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Reddit Admits Russian Trolls Got Into Website During 2016 Election (vice.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from VICE News: Reddit says it has identified and removed hundreds of Russian propaganda accounts, a few days after reports revealed that Russian trolls were active on the platform during the 2016 U.S. presidential election. In a post Monday, Reddit co-founder Steve Huffman said his site operators had been investigating for awhile and had found a few hundred accounts suspected to be of Russian origin or linked to known sources of Russian propaganda. "Of course, every account we find expands our search a little more," he said, also claiming the "vast majority" of the suspicious accounts were banned back in 2015-2016. An even bigger challenge was the problem of "indirect propaganda," where content produced by accounts now known to be Russian trolls was enthusiastically shared by Trump supporters on subreddits such as r/The_Donald. Reddit's investigation followed a report from The Daily Beast, based on leaked internal data from Kremlin-backed troll farm the Internet Research Agency, that confirmed Russian trolls were active on the site, as well as Tumblr, in their mission to spread disinformation, divide Americans and disrupt U.S. politics. The Washington Post reports that congressional investigators looking into the Russian issue intend to question Reddit and Tumblr over their involvement.
I agree with you BTW. Let's not forget that America's CIA has been doing the same thing via different channels for decades. They are perhaps still doing this to this day.
Where's the media outrage? There is an article here affirming trolling by the USA.
USA complains because they can now be beaten [on the cheap] at their own game.
Require a valid SS# to sign up and pull a soft credit check to verify it's an actual person. Now that wasn't so fucking hard, was it? #WeCreateOurOwnProblems #MAGA #LockHerUp
Damn, son, that kool aid taste good?
Denial is not a river in egypt. Trump is sketchy. Facts.
I was a lifelong straight ticket Democrat voter until 2016.
The Russians didn't make me vote for Trump.
Hillary Clinton, CNN, Jimmy Kimmel, HuffPo, WaPo, MSNBC, Madonna, etc, etc, etc made me vote for Trump.
They were so god damn smug, condescending, elitist, insulting, divisive, and arrogant... It made Trump's personality flaws look endearing in comparison, and voting for him was my big "fuck you".
No. The Russians didn't divide us. The Democrats and their media stooge propagandists did. Fuck them all to hell. I will never vote Democrat ever again, even though I disagree profoundly with the Republicans on most issues.
Speak for yourself, cupcake.
> On the first topic, ads, there is not much to share. We don’t see a lot of ads from Russia, either before or after the 2016 election, and what we do see are mostly ads promoting spam and ICOs. Presently, ads from Russia are blocked entirely, and all ads on Reddit are reviewed by humans. Moreover, our ad policies prohibit content that depicts intolerant or overly contentious political or cultural views.
> As for direct propaganda, that is, content from accounts we suspect are of Russian origin or content linking directly to known propaganda domains, we are doing our best to identify and remove it. We have found and removed a few hundred accounts, and of course, every account we find expands our search a little more. The vast majority of suspicious accounts we have found in the past months were banned back in 2015–2016 through our enhanced efforts to prevent abuse of the site generally.
That does not sound as sinister as what is being reported here this morning.
Seriously Russia, internet trolls & elections??
Clearly the more we hear about this the more false it is. After all, who has an interest to spread such lies? The west! -With their anti-Russian propoganda.
You see if the US/CIA blame Russia for Trump being elected then uhm...that means his election wasn;t meddling or collusion but an inside job by the intelligence community that seem to hate Trump...hmmm.
Maybe it isn't all Anti-Trump/Anti-Russia BS. Maybe we're just finding more EVEIDENCE.
But hey what does evidence have to do with anything? Just think who you support and make sure you have an explanation as to why your side of the argument is right.
Of course Obama was the real reason for all these issues...I won't even mention the orange baboon's porn star hush money, the multiple ex-wives, the unnamed children, the many days at the golf course, the multiple indictments or backchannel ties to Russia. It's all propoganda by Clinton to cleverly hide her emails.
Remember; Trump does not even know what "This Russia thing" is even about but he does state many times that "There is no collusion." & "There was no collusion."
But nevermind cause some dimmwitted fools and shills are gonna quickly label me as a gun hating SJW democratians. Which ironically even if true does not change evidence or truth. -Shooting the messenger is a Trump game. (Lying Ted, Crooked Hillary etc)
A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
We the public, hear the words.... Trump, Russia, Mueller.... We stop listening. Nobody cares. Move on... Seriously.
Translation:
I, a hard core Republican Stalwart, facing the crimes of Trump and Russia, put my hands over my ears and start shrieking like a toddler because I never moved on from Kindergarten.
HTH. HAND. EYW.
Speak for yourself. I do care, very much.
No of us Americans care! The Baseball game is more interesting. Go team!
I still haven't heard Hillary deny any of the information posted by Wikileaks.
What reddit didn't say, but is obvious to anyone who happens to spend time on the site, is that it is nothing but agendas being pushed. That site has been manipulated since the beginning. Just try posting something counter to reddit's "sacred cows" in the popular subreddits. You'll either be censored, or de facto censored by the downvote brigade.
Emboldened Russians will meddle even more in the next election.
