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Driverless Cars Could Make Transportation Free for Everyone -- With a Catch (theatlantic.com)
Want a gratis ride? You'll just have to stop at some stores along the way. The Atlantic explores a possible future with autonomous cars: In a world full of autonomous autos, transportation will become free. Not just hands-free, or driver-free, or go-wherever-you-want free. But free as in beer: complimentary, gratis. Summon a car and travel for nothing -- that is, so long as you are willing to make a stop or two en route at sponsoring locations. Picture a not-too-distant future where a trip across town is available to anyone who will spend 15 minutes in McDonald's on the way. Not a fast-food fan? Then for you it's Starbucks, a bookstore, the game parlor. Rides with a child stop at the Disney store, while teenage girls are routed via next decade's version of Zara and H&M. Unlike today's UberPool, with its roundabout routes and multiple passenger pickups, "UberFree" features tailor-made routes and thoughtfully targeted stops. Realtors could pay to have the cars drive slowly past featured properties for sale, past the nice new elementary school in the slightly more affluent neighborhood.
I'd rather pay to ride public transit or drive my own car instead of living in that dystopian hell. If you think that's a realistic view of the future, I weep for your parents -- they clearly failed you -- and humanity in general.
Now the idea is public. Prior art. No one should be able to patent this.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
How is this any different than being herded like fucking cattle?
It seems like any time there's a trade between personal responsibility and autonomy for safety/efficiency -- It's never for the benefit of the everyday person. Regardless of how it's spun.
They'll have to pry my cold, lifeless hands off of my steering wheel.
No way in hell would I put up with that bullshit. I'd rather walk.
Billions invested in R&D and the end result is the same as a cheap ride in a dodgy taxi in some 3rd world city. Bravo.
Soo reading this article I just thought of something stupid that might make this not work. So get piss drunk with beer so you don't remember the ads since hopefully it'll get you there eventually?
Say no to walled garden transportation systems!
Doors lock, windows opacify, and a bit of knockout gas later, welcome to Secret Police Headquarters where we will cleanse you of those unapproved thoughts, for you own good of course, Comrade.
Can't wait for the Johnny Cab from Total Recall.
I wonder if this will bring a new meaning to "road rage."
Person sick of being taken for a ride, yipped at, and yapped at by the latest self-driving Goober appliance will take an axe to the next example of Goober-box that they see. While wearing a mask to protect against ID from cameras.
we meant free mustache rides, the doors are locked.
We already have cheap transportation. We call it the bus. But the bus still isn't free.
We don't even have free communication everywhere, which is a lot cheaper to provide than transportation.
There's abundant internet access all around us in the airwaves. Between mobile data networks and wifi everywhere, we're literally at the point of post-scarcity. But it's still not free. You're still expected to pay an access fee in the form of a mobile data plan or cable subscription to get on the internet.
Sure you can get free internet by hacking your way onto a data network, and nobody really cares if you do. But good luck getting free rides by hijacking the bus and not landing in jail.
stopping at every strip joint on my way to work sounds kind of fun *gig*
Nothing new. Already being done. It's called Kaffeefahrt. Seems there's no english wikipedia page for that one.
Basically, a company offers day trips for elderly people for extremely cheap. Then people are locked, served coffee and some cake. But they can't leave the room until a sufficient number of electric blankets or similar stuff have been bought. The coffee, of course, increases the pressure for people wanting to leave the room, and hence the pressure to buy the electric blankets.
Unabomb slashdot!
Freedom Club forever!
Explain to me how this new system is different.
Have gnu, will travel.
what about being liable for parking lot accidents? The store may ending being the one to pay up or at the very least have to court to defend them self's.
"Customers" have to have enough disposable income to make this kind of targeting scheme worthwhile. Sure, there are a few layabouts with inherited wealth or sponge off their parents, but most consumers need to earn a living. And if automation puts them out of work, they'll be on the government dole.
But free as in beer: complimentary, gratis.
This is not true if there are ads. Then its not free.
I will keep my car thanks. I drive between 3 different location constantly and transport equipment between them.
The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
A basic income will fix everything, basically.
ummmm.... nope.
