Slashdot Mirror
Amazon Opens 'Surveillance-Powered, No-Checkout Convenience Store' (geekwire.com)
An anonymous reader quotes GeekWire:
The first Amazon Go grocery and convenience store will open to the public Monday in Seattle -- letting any person with an Amazon account, the Amazon Go app and a willingness to give up more of their personal privacy than usual simply grab anything they want and walk out, without going through a checkout line... After shoppers check in by scanning their unique QR code, overhead cameras work with weight sensors in the shelves to precisely track which items they pick up and take with them. When they leave, they just leave. Amazon Go's systems automatically debit their accounts for the items they take, sending the receipt to the app. In my first test of Amazon Go this past week, my elapsed time in the store was exactly 23 seconds -- from scanning the QR code at the entrance to exiting with my chosen item...
The company says the tracking is precise enough to distinguish between multiple people standing side-by-side at a shelf, detecting which one picked up a yogurt or cupcake, for example, and which one was merely browsing. The system also knows when people pick up items and put them back, ensuring that Amazon doesn't dock anyone's account for milk or chips when they simply wanted to read the label. The idea is to "push the boundaries of computer vision and machine learning" to create an "effortless experience for customers," said Dilip Kumar, Amazon Go vice president of technology, after taking GeekWire through the store this past week... Apart from the kitchen staff preparing fresh food at the back, we saw only two workers in the 1,800-square-foot Amazon Go store during our visit: one at the beer and wine section to check IDs, and another just inside the entrance to greet customers.
TechCrunch calls it "Amazon's surveillance-powered no-checkout convenience store," adding "the system is made up of dozens and dozens of camera units mounted to the ceiling, covering and recovering every square inch of the store from multiple angles."
The Seattle Times reports that the store "was also criticized by grocery-store workers' unions, which feared an effort to automate the work done by cashiers, the second-most-common job in the U.S."
The company says the tracking is precise enough to distinguish between multiple people standing side-by-side at a shelf, detecting which one picked up a yogurt or cupcake, for example, and which one was merely browsing. The system also knows when people pick up items and put them back, ensuring that Amazon doesn't dock anyone's account for milk or chips when they simply wanted to read the label. The idea is to "push the boundaries of computer vision and machine learning" to create an "effortless experience for customers," said Dilip Kumar, Amazon Go vice president of technology, after taking GeekWire through the store this past week... Apart from the kitchen staff preparing fresh food at the back, we saw only two workers in the 1,800-square-foot Amazon Go store during our visit: one at the beer and wine section to check IDs, and another just inside the entrance to greet customers.
TechCrunch calls it "Amazon's surveillance-powered no-checkout convenience store," adding "the system is made up of dozens and dozens of camera units mounted to the ceiling, covering and recovering every square inch of the store from multiple angles."
The Seattle Times reports that the store "was also criticized by grocery-store workers' unions, which feared an effort to automate the work done by cashiers, the second-most-common job in the U.S."
this is very clever here is how it works: At the end of each day each store's NN is mutated in relationship with the delta$ at the end of each week, the NN with the highest delta$ are culled out and replaced by a cross breed of the NNs with the lowers delta$
You can be sure they've calculated this into their plans, and will be reviewing their camera footage and sending you a bill. Remember, you've identified yourself just to get into the store.
"Well kids, you tried your best, and you failed. The lesson is, never try." -Homer Simpson
like self check out just wait people will try to work out ways to get free stuff at this store.
https://www.fierceretail.com/o...
You seem to think this situation was avoidable. It was not. The higher minimum wage only made it happen faster.
#DeleteFacebook
The political economy is broken: innovation that delivers broad productivity and standard-of-living increases is "bad" because it puts people out of work. This phenomenon is not new. For example, some metro transit systems rolled out in the 70's were designed for total automation, but were forced to employ operators by unions and/or public outcry.
There are two simple, direct fixes that should be on the table. One is a basic income, the other a jobs guarantee.
.:Semper Absurda:.
