Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Facebook Must Stop Tracking Belgian Users, Court Rules (mercurynews.com)

Posted by msmash on from the stop-it-while-you-can dept.

Facebook must stop tracking Belgian users' surfing outside the social network and delete data it's already gathered, or it will face fines of 250,000 ($312,000) euros a day, a Belgian court ruled. From a report: Facebook "doesn't sufficiently inform" clients about the data it gathers on their broader web use, nor does it explain what it does with the information or say how long it stores it, the Brussels Court of First Instance said in a statement. The social network is coming under increasing fire in Europe, with a high-profile German antitrust probe examining whether it unfairly compels users to sign up to restrictive privacy terms. Belgium's data-protection regulators have targeted the company since at least 2015 when a court ordered it to stop storing non-users' personal data.

83 comments

  1. Do it or.... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That fine isn't enough to really deter Facebook, unfortunately. I'm not sure why fines aren't put as a percentage of income.

    That said, Belgium is actually standing up to tracking companies.

    --
    Your ad here. Ask me how!
    1. Re:Do it or.... by beelsebob · · Score: 2

      That fine is 0.25% of facebook's revenue, or 5% of their profit. They sure as hell are going to pay attention to a fine that size.

    2. Re:Do it or.... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      250k/day for the local Facebook subsidiary is significant, and only the start. If they ignore it then the regulator can apply for further sanctions, contempt of court etc. Facebook staff can potentially go to jail.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Do it or.... by cayenne8 · · Score: 2

      That said, Belgium is actually standing up to tracking companies.

      You know, there's not much I'd like to see of Europe brought into the US (its ok for them, but I like things mostly how they are here).....BUT, I would like to see privacy rights and some restrictions on the unfettered gathering and sharing/selling of people's data by companies like FB.

      I'd especially like it, if FB was mandated to remove any information or 'shadow' profiles of people that have NEVER even opted to join FB.

      There are reasons people don't join FB and there is no reason for Facebook to gather, store and track people that are not a member of their site/organization.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:Do it or.... by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      Of course if Facebook decides it is more profitable to pay the fine, then they are opening the door for more governments to make such a rule, so they can bring in Facebook bucks into their economy. $113,880,000 a year which can fund some nice project. So if Facebook pays other countries may want in too. If they follow the same principal of about $10 per citizen a year. That can chew up a lot of money very quickly.

      It will probably be a better plan for Facebook to fix the issue to comply with the law, if not because of their income, but to make sure it doesn't become a habit.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:Do it or.... by gnick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are reasons people don't join FB and there is no reason for Facebook to gather, store and track people that are not a member of their site/organization.

      There's every reason to track non-members. You may not think it's fair, but your data is valuable and it's going to get collected, used, and sold whether you like it or not. There are steps you can take to slow that down (like not signing up for FB), but you're not going to stop it without help from the lawmakers.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    6. Re:Do it or.... by Luthair · · Score: 1

      $312000/day = $114 million/day. Seems significant for a country of 10 million.

    7. Re:Do it or.... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      There are steps you can take to slow that down (like not signing up for FB), but you're not going to stop it without help from the lawmakers.

      That was the point of my post, I was saying while I'm not in favor of most of what I consider intrusive, oppressive and anti-freedom type European laws and regulations on most things, I'm quite in favor of this type of thing, and with the US lawmakers would put forth some legislation such as Belgium did here.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    8. Re:Do it or.... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Didn't cayenne8 literally just say that this is something they would like to see done more like Europe, where these things are restricted by law?

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    9. Re:Do it or.... by sconeu · · Score: 2

      Yes, but given that non-members have NOT agreed to the T&C, what legal right does FB have to track them?

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    10. Re:Do it or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      New math?

    11. Re:Do it or.... by gnick · · Score: 1

      The question isn't "What right do they have?" The question is "What's going to stop them?"

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    12. Re:Do it or.... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2

      The fine is 15MM euro a month. Dec. 2017 they had 10,451 MM euro in revenue. That's not close to 0.25%, it's 0.15%. But their month over month revenue growth is huge, and year over year as well. So that's likely to be far lower than that already.

