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What Airbnb Did To New York City (citylab.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: There are two kinds of horror stories about Airbnb. When the home-sharing platform first appeared, the initial cautionary tales tended to emphasize extreme guest (and occasionally host) misbehavior. But as the now decade-old service matured and the number of rental properties proliferated dramatically, a second genre emerged, one that focused on what the service was doing to the larger community: Airbnb was raising rents and taking housing off the rental market. It was supercharging gentrification while discriminating against guests and hosts of color. And as commercial operators took over, it was transforming from a way to help homeowners occasionally rent out an extra room into a purveyor of creepy, makeshift hotels.

Several studies have looked into these claims; some focused on just one issue at a time, or measured Airbnb-linked trends across wide swaths of the country. But a recent report by David Wachsmuth, a professor of Urban Planning at McGill University, zeroes in on New York City in an effort to answer the question of exactly what home sharing is doing to the city. [...] Their conclusion: Most of those rumors are true. Wachsmuth found reason to believe that Airbnb has indeed raised rents, removed housing from the rental market, and fueled gentrification -- at least in New York City. "

53 of 340 comments (clear)

  1. Fix it with some careful regulation by mysidia · · Score: 4, Interesting

    transforming from a way to help homeowners occasionally rent out an extra room into a purveyor of creepy, makeshift hotels.

    How about this: create a law that Limits the number of housing units AND number of days rented out per year which any 1 person or business is allowed to make available for short-term rent without a Hotel permit for each property --- including through any number of business partners or related entities.

    So if you're a homeowner and have 1 or 2 properties which you rent out less than 80% of the year total across your properties, then FINE, allow that ---- You're allowed to have up to a total of ONE rental unit for short/temp housing accommodation (Count that includes Any and all sub-rentals across all properties that occur for a time less than 20 days) rented out 80% of the days each year, OR two housing accommodations rented out average 40% of the days per 1 year per unit, OR three housing accommodations rented out no more than average 26.67% of the days per 1 year per unit.

    (In other words: the more units that are rented out to different tenants, the fewer days you may be renting them out per year.)

    Thus if you have 3 properties in the same city Or have it rented out your properties for a combined total among your properties of more than 290 rental-days, then you're in a "Short-term accommodation business" and must have planning approval and permit your properties as Hotel space --- which if approved by Zoning includes regular inspections, and an additional Tax on each rental.

    Reasonable regulation should allow reasonable rental revenue by an ordinary homeowner BUT prevent wealthy real-estate investors or corporations from exploiting Uber to make large-scale transformations of apartments to hotel rooms, etc.

    1. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People love to invent rules for other people. The more complicated the better. If it's not working, make it more complicated, until it starts working.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    2. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by SirSlud · · Score: 3, Funny

      Simple rules for simple people.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    3. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by mysidia · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People love to invent rules for other people. The more complicated the better.

      Fine. Ban all short-term leasing or sub-leasing of Apartments, Homes, or portions of an Apartment or Home on all Real-Estate, except for Commercial Units licensed as hotels.
      Do you feel that is superior?

    4. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by jonsmirl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Great, then the owners of those restaurants will have to pay their workers more!

      No area is going to lose all of their restaurants, etc. There is always demand for services like that. Prices will adjust and employee pay will increase. Restaurant workers in NYC already get paid triple what a restaurant worker in Alabama gets.

    5. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by edtice1559 · · Score: 2

      Rules are only useful if they can be enforced. Rental units are being diverted to ghost hotels. If you add rent controls the diversion will increase until most every building is a ghost hotel. AirBNB is a very effective tool for skirting the rules disguised as a legitimate platform which is why it gets so much attention.

    6. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you want rents to be lower, allow people to build more housing. Rent control doesn't fix anything.

    7. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by Hal_Porter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Milton Friedman on price controls

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Nobel prize winner Milton Friedman said "We economists don't know much, but we do know how to create a shortage. If you want to create a shortage of tomatoes, for example, just pass a law that retailers can't sell tomatoes for more than two cents per pound. Instantly you'll have a tomato shortage. It's the same with oil or gas."