From the TFA:
"The company says the tracking is precise enough to distinguish between multiple people standing side-by-side at a shelf, detecting which one picked up a yogurt or cupcake, for example, and which one was merely browsing. "
I would take that as a challenge! What can I get a away with, how can I obscure, or fool the "AI", what are the limitations and assumptions, can I beat the design engineers? Very interesting problem!
If I would be tempted to do that - who hasn't shoplifted once in 47 years - what would that indicate for the average shoplifting rate?
A couple decades ago when I was in middle school banks in our town installed a few ATMs and issued mag stripe cards to replace the paper wallet size account number slips. My dad and many others around me said it would be the end of banking as a profession and I should not go anywhere near the industry.
That end of employment fear was unfounded as is this one.
'nuf said.
I bought some things recently using a similar idea. At a Dallas hospital the vending machines have been replaced by what roughly like standard refrigerated display cases you'd see holding drinks at any convenience store. Chips and such were in a similar-looking case, just not refrigerated.
The customer taps their card or phone to open the case, then takes whatever they want. It detects if you take an item and then put it back. Especially if you wanted more than one item, it was more convenient than a standard vending machine that requires you to choose item A11 by pressing buttons, then wait for wire to turn, hoping the bag of pretzels will drop as intended.
Because there were no visible sensors or other mechanisms, and it was new to me, it was slightly disconcerting the first time, but interesting and convenient.
as so often happens, I pick something up, walk around for a while, then put it down somewhere else, picking something up from there? If their system can't handle that - with 100% reliability - it's not ready for the real world. Because that happens all the time in real retail stores.
Get a skill and earn some money.
OK: "Alexa, how many bags of dried beans weigh precisely the same as a 750ml bottle of Courvoisier?"
... the tracking is precise enough to distinguish between multiple people ... overhead cameras work with weight sensors in the shelves to precisely track which items they pick up ... The system also knows when people pick up items and put them back, ...
Do not shop for condoms at the Amazon Go store.
On the other hand... With Alexa snooping on you at home as well, perhaps she can help ensure you buy the right size - next time.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
My robot army looks forward to that day.
In the Amazon store, one could do a "raiders of the lost ark", grab something off the shelf and quickly replace it with something worthless of equal weight, like Indy replacing the golden idol with a bag of sand. I'm hoping Amazon will add a rolling stone ball to crush such shoplifters as well.
Our supermarket now has self checkout as well, and we get checked just as frequently and in the same way. What surprises me is the perfunctory manner of the check: they never count items or check stuff at the bottom of the bag. So bury the stuff you want to steal or grab 10 beers and ring up only 8. Then again, I am sure that these supermarkets have very detailed figures on theft, and I am guessing that they feel that the increase (if any) in shoplifting introduced by self scanners is outweighed by the advantages these scanners offer.
I love self checkout by the way. Mostly because there's no taking out and (re)bagging of groceries anymore; everything gets scanned and goes straight into the bag, which goes straight into the boot. Checkout is a 5 second process.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
> criticized by grocery-store workers' unions, which feared an effort to automate the work done by cashiers, the second-most-common job in the U.S.
This is an excellent example of where the "robots are taking our jobs" mantra is misguided and targeted at the wrong change. If the concern is really about cashiers' work, then the most significant replacement has already been implemented many years ago: self-checkout kiosks. In fact, the ones in the US have already become old fashioned and bulky compared to the slimmer versions which are popping up all over Europe.
What's interesting about the self-checkout boot, is that is does not require any new technology which was not already in use by a human cashier: The barcode-scanner, coin slot, card terminal, touch screen are all technologies from the 80s / 90s or earlier. The change was mainly in process and labor; now the customer has to do the job the cashier used to do.
Amazon's implementation uses much more advanced technology, but the effect on required labor is the same. So should vision-based technology be banned and resisted, while self-checkout boots are fine? Or should we go back to anno 1920, when a shop-keeper would hand you every item from behind the counter? Or maybe Amazon need to pay a "robot-tax" for the workers they displaced? In which case, should we go by the 1990s level when there were maybe hundred in a large Wal-mart store, or the 1920 style, where there were only one or two employees but a long line of customers.
Well, when society gets to that point we will be in a new civil war.
