Slashdot Mirror


Postcard From Pyongyang: The Airport Now Has Wi-Fi, Sort of (apnews.com)

Eric Talmadge, writing for AP: North Korea is one of the least Wi-Fi-friendly countries in the world. Having a device that emits Wi-Fi signals can result in detention and a major fine. Worse, if you are a North Korean. Public use of the internet is a concept that just makes North Korean officials really nervous. But here's a sign that might be changing. North Korea's main internet provider appears to have put up a Wi-Fi trial balloon at the international departure area of Pyongyang's airport. It's a logical place to start. The service is only available, or even visible, to travelers who have already cleared customs, which included me last week. The reporter was unable to actually get the Wi-Fi to work, however.

27 of 141 comments (clear)

  1. Honey ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... pot.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:Honey ... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Informative

      A honeypot doesn't work if you can't log in. This is an example of Hanlon's Razor.

      The Norks have figured out how to build and launch ICBMs, but setting up a functioning Wifi hotspot is still beyond their capability.

    2. Re: Honey ... by olsmeister · · Score: 2

      At the same time, they get to snoop on the communications and perhaps obtain sensitive information in the process.

      Soooo..... Honeypot?

  2. One last chance ... by ScentCone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    One last chance to hack foreigners' devices on their way out of the country, when they're burned out, less attentive, anxious to connect to the outside world, and jumping right into checking email and other communications. Gee, I wonder why they'd try this.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  3. Re: Free wifi... by Opportunist · · Score: 5, Funny

    Damn right. My grandpa died in a concentration camp.

    He was drunk and fell off a watchtower, but still.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  4. Re:Unacceptable by arth1 · · Score: 2

    They can't even get an access point to work, yet we should believe our fuhrer when he blames them for quite sophisticated hacking.

  5. Why would you go to North Korea intentionally? by sjbe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    North Korea is one of the least Wi-Fi-friendly countries in the world.

    They could drop the word Wi-Fi from that sentence and it would still be true. I really cannot fathom any sane reason to travel to that country.

    1. Re:Why would you go to North Korea intentionally? by IWantMoreSpamPlease · · Score: 2

      Here is my thought to peacefully topple NK.
      Line up, on the border, elbow to elbow, huge tables of fresh food, and grills cooking all manner of food (steak, ribs, BBQ, you name it.)
      Then run giant fans blowing the food smell to the North Korean side.
      Put up monster sized banners saying "free, all you can eat, come one, come all"

      NK would fall within a day. No shots fired.

      --
      So rise up, all ye lost ones, as one, we'll claw the clouds.
  6. How do you know? by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    A honeypot doesn't work if you can't log in.

    All a honeypot REALLY requires is that you try to connect, then it blows out the TCP connection stack and downloads whatever it likes onto your device. Why even pretend a login is working when it's done everything it needs to do? Do you seriously doubt there are a ton of cheap Android phones you could easily root this way, probably even older iOS versions?

    The point of the honeypot is that it draws targets in that are then infected in some way, so this easily qualifies...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:How do you know? by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Informative

      What does it mean to "blow out" a TCP connection?

      As part of the negotiation setting up a WiFi connection there is a lot of back and forth, with a lot of opportunity to attack the code around this process. I don't know why a non-programmer would be on Slashdot, but blowing out a connection STACK means overflowing buffers or other similar attacks that would allow the device pretending to be a wiFi node to inject running code on the device that tries to connect. Look at the various types of datagrams here which you can mangle in various ways to try and attack a system.

      I also don't see what "cheap" has to do with it.

      They are less likely to be supported and updated with security patches.

      They are running the same networking software on the same core hardware (ARM) as more expensive Android phones.

      Um, no. They are generally running OLDER versions with known vulnerabilities, and over time will be even more vulnerable as more exploits are discovered and the devices remain un-pacthed because they are, well cheap and no-one cares. This is pretty basic stuff dude.

