the space kingdom's satellite. "Asgardia space kingdom has now established its sovereign territory in space," read an online statement.

Next the space kingdom plans to hold elections for 150 Members of Parliament.

176 comments

  1. Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    HIGHLIGHTS from the Terms of service at https://asgardia.space/en/page/terms-of-service

    "All disputes regarding these Terms of Service, with the exception of copyright claims, will be settled by arbitration in Austria, under its laws."

    1. Re:Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      AUSTRIA!!!

      G'day MATE!!

    2. Re:Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      AUSTRIA!!!

      G'day MATE!!

      Got the feeling that the person who misread Austria as Australia is not using a very big screen or just perhaps might be starting to need glasses? Miss reads of common words that look alike but are very different is often the first sign of failing eye sight or a simple failure to pinch to zoom.

    3. Re:Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Here's your sign... *sigh*

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      It's a meme, bro.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    5. Re:Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      Here's your sign... *sigh*

      Not true. When I was in Austria back in '09, I saw an advertisement for a zoo/park that expressly stated they had kangaroos. So it would be more correct to say there are no naturally occurring kangaroos in Austria. Also ate at a restaurant that served kangaroo burgers.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    6. Re:Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by diesel66 · · Score: 1

      What were you expecting? Serious question.

      --



      eleven plus two / twelve plus one
    7. Re:Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Got the feeling that the person who posted this comment is unfamiliar with a concept known as a woosh.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    8. Re: Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All your nation are belong to us.

    9. Re:Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 1

      The problem with trying for the "+1 Funny" mod is that a lot of people who think they are funny, aren't. Or, if they're funny in person, aren't funny in prose.

      --
      Imagine all the people...
    10. Re:Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      AUSTRIA!!! G'day MATE!!

      Throw another Mozartkugel on the barbie!

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    11. Re: Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah it's bullshit designed to take fool's money.. just like bitcoin. This place is a total shithole now.

      -2005 /.'er taking a first look in a decade

    12. Re:Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by djfunkisdead · · Score: 1

      It's a meme, bro.

      Meme? Try movie scene....with that one actor. uhhh....slippy, sl..slappy......swanson?

    13. Re:Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HIGHLIGHTS from the Terms of service at https://asgardia.space/en/page/terms-of-service

      "All disputes regarding these Terms of Service, with the exception of copyright claims, will be settled by arbitration in Austria, under its laws."

      Very interesting.

      And Austria has this thing about not accepting "refugees" (technically "illegal immigrants") from other EU countries.

      Things that make you go "Humm...."

    14. Re:Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Got the feeling that the person who posted this comment is unfamiliar with a concept known as a woosh.

      Or a boomerang...

    15. Re:Sovereign-territory-in-space my ass by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not your bro, pal.

  2. Where is the satellite flagged? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Presumably a NASA facility will not launch unregistered spacecraft...

  3. Pirate Bay Haven by mentil · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The Pirate Bay had little luck trying to base their data out of Sealand, maybe they'll try again... IN SPAAAAACE!
    I'd like to see the MAFIAA try to get their cronies to raid a satellite.
    I expect that the nationality of the owner would determine the jurisdiction for crimes done involving storing data on the satellite, with a similar situation to Pitcairn Island.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    1. Re:Pirate Bay Haven by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like to see the MAFIAA try to get their cronies to raid a satellite.

      That would be quite easy, just get the few governments and private companies who are able to service the satellites to refuse service.

    2. Re:Pirate Bay Haven by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

      Damn. For a second there, I read that as Picard Island. There's already Riker Island, after all.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    3. Re:Pirate Bay Haven by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      I'd like to see the MAFIAA try to get their cronies to raid a satellite.

      Since the satellite is the legal responsibility of the nation of the owners-or-record, they'll have very little problem. And the ground stations, control system, and other infrastructure are here on the ground... Again, no problem.

    4. Re:Pirate Bay Haven by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Sealand at least has the advantage of having people.

      Pitcairn Islands is a British Overseas Territory. Also it is a real place, with people. People accused of crimes there are tried under UK legal authority. In fact about 10 years ago they built a prison on the island to hold some of them.

      It is going to be hard to convince any other jurisdiction that a place that has never had any people has legal citizens; you weren't born there, your parents weren't born there, and there is no embassy or consulate. You certainly weren't under their legal jurisdiction when you claimed you were accepting a new citizenship.

      The thing about crimes done online, it doesn't matter where the server is in most cases. It matters where the law is, and if you interacted with computers in that place. Consider for example if you are in the USA and you make a prank phone call to the Queen of England; you probably violated laws in both countries! And nobody is going to ask about what country the telephone switching network was in. If the call was routed through Germany, it makes no difference. The activity happened at the two ends of the connection.

    5. Re:Pirate Bay Haven by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      What a moran! Of course there is a Picard Island.

      And of course it is a lot nicer than Rikers Island!

      Honestly, if I was trying for Pitcairn Island and ended up on Picard Island, I'd count my blessings! And tip my navigator.

    6. Re:Pirate Bay Haven by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Make it so!

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    7. Re:Pirate Bay Haven by slashdot_commentator · · Score: 1

      Apparently, you do not understand what communication satellites are, or how they are serviced. Once a satellite is launched into orbit, it requires zero servicing. What satellite companies are doing after launch is servicing the data that gets transmitted to/from the satellite. You do not need a satellite company to communicate to a satellite. Ham radio enthusiasts have been "communicating" to their ham satellites for years, independent of a satellite company.

      As long as the communication to the satellite (for its services) doesn't require encrypted authentication, there's no need for the satellite to be "serviced" by a company. The problem with Asguardia is that most commercial satellites are in LEO, not GEO; so LEO satellites will not stay in orbit indefinitely.

      --
      There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and AT&T and DuPont, Dow, General Electric, and Exxon
  4. I am Asgardian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Yes i am. It's just fun, total bullshit, but a good idea, if it is fine right

    1. Re:I am Asgardian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you could enlighten me as to why you would prefer to be "represented" by a parliament to direct democracy?

    2. Re:I am Asgardian by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Because the public are largely a bunch of fuckwits. With an indirect democracy at least there's an isolator - a circuit breaker if you like - that stops them burning the house down.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    3. Re:I am Asgardian by evil_aaronm · · Score: 1

      *reads this morning's news about Trump* Um, is this a "whoosh"?

    4. Re:I am Asgardian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's not. The alternative was hillary, which was even worse.

    5. Re:I am Asgardian by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      The alternative was "anyone else," since we don't have to elect the single candidates that a political party tells us to.

    6. Re: I am Asgardian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That you thinkt an orange pussy-grabbing moron is a better pick than anyone tells us all we need to about you.

    7. Re:I am Asgardian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agreed. Let's get Nomad to fuse with Asgardia, let it burn down the house.

