Slashdot Mirror
Google Collects Android Users' Locations Even When Location Services Are Disabled (qz.com)
Google has been collecting Android phones' locations even when location services are turned off, and even when there is no carrier SIM card installed on the device, an investigation has found. Keith Collins, reporting for Quartz: Since the beginning of 2017, Android phones have been collecting the addresses of nearby cellular towers -- even when location services are disabled -- and sending that data back to Google. The result is that Google, the unit of Alphabet behind Android, has access to data about individuals' locations and their movements that go far beyond a reasonable consumer expectation of privacy. Quartz observed the data collection occur and contacted Google, which confirmed the practice. The cell tower addresses have been included in information sent to the system Google uses to manage push notifications and messages on Android phones for the past 11 months, according to a Google spokesperson. They were never used or stored, the spokesperson said, and the company is now taking steps to end the practice after being contacted by Quartz. By the end of November, the company said, Android phones will no longer send cell-tower location data to Google, at least as part of this particular service, which consumers cannot disable.
"Google, the unit of Alphabet behind Android,"
Who again?
Not that it makes it OK (at all), but raise your hand if you're surprised. No one? Yup, pretty much. Do No Evil went out the window a long time ago. Google is creepy.
Sex. Drugs, and Unix.
So tablets and other devices that don't have cellular capability are affected as well?
Twinstiq, game news
so ditch google services and use microG. I also disable firebase services from any apps that try to use it. Firebase lets the developer set up phoning home from the app and other such nonsense.
https://microg.org/
You must have no friends or family who you want to reply to when they send you a message
So you have a phone where you can't receive calls for 90% of the day. Congratulations.
"overcrowed" obviously means, when there are a lot of crows. :-)
They already map IP addresses rather precisely so all they need is the IP address your phone uses (through WiFi) to figure out where you are so long as one device somehow provided them its location from that IP address. In effect, your 'location' is turned on the moment somebody else has or had 'location' turned on while connected to that wifi access point.
Mind the frickin' laser...
I do not yet have a smart phone addiction. In fact I most often leave mine completely OFF unless I need to use it for something. Sometimes it stays off for a week at a time. Amazingly liberating.
Is apple any better? I might have to set aside my hate for apple after the fanless g4 power supply debacle.
Knowledge = Power
P= W/t
t=Money
Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
Google can't be trusted and will violate your privacy. They only stop doing it when they get caught, like in this instance.
Apple is releasing overpriced defective hardware because they can't be bothered to spend their pile of cash on QA and they are actively removing features we need and replacing them with new and unreliable ones that we never asked for in the first place.
As far as I know, Microsoft are out of the smartphone race. Not that I'd trust them any more than the other two, given their history.
So what? We all go back to dumb flip phones and pretend the whole thing never happened?
#DeleteFacebook
Unless. There will be no more than a modicum of outrage over this latest privacy transgression, outside of a few techie and personal freedom-centric circles.
"Google is spying on your location without your approval!"
"Hmmmm... Missed that, but: Did you hear Charlie Rose is a groper, too?"
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
In this day and age no consumer should have any "expectation of privacy" with an off-the-shelf electronic device. The entire "IoT" movement is simply there to collect more data on consumers. Cellphones are the ultimate tracking device, Google Maps has done this tracking for years to determine areas of high traffic, how else did people think Google knew certain sections of the highway were "red" and backed up and others were "green" with no delay?
2017-11-21 : Google releases new mapping service: ColonMaps.
#DeleteFacebook
In that case, unless you are using your phone as an MP3 player, you may as well just turn it off. Then you'll get even better battery life.
Yeah, right. http://technode.com/2017/11/02...
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
I have all google services quarantined and every google domain name blocked via AdAway. I'd like to know how they were shipping this information out to see if I have it blocked. The article is devoid of technical information.
"Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way." -- Anna Karenina by Leo Tolstoy
How unexpected, who would have expected it?
I'm sure it will be removed from the code base post haste and we can all rest assured it's all gone, forgotten and that our faith and trust can be restored.
Never do it again, promise.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
This is why I'm looking hard at the "Librem 5" linux phone for my next handset.
It has hardware switches for camera / wifi & bluetooth / baseband radio. When it says those services are off, it means it!
https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/
When I first started reading Slashdot about 20 years ago, I was impressed by the wonderfully liberal ideas that abound in the comments section of the site, for example,
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." (Benjamin Franklin)
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." (Evelyn Beatrice Hall)
They gave me character, and shaped my world view.