      If they're still in growth mode (ala Uber) then losing money to fines to lock things down is expected. It's not clear they can grow to more users, but they can grow more intrusively into their lives.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    13. Re:Do it or.... by beelsebob · · Score: 2

      And the answer is "EU law".

    14. Re:Do it or.... by freax · · Score: 1

      What? How? Americans matter? Also?

      Hey mate. We have plenty to do here. We really can't consider Americans' feelings and whereabouts in our daily activities.

      Europeans, obviously. Chinese, definitely. Russians? Yeah, sure, mister Putin. Africans? Well, ok then. South-Americans? Sure, yes. Central-Americans? Whatareyou insane? These self-induced propaganda introctrinated people are wasted. We really have no time for their problems. Really. No. Just no.

      Fscking freaks.

    15. Re:Do it or.... by houghi · · Score: 1

      You know, there's not much I'd like to see of Europe brought into the US

      Belgian chocolate? Belgian beer (oh wait, They already own Anheuser Bush)

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    16. Re:Do it or.... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      There's every reason to track non-members. You may not think it's fair, but your data is valuable and it's going to get collected, used, and sold whether you like it or not. There are steps you can take to slow that down (like not signing up for FB), but you're not going to stop it without help from the lawmakers.

      There's every reason to take the wallets from people walking down the street. You may not think it's fair, but your wallet is valuable and it's going to get taken from you at gunpoint whether you like it or not. There are steps you can take to slow that down (like have a gun in your hand and look tough), but you're not going to stop it without help from the lawmakers.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    17. Re:Do it or.... by gnick · · Score: 1

      IIRC the lawmakers addressed that one.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    18. Re:Do it or.... by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Actually the answer is all Facebook IP addresses will be censored out of existence across the entire EU. They could even demand the set up EU only servers and all data stored in the respective countries only, which pretty much seems on the cards. Once you charge for advertising in a country and target it's citizens with advertisements, you are pretty much stitched up or you accept ceasing operations in those locations. The hate for Facebook seems to be growing in countries, likely just the initial push for a requirement for localised social media web sites to dominate.

      Notice how pissed off Soros https://au.news.yahoo.com/a/38... when he realised he was being scammed by internet advertising (they were not winning people over, they were simply collating existing converts, fooled by the numbers on purpose).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    19. Re:Do it or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not "hate for Facebook", just hate for illegal practices.

      Facebook knew quite well about "Convention 108" and all the EU laws on personal data and privacy protection, they just choose to ignore because while they wait for things to go to court in each individual member-states (and eventually reach the European Commission or even the ECJ) they would have a run at the market and try to seize it and pressure/lobby against such privacy and personal data legislations.... now the hammer is starting to fall on them for breaking the law and they start to see that we Europeans don't kid with privacy.

    20. Re:Do it or.... by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Facebook is more like a pick pocket, a smart one who removes your wallet, copies your credit card numbers or just takes one bill and returns it without you even noticing (usually). No guns need to be involved.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    21. Re:Do it or.... by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      Re "What about the people that matter?"
      As a movie drama script about international trade?
      Lawyers for the US brand would have a talk with the Belgium gov.
      The gov in Belgium still wants to go down the path of seeking huge fines on a US brand?
      The US gov activates its embassy to have a friendly in depth conversation with the Belgium gov about its free trade obligations.
      After all that friendly consultation the USA then goes full "democracy" on Belgium.
      Belgium is educated in a direct way until it understand to listen and respond correctly to all US concerns over free trade.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    22. Re:Do it or.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *...they're tapping the line...*

    23. Re:Do it or.... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Since you were responding to someone who said "I hope this is made illegal" with some nonsense about why the data is valuable, my response stating equivalence between the states is valid. You have to explain why one is legal and the other not.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    24. Re:Do it or.... by Z00L00K · · Score: 2

      But how about their revenue in Belgium where this is an issue right now?

      The next step is the EU GDPR directive, that one is going to be a royal pain in the butt for Facebook and similar services. At the EU level the fines would be higher.