    8. Re: I am Asgardian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He grabbed you did he?

    9. Re:I am Asgardian by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Yes i am. It's just fun, total bullshit, but a good idea, if it is fine right

      It would be interesting if Earth-bound governments started enforcing the concept that you cannot swear 'true faith and allegiance" to more than one country at a time, and start cancelling the Earth-bound citizenships of anyone who adopts Asgardia. "You're not a citizen of the US? Where's your immigration paperwork? Oh, you don't have any? Well .... hi ho, hi ho, it's off to Gitmo you go..." Lotsa fun. I laugh all day.

    10. Re:I am Asgardian by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      True story.

      My wife is from Poland, and has dual citizenship with the US and Russia. She is now trying to denounce her Russian citizenship, because Russia is no longer recognizing dual citizenship. We want to go to St. Petersburg to see her family, but if she does without renouncing, she will be jailed.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    11. Re:I am Asgardian by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do know some states no longer permit write-ins for POTUS at least, right? In those states, you can only vote for somebody on the ballot, and you functionally have to have a live branch of the party in that state to be on the ballot. I'm not sure if all of them actually had the Green and/or Libertarian candidate make it onto their ballots this last round, either...

  5. Perhaps a different name would’ve been bette by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    As I recall, didn’t the Asgard commit mass suicide?

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  6. Australian parliament by vlad30 · · Score: 2

    Now if it isn't recognized officially could you still get elected to the parliament or would the federal court consider this dual citizenship as 300,000 people have declared themselves citizens of Asgardia

    --
    Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
    1. Re:Australian parliament by TimSSG · · Score: 1
      Of course you can get elected to the Australian parliament; now, whether it would be valid, if challenged, is another question. Tim S.

      Now if it isn't recognized officially could you still get elected to the parliament or would the federal court consider this dual citizenship as 300,000 people have declared themselves citizens of Asgardia

    2. Re:Australian parliament by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that Asguardia should just give everyone in Australia citizenship. Could make things interesting!

  7. New snake oil? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Customer service rep to customer: "Yep, your data is in orbit. Really. It's totally up there, and not just on our ground-based server. Have a nice day!"
    *click*
    Customer service rep to co-worker "How dare he accuse us of not actually launching an exabyte hard drive into space!"

    1. Re:New snake oil? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Beyond the cloud" has a nice ring as an advertising slogan for a data center.

    2. Re:New snake oil? by Arashi256 · · Score: 1

      "Miles Above the Cloud"?

    3. Re:New snake oil? by SunTzuWarmaster · · Score: 1

      I like:
      "Above the Clouds"
      "In the Black Cloud"
      "In the Dark Cloud"
      "In the Radiation Zone"
      "In the Deep Cloud"
      "out of this world"
      "among the stars"
      "frozen at 0 K"
      "encircling the clouds"
      "moving faster than any object on the planet"

      That said - its technically crap. failure rates in space are an order of magnitude higher than earth.

    4. Re:New snake oil? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which will be truncated to Cloud 2.0

  8. Belters by Boutzev · · Score: 2

    Next thing we know their entire population will all be mining asteroids and will be so sensitive to gravity that their bones will crack on Earth. No thanks. Call me when there is nation on Mars.

    1. Re:Belters by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Martians will only suffer and die slowly on Earth, their bones won't actually crack. So good call!

      I can tell you this much; Mars is going to have humans on it long before this satellite does!

  9. Non-Story by Gussington · · Score: 1, Insightful

    So the first nation isn't a nation by any definition yet here we are...
    Fuck Slashdot

    1. Re:Non-Story by sheramil · · Score: 2

      Is this the next step in the Sovereign Citizen movement?

    2. Re:Non-Story by bradley13 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Geez, who peed in your breakfast cereal?

      --
      Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    3. Re:Non-Story by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      Depends. Did those 300,000 people pay any money, and if so, was it implied there'd be some kind of legal immunity for what they do with the satellite?

      Because, if so, there's a story here about fraud and gullibility. There is zero chance of an uninhabitable region of space being recognized as a nation, yet people are buying the claim that this has any legitimacy.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    4. Re:Non-Story by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      More interesting (to me) is this offer to upload data to the satellite.

      Do they check the data before it is sent? I hope so, otherwise they are going to be the first to host a bunch of 4chan memes and child porn in space.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re:Non-Story by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      I guess some people contributed, otherwise I wonder who payed for the launch.
      However there was no fee or payment involved when I joined.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    6. Re: Non-Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a cubesat. Unless they have a global sband array at their disposal, their link budget is going to allow for transfer speeds in the bytes/sec to low kb/s up, and probably even slower down.

    7. Re:Non-Story by mvdwege · · Score: 0

      Libertarianism tends to attract people prone to Dunning-Kruger Syndrome.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    8. Re:Non-Story by mvdwege · · Score: 0

      And obviously a lot of special snowflakes who can't take a bit of ribbing, witnessing the -1 I just got.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    9. Re:Non-Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I AM a sovereign citizen, you insensitive clod!

    10. Re:Non-Story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your mom, how do you think she keeps the electricity on to do your laundry?!

    11. Re:Non-Story by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Worse, under what legal jurisdiction are they when they're doing the checking?

      If a country doesn't have any land, it doesn't have any anything. It doesn't have activities that happened there. The activities that "happened" will have "happened" in the places where the humans were!

  10. Stupidity knows no bound by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The world we live in is under attack by a bunch of cultist savages who sliced off people's neck in the name of their moon-god

    Instead of fixing this problem those assholes are dreaming of having a nation in space ?

    How stupid can they be?

  11. Space War by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least their colony-drop will be mostly harmless.

  12. A celestial tax haven is next? by deviated_prevert · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Soon the rich will be able to form holding companies and tax haven banks in space if this imaginary nation state is recognized. Could be the answer to the offshore tax havens needing to increase tax rates to pay for hurricane damage. Some are increasing their rates because of the increased costs of services in remote places and the simple fact that they also have to employ large numbers of expensive armed guards and costly security specialists to secure the gold vaults. The only thing that secretive offshore tax havens are really good at is hiding away physical assets like gold, not today's digital capital which any bank registered in these places can do. Yes they really are the new Pirates of the Caribbean.

    How could they also achieve space tax heavens? Simply assign a value of a certain weight of land held gold to the space craft then like bit coin issues trade it in units that can be exchanged without government oversight essentially a unit based barter system for the very rich members who buy into the schemes. Essentially a new gold standard of exchange overstepping the US Fed and becoming a viable and stable means of exchange exclusively for the very rich.

    --
    This message was not sent from an iPhone because Peter Sellers really was a deviated prevert without a dime for the call
    1. Re:A celestial tax haven is next? by swb · · Score: 1

      Do tax havens really hold assets in gold?

      I would think that would be too volatile and kind of bulky, not to mention high risk to move around. Apple's $236 billion cash hoard in Jersey would be something like 300 cubic meters of gold.

    2. Re:A celestial tax haven is next? by No+Longer+an+AC · · Score: 3, Funny

      Soon the rich will be able to form holding companies and tax haven banks in space

      Yeah, screw offshore accounts.

      A new life awaits you in the off-world colonies. The chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure.

      (and tax havens).