Low turn out in the off year primaries in just a few states decides the fate of the whole nation.
Combine the Democratic and the Republican primaries and let the top two go for general election. In most red states two Republicans will run for the same seat. Though Democrats will suffer in the short term, there is some chance sanity will return and Republicans will stop fearing being primaried from the right.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Data disagrees with your assessment. For example, according to this poll http://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2018/images/02/26/rel3c.-.russia.pdf approximately 58% of Americans don't think that the administration is taking Russian interference seriously enough. And a large fraction of Americans support the Mueller investigation to completion although curiously about 40% of Americans don't even know who he is https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/poll-most-americans-want-robert-mueller-to-complete-his-russia-probe. It is a mistake to think that because you and the people around you think something that that view must be universal.
We the public, hear the words.... Trump, Russia, Mueller.... We stop listening. Nobody cares. Move on... Seriously.
We the public choose to be mindless drones that don't give a fuck if our democratic institutions are manipulated, discredited, and which hostile governments are interfering in our system and using mass propaganda to sway public opinion, because we already have become mindless drones that click and share every link that confirms our preconceived notions. Who really cares if its fake or not, as long as it confirms my biases. As mindless drones, we only care about the dopamine kick, if Putin decides to sponsor it by sharing fresh news on Hillary's undies, who cares. Mindless drone needs more food, badly.
AND STOP BRINGING YOUR DAMN POLITICAL TROLLING TO SLASHDOT.
Stop trying to stir up trouble, we donâ(TM)t come here for politics,
Submitter, go back to reddit, shoo or twitter
The investigation will disappear in a puff of greasy smoke.
Eventually. After the pundits find something else interesting to hype.
That wannabe Facebook clone run by a bunch of muppets.
We do plan to move on.... #BlueMidterm
And we presume, you speak for Anonymous Coward.
Are you a West Cost Troll, or an East Coast Troll? Which? We need to know so we can tabulate your group's infiltration of the discussion. Your nationality matters, you know....
We have it on record. All two or three of the Anonymous Cowards spamming this discussion care. Very much.
Trump continues trolling dems very successfully by trash-tweating them into distracting pointless investigations.
Completely invisible to public is a spectacular economy jumpstart in 2017 fueled solely by a Republican winning the WH and even more in 2018 (never mind market corrections, they happen all the time). Trump could go out as the worst president in history or he could go out as OK president.
I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
Doubt it will ever happen:
Slashdot Admits Russian Trolls Got into Website Before 2016 Election
Slashdot Admits Russian Trolls Got into Website During 2016 Election
Slashdot Admits Russian Trolls Got into Website After 2016 Election
Damn, son, that kool aid taste good?
Denial is not a river in egypt. Trump is sketchy. Facts.
BULLSHIT
Just plain BULLSHIT
After more than a year, in an investigation that leaks like a sieve, there's been NOTHING leaked about actual evidence of Trump colluding with Russians in any way.
And remember this - there probably aren't ten people on the planet who are FOR Trump - it's just that the alternative was a LOT worse.
Get fucked, Trumptard
Trump is obsessed with the Russia investigation and continually enraged by it, so I doubt he is intentionally pushing the investigation to continue.
Only far-left deranged imbeciles still think collision happened. [...] The rest of us figured out it was Democrat propaganda and moved on.
So close and yet so far!
Here, let me help you out...
1. There is plenty of evidence that Russian trolls tried to interfere in the election. The strategy was to play both sides off against each other. We don't know, and probably will never know, if it made a difference to the election or not.
2. There is no evidence of collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia. There was enough suggestive evidence to start an investigation, and the investigation has not turned up any evidence. (This is where you are correct. We're way past "collusion".)
3. There is plenty of evidence that some people in the Trump campaign and/or administration tried to block or otherwise interfere with the investigation. This, by itself, is criminal. (This is where the person you responded to was correct. "Trump is sketchy.")
Now do try to keep up, son.
Russian shill detected. You have earned your rubles today, comrade.
I have visited the Official Reddit Forum for an online game. It is a forum moderated by employees of said online game. It's plain to anybody who observes that the whole function of operating that forum is to 'soak up all of the oxygen' of discussion surrounding that game. The discussion is vigorously steered by the mods of the forum.
Sure, unofficial subreddits could be formed, and people could have frank discussions of the game on other forums, but it's a PVP mmo and the people who care really don't have time to be out finding forums for the game. It's even more constrained on the actual official game forums, of course, where a 'female' mod flounces through from time to time being the 'soft' mod in the discussion.
I suspect the 'Official' subreddit is a sponsored operation. It's a game with that sort of people operating it.
I do not understand why the world does not return the favour.. I am sure a few photos of put in with an animal companion in time for the elections.. be creative people. nothing teaches a rumors monger a lesson faster than a few rumours about themselves
OMFG! They found TROLLS on Reddit!
After posting a story about the surprising discovery that water is wet, BeauHD will post a story about the probability of ursine defecation in forested regions.
It appears half of Obama's cabinet were taking bribes from Russia to approve sale of Uranium One. Clinton taking the majority with $145 million in bribes to her and her interests, while Muller covered up that Russia was bribing half the government to get the sale approved. Funny how he is the one now investigating Russian interference and can't seem to find any that he was involved with.
While we also have ACTUAL PROOF of Russian interference with a dossier that Clinton had them write up to justify Obama wiretapping Trump Tower during the election, illegally at that. The entire leadership of the DOJ/ FBI/ and State Department were involved with it, including even the UN Ambassador at the time.
Yes, Russia has been interfering and bribing government officials. Funny thing is they were working with the ones accusing other of working with the Russians.
And the Russian Trolls - like the ones on Fox News (Sean Hannity works for the Russians) - want to talk about Monica Lewinsky. Like Clinton is still President.
And the hilarious thing is that during the '16 elections, the Republican super PACs were saying voting for Clinton was voting for Whitehouse controversy and distractions.
Boy, did those morons get it wrong!!
We the public choose to not allow the entire political agenda to be steered by the shrieking minority who lost the election.
Nobody cares about Hillary Clinton's underwear (esp. Bill, btw). We do care about rampant corruption. Which is being ignored during all this deflection about 'Russian collusion'. Also, because it doesn't matter, the foul Clinton Machine was defeated.
The internet is global. Maybe someone should inform out journalists?
#EconomyGoingWell
#BlueStreakOnThePavement
When will slashdot admit they are overrun with Russia shills
Hillary and Bernie weren't sketchy, right?
Get *all* your facts straight, "son"
Ah yes, the one thing that is a pretty sure bet whenever Russia comes up in the news in a none positive way is whataboutism.
I half joke when I say, I can make an ad like McAffee's video and say "I'm a PRO-LIFE, PRO-GUN, LOW-TAX Republican!" and the Republican base would vote for me just because I have an 'R' by my name.
The Democratic candidate could be the Second Coming but the Republicans just won't vote for him.
The child molester Roy Moore almost won in Alabama. Just because too many folks will not vote for a "baby killing Democrat who will be beholden to Nancy Pelosi and her San Francisco ways." - that is how John Osssoff lost.
Reddit is predominantly white and male. Trump's supporters are predominantly white and male. It stands to reason they would be highly active on reddit as they are on other forums like 4chan, and so on. Yet if you listen to Steve Huffman he seems to act like they are a minority on the site and any activity must be Russian Trolls. It just doesn't seem likely.
These CEOs want us to believe they have these brilliant investigative skills into this mythical army of russian trolls, yet they can't cover their own traces when they manipulate votes, edit people's posts or alter algorithms to favor political forums they agree with.
Here's what you don't get: there is an entire class of 'junior citizens' who believe every word of it. They and their ancestors have had little education other than what the federal government provides and are predisposed to believe anything they hear from an authority (such as the news media) says. They are a growing segment of the population, while your class is a shrinking segment.
They are going to replace your segment of the population with their sheer numbers and the lies they've been trained to believe will become a societal standard for your own belief and behavior, if not yours, then your descendants.
Nobody cares. Move on... Seriously.
Your attitude is unforgiveable. You see that lies are being spread wide and far by pervasive institutions...and your response is to IGNORE IT. As though it never entered into your imagination that lies breed conflict as their primary function. Have you grown up in a small box? You really believe you are so insulated from reality?
Well then you'll no doubt end up getting what you deserve. Hopefully the morons like you don't sink the ship for the rest of us who have the sense first to care, and then to realize what is going on here, and then to actually do something about it.
What was the point in banning the account when on Reddit you just create another username and you're away again? You don't even have to bother with all the hassle of creating another email address for verification. Bans on Reddit are as much use as a chocolate fireguard.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
Those in the US having profited from Russian trolls will be somewhere between downplay and straight denial.
We the public, hear the words.... Trump, Russia, Mueller.... We stop listening. Nobody cares. Move on... Seriously.
Wouldn't that be nice? Looks like you identified a new attack vector. Enough news about it and you will say I'm bored, so do what ever you want.
Your post has indicted that you are completely manipulable. I kinda hope you are at least a Russian troll, and not an American who will just accept anything because you are tired hearing about it.
Or perhaps just a Trumpster.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
remember that on websites like Reddit, anyone who expresses an opposing view will be rolled up in the same bunch, the "internet trolls", or "russian shills".
Don't take the whole tripe about russian trolls and propaganda so seriously. It involves anyone who doesn't agree with the status quo and dares say it on the internet.
Rather confused by why this narative keeps coming up on Slashdot but more importantly why is it a "bad" thing? Reddit like other social media sites are supposed to be about sharing. Sharing ideas, stories, cat pics, whatever. There should be no difference between Russian, American or any other group utalizing the platform for communication... unless of course your entire platform is a farce.
The analogy here is putting a band poster up on a wall. Whereas traditionally you'd need to spend money and resources to reach even tiny markets (including having physical boots on the ground), these sites allow that to happen from anywhere in the world and with almost impunity. They don't even have to expend resources on marketing since it's all built into the sites platforms with extreme accuracy. This is why in the fuck we have residency requirements on things like voting.
It Reddit's case for example, it's quite simple. Their scoring system allowed posts to be promoted into the faces of people whom would otherwise not have ever seen them. But unlike a band poster, you can't just ignore them nor do they fade with time.
