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Daylight Saving Time Isn't Worth It, European Parliament Members Say (arstechnica.com)
AmiMoJo shares a report from Ars Technica: Earlier this week, the European Parliament voted 384 to 153 to review whether Daylight Saving Time is actually worth it. Although the resolution it voted on was non-binding, the majority reflected a growing dissatisfaction with a system that has been used by the U.S., Canada, most of Europe, and regions in Asia, Africa, and South America for decades. The resolution asked the European Commission to review the costs and benefits of Daylight Saving Time. If the EU were to abolish Daylight Saving Time, it would need approval of the majority of EU member states and EU Parliament members.
"We think that there's no need to change the clocks," Ireland Member of European Parliament (MEP) Sean Kelly said to Deutsche Welle. "It came in during World War One, it was supposed to be for energy savings -- the indications are that there are very few energy savings, if any -- and there are an awful lot of disadvantages to both human beings and animals that make it outdated at this point."
"We think that there's no need to change the clocks," Ireland Member of European Parliament (MEP) Sean Kelly said to Deutsche Welle. "It came in during World War One, it was supposed to be for energy savings -- the indications are that there are very few energy savings, if any -- and there are an awful lot of disadvantages to both human beings and animals that make it outdated at this point."
> being robbed of 2 hours of potential daylight after work and school.
What the fuck are you talking about?
DST moves the clock forward by 1 hour. That means it stays light longer.
The exact opposite of what you are saying.
There were actually two resolutions on Daylight Saving Time. The other was about abolishing DST and was rejected: https://www.timeanddate.com/ne...
Deer, as an example, get used to roads being safe to cross until a certain point in the morning. All well and good, but suddenly that point shifts by an entire hour without any warning that the deer can perceive. Result: More animals hit by traffic.
Most animals live by their circadian rhythm. Wake up at a certain time, eat at a certain time, sleep at a certain time. For farm animals like cows and pigs, this fits into their daily routine as livestock. But suddenly everything shifts by an hour, resulting in anything ranging from confusion to stress. And for what? So the stores turn on their all-night LEDs at the same time they always do?
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Balderdash, the Parliament represents the views of the people of Europe and none who hold democracy dear would fail to implement its decisions.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
65N here and I haven't met a single person who thinks DST is a good idea, even when the clocks go forward.
Just as the autumn proper ends and it turns really dark, grey and nasty for November-season, you lose an hour of daylight in the evening along with a good chunk of your will to live. By the time you get to December the sun might bother to drag its arse over the horizon by 10:30, but it'll never get above the trees and it'll be back in bed by 2:30. The kids are going to school in the dark and coming home in the dark, whether we faff about with the clock or not.
Here, DST is a swift kick in the nuts when you need it the least. Much further north and there's no daylight to save.
Because they too have to set their alarm clocks to wake up an hour earlier, but as they don't have jobs to go to suffer from higher levels of depression as a result and so are more likely to commit suicide.
This is why you see more roadkill around the time the clocks change.
Well, yes, but without "summer time" we wouldn't have "winter time". And in the summer we have so much daylight we have to black it out if we want any sleep, so (until we can bottle the stuff) why would we want to save it then?
Why do we have to piss around with the clocks at all?
No, these are the EU parliament. This is why it's non binding. The EU didn't feel the need to give the democratically elected assembly any actual power.
> those people are appointed appointed by whom ?
Russian hackers, of course.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
... can we take another look at the definition of the working week?
I'm pretty sure that most of the folks who vote in the EU parliament don't work five days a week or more. So how about we declare that Friday is actually part of a 3-day weekend and that the working week is only 4 days long?
Given the amount of time I'm asked to spend in pointless meetings each week, if I could schedule those to run back-to-back on a Friday I could achieve this with at worst zero drop in productivity...
I'd rather we did this than worry about the time of day...
Nb. don't believe this happens often? See the example from one random distribution:
https://koji.fedoraproject.org...
Look into the changelog – how often governments change their minds and how few days are left to react.
:wq
So, who were the candidates for president? How many votes did the second place get? (The answer, is zero, because the president is appointed in a really stupid way that in no way reflects democracy).
It's a shame the EU wasn't structured in such a way as to keep them accountable. Who are they directly accountable to? Parliament as a whole, the cabinet, or the head of government? If I object to a decision by my commissioner, who do I contact to make this objection known? The fact that I live in a country where the government doesn't represent the people doesn't excuse the EU from being crap here.
I have two objections to the EU Parliament - firstly, STV is not mandatory. Secondly, it has no ability to initiate legislation. The only elected body of a nominally democratic institution only has the power to rubber stamp, or reject legislation.
