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Jony Ive Returns To Apple Design Management Role After Two Years (9to5mac.com)

Zac Hall, writing for 9to5Mac: Jony Ive, Apple's chief design officer, is returning to his management role within Apple's design group after handing off managerial duties in 2015. 9to5Mac noted that Ive's design deputies Dye and Haywarth were no longer listed on Apple's leadership page earlier today.

38 of 69 comments (clear)

  1. Well that's just terrific by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm greatly looking forward to a future full of function-follows-form from the good ol' days!

    1. Re:Well that's just terrific by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2

      Did Apple ever stop doing that? The current product line is pretty terrible as far as repairability, Ive or not.

    2. Re:Well that's just terrific by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Do we have a popular product line, that is good on terms of repairability?

      We complain about Apple, but it seems the other major players soon follow suit afterwards. And we once in a while get some company trying to put back the things that Apple takes out, and the product turns out to be a big flop.

      I miss the reparability of the normal beige box PC too... However it wasn't reparability, but the ability to add new hardware, which technologies like USB actually make it very easy today, without having to open up the box.

      But in terms of repairs to faulty components to electronics I have own in the past 30 years?
      1 Modem
      1 5 1/4 Floppy drive
      1 Video Card
      2 CPU Fans
      3 Hard Disk Drives
      3 Batteries (1 was considered non-replaceable on an iPod Mini)
      1 Laptop screen.

      The rest were upgrade

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:Well that's just terrific by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Here's the thing. I've had laptop (both Mac and PC) motherboards fail more than oncde. If I didn't have a very current backup, I could still pop the hard drive or SSD out and retrieve my data with a $5 USB to SATA cable. With Apple, I'd have to beg an Apple store to retrieve my data, pay them if I was out of AppleDontCare, and have no guarantee that they even could. All for a savings of, what, $5? on a connector.

    4. Re:Well that's just terrific by stevez67 · · Score: 2

      Or, you could take ownership and responsibility for your data by doing backups to an external hard drive or could service.

    5. Re: Well that's just terrific by Brockmire · · Score: 2

      A phone is in your hands on many different surfaces. Think dropping a very expensive remote control, not on carpet. How many beige PC'S have you dropped? I dropped my last phone at least 20 times over 3+ years. The last time on concrete and slid 20ft, the power button broke off and got lost. I bought a new body for it for like $22 from eBay and about 15 minutes of time after watching a YouTube video, it was good as new.

    6. Re:Well that's just terrific by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or, I could have hardware that's not crippled by design. Being able to swap drives also had other advantages to some people -- like being able to insert a "clean" drive when traveling internationally (ever heard of US border data searches?)

      Why sell crippled hardware for want of a connector that costs a buck or two?

    7. Re:Well that's just terrific by quonset · · Score: 1

      Thank you. I'm late to this story (work and all) but came here to say essentially the same thing.

      I'm trying to get back into photography and now have my Windows 7 system running nicely. However, once that is gone, what then? I am absolutely not going to that abomination Windows 10, and with Apple not selling a decent PC (not laptop) where the memory isn't soldered in and non-upgradable, or a video card which is 5-6 years old but still sold for the same exorbitant price, that leaves some version of Linux. Which has no good photo editing software (no, Gimp doesn't count).

      In effect, I'm done in a few years when this system dies. All because there's shit to purchase.

    8. Re:Well that's just terrific by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Here's the thing. I've had laptop (both Mac and PC) motherboards fail more than oncde. If I didn't have a very current backup, I could still pop the hard drive or SSD out and retrieve my data with a $5 USB to SATA cable. With Apple, I'd have to beg an Apple store to retrieve my data, pay them if I was out of AppleDontCare, and have no guarantee that they even could. All for a savings of, what, $5? on a connector.

      And why wouldn't you have a very current backup? Time Machine backs up your machine hourly these days. So even if your machine goes tits up you have a backup that's an hour old at most.

      Though it would be nice if Apple would bring back Target Disk Mode - especially now they have USB-C and thunderbolt so lack of a connection is no excuse anymore. That was probably the ultimate Mac recovery mechanism - as long as enough of the system worked, you can get at your disk data.

