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Roombas Will Soon Build a Wi-Fi Coverage Map While They Clean (techcrunch.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from TechCrunch: The feature is arriving later this month on the iRobot app, making it possible for WiFi-enabled Roombas to create a map of indoor signals. The map exists alongside the existing Clean Map feature, letting users toggle between the two, like they would, say, satellite and standard imagery in Google Maps. The maps themselves won't go into too much detail -- no upload and download speeds like you see on many mobile speed test apps. Instead, the information will show up as decibel readings. Really, it's intended as a handy way of showing off where you might want to toss a range extender, to help get rid of dead spots. All of Roomba's vacuums, save for the lowest-end model, will support the feature. The beta program launches January 23rd and appears to only be available for U.S. users.
If they can spy, they will. They've fully monetized the spying. Nobody seems to be able to "just" make something honest anymore. It's made me pathologically distrust every thing made in the last few years. There must be enough folks who just don't care if they are being used like that so that these scammy corporates can keep the system floating.
This is exactly what I needed for all those times I use my laptop under the couch.
No pooftahs need apply
Only houses like we have in America...big, giant houses full of all sorts of cheap Chinese trash and trinkets, need a feature like this
I would also like a "Find My Cheeseburger" feature, so my roomba can keep track of where I set my cheeseburger down, rather than me wasting time and effort walking from room to room trying to find it.
You are a product for targeted advertising, thought manipulation and surveillance. Why would corporations or governments want anything else?
Yup. China.
I came home the other day and caught my Roomba watching a video of an arduino plugging into a raspberry pi.
Will it account for Cat cause interference?
Dad Describes What Happens When Roomba Meets Dog Poop.
I suppose it can do both though.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
If I am in a corner where things don't work - Cell/WiFi, I know it. Don't need confirmation. .... ...
If that device would make an internal map of it's cleaning thoroughness, i. e. how often it covers an area, that may be useful for trusting this thing but
gadgets, gadgets, sales, sales and - we know what's good for you, you won't need a choice anymore
In particular what kind of web interface you need - mobile or desktop. Sure won't use /. on a mobile because I hate the interface!!!
What is this penchant so many engineers have for adding needless complexity to (what should be) relatively simple, single-purpose devices?
When I read this news, two things immediately come to my mind:
- This will likely turn into another massive violation of people's privacy
- This is now just another thing that can and will go wrong with an already-expensive device, almost certainly shortening its usable lifetime
Followed soon on by a third thought:
- Never buy a Roomba
#DeleteChrome
Indeed, the device gives no clue about upload speeds, since it only report the strength of the received signal. Getting information about the upload channel would require an agent on the Access Point.
Rest assured some fine-print on page 147 of the "license agreement" will allow "selected affiliates" to use the data to "enhance customer product information and shopping experiences" (spam).
Table-ized A.I.
That would useful. Wifiâ(TM)s are so early 2000â(TM)s.
I'm on my second Roomba vacuum ... and I've noticed they keep getting more expensive.
Apparently filling it with useless shit nobody needs is the reason for this.
There is no fucking need for my fucking robot vacuum to be operated via an app, accessing or mapping wifi, or doing anything with internet connectivity.
They might sell more Roombas if they stopped filling them with useless shit.
stop buying roomba then
look at neato for example, better products for less money
as clean as a whistle...
why don't they map cellphone signals instead? that would probably be more useful because I have no problems with my wifi...
This truly sucks. Well, probably more privacy, if not dirt.
I really think that roombas randomly move around rooms hoping to eventually get around all the furniture legs and other assorted obstacles. Eventually, with enough time, they can hope to reach every location. Limited time and insidiously placed chair legs mean they, for some reason miss portions of rooms. If the roomba engineers could focus on getting to ever part of a room (perhaps do something like "map" a room and put in a bigger dust bin) that would be an achievement.
I *know* where my wifi signal is low. Even if I didn't, would it be more useful to walk around with my phone and watch the bars or wait for the vac to hopefully do this for me (only to find it missed half the room).
This one is partly solved with WiFi Calling for some Android phones and iPhones.
Here ISPs are trying to piggyback guest WiFi access points onto the systems
so that this will also work for visitors.
...so you want to inspect at once what is hidden in the dust of my flat, and hack my WiFi AP!