      Don't have time to give you a whole computer security course so I'll let you have the last response. But you really should do more research before you post.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    2. Re:How do you know? by BronsCon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't know why a non-programmer would be on Slashdot

      Because it's "News for Nerds", not "Peniswaving for Programmers". I remember when ours (programming) used to be an open and welcoming community. You are what is wrong with it today.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    3. Re:How do you know? by Shoten · · Score: 2

      Honeypot just means you spy on the data. It's not going to "blows out the TCP connection stack and downloads whatever it likes onto your device".

      And actually a honeypot would be very easy to set up. Make sure people have to log in with a local phone number like the Chinese do, and then you can work back from an IP to a phone number. If you force all mobile providers to get an ID you can track that back to a person.

      So now you've got a system where you can see people do on the internet. For maximum Orwellianness I'd allow access to sites that are normally blocked and just see who tries to visit them.

      Hell why not man in the middle SSL sites so facebook.com goes to facebook.nk. Facebook.nk would log times, IP, text, basically everything.

      Most devices will complain about the certificate not matching, but then most people will probably click to connect anyway. Of course a competent government would send an national security letter that forces facebook to sign the MITM site, in which case browsers will connect without complaining.

      The downside to MITM'ing sites of course is that someone will eventually notice. Then again I bet if the NSA does this sort of thing the MITM site is probably colocated with an indistinguishable from the servers it is MITMing.

      UNLIMITED POWER!

      However if you're China or North Korea hopefully things are not set up so you can force a local company to issue a certificate that lets you MITM a US site.

      While the poster (the one who talks about "blowing out the TCP connection stack," whatever the fuck that means) has the social skills of a rabid ferret, a honeypot can do pretty much what you want it to do; in that respect, he/she does have a good point. And a vulnerability exists which would operate in this fashion as well There was a nasty vulnerability (Broadpwn) in Broadcomm mobile SoCs that can be exploited in exactly this way (via a hostile WiFi AP) without even successfully connecting to a network. It was patched earlier this year...but if you're on an Android phone that isn't particularly new, you are likely vulnerable due to the OS fragmentation/support issue on that platform. And that, of course, ignores other forms of information harvesting (like recording SSID advertisements), or the possibility that they're maybe trying to MiTM everything but haven't gotten their kit working right yet.

      Normally I would chalk fears like this up to paranoia...but this is the lounge for international travelers in North Korea's only international airport. I mean, honestly...if I could think of a single place that's most likely a site where travelers would be attacked, this is it. It's practically a line out of a comedy, it's so over-the-top as a description of a risky situation. Can we really say that North Korea...NORTH KOREA...has set up a WiFi network specifically for visiting foreigners just out of the goodness of their heart?

      --

      For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
    4. Re:How do you know? by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2

      While the poster (the one who talks about "blowing out the TCP connection stack," whatever the fuck that means) has the social skills of a rabid ferret,

      Lulz

      Normally I would chalk fears like this up to paranoia...but this is the lounge for international travelers in North Korea's only international airport. I mean, honestly...if I could think of a single place that's most likely a site where travelers would be attacked, this is it. It's practically a line out of a comedy, it's so over-the-top as a description of a risky situation. Can we really say that North Korea...NORTH KOREA...has set up a WiFi network specifically for visiting foreigners just out of the goodness of their heart?

      Honestly when it comes to hoovering up data on an industrial scale, you can't really beat the US. I noticed my Samsung Galaxy S5 which was ancient started getting frequent 'security updates' when I was in NYC. Maybe I'm paranoid but I always assumed the NSA had sent national security letters to Google, Samsung, the carriers, etc to make sure their latest SmurfKit was running on it.

      http://www.zdnet.com/article/m...