    9. Re:Well that's just terrific by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Say I'm traveling (easiest to break a machine) and haven't been on the same network at the Time Capsule for a week.

    10. Re: Well that's just terrific by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      The âdecent PCâ(TM) youâ(TM)re looking for is the iMac.

    11. Re:Well that's just terrific by lokedhs · · Score: 1
      If you really want Photoshop, then the best solution for you is probably to get a good Linux laptop, and then have a VM with Windows 7 dedicated to Photoshop. Once Win7 is out of support, you can just remove all network connectivity to the VM and stick with the last version.

      Or, you could perhaps use Windows 10 in a VM. If all you use it for is Photoshop, then perhaps it could be bearable?

  2. Let's hope this ends the moz://a-fication of Apple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm getting worried about Apple. I'm feeling more and more of the moz://a vibe from it.

    By that I mean we're seeing Apple do more and more things that they want to do, rather than giving customers what the customers desire.

    We've seen moz://a do this with Firefox. While Firefox was initially developed in a way that benefited users, and provided them with a superior browser, over time we've seen the opposite happen. Changes have been made to Firefox not based on any demand or desire from users, but rather just because moz://a wants to force through their own ideas an initiatives. The end result has been disastrous: users have fled Firefox, moving to browsers that actually prioritize giving a good user experience. Firefox's share of the market has dropped from 35% down to 5%, and this has effectively made moz://a irrelevant. Worse, we've seen one failure after another (Firefox OS, Rust, Servo, Persona, Hello, Pocket, etc.) when it comes to moz://a's attempts at creating new products and offerings.

    I fear that the same thing is starting to happen to Apple. I think they may have lost focus on the user, and are now going down the same path that moz://a did, of doing what they (Apple or moz://a) want to do, instead of what the customers/users want to be done.

    Please, Apple, learn from moz://a's mistakes! Don't become what they become! Put the focus back on the customers and what the customers actually want, rather than trying to force agendas or initiatives on the customers!

    I hope that this development helps put an end to the moz://a-fication that I think we've seen start to happen. Apple needs to return to its early 2000s roots, where the seeds of its most recent success were planted. The needs and wants of the users need to be the primary focus again.

  3. Design mis-management... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ah yes. The man responsible for Macbooks with non-replaceable storage (nice if the motherboard fails), soldered RAM, irremovable (glued!) batteries. And iMacs with screens stuck with strong sticky tape over the vital parts (needs a pizza roller to remove).

    Oh wait! And Apple's Time Capsule. Nice little router with storage built in. Should be easy enough to remove the hard drive when it fails, right? Wrong.

    You can get to the drive by popping off the bottom cover, but Apple routed wires under the drive. Disconnecting some of the wires is virtually guaranteed to break their connectors. Apple saved 50 cents and made the thing extremely hard to fix.

    All hail Jony Ive, the king of user-hostile design.

    1. Re:Design mis-management... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I would disagree-- while they are definitely not friendly for the average user here at Slashdot (who wants to replace a drive or update a component)-- I think apples former success clearly shows they were absolutely user friendly for the average computer user overall.

      In addition to that, I think Ives is a top notch industrial designer. Part of the reason apple products were impossible to repair is because he considered form as well as function. I know a lot of people claim he put form OVER function, and I'll conceed that to a degree, but the alternative is the parade of brutal box shaped laptops and cluttered hardware interfaces that are now a thing of the past. Apple, and I think partially Ives, helped usher in a marketplace where consumer electronics had to look good AND function.

      A lot of it comes down to preference, but I think apples growth is in part due to the fact that a lot of people are willing to part with a small measure of functionality to have a device which has some aesthetic beauty. For the average person who doesn't care about playing lossless formats, or swapping out components, the ipod was a well functioning music player that looked great. The macbook was a machine with a delightful screen, it was slim instead of bulky, it was made of premium materials and had that new (now old hat) magnetic power connector. It was a user freindly, premium feeling, personal computer. And unless you are in love with Linux or baked into the MS ecosystem, using OSX was probably perfectly suitable (and in some ways a lot better anyway).

      For the record, I don't own any apple products. I actually lean more toward the function over form crowd, and, for better or worse, I'm pretty tied to windows and the occasional Linux box.

