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Scientists Change Our Understanding of How Anaesthesia Messes With the Brain (sciencealert.com)
schwit1 shares a report from ScienceAlert: It's crazy to think that we still don't quite understand the mechanism behind one of the most common medical interventions -- general anaesthetic. But researchers in Australia just got a step closer by discovering that one of the most commonly used anesthetic drugs doesn't just put us to sleep; it also disrupts communication between brain cells. The team investigated the drug propofol, a super-popular option for surgeries worldwide. A potent sedative, the drug is thought to put us to sleep through its effect on the GABA neurotransmitter system, the main regulator of our sleep-and-wake cycles in the brain. But anyone who's been "put under" will know that waking up from a general anesthetic feels rather different from your usual morning grogginess. On top of that, some people can experience serious side-effects, so scientists have been trying to figure out what else the drugs might be doing in the brain.
Using live neuron cell samples from rats and fruit flies, the researchers were able to track neurotransmitter activity thanks to a super-resolution microscope, and discovered that propofol messes with a key protein that nerve cells use to communicate with each other. This protein, called syntaxin1A, isn't just found in animal models - people have it, too. And it looks like the anesthetic drug puts the brakes on this protein, making otherwise normal brain cell connections sluggish, at least for a while. The researchers think this disruption could be key to how propofol allows for pain-free surgery to take place - first it knocks us out as a normal sleeping pill would, and then takes things up a notch by disrupting brain connectivity. The research has been published in Cell Reports.
Using live neuron cell samples from rats and fruit flies, the researchers were able to track neurotransmitter activity thanks to a super-resolution microscope, and discovered that propofol messes with a key protein that nerve cells use to communicate with each other. This protein, called syntaxin1A, isn't just found in animal models - people have it, too. And it looks like the anesthetic drug puts the brakes on this protein, making otherwise normal brain cell connections sluggish, at least for a while. The researchers think this disruption could be key to how propofol allows for pain-free surgery to take place - first it knocks us out as a normal sleeping pill would, and then takes things up a notch by disrupting brain connectivity. The research has been published in Cell Reports.
I friend of mine just had a colonoscopy and was laying on his side looking at a pattern on the wall just before being given propofol. He woke up looking at the same pattern and the Doc said everything was normal. He accused the Doc of haven't done anything and was conducting some fraud because he hadn't any sense any lapse in time. Propofol is like that.
I had minor surgery a few years ago and they used propofol as part of the anesthesia.
I woke up feeling amazingly refreshed and relaxed. I can kinda see why Michael Jackson was using propofol every night... until it killed him.
Physicians like to too because of its memory blocking effect. There's less chance of malpractice suits if your patient can't remember anything, even from right before and right after the surgery when they aren't actually unconscious.
"This protein, called syntaxin1A, isn't just found in animal models - people have it, too."
You f-ing idiot, people are animals - capiche? Not demigods, not brains in vat (as much as some geeks would love that). Animals. Meat. We are great apes. Like gorillas and chimps and orangs and so forth. That's what makes life interesting ;-)
Everything is just 'thuper!
If this were true there would be unmistakable markers of experiencing pain... such as elevated heart rate, blood pressure, pupil reflexes, etc.
A small minority remember everything and kept trying to "wake up" and "scream for them to stop".
You may be thinking of cases where people are paralyzed but still conscious - for surgery you may be given separate drugs render you unconscious and immobilize you, and if they get the mix wrong you get the above nightmare.
I now have a bit more of an understanding of why anesthesiology is such an art - not enough of this stuff and you may paralyze someone without knocking them unconscious for a surgery. Too much, and you dangerously dampen the parts of the brainstem that control breathing and cardiac rhythms. I'm curious though as to why consciousness goes before breathing does...if these drugs are given intravenously, wouldn't they diffuse to all parts of the brain equally, and cause just as much consciousness loss as breathing loss?
Dude, I've heard about it, ok? You and your "rational thought" and "testing" can just go jump in a lake.
Wrong thread, buddy.
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Doctor: Now, just count backwards from 100... that's it... 99... 98... 97...
Nerd: Wow, that's too fucking long, doc. Let's try it my way: for (ctr=100; ctr>0; ctr--) echo ctr; [falls unconscious]
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It's crazy to think that we still don't quite understand the mechanism behind one of the most common medical interventions -- general anaesthetic
But don't dare suggest that there is anything we don't understand about climate science. In that case, the science is fully settled and there is no sense questioning our understanding.