Oh piss off with your "educate yourself" drivel. Some people disagree with you. This does not mean they're not educated. It means they haven't bought in to the idea that the EU is the bastion of democracy. It's not, and pretending it is because the power is vested in a group appointed by a group selected from a body elected by the people in an election that is not necessarily representative, does not make it so.
The problem I have with getting rid of it is that I very, very strongly prefer the summer time - but the "original" time is winter time. I want DST for the whole of the year.
Exactly, and that's why I strongly prefer DST for the whole year. Without DST it would be dark an hour sooner in the summer. I don't want that. Where I live (Portugal) people stay up long and get up late. Our time zone is wrong.
I've always thought that the use of time zones was a bit of an anachronism. Pick a longitude; the international date line is as good a place as any, and that sets the time and date for everyone on the planet.
So you end up going to work at 22:00 and return at 08:00 and it's all in the daylight, so what , these are just numbers. Travel planning will be simplified and so will arranging meetings where people join on-line from different time zones.
Maybe you should learn how the EU works. The EU executive proposes laws and directives and the EU parliament approves or disapproves them. So yes they certainly do have actual power.
You're an idiot if you think that standard work times could be changed as easily as an arbitrary time zone convention.
The whole idea of DST and changing time zones is that it's way easier to change the hands on the clock - and arbitrary but binding convention - than actually changing ten thousands of time tables, work schedules, bus and metro routes, etc.
And having fixed standard work times is just as idiotic as the idea of daylight saving...
The majority of us don't work in fields or require natural daylight to do our jobs anymore.
Many of us have to deal with clients or suppliers in other countries who don't work at the same time anyway.
Many businesses are intentionally open outside of regular working hours because that's the only time many customers can go there (retail, restaurants etc).
Travel congestion is a serious problem in terms of time wasted, the unpleasantness of the congestion and environmental impact. You end up with transport infrastructure thats massively overcrowded for a few hours a day, and mostly idle for the rest of the day/night.
Many businesses operate 24/7.
Many call centers are located far away from the locations they serve (eg lots of indian call centers serve customers in the us and uk despite a huge timezone difference).
Just because something has always been done a certain way, doesn't mean that is still the best way.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Direct democracy is even more dangerous. It just takes a well-crafted series of facebook posts to convince millions they're in danger, and their votes can be swayed.
Everyone hates it, everyone thinks it has adverse effects, and yet we still have it. Is someone making a buck off it? Is the Little League lobby running the country? Do the lizardmen who've infiltrated all the world's governments like it?
What's the deal here?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Removing the standard 9-5 working hours would be a far more sensible thing to do. Having everyone trying to get to and from work at the same time causes peak loads on roads and public transport and often results in lots of stationary cars sitting and polluting but not moving anywhere. In the UK, it's particularly stupid synchronisation because most shops use it as well and so ensure that they're open only when people with jobs can't go to them because they're at work.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I believe the message to which you are replying would answer the question that you have asked, ie one proposes the other disposes in this case.
Rgds
Damon
http://m.earth.org.uk/
Set your alarm clock an hour earlier then
As a morning person myself, I just do things earlier in the day then others tend to do. Chances are your job will be slightly accommodating, allowing you get in an hour early and leave an hour early. As this normally expands the coverage in the company.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Being rude louder doesn't improve your point.
As it happens the cemetery has a sensible opening schedule within sight of my desk right now that varies by month to acknowledge that it's not good to have people wandering around in there after dark. It's not that hard.
Another example: our local schools already coordinate on opening hours and holidays to avoid creating problems for parents. Adjusting the hours to something sensible and safe by (half-)term probably would not be hard.
9-5 never made that much sense and doesn't even acknowledge that humans are diurnal and live at different latitudes with different sub hours and climates!
Let's stop working to an entirely illogical rigid timetable, messing around with the clock to try and fudge it, and, given that most of us have smart assistants with calendars, etc, go with something that better reflects reality, ASAP.
Birching seemed like a good idea at the time, but seems less so now that most societies have given it up. DST will be much the same in the rear-view mirror.
But whatever, calling the poster above an idiot does not advance anything.
Rgds
Damon
http://m.earth.org.uk/
The vast majority of us are represented by people we didn't vote for, yet somehow when it comes to the EU it's an indicator that the system is undemocratic.
One of my MEPs is Nigel Farage (the MEP with the 2nd worse attendance record) - I didn't vote for him.
I didn't vote for my Prime Minister (as I'm not in her constituency)
I didn't vote for MP either
In fact, I've never lived in a constituency where I was represented by the person I voted for, somehow I've always lived in uber-safe seats.
I'd love to see the end of DST, but if this is agreed to by all the EU member states then it'll be a nightmare for us in the UK, because the lunatics are in charge of the asylum, so 1). They can't agree on anything, and 2). If the EU does it, it means that it's undemocratic and bad.
And yet there often are (gasp) reasons as to why things are the way they are. Maybe you need to be in the office 8 to 5 because customers expect to be able to reach you? Or co-workers who want to talk to you can? Or there's an early shift because the UPS truck comes at 4pm to pick up product and producing something at 4:01 is worthless?
We've done that a long time ago. We even did away with a having to be at work at a certain time. And guess what: It works.
Yes, some people start at 6am. Some come in around 11am. But there's plenty of overlap that you can get a meeting scheduled, and a lot of NON-overlap so you can actually get work done, too, because you can't stuff that time with more meetings. Which led to people actually thinking before scheduling yet another useless hour long meeting for something that can be resolved in 2 emails.
This way the ones that want some precious afternoon rays can get them by getting out around 3pm while those that value their morning sleep can arrive just before lunch (and are actually awake by then instead of waddling in like zombies at 9am and require an hour and three coffee just to be barely functional).
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Not changing anything seems to be the more sensible alternative.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Earlier this week, the European Parliament voted 384 to 153 to review whether Daylight Saving Time is actually worth it. Although the resolution it voted on was non-binding, the majority reflected a growing dissatisfaction with a system that has been used by the U.S., Canada, most of Europe, and regions in Asia, Africa, and South America for decades.
I don't think anyone minds Daylight Saving Time itself. What they mind is the needless switching back and forth. Personally I want us to go to Daylight Saving Time permanently. It gives me the most daylight hours in the evening after work when I can made the most use of them. I don't need noon to be the point in the day when the sun is highest overhead. I'm perfectly fine with noon being defined in the manner with the greatest utility for the most people. If that means noon is what currently is 3pm then so be it.
And having fixed standard work times is just as idiotic as the idea of daylight saving...
You've never tried to manage a business have you? There is a lot of benefit to having most companies work predictable schedules. Real, tangible, measurable, economic benefit. If you worked in a company like mine you'd find that it's really hard to run an assembly line without people showing up at the same time each day. Good luck running a hospital with people coming and going whenever they feel like it. Have fun running a restaurant when the waitstaff or cooks can come and go whenever.
Many of us have to deal with clients or suppliers in other countries who don't work at the same time anyway.
And far more of us do work with clients who are nearby and need to be able to interact with us on a predictable schedule. It is a LOT easier to arrange this if most businesses have roughly similar or highly predicable schedules.
Many businesses operate 24/7.
Many more do not. What is your point?
I think most people agree with you. Having the extra daylight in the evening is nice. Very few people like standard time ("Winter" time).
It's about time we abolished this idiocy. Assuming the EU actually listens to the populace, then we will all just shift to permanent DST, which is the same as shifting one time-zone to the right.
The chances of the EU listening to the populace? Variable, sort of like a lottery.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
All the DST-lovers always try to pretend that it's impossible to adjust work hours.
That's a stupid argument. Walk down any street and take note of the business hours. Every business keeps different hours; they adjust their times based on day of the week and holidays; even having different hours in summer vs winter is fairly common. This conception that people have that we need DST so that everyone will work the same schedule is simply false. People already can and do account for the fact that working hours aren't always the same.
The world will not fall apart if business A adjusts their schedule by an hour and business B does not.
How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
Retrain customers you say? HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa!!
Oh, you were serious? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Hey, the banks did it! Good luck trying to get into a bank office these days without a time reservation or a crowbar, all the customer service is online.
How will I know when to change my smoke alarm batteries?
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
I used to love coming in to work early, because I could dos about posting on Slashdot while no-one else was around, and then knock off early and post on Slashdot from home for a few extra hours ever evening.
Then I realized I can just post on Slashdot all day at work on no-one seems to notice, so I only get up just in time to roll in to work right on time.
You think I'm joking.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
if you have store opening hours from 09:00 to 18:00, this means that problems with the POS will be during those times. That means that the IT people who deal with those issues must be available. No, this will not be all of them.
This is another of my pet peeves: Having store opening hours the majority of which fall in the time when most people with jobs can't visit the store. Unless you're something like a coffee shop with a large customer base that grabs a cup on the way to work, your most important business hours are likely to be the couple of hours in the middle of the day over which everyone else's lunch breaks are spread and the time after 17:00 when other people leave work. Changing your opening times to 11:00-20:00 would likely increase the amount of time when you're open and your potential customers are able to attend and would mean that most of your staff wouldn't be travelling to and from work at rush hour.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I just walk into my downtown bank branch, sign my name, and wait 0-5 minutes. Find a new bank.
These days, you're lucky to find someone (competent) answering phones from 9 to 5.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
There is a difference between having the opportunity to elect your representative, versus a bureaucratic appointment. Theoretically elected representatives are swayed by feedback from their constituency. A bureaucrat only answers to the person that appointed him.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire