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That Game on Your Phone May Be Tracking What You're Watching on TV (nytimes.com)

Rick Zeman writes: The New York Times (may be paywalled) has an article describing how some apps track TV and movie viewing even when the loaded app isn't currently active. These seemingly innocuous games, geared towards both adults and children work by "using a smartphone's microphone. For instance, Alphonso's software can detail what people watch by identifying audio signals in TV ads and shows, sometimes even matching that information with the places people visit and the movies they see. The information can then be used to target ads more precisely...." While these apps, mostly available on Google play, with some available on the Apple Store, do offer an opt opt, it's not clear when consumers see "permission for microphone access for ads," it may not be clear to a user that, "Oh, this means it's going to be listening to what I do all the time to see if I'm watching 'Monday Night Football."'
One advertising executive summarizes thusly: "It's not what's legal. It is what's not creepy."

98 comments

  1. duh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Gosh, running proprietary software on your computers comes with great risk? Yeah, that sounds like an important news story .. from maybe 20 years ago.

    1. Re:duh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      20 years ago you didn't carry a computer around with you that was on all the time and connected to the internet.

    2. Re:duh? by rogoshen1 · · Score: 0

      good fucking luck escaping it Stallman.

    3. Re:duh? by WaffleMonster · · Score: 2

      Gosh, running proprietary software on your computers comes with great risk? Yeah, that sounds like an important news story .. from maybe 20 years ago.

      At no prior time in history have "legitimate" storefronts offered such a massive array of harmful software.

      The problem is perverse incentives and associated market failure directly resulting from app store environment.

    4. Re:duh? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      20 years ago you didn't carry a computer around with you that was on all the time and connected to the internet.

      You have to opt- IN to allow the App to access your microphone.

      From the article:

      “The consumer is opting in knowingly and can opt out any time,”

      "Mr. Chordia also said that Alphonso did not approve of its software being used in apps meant for children."

      They also state that Apps using the software (Alphonso) have it listed in the Play Store descriptions. You can check by searching here: https://play.google.com/store/search?q=%22alphonso%20automated%22&hl=en

      For users of iPhone and the iStore, you're out of luck. You'll just have to guess as to whether or not your Apps have the software because Apple has vetted those Apps as 100% OK and meeting with their developer guidelines, so Fuck You Citizen you don't need to know about what they're doing.

  2. TV? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can remember watching TV, back a couple of decades ago. They can't track my books by the sound effects in my head

    1. Re:TV? by arth1 · · Score: 1

      I can remember watching TV, back a couple of decades ago. They can't track my books by the sound effects in my head

      No, but micro-ridges and dimples in the paper can act like a bar code when you move your finger along it, or slide a finger along an edge to turn a page.
      Much like you can identify the brand of corduroy trousers or shoes by the sounds the wearer makes, just at a smaller scale.

    2. Re:TV? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      So all those advertisements for AARP comes from my love of Dragnet, Mash, Adam 12, Emergency, and 1950s science fiction?

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
    3. Re:TV? by Pascoea · · Score: 1

      How far can you see from that high horse you're on?

    4. Re:TV? by mikael · · Score: 1

      Remember TiVo. It tried to profile people based on the few programs that they had watched. Watch M*A*S*H and you are a liberal anti-war peace protestor. Watch A-Time or a World War II Action movie and you are right-wing gun nut with neo-nazi sympathies.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    5. Re:TV? by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Well, we know they scan the FCC amateur radio database. I got my first AARP mail when I was 25 and got my tech license. It's an old man hobby, they're looking for a target rich environment for almost and already retired folks.

    6. Re:TV? by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

      Then I wonder what they think of my watching both MASH and EWTN World Tonight with Raymond Arorryo.

      --
      SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  3. Not on an iPhone by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Informative

    Bears repeating but on the iPhone you have to explicitly allow microphone access, and even if you granted that to a game for some reason, if it had the microphone on there would be a big indicator atop the top of the screen indicating recording was active.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re: Not on an iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always opt in so whoever is tracking me can listen to and watch clown penis porn with me

    2. Re:Not on an iPhone by green1 · · Score: 1

      Not on Android either, you have to explicitly grant Microphone permission (it even says so right in the summary!)

      Of course many people are too stupid to think that if they allow microphone permission that the app might actually listen to the microphone.....

    3. Re:Not on an iPhone by tsa · · Score: 1

      So? What if Whatsapp does this? Knowing the people at FB I would be surprised if they hadn't at least thought of this.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    4. Re:Not on an iPhone by EndlessNameless · · Score: 1

      Android needs this feature badly. I assume there's one for the camera as well? (Not an iPhone user)

      Both platforms need OS-level toggles for camera/mic, similar to the one for location. They can even dummy-proof it a little by allowing the native phone app to ignore it, and maybe even allowing other apps to read the setting so they can pop a warning if need be.

      --

      ---
      According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
    5. Re:Not on an iPhone by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      Not on Android either, you have to explicitly grant Microphone permission (it even says so right in the summary!)

      In the past at least, you had to accept a whole bag of permissions at once for an app on Android. I think that's still the case for some older phones, does Android now ask for only the microphone permission when the app tries to use it? Or do you still agree up-front to a set of permissions that might include Microphone without you noticing?

      Beyond that though, I'm pretty sure Android does not have the indicator letting you know recording is active.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    6. Re:Not on an iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whats wrong Ken?
      No tie in to libtards or "Deep State" on this topic?

      You're getting soft...

    7. Re:Not on an iPhone by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Informative

      Of course many people are too stupid to think that if they allow microphone permission that the app might actually listen to the microphone.....

      According to TFA, the app can listen even when it is inactive. Plenty of non-stupid people were likely unaware of that.

    8. Re:Not on an iPhone by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      You agree to a list of permissions up-front, plus any that future auto-updates add, but in recent versions of android (which not all phones get) you can go to the settings and disable individual permissions after the fact, along with a warning that the app may stop working if you do so.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    9. Re:Not on an iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your OS is up to date it will ask you for permission access either when the app launches or when it needs that access for the first time.

    10. Re:Not on an iPhone by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      According to TFA, the app can listen even when it is inactive. Plenty of non-stupid people were likely unaware of that.

      You've gotta be pretty dumb to trust an icon, or even to not be skeptical of an LED.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Not on an iPhone by green1 · · Score: 1

      How would you know if an app is active or not? Anyone "non-stupid" assumes that ALL apps are active ALL the time. There's no "Exit" feature

    12. Re:Not on an iPhone by green1 · · Score: 1

      If your OS is newer than a few years old it will ask for the permission individually when the app first tries to make use of it. You can also revoke it at any time through the settings menu.

    13. Re:Not on an iPhone by green1 · · Score: 1

      Your information is several years out of date. On "newer" versions of Android (basically any phone made in the past 3-4 years) it will individually ask for the microphone permission the first time you use it, and you will have to specifically click "allow" on the microphone permission before it can do so. You can also go to settings and disable the individual permission after the fact, and there will be no warning that the app may stop working because the apps are simply expected to handle that.

    14. Re:Not on an iPhone by green1 · · Score: 1

      it's when the app first tries to access the microphone. For some apps that will be immediately on launch, for others it will be later on (for an app that wants to monitor everything you do via microphone, I suspect it will be on launch)

    15. Re:Not on an iPhone by reanjr · · Score: 1

      Yeah, same thing on Android. So, what's your point?

    16. Re:Not on an iPhone by reanjr · · Score: 1

      Allowing access, at least. No indicator on Android.

    17. Re:Not on an iPhone by Local+ID10T · · Score: 1

      You've gotta be pretty dumb to trust an icon, or even to not be skeptical of an LED.

      Totally. You should only trust things that you have assembled from sub-atomic particles using the power of your own mind. Anything less and you are trusting that the evil ones have not subverted the purity of your essence! /sarc

      At some point either you trust or you do without.

      --
      "You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
    18. Re:Not on an iPhone by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      At some point either you trust or you do without.

      Or you assume your phone is listening in on you, and act accordingly. Sometimes that means doing without; if I want to have a private conversation, I don't involve a phone, and I don't do it within earshot of a friend's alexa or what have you.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    19. Re:Not on an iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your information is several years out of date

      Just let the Apple user continue to be wrong. He's living in an alternate reality anyway.

    20. Re:Not on an iPhone by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      How would you know if an app is active or not?

      Enable and then turn on "developer options". Then "running services." It is fascinating. Accuweather has four continuously running services. The stock "file manager" runs one. The United Airlines app has a "Beacon Service". The Nook app has four. Firefox has a service it runs.

      The most egregious are "google", which has upwards of a dozen system services. You can try killing "location manager" and it will almost instantly come back, even if you have location services off. Very curious. Many other apps have "search" or "index" services, which are obviously scanning your device so they can radio back info on what you have installed.

      There's no "Exit" feature

      But you can kill services and the apps they connect to.

    21. Re:Not on an iPhone by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Both platforms need OS-level toggles for camera/mic, similar to the one for location.

      Why care if an app tracks your location when Google themselves are constantly doing so? You can turn off "location" at the "OS" level, but that doesn't stop the location service from running all the time.

    22. Re:Not on an iPhone by vlueboy · · Score: 1

      Your information is several years out of date. On "newer" versions of Android (basically any phone made in the past 3-4 years)

      Let's correct a common misconception to help open a few eyes; there's a few grim reasons for the "out of date" statement... it's not that out of date. Here's the gist of what turned out to be a long post:
      "Android has had granular permissions for a while" only affects people on Android 6 (Nov 2015) and newer. It's just December 2017. Most people repeating the factoid also don't tend to consider that there's only a near-coinflip chance (46 versus 54 per hundred) that their Android-wielding listener lacks that assumed protection due to grim realities in Android version penetration issues.

      To see why Android usage is an important part of smartphone versions, here are some numbers. Smartphones make up about 35+ % of site visits with some projections from 2016 estimating 2017 ownership at close to 5 billion around the globe. Though /.ers have known that Apple had a commendable granular permissions setup for a long while, about 85% of those worldwide smartphones are on Android.

      I can't find numbers on whether Android phones for most non-tech folks are OEM-upgraded flagships phones. Apparently Apple and Samsung (and HTC) dominate the vast majority of phone purchases, so perhaps things aren't too bad given the first 2 are known for expensive flagships. Flagships are important because other phones in Android land usually get stuck with no updates, and even dare ship with the Android version from a year or two PRIOR to their release date.

      Version SIX is where all the touted granular permissions came out for Android.. That it was a new feature back in 2015 is discussed on paragraph 3 of this read for a beta of what was released some months later in 2015. This other read is more useful but puts up an anti-popup warning)

      I bought an LG G3 phone in May 2015, (it had been LG's newest flagship 12 months earlier and had already been phased out by the G4 when I bought it). It runs a version 4.4 build that I did not bother upgrading to v5. Apparently version 6 did get released over the air for my carrier, but today is first I've heard of it. That release was in May 2016. Marshmallow, Android version 6 came out in November 2015.

      We're STILL in 2017. This permissions empowerment is slightly over 2 years "new", not 4. The number TWO is also associated with the years a US contract lasts out there*. There are probably a thousands of US consumers out there that are still tied to that contract with a phone built with the old all-or-nothing permissions model, or just got a new phone with that model, living under 2 years of app tyranny.

      Versions 6 and 7 of Android have this model, but only make up 46 percent of Android phones as of September, but this leaves a whopping 54% of Android users in the all-or-nothing world. Here's a chart from Sept 2017

      It feels good denying random crap to apps. Maps wants "Contacts" "Location" "Phone" and "Storage". It freezes when I deny it location access, but the funny thing is, it then lies about this:
      "This app won't work properly unless you allow Google play services' request to access" Calendar, Camera, Contacts, Microphone, Body Sensors, SMS, Storage. Notice that even with the new model, that shows a clear, dubious discrepancy be

    23. Re:Not on an iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ~

      plus any that future auto-updates add

      Incorrect. Whenever an update is done, you are requested for new permissions and whether to grant them or not.
      A lot of apps these days have been taking advantage of dynamic permissions instead of full up-front whack of permissions both for legitimate reasons and for scummy reasons.
      They usually do it through separate "sub-apps" or packages hosted on the store. (usually with the title of app and [permission] after it.)

      nonsense personal experience + whining, ignore.
      A good example is the various Automation apps that only request a permission when you use it via script (block) at any point.
      Only one I can stand is Automate admittedly, even though it is pretty retarded in design in some cases. (especially boolean stuff, oh GOD)
      But it is the only one that works consistently well, even if its documentation is trash for any advanced feature.
      The last one I tried, Macro-something or other, absolutely SHIT on my device. It somehow launched an infinite loop that ate all resources despite it being impossible for that to have happened give the simplistic rules system.
      Worst of it, It even persisted after I uninstalled the damn app! That's borderline malware levels of broken.
      Yeah, I was not a happy boy that day I can tell you. Especially considering I was just playing around with it at 1am lazily to see how it worked. Shame as well since I liked one great feature it had, a widget with 4 usable buttons on it. (I hooked it to the screen with an overlay app, funnily enough called Overlay as well)
      Equally it's text-to-speech system actually worked, as did its accelerometer system.
      Maybe I will message the developer to replicate it and find a fix for it. Maybe. One day I will drop my childish grudge for having to restart my tablet and be exposed to full-bright at 1am and wreck my sleep that night. One day.

    24. Re:Not on an iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Glad to hear Android finally caught up with something so simple.
      I've never had to worry about an app I wanted to use, accessing something I didn't want it to.

    25. Re:Not on an iPhone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Says the guy who buys a new $600 samsung hand grenade every year to stay up-to-date?

      My device is Android 6 and will remain that way until battery life is so bad that I need to buy a new one, since the manufacturer certainly shows no interest in putting out an upgrade. I just checked and it absolutely does warn me that the app I'm removing permission from may not work.

      Maybe I should stick to Apple, they at least will make sure my devices are never "several years out of date" (though they will get slower and slower for some reason)

  4. opt opt? by Smallpond · · Score: 1

    Even getting to the options is optional

    1. Re:opt opt? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even getting to the options is optional

      Not on Android, you have to explicitly opt-in the first time you launch the App or the first time it attempts to access the microphone.

  5. People gave control of their devices away. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Early in the personal computing revolution, consumer computing devices answered to their owners, and life was good.

    In the intervening decades via millions of separate choices made by billions of separate mindless consumers, people have voted en-masse to give control of their computing devices to multinational companies, and any data-broker who wants it. They voted to disempower themselves, and give that power to surveillance capitalism companies, even when there were other good choices. They drove the good choices out of the market.

    That inevitably means that control will not be used for their benefit. Modern computing is a clusterfuck because too few people chose wisely, and too many chose unwisely. The unwise dictated the market, because they were numerous. The wise are swept along against their will, struggling to avoid the worst of the stupidity.

    The sheep have done everything in their power to steer the flock towards the looming precipice.

    1. Re:People gave control of their devices away. by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Or, as I've said many times in the past: Computers used to be fun. Not so much anymore.