You really are a coward!
hoping the bag of pretzels will drop as intended
It's the 21st century, we're sending robots to Mars and probes to asteroids, cancer has gone from "death sentence" to "usually well treatable", and paper jams in printers have become exceedingly rare, but the solution to this problem still eludes us.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Can you patent a scaled up version of the hotel mini bar?
will dwarf anything you could possibly steal before getting caught. As for privacy concerns, it's like the number of the beast. You won't have a choice. You'll at least have to buy food.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
you could pay them in just enough rice porridge to make it through one more miserable day and the machines would still win out; if only because shopping at places where the staff can barely survive is just plain unpleasant. After all, out of sight, out of mind.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
It is going to be exceptionally easy when they find the bag of sand to just press a button and view the video of "last time the weight of this item fluctuated" and see who you were. You have to authenticate to gain access to the store.
Idiots wave their hands and imagine video-game quality theft schemes, these tweakers will get arrested after the first time they manage to steal somebody's identity and make it into the store.
You have to be basically illiterate to think that a current "self checkout line" is using the same technology as this Amazon store. The amazon store uses surveillance technology to watch you. A "self checkout line" uses an employee to stand around and "watch" a large number of customers, and experienced thieves can simply pay attention to what that employee is doing. The cameras are for live viewing and evidence, they're not using a system of auditing what you bought afterwards. With the Amazon store they know who everyone is, so if there is missing stock they can go back and actually figure out who removed it from the shelf, and then just cross-reference if you were charged. You bring home 10 beers, think you only got charged for 8 because you only wrote down an 8, but then it gets corrected later and if you're literally trying to hide it under other stuff you might even get arrested; or worse, banned from the store.
- Just put the alcohol into a mini refrigerated walk-in room that's behind a locked door. The door only opens for those who are over the drinking age... there, one employee position resolved. - create a greeting robot (screen with a human face) with preprogrammed messages and potentially preprogrammed responses to questions... there, the other employee position resolved.
The only thing that bothers me about this is the personal identification in order to enter the store. Then again, stores like Costco have for years required you to submit your identity and made you pay for a uniquely-identifying card in order to use their store. It doesn't look like Amazon will charge you. And even I am willing to let a clerk scan my uniquely-identifying Safeway card at checkout so I can get 80 cents off seedless grapes or whatever. What's different about Amazon's store is that there isn't a staff of sad underpaid cashiers. I also won't miss the infernally slow checkout aisles that try to get me interested in buying magazines about Jennifer's latest battle with Angelina over Brad. Doesn't anyone else think the grocery store has always been a fairly shitty place? I see no need to protect it from extinction, just like I don't long for the pre-ATM days when people had to wait in line and talk to a bank teller in order to withdraw cash from their accounts.
That's because they didn't make a movie based on the book Player Piano by Kurt Vonnegut... yet!
Meanwhile my local convenience store (bodega to you, thanks) actually makes food which is good. Try that, Norby the Mixed Up Amazonbot.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Some dollar stores (Dollarama in Quebec) have now replaced most of their cashiers with automatic cashiers, and those stores are really not in the B2B market. Between online shopping and machines, there won't be many retail employees 15 years from now.
Worse, self-driving cars will probably kill most of the remaining retail stores anyway. People will order their milk and bread online, a robot in a warehouse will put it in the delivery car, and the customer will get it at his door. Walmart killed a lot of retail stores, Amazon will kill what's left.
Shame on those people for not wanting to work for free! Automation could have been avoided if they would just submit to slavery!
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
The idea is to "push the boundaries of computer vision and machine learning" to create an "effortless experience for customers"...
Customers? Oh, you mean all the workers you put in the unemployment line with this "vision" of the future? Those customers?
They say automation is unavoidable. We'll see if the concept of Eat the Rich is too.
OK: "Alexa, how many bags of dried beans weigh precisely the same as a 750ml bottle of Courvoisier?"
Buy one first, go home, weigh it, prepare bean bag, return for another. BOGOF.
When society gets to that point, Universal Basic Income will be implemented to avoid civil war.
