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A Look at How Indian Women Have Persevered Through Several Obstacles To Contribute to the Open Source Community (factordaily.com)
A fascinating story of how Indian women have persevered through various roadblocks, including cultural, to actively contribute to the open source community. An excerpt from the story: As Vaishali Thakker, a 23-year old open source programmer looked over the hall filled with around 200 people, she didn't know how to react to what she had just heard. Thakker was one of the five women on the stage at PyCon India 2017, a conference on the use of the Python programming language, in New Delhi. The topic of the discussion was "Women in open source." As the women started discussing the open source projects they had been working on, the challenges and so on, someone from the audience got up and drew the attention of the gathering to the wi-fi hotspots in the hall. They were named "Shut the fk up" and "Feminism sucks." "It was right on our faces," remembers Thakker. For their part, the organisers were upset and even warned the audience. But the event had no code of conduct for anyone to really penalise or expel the culprits.
"It's disheartening when you're talking about the problem, someone is actually giving a proof that it (gender bias) indeed is a problem. In a way, I found it funny, because how stupid can you be to give the proof that the problem actually exists," says Thakker. And how. It's just been three years in her coding career but she is familiar with the high wall that gender stereotyping puts up in the world of software scripting. More so in her chosen field of coding. Thakker is among a small -- but fast-growing -- set of women coders from India shaping the future of several open source platforms globally including the Linux kernel, the core software program behind the world's biggest eponymous open source software.
"It's disheartening when you're talking about the problem, someone is actually giving a proof that it (gender bias) indeed is a problem. In a way, I found it funny, because how stupid can you be to give the proof that the problem actually exists," says Thakker. And how. It's just been three years in her coding career but she is familiar with the high wall that gender stereotyping puts up in the world of software scripting. More so in her chosen field of coding. Thakker is among a small -- but fast-growing -- set of women coders from India shaping the future of several open source platforms globally including the Linux kernel, the core software program behind the world's biggest eponymous open source software.
This one's got everything: Indians, women, feminism, Python, gender quotas. Oh boy am I sure looking forward to all the constructive discussions that will take place here!
Do all open source developers have the maturity of two year-olds? It would appear so from the wifi hijinks at the conference.
That is all.
and....I don't care.
Can they program? What kewl things did they hack?
This is not a dating site. This is a tech conference. Get with the program.
But I really couldn't give two shits what's between someone's legs when reading their code. The only bit that really matters is how good the code is.
Even if 10 or 20% of men are the culprits, I can see how that presents a significant barrier to all women wanting to enter the field. However, that's still "some men." When people claim the problem is "men," then I'd rather just tune out. The fact is, I don't behave like that, I'd speak out against that behavior if I saw it, but I just don't see it in the environments I frequent. Somehow I still get lumped in as part of the problem because I'm male. Whatever... I stopped listening when I was supposed to fix a problem I have zero control over.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
I'm pretty certain every movement, ism, belief, and so on, is or will eventually become, plagued with extremists. And everyone else who do not consider themselves part of that group, will judge that group by the actions and words of those extremists. Worse still, is that those who are judging the group by the actions of the group's extremists, are a group in of themselves, and are thus prone to having extremist members within them (eg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...).
I'm god, but it's a bit of a drag really...
...is to stop talking about gender and "gendered" issues as if they are not just created by this polarizing talk of gender all the time. Gender doesn't matter. Only code does. No one online knows you're a man, woman, brown, red, purple, with 1 leg or a missing eye until you bring it up.
Let's face it, "Women in Open Source" as a talk is like a magnet to anyone looking to troll you and just get a rise out of you. Same as bringing in any other physical carateristics you have. People just perceive it as you trying to get attention, and the people who are more apt at giving you attention won't give you the positive kind.
If you send a patch to a Open source projet with your e-mail being vthakker@something.com, no one can even tell if you're a man or woman unless you bring it up.
"Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
Or it's just like the commenters who see someone reporting harassment and immediately bleat "that can't possibly be true" based on a few examples of people making false claims.