I want to live, not die horribly in terror.
What a fucked up future we are envisioning for ourselves. No thank you!
Summon the free ride to McDonalds/Starbucks/Walmart smart car that's close to the place you want to go.
If this were feasible, those same businesses would already be operating public transit (buses with drivers) with the same premise. So what's missing? Ah, it's income qualification be make sure the passengers have enough disposable income to make purchases likely. Now THAT I can believe.
"He took a duck in the face at 250 knots." -- William Gibson, Pattern Recognition
In 90s, I used to stay in Pasadena. During 1994 World Cup, Pasadena businesses started free bus service which will take people from across the town to downtown and Rosebowl for free. It had good coverage and frequency. Not sure if it is still there and if not when did they shutdown but it was there at least for 3 - 4 years that I know of.
I remember reading on slashdot maybe ten years ago about how airlines were going to be free (I think paid for b advertising or something like that) as benefit of the new economy.
Whatever happened to that?
not everything needs or should be left in the hands of the 'free' market. Especially when the market isn't exactly free. I paid for all those roads you know... And I probably paid for the research that made the self driving cars work (public University + subsidized student loans). I've never understood why people, especially Americans, are so keen to pay for things and then give them away to rich folk so they can sell them back to you. Is maintaining our psuedo free market really that important? If you think the aristocracy is going to settle for small government for themselves you're just nuts. What's the old quote, Capitalism for the poor and Socialism for the rich. Give up and let's all just have socialism.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Talk about a captive audience.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
It the American Dream. Everyone here thinks that they will filthy rich in the future so we believe that the Free Market is gods greatest gift.
The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
station musicians, break-dancers want your coins and cash.
So the idea presented in the summary probably wouldn't be popular enough to work, but there is a similar idea that would potentially work. The key idea in all of this is that transportation costs in electric self-driving cars are low enough to do things that would be crazy now.
So what could work is businesses offering free rides to and from their businesses. You want to shop at Amazon Whole Foods? They'll send you a car. Want groceries from Price Chopper, you'll have to figure out how to get there yourself. This can be another tool for big stores to force the little guys out.
Of course, what they're looking at right now is letting you shop online and then having the merchandise delivered to you, but there's no reason they can't deliver you to the merchandise.
... against driverless cars.
Seriously, I've never passed my test (lessons left me feeling so stressed that I didn't feel safe), but this could convince me if it were the future of mass transit.
And occasionally, I give a particularly good one some cash.
I'd rather pay to ride public transit or drive my own car instead of living in that dystopian hell. If you think that's a realistic view of the future, I weep for your parents -- they clearly failed you -- and humanity in general.
Both your preferred options will still be available to you, so I don't get what the problem is. If you don't like it, don't use it. And I'm sure you'll also be able to engage an autonomous vehicle for a fee that will take you directly to your destination. In fact, I expect that if you're in a hurry you'll be able to "bribe" other autonomous cars to make way for yours so that you can speed along. For those with no money though, it'll be a blessing to be able to travel for no out-of-pocket expenditure, at the cost of their time.
Alternatively I suspect that households will continue to purchase a self-driving car - simply because sharing a car which doesn't go directly where you want it to smacks too much of public transport.
However the majority of families will only need one car to cover all the activities that they'd previously require two for - simply because a self-driving car can drive itself between two locations without the need for a human to be in control.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
Uber: "Sir, your Uber ride will be free, but only if you stop at the Purple Rhino Gentleman's Club."
Me: "Oh well, if I have to, I have to."
You are welcome on my lawn.
If people are being taken to destinations chosen by a sponsor can they keep criminals from arranging to have victims taken to an arranged soon-to-be crime scene? Want to rob, kidnap, rape or murder someone? Arrange a free ride sponsorship that makes a "special stop" somewhere remote.
Sort of like Craig's List, but without the target knowing they will be "meeting someone".
Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
iRobU is SO Convenient!