      There's going to be a fork in the road, somewhere up ahead. We may never even really notice it. The right-hand path will take us to a place where there are strict controls and laws protecting people's privacy, giving them control over their data. The left-hand path will continue down the road we're currently on, where there are more and more data breaches, more and more surveillance in all aspects of our lives, and the people, becoming dumber and dumber, will trade what's left of their privacy and freedom for more 'conveniences', like the native Americans trading away Manhattan for a few baubles. Those of us who never fell for the 'smartphone' meme will be looked upon even more so as freaks, conspiracy theorists, and at worst, criminals trying to hide alleged illegal activities, when all it is we want is some core of our lives left private, not constantly under the microscope of public, corporate, and government scutiny.

      There's still a small chance that people will wake up, suddenly seeing what's been going on, experience an epiphany about what it is they've given up, and they may demand it back. Assuming that is that it's not too late to do anything about it. We'll see I guess. Of course it'll be a race to the bottom, between overreaching surveillance and spying on everyone, War to End All Wars, and human-caused global climate change, to see which one finally destroys our civilization and our species. Not sure we can stop any one of them.

    2. Re:People gave control of their devices away. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and the people, becoming dumber and dumber, will trade what's left of their privacy and freedom for more 'conveniences', like the native Americans trading away Manhattan for a few baubles

      Same AC you replied to here. That is a great analogy.

      Not sure we can stop any one of them.

      Yeah I doubt it too. People are too shortsighted. Can't be thinking about that stuff when all our time is taken up following our favorite celebs's Twitter feeds.

    3. Re:People gave control of their devices away. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      I think it's important to point out exactly how this happened. It's interesting that in this example story (which is really just one among thousands) the security breach came from a game.

      Think back to when you first saw computers that were made to directly work against the interests of their owners. Take some time.

      Was it a game console? My bet is yes. You may or may not have had specifically one of these devices, but I think THIS was one of the most pivotal moments in the history of personal computers, and it happened right under our noses while most of us didn't think it was relevant. (I was annoyed, but from the PoV of someone who saw it as a barrier to development and market entry, not as a consumer, and I think that was terribly short-sighted on my part. Ah, the fuckwittery of my youth.) This (or something like it, later) is when most mainstream "consumers" started to get into a zero-sum hostile relationship with our computers. This is when a line was crossed that shouldn't be crossed. But we didn't care (much) because, after all, geez, it's just games.

      It leaked into other things later. I bought a Tivo in 2000. Those ran Linux, but it was still proprietary and it tried to "protect" its recordings from its own user. The whole drama inspired the GPL3.

      Then in 2007 Apple Fucking Computers introduced a PC (which happened to fit in your pocket) that was based on how videogame consoles work, instead of how all the other personal computers work. Videogame consoles used to be ideologically (if not truly technologically) distinct from personal computers, but the iPhone started to blur it, and compromise PCs with the worst ideas from videogame consoles.

      And it's spreading. You don't have to be an Apple customer anymore, to be funding and legitimizing the enemy. It sucks and I'm angry about it. It's one of those things where I look at a guy who I formerly thought was a little crazy and took things too seriously, but now I have to say, "Dammit, RMS was right."

      Know how computers stopped being fun? It happened because we thought RMS was a loon, and because so many millions of computer consumers never even looked at the issue enough to bother caling anyone a loon. He really isn't. We just didn't want to listen, because hey, it's just games. Until it wasn't just games. You play games on your phone maybe (I do) but you also do other stuff on it too. How did your fucking email and comms end up within the realm of video game consoles?!? Thanks, Apple. Thanks, everyone.

      It's going to be long, twilight struggle to get our computers back now. It didn't have to be this way, but we were asleep at the switch. RMS wasn't.

    4. Re:People gave control of their devices away. by rogoshen1 · · Score: 2

      why post this AC? oh i get it!

      Seriously though, well written and succinct. The thing you didn't touch on was the convenience factor. People have decided that they'd trade a bit of privacy (hey, it's all aggregate and not PII!) for 'free' stuff like gmail. And it is pretty hard to compete with 'free' (quotes intentional).

      It's like Walmart writ large -- Walmart caters to people who's biggest differentiator for a purchase is price. Well, it turns out that that represents such a large majority of consumers, competitors get squeezed out. And it really, really sucks in the long run.

    5. Re:People gave control of their devices away. by mikael · · Score: 2

      > Or, as I've said many times in the past: Computers used to be fun. Not so much anymore.

      Amen.

      We have just piled layer and layer of software on top of hardware with these smartphones; Android is built on top of Linux, X-windows, EGL, GLES (OpenGL) from UNIX workstations. Add on all sorts of sensors like cameras, microphones, accelerometers, GPS, thermometers, barometers, hydrometers. Advertising agencies are prepared to pay for access to all that data in order to aggregate it and do data mining. Even if you as a developer don't want to participate, they'll find someone willing to clone your app and put in their advertising.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    6. Re:People gave control of their devices away. by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      You hinted at it, but didn't quite get there.

      This started long before Nintendo. This started when Bill Gates had the bright idea to not sell DOS to IBM, but to "license" it. That was when we stepped from buying a product, to thinking we bought it, but legally only renting it.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    7. Re:People gave control of their devices away. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      There's still fun to be had with computers, if you know where to look -- like in the microcontroller scene, for instance.