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    8. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People love to invent rules for [society]

      That's what you do when you see a problem. You curb it. Hell, people "invented rules" about privatizing the commons, and we got an agricultural revolution. People also "invented rules" about having to serve black people the same as white people in a restaurant. Rules can be forces for good.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    9. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by cayenne8 · · Score: 2

      What happens when you run off the people who work the lower paying jobs? If no one below a certain amount of pay can live there, then you lose all your restaurant workers, sanitation, etc. Most people aren't going to ride the bus for an hour to work for $10/hr. They will just find another job.

      Well, I guess if a normal, non-overregulated system worked...those living with high rents would get tired of not having place to go to, since there wouldn't be any low pay workers..and start moving out.

      Then, rents would go down, more low pay people would move back, and get jobs...and the cycle would keep rolling.

      The system tries to get to equilibrium, and you'd see swings, sure like now, but in the long run, things will balance themselves out.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    10. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by eth1 · · Score: 2

      Wouldn't it be much simpler (and closer to the original spirit of AirBnB) to just say you need a hotel permit for short-term rentals at any non-owner-occupied property?

    11. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 3, Interesting

      People love to invent rules for [society]

      That's what you do when you see a problem. You curb it. Hell, people "invented rules" about privatizing the commons, and we got an agricultural revolution. People also "invented rules" about having to serve black people the same as white people in a restaurant. Rules can be forces for good.

      I've spent a significant part of my career making rules. Good, clear, unambiguous, effective and enforceable rules are usually not trivial to create and deserve at lot of thought and review. This is slashdot, People fantasize about new rules for breakfast.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    12. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Informative

      Rent control doesn't solve the problem because it actively discourages new development, which when you have a growing population leads to housing shortages. Legislating something doesn't alter reality or prohibition would have worked, there would be no litter in parks, and Wall Street would never do anything someone finds unscrupulous.

      You also get plenty of cases where people who don't need rent control housing occupy it (and hold on to it) because it's cheaper. You also see even worse examples like the Congressman who was renting four separate rent-controlled apartments at the same time.

      There are various schools of economics and they often squabble over policies and correct courses of action for many things, but rent control is not one of them.

    13. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by jonsmirl · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The root of SF's problems is decades of government interference in the housing market. Adam Smith's invisible hand would sort everything out if the government would stop holding it back. Market forces work at all levels, if there are not enough restaurants to satisfy demand prices will rise and workers will get paid more. Everything falls apart when people in the government think they are smarter than the invisible hand and enact laws supporting their social agendas. There is an obvious correlation in America with city governments that interfere with the housing market and problems in those same cities with housing the poor. In general the more the government interferes to worse it gets for the majority of the poor, select segments of the poor benefit from government interference, but those not selected get hurt a lot more.

    14. Re: Fix it with some careful regulation by spongman · · Score: 3

      This is what San franciscodid. It's removing even more units from the rental market.

    15. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Why is this a bad thing? It is called capitalism.

      No, this is a new and quite skewed form of capitalism ... because it's one or two companies pooling vast numbers of private renters, for which there is no analog.

      It's not like one entity bough a large amount of properties and then rented them, this is basically collecting a bunch of people and saying "hey, if you all rent your properties and give us a cut, we'll all be rich". The owners effectively provide the capital to what is effectively some tech people ... but the tech people do very little to earn their cut.

      Let supply and demand function without interference in order to establish a market level price.

      Ah, you've totally bought into all of the lies, so therefore will be irrational.

      The problem is the "market" is a disparate bunch of greedy assholes, all of whom would probably lie, cheat, and steal to maximize profits. The market doesn't arrive at optimum solutions because the players are dishonest and the consumers have imperfect information.

      What you're saying effectively "we should let assholes like Donald Trump set the price of real estate".