      I don't suppose the FDIC covers off-world banks.

    3. Re:A celestial tax haven is next? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      No bank is holding an "account balance" in gold.
      Why would they?

      The total amount of gold on the planet is probably less than 1000 cubic meters. (I mean mined gold, not remaining gold in the crust).

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    4. Re:A celestial tax haven is next? by Enigma2175 · · Score: 2

      Actually, a little more than 8,500 cubic meters have been mined (165,000 metric tons, a cubic meter of gold is 19.3 tons). At current prices, that's around $8.5 trillion.

      --

      Enigma

    5. Re:A celestial tax haven is next? by swb · · Score: 1

      I didn't think so, but I was responding to the parent poster's comment about "guards to guard the gold vaults".

      It does kind of pique my interest generally how a place like Jersey holds Apple's $236 billion cash hoard and what the financial mechanics are of moving that kind of money across international borders and what actual form it takes, and what the security associated with it is.

      My guess would just be electronic accounts tied to US treasury instruments, but the security gets to be kind of interesting as Jersey is something of an independent nation. What would happen if the Jersey government and bank officials were coerced into seizing those assets under some kind of US tax probe?

    6. Re:A celestial tax haven is next? by deviated_prevert · · Score: 1

      I didn't think so, but I was responding to the parent poster's comment about "guards to guard the gold vaults".

      It does kind of pique my interest generally how a place like Jersey holds Apple's $236 billion cash hoard and what the financial mechanics are of moving that kind of money across international borders and what actual form it takes, and what the security associated with it is.

      My guess would just be electronic accounts tied to US treasury instruments, but the security gets to be kind of interesting as Jersey is something of an independent nation. What would happen if the Jersey government and bank officials were coerced into seizing those assets under some kind of US tax probe?

      The whole point was to base the shares on land based gold holdings not US Treasury Bond issues. The exchange charges would be the income for the individual banks, thus slowly inflating the net value of the satellite transaction data past that of the original gold holding. Hell if the satellite was shot up or failed they could just launch a new one to replace it that way.

      Today's ultra rich .1% like to hide away assets and have a penchant for exchanging bond holdings for gold and other precious commodities where and when ever they can. Look into what is under the city of Zürich and the extensive vault systems in some places like the Caribbean and you will find that the ultra rich have large amounts squirreled away. By and large they don't have it buried under their castles like their ancestors did that practice stopped during the second world war when castles became less safe for them and the Nazi's looted the vast majority of wealth that had been squirreled away in Europe.

      Now the ultra rich of today have castles built all over the planet and own banks with the means to secure their loot where it is safe from forfeiture by some regime. The mafia did the same shit in Cuba with Batista before Castro cut their nuts off. The amount of asset loot that was very quickly taken out of Cuba and hidden away elsewhere by organized crime in late 1958 when they realized Batista had had the biscuit is amazing. Even Batista managed to set himself and his relatives up rather nicely. Crooks and their banks have a way of finding holes in trees to hide things especially when it comes to physical assets and you can almost bet that this is one way that will succeed if satellites can become autonomous states.

      --
      This message was not sent from an iPhone because Peter Sellers really was a deviated prevert without a dime for the call
    7. Re:A celestial tax haven is next? by deviated_prevert · · Score: 1

      Soon the rich will be able to form holding companies and tax haven banks in space

      Yeah, screw offshore accounts.

      A new life awaits you in the off-world colonies. The chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure.

      (and tax havens).

      I don't suppose the FDIC covers off-world banks.

      The FDIC already does not cover the majority of off shore tax havens, physical assets do and that is the problem they pose for the Fed. What has been going on with asset transfer to gold has caused the recent inflation in the value of gold and the vast majority of gold ain't in Fort Knox anymore as the Fed would like us to believe. There are other physical assets being held offshore in some of these so called "banks" as well as gold, it is possible to have very large safety deposits that can be evaluated for exchange value or just secured by the owner. This is how to sell expensive stuff out of country and avoid exchange rate and taxation troubles. This is what I was alluding to with a satellite becoming a state they could also become means of exchange for land based assets which in reality is all some of the offshore tax havens really are. What good is an asset holding to a crook if they have no means of secret exchange?

      --
      This message was not sent from an iPhone because Peter Sellers really was a deviated prevert without a dime for the call
    8. Re:A celestial tax haven is next? by SunTzuWarmaster · · Score: 1

      You can trade all the gold in the world for a 2013 China!

    9. Re:A celestial tax haven is next? by swb · · Score: 1

      I can't imagine gold as a great way to store wealth unless you plan to hold it for an extremely long time. I think it has too much near-term volatility to be much more than a long-horizon store of wealth.

    10. Re:A celestial tax haven is next? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      In the book Cryptonomicon they do!

      On planet Earth? Not so much!

    11. Re:A celestial tax haven is next? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      The mechanics are, they write down on a piece of paper that that is where the money was earned, and they keep it in a real bank somewhere else.

      The actual money went from a customer to the entity that they use to manage their CC merchant accounts. They just have some paperwork somewhere else that says, "Oh, that money is really owned by a whole different corporation!" and they just transfer it to another bank account they control at the same bank.

      For actual humans, it is equivalent to moving money from your checking account to your savings account, and then promising that your savings account really belongs to grandma you just have an agreement to do the accounting for her.

    12. Re:A celestial tax haven is next? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      300 cubic meters of gold would weigh close to 7000 tons and would be about $7 trillion at current prices. I think your math might be a bit off. You're off by a factor of about 30.

  13. Welcome to Narnia by Required+Snark · · Score: 2
    Great business climate, a diligent work force, lots of room to grow and bring up your family right.

    Give me a call when you realize that My Little Pony is not a documentary.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
  14. Offshore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are these guys looking for tax evasion, ah?

    1. Re:Offshore by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

      That would be great. It's not going to work though. Criminals don't care about your proclamations, they'll steal your stuff anyway.

      --
      Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
  15. Re:Perhaps a different name would’ve been be by Meneth · · Score: 2

    The Stargate SG-1 race, yes. I saw another Asgard get blown up by Surtr last week.

  16. Re:I nominate.... by Rei · · Score: 0

    Sigh... it's built around a corruption either way, so you might as well.

    (It's "Ásgarðr" - the "Garden of the Æsir"; the Æsir are the gods in the main Norse pantheon)

    --
    The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new discoveries, is not âEureka!â(TM), but
  17. Still playing their game by Roodvlees · · Score: 1, Insightful

    By declaring yourself a country you recognize the legitimacy of a ruling class.
    The real solution of our problems can come when we can get people to give up on the belief in statism.
    Which has no moral validity. Nor does it solve any problem.
    It's sad that even people who woke up from the fairy tale of religion still believe in the fairy tale of governments.

    --
    Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    1. Re:Still playing their game by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1, Redundant

      Smash the state! Yeah, man, pass the bong! Anitfa 4 Lyfe!

      The real smash the state is being done these days by people like Trump and Steve Bannon. Be careful what you ask for.