      Lawful Basis For Processing
      Data can only be processed if there is at least one lawful basis to do so[15]. The lawful bases for processing data are:

              the data subject has given consent to the processing of his or her personal data for one or more specific purposes.
              processing is necessary for the performance of a contract to which the data subject is party or in order to take steps at the request of the data subject prior to entering into a contract.
              processing is necessary for compliance with a legal obligation to which the controller is subject.
              processing is necessary in order to protect the vital interests of the data subject or of another natural person.
              processing is necessary for the performance of a task carried out in the public interest or in the exercise of official authority vested in the controller.
              processing is necessary for the purposes of the legitimate interests pursued by the controller or by a third party, except where such interests are overridden by the interests or fundamental rights and freedoms of the data subject which require protection of personal data, in particular where the data subject is a child.
      Consent
      Where consent is used as the lawful basis for processing, consent must be explicit for data collected and the purposes data are used for (Article 7; defined in Article 4). Consent for children[16] must be given by the child’s parent or custodian, and verifiable (Article 8). Data controllers must be able to prove "consent" (opt-in) and consent may be withdrawn.[17]

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    25. Re:Do it or.... by freax · · Score: 1

      So in return we Belgians are going to get a movie about Belgium from Hollywood?

      Start the litigations!

    26. Re: Do it or.... by jasko2007 · · Score: 1

      Yes yes punish them pleeeease. Fucking Facebook nazies

    27. Re:Do it or.... by freax · · Score: 1

      "But the investor's traditional Davos predictions do not always pan out. Last year in Switzerland he warned that the stock market rally would end after Trump's election and that China's growth rate was unsustainable.

      China's growth has continued while US stocks are regularly hitting record highs."

      So basically, Soros is an 87 years old dude with a lot of opinions? Welcome to the club, Soros. *hug*.

  2. Can't wait until by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Russian court rules facebook must stop tracking Russian users.

    1. Re:Can't wait until by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      Wait until another country goes after Twitter. I don't want to see this escalate to a nuclear war.

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    2. Re:Can't wait until by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      For what? Spreading Trump weirdness?

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  3. FB ratchets up data collection in response by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    Welcome to Facebook!

    In order to determine if you are a Belgian user, Facebook now requires access to:

    * Your photo library
    * Your location for the last five years
    * Certain medical records
    * Microphone always on to detect Belgian accent
    * All history of waffle making

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:FB ratchets up data collection in response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuck waffles, Belgium has the best beer in the world.

    2. Re:FB ratchets up data collection in response by freax · · Score: 1

      Just make a CAPTCHA displaying the number 90. If they type "nonante", they are Belgian. If they type wa is da hier? They are Belgian.

    3. Re:FB ratchets up data collection in response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They certainly like to tell themselves that, as well as everyone they meet.

      Not that I'm against the Belgian beer snobs but they are many others that could be the best in nearly all terms.

    4. Re:FB ratchets up data collection in response by DickBreath · · Score: 1

      Your suggestion regarding waffles would probably cause irritation compared to pancakes which are smoother than waffles. Be careful. Just sayin'

      --

      I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
    5. Re:FB ratchets up data collection in response by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      French-speaking Swiss also say "nonante" instead of quatre-vingt-dix. Of course I'd like to see Swiss data protection laws actually applied, which would immediately outlaw Facebook and send their Switzerland-based personnel into 3-stars hotels... Er, I meant "prison".

  4. 250,000 ($312,000) euros by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Woah, US-dollar in the crapper again?

    1. Re:250,000 ($312,000) euros by jellomizer · · Score: 0

      The word is "still".

      However the Euro when it was created was purposely set at a rate higher then the USD mostly for bragging rights.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:250,000 ($312,000) euros by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      However the Euro when it was created was purposely set at a rate higher then the USD mostly for bragging rights.

      That's incorrect. The predecessor of the Euro replaced the European Currency Unit (ECU) at parity. The ECU was derived (at parity) from its predecessor, the European Unit of Account (EUA), which in 1975 was set at parity with one IMF special drawing right, which itself was defined via a basket of currencies. That's hardly arbitrary.

    3. Re:250,000 ($312,000) euros by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      I wasn't saying that it was the only factor. However different currencies values can be defined differently, based on just saying when we convert X into Y Y = so much amount.