More censorship isn't going to solve this any more then CC TV cameras. The platforms themselves don't give users any control over what they see or how their data is used any more then moving to another neighbourhood does.
Where's the media outrage?
More like, WHERE'S THE PUBLIC OUTRAGE?
Where's the armed revolution?
Isn't that pretty much the normal state of things there?
Son, there are already guilty pleas. The fuck you smoking?
Hillary Lost!
More than a year later, some people just can't get over it. How can the smartest woman who ever walked the Earth lose to Donald Trump? Yeah, it must be the Russian trolls!
Tune in to the latest news on the ongoing epidemic of Trump Derangement Syndrome, right here, every day, on slashdot.org!
If anonymous troll posts on social media are all that's required to change votes, it doesn't sound like the electorate is terribly intelligent.
So the left is simply upset that the wrong type of propaganda is winning?
So every Russian user speaking English on twitter and reddit that has opinions that aren't "politically correct" is a government agent sent to disrupt American discourse....somehow.
Meanwhile our own government has a proven history of infiltrating any and all institutions they want to in order to spread propaganda and subvert "politically incorrect" groups and movements.
Meanwhile mass surveillance is proven: everything they can decrypt (not hard with broken implementations and backdoored hardware), everything unencrypted (such as locational metadata from your cell phone, credit card records, etc.) are collected and stored permanently for endless data mining.
1 + 1 = the government is spying on us in order to develop more effective models of propaganda, and that is the source of the divide in this country.
So sorry, life is not as comfy as you wish it was. Far past time to do something about this mess, from outside the bounds of law if necessary, as seems inevitable.
Papirosa, of course.
When will slashdot admit they have been overrun by Russian trolls?
With the Murrican media acting as propaganda channel for democrats, Russians managed to make American elections more fair. You should be grateful.
> ... had found a few hundred accounts suspected to be of Russian origin ...
Wtf? I am pretty sure there are more than a few hundred reddit accounts of Russian origin. They probably meant linked to Russian government. It is like saying they found a few hundred accounts linked to Muslims, when they meant linked to Islamic terrorism.
I am of Russian origin, and I am getting pretty fucking tired of this hysteria.
But what about Stormy Daniels!?!?!
Hey cum guzzler, The DNC was CAUGHT RED HANDED SCREWING CRAZY BERNIE OUT OF THE PRIMARY.
I mean its not even up for debate. The DNC fucked over AMERICAN CITIZENS by actively discourging Crazy Bernie.
Where is your outrage for something we CAN PROVE!
The First Amendment covers all people, not just Citizens. So a Russian trying to influence the election is no different than an American trying to get people to vote for that cunt Clinton.
No crimes against the election process were committed. The indictments were for ID theft. Big deal. Americans do that to.
Fucking liberals acting blind.
Watch the phrasing used by people as they delicately attempt to be accepted by their fellow redditors. Any hint that they don't conform will be immediately corrected. "...but I personally don't believe in a diety." If you don't believe that brainwashing is a thing, take a look at reddit. If someone admits to their "redditor" status I can list 10 things, 9 or 10 of which the "redditor" will admit they strongly believe.
They were very quick to ban people spreading real info...not so much Russians who were putting their guy in the Whitehouse.
Where is the "whataboutism"? This isn't "whataboutism", but a "pot, meet kettle" situation. You want the world to care about election meddling that allegedly happened in your country? Well, show us how you're different, uncover, stop and apologize for your own meddling and then we'll consider. Unless you do that, just shut up, you whiny bunch of hypocrites.
For collusion? So far I see a few admissions of guilt for failing to report overseas financial assets from 5+ years ago, and for stating a meeting happened in August when it happened in September. Other than that? Not much...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
There are always trolls.
Reddit is covering to justify their massive partisan censorship campaign. They censored to silence anyone with an opinion contrary to the party line. This is what happened. Now they are just using this story as justification for their actions. It is McCarthyism. They silenced and blacklisted people claiming it was the Russians. Utter bullshit and I'm happy to call them out on it.
You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
He's probably voting for the party that he disagrees with because the propaganda is even more important. There is nothing that separates Democrats and Republicans that is more important than our policy, and even our elections, being driven by propaganda. He voted for the candidate that is the beneficiary of less propaganda. He voted for the candidate who (he thought, incorrectly) would change the system so that propaganda and money don't drive policy and elect candidates.
Foreigners interfering in elections isn't an 'act of war' though, otherwise Mexico would have declared war on the US each time a Mexican citizen illegally voted in a US election.
The individual foreigner voting is breaking US law, but the country they come from isn't declaring war on the US.
And before you say 'Non citizens voting doesn't happen, you racist!' yeah, it does
https://empowertexans.com/arou...
While the National Voter Registration Act (NVRA) requires local election officials to maintain accurate voter rolls, it also made it easier for non-citizens to get on the rolls by mandating that states offer voter registration by mail and at driver's license offices. Registering to vote is now an honor system, with no documentation required and no one verifying citizenship -- applicants merely check a box affirming they're U.S. citizens.
Birdwell asked Ingram what mechanisms the Secretary of State or county voter registration officials have to ensure that non-citizens aren't registering to vote. "Only the jury summons," Ingram responded. State law requires jury clerks to report to elections officials all individuals who claim an exemption to jury duty because they are not citizens.
"The Secretary of State's office's only way to ensure non-citizens aren't voting is the random sampling of a jury duty summons?" Birdwell asked.
"That is correct," Ingram replied.
If a non-citizen never gets summoned to jury duty or doesn't respond to a summons, Birdwell asked, "you have no mechanism to correct that wrong?"
"That's right," Ingram confirmed.
"We have no active method [to ensure non-citizens aren't registering to vote]. We depend on the self-reporting of the individual," Birdwell concluded. "That is a significant problem."
Texas Scorecard reported on those findings last month. A brief survey of four Texas counties found that in just the past two years, 165 unlawfully registered non-citizens were removed from those counties' voter rolls -- but only after they self-identified as non-citizens in the process of recusing themselves from jury duty. Those non-citizens cast 100 illegal votes.
Worse, the AG's investigators found that "the process for removing ineligible voters who self-report as non-citizens at jury duty is not being followed correctly, or even at all, in various counties."
Curious is it not how when a few Russians spend a few hundred thousand dollars in an election where the total spending was $6.5 billion that means Russia committed an 'act of war' against the US and anyone who disagrees is a traitor. When only 834,000 non citizens vote in a US election, that's not enough to explain Hillary's popular vote lead so we should ignore it. And that demanding people provide proof of citizenship before they buy Facebook ads is something the US must do to protect the integrity of its elections but trying to prevent hundreds of thousands of non citizens voting is racist.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
I don't know about "they", but the media said Trump would lose badly. They were counting on the bandwagon effect. They over-played it, and convinced their own side that they didn't need to vote. She had it in the bag.
You cannot obstruct justice without intent.
There was no collusion crime, thus there was no intent to hide or obstruct a crime... It's really fucking simple, you fucking imbecile.
He needs to name the accounts. Then we can evaluate how much effect they had.
Voter ID would be a fine thing if it was really intended to prevent voter fraud and would work to do so. It's not. It's intended as a way to make it harder for poor people to vote, so that fewer votes are cast for the opponents of those who're promoting Voter ID.
It's not intended to be racist of course. It's intended to be a strike against those living in poor neighborhoods, who can't afford the expense of proving their citizenship and the time off work or away from family needed to jump through the Voter ID hoops.
It's easy to do something about people buying Facebook ads. Doing this will help improve election integrity. This is a good use of resources since it costs next to nothing and hurts no legitimate voters. Voter ID would be expensive, difficult, and would disenfranchise more valid voters than it would prevent illegal voters. It's a crap solution that breaks more than it fixes, and doesn't deserve the effort it would require.
far left leaning liberal progressive
I've followed The_Donald since early 2016 as a hostile observer and it is clear to me that they don't know what any of these words mean. Not in the political sense.
Almost the entire Democratic party is centrist. Google "new democrats". Bill Clinton set them on this path. The party has become both neoliberal (free-market capitalist) and neoconservative (American exceptionalism, interventionist foreign policy).
They are very much NOT leftist, NOT liberal, NOT progressive. Those words have all become meaningless, because people are still using them to describe the Democrats, when they are very much none of those things any more.
No, not Trump. You. Keep digging that Russian Hacking hole. Keep believing.
None of it's true of course, or at least none of it is true in the way you want it to be true.
The end result is that you're just going to be in more psychological distress when nothing comes of it.
Trump will get 7 more years. You'd better get used to the idea.
Foreigners interfering in elections isn't an 'act of war' though, otherwise Mexico would have declared war on the US each time a Mexican citizen illegally voted in a US election.
No you don't get it. The howaboutism states that it is okay for Russians to interfer with American elections bvecause Americans interfer with Russian elections. Thos are puoprposeful acts, and believe me brother I declare those acts of war.
And since you continue to engage in howaboutism, I suggest you move to Russia, or wherever it is that suits your hoawboutism. You can call me a hypocrite if you wish, but regard this, if I were in power, and you were in Moscow, you would be enjoying a very early, hot and short summer.
Awating your next howaboutism, tovarish.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
They didn't "get into" it, as per the headline. They just signed up, as anyone can, and posted. That's the whole point of Reddit.
Anyway, we all know that inside every Russian troll is another, slightly smaller, Russian troll.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Son, there are already guilty pleas. The fuck you smoking?
Getting guilty pleas from liars is a horrible way to build a case for a conspiracy. You can't build a case on the testimony of people you just convicted for lying.
The fact the Mueller has to fall back on such lame charges is pretty good evidence he's got nothing substantial.
'Stand down': How the Obama team blew the response to Russian meddling
This is the second of two excerpts adapted from Russian Roulette: The Inside Story of Putin’s War on America and the Election of Donald Trump (Twelve Books) by Michael Isikoff, Chief Investigative Correspondent for Yahoo News, and David Corn, Washington bureau chief of Mother Jones. It will be released on March 13.
...
Then Brennan turned to an even more sensitive issue: Russia’s interference in the American election. Brennan was now aware that at least a year earlier Russian hackers had begun their cyberattack on the Democratic National Committee. ...