I recall being in a car (back in india) where the wife of my friend, who I had mostly respected, a staunch feminist, was in a discussion with my friend, her spouse. A short while into the discussion, see grabbed an apply my friend was eating and threw it out the window, "focus on me when I am talking" she said. I thought it was odd but hey, I will just shut up, nonetheless it stuck in my head. Few years later, they did end up having a divorce when this incident just popped in my thoughts. The whole process was bit of a feminist from hell. A bunch of feminist organizations backed her up initially, until they realized she was abusing the rights they had fought for every women, as an example, she falsely accused the family of this individual of demanding dowry. A severe crime in India, this is the only crime where legally, "you are guilty and must prove your innocence". It finally all settled after she has extorted a lot of dough from her in-laws and husband.
This lady did a lot of harm to feminism. Only silver lining, when the dust settled she was not welcomed at a lot of these organizations, nonetheless all those who witnessed had a mental stereotype of a feminist. It took few years for me to evaluate that my sole example was actually a bad person and this is not what feminism stands for.
The internal name of systemd was "project shitbrain".
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Well it's no wonder. Python is a racist language what with it's dependence on white space.
Have gnu, will travel.
... this is infantilism and/or bullying.
Given, gender/sex is the vector by which it is put in effect, but stuff like this shouldn't even be discussed. Find the hotpotters, kick them out, no reimbursement, if they raise a stink, call the police and press charges.
This isn't generic sexism, it's beyond that IMHO. I also think it's a problem if we slap the term sexism on to *everything*, like a 55 year old billionaire grabbing the crotch of a woman. It dilutes the term and causes it to lose any useful meaning.
My 2 cents.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Feminism is a range of political movements, ideologies, and social movements that share a common goal: to define, establish, and achieve political, economic, personal, and social equality of sexes. This includes seeking to establish educational and professional opportunities for women that are equal to those for men.
#DeleteFacebook
Sexism so prevalent that they had to outlaw revealing the gender of a baby before birth to avoid termination of female babies
Women getting burned alive, splashed with acid or murdered outright because their dowries were not big enough
Rape at the drop of the hat, many times gang rapes
Lower healthcare standards
Etc.
And they overcame all of this and achieved the ultimate goal...contributing to the Open Source Movement.
LOL!
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
Feminism is cancer.
In certain cases it might be, just like chauvinism and any other standpoint taken to the extreme. In the end we should be treating all people with the same respect we would want for ourselves, no matter their biological, religious or cultural differences. Those who seek to make a negative example of someone's differences is not a very respectable person.
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Yes and the Democratic Republic of North Korea is democratic. If feminism was about "equality of the sexes" then mission accomplished across the board. The movement and ideology is irrelevant in the western world. There is no end goal for feminism because it isn't about equality in opportunity or legality. It's about women supremacy and getting back at men for history which is why we see the BBC males taking pay cuts for no reason other than the long debunked gender pay gap myth and virtue signaling despite reports stating that there was no discrimination. Feminism is about equal outcomes which is contrary to meritocracy and why we see the bar lowered in many areas to get more women in. Feminism is about treating women different because being in the same room as men is oppressive. Lowering the bar, vengeful practices, and segregation is not equality!
Even you assume there are not educational and professional opportunities for women equal to men yet I haven't seen a single male only scholarship for STEM ( I bet you can't find one either) nor have I seen any male affirmative action in STEM. The favoritism is toward women so the institution can check their little quota box and feel smug about it and we see that with younger women making more and are preferred over men for STEM faculty. I have seen more opportunity for women these days than men. What are you talking about other than the outcomes you don't like?
Men and women are different so personal and social "equality" is code for "we want more because equality of outcome using bad measures". Using bad measures (gender pay gap) to promote bad policy (vindictive practices) and treating women different (lower standard and segregation) will never achieve "equality" in any true sense of the word. Forcing equal outcomes is the antithesis of a free society.
I'm not saying it's all good and sexism is over, but this is being characterized as flamebait by a lot of comments, and it repeatedly contains things like:
“Biases are there because at many places some people feel women aren’t good enough to code. But I haven’t encountered any such bias because the Linux kernel community is really good,” she adds.
And this woman stating directly that having a baby was a bigger barrier than any of her male counterparts, but her modern office in India was very accommodating:
“Sometimes I feel, when they (women) are in this field they are more aggressive because they want to prove that they are as good as their male counterparts,” she says, adding she has not faced gender bias at work yet.
“I don’t have any complaints. I feel girls are not short on talent, it’s just that they have to stick around. Sometimes it becomes difficult if you have a maternity leave, you’re disconnected for six months from everything and you cannot complain about it because the child needs you,” she says.
How did she cope? “I took my child to office with me, and my office supported that,” Deshpande-Dalal says.
Those parts quoted in the article certainly exist and are important, but you know, RTFA.
I agree but it just seems that 'feminism' has been soiled by too many extremists that it has lost all sense pragmatism or direction. There are places that absolutely need feminism and if western feminism tried to help those countries and those women I think many more would respect the movement and ideology. Instead of addressing real issues in the world we get diatribes about video games and movies.
Feminism may not be cancer but it is infected with a malignancy that, IMO, is terminal to any redeeming quality.
"the manner of the posturing used against it."
Yes because nothing screams religion like unquestioning loyalty and subservience... How dare I have an opinion outside of the Holy Doctrine of Feminist Faith.
In the time before Men and Patriarchy it was good. The evilness of Masculinity has turned Sister against Sister! But fear not and harken oh Ally! The Holy Matriarchy has a plan for you, oh dear emasculated Ally. Dare not question the Holy Doctrine of Feminist Faith! Exorcise any criticism or skepticism you see on these intertubes. Strengthen your faith by listening and believing unconditionally. Reeeeeee before the Goddess Queen of the Holy Matriarchy so that you will be saved from Patriarchy and it's vile Penis' used to deceive Women. In the name of the Mother. The Daughter. And Pink Vagina Hats. Wamen.
*grabs junk* hmmmmm.
I am a woman. You are marginalizing my experiences and humanity. You are toxic and are creating a toxic environment. You are the problem when you so easily malign the experiences people like me face. You are creating obstacles and limiting my opportunity to exist in this space. You should feel ashamed of yourself. Be the good ally and listen and believe because you have said enough to demonstrate that you hate all women.
There was nothing inadvertent about voicing my thoughts on modern western feminism and the toxicity it has become. I would rather label myself a MRA trying to get more male shelters that would actually help people than a feminist using bad science to attack meritocracy that will harm people. (both have toxic members but one has an objective legal goals to accomplish. I like mission accomplished banners.)
So there are loud mouths. Big deal? Why should an entire movement, and a movement, I might add that by and large has seen women gain a great deal since the days when they were chattel with few political or legal rights independent of their fathers, brothers or husbands. So what if the odd kook gets on the nightly news? Is it fair to damn any movement by the cranks, because if it is, well, there's this minority of American conservatism that's awfully loud and hold ridiculous positions. Shall I be free to define all Republicans by Roy Moore, for instance?
Perhaps you should pay less attention to the attention whores in any movement, and look at what the majority of the movement is about. Unless your only interest is in damning the majority by the wingnuttery of a fringe.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
You missed my point. "There are too many loud mouths that the movement has lost all sense of pragmatism and direction".
I am not going to address your whataboutism or false equivalency.
Perhaps you should pay less attention to the attention whores in any movement, and look at what the majority of the movement is about.
Because what the majority of the movement is about, in my opinion, has been overtaken by the loud mouths that has derided any noble cause it may have had. How many times do I have to hear about the gender pay gap before I recognize that the movement has been overtaken by loud mouth idiots devoid of principle because they bastardize statistics and science for their own tribal agenda and personal advancement?
Do you believe that the sexes should be treated equally, that women should have the same political, legal, social and economic rights as men?
Yes or no will do.
Yes
Do you believe that the sexes should have 50% equal representation in every political, legal, social, economic sector of activity ?
Yes or no answer will do.
"Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
The entire movement isn't rendered obsolete because several vocal sub-communities are taking extreme views. Any small community basically becomes more extreme in its views over time if it isn't exposed to reality. The problem is systemic in various causes ranging from feminism to atheism, various theisms (fundamental Christianity/Islam/Judaism/etc.), charitable organisations, environment-conscious groups, animal welfare (PETA), etc. This doesn't render any of the causes lost, it simply means they need to fight harder to drown out the voices of those more extreme sects.
You should never yield a movement because extreme people come in every so often. You also may want to reconsider automatic judgement of someone based on a particular view (such as a perceived gender pay gap) as in their case they might be right, even if they might be wrongly attempting to generalise.
Does the law apply equally to men and women? Yes. Check legal.
AHA CHECKMATE! You're wrong.
Men receive on average longer sentences, up to 63% longer sentences and are twice as likely to get convicted (sauce : https://www.law.umich.edu/newsandinfo/features/Pages/starr_gender_disparities.aspx).
Male privilege is real!
"Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM