The Winklevoss Twins Are Now Bitcoin Billionaires (theverge.com)

LOL by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-04 06:02 · Score: 5, Insightful

Try selling that off. I guarantee they won't get anywhere close to $1 billion, as the price drops while selling.

Re:LOL by goombah99 · 2017-12-04 06:06 · Score: 1

right. only billionaires if they sell but can't sell

--
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
Re:LOL by ArchieBunker · 2017-12-04 06:21 · Score: 1

What are you talking about? You can use tons of exchanges to cash in our out. Sure you take a percentage based transfer hit but come on. Hell buy gift cards from Amazon and resell them yourself.

--
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Re:LOL by Megol · 2017-12-04 06:25 · Score: 4, Interesting

That the value of bitcoins will reduce drastically if they try to cash out. And I'll add that the exchanges doesn't have to $$$ to give.
Re:LOL by religionofpeas · 2017-12-04 06:32 · Score: 1

For these kinds of amounts, it's probably better to do a direct trade with an investment fund or other rich person who wants to get in.
Re:LOL by SirMasterboy · 2017-12-04 06:37 · Score: 1

Bitcoin does over 6 billion a day in trade volume though. Would 1 billion really affect it that much? How about just do 100 million a day over 10 days? Or do it over a month.
Re:LOL by RhettLivingston · 2017-12-04 06:53 · Score: 1

There are many small-cap stocks out there whose price will be impacted if you sell $100K all at once. If you sold $1 billion in Apple stock in a single day, a large portion of its current average daily volume, you'd impact the price pretty dramatically. As with any asset that is only worth as much as the next buyer will pay, a mega-investor would have to sell Bitcoin at a pace compatible with the daily trade volume.
Given that the daily volume of bitcoin trade is topping $1 billion right now, you could probably sell the entire stake in a couple of weeks without severely impacting the price.
Even if they decided to be stupid and cause a crash, they'd walk away with vastly more than the $11 million they invested. I'd love that because it would create an awesome buying opportunity.
Re:LOL by leonbev · 2017-12-04 07:00 · Score: 1

Yeah... if someone got word that they were selling their stash, the value would probably get cut in half within 6 hours.
Just the kind of thing you want from something that's supposed to be a currency... wild price swings :)
Re:LOL by Streetlight · 2017-12-04 07:13 · Score: 1

If you owned one billion dollars in Apple stock and sold all of it all at once, provided there were instant buyers, you might get your one billion. If the stock tanked, it might not hurt you, just everyone else that owned Apple stock. The key is finding buyers all at once.

--
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
Re:LOL by RhettLivingston · 2017-12-04 08:32 · Score: 1

Yeh, good luck on that. You'd have to find a moment where there are sell orders for nearly six million shares without buy orders to match. You might find such a moment during a price plunge, but that wouldn't be a smart time to take advantage of it. Looking at the recent charts, I do see some end of day moments when 6 million shares traded, but those moments had buyers in the market for those shares. If you dumped your six million at that moment, you'd have 12 million shares for sale and be short on buyers. Simply put, you can't trade a fifth of Apple's daily volume all at once unless perhaps you found someone who would just purchase your stock direct.
Re:LOL by Zaelath · 2017-12-04 12:59 · Score: 1

Bitcoin does over 6 billion a day in trade volume
Says who? And how much of that volume is trading bitcoin for bitcoin?
When the trend is up, most of the orders are buy, you can bet your ass $100MM USD a day in sell orders would be noticed.
Re:LOL by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-04 13:20 · Score: 1

Waaa Waaa, I have no BTC and I must scream.
Re: LOL by UrbanMonk · 2017-12-04 13:41 · Score: 1

And when they do cash out the IRS will be there waiting.
Re:LOL by Gussington · 2017-12-04 16:21 · Score: 1

That the value of bitcoins will reduce drastically if they try to cash out.
I just checked Bittrex and $50k of BTC was sold in the last 60 seconds, and that is pretty normal all day every day.

And I'll add that the exchanges doesn't have to $$$ to give
Neither do banks or the share market, or the gold exchange for that matter. Money doesn't really get moved as cash in suitcases anymore. As long as it can be used as a security (which it can) it's as good as cash.
Re:LOL by Gussington · 2017-12-04 16:28 · Score: 1

Bitcoin does over 6 billion a day in trade volume
Says who?

Really? Market trades are public information https://coinmarketcap.com/

And how much of that volume is trading bitcoin for bitcoin?
What? That makes no sense. Why would I trade Bitcoin for Bitcoin? Trading means exchanging something for something else

When the trend is up, most of the orders are buy, you can bet your ass $100MM USD a day in sell orders would be noticed.
$100M in one trade might, but no-one is that stupid. A fund I'm associated with dumps millions a week across multiple exchanges and it's not even a blip. But why cash out? Bitcoin is a currency and a security, they can buy things directly with it use to borrow against. Just like Shares, Gold or Cash.
Re:LOL by Zaelath · 2017-12-04 16:53 · Score: 1

I can show you 3 other sites that appear to give different figures, why is that one trustworthy?
Apparently the Chinese used to love trading bitcoin for bitcoin: https://www.coindesk.com/real-... but regardless, moving 'value' from one person to another is trading bitcoin for bitcoin.
Who the fuck is taking bitcoin as a security? That might just be the dumbest thing I've heard this year.
Re:LOL by KingBenny · 2017-12-05 15:15 · Score: 1

Well, i guess they won't win the Nobel prize for economics then (L A W L ollll) ... i still don't understand how anyone who gets a nobel prize could say something unfounded like that ("BTC should be outlawed") since throughout history i think about 99.99% of all crime still went in dollar or gold lol lol ol ol ol
the wolvestreet walls here saw it, took the risk and did it, i betcha fiver among the in-crowd upthere there's a lot of green faces now, sure to tell you how it all will burst soon ...
and it might ... but even if it does, seeing as they "only" invested $11kk at the start when it was a gamble , they wont really lose much :) ... i think thats why they call it "venture" or something ... :p
the art of calculating risks ... and when it comes to selling these people surely know how to flow instead of dump, HOWEVER
that amount of coins gives them actual leverage TO make it plummet, combined with some media hype up front into a chain reaction, i think thats what makes this interesting, why would those fuckers care about a billion more or less lol i think congrats are in order though ... being down with shin sekai ... it doesnt seem to be the forté of the lobbyright activists

--
Free speech was meant to be free for all... how can anyone grow up in a nanny state ?
Re:LOL by Gussington · 2017-12-05 16:59 · Score: 1

I can show you 3 other sites that appear to give different figures, why is that one trustworthy?
Yet you didn't post them. I find that odd...

Apparently the Chinese used to love trading bitcoin for bitcoin
Ok so you've demonstrated that you have no idea how an exchange works. Probably best to stop right there.

Who the fuck is taking bitcoin as a security? That might just be the dumbest thing I've heard this year.
The funny thing about reality is that it doesn't care what you think. And this sums up nicely the anti-bitcoin rabble. I have no idea how it works, therefore it must be crap.
Re:LOL by Zaelath · 2017-12-06 13:37 · Score: 1

Apparently the Chinese used to love trading bitcoin for bitcoin
Ok so you've demonstrated that you have no idea how an exchange works. Probably best to stop right there.
There was lots of volume on the Chinese exchanges when there was zero fees
https://www.coindesk.com/real-...
If I trade BTC => Other => BTC, it's still just trading BTC for BTC to inflate the volume.
As to others, here's one: https://data.bitcoinity.org/ma...
That's only showing about $3.5B for the last 24 hours, still a lot but not "over $6" and it includes exchanges w/o fees, which are prone to be manipulated.
Re:LOL by Gussington · 2017-12-07 14:48 · Score: 1

If I trade BTC => Other => BTC, it's still just trading BTC for BTC to inflate the volume.
Ok so you've demonstrated that you have no idea how an exchange works. Probably best to stop right there.

That's only showing about $3.5B for the last 24 hours, still a lot but not "over $6" and it includes exchanges w/o fees, which are prone to be manipulated.
Ok so you've demonstrated that you have no idea how an exchange works. Probably best to stop right there.
Re:LOL by Zaelath · 2017-12-07 16:38 · Score: 1

OK so you've demonstrated you have no argument, I'll stop right there.

wait for it to drop when someone trys to unload th by Joe_Dragon · 2017-12-04 06:04 · Score: 1

wait for it to drop when someone trys to unload that much. Just like the stock market.

Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by qzzpjs · 2017-12-04 06:06 · Score: 2

Unless they can actually cash out that billion at any moment, I wouldn't consider it real.

Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-04 06:10 · Score: 3, Insightful

So I guess the stock market isn't real either.
You can't take that much money out of a bank in one go either. I guess banks aren't real.
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by sobachatina · 2017-12-04 06:13 · Score: 1

You only consider wealth real if it is entirely liquid!?
No one with that much money can liquidate it instantly- at least not without losing some of it.
What if they owned a Billion of real estate? You think they'd be able to dump in in one weekend?
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-04 06:13 · Score: 1

Exactly. There have been consistent problems with being unable to extract your cash from bitcoins in any of the bitcoin services. Some simply stop working for hours or days at a time. Others have a daily limit of about $2,000 (which means it would take about 1,500 years for them to get their money out). Bitcoin is still, overall, a fucking scam.
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by 110010001000 · 2017-12-04 06:15 · Score: 4, Interesting

Correct. Until you sell your stock investment you haven't made any money at all. That is why you are taxed on sale.
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by Anubis+IV · 2017-12-04 06:45 · Score: 2

I agree that having assets that are fully liquid is a silly standard to hold something to, but that's not the issue here. If you own real estate, its value may change over time, but selling your properties wouldn't drive the fair market price down across the entire market. There's nothing stopping you from selling any or all of your properties fortheir full value. Those assets may not be liquid, but they still have a worth that can, for all intents and purposes, be redeemed at full value.
In contrast, when someone owns a large chunk of stock in a company, the very act of attempting to sell that stock usually devalues the stock to the point that they aren't actually getting anywhere close to the price on paper. The problem isn't that they aren't liquid: the problem is that not all of the stock can be redeemed at full value, and because the stocks can't be redeemed at full value, they aren't actually worth what they're listed at.
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by alvinrod · 2017-12-04 06:48 · Score: 1

I don't know how true this is, but I've heard that many of these wealthy people will take out large loans and default on them and pay it off with stock, which doesn't count as a sale. Essentially it allows them to get around the taxes. There may be more to it than that, or it may have been some loophole that's since been closed, but it seemed like the type of scheme bankers would dream up.
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by religionofpeas · 2017-12-04 06:50 · Score: 1

Try withdrawing $1 billion from a bank account at any moment. Maybe that's not real money either.
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by WrongMonkey · 2017-12-04 06:56 · Score: 1

Any valuation of wealth is speculative until it is actualized into the denomination specified. Even when converting between two different currencies. If I have a few leftover euros in my pocket after a trip, their worth in US dollars is speculative until I actually make the exchange.
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by Pascoea · 2017-12-04 07:22 · Score: 1

If I decide to cash out of my real estate, its value is based on its usability. If I decide to cash out of Bitcoins, that value is based purely on agreement.
I disagree. The value of either of those things is how much someone is willing to pay you for them at the time that you want to sell them. Doesn't matter if it's a house, a dollar bill, or a bitcoin.
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by AlanBDee · 2017-12-04 07:26 · Score: 2

There is a similar scheme involving whole life insurance. If I understand it correctly (and I don't promise that I do) you can put your money into the whole life policy. As it grows you would have to pay taxes on it if you pull it out. Instead of pulling it out you get "loans" against the policy which is tax free. Then, when you die, the policy passes to your heirs tax free as part of the policy pay-out. https://www.nerdwallet.com/blo...
It looks good on paper but I actually question how well it really works. For example: if your investment only grew at a meager 4% in the life insurance policy after fees while an index mutual fund grew at 8% then you'd better off just paying taxes on the growth of the index fund. (The actual numbers depend on your tax level but you get the idea)
I have no intention of getting a whole life insurance policy to do this.
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by swillden · 2017-12-04 07:30 · Score: 1

That scheme seems very unlikely to pass the IRS' smell test. I can see it happening one year, but the IRS would tighten the regulations immediately. They have large discretion with figuring out how to determine income, for exactly that reason.

--
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by ghoul · 2017-12-04 07:52 · Score: 1

That only matters if you own a significant chunk of the company's stock. In this case the Bros own 1% of the BTC valuation. 1% is not even a blip given that the average trade volume is 100% of the valuation. The 1% could be broken into .001 percent 10 million trades and sold over a quarter with nooone even getting to know.

--
**Life is too short to be serious**
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by Streetlight · 2017-12-04 07:54 · Score: 1

I'm guessing transfer of ownership is a sale, but like you I'm unsure. The only sure way I know of avoiding paying taxes on the transfer of asset title is inheriting them. When a person dies the cost basis of the assets is reset to their value as of the date of death. Of course the estate owner isn't seeing any gain. The value of the estate my result in the estate paying inheritance taxes which might reduce the value of the inheritance. Any income tax due the heir would come from the increase in value of the inheritance during the probate period. If a decedent invested $100 K and at death the value ended up worth $1,000 K, the heir would not pay taxes on the $900 K gain, nor likely would the estate. If during the probate period the $1,000 K gained $10K in value, then the heir would pay federal income taxes on the $10 K. Individual states may have different situations.

Any decent estate lawyer should be able to pass the $1,010 K through to the heirs untaxed with the heir paying federal income taxes only on the $10 K gain. The tax brackets for federal income taxes on gains for estates are not like those for ordinary income taxes and incredibly high. IIRC, the highest bracket is ~40% on income above $12,500.

--
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by Streetlight · 2017-12-04 08:02 · Score: 1

I should have mentioned that when a spouse inherits upon the death of a husband or wife, there are nor taxes owed

--
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by mattack2 · 2017-12-04 08:36 · Score: 1

If you own real estate, its value may change over time, but selling your properties wouldn't drive the fair market price down across the entire market.
The _entire_ (considering country by country here) market, sure. Couldn't you easily drive down the fair market price of the local (city, county, maybe even state for small states) market? e.g. if a bunch of houses in an area sell at way below what recent sales were at, then the comparable market value goes down, thus affecting future sales in the area, and property tax valuations, etc. (Ignoring our weird Prop 13 property tax situation.)
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by bobbied · 2017-12-04 08:40 · Score: 1

I'm sure the insurance company loves this scheme.... I'm also sure that they profit handsomely from selling folks on the idea that it works.
What's that saying? The only sure things in this world are "Death" and "Taxes" and you may delay them for a time, but you cannot cheat them forever.

--
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by ceoyoyo · 2017-12-04 08:50 · Score: 1

It's not. And that fact has caused a few problems over the years.
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by maglor_83 · 2017-12-04 09:59 · Score: 1

I agree that having assets that are fully liquid is a silly standard to hold something to, but that's not the issue here. If you own real estate, its value may change over time, but selling your properties wouldn't drive the fair market price down across the entire market. There's nothing stopping you from selling any or all of your properties fortheir full value
If you had a significant share of the property market, and tried to sell it all at once (ie exactly the situation we're comparing to), then yes it would certainly negatively effect the prices you could sell for.
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by Anubis+IV · 2017-12-04 11:05 · Score: 1

I quite agree that if someone owned enough of the real estate market they'd have the same problem, but that actually gets at the point I was making.
The sort of thing we're talking about here—where a person owns so much of something that the sale of some devalues the price of the rest—is essentially never a problem in real estate due to the size, diversity, and maturity of the market, yet it IS a problem in cryptocurrencies and stocks, where a single person can own or control a large amount. Were the situations the same, you're right, they'd have the same problem, but the situations aren't the same, hence the problem.
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by Rolgar · 2017-12-05 01:27 · Score: 1

Your loans are going to cost you interest which will reduce your cash in your policy, unless the loan is small enough that the interest growth on your remaining cash is strong enough to counter the interest on the loan. If you outlive your policy because the cash value evaporates, you will have to pay the taxes, and there will be no death benefit.
You can however take out the initial principal, as a return of premium which is money you already paid taxes on, without having to pay any taxes.
Re:Maybe worth a virtual billion dollars by Pascoea · 2017-12-05 04:57 · Score: 1

Well shit, now I've gone and done it! Some random anonymous dude on the Internet isn't going to do business with me.

As long as we don't agree, I won't do business with you.
You just summarized every consensual transaction ever. Generally people don't do business unless they can come to an agreement. If I'm trying to sell you a bitcoin, house, or a bar of gold the transaction likely isn't going to take place unless we can agree on a price.

Better business model by slashmydots · 2017-12-04 06:08 · Score: 1

I think they found a better business model. Facebook sells user data, especially to the NSA, spies on everyone, abuses monopolies and patents, violates multiple countries' laws, and lies about everything all the time. Bitcoins fight oppression and discrimination from the World Bank and UN, fights manipulative billionaires, fights Wall Street assholes, and fights oppressive governments. Bit a difference there.

Re:Better business model by icejai · 2017-12-04 07:34 · Score: 2

If you think Bitcoin fights manipulative billionaires and Wall Street assholes, you're in for a seriously rude awakening once Bitcoin futures starts trading on the CME.

Re:wait for it to drop when someone trys to unload by JaredOfEuropa · 2017-12-04 06:09 · Score: 1

So you don't unload the entire block all in one go. Just like people do on the stock market. Demand for BTC remains pretty strong (still plenty of speculators eager to take a gamble), so they can sell smaller blocks on the way up. I bet they've already started doing that a while back.

--
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...

I hope they didn't put it in Mt. Gox by poached · 2017-12-04 06:13 · Score: 5, Funny

Because you know, that would be sad.

Slashdot by gatfirls · 2017-12-04 06:15 · Score: 4, Funny

..The premier news source for bitcoin.

