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Uber CEO Urges 'Portable Benefits' for Gig Economy Workers (thehill.com)
An anonymous reader quotes The Hill:
Uber's chief executive is calling for Washington state to develop a "portable benefits system" to give contract workers in the so-called gig economy access to health care and retirement planning accounts. Uber CEO Dara Khosrowshahi signed onto a letter with Service Employees International Union (SEIU) 775 President David Rolf and Seattle investor and workers rights advocate Nick Hanauer urging the state to take action.
Uber does not hire drivers as actual employees meaning the company does not offer them benefits beyond compensation. Khosrowshahi said having the state change laws so that contract workers can carry benefits between jobs would be preferable to Uber hiring them as full employees.
Uber does not hire drivers as actual employees meaning the company does not offer them benefits beyond compensation. Khosrowshahi said having the state change laws so that contract workers can carry benefits between jobs would be preferable to Uber hiring them as full employees.
call them part times jobs, thatâ(TM)s what they are
whatâ(TM)s with millenials trying to rename everything
Wasn't that the whole point of obama care. Economic mobility even when you have a pre-existing condition.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
This might be a great startup idea. Create a company that provides benefits with several standard packages. Companies could buy into a package for their employees. If an employee leaves, he could continue to pay his own portion of the package (optionally changing to a cheaper or more expensive package), but unlike Cobra, it would be the full benefits and could continue indefinitely. If starting a new job with another company that uses the same benefits company, there would be no changes in benefits.
I could see this mostly being a mix of small businesses and contract employees, but it could also be larger companies and government agencies if the system worked well enough.
This seems half-baked. The fundamental problem we have is that very universal and critical services (healthcare and retirement income) are tied to an ephemeral association (employment). Having a universal health care system, and a universal social-security system, would fix these problems without creating more bureaucracy than we already have.
Its already happening without government intervention. For several years I've been seeing contracts where a small company's healthcare package is that one's paycheck is your pay plus your payment to an exchanged based healthcare policy.
This is about the worst thing to come out of Uber yet. Rather than support a single payer system (that they're afraid they might have to chip in for) they want 'portable' benefits. e.g. completely paid for by the (underpaid) drivers. The best part is this makes it sound like he's doing it for the little guy when all he's really doing is trying to divert attention away from the fact that his company broke one of the fundamental social contracts in America (to wit: "Work for us and we'll take care of your healthcare).
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Sure, but then you pay your fair share of corporate taxes to subsidize.
The rest of the world used that system for 100 years or so, it seems to work.
If they pod them more the employees / contractors can buy their own insurance and save for their own retirements.
even though it benefits the shitbirds of Uber.
The taxies were superior to Uber's in the american society.
Uber is the rival of the taxies and does illegal competence (e.g, it's probable that Uber does not pay licenses that were paying the taxies).
inmho, Uber = black taxi, Taxi is yellow taxi.
SHOCKING.
Fucking Ameriplebs dont even have universal basic care. LOL!
But the insurance company will cut you off when you get cancer, causing you to lose all of your life's savings paying for treatment and then bank will take your home so you can die penniless in the street. America, what a cuntry!
It's the only thing a void of a generation with no talent, ambition, or desire to bring meaningful change can do to ferl good about themselves.
Most nations have it except for the USA.
Uber's chief executive is calling for Washington state to develop a "portable benefits system" to give contract workers in the so-called gig economy access to health care and retirement planning accounts.
Anybody can already sign up for an IRA or Roth on their own. What exactly is this CEO asking for?
give contract workers in the so-called gig economy access to health care and retirement planning accounts
How about you just give them the money and let them select and pay for their own benefits? While we're on the subject, let's do that for all the salaried workers too.
There's no need (from first principles) for my employer to be involved with my personal health or finances in any way apart from paying me. Just give me the money you would have spent on my behalf and allow me to secure those services myself.
Yes, I realize there is presently a discount for group insurance (or rather a penalty for individual policies), but that's only because it's expected that people will obtain their insurance through their company. If everybody arranged their personal health insurance personally, no such penalty/discount would exist.
So.. Dara Khosrowshahi probably has a fantastic benefits package, but those who "work for him" cant have one?
...so that contract workers can carry benefits between jobs would be preferable to Uber hiring them as full employees.
Uber would find it preferable that contract workers die in a fire rather than have to hire them as full employees.
The idea of "benefits" being attached to your job is a holdover from the wage & price controls enacted during World War II. Unable to increase wages, factories offered non-cash benefits like health care to attract skilled workers, and later the courts ruled that these health benefits were not taxable income. In the most extreme example, a shipyard started a medical clinic to provide medical care for shipyard workers and their families. Now the shipyard is long gone, but the medical clinic has grown into its own hospital chain; Kaiser.
Abolish all that! Allow fraternal organizations to offer medical insurance. Let everybody pay for their own insurance, and pensions, and other "fringe benefits", and you eliminate the problem of "pre-existing conditions". A young adult would choose his/her own fraternal organization such as the Kiwanis or Knights of Columbus or Masons or Odd Fellows. You could go from employer to employer, and NEVER lose your health insurance.
because if it existed they'd have to pitch in tax dollars to pay for it. If it were they could jump on Bernie Sander's Medicare for All bandwagon. What they want is a system where their drivers pay for the benefits Of course, we have that now; only the drivers aren't paid well enough to afford health care on their own. This is a dodge. A distraction meant to keep single payer from happening. Nothing more.