      "There's an elephant in the room with us today. We have studiously attempted to work our way around it and even left it unremarked. But the fact is... executive bureaucracies (are permitted) to swallow huge amounts of core judicial and legislative power and concentrate federal power in a way that seems more than a little difficult to square with the Constitution of the framers' design. Maybe the time has come to face the behemoth."

      -- Neil Gorusch

      Obviously strongly prefer normal democratic and constitutional politics. But if it comes to it, prefer the deep state to the Trump state.

      -- Bill Kristol

      And people still say that the deep state doesn't exist.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    2. Re:Still playing their game by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      Cut and pasted from some undergraduate anarchist society leaflet was thats?

      Human nature is tribal and possesive of land, and humans divide into leaders and followers. This alone gives rise to rulers and states and leaderless consensus has failed in every single off-the-grid hippy commune its been tried in. If you think otherwise then you're either a naive adolescent/student or a fool.

    3. Re:Still playing their game by bradley13 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You are overly cynical; governments do solve a problem. Or, at least, they are supposed to solve a problem. The primary purpose of a government is to promulgate and enforce rules on personal interactions; these are the laws. The secondary purpose is to provide the citizens a means of acting collectively, for example, to hire police to enforce those laws.

      In a free-wheeling anarchy (which is the libertarian utopia), there is no state, there is only private power. The dream is that the good folk will outnumber the bad folk, and be able to dominate the society. Nice dream, but human nature will ensure that this does not happen. Power will tend to accumulate in the hands of violent sociopaths. They may initially sell themselves as the hired protectors, but it won't be long before they demand protection money. Eventually, they will abuse the libertarian utopia to establish themselves as tyrants. By all reports, many people living under effective Mafia rule in Sicily are quite happy - as long as you are in the inner circle, it's great. It's less great for everyone else, especially those people who want to opt out of the protection racket, and get their kneecaps broken.

      Government is an attempt by the "good guys" to solve these problems. We haven't got it quite right yet - our governments take on lives of their own, and get out of control. The current batch is going to have to be replaced at some point (and the politicians losing power are not going to like this). But first, we need better ideas, and we don't have them:

      - The progressives yearning for communism, socialist or fascism (which is just socialism under another name) want to go backwards to stuff that worked even worse than what we have now.

      - The conservatives basically want to "conserve" what we have now, which has mutated into crony-capitalism.

      - The few libertarian idealists effectively want anarchy, which is the short road to tyranny.

      What we need is an incremental improvement on democracy and capitalism, because those systems are - so far - the best we have managed. Some iteration that limits the accumulation of money and power into the hands of the 1%, while at the same time avoiding "bread and circuses" for the populist masses. The development of this incremental improvement is left as an exercise for the reader :-)

      --
      Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
    4. Re:Still playing their game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately statism has a lot of validity, moral or not. The validity of "comply or be arrested/imprisoned/executed" backed by people who can wield and use weapons with impunity. You can claim the moral high ground but once your face has been smashed by a boot, what does it do for you?

    5. Re:Still playing their game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ^Great post. Right on target. EVERY form of government will eventually have those who hold power and have the opportunity to abuse it. History has proven that happens without exception.

    6. Re:Still playing their game by dj245 · · Score: 1

      By declaring yourself a country you recognize the legitimacy of a ruling class. The real solution of our problems can come when we can get people to give up on the belief in statism. Which has no moral validity. Nor does it solve any problem. It's sad that even people who woke up from the fairy tale of religion still believe in the fairy tale of governments.

      A legitimate purpose of government in my opinion is to solve problems caused by the tragedy of the commons. The free market or individuals cannot solve such problems easily. A good example is lighthouses.

      Most people would recognizes that lighthouses are needed, but if governments did not build them, who would? Anyone can make use of a lighthouse, so if a shipping company built them, they would be at a competitive disadvantage compared to other companies who did not incur the expense. You could argue that companies or individuals might form co-ops or boating associations who build lighthouses, but what incentive would there be to join such organizations and pay fees? Society as a whole loses when ships run aground- packages or shipments may be lost, oil may be spilled, etc. which costs society in the form of environmental cleanups and higher costs of goods.

      This is a clear problem of the tragedy of the commons and a problem that is easily solved by making everyone share the cost. And for that you need an organization that collects money from everyone and administers how it is distributed to solve such problems. Government may overreach in many areas but there will always be functions that only an organization that acts like a government can provide.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
    7. Re:Still playing their game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are also independents, who want to neither lead nor follow. Unfortunately, the leaders don't like those who will not follow, so they'll use their hordes of brainwashed followers to crush any independents.

    8. Re:Still playing their game by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      Those independants can go off and live in their caves with their guns , pickups and tins of food (all made by the society they think they're not part of) and contribute nothing if they want, but they can't expect the rest of the world to change for them.

      "Unfortunately, the leaders don't like those who will not follow, so they'll use their hordes of brainwashed followers to crush any independents."

      Oh dear, been reading the anarchists cookbook have we? You'll grow out of it.

    9. Re:Still playing their game by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      Most people would recognizes that lighthouses are needed, but if governments did not build them, who would?

      Not the best example, perhaps, since private lighthouses have existed, as pointed out by R. H. Coase in his article The Lighthouse in Economics in the October 1974 issue of The Journal of Law and Economics. There are any number of ways that so-called "public goods" can be provided without resorting to force.

      By the way, the situation you described is not "the tragedy of the commons", which is invariably a product of interference in the market, but is rather generally referred to as the "free rider problem". Commons are not a naturally stable phenomenon. The tragedy of the commons is solved very simply by privatizing (i.e. homesteading) the commons, and thus giving someone a vested interest in maintaining it. A tragedy results only when the commons is forced to remain common, with no owner to decide how it will be used. (When a government "solves" the tragedy of the commons it does so merely by seizing the commons and acting in place of the owner. However, since the government claims to represent both present and future users of the property, while lacking any means of economic calculation, the result tends toward irreconcilable conflicts of interest.) The "free rider problem" is somewhat less tractable in cases where exclusion is not an option, but nonetheless force is not the answer.

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    10. Re:Still playing their game by Rakarra · · Score: 2

      And people still say that the deep state doesn't exist.

      The "deep state" is one of those vague-sounding phrases that means whatever you really want it to mean, and you can blame just about any action on it without needing any proof that the "deep state" exists. The wonderful thing about conspiracy theories is that any evidence of them is damning, and lack of evidence is even more proof of the influence they wield.

    11. Re:Still playing their game by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      This is an absolutely fantastic post, absolutely not worth the Troll tag.

    12. Re:Still playing their game by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      The real solution of our problems can come when we can get people to give up on the belief in statism.
      Which has no moral validity. Nor does it solve any problem.

      "The government" is the only real alternative to "gangs which enforce their own laws." You get one of the two. You're not getting a third option.

    13. Re: Still playing their game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah fuck cooperation and getting healthcare!