      The reality is, unfettered capitalism is bad for society. Sure, it makes some people rich, but it also chews up everyone else and grinds them to dust. We're all tired of being at the mercy of rich assholes, and having policies which is designed to profit them at the expense of everyone.

      There is no free market. There never has been, and there never will be. What's idiotic is expecting the market to achieve any outcome other than "the greediest and most unscrupulous wins the game".

      In countless cities, AirBnB has the effect of making housing more scarce and un-affordable. I've heard stories of condos where exactly one owner lives there, and the rest just rent them. This harms the people who actually live in that city, so that a small number of people can profit off tourists ... and actually removes rental properties from the market.

      Turning property zoned for residential, and effectively turning it into commercial property bypasses property tax issue (your commercial property pays more than your home), and makes the units unavailable for people who need homes to live in ... effectively, AirBnB is an externality to the system which fundamentally alters the housing market.

      So, please, be welcome to pay commercial property tax after you have duly had your property re-zoned commercial instead of residential. If you want to run your apartment as a business, you should be paying the income tax, property tax, business licenses, and additional infrastructure costs for that dwelling. Otherwise, in the case of a condo, you're expecting the other owners to fund your business.

      This entire 'sharing' economy is about large companies getting other people to pay the operating costs, and in the case of AirBnB, those costs cover lots of impacts t other people. Like if they can't find a home to live in because everyone in the neighborhood is running a commercial rental without being treated as such.

      This so fundamentally alters the supply and demand equation as to provide one group of people an unfair advantage over the rest.

      This isn't a free market issue, because this is fundamentally changing the nature of the market. That has terrible outcomes for cities. The people renting out their properties are suddenly operating under different rules than everyone else. And the companies like AirBnB make money without paying any of the costs that a hotel company would normally pay.

      Sorry, no, being a tech company with an app doesn't exempt you from the rules. Not for Uber, not for AirBnB.

    16. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by GameboyRMH · · Score: 2

      How about this: create a law that Limits the number of housing units AND number of days rented out per year which any 1 person or business is allowed to make available for short-term rent without a Hotel permit for each property --- including through any number of business partners or related entities.

      You clearly underestimate how easy it is to obscure the ownership of a company. I would welcome the changes necessary to make your proposed law effective though.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    17. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      One needs not look beyond third world countries that implement capitalism without state structures capable of regulating it to find why unregulated capitalism is more economically destructive than even marxist-leninist amalgam of socialism and communism.

    18. Re: Fix it with some careful regulation by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 3, Insightful

      True. And that is because "affordable housing" isn't affordable to the poor.

    19. Re:Fix it with some careful regulation by LunaticTippy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That is a beautiful way to keep prices low! I kind of like how that reduces the incentive for people to buy speculatively. It's pretty dysfunctional how remote investors have distorted prices in the sf bay area, vancouver, etc.

      --
      Man, you really need that seminar!
    20. Re: Fix it with some careful regulation by Anonymous+Cow+Ward · · Score: 2

      Total manufacturing output in America has been steadily rising. Jobs, however, have been falling, as the average manufacturing worker is now more productive.

      --
      Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
  2. Gee, live in a city. . . by Salgak1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    . . . that restricts the supply of new housing, and has strong rent-control in place, and people are SURPRISED that property owners will find a way to to generate revenue, and then optimize that revenue ??

  3. Regulations were made for a reason by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    and I do wish we could get folks to understand that. Cities didn't limit hotels to "Preserve the Character of the neighborhood" or some other hippy crap. They did it to stop this kind of rent seeking garbage. People have to live where the jobs and rich folk know that. So they can pay damn near anything because they know they can rent it back to somebody and make a profit. Sure there are limits, but they're frighteningly high.