      It's mostly just when machines get exposed to the internet that all joy is sucked out of them.

    8. Re:People gave control of their devices away. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Think back to when you first saw computers that were made to directly work against the interests of their owners.

      For me, the introduction of the Macintosh was the first time I noticed the problem.

    9. Re:People gave control of their devices away. by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      The 'fun' computers I used to own were all hand built by yours truly and were based on microprocessors that aren't even as powerful as current tech microcontrollers. I had much more fun with a 6MHz Z80B and 64kB of RAM, CP/M, and a C compiler than I've ever had playing with anything since my first XT clone. Of course these days I don't come home and play with any hardware anymore unless something is broken and I don't write software because there's just no point and frankly I'd rather be physically active outside than sit indoors staring at another screen. But if I were a teenager/twenty-something now, I'm not so sure I'd give a damn as much about computers, because they're just not fun, you can't actually build anything anymore. Other than, as you say, microcontrollers. But electronics in general has also become much less 'fun' because all the new and hot hardware requires you to spin a whole multi-layer PCB just to get it up and running in the most basic ways. You really can't go very far with perfboard and a soldering iron anymore, not like you used to. Also the days of surplus stores is long gone, and much of my materials came from such places. Hell, there used to be half a dozen electronics stores within 25 miles of me, and now they're all dead and gone. You want anything serious anymore, you have to have it shipped in. *shrug* it's just not as fun as it used to be. There seems to be little to discover, and the younger generation seems to turn their nose up at anything that isn't strictly digital.

    10. Re:People gave control of their devices away. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I had much more fun with a 6MHz Z80B and 64kB of RAM, CP/M, and a C compiler than I've ever had playing with anything since my first XT clone.

      Me too.

      But electronics in general has also become much less 'fun' because all the new and hot hardware requires you to spin a whole multi-layer PCB just to get it up and running in the most basic ways.

      This isn't even remotely accurate. What is true is that you have to learn a new soldering technique to solder SMDs -- but once you learn it, it's easy.

      You really can't go very far with perfboard and a soldering iron anymore, not like you used to.

      Yes, you really can. Honestly, I do it all the time.

      Also the days of surplus stores is long gone, and much of my materials came from such places.

      Yes, true, and that's a very sad thing. However, there are heaping piles of discarded electronics to be had for cheap, and you can cannibalize. And what you can't cannibalize, you can buy new for cheap online.

      There seems to be little to discover, and the younger generation seems to turn their nose up at anything that isn't strictly digital.

      This is also not true. The hobbyist electronics world looked like it was dead for a while there, but it's come back in spades -- and most of that new energy is coming from the younger generation. It's us old farts that have largely given up on it. The kids are off and running with it.

  6. Big Brother is listening to you by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and sending you adverts for crap that you don't want and can't afford.
    All in the interests of your safety and security.

    This message has been bought to on behalf of
      - Data Miners Inc
      - US Government TLA's
      - Google
      - Any other people we can get to pay for this shit.

  7. Oh yeah? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    *Opens game, and pulls up pron on computer...*

  8. App rules by JohnFen · · Score: 5, Insightful

    First rule: don't install any apps that you don't have a strong need to install, and particularly avoid games.

    Second rule: don't install games.

    Third rule: install and use a firewall to prevent any app from communicating to the internet, unless internet access is needed for the app's primary purpose and you really can't live without it.

    Fourth rule: marketers are evil scum, and are getting more evil and scummier as time goes on.

    Fifth rule: don't install games

    1. Re:App rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are no firewalls on the iPhone or on unrooted android phones.

      (yeah, i know the exception where a Firewall uses the VPN-API, as soon as your connection drops (wifi mobile), the firewall also drops)...

    2. Re:App rules by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How about Rule Zero: Don't have a smartphone in the first place.

      You do know that right out of the box, never even having done so much as made a normal voice phone call on it, your smartphone was already compromised, right? Likely installed right at the factory, before it was even boxed up to ship to you, or rooted by your wireless carrier before it was handed to you. Even if none of that is true, there's so many browser-based exploits out there for smartphones that you basically can't avoid it, and that's just the normal citizen-criminals I'm talking about, not the mass surveillance machine of three-letter government agencies and their specifically-written code. Before you dismiss me as a crackpot paranoid conspiracy theorist, I suggest you reseach news stories from various sources over the last 5 years. Plenty of revelations from researchers and whistle-blowers about what can and can't be done to a smartphone to turn it into a surveillance device. And, since the wireless companies lock down the core code and OS running your phone, there's literally nothing you can do to effectively secure a smartphone the way you could secure a desktop computer; you're literally not allowed to, for most all intents and purposes. Yes, I suppose if you're a developer-level software engineer and can break into your phone at the bootloader level, completely rewrite you phone's core OS with code you've personally vetted, then you can secure it any way you want. But if you can do that then you're in a minority, a tiny fraction of a percent. But that doesn't help everyone else. For most, the line from the old movie Wargames applies: The only way to win the game is to not play.

      ..and, no, I don't have a smartphone.

    3. Re:App rules by gnick · · Score: 1

      First rule: don't install any apps that you don't have a strong need to install, and particularly avoid games.