    14. Re:Still playing their game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a troll because he claims fascism is socialism under a different name and that was demostrably not true given the one example we've seen (1930-40s Germany). This post is only "fantastic" because you agree. If you tear it apart, it doesn't defend its own claims nor stand on its own merits. It's pure opinion and conjecture.

    15. Re:Still playing their game by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      Fascism is a perversion of socialism, at least in 1930s Germany. It was the Socialist German Workers' Party, an attempt to lure workers away from Communism using anti-bourgeois and anti-capitalist rhetoric to bring in those attracted to Communism away by providing an alternative. They saw the capitalistic system as being dominated by Jews, a way to introduce the left-leaning towards nationalism and racism. Anton Drexler founded it as a way to synthesize volkisch nationalism with economic socialism to gain support from the lower and middle classes. The DAP promoted profit-sharing instead of Socialism to create a German "peoples' community" without class or party lines. They were opposed to non-nationalist political movements, like the Communist Party of Germany. Adolph Hitler was originally recruited by the Barvarian government to infiltrate the DAP, but he ended up impressing them with his oratory skills and was persuaded by Drexler to join. They were not anti-socialist, they were anti-Bolshevik. Hitler was not a Socialist, but party leaders were -- they added "Socialist" to the new party name "National Socialist German Workers' Party" over his objection.

      Hitler worked through the 1920s to accumulate more power for the DAP and the NSDAP and Nazi Germany dropped all of its trappings of socialism or even fascism, and became totalitarian.

    16. Re:Still playing their game by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Then why is a respected commentator like Bill Kristol talking about it? These aren't crazy conspiracy theories, this is the world we live in. An unelected government does exist, and it does not think it should obey the commands of the elected government. Heck, a year ago would you have believed that Kevin Spacey was a pedo? Or George Takei? Or that the Podesta Group was hired by Paul Manafort on behalf of foreign clients because the company was perceived to have a direct line to powerful politicians, like Hillary Clinton? The chairman of one major presidential campaign colluded with a brother of the *other* major presidential campaign chairman to enrich themselves by secretly advancing the interests of a foreign adversary. That happened.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    17. Re:Still playing their game by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

      Antifa wants the state to hold their hand and create a safe space, that's only going to increase the power of government.

      --
      Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    18. Re:Still playing their game by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

      I guess as a statist you buy into the propaganda that justifies government power.
      So I'll explain how everyone would benefit from the end of government, no danger!

      Most of this stuff comes from Larken Rose, here he explains how bad the state problem is:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
      What will happen is that the state governments take over from the federal government.
      They already have the potential to do everything a statist might want.
      But okay, lets assume that people give up on all rulers in one go, not just the federal level.

      What will happen is entrepeneurs will start creating a lot more jobs because they're no longer being held down by government.
      Poor people will finally have the freedom to work and no more welfare, so they'll get to work.
      There will be a small portion, 1% to 2% of society that needs help or can't find work right away, they will be helped by charity.

      Women will mostly go back to the situation before the 60's because it just makes more sense for them.
      Their husband will be able to make enough money for the family, so they can stay home and take care of the kids.
      Which is much more enjoyable than pushing papers in an office, it also gives them more time to help out in the community.
      Freedom to do anything you want sounds fun but with that freedom comes the responsibility for your own safety.
      And as feminists have shown, women really don't want to take responsibility for anything, especially safety.
      Btw, neither do men, but women choose men who take responsibility because that's how you make money.

      It's much better for the kids, now they're being sacrificed to the government and indoctrinated into obedience.
      Which is not fun. It requires stomping out their curiosity for learning new things.
      They will also start getting jobs at young ages again because it's great for your career and it shapes you as a human.

      Saying you believe the government fear mongering (to justify their power) of what will happen without them, makes you sound like religious people claiming we need people to fear god or they will misbehave. Many people who say this do so because it benefits them, they don't care that it comes at the expense of the rest of society. They depend on government for their income, teachers, unions, journalists, feminists, etc. Will whine a lot and very loud. When they're ignored for a few days, they get a productive job instead.

      More people will buy guns because they understand that nobody's going to protect them.
      Not that they're any less safe, in fact, they'll be more safe because criminals are no longer being protected by the state.
      People can now retaliate against criminals and are much more likely to have a gun in order to do so.

      People will become more rational, irrationality is something government creates because it promises to prevent people from suffering negative consequences.
      Which is a very old process, pretty much every successful civilization collapsed, I think because of this mechanism:
      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7...

      --
      Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    19. Re:Still playing their game by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

      I agree voluntarists sometimes become afraid, drop voluntarist principles, and flee back to the safe feeling of false political promises.

      --
      Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    20. Re:Still playing their game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I'm wiling to entertain a third option, provided that a person proposing a third option has a convincing plan of how it avoids being either a) arrested by "the government" it's trying to replace or b) beaten to death by the nearest gang.

    21. Re:Still playing their game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And will everyone have a magical unicorn to ride them across rainbows? I have news for you. Your fantasy world has been tried before. By and large, it always leads to lots of people dead in ditches or raped and murdered before their homes are looted and burned down. Eventually, the leaders of the stronger bandit hordes either put down roots and become feudal lords or they get wiped out when the people they prey on band together and form armies to fight them. And then the leaders of those armies become feudal lords. Then they oppress the peasantry and rape and murder them and the feudal lord next door for the next thousand years ago, while marrying off their daughters mostly to cousins and uncles and so forth, but occasionally to another unrelated feudal lord. The power consolidates over time until countries that once had hundreds of petty kings have just one monarch and a ruling class of Nobility whose behavior is gradually tamed until they get to the point where it's barely even worth murdering each other anymore. Meanwhile the peasants get more and more influence via their representatives to the monarch and eventually the power of the monarch is actually being controlled by a body of elected representatives. Some influential documents get written and form ideas about fundamental rights of humans (you know, unless they're just women, or the wrong color or religion or social status). Then eventually something like today is reached. And it's far, far from perfect, but it still provides an environment where persons like yourself are actually free to come along and suggest that we tear it all down and start back at square one and you somehow imagine that it will just magically be perfect and everyone will act honorably and it will all be for the best in the best of all possible worlds.

      The trouble really is human nature. You naively believe that government is the cause of the flaws in human nature, but it just isn't. People will still behave badly without a government. A small portion of them will behave _very_ badly and those guns that everyone has can only stop them from running amok in Fantasyland. Consider the recent church shooting. That guy actually was shot by a member of the public, but it was after he'd already shot 46 people, killing more than half of them. It was after he was already done and had left the church. True, he might have gone after another target. Historically though, mass shooters usually just go off somewhere and shoot themselves at that point. The point is, having your own gun is almost never effective against an ambush attack or a big group that gangs up on smaller groups or individuals.

    22. Re:Still playing their game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Private" lighthouses have always relied on government grants of one kind or another, or have belonged to or had payment arrangements with port authorities who were essentially small governments. Also, how is the "Tragedy of the commons" a result of interference in the market?