      The S5 started to run a lot slower and hotter and I ended up buying a LG V20 rather than trying a firmware reset and a new battery. So those damn smurfs finally caused my elderly phone to die. Still, it's actually kind of endearing to be honest. The US and UK working together on cutting edge SIGINT, Bletchley Park style, in a way that some commie shithole like NK or even China can only dream of.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    5. Re: How do you know? by Type44Q · · Score: 3, Funny

      What does it mean to "blow out" a TCP connection

      Zeroes and ones all over the fucking place; it's a hell of a mess. Clearly you're not a network engineer...

  7. Re:Why does Europe tolerate Kim Jong-Un? by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The United States tolerates other countries operated by dictators with ruthless policies as well.

    Normally "good" countries tolerate "bad" countries when...
    1. The "Bad" country has something the "Good" country wants or needs.
    2. The "Bad" country isn't in direct competition, to the "Good" countries self interests.
    3. The "Bad" country just isn't that important.
    4. The "Bad" country is upholding a policy, borders, and or anything else that promotes the "Good" countries self interest.
    5. The "Bad" country is a line of defense from a "Worse" country that the "Good" country is having problems with.

    For the most part Countries respect the sovereignty that an other country has, and realizes its morals and polices will not match their own. Other countries looking at us, can probably find many things that we do, that are just as reprehensible as we accuse them for doing.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  8. Re: Free wifi... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2

    Gallows humor, no offense intended. For what it's worth, I never met my grandfather. He died in front of a German firing squad in 1942 while my grandmother was pregnant with my mother. His sister just spent the next three years in a concentration camp, being subject to medical experiments. She survived. Barely.

  9. Re: Free wifi... by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 2

    Concentration camps are used in N Korea and other countries still have them as well. It's not really racially insensitive when they aren't used exclusively against a race. Even the Nazis put political opponents in concentrations camps.

  10. Reading the article by JustNiz · · Score: 2

    I feel incredibly sorry for the poor North Korean woman who was staffing the Internet booth. I'm sure in the context of North Korea that's probably a prestigious job and she was clearly not in a position to do anything to solve the actual technical problem (which is probably to just bypass a ridiculously over-anal spying firewall).

    I can only imagine what the Nork government are doing to her and 3 generations of her family right now because they interpret the incident to be that she caused a westerner.to see that North Korean infrastructure is anything less than perfect.

    1. Re:Reading the article by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 2

      I can only imagine what the Nork government are doing to her and 3 generations of her family right now because they interpret the incident to be that she caused a westerner.to see that North Korean infrastructure is anything less than perfect.

      I think without meaning to, you've actually hit on how Stalinist dictatorial regimes stay in power. Probably this specific incident isn't a big deal and nothing happens to anybody. But that is kind of how these regimes survive. You never really know what exactly is going to set off the top guy or somebody near him. People think that if they act loyally that they never have to worry about someone coming after them, but that's not true at all. Your neighbor can have a grudge against you and report you as a spy and the people in charge may find it easier to just kill you and not have to worry about you than to investigate the charge. You never know who might be a government spy, so you can't plan revolution with anybody because they might be a spy or they might simply turn you in to try to elevate themselves. Graveyards are filled with loyal subjects to Stalinist regimes who thought "They'll never come after me because I'm loyal". So while you're probably not really correct here, the unpredictability of who they will come after and when is how they never get overthrown.

  11. One Day... by sycodon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    North Korea will fall. Either by violence from outside or from within.

    When the dust settles, the world will learn of the atrocities they suspect now, but are really unwilling to admit to.

    At that time, the entire world will be ashamed to have let the Cancer that is North Korea live for so long.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:One Day... by Altrag · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Some day, yes. It won't be from within any time soon though. The military is way too strong and the populace too weak and well-controlled to really get anything going. Of course if and when it does get going, it would by necessity have to be a surprise to everyone not involved so I suppose its possibly that they've been planning something for 20 years that they'll spring on the DPRK any day now.