This was the first of several warnings that the Obama administration would send to Moscow. But the question of how forcefully to respond would soon divide the White House staff, pitting the National Security Council’s top analysts for Russia and cyber issues against senior policymakers within the administration. It was a debate that would culminate that summer with a dramatic directive from Obama’s national security adviser to the NSC staffers developing aggressive proposals to strike back against the Russians: “Stand down.”
It's not like David Corn has a goal of protecting Donald Trump...
Yeah, my friends from Chile say the same thing.
I mean, so what if we violently overthrow peaceful democracies? Deal with the issue at hand!
Thos are puoprposeful acts, and believe me brother I declare those acts of war.
Yeah but they're not. I realise that since you don't care about spelling and grammar you also probably don't care about legal niceties but everyone else does.
Awating your next howaboutism, tovarish.
It's whataboutism and tovarishch
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
So, you're cool with lying to the government. Gotcha.
What you mean is that you think stopping Russians from buying FB ads will help your party (spoilers:it won't) whereas stopping non citizens voting would hurt it.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
What can I say? Illegal voting is the only way Republicans can win in Texas.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Christ, you are an insufferable dullard.
How about you just STFU for once. Nobody wants to read you whine about the "evil Russians". Not even your whore mother.
This has really been a strange turn of events. Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, Google.... they all started with at least some degree of the "information wants to be free" ethos. They created platforms that would allow anyone to speak for any reason. Sure, trolls were an issue - as they have been since the days of BBS and USENET. Slashdot came up with a method for handling it with moderation and meta moderation. Others created similarly soft-handed techniques.
And where are we now? These same folks are looking to control the point of view of the content that gets posted on their platforms. Reddit is hunting accounts because of their motivation for speaking (they are Russian propagandists). Facebook and Twitter are looking for ways to prevent "fake news" - which is dangerously close to "opinions I disagree with" - and Google? Well, they had a motto of "do no evil", now their chairman has founded "the Groundwork", a company designed to do what the Russians are accused of and a whole lot more, with hooks directly into the back-end of Google. Of course this is different, because it is in the service of Team Blue, not Team Red.
I'd love to see all of the people who are so adamant about doing these things go back to 1998 and explain it to their younger selves. They might cut their own throats rather than contribute to the future they are creating - everything about it is anathema to everything they stood for back then. Heck, go back to the 80's or 70's and explain all this to a country that used to ridicule the Soviet Union for trying to prevent outside news and jamming "Radio Free America". Now here we are, desperately working to do the same thing.
I come for the girls and the free food.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Thos are puoprposeful acts, and believe me brother I declare those acts of war.
Yeah but they're not. I realise that since you don't care about spelling and grammar you also probably don't care about legal niceties but everyone else does.
You see, it all depenedds on hoo is in powur. Unless you are in powur, you can whine and moan about what others decide, and it won't make a bit of difference.
This speling issue you have wit me, thakns for letwing mi no it iz gettnig ndur you sken. Seriously Boris, troll better, or else risk a visit to the black dolphin.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
It's ironic that illegal voting appears to be one of the ways Democrats try to win... Like objectively and demonstrably, yet your mindfuck gymnastics somehow lets you believe it's a Republican thing.
Kind of seems like cause for action, no?
Are you just going to sit around as every aspect of discourse is conformed to the same model?
Bullshit. All the polls say that Hispanics are much more likely to vote Democrat than Republican. Which is why the Republicans want voter ID laws and Democrats say they're racist.
http://www.pewresearch.org/fac...
As Congress debates immigration reform, some political leaders and analysts have speculated that there will be "an electoral bonanza for Democrats" if the nation's estimated 11.1 million unauthorized immigrants -- three quarters of whom are Hispanics -- eventually are granted the right to vote.
While there's no way of knowing if these predictions are accurate, the data provide some insights. In 2012, the Pew Research Center's National Survey of Latinos found that among Latino immigrants who are not U.S. citizens or legal permanent residents (and therefore likely unauthorized immigrants), some 31% identify as Democrats and just 4% as Republicans. An additional 33% say they are political independents, 16% mention some other political party and 15% say they "don't know" or refuse to answer the question.
When one takes party "leaners" into account (i.e., those who don't say they identify with one of the major parties, but in a follow-up question say they feel closer to one party than the other), about half of unauthorized Hispanic immigrants either identify with (31%) or lean towards (23%) the Democratic Party, while about two-in-ten identify with (4%) or lean towards (15%) the Republican Party. About a quarter (27%) do not identify with or lean towards either party.
Comparing unauthorized immigrant Hispanics with other Hispanic subgroups suggests that as immigrants move closer towards citizenship, it is likely that a greater share of them will identify with one of the major political parties. Our survey found that most legal permanent residents (57%) and foreign-born U.S. citizens (65%) are affiliated with one of the major parties.
Our research has also found a correlation between the amount of time Hispanic immigrants (regardless of legal status) spend in the United States and the share that identifies with a political party. While nearly two-thirds (63%) of Hispanic immigrants who have been in the U.S. at least 15 years identify with one of the two major parties, that share falls to 38% among those who have been in the U.S. for fewer than 15 years.