    23. Re:Still playing their game by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

      Are you talking about socialism? Yes that has been a utter disaster every time it's tried.
      From about 1990 to about 2005 Somalia had no government and life improved for them:
      http://www.peterleeson.com/Bet...

      Without government holding them down people can buy guns and defend against bandits and maffia just fine.
      Note that the countries with the most crime have the most intrusive and anti-freedom governments.
      Yes we had rulers before, like kings, they're no better, just another form of having rulers.
      The problem with government is that they have the right to initiate violence against peaceful people, same applies to a king.

      Yes some people are very bad, are you saying the political process selects the good people?
      The last US election just had the worst two possible options in their history, the political process seduces the worst criminals to seek power.

      Yes, the recent church shooting is the perfect example of why good people need to have guns.
      1. The guy was able to murder 26 people (not 46) because none of them had a gun, it was a gun free zone.
      2. Gun free zones only affect good people, the bad people will still have guns when they want to do bad things.
      3. According to gun regulations the guy should not have been allowed to buy a gun on three accounts. So your solution has been tried and it failed utterly. The government can't do anything good, that's the fairy tale people like you believe in.
      4. Even though government is such an abysmal failure you want to entrust it with your safety. Even though far more people die in mass shootings where they can keep going until the police stop them compared to when a citizen stops them: http://www.freerepublic.com/fo....
      More reasons:
      5. Kids used to bring their guns to school for shooting practice, no school shootings then.
      6. Regular crime also gets worse when people aren't allowed to defend themselves, here are the stats specifically for murder in the UK, where they have almost no guns: https://crimeresearch.org/2013...
      7. The lie on the australian gun buyback program is that things first got worse and then after they de-regulated guns a bit, and people got more guns, things got better again https://crimeresearch.org/wp-c...
      8. States in the US have a relative high amount of freedom and have a wide variety of gun regulations. This allows different solutions to gun regulation to be tried out. And it hasn't worked, note that you never hear democrats talk about the stats on gun regulation. Even they know such a lie would be too blatant. In the US there is a strong correlation between gun ownership and crime, that's why the Democrats only argument is emotional.
      9. Mass shooters shoot themselves when they're being shot at by cops or citizens. If you're going to wait until they're done murdering, you're going to be waiting a very long time.

      --
      Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    24. Re:Still playing their game by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

      One more thing.
      There's no magic in voluntarism, it's about letting people do what they think is best.
      Why would forcing people to do things they think are bad make things better?

      --
      Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    25. Re:Still playing their game by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

      Hitler was far more socialist than fascist.
      The first 8 points of his manifesto where German nationalism, the remaining 17 where socialist:
      https://simple.wikipedia.org/w...
      Also, his mass murdering of people is perfectly in line with what other socialist governments did.
      I include communism in that as another way to implement the theory/ideas in socialism.
      Mussolini, far more fascist, imprisoned people, but he didn't mass murder them.
      So the main problem with Hitler was his socialism.

      This is a whole book proving my statements about all government:
      http://mensenrechten.org/wp-co...
      I fully agree with Larken Rose on the issue of government.
      Note that we're making a bold claim:
      No good thing can ever be done through government.
      All you need to prove me wrong is show a single case where the presence of government had a net positive effect.
      But all you have is fairy tales.

      --
      Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    26. Re: Still playing their game by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

      Because government destroys those aspects of life?
      http://www.investopedia.com/ar...
      http://www.peterleeson.com/Bet...
      http://mensenrechten.org/wp-co...
      Government forces people to do things, which is the opposite of cooperation.
      Governments that provide health care to their people have the worst quality health care of all.
      In Canada pets get better health care than humans, because gov hasn't destroyed the health care system for pets.

      --
      Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    27. Re:Still playing their game by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

      Government is a gang, the delusion of statism means people view their crimes as legitimate.
      It's just a guarantee that you get violently oppressed.
      Note that the worst organized crime happens in countries where the government implements strict gun regulation, like Mexico.
      Please consider my arguments on guns in another comment: https://slashdot.org/comments....

      --
      Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    28. Re:Still playing their game by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Study some real history.

      The Socialists and the Nazis were at odds. The Nazis began as the National Socialist German Worker's Party in the 20s, and did in fact have nationalist and socialist wings until the socialist wing was removed with extreme prejudice in the 1930s. This didn't stop the Socialism from staying part of the propaganda (there's stuff in Mein Kampf about never changing the propaganda even if the core beliefs change - a way of keeping on message to the masses).

      If National Socialism had been socialist, it would not have had the support from the big industrialists it got (Goering was the Nazi most dealing with them). The big industrialists would have been removed from power if it had been socialist. Industry would not have been business as normal.

      For most of the war, Germany was less socialist than the US was during the war with the War Production Board. The WPB would assign certain companies to license-build aircraft from another manufacturer, without needing approval from the license holder, to give one example. This didn't happen in the Third Reich.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    29. Re:Still playing their game by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Hitler was fascist. He was ultra-nationalist, racist, and a lot of other things, but he wasn't socialist. If you believe any of his propaganda, you're a fool. If you look at how the German economy functioned under Hitler, it was distinctly capitalist. Mass murder is clearly not a socialist characteristic. Look how many Chinese and others died in WWII, and not even the people who think Hitler was socialist are stupid enough to think wartime Japan was.

      Since government has done a tremendous amount of good things through history, it's obvious that you're determined to reject facts in favor of your ideology.

      (Yeah, government has done a tremendous amount of bad things, too.)

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    30. Re:Still playing their game by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      To give an example, overfishing is an example of tragedy of the commons. It's in everyone's individual financial interest to overfish, but when everyone overfishes everyone is worse off.

      It would be theoretically possible to divide fishing grounds into territories for each fishing boat, but the fish would not respect the boundaries. It would still be economically rational to overfish, since fish will be coming from neighboring territories.

      It's in a business's interest to pollute because it's cheaper to not properly dispose of pollutants. Pollution travels across boundaries. In the current case of carbon dioxide, any release of CO2 into the atmosphere affects everyone.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    31. Re:Still playing their game by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

      One more thing, I'm very well aware that other socialists violently opposed Hitler, they even called themselves antifa.
      That doesn't suggest that Hitler therefore wasn't a socialist himself, they're ideologies where very similar.
      It's basically national socialism vs international socialism.

      --
      Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    32. Re:Still playing their game by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

      I'm very well aware that the people, buildings, boots, etc are real.
      That doesn't validate the concept of government.
      I'm trying to convince people to give up their belief in government, so those bad people lose their power.
      Just like the priest only has power because people believe in religion.
      http://mensenrechten.org/wp-co...

      --
      Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
    33. Re:Still playing their game by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      No. Have you any idea what socialism means? Try to find any trace of it in Nazi Germany. The totalitarianism was on a firm capitalist base, and Hitler didn't particularly care about individual Germans and their welfare.

      Socialism, like capitalism, is a materialist philosophy. Socialism in the economic sense means the ownership of the means of production by the workers, directly or indirectly. The more modern meaning is to provide assistance for the less fortunate.