    This crap should just be shut down. Just like this crap was shut down when I was a kid and we called it sub-letting.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  4. Studies by 110010001000 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The problem with these types of studies is you will never know if they are correct or not, because there is no way to see what would have happened if Airbnb never came to NYC. Maybe it would have gentrified faster without Airbnb. NYC was gentrifying way before Airbnb came to the city. Of course, speculation is now presented as fact. That will make the funders of this study (the hotel industry) happy though, and that is what this is all about anyway. They can now push to get Airbnb out of NYC.

    1. Re:Studies by q_e_t · · Score: 2

      There are attempts to model tings like this via agent-based modelling, validating against other cities. The error bars can be pretty big, though.

  5. Re:It doesn't sound right... by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's one of those inane things that's just used to complain. If well off white people are moving in to a neighborhood it's gentrification. If they're moving out it's white flight. I'm sure if they stayed in place long enough, some term would be created to castigate them for that as well.

  6. I remember when by John+Jorsett · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... it was "white flight" when middle-class people abandoned crime-infested, poor, dirty urban areas, and it was deemed bad. Now that people are moving back into these areas and the crime and dirt and poverty are leaving, it's "gentrification" and it's deemed bad.

    1. Re:I remember when by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ... it was "white flight" when middle-class people abandoned crime-infested, poor, dirty urban areas, and it was deemed bad.

      Leaving by choice. Still bad because it deprived those neighborhoods of critically needed taxes and other benefits.

      the crime and dirt and poverty are leaving, it's "gentrification" and it's deemed bad.

      Being forced out. Not by choice. See the difference? Gentrification also usually means those pushed out have to move even further away from their jobs, sometimes making those jobs no longer tenable but mainly just increasing transportation cost (time and money) to those jobs. Costs the poor already have a hard time bearing as is.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    2. Re:I remember when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's racist when whites want to live in clean, safe neighborhoods.

    3. Re:I remember when by Obfuscant · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The fact that the whole thing is described by what white people are doing only goes to *highlight* that nobody gives a fuck unless it's affecting white people.

      The fact that the terms are only used when white people do it only goes to highlight that it is being blamed on white people. It's not affecting just white people, it affects everyone, and everyone does it.

  7. So we need different hotel regulation? by swb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Let me see if I understand this:

    ABnB works because ad-hoc rooms are cheaper than standard hotel rooms.

    So people rush into the ABnB market, removing conventional apartments from the pool of long-term housing, driving up rents as the pool of apartments shrinks.

    So if hotels are losing customers, why aren't they cutting hotel rates to be more competitive with ABnB? Hell, why aren't they slashing staff completely and converting some properties to ABnB only -- or becoming apartments?

    Do we need to reduce regulation on hotels so they can better compete with ABnB?

    Or is it some other thing, like hotels had successfully restricted competition and there was a practical shortage of hotels which drove prices too high?

    1. Re:So we need different hotel regulation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      So if hotels are losing customers, why aren't they cutting hotel rates to be more competitive with ABnB?

      If hotels could get away with ignoring the same laws, fees, and regulations that AirBnB abusers are ignoring, they would.

      Hell, why aren't they slashing staff completely and converting some properties to ABnB only -- or becoming apartments?

      Zoning. In most major cities, hotels cannot legally repurpose their buildings to anything other than short-term rental because that would put them in violation of the local zoning ordinances.

    2. Re:So we need different hotel regulation? by Nidi62 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Let me see if I understand this:

      ABnB works because ad-hoc rooms are cheaper than standard hotel rooms.

      So people rush into the ABnB market, removing conventional apartments from the pool of long-term housing, driving up rents as the pool of apartments shrinks.

      So if hotels are losing customers, why aren't they cutting hotel rates to be more competitive with ABnB? Hell, why aren't they slashing staff completely and converting some properties to ABnB only -- or becoming apartments?

      Do we need to reduce regulation on hotels so they can better compete with ABnB?

      Or is it some other thing, like hotels had successfully restricted competition and there was a practical shortage of hotels which drove prices too high?