      There's not much I need. I'm not sure I have a "strong need" for anything. But there's a lot that I like and that improve my experience interacting with my phone. I'm a big fan of Words With Friends (Scrabble).

      Second rule: don't install games.

      If I had to dump either the phone-call function or Words, I'd probably stop making calls. They're not that important and I enjoy playing Words with some of my high school buddies.

      Third rule: install and use a firewall to prevent any app from communicating to the internet, unless internet access is needed for the app's primary purpose and you really can't live without it.

      Playing online is Words's primary purpose. It's not something I "can't live without", but being essential for survival seems like a high bar for picking apps.

      Fourth rule: marketers are evil scum, and are getting more evil and scummier as time goes on.

      Their job is to extract money from rubes through whatever means necessary. Yeah, scummy.

      Fifth rule: don't install games

      Maybe your phone is a call making machine. Mine has a lot of purposes. Playing games is one of them.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    4. Re:App rules by gnick · · Score: 1

      How about Rule Zero: Don't have a smartphone in the first place.

      You do know that right out of the box, never even having done so much as made a normal voice phone call on it, your smartphone was already compromised, right?

      Or accept the fact that it's compromised but still useful. If you want 100% security, then yes, Wargames. Most of us trade greatly increased capability for slightly reduced security.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    5. Re:App rules by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Anything and everything you do and own that interacts with the outside world is a security risk. There is no such thing as "secure" in an absolute sense. So, everything involves a tradeoff between utility and security, and what balance between the two is acceptable is a very subjective thing that can only be decided for yourself.

      If your comfort level is such that smart phones aren't acceptable, that's fine. But it's also fine for those of us who are comfortable striking a different balance. My "rules" are subjective as well, but (in part) define where my security comfort level is.

      The important thing, in my view, is that you make that decision in an informed manner.

    6. Re:App rules by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I don't know about iPhones, but you're correct about Android. Which is one of the many reasons why I wouldn't use an a smartphone that wasn't rooted.

    7. Re:App rules by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      But see your 'slightly compromised security' can't be quantified; it's a known unknown, and worse, the threats themselves are unknown unknowns. This really brings it to the point of being a binary proposition; you're either completely secured or you're completely unsecured because you can't get anywhere near an accurate read on the level of threat or even the form the threat(s) will take.

    8. Re:App rules by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1
    9. Re:App rules by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      If you have to cast the situation in such binary terms, then it's easy: you're always completely unsecured in everything you do. Not just with smartphones.

    10. Re:App rules by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the firewall also drops
      Doesn't happen with me. At the most, whenever there is a connection change, app install / uninstall, the firewall restarts.
      I can understand that being a pain in 50 asses on a mobile though. Definitely root for that and install a proper firewall and / or manage your IP config manually. (in b4 the man with the best plan comes in with his blocklists, an apple without his king)

      Mind you, if your device is either old or really new, just root it regardless.
      Older devices for the sake of how awful and old they are, equally unsecure.
      Newer devices because FUCK ME they are locked down to hell and Android has all kinds of awful "features" in newer versions. (read: restrictions and annoyances)

      At least the devs went back on that dumb idea of outright ban for accessibility permission being abused without actually making a proper replacement API for the features they are abused for!
      I don't personally use any of those features in some of the apps I use, but they are stupidly handy for both abled AND disabled people especially. Who are THEY to decide an app isn't being used for its ability to aid the disabled anyway? Away with that nonsense.
      The dumb thing is you needed to explicitly and in no uncertain terms give permission to these apps manually. It was already a step above normal app permissions. Just make API replacements for these permission abuses and also make them special app permissions you need to grant manually in the same way as Accessibility permission is granted. Make a whole new category in the settings system for special app permissions and have a list of them like clipboard access, client overlay access, full overlay access and so on.
      I use Overlay apps for both quickness and accessibility reasons. I wouldn't be using base Android without that at all. Basic stock Android fucking blows. So much. It's a usability nightmare for normal people, never mind hand-cripples. (same with iOS on that note)

  9. Broadband & battery usage ? by Alain+Williams · · Score: 3, Insightful

    These things are also, presumably, chewing up your internet usage for some purpose that you have not agreed to. Likewise a running app will use processor and thus run your battery down. Both of these cost you in one way for another; the cost is part of the app writer's gain (when they sell the information, whatever) - so you are paying for part of their profit -- all without you knowing!

    This falls fair & square in the area of computer misuse.

    1. Re:Broadband & battery usage ? by Z00L00K · · Score: 2

      Blatant theft is probably a better label on that.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  10. Every dark Science Fiction story comes true. by Z00L00K · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Just read all the dark Science Fiction story out there and you'll see that they come true while we are diverting further and further away from the bright future depicted in Star Trek and similar.

    Max Headroom, 1984, Brave New World, THX1138, Soylent Green, Fahrenheit 451, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, The Running Man, Neuromancer, Logan's Run, The Dispossessed, Altered Carbon, A Clockwork Orange, Earthworks (Aldiss), The Wasp Factory, Darwin's Radio, The Stars My Destination, Memoirs Found in a Bathtub (Lem), After the Flood (P.C Jersild), The Trial (Kafka), Hyperion (Dan Simmons) to mention a few that are more or less dark.