      National Socialism was a mystic philosophy based on the Will and the People. It doesn't make much sense because it wasn't intended to. It did not care about individual members of the race, only the race as a whole, The economy was firmly capitalist.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    34. Re:Still playing their game by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

      "You are overly cynical;"
      But right? This smells like you're only going to come up with bullshit excuses, like an apologist for a religion would.

      "governments do solve a problem."
      No they don't, just claim to.

      "Or, at least, they are supposed to solve a problem."
      Yes, we've heard many fairy tales on this.

      "The primary purpose of a government is to promulgate and enforce rules on personal interactions;"
      Wow that's extreme. Would that include these comments? Or must it be an interaction irl. Even though western governments totally agree with you they've thrown thousands of people in jail for saying things online that those governments didn't like. Usually it's people complaining about the consequensed of government policy.
      You probably don't mean it that extreme, but governments don't care about intentions, they will do what they can get away with.

      "these are the laws"
      Laws are commandments people respect. But they would not respect such commandments from normal people. Meaning you view government as above normal people. It's fine for them to command people around and it's for the 'normal' people to obey these commands. This allows those in governments to do anything they want. And in reality we've seen government commit the most horrific atrocities, only slowed down by how much the people resist them.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      "The secondary purpose is to provide the citizens a means of acting collectively"
      That's a terrible idea. People totally agree on what to do, even when they have the same information.
      Here's a list of some difference in principles progressives and conservatives tend to value the most (left and right are historical accidents):
      creativity - tradition
      personal freedom - security
      equality - economic freedom
      Of course these people can't agree on what to do!

      Then there is the economic issue. Economical actors have all kinds of transactions they would like to engage in and that would benefit them. But very ofthen those transactions are detrimental to other in the transaction. In the free market it would be far too costly to force others to engage in such transactions. Anyone who tried would also be shunned by anyone else in the market. However with government this changes. It's realitively cheap to influence politicians to force those other parties to engage in the transactions, compared to the massive benefits.
      This is called public choice theory: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
      People can organize without government just fine: business (not a corporation, that's a government protection from consequence), sports clubs, mutual aid societies (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lReWpkn0dU), etc
      Organizing within government is the opposite to cooperating because it always includes initiating violence (or the threat of) against peaceful people.

      "for example, to hire police to enforce those laws."
      What justifies stealing in order to get what you want? Boing developed a new Airbus, it cost a lot, would it be okay for them to steal that money? It's really very selfish to support government stealing stuff for you to get what you want.

      "In a free-wheeling anarchy (which is the libertarian utopia), there is no state, there is only private power. The dream is that the good folk will outnumber the bad folk"
      Which is what happens. After China mass murdered their own population because the government had so much power, they started allowing their own people some private property again and hundreds of millions escaped poverty because of it.
      Even in a country like Somalia thing improved between 1990 and 2005, when they didn't have government: http://www.peterleeson.com/Bet...

      "and be able to dominate the society."
      Would you allow that? I would not, I would buy a gun and defe

      --
      Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
  18. Re:I nominate.... by deviated_prevert · · Score: 1

    Sigh... it's built around a corruption either way, so you might as well.

    (It's "Ásgarðr" - the "Garden of the Æsir"; the Æsir are the gods in the main Norse pantheon)

    Send your data to the satellite and chances are it will encoded it with lyrical excerpts from Götterdämmerung. Want to bet that the access keys will be something funky like Ragnarök, who knows it might be really easy to crack with Austrian crack heads thinking up the idea and selling the product.

    --
    This message was not sent from an iPhone because Peter Sellers really was a deviated prevert without a dime for the call
  19. What domain extension? by Max_W · · Score: 1

    I did not understand - what is the domain extension?

  20. Re:Perhaps a different name would’ve been be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That's called a joke, son.

    Also, Asgard on Stargate.

  21. Can I open a corporation there? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How high are tax rates in Asgardia on Intellectual Property Rights? Do Mossack Fonseca or Appleby have a dependancy there?

  22. Re:I nominate.... by Opportunist · · Score: 1, Troll

    Would it make you happy if we sent the Democrats too?

    I know it would make me happy...

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  23. Re:MUNICH says BYE-BYE to Linus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do these People look like they could handle Linux?

    https://regmedia.co.uk/2017/11...

    Let them drown in Windows.

  24. Ballmer, is that you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You forgot to take your meds, didn't you?

  25. Yeah, it sounds goofy. However... by wjcofkc · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I think the timing is about spot of for this to be forward thinking to be not too forward thinking. The new space race is on. This time it's not just governments. Commercial interests are bent on getting people off of the planet. Between low earth orbit trips and colonizing Mars, capitalism and new enabling technologies may just be what our species needs to make up for the last 50 years of not doing much and even race past where we should already be. Human space flight has always been about politics first. I am not sure that we would have yet put people in space at all, let alone on the moon if there had not been political interests. The size of a milk carton be damned. That people can come together announce this crazy idea while also be able to launch a satellite at all is remarkable. Look at how we are taking it for granted. That in itself makes it all the incredible. So when you combine the new and newly realized commercial interests in put people in space and keeping them there combined with the new political interests prompting the governments of the world to race to the moon and stake a claim while they can, we may just be seeing the beginning of humanities future in space that should have already been realized. We just might yet survive ourselves after all

    I just woke up and this could have been written better. But you get the idea.

    --
    Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
    1. Re:Yeah, it sounds goofy. However... by hey! · · Score: 1

      You can see this particular impulse as dovetailing with the rise of cryptocurrencies. Now that the technologies enable groups of private individuals to do so, they are attempting to develop a sphere of action that is outside the control of traditional national sovereign entities.

      But even more so with this than cryptocurrencies, people aren't really opting out of the existing systems; they're trying to establish a kind of parallel identity free of traditional constraints. I doubt many "citizens" of Asgardia are willing to be bound by its laws, or forgo the legal protections of terrestrial citizenship to rely solely on the Asgardian "citizenship".

      Nor if they truly renounced their traditional citizenship do I suspect they'd find Asgardian "citizenship" that satisfying. Civilization is about compromises people make in order to gain the benefits of living with other people. People alway chafe under those limintations, but historically barbarian invaders rapidly assimilate and become civilized too because it's a net win. But perhaps in the future people will find a way to split the difference, to be entirely civilized in one part of their lives and entirely free in another.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    2. Re: Yeah, it sounds goofy. However... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      50 years from now no one is going to be ANY closer to Mars.

      China FAKES ASTRONAUTS IN POOLS.

  26. Asgardia supports Catalonia independence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The SOC (Secretary of Communications) of Asgardia stated that they support Catalonia independence, and respect the will of the people to decide their leaders and governance democratically. Also up here there are lots of space free for everyone to establish and you are welcome too to make a free orbiting Catalonia.

  27. Philip Kaplan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is Kaplan (of FuckedCompany fame) the leader of Asgardia? Sounds like one of his concoctions.