Re:Slashdot by leonbev · 2017-12-04 07:01 · Score: 2

I'm convinced that the new owners of Slashdot have a big stake in Bitcoin, and this is how they make their money.
Hey... it beats interstitial advertising, anyway.
Re:Slashdot by c · 2017-12-04 07:08 · Score: 1

I'm convinced that the new owners of Slashdot have a big stake in Bitcoin
Naw. The old owners pushed Bitcoin stories... minimum one story per week. It was annoying then, too.
I suspect the new guys just haven't figured out where the Bitcoin-story-approval cron job is being run from.

--
Log in or piss off.
Re:Slashdot by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · 2017-12-04 08:32 · Score: 1

Hey... it beats interstitial advertising, anyway.
My adblocker blocks interstitial ads. Bitcoin stories, not so much.

--
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Re:Slashdot by david_thornley · 2017-12-05 09:05 · Score: 1

There may be a market opportunity there....

--
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes

Reality of All Billionaires by sycodon · 2017-12-04 06:15 · Score: 5, Informative

This is the same reality faced by Bill Gates, Bezos, Musk, Buffet, etc.

Billionaires don't have a billion dollars. In fact their actual income is quite modest compared to what you think when you say, "Billionaire". Wealth doesn't mean cash in your bank account.

To be sure, they have NO financial hardship, even if they spend like idiots. But they don't "have" a billion dollars in cash.

--
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.

Re:Reality of All Billionaires by alvinrod · 2017-12-04 06:45 · Score: 2

You don't need a billion dollars (or really even a million for that matter) in cash for any reason. What the hell would you actually buy with it? Perhaps you could perform a (hostile) takeover of some other company that's publicly traded or just for sale by the owner, but the kinds of people who'd do that would be looking at it as an investment instead of like buying a car.

You don't even need to be cash rich at all as long as you're just rich. Banks will always be willing to lend you money when you have billions of dollars worth of assets.
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by WrongMonkey · 2017-12-04 06:47 · Score: 2

Exactly! I've tried to explain this many times and usually get modded down. Valuation of personal wealth based largely on securities should not be compared to cash in the bank.
This is a real problem for the Gates Foundation because it limits how much they can cash out to spend before it disrupts the stock market.
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by sycodon · 2017-12-04 06:52 · Score: 3, Insightful

Even with a hostile take over, most of the consideration is in the form of shares.

--
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by Pieroxy · 2017-12-04 07:09 · Score: 1

Cash is something guaranteed by your government to have a very specific value. USD, Euro, etc. BC is not cash.
Some will say it's better, but it is still not cash.

--
Write boring code, not shiny code!
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2017-12-04 07:14 · Score: 1

Is it not a currency? BC is as liquid as cash
Perhaps, but I'm not sure what is the current exchange rate on provinces of Canada.

--
Ezekiel 23:20
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by Killall+-9+Bash · 2017-12-04 07:15 · Score: 2

If currency was guaranteed to have a specif value, inflation wouldn't be a thing.

--
"Prediction: within 10 years, Windows will be a Linux distribution." Me, 7-6-2016
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by swillden · 2017-12-04 07:15 · Score: 1

This is the same reality faced by Bill Gates, Bezos, Musk, Buffet, etc.
Yes and no.
Founders cashing out does temporarily lower the stock price, but it's usually not too bad unless investors believe they're bailing because they know something (the knowledge can't be specific, current non-public data; that would be insider trading, but it can be application of the same level of insight that led them to become successful in the first place). This is true even when the Founders own significantly more than 1% of the stock. Divestiture of a mere 1% would rarely cause a big downward movement, even if it hit pretty fast.
In the case of BTC, though, because the real value of a BTC as an exchange medium is pretty weak (due to the scaling issues), nearly all of the BTC value is bubble-driven. In that sort of situation, a 1% sell-off could easily trigger a catastrophic collapse.

--
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by mindstormpt · 2017-12-04 07:34 · Score: 3, Informative

Slashdot: Jeff Bezos Just Sold $1.1 Billion in Amazon Stock
You're funny.
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by sinij · 2017-12-04 07:40 · Score: 1

What the hell would you actually buy with it?
Bill, you lack imagination.

You can borrow some items from my list:
a. Secret Moonbase
b. Underwater dome city
c. My personal scramjet orbital-capable shuttle
d. A modern pyramid for personal mausoleum
e. Opening temples of Church of Spaghetti Monster across the nation.
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by chispito · 2017-12-04 07:43 · Score: 1

Because it seems like it's on the tip of your tongue, I think the word you're looking for is "liquidity."

--
The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by mattack2 · 2017-12-04 08:10 · Score: 1

This is very often made clear. You just say that they have over a billion dollars "on paper".
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by Kjella · 2017-12-04 08:16 · Score: 1

Bezos, Musk they're still leading and building their rapidly expanding company, no idea what Buffet is up to... Gates? Microsoft is an established giant and he's stepped down as chairman and diversified his portfolio, owning just 1.3% of Microsoft now.... he could probably cash out $10 billion tomorrow by just selling across the board.