    Trivia: I did meet P.C. Jersild once when he had lost the book he was working on due to a computer malfunction, I was able to recover it.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    1. Re:Every dark Science Fiction story comes true. by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Yeah. and The Handmaids Tale and Atlas Shrugged are meant to be cautionary tales, too; but you'll notice that certain socio-political groups are trying to use them as instruction manuals. :-(

    2. Re:Every dark Science Fiction story comes true. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the contrary, a Star Trek future is very plausible, with us (the entire species) as the Klingons, or Romulans. The weaselly 'Federation' is just a bunch of democrats anyway, democrats who fantasize about winning... LOL!

      Star Trek is a comedy, at least the original was..

    3. Re:Every dark Science Fiction story comes true. by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      I think that Ferengi is more plausible then.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    4. Re:Every dark Science Fiction story comes true. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... The Running Man ...

      The Running Man is a short story by Richard Bachmann (aka Stephen King). I recommend it as well. It differs greatly from the movie adaptation (featuring Arnold), so it will feel like a new read. To be fair, if they had done the movie like the book, Arnold would not have been the running man.

    5. Re:Every dark Science Fiction story comes true. by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      we are diverting further and further away from the bright future depicted in Star Trek

      Hell, even the modern crop of Star Trek movies have diverted away from that.

    6. Re:Every dark Science Fiction story comes true. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope we turn out like Harry Mudd.

      RGB Oh.. Sorry... I was just checking the monitor..

  11. no way, not me anyway by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    1. i dont have any games on my smartphone
    and
    2. i dont ever watch TV, i find TV far too annoying to watch anymore so i quit, the TV sits in the corner like an abandoned & condemned building waiting demolition

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:no way, not me anyway by tsa · · Score: 1

      Oooh, you're so hip and cool! Will you marry me?

      --

      -- Cheers!

    2. Re:no way, not me anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, put your mom on the phone and I'll ask for her permission.

    3. Re:no way, not me anyway by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1
  12. Fuck the stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Milk them all 100%.

  13. No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, my firewall and privacy rules prevent that, as well as disabling specific services that apps call for user metrics, prevent apps from starting themselves without user input, and especially on my kid's tablet disable background processes and background apps, and force hibernate when the screen is off.

  14. Did they hack Nielsen Ratings code? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Radio & TV shows have audio that is beyond human hearing that IDs the show.

    1. Re:Did they hack Nielsen Ratings code? by Mister+Transistor · · Score: 1

      They don't even need to do this, with the powerful pattern-matching ability of Shazam and the like, they can identify the show or commercial ad in a few seconds of sampling.

      --
      -- You are in a maze of little, twisty passages, all different... --
    2. Re:Did they hack Nielsen Ratings code? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By "Shazam", are you talking about the wizard or the superhero that he turned a kid into?

    3. Re:Did they hack Nielsen Ratings code? by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      No, he means the super absorbent wipes that you can buy off the commercial. The reason the guy yell SHAZAM so loud was that the sound monitors and pattern recognition was poor at the time the commercial was made.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
  15. iOS by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    For all the complaints about iOS, the early versions that closed all background applications now sounds like a good idea. If you didn't open it, don't run it.

    Also, an app-invisible spoofing should be kernel level. Every app gets access to everything it asks for and is granted on install, then the user can select what to spoof. "always feed the microphone white noise for any game that requests microphone access". Pokemon Go simply refused to load when "developer tools" was loaded. As I use the GPS spoofing regularly to lock my position to work or home so no app can "spy" on me, Pokemon Go was loaded once, to see what the fuss was all about, then never run. It saw me as a "hacker" for protecting my personal information. The app shouldn't be able to know.

    1. Re:iOS by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      In fairness, Pokemon Go's gameplay is entirely about your real world coordinates (determined by GPS). It's as a reasonable for that specific game to request access as Maps or a geocaching app.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    2. Re:iOS by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The access to GPS was reasonable. Disabling the game if "developer's tools" was enabled prevented the game running on many devices. Why can't I have USB root access enabled at the same time as Pokemon Go? So I gave up Pokemon Go, because they were unreasonable.

    3. Re:iOS by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      IIRC, developer's tools includes a GPS spoofing option. I get that it's an annoying restriction, but I also understand that they were making a huge bet on GPS enabled gameplay. Anything that cast a doubt on really using the GPS was a pretty high risk.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    4. Re:iOS by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Yes, but I have scripts and things that need consistent mounting of the USB as a drive. Android loves to ask after you tell it not to ask, and other things, but if you put it in developer mode, thins just work.

      I understood what they did and why, but it eliminated the game for many people.

  16. It's probably more than only game apps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Any app with microphone access might spy on the user. An obvious red flag would be if the app says it uses the microphone and the microphone isn't needed or used during the app's use.

    If there was full transparency in the terms and conditions, 99% of people wouldn't read them anyway.

    Even if the source code was available for the user to see, 99.999% of people wouldn't be able to properly parse it in order to assess if it does anything bad.

    A healthy distrust goes a long way. Who needs the Stasi when everyone voluntarily pays-for and walks around with a hot mic?

    The 0.001% of people that can spot this shit need to shepherd everybody else.