  28. Re: I nominate.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    can we appoint Trump as the first resident?

  29. Re: I nominate.... by Opportunist · · Score: 0

    As long as the rest follows, anything to make you happy.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  30. Re:I nominate.... by jeremyp · · Score: 0

    lying hillary

    I don't know how anybody has the nerve to write this after the year of wall to wall lying we've had from the victor in that election.

    --
    All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
  31. Re:Perhaps a different name would’ve been be by jeremyp · · Score: 1

    Asgard is not a place, it's a people.

    --
    All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
  32. Re: I nominate.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who is "we", sand cockroaches? Yes, sure.

  33. How many members of the Parliament by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can we fit on a satellite and launch into space? There's only one way to know: let's make an experiment using our existing elected representatives!

    (that kinds of reminds me of the middle age debate about how many angels can fit on a needle's head... hehe)

  34. Re:Perhaps a different name would’ve been be by mjwx · · Score: 4, Informative

    Asgard is not a place, it's a people.

    Actually it is a place in Norse Mythology. Its the world where the Norse gods lived, hence Stargate used it for the Asgardians (note they were mostly named after gods in Norse mythology). Midgard was the term for Earth if you were interested.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  35. Re:I nominate.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Any alleged "lying" by Trump never lead to american citizens being murdered by CIA proxy terrorists.

    Anyone advocating for a liar who's responsible for murders is an accessory, a tool of crime.

  36. Re:I nominate.... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    Well you see, Hillary's lies are lies, and Hillary's truths are damn dirty lies. On the other hand, Trump's lies are just "alternative facts."

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  37. It begins by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    The first step toward making Expelled From Paradise a reality.

    I call dibs on Angela Balzac.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  38. Hack in and rule by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    If I hack into the satellite and take over control, does that make me the ruler of Asgardia?

    1. Re:Hack in and rule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I hack into the satellite and take over control, does that make me the ruler of Asgardia?

      no, it would make you the powner

    2. Re:Hack in and rule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm telling you, pwn rhymes with sewn

  39. Re:I nominate.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    lying hillary

    I don't know how anybody has the nerve to write this after the year of wall to wall lying we've had from the victor in that election.

    Well, except for longtime Lying Hillary! confidant Donna Brazile, who documents a litany of Lying Hillary!, err, lying.

  40. How to get people to "live" there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just upload and run OpenSIM and give accounts to the 300,000 people that signed up.

  41. Hmm, fascinating by Sqreater · · Score: 2

    Could I upload one of my Second Life avatars to live there as a citizen?

    --
    E Proelio Veritas.
    1. Re:Hmm, fascinating by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only if you're a citizen.

  42. "He won, get over it" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe you should stop crying about crooked Hillary all the time. She's not president.

  43. Hey by EmeraldBot · · Score: 1
    --
    "Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
  44. Space Odyssey 2017 by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    "My God, It's full of porn!"

  45. Re:I nominate.... by psycho12345 · · Score: 1

    Nah, he just gets Russians killed. But hey, its not Americans so it's ok, according to Bannoites such as yourself.

  46. Sounds like a yuge financial scam is comming... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The name seems picked by a 4th years old fascinated by the Thor movies or a StarGate fan or a white supremacist, really, Assgardia? (Sorry, I can't believe more people haven't done that joke).

    I remember that from time to time someone keeps making its own country (there is always somenoe that wants to ,make the new Caiman Island, Switzerland or Germany) and after a while things start going not that well.

  47. Re:Perhaps a different name would’ve been be by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps you should go see the new Thor movie.

  48. Re: I nominate.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Normal like our insane president little fingers or the pedophile the Republicans are now supporting in Alabama?

  49. What is this? A space station for ants? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How can we be expected to have people colonize here if they can't even fit inside the nation? I don't wanna hear your excuses! The building has to be at least three times bigger than this!

  50. Re:I nominate.... by Rakarra · · Score: 2

    Ah yes, here we go again. If you don't like the Republican platform or Republican values, then the only other option is that you were a big Hillary booster and are so so sad that she lost.

    You can shove your false dichotomy somewhere else.

  51. Re:I nominate.... by Rakarra · · Score: 3, Funny

    It takes a snowflake to to know one, eh?

    We had to listen you you Nazis and your KKK brethren for eight years; we're just returning the favor. Paybacks are a bitch eh?

    Can't wait for the midterms. If your side loses are you going to be the gracious losers you seem to think we should be? No? I thought not.

    fuckin' crybaby winners are the worst.

    The wonderful thing about this post is it's vague enough that I can't tell which side he's on.

  52. Gonna be short lived... by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

    At ISS altitude, the "nation" will only last a couple of years before atmospheric drag brings it down.

  53. Re:Perhaps a different name would’ve been be by Rakarra · · Score: 1

    I have to imagine that this Asgard project predates Thor: Ragnarok, but it is fitting that the physical land of Asgard is now gone, and what we have left is spaceship Asgard, new home to the Asgardians.

  54. Re:Perhaps a different name would’ve been be by djfunkisdead · · Score: 1

    SPOILER ALERT!!! Oh wait...you already read that, didn't you?

  55. Nerds suck at naming things. by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

    Sorry, but "Asgardia" sounds like something itchy you treat with a cream or lotion. :-)

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  56. Re:Perhaps a different name would’ve been be by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    No. Most of the Asgard became enlightened, and "Ascended" to another more advanced form of existence. Those who remained were the ones at an evolutionary dead end because they had altered their DNA too much for them to Ascend; and furthermore they also could no longer reproduce, and were all going to die from the DNA problems. Most of them elected to destroy their outposts to prevent the technology from falling into evil hands and causing a horrible legacy. They blew up their main remaining planet. But it was only "suicide" in the sense of shutting off a life support machine; they were dying and were beyond any hope. Most of them had already Ascended successfully, though. And some lived on.

  57. Re:Perhaps a different name would’ve been be by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    From that link that you spammed without reading:

    Telling a joke is a cooperative effort;[9][10] it requires that the teller and the audience mutually agree in one form or another to understand the narrative which follows as a joke.

    If you failed to achieve a mutually agreed effort for a joke to be understood, then it wasn't even a joke; it was only a failed attempt at humor.

  58. Re:Worked great in Somalia by Roodvlees · · Score: 1

    Why downvote?
    Life got better for the people in the period of 1990 to 2005 when Somalia didn't have a government:
    http://www.peterleeson.com/Bet...

    --
    Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
  59. Re:Perhaps a different name would’ve been be by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    "Thor: Ragnarok" does suggest catastrophic changes to anyone halfway familiar with the mythology.

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  60. Re: I nominate.... by KingBenny · · Score: 1

    how does this lead back to hillary, trump and niggurs on crackers cheese ? exactly how ? cos the united lobbies are centered on the world map ?
    pfff ..
    i was one of the pre-subscribers to asgardia ... then i saw the guy, in like the most boring grey marketeer suit on the website SELLING MERCHANDISE before it even lifted off so
    i havent actually heard anything about it since then since i immediately lost interest

    --
    Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?