    2. Re:Design mis-management... by balbeir · · Score: 1

      All hail Jony Ive, the king of user-hostile design.

      And to top it all off : the king of the notch

    3. Re:Design mis-management... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Ive. There's only one of him.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  4. Have I been blaming the wrong guy? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    During the past couple years when Apple has come out with laptops without the ports I need, or phones without headphone jacks - I figured it was Jony Ive's fault. So was it actually these other guys making those decisions?

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Have I been blaming the wrong guy? by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Jony Ive has only been out for 1-2 years -- you can blame him for Apple's watered-down hardware.

    2. Re:Have I been blaming the wrong guy? by cfalcon · · Score: 2

      No clue. I've had a pet theory that when Apple is doing well technically or fashionably, they "invest" in bad design and user hostile decisions, and when they need to look good, they revert back to sane industry standard stuff. I think it's just one extra currency they can bank and cash out of, repeatedly.

      The last several years have been a progressively funnier joke as regards user servicability and user access. The funniest part was probably the trashcan Mac- a server, and priced as such, in a laughably small package that ends up needing a nest of dust collecting wires everywhere to talk with anything in the modern world, with almost no upgradability- unlike their other products, this one was priced to compete with real servers, and to compete in a market with people who would value some function over form. Lesser jokes include needless cost-shaving risks, such as the decision to drop a headphone jack and replace it with a piece of plastic that does literally nothing (for the purpose of getting everyone talking about their phone, and no other thing), versions of ios that use a flat design that doesn't distinguish between layers of control on purpose, etc.

      At some point, Apple will probably choose to revert any of these that they can make people talk about, probably with some Apple-slanted angle when they revert them.

      Meanwhile they've been making legitimate strides in stuff like mobile CPUs, but those don't make the press print story. Controversy sells, attention is brought about by conflict, etc.

    3. Re:Have I been blaming the wrong guy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I blame Tim Cook. He should have said "No" to the bad design decisions.

      I wouldn't blame Cook for a bug in someone's code, which said
      a = b++;
      when the code should have said
      a = ++b;

      But I do blame him for approving obvious design decisions like what ports a Mac has.

  5. mac pro 2018 with non replaceable storage = no go by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    mac pro 2018 with non replaceable storage = no go unless apple wants to be the one that leaks that new movie when it's in's in post.

  6. Re:Let's hope this ends the moz://a-fication of Ap by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    What do the customers desire? Apple is the world biggest company with no sign of slowing.

    Apples early 2000s roots.
    Colorful boxes on slow processors, with all in one systems making repairs difficult, and removal of the beloved Floppy drive, and an option to add one with a USB dongle.
    Or on the pro-line you have system that look much like they do today, with more or less the same manageability and upgradability.

    Apple had dumped OS 9 and remade it scratch for OS X which didn't mature until the mid 2000's. While its Unix core made geeks like us, find it useful for real work, but being a desktop OS with some market behind it, made it a good compromise between a Linux and a Windows box. It success was driven by Microsoft failing, and having a number of major security and reliability problems. combined with the fact that PC Maker were playing the race to the bottom, where they kept on making cheaper and cheaper devices. Which made Apple who wasn't playing that game look good. Because while the others were shoving out crap, Apple had a good quality product.

    I actually don't see much of a difference. The biggest thing is now Apple is in the #1 spot, and has massive influence.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  7. But QA... by s1d3track3D · · Score: 2

    Given their recent passwordless root entry debacle, maybe they should be focusing on hiring high profile QA engineers... ref: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...

    1. Re:But QA... by antdude · · Score: 1

      Not just QA engineers. More paid QA testers in Apple. Not free external users as testers.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  8. Re: Let's hope this ends the moz://a-fication of A by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    OS X was a mature product from the beginning, thanks to its NeXTSTEP heritage. It already had many years of work and usage by the time it became OS X.

  9. Nooo....not Mr. Flatter is better... by Proudrooster · · Score: 4, Funny

    Well, I guess everything is going to get even flatter and less serviceable and upgradable.