--
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by Anonymous Coward · 2017-12-04 08:21 · Score: 2, Funny

"I'll tell you what I'd do, man: two chicks at the same time, man."
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by wagnerer · 2017-12-04 08:54 · Score: 1

1) The guarantee is that they will give you one dollar for a $1 bill. Says right on it.
2) That's a federal reserve guarantee, not the us government.
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by h4ck7h3p14n37 · 2017-12-04 09:02 · Score: 1

Billionaires don't have a billion dollars. In fact their actual income is quite modest compared to what you think when you say, "Billionaire". Wealth doesn't mean cash in your bank account.
At a certain point finding places to put your wealth becomes an actual problem. Wealthy people don't have a big vault where they keep their money like Scrooge McDuck, they have to invest it in things. That's one of the reasons I detest class warfare and demonizing the successful. It's those evil wealthy people that invest in companies and hire employees, that buy expensive products and who pay the majority of the bill for the social safety net. And yet people keep accusing them of not paying their "fair share" when they are already paying their share along with a lot of other peoples' share.
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by evilRhino · 2017-12-04 09:11 · Score: 1

The human brain doesn't comprehend numbers that large consciously. Even 1/10 of a billion dollars will last 1,000 years spending $100,000/year. This is not even accounting for any interest on the principal, and considerably higher than median household income in the US. If they were able to recover even a fraction of the amount, they are set for life even if they spend exorbitantly.
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by tattood · 2017-12-04 09:18 · Score: 1

Is it not a currency?
And now, you finally understand!

--
WTB [sig], PST!!!
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by Comrade+Ogilvy · 2017-12-04 09:45 · Score: 1, Informative

And yet people keep accusing them of not paying their "fair share" when they are already paying their share along with a lot of other peoples' share.
Depends on what you mean by "fair share". The most common argument, endorsed by some people of significant sophistication and perspective like Warren Buffet, is that most very wealthy pay a lesser percentage of their income in taxes than the typical middle class taxpayer.
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by 14erCleaner · 2017-12-04 09:46 · Score: 2

What the hell would you actually buy with it?
Today's stylish billionaire starts his own space program.

--
Have you read my blog lately?
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by WrongMonkey · 2017-12-04 09:56 · Score: 1

Could Bill Gates get $1 billion cash in 24hrs? Sure. But Bill Gates is supposedly "worth" about $70 billion. How much of that could he get in cash in one year? What happens to markets when word gets out that Gates is cashing out everything?
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by Enigma2175 · 2017-12-04 10:51 · Score: 1

It's those evil wealthy people that invest in companies and hire employees, that buy expensive products and who pay the majority of the bill for the social safety net. And yet people keep accusing them of not paying their "fair share" when they are already paying their share along with a lot of other peoples' share.
Do they pay the majority of the bill for the social safety net? People who carry water for the wealthy often cite the percentage of the federal income tax that the wealthy pay (which is going down greatly under the new tax plan), but most of the safety net (Social Security and Medicare) are not paid from income tax revenue. Since Social Security is only paid on the first $127k of income, wealthy people end up paying a much lower percentage of their income for this tax than the middle class. The Medicare tax hasn't historically been progressive (however, it recently added a 0.9% addition for incomes over a certain level) so wealthier people pay a similar percentage of their income compared to other people. So just exactly what part of the social safety net is the rich paying "the majority of the bill for"?

--
Enigma
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by larryjoe · 2017-12-04 10:59 · Score: 1

And yet people keep accusing them of not paying their "fair share" when they are already paying their share along with a lot of other peoples' share.
Depends on what you mean by "fair share". The most common argument, endorsed by some people of significant sophistication and perspective like Warren Buffet, is that most very wealthy pay a lesser percentage of their income in taxes than the typical middle class taxpayer.
Fairness always depends on the specific metric of interest. Aside from the ability to contribute financially, owners of more property also consume more governmental services and resources. For example, a rich person has a greater need for fire protection services than a homeless or indigent person. Transportation infrastructure yields convenience for poor people but is a business necessity for business people.
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by Rakarra · 2017-12-04 12:49 · Score: 1

I think you will not find anything confirming your idea, but tons of evidence disproving it. You don't know what a dollar is worth, and neither does anyone else.
Money, like everything else in the world including gold, is worth exactly as much as we think it does.
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by skegg · 2017-12-04 12:54 · Score: 1

but it's usually not too bad unless investors believe they're bailing because they know something
Very true. That's why founders at this level only cash-out small amounts (small by their standards, not mine !) and even then announce the share sale well ahead, so that the market is minimally spooked.
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by discovercomics · 2017-12-04 13:35 · Score: 1