      So we had to merge the German Mark and the French Franc They had their own value however they can be traded with each other. So they decided 2 Mark in and Euro and 6 Franc in a Eruo. They could had made it 1 Mark in a Euro and 3 Franc in a Euro. Where the Euro will be priced at about $0.60 for each dollar. This wouldn't had any major effect on the economy, or even the strength of the currency, As everyone would have twice as many Euros and would need to pay Twice as much for a product.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  5. They dont want competition. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    General Electronic System Tracking All People Online can only be done by the governments. Private companies should not muscle into the Government functions.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:They dont want competition. by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      There Godwin's Law came!

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:They dont want competition. by freax · · Score: 1

      It was well hidden though. +1 for the guy anyway.

  6. And yet they can fine Facebook by freax · · Score: 1

    Belgium doesn't exist! It's all one big conspiracy! https://zapatopi.net/belgium/

    (But still, I'm glad that my government is taking action against Facebook. Let's hope the other EU nations join in on the fun)

  7. They just want their cut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That said, Belgium is actually standing up to tracking companies.

    So naive.

    1. Re: They just want their cut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't care. Fuck Facebook.

    2. Re:They just want their cut by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Naive? Belgium can decide what happens on their ground. Facebook can do as they please in other countries - in Belgium they can't. They can change, they can pay out millions in fines every year. Or pull out - to be replaced by something else.

    3. Re:They just want their cut by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Come 25 May 2018 and then the GDPR comes into force where you have "Right of access" and "Right to erasure".

      Right of access
      The Right of Access (Article 15) is a data subject right.[20] This gives citizens the right to get access to their personal data and information about how these personal data are being processed. A Data Controller has to provide, upon request, an overview of the categories of data that are being processed (Article 15(1)(b)) as well as a copy of the actual data (Article 15(3)). Furthermore the Data Controller has to inform the data subject on details about the processing such as; what the purposes are of the processing (Article 15(1)(a)), with whom the data are shared (Article 15(1)(c)) and how it acquired the data (Article 15(1)(g)).

      Right to erasure
      A right to be forgotten was replaced by a more limited right to erasure in the version of the GDPR adopted by the European Parliament in March 2014.[21][22] Article 17 provides that the data subject has the right to request erasure of personal data related to them on any one of a number of grounds including non-compliance with article 6.1 (lawfulness) that includes a case (f) where the legitimate interests of the controller is overridden by the interests or fundamental rights and freedoms of the data subject which require protection of personal data (see also Google Spain SL, Google Inc. v Agencia Española de Protección de Datos, Mario Costeja González).

      So everyone in the EU after that date could request Facebook to provide them with the full set of data Facebook has on them.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  8. Full of it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ....we give people the right to opt-out of having data collected on sites and apps off Facebook being used for ads.”

    They don't give anything. First you have to find how to do it. Second, you can only turn off certain things. Third, they automatically opt-in on their own again after turning off

    Fourth, I don't even use that crap facebook because I have a life, but they are tracking me. Samsun put a facecrap app on my phone as a default and I can't uninstall it. I disable it but after system updates, it's enabled again.

  9. Belgium still exists? by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    That's news. I thought it broke up years ago.

    1. Re:Belgium still exists? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they just demonstrated you don't really need a government if you're civilized enough. Unlike, for instance, their neighbours France and Germany who are brutal, bloodthirsty savages and child-killers.

    2. Re:Belgium still exists? by freax · · Score: 1

      How, but, you think that we didn't have a government during our long government formation? No no no no. No. No you're wrong.

      We had plenty of remaining governments.

      I actually tried counting them once. I think we have seven. So when the Federal government is in formation, we have the outgoing government and six others simultaneously. But which one are ruling over me at that time, I don't quite understand. I'm just not smart enough to understand that.

      I don't think anybody in Belgium understands any of this. I guess most people stopped caring.

  10. Next up: Canada by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Trust me on this, the Canadian Constitution is very clear.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  11. How do I become a Belgian citizen by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 1

    OK... where do I sign up to become Belgian! First waffles, now this. Belgium is the place to be.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re:How do I become a Belgian citizen by Presence+Eternal · · Score: 2

      So, if this law is enforced, just going to throw this out there, might it be possible to change location to someplace in Belgium? A little spoofing might force Facebook to clear all your existing internet history?