Fast forward 20 years, and I find this generation to be more than willing to give up their freedom for a little convenience, or to be with the trendy in Silicon Valley, or simply because they can't stand a certain politician.
Rather than just abandoning "don't be evil", Google has gone the opposite way and are following the maxim "let's be evil".
Question now is.. does it send the bundled data over during those 10% youâ(TM)re online?
By the end of November, the company said, Android phones will no longer send cell-tower location data to Google
I've got a bridge to sell you..
So you have a phone where you can't receive calls for 90% of the day. Congratulations.
Actually, he has a PDA (that also plays music, takes pictures, lets you read books/magazines, etc.) that can receive calls 10% of the day. Think about how anybody who works in a white collar profession uses their phone. I bet 90% PDA (that also plays music, takes pictures, lets you read books/magazines, etc.) with 10% phone split pretty accurately describes how most of them use their devices. It is pretty close for me.
Of course some people are tethered to their phone for voice/text connectivity, but there are plenty of folks who view their device as a tool, not a slave master.
Anyone with an Android OS (and probably iOS for that matter). has limited if any true control on their phones. They are basically trojans to collect data from you. One can try to install Cyanogen or LineageOS
https://download.lineageos.org...
There is Also PureOS. Because it's not Google default you don't get the Google app #$%, but becuase they are derived from Android, it's not clear whether the tracking functionality is fully under your control or not. But at least the odds are better than pure Google Android, which, frankly, it's not surprise they have little "gems" in data collection they make it impossible for you to turn of..like Microsoft Updates in Windows 8/10. (Anyone using these OS's cannot turn off a lot of the data collection or updates there either)
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
You could get a phone an foreign country that doesn't allow android, like China, get their OS and possibly use it in North America. the phone wouldn't be trying to send your location data to Google or any other USA company/agency. Of course it would be sending data to China, but they may be blocked by North American government firewalls or such, so that could be an interesting way to express your outrage. In general, if you don't want people to spy on you, say you know, and then say "no". there are a few creative ways. The catch-22 with freedom, is...it is far from free. You have to always be fighting for it, not with guns, but conviction.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
Since the beginning of 2017, Android phones have been collecting the addresses of nearby cellular towers -- even when location services are disabled -- and sending that data back to Google. The result is that Google, the unit of Alphabet behind Android, has access to data about individuals' locations and their movements that go far beyond a reasonable consumer expectation of privacy. [emphasis added]
This seems to be a giant leap between collecting cell tower data and knowing where individuals are that is totally dependent on their implementation. Just to be concrete/pedantic, let's suppose that message sent by each phone was "Here's a list of cell towers I can see: { ... }" and that the server processed this by incrementing a counter for tower in the list and nothing more. I think most of us would conclude that in that case Google has no information about any individual's location.
To be clear, I'm not asserting this is their implementation because I don't know. Maybe they are collecting the cell towers along with phone serial numbers, google account information and penis size into a giant location/dong database, in which case the summary might be accurate. But the author doesn't know that, or at least doesn't cite her sources. The best course of action would be for Google to publicly state which data are sent and how that data are persisted on the back end. Then we might be judging whether they were doing evil on actual facts rather than speculation.
Finally, a plea for sanity: telemetry is often implemented in awful, privacy-destroying ways. It is also often thoughtfully implemented in ways that preserve individual privacy. Take, for instance, a mobile web browser: there is world of difference between: "Version X.Y.Z, Serial XXYYZZ, at midgetclownporn.co.uk/vid/xdfj23, callstack follows" and another sending reports like "Version X.Y.Z, crashed twice at JS module, once in bookmarks module".
If you are unable or unwilling to see the difference, then you're not likely to be an effective advocate for privacy.
I remember that. I remember Governor Schwarzenegger. I remember Occupy Wall Street. And I remember Joe the Plumber. I am a news junkie.
I just missed the point of time when silicon valley hipsters start to label undesirable speech as "haram".
It's a good thing.
No, it's not. It's an evil thing. That some minor conveniences can be derived from it doesn't change that.
Or replace your OS with one that doesn't contain Google software.
has access to data about individuals' locations and their movements that go far beyond a reasonable consumer expectation of privacy
Err no. The "reasonable consumer" doesn't give a crap about their privacy providing pictures of their penises aren't shared on the internet, errr, except to people who they send them to on purpose.
Dick move yes (pun intended) but very few people will give a crap, especially no "reasonable consumers".
That's nothing. I carry around my cellphone without battery. Track that, Google!