Bezos doesn't have any issues selling a Billion or so of amazon stock each year. He does that with regularity to finance Blue Origin.
Re: Reality of All Billionaires by reanjr · 2017-12-05 04:40 · Score: 1

Selling all at once doesn't magically make buyers appear at the spot price.
The best strategy is to place a sell order for your riches at the current spot price and let buyers trickle in and scoop up little bits of your offer until you're divested.
Re:Reality of All Billionaires by Pieroxy · 2017-12-05 08:16 · Score: 1

The definition, just the definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
I equated cash with FIAT currency, because for now in most country they are indistinguishable.

--
Write boring code, not shiny code!

Re:LIST OF FAGGOTS by DickBreath · 2017-12-04 06:17 · Score: 1

You are not very good at making lists.

--

I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.

Re:Cash out by gatfirls · 2017-12-04 06:23 · Score: 1

Really easy, it just crushes the price as it tears through sell walls because of relative low volume.

Re:wait for it to drop when someone trys to unload by Joe_Dragon · 2017-12-04 06:26 · Score: 1

the exchange does have the cash to pay out much and with no gov regs they just give you an IOU and keep the coins.

Re:Cash out by religionofpeas · 2017-12-04 06:34 · Score: 1

Obviously you wouldn't sell at market price.

Big Whoop! I'm an Eve billionaire! by arfonrg · 2017-12-04 06:48 · Score: 1

More of a tangible currency than BC.

--
Your thin skin doesn't make me a troll

Re:Cash out by gatfirls · 2017-12-04 06:51 · Score: 1

Well in that case, it's really hard.

Re:LIST OF FAGGOTS by DickBreath · 2017-12-04 06:57 · Score: 1

When Santa makes a database he verifies it twice to insure data integrity.

--

I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.

Re:LIST OF FAGGOTS by DontBeAMoran · 2017-12-04 07:06 · Score: 1

I'm not a faggot, I'm a furry! Get your facts straight!

--
#DeleteFacebook

No, they are not. by TeknoHog · 2017-12-04 07:13 · Score: 1

With a hard cap of 21 million bitcoins in total, nobody will ever be a Bitcoin billionaire. I'm not even sure if there are Bitcoin millionaires, though Satoshi could well be one.

--
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.

Re:No, they are not. by TeknoHog · 2017-12-04 07:17 · Score: 1

Also, why say "1 percent of the entire currency's dollar value equivalent"? They have 1 percent of total coin supply, and that won't change whether you compare 1 BTC to Euro or whatever.

--
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Re:No, they are not. by EndlessNameless · 2017-12-04 07:26 · Score: 1

He's a billionaire in America because the current value of those Bitcoins exceeds one billion dollars.
In case you're pedantic rather than ignorant, I'll remind you that net worth is calculated by converting all assets and liabilities to dollars at current market prices. This is entirely consistent with how traditional stock-and-bonds billionaires are assessed.

--

---
According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
Re:No, they are not. by TeknoHog · 2017-12-04 08:02 · Score: 1

He's a billionaire in America because the current value of those Bitcoins exceeds one billion dollars.
I agree with that. However, in the greater world, simply saying "billionaire" is not enough, so it's better to specify the currency. For instance, a dollar billionaire might not be a euro billionaire. Using the same logic, a bitcoin billionaire would mean having a billion bitcoins. Of course, this assumes that you treat Bitcoin as a currency.
Stocks etc. are different because you might have different types of share for each company. There's no single unit of Nokia share, for example, so it's easier to agree that a "Nokia millionaire" has a million local currency units worth of the company.

--
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.

Re:wait for it to drop when someone trys to unload by Aighearach · 2017-12-04 07:18 · Score: 1

Wait, no government regs? Who told you that? Not a lawyer, that's for sure.

I'm not a lawyer either, but I at least know that all currency is government-regulated, including private currencies. It is obvious if understand that the US only had private currencies at the beginning!

"The Securities and Exchange Commission (Commission) treats securities crimes committed with Bitcoin and VCs as money"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Anything you use as money is already currency and already regulated. If you don't like it, just buy a big truck and carry chickens around with you to barter for goods. Be advised you still have to calculate the dollar equivalents and pay taxes.

Re:LIST OF FAGGOTS by Aighearach · 2017-12-04 07:25 · Score: 1

I assure you, Santa would not insure his list, if he was worried about he'd just wiggle his nose to ensure the data integrity!