We have record-setting levels of employment (here in California the unemployment level is the 40 years of the current tracking methodology), and we're getting rid of the horrible jobs no sane person wants to do. How anybody can think that's not great news is beyond me. I was originally against the minimum wage increase because I thought it was unnecessarily high and would increase unemployment and inflation, but it has clearly proved a success: here we are somehow with the poor getting more pay, near zero unemployment, and near zero inflation.
This space intentionally left blank
FTFA :-
In my first test of Amazon Go this past week, my elapsed time in the store was exactly 23 seconds
WTF did he buy? Sometimes it takes me 5 minutes to find just one particular item in my supermarket. Even though I use the same place every week, they are always moving stuff around according to season, or it seems at the whim of the manager.
UB quality of life. We need to give all people the real right to food and shelter and Internet.
I am afraid giving just money will create Mansa problem
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
We are about to test it too at the chain were I work.
It will be a regular store that will be open 24/7 only at night there will be no on site personnel. It will only be open to people who have membership/owner cards. Since it is a cooperation, you pay a small amount to become a member/owner, so it is not like one of those "membership" cards you get at the register.
L'Idiot
The business morons always make this type of prediction./quote>
No, no it's all the Socialists fault, because:
Their lack of understanding about the true nature of economics means that their policies will always be pushed too far, and will eventually destroy the economy that is hosting these socialists.
It must be true because some idiot A/C believes all the far right propaganda.
The price for these capabilities of dropping well faster than half every three years.
At best it's a three year speed up in bringing these capabilities.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
If I had to bet, this store that's harder to get into without an ID won't be the one criminals focus on.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
You'd rather have low skill workers competing with bots in a race to the bottom to see who can do it cheaper? Do you seriously not think that as this technology advanced that the wages on offer wouldn't have started dropping? People will continue say "but a low paying job is better than no job" when in fact that's not true. Ultra-low wages distort employment figures and lead to people dropping off the radar of social security. They can come begging and say they don't have enough to live on but when the records show that they are working 40 hours a week they get dismissed out of hand. You create a whole class of workers that are effectively slaves, living below the poverty line while still slogging their guts out working a full time job. But sure ... "socialism is bad, it will destroy all of society".
Due to massive thefts.
I picture a thief sitting standing in front of a store shelf with a bag of sand in one hand, and a bag of cookies in the other.
I never said that this is what needs to happen, but as you say with greed being the major factor, we both know this is what will happen.
#DeleteFacebook
Increasing wages, decreasing automation costs and the companies love of money made it possible. Since greed is eternal, the only variables at play are the wages and the automation costs.
#DeleteFacebook
Until then, they should respond "above and beyond the call of duty" when customers report failures
Methinks there will be LOTS of failures
If they take the typical corporate attitude, and ignore or argue with the customers, instead of taking a detailed bug report..they will fuck themselves
Not really. I've identified myself as Bill, because he keeps forgetting his phone on his desk.
#DeleteFacebook
The simple fact is that increasing the minimum wage is a huge boon to businesses like restaurants and small local stores.
A business like a national brand "dollar store" is going to automate first, because they're the biggest and have the lowest potential losses. The maximum amount you can steal from them is much lower, they don't need it to work as well, and they're big. So they can adopt it first.
Are customers going to pay to go to a restaurant that is just a vending machine with tables next to it? Those have existed for decades and they don't attract many customers who would otherwise buy a restaurant entree.
What is a retail employee at a dollar store even adding to the transaction? I mean, seriously, please don't have a conversation, there isn't time, you'll hold up the line.
Businesses where the employee is adding value, such as restaurants, will not only survive but grow. Fast food might turn into vending robots. Maybe convenience stores, too.
Sorry, skills such as running a cash register are no longer needed. Please proceed to the starvation line to your left.
Exactly. It is well known that automation causes poverty. Economists call this "the productivity catastrophe". That is why America, Europe, and Japan are mired in misery, while countries that have wisely avoided the "efficiency trap" such as Somalia, Ethiopia, and Afghanistan, are doing so well.
If I had an uncle like that, I'd give him a box of Alpha-Bits at Christmas and a can of Alpha-getti for his birthday.