The predictions about how unauthorized immigrants will vote stem from the fact that among all Latino immigrants who are eligible to vote (i.e. are U.S. citizens) many more identify as Democrats than as Republicans -- 54% versus 11%. And in the 2012 presidential election, according to the National Election Pool, Latino voters favored Democrat Barack Obama over Republican Mitt Romney by 71%-27%. While Democratic candidates have garnered a greater share of the Hispanic vote than Republican candidates in every election over the past three decades, the gap has been narrower in some elections than others. For example, in the 2004 election the gap among Hispanic votes between John Kerry and George W. Bush was only 18 percentage points (58% vs. 40%), compared with the 44 percentage point gap in the 2012 election.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
I always love a good "So, [cognitive dissonance]. Got it."
You really beat the shit out of that poor strawman, moron.
What can I say? Illegal voting is the only way Republicans can win in Texas.
Obviously you've never been to rural Texas before.
I have often thought that one category of Trump supporters is low information voters.
You are a classic example of that.
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Cut out the fucking neo-redbaiting xenophobe crap, guy.
Agree 100%
I don't care how often the narrative is repeeated, it just makes the source less reputable.
Did you know there are quite a lot of Russian illegal immigrants in Texas? I'm serious. If you go to most construction sites in Houston, Dallas, Ft Worth, you will meet some of them.
How do you know the "100" illegal votes that were supposedly cast by immigrants according to your fake article weren't all cast by Russian immigrants voting Republican? You don't, and you know why? Because the State of Texas didn't prosecute those 100 for voting illegally. And by the way, did I mention that the "empowered texas" site is fake news?
The only person prosecuted in the recent past for voting illegally in Texas was a green card holder who supported Republicans and voted for Trump.
http://www.star-telegram.com/n...
You are welcome on my lawn.
It's not really pot calling the kettle black situation. Of course you'd like it to be, but that'd be false equivalence. Russian trolls did a very similar thing during German, French, UK and Italian elections. And all the evidence that is surfacing now is confirming what allegedly anti-Russian people in online communities have long suspected.
Your move - have all of those also interfered in Russia's internal politics? I'm really looking forward to the red herring that will come next.
I've lived in Texas. And the only immigrant who has been prosecuted for illegal voting in Texas has been a Trump supporting Republican.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/0...
You are welcome on my lawn.
Whichever party has the most votes wins.
Except that people who've done research find that non citizens vote overwhelming for the Democrats over Republicans.
https://fs.wp.odu.edu/jrichman...
Here I run some extrapolations based upon the estimates for other elections from my coauthored 2014 paper on non-citizen voting. You can access that paper on the journal website here and Judicial Watch has also posted a PDF. The basic assumptions on which the extrapolation is based are that 6.4 percent of non-citizens voted, and that of the non-citizens who voted, 81.8 percent voted for Clinton and 17.5 percent voted for Trump. These were numbers from our study for the 2008 campaign. Obviously to the extent that critics of my study are correct the first number (percentage of non-citizens who voted) may be too high, and the second number (percentage who voted for Clinton) may be too low.
The count of the popular vote is still in flux as many states have yet to certify official final tallies. Here I used this unofficial tally linked by Real Clear Politics. As of this writing Trump is 2,235,663 votes behind Clinton in the popular vote.
If the assumptions stated above concerning non-citizen turnout are correct, could non-citizen turnout account for Clinton's popular vote margin? There is no way it could have. 6.4 percent turnout among the roughly 20.3 million non-citizen adults in the US would add only 834,318 votes to Clinton's popular vote margin. This is little more than a third of the total margin.
Is it plausible that non-citizen votes added to Clinton's margin. Yes. Is it plausible that non-citizen votes account for the entire nation-wide popular vote margin held by Clinton? Not at all.
800K votes nationally could swing a few states. And in fact this paper on previous elections gives examples of elections where non citizens changed the result of an election
http://www.judicialwatch.org/w...
In spite of substantial public controversy, very little reliable data exists concerning the frequency with which non-citizen immigrants participate in United States elections. Although such participation is a violation of election laws in most parts of the United States, enforcement depends principally on disclosure of citizenship status at the time of voter registration. This study examines participation rates by non-citizens using a nationally representative sample that includes non-citizen immigrants. We find that some non-citizens participate in U.S. elections, and that this participation has been large enough to change meaningful election outcomes including Electoral College votes, and Congressional elections. Non-citizen votes likely gave Senate Democrats the pivotal 60th vote needed to overcome filibusters in order to pass health care reform and other Obama administration priorities in the 111th Congress.
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Except there was no research involved. Nothing but a set of assumptions made by a person and then conclusions made based upon those assumptions with absolutely no data involved. Read your article again, Hal.
Even President Trump's much-vaunted super-special commission on illegal voting in the 2016 election which was headed by Kris Kobach was abruptly disbanded in shame when they found zero evidence that there had been any illegal voting.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...
You are welcome on my lawn.
The AC does have a point though. Voter ID laws on the face of it are a good idea. The problem is that it is easy to manipulate the ID requirements to disenfranchise chunks of the population.