And I'm currently in my 30s!
where even stupid advertisers would subsidize this. The smarter among us live "out here" where this would never fly. Yeah, it's 26 miles round trip to the beer store. It's also a 45 minute drive to the nearest place crime happens. You can keep your cities. I'll take the fresh air, good food, good people, and lack of bullshit over that anyday. I can bring home a truckload of whatever and not need to go out all that much, all it takes is a plan.
Why guess when you can know? Measure!
I was thinking Stallman's "free as in speech or free as in beer" where you can get free beer but no choice in the kind of beer. So a free ride but no choice in where the ride will go?
mfwright@batnet.com
Everyone here thinks that they will filthy rich in the future so we believe that the Free Market is gods greatest gift.
We will be filthy rich in the future, just not in the have a ton more than everybody else sense.
It'll be closer to our poor are richer than all medieval royalty.
Robots will produce mind-boggling abundance.
Take someone from the 80s, used to renting VHS tapes from their local shop, and bring them forward to today.
Show them Netflix. You rent the ENTIRE STORE for $10 and you get to keep them A WHOLE MONTH?
Robotic abundance will be like that. You have an ENTIRE MALL of clothing for $25?!
We'll all be filthy rich in the sense that we'll all have everything we need and most of what we want.
A few years back VR was going to revolutionize and transform and all that mumbo jumbo. It arrived to a "meh". The hype has not panned out into sales or adoption rates and nobody talks about VR much or gets very excited any more.
Before that it was 3D TV's.
Autonomous cars are similarly awesome cool technology in search of a point. I don't dispute that huge amazing strides have been made in the field, but all the predictions of personal car ownership's impending illegality are about as believable as the hype around VR and 3D TV's. Even if we all assume cars roll out with spotless safety it does not automatically follow that a real honest to god business case will appear as well. Articles like this just back up that autonomous cars are in their spaghetti on the wall phase. The tech is so cool that it just has to revolutionize the world, so you get this wild predictions as people contort themselves to imagine a future in which the revolution has already come to pass.
In 10 or even 20 years we'll see autonomous taxis and delivery trucks, but I am betting that almost every household will still have 2-5 cars sitting out front, and that outside of the densest city centers we will hardly see a dent in personal car ownership rates.
Create a company that croudsources the most convienent "destination" and orders the right combination of requests to bypass the most wait times. Much like a cross between partial leg air fare calculators and ad blocking. Future billionaire that cashes in on this, you are welcome.
Watching commercials sucks, but mute is a good friend.
Getting stuck in a live commercial? What's the word for this? I'm limited by English!!!
We'll all be filthy rich in the sense that we'll all have everything we need and most of what we want.
"most". How about good-looking women? You cannot persuade them with something nice that's available in abundance and everyone has.
Unless the driver was a Muslim
Your analogy is flawed. It's more like, take someone from the 80s, used to stealing cable TV, and show them pirated video downloads. The economics of free TV piracy haven't changed, only the technology has changed.
Mind boggling abundance of transportation never existed, not then and not now, because roads and vehicles are still limited resources.
It's not guns that makes you free, it's mobility to a better economy. But thats all over for USAmericans now. keke.
Women became a lost cause as soon as they could afford to buy their own vibrators.
I remember being a tourist in China. The good old CITS had the van/bus stopping to visit various shopping locations between historical or cultural stops. This would fit right into their model.
Can't the price just be ads? Ad-blockers are apparently great. I'm not sure if there's a McDonalds blocker yet.
Requiem for the American Dream
We'll all be filthy rich in the sense that we'll all have everything we need
This is what you need.
and most of what we want.
I want an F40 Ferrari. I guess 'most of' would be defined as a Porsche 911. I will just have to make do.
Have gnu, will travel.
âThe âoesponsoringâ money comes from somewhere (hint: thatâ(TM)s you)â
Me from 2009: https://groups.google.com/foru... ..."
"This essay explain why luxury safer electric (or plug-in hybrid) cars should be free-to-the-user at the point of sale in the USA, and why this will reduce US taxes overall. Essentially, unsafe gasoline-powered automobiles in the USA pose a high cost on society (accidents, injuries, pollution, defense), and the costs of making better cars would pay for themselves and then some. This essay is an example of using post-scarcity ideology to understand the scarcity-oriented ideological assumptions in our society and how those outdated scarcity assumptions are costing our society in terms of creating and maintaining artificial scarcity.