#DeleteFacebook
Slavery is expensive. Have to feed, house, give medical care and such to the slaves, not to mention the hassle of stopping them from running away. Much cheaper to pay them a pittance and bitch that they're poor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
You seem to think this situation was avoidable. It was not. The higher minimum wage only made it happen faster.
Absolutely... and speed of change is exactly what we don't want. It takes time for people to adapt. Automation is going to displace a lot of people, so it's important that the changeover happen as slowly as possible, to minimize the pain. High minimum wages are a bad idea.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
How are the customers responding?
Here in BC, my grocery store introduced some self-checkouts. After they'd been in a bit, usage seems to have dropped off to close to zero. Now they've upgraded them and they don't even take cash anymore, which doesn't seem like a good idea at Dollarama.
What my grocery store has done, which seems successful, is have all tellers open at the busy times and advertise the fact. It's nice being able to go through the lineup quick, unlike the last time I went to a Dollarama with its one cashier.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Yes, it was going to happen. Why? Because having to check out is a bad user experience.
I do not want to wait in line at the store. I also do not want to wait for the waitress to bring my check, take my card, and bring back my check?
Does this mean that people must go unemployed? Not really the staff can be used to keep the shelves stocked, the store clean, and help customers find products.
As to complaints that the minimum wage is not enough to raise a family? You are right it is not and was never meant to be. You are supposed to make minimum wage when you are in school or if you have no skills. It is supposed to be enough for one person to survive on or to supplement a spouses income. Frankly, the service that I get from minimum wage workers is already so bad that I do not see the point in increasing it.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
1. They are not working for free.
2. Raising the wage increases the motivation to automate.
3. Why all the fuss? Do you us ATMs and online banking? Do you know how many tellers you have put out of work?
When automation actually provides a better user experience it is going to happen.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Publix is the same except they never did have any self service isles. Publix is a great store and has been for decades. You walk up to any employee and ask them where something is and more often than not they stop what they are doing and walk you right to it.
When you go in if any cashers are not checking someone out they are standing right at the front of the checkout isle looking for people to check out.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Not going to happen and if it does guess what?
It will be hoards of followers being exploited by some charismatic leader. The would end up being worse off than before.
See Lenin, Stalin, Mao, and Hitler for reference.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
You're claiming that companies can't afford to pay a minimum wage for their workers in their current position, but somehow there is a job out there for everyone that they just need to apply for where those same companies will pay them more. You understand that's not possible, right? Someone has to end up at the bottom of the pile, that's just unavoidable. That you get to make the fairly absurd claim that this is a "choice" they make is nice for you, I guess it helps you feel better about the 40 million or so people in the US living below an acceptable standard. You clearly have made the "choice" to not be in that position while they've all made the "choice" to live in poverty. Apart from your astonishing ignorance about what keeps people in that position, it's ultimately a logical fallacy to claim that there are jobs out there for all of them to be paid more. It just can't be done.
From what I've seen, most customers seem to accept them. In the case of the Dollarama I go from time to time, I'd say customers don't have much of a choice anyway. It's either waiting in line for the one remaining cashier (there were four cashiers before), or going to one of the eight automatic cashiers. Of course, the machines Dollarama installed accept cash, including coins.
If I look at the Maxi (a grocery store) near where I live, the technology was slow to be adopted by customers, but it's now been two years and they are now a significant number of people who got used to them. Maxi also advertises an "all tellers open" time, but as soon as there is some waiting, which happens even when all tellers are open, people with few items go to the automatic cashiers if they are available.
I'd say the store where automatic cashiers are the least popular is Walmart. The machines they installed don't accept cash and, because of the lack of space, they are not practical for anyone with more than a few items.
For stores where people buy a lot of items, I'm guessing the real change will be when the technology is integrated directly into the shopping carts.
If there was no automation, then I would agree with you. I would not say "huge boon", but I would agree increasing the minimum wage would benefit retail.
But automation has become so cheap that it is now an option that can be applied to almost every minimum wage job, including jobs in restaurants. Waiters won't be replaced, but automation will hit kitchen employees.
If people who will lose their minimum wage jobs because of automation can find another one, then maybe restaurants will see a bit of an increase in revenue (certainly not a "huge boon"), but that's a very big if. To me, the most probable consequence of raising the minimum wage will be an increase in automation, which will result in an increase in unemployment, which will result in a decrease of revenue for retail and restaurants.