      It's the Uber model. Hotels have to live up to all sorts of codes (fire codes, health codes, building codes, etc) and are inspected regularly. Airbnb homes, as private dwellings, are held to less stringent standards. Besides the cost reduction from this, the private homes don't have to pay for housekeeping, maintenance, front desk, and other staff, further reducing their costs. Hotels also have to collect and pay taxes that private dwellings may or may not collect and pay (there may or may not be local laws stating that they have to collect taxes, and they may or may not adhere to those laws if they do exist).

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    3. Re:So we need different hotel regulation? by MeNeXT · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hotels have regulations to follow which Airbnb washes it's hands. Airbnb doesn't care about negative reviews because you can't post them. When things go wrong Airbnb doesn't care, doesn't allow you to post about it on the site, and doesn't refund the payments. It has to hit the media in order for Airbnb to react. When it does hit the media the wash their hands of it by claiming to delist the owner only to find them back again a few months later.

      Regulations should apply to all or to none. If Airbnb is a listing service then travelers shouldn't have to pay commission. If travelers pay commission then Airbnb is the travelers agent and should be responsible for the state of the destination as a travel agent is in some jurisdictions.

      --
      DRM? No thanks, I'll just get it somewhere else...
    4. Re:So we need different hotel regulation? by edtice1559 · · Score: 2

      The difference in price between a hotel and a short-term rental is approximately equal to the hotel tax. And hotels have to meet much higher standards than short-term rentals. So what this means practically for customers is that you are giving up all of the safety and security of a hotel just to save a few tax dollars. And people are flocking to it.

    5. Re:So we need different hotel regulation? by sfcat · · Score: 2

      Hotels have regulations to follow which Airbnb washes it's hands. Airbnb doesn't care about negative reviews because you can't post them. When things go wrong Airbnb doesn't care, doesn't allow you to post about it on the site, and doesn't refund the payments. It has to hit the media in order for Airbnb to react. When it does hit the media the wash their hands of it by claiming to delist the owner only to find them back

      That's BS. Clearly you never hosted with Airbnb. Hosts get severely punished for bad reviews over time and many hosts have to go overboard in order to avoid bad reviews. 95% of people are reasonable but that last 5% will bitch no matter what. They seem to expect a hotel room for half the cost of a hotel room and if its not up to high-end hotel standards, they bitch endlessly. To counteract those folks Airbnb weights many reviews before taking action and usually the hosts have to cut their rates after just one or two bad reviews. The effect of Airbnb on cities probably isn't good, but you don't need to go making up facts when the actual facts are already in your favor. Also, being a host can be a miserable experience and I expect the corporate hosts to be the bulk of Airbnb's stock in the future.

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
  8. wrong target by supernova87a · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Look, don't blame Airbnb, Uber or whatever company happened to come along in this moment, for all your woes. What you're actually mad at is the absolute failure of our governments, public institutions, and elected officials to adapt their services and approaches (or be allowed to do this by a public that seemingly wants to vote by popularity contest rather than efficacy of government).

    Get mad at your fellow city residents who only vote in and approve of city ordinances that let housing stagnate, reward people who've just been here a long time and nothing else, foster complacency and lack of quality in taxi regulation, or believe that voters should have a say in everything and vote out people who happen to implement one rule they don't like.

    Get mad at policymakers who are too distracted with getting re-elected and resisting PAC money to actually focus on governing and making reasonable policies, leaving our basic infrastructure to crumble while they go after higher profile symbolic issues.

    Be mad at yourself, and this system we thought was the best in the world, but actually needs maintenance and dedication to make it work properly.

    Companies are just the messengers.

    1. Re:wrong target by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

      The problem with Uber and Airbnb is that it's not clear how our politicians can collect payoffs. Is it like through an app, or an envelope full of cash? These modern times are confusing to our old befuddled ruling class.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  9. Airbnb is a scam by MeNeXT · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Airbnb takes commission on both sides and when there is a major problem to deal with they disappear.

    If you are lucky enough to book with a decent host you may get what you pay for. Unfortunately when you book with a scammer you are on your own. There is absolutely no help provided from Airbnb. This is based on my personal experience traveling for 30 years so your mileage may vary.