    2. Re:How do I become a Belgian citizen by freax · · Score: 1

      Website http://www.dofi.fgov.be/
      Antwerpsesteenweg 59 B
      1000 Brussel
      Telefoonnummer: 02 793 80 00

  12. What's a Belgian user? by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

    Citizen? Resident? The article didn't seem to make that clear.

    1. Re:What's a Belgian user? by nashv · · Score: 1

      It applies to all residents of Belgium. Typically it means if you use Facebook from within the jurisdiction of Belgian law.

      --
      Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.
  13. Please stop using that word. by sconeu · · Score: 1

    Belgium's data-protection regulators have targeted the company since at least 2015 when a court ordered it to stop storing non-users' personal data.

    Since this is not a serious screenplay, please do not use the B-word on Slashdot!

    The next thing you know, you'll be inviting Krikkitmen here!

    --
    General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
  14. Translation by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    The EU politicians don't want to be tracked.

    1. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Translation EU politicians are not as easy to buy a US politicians.

  15. We have stopped tracking, we promise! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Heh Heh, Sure we will.

  16. It is only for Belgium! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You need to compare it to their profits or revenue for Belguim though. Belgium is small.
    You can bet it will be significant to their interest in doing business in Belgium.

    And don't think that fine won't raise if they just ignore it. Especially if the entire EU smells a free revenue stream, or it merely becomes EU wide for other reasons.

    1. Re: It is only for Belgium! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just BURN FACEBOOK there is no other solution. Burn them !!!

    2. Re: It is only for Belgium! by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      That's always an option if you like martyrs.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  17. tat for tit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What I demand is that websites that show any identifying info about you provide you with identifying information about everyone who sees your info.

  18. What about Windows 10? by Stan92057 · · Score: 2

    Windows 10 is data mining and more on mega levels, far passing anything FB is doing.

    --
    Jack of all trades,master of none
    1. Re:What about Windows 10? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would love to know the name of the twat in Microsoft whose idea this was. If there is any justice in the world he'll get doxxed! ha ha

    2. Re:What about Windows 10? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His name is Bill G.

    3. Re:What about Windows 10? by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      And how do you Doxx someone that everyone already knows who he is?

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    4. Re:What about Windows 10? by GNious · · Score: 1

      Is there a way to be tracked by Windows 10 w/o being a user?!?

    5. Re:What about Windows 10? by freax · · Score: 1

      Stealing somebody else's with Win10 installed laptop?

  19. There's a solution though: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have whitelist firewall for all HTTP requests. Ban anything *unless* it has shown trustworthiness.

    If necessary, do other requests in a fully separate and sanitized throwaway context for each request. Meaning the information (like HTTP headers, available fonts, etc) will be exactly the same for all users and all requests. (Preferably the IP adresses too, but that would require neutral VPNs.)

    If something breaks ... let it be broken! The website is broken then. Not the browser.

  20. What is it with you sick fucks supporting torture? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So because they harmed others, your fucking retarded asshole logic is to do like them and also harm others (e.g. them)?

    How about wr apply that same idiotic Nazi piece of shit legal system to you piece of shit too then? Cause clearly you commited the crime you deem deserver that reaction, so you need to be fine with it to not conttadict your own dumb self!
    (Except *I* would never do that!)

    Fuckin morons. The world is full of fuckin morons.

  21. Or take your cards and go home by brunes69 · · Score: 1

    I always wonder at what point in these European rulings Facebook would just take their cards and go home and shut down all Belgian accounts.

    Somehow, I don't think such a thing would go over that well for politicians in Belgium.

    Things are going to reach that point for some of these tech companies sooner or later. If a country becomes unprofitable to do business in, then they'll just leave.

    1. Re: Or take your cards and go home by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fingers crossed

  22. Re:What is it with you sick fucks supporting tortu by freax · · Score: 1

    "The world is full of fuckin morons."

    That at least is correct, in your comment.

  23. Will switching my country to Belgium help? by bkk_diesel · · Score: 1

    Of course I didn't read TFA. But if I have a Facebook account will switching my country to Belgium be of any advantage?

    1. Re:Will switching my country to Belgium help? by freax · · Score: 1

      If Facebook follows the law, maybe.

      So no.

  24. bahaha TOO LATE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Facebook is mole paradise. What can they do with all of your info? Nothing. Die. LOL fuckem