I believe the only thing that could create a significant increase in restaurants is Universal Basic Income. So instead of increasing the minimum wage, let's create a Universal Basic Income of $100 per month.
Yes, lack of options will push the new tech.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Most people are generally terrible at dealing with / anticipating non-linear change. Those who can are often able to remain far ahead of the curve. But they're relatively rare.
And this change... this change is unlike any other that preceded it. That's why you see so many deniers claiming this wave of automation is essentially just like previous "no more buggywhips" events.
They simply can't open their minds far enough to see that the light in the tunnel is an oncoming, accelerating, train. It's going to hit them with very little warning, despite you standing by the tracks and screaming "Get off, GET OFF! It's a frigging TRAIN!"
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Automation is fine, I like that. However, I want to be able to walk into a store, buy something with cash, and walk out, anonymously. Nobody has the right to analyze my life history of hygiene and drinking habits.
"But I happened to bring in a block that weighs the same as this item I'm too broke to get. Decisions decisions."
You know it doesn't work, Dr. Jones.
Beware the giant boulder.
So, what is your solution.. Let me guess, slavery? It is too easy to claim that the minimum wage is "too high" when it is not you who are getting the minimum wage.
Religion: The greatest weapon of mass destruction of all time
bring back your empty packages, replace with new, filled ones on the shelf.
will the AI decide - oh, they put it back, no charge?
prepare to find stores full of empty packages!
and what about those 2 people still working there? checking an id and saying hello to people? those are the 2 things they couldn't figure out how to replace?
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
Ok, say someone picks up a can of beer, then a can of Coke, then puts the can of Coke back on the beer shelf (assume same weight of full cans). Now:
1. Does the customer pay Coke prices for beer?
2. Are there robots which will then retrieve the Coke and put it back on the correct shelf?
Perhaps we can get together and have a law that will allow people to work for free. The Social Labor Act of Voluntary Employment Law.
We could start with the groups that are hit hardest with unemployment and with the highest crime rates,
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
But I happened to bring in a block that weighs the same as this item I'm too broke to get. Decisions decisions.
A true hacker would know how much each product weighs and leave cheap items where the expensive items were.
No sig today...
...and this will be the downfall of this system.
As soon as people walk in and see a bag of rice where the new Xbox is supposed to be then it's game over for Amazon Go.
The only way it can work is if they restrict it to cheap stuff that nobody would invest much effort to steal, eg. bags of rice.
No sig today...
500.00 a month is peanuts. How about adopting the Social Security Disability standard of 1170.00 per month? At least you could have a roof over your head.
I would just add that as the history teaches us automation was never a problem and has never put people out of work (in a long term), to the contrary it created branches of industry never conceived before, where even more people found employment, not to mention lowering goods prices, so that more people were able to afford more stuff making life quality of ordinary people better. Every time there is a breakthrough the affected industry is shouting that it is the end of the world, yet years later people cannot even imagine living without it, think about blacksmiths, ice delivery service, and on and on.
In this case I just wander if the savings will reflect the prices of goods in such stores. On the other hand my concern about this technology is quite different, there is no privacy and companies would have too much information about citizens, which should be balanced by proper regulation protecting customers from corporate abuse.
Dollar stores can't get employees around here. You can see how they treat the ones they have around here.
Cheap storage VM.
Have you ever had someone else decide what you eat each day? Try a food bank someday. Money gives people choice.
Cheap storage VM.
That depends on whose pain you are worried about. Business owners or the poor who's wages have been depressed (stolen) for decades.
Cheap storage VM.
Minimum wage workers are like under-clocked GPU's. Pay people what they are worth and you get better.
Cheap storage VM.
$8 an hour is almost as bad as free, at that rate you cant afford many basics like proper healthcare. They are slave wage, non-maintenance wages. Most of these people only survive because they are loaded up with welfare programs so basically that low wage employee you subsidize anyway with tax money. You could never dig yourself out of the hole your in because you cant accumulate any savings to use as leverage.