    No business is perfect. This is not about perfection. This is bout what happens when things go wrong. You are thousands of miles away and may have limited funds available or in a completely different culture where communication is not easy.

    Normally with a regular permitted establishment you can verify various independent reviews. On Airbnb only positive reviews are posted. You only find this out when things go wrong. Airbnb does not post negative reviews even though you paid for the full stay.

    Permitted establishments normally are inspected by local authorities which try to ensure a minimum standards. This does not mean that something won't go wrong but there is a bare minimum such as fire regulations. Information posting. Emergency exits. With Airbnb you are no even guaranteed that there will be a place to stay. Again Airbnb takes very little responsibility as to the accessibility or even to the legality of the rental. They haven't even visited the location to ensure that it is fit for the purpose advertised.

    So Airbnb takes commission on both sides of the deal and provides none of the advantages afforded from the regulated and established lodging hosts and when things go wrong you are left abandoned and screwed. The horror stories haven't disappeared they are just pushed under the rug. If it's so bad that the local authorities are left to deal with it, you may hear about it. You can't post negative reviews on Airbnb.

    Airbnb is not a sharing service since you are not required to live with current occupants and takes advantage of the increased costs of regulations which it does not abide with and wipes it's hands from all and any responsibility when things go terribly wrong. Airbnb pretends to be a listing service but implicates itself in every aspect of the business which milks every possible penny and extracts itself from any form of responsibility. I don't know why anyone needed a report to point this out if an individual acted this way people would say that they were running a scam.

    --
    DRM? No thanks, I'll just get it somewhere else...
  10. Piece Work by shayd2 · · Score: 2
    Piece Work jobs (ABnB, Uber, Lyft et. al) will cause a race to the bottom

    We've seen this struggle a century or so back.

    People will, eventually, unionize to establish livable wages

  11. 'Gig' Economy vs Full-Time business by Marc_Hawke · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The thing I've always 'disliked' about 'room-sharing' and 'ride-sharing' (and I guess to some extent E-bay and Youtube) is that people make it a full-time job instead of a 'community' thing.

    I don't remember the taxi company complaining about the 'ride-sharing' board at the University. If you were going home for the weekend, why not take along a passenger that was going the same way. In general that's the basic idea of Uber and Lyft. I have a car, you're going my way, hop in.

    There was also the 'couch-surfing' phenomenon of a while back. The differences between that and what AirBnB is now are what I see as the problem. It's one thing to allow someone to spend the night in your empty guest room because nobody else is using it. It's a completely different thing to buy a room/ apartment/ house dedicated to having people pay to stay there.

    The 'problem' with Uber and AirBnB is that people have transformed the 'occasionality' of it into a permanent full-time job. It's not a sporadic and almost random thing they offer, it's 'the only thing.'

    --
    --Welcome to the Realm of the Hawke--
  12. That is not the main reason by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Informative

    ABnB works because ad-hoc rooms are cheaper than standard hotel rooms.

    The reason it works is for lots of reasons, that is the last of them. I have often paid more for an AirBnB unit than I would have for the nearest hotel.

    Often you can find AirBnB units closer to where you want to be than most hotels, or in a more desirable location.

    AirBNB units will generally have kitchens and washing machines, both of which may be very hard to find at any price just looking at hotels.

    AirBNB units being housing, are often more secure than hotels and I don't have to worry about an entire staff with keycards being able to access my room, or being targeted by thieves because they know tourists stay at hotels.

    Do we need to reduce regulation on hotels so they can better compete with ABnB?

    That would help but I would still prefer an AirBnB unit if I could get one, over a hotel. Unfortunately because of restrictive regulation, most AirBnB units I've tried getting in large cities (mainly SF and NYC) have always been canceled so I can't take that risk anymore. In smaller markets they have been great though and really been much nicer than hotels.

    and there was a practical shortage of hotels which drove prices too high?