Since we don't fully understand how they work, the only rational course of action is to deny that anesthetics exist.
I doubt the anesthesia has the same brain damaging effects
love is just extroverted narcissism
It does happen, but it's exceedingly rare. Paralytics don't block autonomic responses - people who are in pain will still exhibit increased heart rate and blood pressure.
They give anaesthesia to paraplegics even though they can't feel anything below the severed nerve location. That's because paraplegics will go into shock from the pain, even though they can't actually feel the pain. Like if a paraplegic gets a broken leg. So the pain is an actual phenomenon that anaesthesia somehow blocks.
I am just curious about how much human activity really has to do with climate change..
No, you're not.
I had a major spinal surgery about 10 years ago after falling of a cliff and smashing a vertibrae. The last thing I remember from the operation was really paying attention when they gave me an injection on our way into the operating room, and that's it. Woke up feeling pretty good for having had my spine messed with for over 4 hours. It still bugs me that I can't put my finger on the experience; I have no idea if it was really that instant or if I simply don't remember.
Robin Williams had a great blurb about Propofol. I've had it a few times myself. It's true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
You mean the pain is still there and causes autonomic responses even though the paraplegic can't consciously feel it?
j'ai découvert une démonstration vraiment admirable (de ce théorème général) que cette si
I've been put under on that stuff a handful of times. Each time it was the same time travel experience. The first time I woke up from having a tendon fixed and I asked the nurse who suddenly appeared at my side as I was being wheeled down to recovery "What the heck was that? Am I ready for surgery?" "You're done." I lift up my arm and marvel at that half-cast on my wrist.
That stuff is amazing. I was allowed to push the plunger on the syringe once during a surgery a few years later. The staff said I got one halfway into the first line of The Star Spangled Banner before going silent.
In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king--and the two-eyed man is a heretic.
Can we do without super childish language at least here on Slashdot? Super pretty please.
Too short a period of time. Even if it wasn't, there are so many variables that happen during childbirth that focusing in on just one and assuming it's the cause doesn't make sense.
Sort of like the people who start exercising more, eating less, getting a good night's sleep, and start taking some special vitamin, who then proclaim that it's vitamin that is making them lose weight.
I almost died in April 2017 of septic shock. During that time, medical staff assumed I was unconscious and unable to recollect a single thing. I had 4 surgeries and I was on a ventilator for many days and I was on enough drugs to kill an elephant. I remembered everything. Including some VERY personal conversations from certain staff members. It was all so vivid. I can't discuss most of it thanks to an ongoing malpractice suit against the hospital that caused the issue to begin with...however. Never assume your loved one doesn't hear you. They do. They hear you. They also hear the medical staff talking about their so called 'day' as they turn you, change various 'things', etc.'
Yeah no that wouldn't be used... Unlike some conspiracy theorists think people in general have empathy, in fact the lack of empathy is seen as a severe personality defect. It is also understood that stress response can have severe effects in an individual.
So if this was true most anesthesiologists would refuse to use it at least without other drugs. Most others would refuse to take part of the operation.
And as others point out the indications of the extreme stress would be visible during the operation - and the anesthesiologist _will_ monitor the patient for these indications. It's part of their job after all.
Those typical markers won't necessarily occur when neuromuscular blockade (e.g., "sux") is used along with anesthesia.
I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
Not to mention that it's speculating about a general relationship based upon a single anecdote. Even if it's intuitively sensible, which this is not, it's a fallacy of reasoning. An all too common one.
I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
It seems to me, quite obviously, that a large part of it is natural variation. But of course the rent-seekers in academia can't raise research funds on that basis.
I'm pretty sure that if you could do a proper academic study to disprove AGW/climate change you'd get a Nobel Prize and about a zillion dollars from the oil companies.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
It makes sense to me that anesthetics do more than just "put you to sleep".
We use them to humanely perform painful procedures of course. If all they did was to activate unconsciousness, why wouldn't the pain wake you up? Even if you assume the anesthetic is actively and continuously promoting unconsciousness, which is almost certainly true.
Pain is an ancient survival mechanism. Even primitive organisms have pain reflexes. I doubt that unconsciousness, which by definition is a high level function concerning the frontal cortex, could completely override a low level survival mechanism built into the oldest parts of our brains.
Put it this way. If you were sound asleep and your bed caught fire, would you wake up or not? You'd wake up. You might not survive the experience but you'd wake up.