    The new 2018 MacBook Pro will have only one port called the USB-C-Flat and the case will be made of two-ply aluminum foil because everyone needs to keep their Mac in a manilla envelope. The entire machine will be made with a new revolutionary lamination process because pentalobe screws are ugly. The keyboard won't have actual keys of instead be a silkscreen over a giant touch pad. Yes, the keyboard and the touch pad will merge into one gloriously flat surface. The CPU, GPU, and RAM will be laminated into the aluminum and the whole case will become a giant glorious heatsink eliminating the needs for any fans. The battery will be a next generation ultra flat non-liquid electrolyte design. The entire $2000 compute can be recycled after two years by running it through a shredder and you can purchase another one.

    Then Lenovo, HP, ASUS, and Acer will all copy this stupid new design,

    I would so much like to be the head of design at Apple. I would make cool, modular stuff and there would be a Phat-Book Pro!

    Johnny your ruining the laptop design world, please retire. It's time.

    1. Re:Nooo....not Mr. Flatter is better... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Apple struck a good balance in the 80s. Apple IIc for people who wanted things to "just work." Soldered RAM, sealed case, even semi-portable -- you could get an LCD and a car power adapter.

      Apple IIe and GS for power users, with many expansion slots in the case, memory expansion, etc - but the basic architecture of the IIc and IIe were similar (the IIGS essentially expanded on the IIe concept but added a 16-bit processor and snazzy graphics and sound).

    2. Re:Nooo....not Mr. Flatter is better... by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      you joke, but seriously.. that's probably the endgame.

  10. Re:Mothership is done... by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    Apple won't let you see it up close, but you can get a really good bird eye's view using Google Maps.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  11. Could it be iPhone X issues? by dslmodem · · Score: 1

    Face recognition sounds a decision made in these two years. It is not mature enough and convenient enough. Touch ID still rocks.

    --

    ^(oo)^pig~

  12. Re:Let's hope this ends the moz://a-fication of Ap by TigerPlish · · Score: 1

    Please, Apple, learn from moz://a's mistakes! Don't become what they become! Put the focus back on the customers and what the customers actually want, rather than trying to force agendas or initiatives on the customers!

    Hm. I wonder if "listening to the customer" is always 100% infallible advise.

    Time for a car analogy: Let's say one makes cars. And if you listen TOO much to your customers, you'll end up with the Pontiac Aztek (poster kid of what happens when a car is designed by focus groups) or Homer's Percephone. The brutal truth is most customer's don't *know* what they want.

    Prove me wrong. Just because a tech minority knows what we want doesn't mean ALL customers know. Most of them don't.. and they don't care. They think their neat idea should be implemented, even if it's the most bone-headed mistake possible.

    --
    The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
  13. Jony I've *Returned* by dohzer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Missing apostrophe and it should be 'ed', not 's'. Such slack editing.

  14. Ugh, Jony Ive... by fyngyrz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm greatly looking forward to a future full of function-follows-form from the good ol' days!

    Unless you're being sarcastic... I don't know why you would think that's in the cards; Jony Ive is the villain that took away the beautiful icons iOS and OS X / MacOS used to have and replaced them with dull, flat, information-culled pastels reminiscent of an interior decorator's shart, not to mention being the conceptual guy who was in authority when the clueless process that brought us the abortion that is the "trashcan" Mac Pro went down.

    Unless he's been off recovering from a head injury, this appears to bode very poorly for the future of everything Apple.

    It's looking more and more like a big windows tower lurks in my future. Damn it.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Ugh, Jony Ive... by lokedhs · · Score: 2

      The software stated going down the drain before the hardware did. The height of OSX was around 10.5 or maybe 10.6. The height of hardware was around 2011.

  15. Re:Could we get a real pro laptop again, please? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

    I decided to hold my breath for this a few years ago. Did you know that after you pass out you start breathing again?

    --
    APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
  16. 'see what I did? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    The brutal truth is most customer's don't *know* what they want.

    Fa'ster hor'se's.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  17. Macaulay's Law of Software Upgrades by FlaSheridn · · Score: 1

    "To think nothing of symmetry and much of convenience; never to remove an anomaly merely because it is an anomaly; never to innovate except when some grievance is felt; never to innovate except so far as to get rid of the grievance."