    One last note on this, it does not have to be a shortage of rooms or hotels - the last year or two the Apple Developer conference (WWDC) was in San Fransisco, the hotels decided to collude on higher prices - by that I mean 2-4x above normal rates for that time of year, because they knew they had a captive market for people who wanted to be around Moscone. I'm not 100% sure but it could be a reason Apple finally moved the conference to San Jose.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:That is not the main reason by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

      the hotels decided to collude on higher prices - by that I mean 2-4x above normal rates for that time of year,

      It doesn't take collusion for all the hotels in an area to individually recognize periods of high demand and respond with higher rates. And it isn't just for the WWDC.

  13. But why is that a problem? by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    The 'problem' with Uber and AirBnB is that people have transformed the 'occasionality' of it into a permanent full-time job.>

    But only if you want to - I have stayed at a number of AirBnB places where it was not a full time job, they just rented out a room for a bit more money...

    Meanwhile, what is so bad about people who bought places just to rent out? It takes a huge amount of capital to build a hotel, or even run a "real" BnB. But now someone who wants to just dip their toe into running a place to stay can do so through AirBnB, and see if that works for them.

    I have a friend who bought a mountain house specifically for use with AirBnB. It's great because they can stay in it when they like, or loan it out to friends - meanwhile the AirBnB rentals are paying for the whole thing, and in the end they have a second house in the mountains. Just what exactly is terrible about that?

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  14. Rent is the AirBnB of ownership by Pfhorrest · · Score: 2

    I say this every time, but it's worth repeating: all this bad stuff AirBnB does to the rental market, the existence of a rental market at all does to the housing market overall. Owners prefer AirBnB over long term rental which makes long term rental unaffordable. Owners also prefer rental of any kind over sale which makes homeownership unaffordable. Imagine a world where all you can find is ridiculously overpriced temporary housing at AirBnB rates? We live in a world like that already, where all you can find is ridiculously overpriced housing at rental rates.

    Ban rent, and watch housing become more affordable.

    (NB that interest is merely rent on money, so that's got to go too or else it's just the banks instead of the landlords who end up owning the world. Rent and interest, collectively "usury", the fee for a use, are the central failing of capitalism, the mechanism by which wealth concentrates exponentially, undermining the promise of a free market with parasitism by the capital-owners).

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    1. Re:Rent is the AirBnB of ownership by cmseagle · · Score: 2

      Ban rent, and watch housing become more affordable.

      There are reasons to rent other than being unable to afford to purchase. Short term commitment, less exposure to fluctuations in home prices, and a much lower barrier to entry. All of these things are ideal if you're feeling out an area before settling down, or if you're at a point in your life where you're chasing new jobs every few years looking for a raise.

      And if you want to ban interest, how do you propose you find a lender to supply the mortgage on your new home? Do you live with your parents until you've saved up the cash to buy a property outright? I suppose you could rent a property but if that's banned too...

    2. Re:Rent is the AirBnB of ownership by cmseagle · · Score: 2

      sell to an institution who will do so for them.

      I think that's what almost every buyer would have to do, since they couldn't afford the risk that the buyer defaults and stops making the payments on which they're now relying to pay for their housing.

      That 'institution' couldn't be expected to provide this service for free, though. They would have to charge some sort of fee to be cover the administrative overhead, and to cover the losses they might incur on the small percentage of properties where the owner defaults and the value of the property has decreased. Because the magnitude of the risk scales with the amount that is owed, that fee would probably be assessed as a percentage of the amount owed on the property. And of course the faster the buyer completes the purchase, the lower the overall fee should be because this institution has their money in limbo for a shorter period of time and is thus less likely to make a loss.

      So, in the end we have an institution who has purchased the property on behalf of the buyer, and then collects regular payments which cover both the the purchase of the property and a fee computed as a percentage of the outstanding balance that covers the risk to the institution. See where I'm going with this? Without even getting into opportunity cost of fronting the money to buy the property, we find ourselves with a 'institution' (ie bank) that collects payments that go towards principal and interest.