As for automation, what we need to do is reduce the barriers to retraining and help train people for new jobs through apprenticeship rather than college. This allows people to have satisfaction of earning money right away and would allow people to earn while they learn. Only 10% of the population needs to go to college. Colleges have 70% drop out rates in many cases, so its not a pathway to success, a pathway to failure for most people. College is becoming outdated because you can learn on your own for very low cost because information has become so widely available. Certificates like A+ are another possibility for self learning. So a combination of self learning, and apprenticeships.
Automation will allow us to raise the minimum wage drastically and with the vastly greater productivity, what we can do is simply reduce the work week to spread the remaining work among more people. This means people work less for the same or more money. People will still make money, they will just work a few hours a week and will have far more free time.
Not only that but it's a QR code. I like using QR codes around my house but even a bad quality photo of a QR code is enough to re-create it and use someone else's QR code then.
Does the QR code stay the same each time or is a new one generated each visit?
Psh, just hack the app that identifies you.
No doubt, retailers make a calculated risk: do the savings in cashier wages exceed the losses from shoplifting? It's likely that they find it cost effective even with moderate increase in shoplifting.
Store clerking is boring. Nobody really wants to do that or many other kinds of dull repetitive jobs. Good riddance. This class of dull jobs can't be automated fast enough in my opinion.
I love self checkout by the way. Mostly because there's no taking out and (re)bagging of groceries anymore; everything gets scanned and goes straight into the bag, which goes straight into the boot. Checkout is a 5 second process.
I'm curious where you shop. Stores near me with self checkout require me to scan each item, and then place them into the bagging area. There is a scale in the bagging area, so the machine yells at you if you place something unexpectedly heavy or light there. And if you want to bring your own bags, there's a problem: If you place them on the bagging area, you must call an attendant to OK the extra weight. Or, you must keep your bags on the floor, and after you scan each item, you must tell the computer that you wish to skip bagging, so you can place the item into your bag.
I wonder how often the machinery will think you took something when you didn't. Perhaps the crowd was too big, and it wasn't obvious which customer took the item. I assume most people won't check the receipt while walking out to verify every item listed is actually in their cart. And if they do catch a mistake, what then? How do you prove you don't have something? What if you catch it the mistake the next day?
Those pushing so hard for $15 minimum wage don't seem to realize this, but they've been instrumental in introducing economic distortions that won't just make full automation more economically attractive, but that will make full automation economically mandatory for any business that wants to survive. Socialists are always their own worst enemy. Their lack of understanding about the true nature of economics means that their policies will always be pushed too far, and will eventually destroy the economy that is hosting these socialists.
That doesn't make sense. This kind of automation and grocery store hasn't reduced the amount that our country produces. If anything it's made it produce more efficiently. There's more wealth. The problem remains, as always, how that wealth should be apportioned. Some people (maybe including you) believe the way to apportion that wealth is to have a bunch of poor people work degrading jobs that aren't quite enough for them to get by, and they also must depend upon taxpayer-funded handouts for essentials.
Is that because you think it's morally the right way to apportion society's wealth? Or because you think there exists no other better way?
Do you us ATMs and online banking? Do you know how many tellers you have put out of work?
None.
If you try this, a large stone boulder will immediately roll out of the wall and crush you.
This in in Albert Heijn stores in the Netherlands. It's scan-as-you-go, using a portable scanner you pick up at the entrance, or a reasonably convenient app on your smart phone. Scan each item as you put it in your cart or bag.
At checkout, the app produces a bar code which you scan at the terminal, then you pay and walk out using a bar code on your receipt to open a turnstyle. About 1 time in 10 the terminal will lock and a clerk will walk over to check your groceries. If you buy any alcohol, the terminal locks as well, and the clerk unlocks it after a few seconds (they'll card younger patrons). It's a pretty well streamlined process, even having your purchases checked takes only a few seconds.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
I was thinking along the same lines. I pick up 10 pounds of potatoes, then go and get 8 pounds of booze. I put the potatoes on the booze shelf, then walk out. Do I get 8 pounds of booze for the price of 2 pounds of potatoes?
Even the *best* surveillance systems have blind spots and replacing/spoofing/jamming RFID is trivial.