      Outside violence would likely have to be initiated by DPRK themselves though. China still supports them and nobody else is going to initiate action against them while China's hovering in the background. As long as North Korea just continues testing and threatening with their nukes rather than actually using them, its unlikely even the US will try to stop them.

      are really unwilling to admit to.

      Nobody's unwilling to admit it. They're just unsure what to do about it. Attacking NK has a good chance of pissing off China, and nobody really wants a war with China at this point. If China themselves decide to annex NK then there might be something doing, but the rest of the world won't have much involvement.

      And even if China does take action, we're likely to end up with another, possibly even more tense standoff as there's a chance they'd want the entire Korean peninsula rather than just half of it.

      But for fun lets say China just steps out all together and the US is free to attack NK themselves. What then? Do we try to merge it with South Korea? Do we annex it ourselves and try to hold it as a colony? Attempt to set up a puppet government which has worked oh-so-well in South America and the Middle East when we've tried it before. Or do we just destroy everything and then walk away and leave them to their own devices? Merging with SK sounds like the best option but that's a lot of hatred built up over the last few decades so that wouldn't be easy by any means (never mind the purely practical aspect of figuring out how to de-mine the neutral zone.) And none of the other options sound particularly good either.

      ashamed to have let the Cancer that is North Korea live for so long.

      North Korea is bad but its not the worst we've seen, or ignored. We've got an ongoing genocide in Myanmar right now. It was only a couple of years ago that Syria was using chemical weapons against its own citizens. Rwanda wasn't all that long ago and the list goes on. Sure we took a pot shot at Syria, more because Trump wanted try blowing something up after he came into office than because it actually accomplished anything, but otherwise we've pretty much left all of those things (and many others) to play themselves out.

      Malnutrition and hard work, no matter how repressive, is still better than being flat out slaughtered in most peoples' opinions.. especially when you're comparing a slow, painful death like the sarin gas attacks in Syria.

    2. Re:One Day... by nasch · · Score: 2

      If we fully admitted to it, then we would do something about it.

      Sounds like a No True Scotsman fallacy. We (depending on who is included in "we") fully admitted the genocide in Rwanda was happening, but didn't do much of anything about it.

  12. Re: Unacceptable by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2

    The interesting thing about hacking is that you can have a few smart and determined people in a building with a 56K modem and some old computers and they can still do it. You don't need much infrastructure.

    The US's enemies - Iran, China, Russia and North Korea, etc don't really have a shortage of smart people. North Korea has almost no infrastructure, but that doesn't matter for asymmetric things like hacking. In fact if you lived in North Korea, hacking enemies of the state is basically the nearest you can get to entrepreneurship - you'd get a decent apartment, extra rations and protection from the bureaucracy.

    E.g. if you read about how well people like Sakharov lived before they were dissidents

    https://www.hoover.org/researc...

    His embrace of human rights did not come through a sudden conversion. Scrupulously honest, and almost naÃve in his understanding of politics and power, he came to it in stages. Let me give you a brief chronology of the metamorphosis.

    First came his concern about the radioactive fallout from atmospheric testing. But in those years, in the 1950s, the concerns were still new, and raising them was possible within the scientific and political elite. These were issues Sakharov could take up directly with Nikita Khrushchev, even though he was at times rebuffed and put in his place for meddling in politics.

    Then came the Academy of Science elections in 1964 at which Sakharov openly spoke out against accepting an ally of the pseudo-scientist Trofim Lysenko. The Academy of Science, in fact, was probably the closest to a democratic institution in the Soviet state, where full members could still vote to reject a candidate pushed by the Kremlin.

    So far, Sakharov's activities were still within the bounds of permissible debate for someone of his standing in the elite. Yet as Sakharov noted in his Memoirs, the academy vote, like the struggle against atmospheric testing, marked another step on the way to becoming active in civic affairs.