Open Source Network Inventory for the masses! Kuwaiba
Ubuntu Touch kinda failed, smaller distro options are very hard to get and I don't really know the status of those (like Purism and whatnot)... anyone knows of non-Android Linux fully functional smartphones and tablets?
I just burned my 3rd attempt of installing a Linux distro on yet another chinese tablet that won't work well enough and has some weird lock in place to prevent people from changing the OS, I'm honestly tired of trying at this point. And I can't spend much on this, seems all ready made options are both hard to find and too pricey for what they are offering.
It has just been revealed all sorts of crap that my current brand of smartphone (OnePlus) goes to collect data plus stupidly insert root access into their devices eschewing any sort of good security practice. And now this.
Getting harder and harder to escape big brother these days.
I was so disappointed on iPhone 8/X this year. Bought an Android phone, many apps requested permission to access my contact, phone, and location. Could not take this! Bought an iPhone 8P at the end.
^(oo)^pig~
obligatory...
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper.
Trust anyone who says, "Trust me."
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Ex-wireless-telecom guy here. This sort of data collection doesn't get string location names from your phone; and I don't believe it gets coordinates. I'm a little rusty on my LTE architecture, but it would basically be the IP address of the eNodeB tower; maybe some information about the carrier company, maybe a public key. It would likely then check one or more of these things against a table of known installations. If the data isn't known, it basically gets tossed into the garbage as either invalid or not-useful data. If you were to successfully spoof, then, they probably wouldn't figure it out, and thus not have the opportunity to get mad about it. FWIW, if there was evidence that Google was using this information to point you to local advertisers, this story would've broken months ago, and angry privacy/ad-hating people would be losing their minds over it.
I am getting quite a bit of practice in wiping Google's stock from the Nexus 6, and cutting all ties to Google.
I wonder if and when I will do it to my own phone, and confine Google to the GApps Browser on F-Droid. Maybe soon.
But they do offer local advertisements and for me to do restaurant reviews, etc. They're using the data. That line about not using or saving the data is pure BS.
Unless your phone has a removable battery, it's always on, even when it's off.
You can set Airplane mode to with or without wifi. Airplane mode without wi-fi, you have no IP You don't talk to Google, Google doesn't talk to you. With wifi, at best, they can guess your ISP's location, but it is just as easily a VPN or other intermediate service, and those can be anywhere on the globe.
" ... By the end of November, the company said, Android phones will no longer send cell-tower location data to Google, at least as part of this particular service, which consumers cannot disable. ..."
Translation: we are very sorry that somebody discovered our homing data being transferred, by the end of November we will have made sure that nobody will be able to detect it anymore.
Just in case anyone has not yet received the memo. Carrier pigeons tend to be particularly unreliable this time of year.
I've had good luck with Yalp, which is available in F-Droid.
If you connect to cellular towers, it is tracked by the provider. What's the difference if Google has the information too? Do you actually trust Verizon more than Google?
Do you think that turning off your cellular connection and just using WiFi will help? Think again. Virtually every major site you connect to tracks your IP which will be the WiFi's IP. It's a simple database lookup from there. To pinpoint your location to within the WiFi range. Google has a bit more accuracy because they triangulate based on all WiFis your phone can see rather than just using the one IP, but all know approximately where you are.
Many people today drive vehicles that are tracked and don't even think about it.
If you walk down a city street, use an ATM, use a debit or credit card to pay at any business, and so many other things that people don't think about, you're tracked. How many times have you been called about credit cards in your name being used in two different places during a timespan that made travel from one to another impossible? Maybe that one isn't super common, but I've had it happen many times.
Location privacy is virtually dead. The ship has sailed. Anyone using fear of it to shock us today has some agenda of their own.
Open source for me forever. I don't own a smart phone precisely because of this constant drip of outrages. I never will own one that cannot be easily rooted and flushed of android or iOS.
Same with computers. Linux only forever. It's a shame linux still can't get power management right after how many decades? I have a desktop and a laptop that won't hibernate/sleep under mint. When they can consistently fix this windows and mac have no reason for living.
They offer local advertisements in conjunction with people activating their location data. Not with these transmissions of cell-tower info. If you use Google Maps for live directions, you are sending location data.
Camera app takes photo, (GPS disabled for this app) broadcasts photo to entire system.
Google Maps (with GPS) picks up the broadcast and tags the photo with location and uploads it.
You can't block Maps from using GPS.
Ergo, android permissions mean nothing because there is no permissions firewall.
Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.