Not really... look at Ars by CrashNBrn · 2017-12-04 07:33 · Score: 2

bitcoin site:arstechnica.com :: About 48,700 results (0.51 seconds)
bitcoin site:slashdot.org :: About 4,460 results (0.46 seconds)

Re:Not really... look at Ars by gatfirls · 2017-12-04 07:40 · Score: 1

hyperbole
hprbl/Submit
noun
exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.
synonyms: exaggeration, overstatement, magnification, embroidery, embellishment, excess, overkill, rhetoric; More
Anyway, it's not the fact that pretty much 1 out of the 10 stories a day is about bitcoin, it's that they are completely uninteresting. This one is basically "Rich people have money"
Re:Not really... look at Ars by ceoyoyo · 2017-12-04 08:52 · Score: 1

To be fair, this story is more like Winklevoss twins were crazy enough to dump $11 million into bitcoin back when it was $120/coin.

Re:Bitcoin .... its a TRAP! by MikeDataLink · 2017-12-04 07:35 · Score: 1

Bitcoin is a trap. Its purpose if for "greed" to "invest"

1) Why does making money always equal greed in some people's minds? What's wrong with striving for more than you have?

2) You could say this about any investment. Even physical ones like rental property. The market could literally collapse overnight and make your properties worth less than you owe on them, and indeed it has happened numerous times in history.

3) Rule #1 of investing. Don't invest money you can't afford to lose. It's always at risk in any investment. Risk is the nature of investing.

--
Mike @ The Geek Pub. Let's Make Stuff!

Good luck selling that... by enriquevagu · 2017-12-04 07:37 · Score: 1

They only need 1 000 000 people investing $1 000 into bitcoin to cash out.

Re:Good luck selling that... by ghoul · 2017-12-04 07:53 · Score: 2

Over 300 million folks have bought iPhones when you can make calls from a 5 dollar flip phone. Sometimes a need is not known to exist till a product is created. BTC is a product and needs are constantly getting invented for it.

--
**Life is too short to be serious**

Re:wait for it to drop when someone trys to unload by torkus · 2017-12-04 07:45 · Score: 1

The exchange facilitates your purchase or sale...and transfer of funds to/from your bank account. They don't hold the cash to buy everything out...

You want to sell, 10BTC...well when theres 10BTC looking to be bought at your asking price, that money goes from the buyer, through the exchange, and to you. Why is this complicated to understand?

--
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.

Satoshi Nakamoto Did it First by DanielRavenNest · 2017-12-04 07:49 · Score: 4, Interesting

Whoever he/she/they are, they have an estimated 800K bitcoins, from being the first miner, in the days it was easy. We know those coins have never moved since being mined, because the blockchain tracks every transaction. So they would have become a billionaire for the first time, when the price peaked in Nov, 2013, then again in Mar and Apr of 2017 when it crossed $1250/BTC.

It is always possible those early coins are lost, or the private keys intentionally destroyed. It is also possible Nakamoto is waiting until they can buy HSBC, just because they can. The message in the Genesis Block (the first one in the blockchain) is "The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks", so they are not a fan of banks.

Re:Satoshi Nakamoto Did it First by bobbied · 2017-12-04 09:07 · Score: 1

Classic pyramid scheme... The folks in on the ground floor make money. Other people may make money as the scheme progresses... Then Everybody left loses all they invested once it falls apart.
Looks can be deceiving I guess, but not unusually.

--
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Re:Satoshi Nakamoto Did it First by Xyrus · 2017-12-04 12:13 · Score: 1

The message in the Exodus block is "Drink Your Ovaltine."

--
~X~

Re:LIST OF FAGGOTS by Rakarra · 2017-12-04 12:50 · Score: 1

I'm not a faggot, I'm a furry! Get your facts straight!

They're not mutually exclusive.

Re:The Winklevoss twins are douche bags... by Rakarra · 2017-12-04 13:06 · Score: 1

The only two people on the planet who can make Mark Zuckerburg look better in comparison.

Source: "The Accidental Billionaires: The Founding of Facebook: A Tale of Sex, Money, Genius and Betrayal" by Ben Mezrich

Yeah, he basically took Eduardo Saverin's story and fictioned it up a little bit. No surprise, that story makes Saverin seem like a saint, and everyone else like a horrible asshole and/or the devil. It also shouldn't shock anyone that serial character assassin Aaron Sorkin liked it enough to adapt it for the Social Network.

Upoming craash by manu0601 · 2017-12-04 13:44 · Score: 1

Will they convert to something less volatile before bitcoin value crash?

Slashdot Mirror

The Winklevoss Twins Are Now Bitcoin Billionaires (theverge.com)

108 of 155 comments (clear)