A colleague of mine was describing his Roomba - he said it is quite simply the best way to move the dust around from one location in the apartment to another, than anyone has ever invented. that put me off somewhat.
Roomba, all the way up to the 8xx serie (and Scoobas, btw), still do "random dance around".
They aimlessly go in any random direction, bump into things, etc. eventually, they'll end up covering the whole surface by the end of the program.
At no moment do they have any idea where they are. They just notice the dock when they happen to come by in front of it during the random dance.
(Also they don't have any Wifi. They either have some weird custom proprietary of ZigBee (up to 700 series) to communicate with the non-IR remote and with automatic lightwalls, or have Bluetooth (800 series) to communicate with your smartphone)
In case of cat throw-ups, they'll still enjoy making abstract art in your living room, with the occasional spiral shape thrown in for good looks.
Roomba starting with the 9xx serie (and Braava) having mapping capabilities (older Braava detect a set of IR laser points projected on the ceiling by a special "Northstar" navigation cube. Newer hardware has a webcam, and a DSP that extracts a set of "high contrast points"). The roomba exactly knows where it is at any moment of time and thus can build a map of the place.
Because it has an exact known position and a rough map, it doesn't wander aimlessly, but does precise S lines accross the floor.
(It also covers everything eventually, end up being measurably the same performance as the random work, but looks a little bit better from the outside).
Because of the same, it's also able to directly head for the dock when needed, and can resume cleaning where it left once charged.
It also comes with Wifi for communicating with the smartphone (and optionally the cloud).
In case of cat throw up, it will very meticulously spead it in straight zig-zaging line across your floor, eventually building a nice grid.
So which cat trow up artwork you like (abstract vs meticulous grid) depends on your taste, but your dog will still enjoy licking it all the same.
(More seriously: The reason they can do wifi maps before perfecting the cleaning is simply because the maps come for free for a device that already has mapping technology plus an always on wifi antenna).
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Roomba 900 are mapping robots (unlike their predecessors).
They don't do random dance. They know their exact position in the map and are bit more orderly in their path.
So, instead of a poopocalypse, you're look in forward, for a very meticulous precise and neat poop grid zig-zaging across your floor.
The by-now-4-yo kid will smell like poop when walking to your room all the same.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
If that device would make an internal map of it's cleaning thoroughness, i. e. how often it covers an area, that may be useful for trusting this thing
Actually, that the whole purpose of Roomba 900 series (and Braava) : they are able to know their exact position,
and thus can draw a nice map of where and how often they've been.
(But in the end, they actually aren't that much more efficient that their "random dance" predecessors)
Making a map of wifi signal basically comes free for a device that already automatically maps its surroundings and has an always-on wifi antenna.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Roomba model comparison chart. Go ahead, you don't have to buy anything. Look. What do you see?
The first thing I saw, is that they have multiple models. Gotta admit, I didn't know that.
Check out the bullet points. There are some dubious "features" there, but a couple stand out, almost as negative things where you might think "WTF, some Roombas can't do that?"{...} The multi-room cleaning "feature" shocked me too. Does that mean with the cheaper Roombas, you have to get one for every room? Fuck that.
Well most of the things on this list are exactly that : stupid arbitrary checkbox points, nothing more.
Basically cheaper roomba have smaller batteries than more expensive one (so they can only clean for a shorter amount of time until they need to dock back for charging). But that's about the main difference.
Newer roomba (since the 800) have a bit better roller which might get a little bit less mess, but not by much. But they still sell the olders because they still have them in their warehouse and they are cheap now that they try to get rid of them.
The 900 serie is completely different, in that it uses a camera to track its exact position (think a turned-up optical mouse). So it doesn't randomly dance everywhere until it has covered eventually the whole floor, instead it makes neat orderly grid zig-zags.
But unless you have an extremely weirdly shaped flat, it doesn't matter much, both methods will cover everything eventually, one just looks a tiny bit more oderly from the outside.
That means all robot can clean multiple rooms, the battery run time is the only limiting factor.
(The 900 being the small exception : as it knows it position it can return to dock, charge, and resume cleaning. It can thus clean a surface much larger than what could be done on a single charge. So if you planned to clean a giant aerospatial hangar, you might need one).
etc.