    3. Re:Rent is the AirBnB of ownership by cmseagle · · Score: 2

      Whoops - meant to reply to your second point as well

      Buying and selling a property isn't a frictionless transaction. I'm a big fan of the NYT Rent vs Buy calculator. If you're going to stay in a place for 5 years or fewer, you can pay quite a lot in rent before it starts making sense to buy, even with optimistic estimates of home value growth.

  15. Re:It doesn't sound right... by Solandri · · Score: 2

    You cannot gentrify globally. Not enough gentry, I'd say.

    Yes you can. In fact that's the whole point of a market economy - to make money (increase productivity per capita) by improving the efficiency by which resources (including housing and labor) are assigned and used. We used to live in stone caves with dirt floors. Now most of us live in constructed homes where we feel compelled to buy vacuum cleaners to keep the floors clean. That's gentrification.

    Economics is not a zero sum game. You can find localized instances where it's zero sum or negative sum due to manipulation by market winners (e.g. monopolies) or overzealous regulation (e.g. rent control). But on balance, increased trade means increased productivity per capita, and a higher average standard of living. Where do you think the middle class came from? Before, it used to be just peasants and nobles.

  16. Landlords can't increase rent by Solandri · · Score: 2

    Sellers can't increase prices. They can ask for a higher price, but they won't make any sales unless there are customers willing to pay the higher price.

    Likewise, buyers can't decrease prices. They can wait for a lower price, but they won't be able to buy the item they want unless sellers begin to panic at lack of sales and lower their asking price.

    This is the greatest check and balance in economics. The person wanting higher prices can't raise them. The person wanting lower prices can't lower them. They each have to wait for someone opposed to them to meet their price. So the only way landlords can do what you accuse them of, is if there are tenants willing to go along with them and pay them for it. And if there are customers willing to pay that much for crappy housing, then it indicates you have other structural problems (excess demand, inadequate supply to meet that demand) which need to be dealt with.

    i.e. Higher rents are a symptom, not the problem.

  17. Phoenix has all these problems by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    and it has zero rent control and almost zero regulations on building new houses. When Builders build they're building luxury houses because they're surprisingly cheap to build and much higher profit.

    It's got nothing to do with Rent Control or supply. The cities where this is a problem (San Francisco, Phoenix, Dallas, Seattle etc) are already out of land. They're being forced to build out further and further from where jobs are, resulting in 90+ minute commutes one way if you want affordable housing. The only way supply could be increased is if the city tears down single homes and replaces them with high rise apartments. But you can't really raise a family in those. Not the kind of families that can meet replacement birth rates

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  18. on the other hand... by buddyglass · · Score: 4, Interesting

    ...I was able to stay two weeks in NYC with my family (2 adults, 2 kids) in a clean 1200 sq. foot. two-bedroom apartment in Washington Heights for $120/night. Comparable hotel would have cost me $300/night at least. And my (14 nights * $120/night) went mostly into the hands of an actual family living in NYC (two public school teachers with 2 kids of their own) instead of, say, "Hilton" or "Marriot".

  19. Valid for the entire sharing economy by XSportSeeker · · Score: 2

    Get a popular service, find a way to go around regulations, taxation and obstables put in place to stop overgrowth and abuses, find a way to skip welfare and minimum wage/conditions for workers to make a living with it, and sell it as a new paradigm.

    There is no easy route or shortcut for this people. If you are paying less to stay somewhere, paying less for transportation, paying less for services in general, someone is paying more. And there will be consequences for that.

    It's no coincidence that some workers on those sectors are living in conditions reminiscent to the Industrial Revolution era. Crazy hours not enough to even make a living.

    And yes, I fully agree that regulations are far from perfect, that they often don't do what they are supposed to, and that they frequently compose of abuse themselves for business owners... but skipping them away or going around them will eventually have predicted consequences.