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They have had many, many opportunities to do things the right way from the start. Many of us referred to the 'sharing/gig economy' as the exploitation economy. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing and not doing. Now that the shareholders have their money, who gives a shit, right? Too little, far, far too late. I fully expect Uber to morph into a traditional company, in Silicon Valley parlace, 'in the next five years'. Pathetic and reprehensible.
Uber does not hire drivers as actual employees...
Although Uber hires drivers as actual employees, it refuses to recognise them as such. In many countries and some states this is illegal.
There, I fixed that for you.
Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
If Uber is honest about this, they should accept to pay for contractor unemployment insurance. And of course the more they would let unemployed, the most expensive for them it would be.
The US concept that health insurance is tied to your employer is simultaneously anti-capitalistic and anti-socialist. In this system, nobody wins. We don't do it with anything else in our society: Not your car insurance, homeowners insurance, flood insurance, liability insurance, internet, telephone, food, electricity, or anything else. "Portable" insurance isn't some crazy idea, it just means "treat insurance like every other thing in society."
I'm a self employed individual and I don't get the hoopla about Uber and other "gig" work. Nobody was offering me benefits back when I did computer repair work or even worked for a retailer doing sales or repair work. Why is it that Uber drivers are somehow special? The solution to this problem is obvious. If the "gig" don't pay well enough don't take it. I currently purchase health insurance and always have of my own desire. When you are a contract worker you are suppose to charge a premium such that you can purchase these things for yourself. The reality is not all contract workers are worth the same. If your not worth $15 / hr then your not going to get it nor will you get free benefits regardless of what the law says. Uber will just lower the pay to compensate for hiring employees. And before you go into "but the minimum wage is $X" all you are doing by increasing the minimum wage is increasing the rate of pay for everyone which increases prices which puts these minimum wage workers having an effective income of less than they potentially had before because now you've f*cked with the efficiency of a free market economy. There is a reason socialist economies have been failing for nearly a 100 years or otherwise reverted haphazardly in part to free market capitalism to drive economic improvement.
Evidence in point. I have employees purchasing houses and living comfortably off $12 / hr in New Hampshire. You can't do that in any of these big government countries/states/cities/towns where the government is stealing 70%+ of your wealth through hidden taxes on your employer, through your landlord/property taxes, vehicles, import taxes, sales taxes, etc. In silicon valley you couldn't even afford to eat on this income. So rather than complain MOVE. Move somewhere that isn't so big government authoritarian and heavy handed.
"Khosrowshahi said having the state change laws so that contract workers can carry benefits between jobs would be preferable to Uber hiring them as full employees."
I wonder whose preference this is. Perhaps the contract employees would rather be full-time employees.
I mean, you can login and be working then take the rest of the day off after say 10 minutes?
befor ACA the ER was the only place for some both poor and others who where sick that they went to the only place that takes them and gives medical care with out checking if you can pay.
This determination is important because for all practical purposes, a dollar received by a contractor is worth less than a dollar received by an employee. Payroll tax rates (Social Security and Medicare) are 12.4% and 2.9% respectively (there's a ceiling of $128,400 for social security, but it doesn't affect most people).
The net result is that a dollar paid to a contractor is worth 7.65% less than a dollar paid to an employee, because the contractor has to pay an extra 7.65% of it to the IRS as what would otherwise be the employer's share of these payroll taxes. This is one of the big mistakes people make when they first start working for themselves. They used to be paid $70k as an employee with $10k worth of benefits. The company offers to pay them $85k as a contractor and they jump at it. Only to discover later that they now owe an extra $6500 in payroll taxes which means their net take-home pay is less than before, plus the company can now fire them at any time without termination benefits. Meanwhile the company pats themselves on the back for turning an employee who used to cost them $86.5k ($70k salary, $10k benefits, $6.5k employer's share of payroll taxes) into a $85k contractor.
What Uber is asking for is basically a loosening up of the IRS classification guidelines, so contractors can be given benefits. That would allow them to exploit the fact that most people don't grok that contractor pay is worth 7.65% less than employee pay, and they mistakenly equate $50k as an employee with $50k as a contractor. So by doing this, Uber can appear to be paying their contractors the same as employees and even offering them benefits, when in reality they'd be paying them less than if they just bit the bullet and made them an employee.
The situation wouldn't have arisen if the government had just been up-front and deducted all of the payroll taxes from the employee's paycheck, instead of trying to be cute and hide some of it by having the employer pay for it. But that's water under the bridge now, and the system we have today is the system we're stuck with. And one of the consequences of that system is that a dollar received by a contractor is worth less than a dollar received by an employee.
They're the problem of the US Congress, and the American taxpayers.
Our problem is figuring out algorithms to shield as much money as possible from taxes, so our directors and senior executives can make 9 or 10 figures USD.