  17. Better yet by Solandri · · Score: 1

    Block network access on apps which don't need it (like most games). This prevents any data being sent back to the app's mothership, not just microphone data. Both iOS and Android allow you to block specific apps from using cellular data (on the premise of preventing data hog apps from using up your monthly data quota).

    On Android you can go a step further and control which individual apps can use cellular data, WiFi for LAN access, or WiFi for Internet access. It may require root though. AFWall+ is one such app. (A side-effect if you've never run the app prior to blocking it can be that it can never download an ad to display.)

  18. In Soviet Russia, TV watches you! by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

    OH, uh, wait....

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  19. Plausibility questionable by zarmanto · · Score: 1

    Okay; so I'm going to have to question the plausibility of this one... not because I don't think that the media moguls and other statistics happy people out there aren't interested in collecting this data on us, but rather, because I'm skeptical of just how fruitful such a venture might be. Consider the scenario being described: The situation is, you're watching TV and playing a game on your phone at the same time. Of course, many of us probably do exactly that now and then -- but when that happens, how often are you doing it alone?

    Personally, when I'm alone watching a movie or show, it's usually streaming to the iPad in my lap... with headphones plugged into it. So this method of consumer intel gathering from a game on my phone would fail entirely, in my scenario -- and I seriously doubt that I'm alone in indulging in this form of private viewing.

    If you're not watching that movie or TV show alone, than there is a reasonable bet that you don't always get your say as to what everyone watches. Targeted ads in that scenario will be decidedly hit-or-miss. And (again, my own personal experience, but probably not all that unique) frequently in my case, I'm specifically playing a game on my phone because I didn't pick the show that's on... and I have no interest in that show at all. The targeted ads could fail rather spectacularly, in this scenario. (Da heck am I seeing stupid football ads in my game, for? Ain't I already sufferin' enough, listening to all these drunk idiots cheering around me??)

    So sure; maybe someone is out there, trying to use this method to gather data on consumers... but I certainly wouldn't want to be them, personally. It sounds to me like a very frustrating way to try to make a living, with continually decreasing returns over the course of time.

    Mind you, if we're talking about a "game" which in reality is attempting to always eavesdrop on you, even when the game itself is not loaded... well, the scenarios I've described would basically have to be immediately tossed by the wayside, because that's a whole separate level of creepy privacy invasion. "He hears you when you're jacking... he knows when you have nightmares... he knows the secrets that you spill when you're talking in your sleep... sooooo you better watch out..." (Shudder!)

    1. Re:Plausibility questionable by Shotgun · · Score: 1

      A) Don't underestimate the level of stupidity. Consider all the times you go to Amazon to purchase product X, then you start getting popup adds for product X. (Which you're not going to buy....BECAUSE YOU JUST FUGGIN BOUGHT IT!!)

      B) Don't underestimate the level of creepy that the targeting firms are willing to stoop to. I worked for a targeting firm for a year. Creepy is the CEO proclaiming his pride at our products sending a car add to a person's cell phone, and then tracking that phone as it entered a dealer ship. This data was used to show that our targeting technology was effective. Creepy is the group they had working on technology to track a cell phone within the confines of a store by triangulating the signals from multiple WiFi hotspots. The goal was to show that we could tell how long a customer would stay near a store display, and if that data would turn into a sell. (Yes. They have your credit card info. All of it. Read the fine print. You agreed that Visa, et.al., are allowed you share your information with "partners".)

      C)Your last paragraph describes it completely, except that there isn't a human listening in and passing judgement on your nocturnal practices. It is a computer monitoring for a pattern. If the pattern is corrupted by multiple sound sources, the computer simply ignores it. When there is a hit, you're profile gets a tick mark, and the algorithm moves on, and they now know that you saw the commercial for AARP.

      D)The companies are wiling to pay ridiculous sums of money to see that their adds turn into actual sells....plus, all this data and technology will be used by the anti-Christ when he controls the world. So, don't expect it to go away.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    2. Re:Plausibility questionable by zarmanto · · Score: 1

      But nothing you've said mitigates my commentary, about false positives corrupting the accuracy of the collected data.

  20. Spyware is included free! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So I've read enough stuff like this to know this is the norm anymore. Other then completely voiding yourself from all internet access you really have little choice but to accept that everything wants to harvest your information these days. Some actually legally let you know up front and some hide it in that tiny EULA that you never ever will read. Some times this is actually very helpful and how virtual assistants work is gathering info on YOU. But its the stuff that tries and hide it that concerns many of us.

  21. Check persmissions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... using a smartphone's microphone.

    That's why I don't have a microphone-enabled browser, or anything that demands a microphone AND internet. Hell, a PC isn't difficult to find: My browsing can wait until then. Contact List and internet is limited mostly to communication apps, nothing else (IE. most games).

    My latest Samsung phone update permanently enabled email. I refuse to use a phone as my primary communications device.

    I don't know which built-in apps they are, but if I disable them, my tablet refuses to boot. It means a lot of factory-installed applets remain active.

  22. I didn't know that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Facebook was a game...

  23. Replace computing with governing... by Immerial · · Score: 1

    and you get our current state in the US. :(