Also from that essay:
"So, why don't we do this right now? I'd suggest it is mainly due to scarcity ideology creating artificial scarcity. For instance, the same computer technologies that can be used to design and operate safer cars are instead used to manage electronic credit or to produce fancy advertising and astroturfing related to promoting free market fundamentalism.
Essentially, it's all ideology (or ignorance, or corruption, or vested interests, which may all be essentially the same thing), because as I show above, it is even financially cheaper to be both financially-subsidized free-as-in-beer and open source free-as-in-freedom. There are also other various freedoms that safer free-to-the-user electric cars would give us (including freedom from seeing loved ones die in car accidents, by cancer caused by gasoline additives, or by hurricanes caused by global climate change).
So, I'd suggest, over the next ten to twenty years, this is a major change we will likely see in the USA's personal transportation system -- self-driving free-to-the-user safer electric cars (or plug-in hybrids) built using FOSS methodology. And, taxes will then go *down*, along with other direct to the user expenses for insurance, maintenance, and energy, because our transportation system will then, by adjusting for externalities (like national security, pollution, and health care costs), be cheaper overall to design, build, operate, and recycle."
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
you are the problem. Expire so that your parasites can.
Because free is not sustainable.
..and you have to listen to commercial jingles on full balls, all... the... F... way!
Buy Johnson's earplugs for your next trip, guaranteed to block all sound.
Hmm, that's a weird auto-correct...
You can try this out in Bangkok - not autonomous cars, but you agree to go somewhere with a tuk-tuk driver, and on the way he just happens to also take you to a jewelry store and make a stop by his uncle's restaurant.
Advertisement sponsored rides - no thank you.
The cost of a taxi probably cannot go below $1/mile (US). The average distance of a ride varies by city, but let's say 5 miles. So $5 is the cost that must be covered. How much would a customer have to spend at the mall to pay for that taxi ride? The profit margin at retail stores varies from 1.3% (pharmacy)-3.5% (high end department store). So the average customer would have to spend at least $200 per trip to make this business model pay. As others have pointed out, the wealthier customers will not use this service, so $200 seems wildly optimistic.
COE
The author is delusional. Also, I expect, under 35. You'll understand when you're older.
15 minutes translates to different dollar amounts for different people. For the minimum wage employee, that's a few bucks. For the overpaid lawyer, that might be several hundred dollars. You do that twice a day five days a week, that adds up no matter who you are. Of course, you'd no longer be able to say that 15 minutes saved you 15% on your car insurance by switching to Geico.
And free from privacy; what you do and say inside the car can be recorded and shared with an uncountable number of others who would otherwise have no idea what you did or said. The car you ride in is not your car, so you'll have no permission to inspect or modify the car to let you retain your privacy as you take an ad-sponsored ride. Your location log can be shared as well; people everywhere for all time can use that information to evaluate you for all sorts of things you didn't expect: your next job application, getting a loan, getting insurance, going out on a date, paying for goods and services, and more. We see this with DNA-based services that tell you about your family. The recorded information can and likely will outlive you, helping to form your legacy for generations of people you'll never meet (including people who will be born after you die). Contrary to what the Atlantic concludes ("This future might seem, at first glance, like a techno-utopian scenario. Yet little will have really changed. Like the Las Vegas cabbie, the goal of these systems will be to make profit for themselves.") this future is quite unlike anything humanity has had to deal with in such an organized fashion and there's more at stake than some organization's zeal for profit. There's a lot for you to lose when you don't value your freedom and your privacy.
Digital Citizen
This is essentially what already happens in tourist Bangkok when you take cheap tuk-tuk. Pay full price or else take a super cheap price but we need to visit my uncle’s factory on the way.
This is not the way it will go. With no requirement for drivers, McDonald's and Starbuck's will come to me - all goods will come to me. The fixed locations become pure kitchens and warehouses. If I want to eat someplace different on a special occasion, I may go to a location designed for that but the food of whatever type I choose will still be brought to me wherever I may be, not made there.