Increase dues to cover it, and negotiate increased hourly rates to offset the employer not paying the insurance. Let them manage the pension too. I'm sure they would be happy to take that on as well.
If you've ever wondered what a blatant attempt to privatise profits while socialising costs looks like, look no further.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
Make PERSONAL health care expenses at ANY level fully deductible, just like they are for businesses. Right now, tax laws make it beneficial for workers to have the company pay for health insurance, and that not only screws independent/part-time workers, but it also breaks the entire concept of the consumer actually paying for what they are consuming (health care).
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Contractors my ass
Fuck that. Make NO health care expenses deductible.
Make the standard deduction $50k and get rid of all other deductions and paperwork. Tax labor and investment income at the same rate.
"Let everybody pay for their own insurance, and pensions, and other "fringe benefits", and you eliminate the problem of "pre-existing conditions""
no you don't eliminate this with private insurance. They have no reason to keep people insured which have such pre existing problem. The only way to eliminate this is to have a fix sum of money to be paid by everybody thus the healthy covering the sick: in other word UHC. Whether you want it governemental, or private due to the american allergy to some words, is up to you. But at least governemental UHC is a proven conept. Private HC without U, is a broken concept as the US prove times and times again.
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This is why pension and healthcare subscriptions should be handled by a third-party: So the employer sticks to its core functions and has less impact on the investments of its employees. Other countries have already done this.
An employer can easily demand that every employee have a pension and a healthcare provider, and pay subscriptions as needed. The biggest hurdle has been employers.
My cynical mind reads this as "everyone is responsible for demanding a salary that includes pension and healthcare subscriptions". It would be nice if selfishness worked but this ignores an important contaminant: The leverage of employers.
... the CEO of Uber wants to nationalize the overheads and expenses of having Gig workers [and get private tax-payers to pay for it], but wants to privatize the profits.
My, what a complete surprise...
Why should healthcare be deductible at all? Just more handouts to the insurance companies.
If you want your fellow taxpayers to pay for your healthcare, just vote for the party that will do that, oh nevermind I see the problem now.
IRS Publishes this Independent Contractor (Self-Employed) or Employee?
Or you can file an SS-8 form and have IRS make the determination.
"If, after reviewing the three categories of evidence, it is still unclear whether a worker is an employee or an independent contractor, Form SS-8, Determination of Worker Status for Purposes of Federal Employment Taxes and Income Tax Withholding (PDF) can be filed with the IRS."
How about meaningful Social Security, and Universal Healthcare.
But it is a proven fact that no developed country has ever been able to sustain that. Oh wait, most have, except the U.S.
Iâ(TM)d prefer to go from consulting gig to consulting gig and would find it way more interesting and engaging than my day to day sys admin work but need steady benefits. If I could do that portably Iâ(TM)d love it. And Iâ(TM)m far from a 3 minimum wage job worker.
Letâ(TM)s fix it by deregulation, not more regulation. When I switch jobs there is no impact on my life insurances, homeowners insurance, and car insurance. I simply buy these on my own. But health and disability insurance are only deductible if your employer provides them which is just dumb. Employers started providing healthcare during WW2 to attract and retain employees when the government froze wages.
Stupid... if you get a 1099, then you already have access to a 401K, SEP, SIMPLE, IRA, etc.... you just need to setup the account and start funding it from the money you get from Uber or Lyft or whatever gig you're working....the government allows you to deduct those expeses... you might want to educate yourself to the ways of business and income/expenses and profit!
We don't need another stupid government program to take money from the economy to pay govt workers (benefits, office space, salary, retirement, vacation, healthcare, etc, etc, etc.) all so they can "manage" money taken from your 1099 pay so that you can have a pittance of a government funded retirement or healtcare or whatever stupid program the ignorant masses wants the government to provide.
Freedom from goverment programs is the answer, not another wasteful, over bureacratized government program!
Peace out!
No, what this scum bag is really admitting is that his company doesn't pay livable wages, isn't about to, and wants tax payers to come to the rescue.
Driving someone you don't know, to a place you're not going, for money, is NOT a ride share, that is the definition of a taxi. Uber is skimming money off the backs of the lowest workers and trying to call it profit. A taxi service costs more because it's a real business, with real benefits, that PAYS it employees real wages.
Stop using uber/lyft and use a real taxi. Support workers.
Well, that idea smells exactly like a union. First, you pay union dues, then you pay for your insurance, an after taxes, hopefully there is some left for you. Since that won't really work, Drivers will have to up the rate costs, to lets say $63.52 per mile, then of course Uber dies and the Govt. bails out the contractors. Really cool idea there folks!
The only thing worse than having my health benefits tied to a job I could be fired from, would be to have them tied to a fraternal organization that might release me from being a member because my religious or political beliefs vary from theirs.
That anyone should ever have to participate in the economy, know how the game works and how to play it. Good heavens, what would we do if people were proactive and entrepreneurial instead of "i can has job gimme"?
I was only 27 when my tiny startup rose up to $500k/year gross income. It's what happens when freelancers are competent.
Some Uber drivers I have stumbled upon, started their own business and have already grown it to 2 or 3 cars.