It's about upselling. I think that's 100% of it. But maybe we all have different buttons to press, and what gets me to think "I have to get a Roomba 960 or else there's no point in getting any Roomba at all" is different from what might make you decide to get a 960 or none at all. ;-)
Yup. It's a huge marketing bullshit to make the more expensive look more desirable.
But let's say your spouse wants one, and it's decided: you're getting something. Maybe another stupid fucking bullet point would push your button.
Or you know, maybe like whenever buying any expensive gadget, you read some review, or even better, ask friends who have one for advice.
And then realize that maybe the cheap one actually does the job for you.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
What is this penchant so many engineers have for adding needless complexity to (what should be) relatively simple, single-purpose devices? {...} This is now just another thing that can and will go wrong with an already-expensive device, almost certainly shortening its usable lifetime
This xkcd is actually relevant here.
In this case it's not complex at all.
The 900 series is already making a map of its surrounding as it works (unlike its predecessors, it doesn't random dance. It constantly tracks its exact position using a camera a bit like an upturned mouse).
It already records per-position information from its sensors in this map (mostly related to sensors that detect presence of dirt).
It has an always-on wifi antenna,
so recording the strength of signal as goes around drawing it's map comes for free.
It's not a needless complexity, it's just about adding 1 line of code to their program and suddenly having a new fun feature.
---
the questions lie more upstream :
- was it really worth adding the mapping feature ? it's a complex power-hungry feature, but in the end of the day, unless you have an extremely weirdly shaped flat (are Escher and Dali your architects ?) the "randomly going aimlessly everywhere until everything is eventually covered" of the predecessors works equally well.
The only difference is that now the roomba can stop cleaning, go back straight to the dock to charge, and then resume where it was. So if you want to clean NASA-sized hangars over several charging cycles, it might be worth it...
- was it really worth adding Wifi, so that not only can you use you smartphone as a remote (like the bluetooth enabled 800 series predecessors), or an actual IR or proprietary-ZigBee-like stuff remote like previous models (up to 700), but now thanks to wifi you can also optionnally connect it to the cloud and send it cleaning commands from outside the house ?
I doubt there are that many use cases where this is necessary.
Though on the other hand, the security implication are much lower. (It's a cleaning robot. It doesn't have that much processing power. It's doesn't get an actual video stream from the camera, but a list of high-contrast points from the DSP connected to the cam. There isn't much to be gained from those points if a bug accidentally leaks them online. My metaphore of up-turned mouse is apt as a mouse also doesn't send a video feed to the computer)
This will likely turn into another massive violation of people's privacy
I don't know if this is going to open any much more danger than before :
- the roomba 900 already make a map of the floor.
- the roomba is already connected to your Wifi.
Storing the strengh of the connection as the map is built doesn't give much more risks.
And even the current Wifi getting hacked shouldn't disclose too much stuff.
(Due to limited computing power budget, the Roomba 900 don't actually "see" only get very precise position from their pseudo-mouse).
Followed soon on by a third thought:
- Never buy a Roomba
Actually : never skip doing some research before buying any expensive toy.
In fact :
- Nearly all vacuuming robots, including absolutely all of their competitors, and including irobot's roomba 900 series and braava, all make a map of their surrounding (though not all are internet connected).
Irobot was simply late at the game (because, as noticed above, it actually doesn't bring much in practice. It just looks less messy to an observer).
- All older roomba (up to 800 serie, and their scooba) (also a few other manufacturer who have sublicensed the design) (as well as no-name asian clones of these) don't do any mapping, they just aimlessly wander around until everything is eventually covered. (But as proven by long-exposure photos, it basically gives the same end result). None of them have any internet connection, only 8
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
Gangstalking is not real. Take your meds.
Now that you mention it, I should probably read the EULA for these baby wipes...
My sig can beat up your sig.
So, "my vacuum cleaning is spying on me" is not longer a delusion. I KNEW IT!
They want to be rid of you. You're a cost that they don't want to pay for. The targeted advertising, thought manipulation and surveillance is just a temporary measure until they can afford to start offing people. After all it's much more expensive to constantly surveil, manipulate, beg, and begrudgingly provide for, than it it is to shoot. They still want the money you stole from them, they are just playing the long game to get it back.