    The turning point for Sakharov, as for the entire dissident movement, came in the mid-1960s. These were years in which Sakharov signed a petition against the rehabilitation of Stalin, followed by a letter against the enactment of the law against defaming the Soviet state, which became the basis for the prosecution of many dissidents, followed by a decision to join in a demonstration on Pushkin Square on Constitution Day.

    Then came his first letter, this one to Leonid Brezhnev, in support of a dissident, and then his involvement in the movement to save Lake Baikal.

    What is amazing to realize now is that in those years, Sakharov had such high rank that he could pick up a special phone and directly call the KGB chief, Yuri Andropov, as he did in 1967 to seek the release of the writers Andrei Sinyavsky and Yuli Daniel.

    These phones, known as vertushka, connected members of the top nomenklatura [chief officials]-I managed to steal one from the Kremlin during the chaos of 1991, and I learned then that the name, vertushka, which means "dial," comes from the fact that the elite network was the first to use dial phones.

    If you're in a hellish totalitarian state helping the powers that be gives you a lot of privilege - not just a nice apartment and elite rations but you're get a vertushka phone you can call the head of the secret police on for a chat.

    And, like I say, places like Russia don't a shortage of smart people. Like this chap

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    Also most Western consumer stuff - iOS, Android, Windows, macOS - is full of vulnerabilities.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  13. Re:Hi I'm a writer for Assoc Press by networkBoy · · Score: 2

    If you read his posts you'd know sever things about him:
    1) he *assumes* everything is on the record and monitored at all levels while in country.
    2) he has completely different kit for in and out of DPRK.

    Given that context having his phone or any other device hacked doesn't actually impact him as he's operating on the assumption that such compromise has already happened.

    I assume (no overt post saying so, but given his other posts it seems likely) that once back in Japan he dumps everything DPRK related into a box. and doesn't touch it again until the next trip back.

    --
    whois gawk date unzip strip find touch finger mount join nice man top fsck grep eject more yes exit umount sleep dump
  14. Re:Be careful, Kim Jung Un by hey! · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Killing Benigno Aquino is what toppled Marcos' regime. I actually met Aquino when he was an MIT fellow. My first reaction when I heard he was going back was "Marcos will have him killed." Doing it before Aquino even got off the tarmac was a mistake; he should have met with an "accident". But then that was only the culmination of a whole train of mistakes, which started by allowing a young, charismatic politician to become the focus of opposition hopes.

    So your analogy doesn't really work. The lesson for a tyrant is don't let your opponents become publicly notable. Keep people you can't trust inside the country where you can watch them and restrict them effectively. If they do manage leave the country, don't let them back in, or even adopt the pretense that they're free to return. Kill them while they are *languishing* in exile with no prospect of return. These are all lessons the DPRK has followed assiduously.

    Practice makes perfect applies to tyranny as much as anything else, you just can't be half-hearted or half-assed about it.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  15. Re:Why does Europe tolerate Kim Jong-Un? by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2
    Why does Europe tolerate Kim Jong-Un?

    Because there is about half the world between us and them, and the people in the middle have a lot of guns and little sense of humour - especially the Americans and Russians (who have the biggest lumps of land between us and NK).

    KJU probably is not a major threat to us - he is more of a laughing stock. Sure he is a major threat to his own people - but as we all should know by now, interfering in other country's affairs does not generally improve the situation. Its not impossible that his own people will decide they might as well kill him - they are going to die anyway - why not take him with them.

    If we do in the "American way" (go in with all guns blazing) it will end the way it always does - masses of "collateral damage" and no significant change in the big picture. This is not traditionally our preferred approach.

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  16. Re:Why does Europe tolerate Kim Jong-Un? by Ken+McE · · Score: 2

    North Korea is like an insane pit bull that China keeps chained up on their back porch. Nobody sane is going to go around there, they know it will automatically bite the living fark out of them. This suits China just fine. If someone *did* mess with the dog they would quickly find that it's master was coming out with the shotgun and a bad attitude, and was even worse to deal with than the dog.