Or it never figured in to the decision for self checkout, since they were going to maximize surveillance and automate it anyway.
I'd be interested in seeing the actual numbers. But judging from my local police blotter, they have been awfully busy there since the new self serve checkouts were installed at the big box store.
But automation has become so cheap that it is now an option that can be applied to almost every minimum wage job, including jobs in restaurants.
You don't understand the technology, and you don't understand the conversation. You don't understand why there are waiters.
Machines that can vend food are not a new type of automation.
I specifically said waiters will not get replaced. What I said is that people working in the kitchen, the one you don't see, are the ones who will be replaced.
That depends on whose pain you are worried about. Business owners or the poor who's wages have been depressed (stolen) for decades.
Which is worse, low wages or no job? Unless you think you're going to somehow force businesses to employ people, or somehow stop automation from being built, that's the choice.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Yeah, what's your point? That some people want poor people in prison like conditions? That some people see only the profit they could make delivering an approved meal?
Cheap storage VM.
No, there are three choices:
1> Robust employment with automation
Jobs that pay well enough people can afford to buy things. Automation that benefits owners, employees and consumers.
2> anemic employment with low wages and automation,
Employees can't afford to spend money and automation becomes cheaper and more desirable due to the quality of work paid for and delivered. A climate where capital owners capture an increasing share of improvements.
3> no automation with increasing authoritarian government and low employment
Keep jobs plentiful and keep people desperate. Things only get better for the ruling class and we eventually have a increased terrorism and the US slides into a despotic stye of government. Automation is undesirable because then you don't get to lord your wealth over someone.
Cheap storage VM.
No, there are three choices: 1> Robust employment with automation Jobs that pay well enough people can afford to buy things. Automation that benefits owners, employees and consumers.
How do you make this happen?
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
The short answer is "Taxes". The long answer is "Regulations to ensure worker safety, a reasonable minimum wage, and a robust safety net that includes healthcare. This way nobody is shut out of the economy and we can all prosper."
Cheap storage VM.
The short answer is "Taxes". The long answer is "Regulations to ensure worker safety, a reasonable minimum wage, and a robust safety net that includes healthcare. This way nobody is shut out of the economy and we can all prosper."
But how do you force employers to continue employing people when it's cheaper to use automation?
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
You don't, you make sure they pay into the tax structure so their is a safety net for employees.
I don't by into the uselessness of workers. I think automation will increase available work as long as we prevent a race to the bottom due to worker desperation.
Cheap storage VM.
You don't, you make sure they pay into the tax structure so their is a safety net for employees.
Good luck with that. Raising the minimum wage is relatively easy, politically. A significant expansion of the welfare state, not so much.
Let me reify my original statement a bit: High minimum wages without also establishing a comprehensive safety net is a bad idea. And, actually, if you establish a comprehensive safety net then minimum wages become unnecessary and can be abolished entirely. Employers will just be unable to find anyone to work for low wages because relying on the safety net will be a better choice. Or, if the safety net is income-indexed, or unrelated to income (basic income), then people might be willing to accept low wages because they're incremental on top of an already-livable safety net.
Bottom line: High minimum wages are a bad idea.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
Unfortunately, it's our only option currently. No matter how many of us see a better way.
Cheap storage VM.
Unfortunately, it's our only option currently. No matter how many of us see a better way.
But it's actually a worse way. Raising minimum wages damages the economic prospects of lower-income citizens in the present economic and technological context. It's not enough to have good intentions, you also have to do things that help rather than hurt.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
There is no evidence for this. A business that raises wages is at a disadvantage to other businesses. If all are forced to raise wages, it's an even playing field. There is no evidence that raising minimum wage damages employment and mounting evidence that it helps.
Cheap storage VM.
The business morons always make this type of prediction.
Locally, they said that increasing the minimum wage would destroy the restaurant industry, but in reality poor people spend a higher percent of their income eating out, and the dollars spent at restaurants increased!
It sounds like them being poor has less to do with what they're paid and more to do with how they manage their money. These are the people that supposedly can't afford housing, healthcare, and transportation, but they somehow have enough to eat out more often than higher income earners?