Here in Canada, we've had voter ID laws for a long time. Generally they worked well until the last Federal election where the Conservatives were in power and getting coaching from the American Republican party on how to do it right.
Used to be that most ID was good enough, perhaps combined with some bills with your address and name on it and the ability to do an affidavit when the ID wasn't good enough. Last election, they limited the type of ID required and did a few other weird things. For example, my wife has always voted under her maiden name, partially due to her ID being in that name, and that is how she was registered. Went to the elections web site and double checked our registration, everything was fine, even the day before the election. Went to vote and mysteriously her registration had changed to my name. As this was expected due to her race, we showed up with marriage license, lots of ID and time. After a couple of hours on the phone to Ottawa, she did manage to vote. Meanwhile, I had no problem voting even though my ID just proved my residency, not my citizenship, unlike hers which was only available to citizens.
Voter ID laws are just easy to manipulate. Make it hard and ideally expensive to get ID (need to drive 40 miles here to pay $75 for ID), be really anal about the ID and disenfranchise people, especially the poor, university students who are resident somewhere but don't bother updating their ID, demand actual street addresses to remove those living in places without addresses such as Indian reservations and such and you limit voting to the correct people, including wealthier non-citizens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Did I say that? Did I imply that? Nope. However, the AC I responded to implied there were admissions of guilt about collusion - which is, in fact, provably false. Lie to the Government, you go to jail (well, unless your name is Bill or Hillary Clinton). Collusion? Still yet to even get close to an accusation, let alone an admission or conviction. Paul Manafort is charged with illegal lobbying and failing to disclose overseas assets back in 2012 and 2013 - well before President Trump had even announced a run. Collusion - really?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Reddit is a leftist site. Of course they'll say anything to bolster the campaign story. By the way, how many reasons for losing does the campaign have anyway? It's everybody's fault but their own.
I wonder how much time Cheney spends kicking himself these days. Why go through all the trouble of faking evidence of Saddam's WMD's when he could have made a series of vague, ever-changing series of assertions and people would just suck that shit up with a straw?
And all the evidence that is surfacing
What evidence is "surfacing"? Can we see real, clear evidence and not empty accusations of Russian influence on German, French, UK and Italian elections? There isn't much in terms of "evidence" at all. As for the "anti-Russian people in online communities", these are mostly paid US shills, at least the ones I'm familiar with.
And of course UK, Germany and France have interfered in Russian internal politics. Germany even gave home to a corrupt criminal, Khodorkovsky, who was pardoned by Putin, and violated the terms of his pardon almost immediately. German, British and French "foundations" - see-through covers for the respective intelligence services - routinely finance Russian "opposition", and so on.
There's no difference in methods between the Russia and the West, except in the scale - and there Russia loses massively.
This is called argument from hypocrisy, or tu quoque. Why don't you try again, Ivan.
Ah yes, when reminded that your sins are infinitely greater than the thing you criticize you whine like a bitch to deflect from your hypocrisy.
Prove it. Russiagate is real long on assertions and non-existent on facts. Like the whackjobs that insist to this day that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii and has a fake birth certificate.
FTFY. The notion that a few trolls swung an election with a few thousand dollars in ads, many of which were placed after the election and nothing to do with politics, in a race where one candidate spent over a billion dollars just proves the capacity of human beings to engage in willful dumbfuckery.
No collusion, no Russiagate. It doesn't matter if Putin himself came over and hacked voting machines to deny Hillary the vote, if there is no collusion with Trump then Mueller has no basis for his witch hunt.
Tou need to look up the definition of minority.
Hint : it's you trumpees
So are the Clintons - that doesn't mean that they had Vince Foster murdered. It's amazing how Russiagate turns a bunch of otherwise rational people into a bunch of mouth breathers.
Ah yes, the one thing that is a pretty sure bet whenever Russia comes up in the news in a none positive way is whataboutism.
It is not just about whataboutism. It is also about setting a precedent for censorship and thought control. We have gone from "Congress shall make no law ..." to "Censorship is okay if the speaker is Russian". The next step is a prohibition on speech by other "bad people". Anyone who stands up to defend the scoundrels is obviously one of them.
Some people may be "fooled' by a troll, but with zero consequence..
It's like claiming that some people now crave pictures of assholes because they fell for a Goatse link on Slashdot.
I mean, really.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
You know what else is simple? That'd be you, chucklefuck.
Obstructing an investigation is quite possible regardless of the result of the investigation. The crime is interfering with the process. And by all accounts, including Trump's, Comey was fired in connection with the investigation. If you think that you and your idol can lie your way out of an obstruction charge, then you might go talk to one W. J. Clinton about that. Whether or not there is evidence of collusion also remains to be seen, and no, you do not get to hold up the lack of such evidence leaking as a lack of evidence. The investigation leaked a simple court filing last year and heads came close to rolling, and if it were leaking left and right you'd be (rightfully) crying foul on that, too. It does happen to be illegal.
You can bet on an obstruction charge being presented, and the odds of conviction probably depend on the results in November. If I were you, I would not be sanguine at this point, but then I don't have your blithering imbecility to fall back on.
Russiagate is a thing. The only people who deny they interfered are some Trump supporters and Putin's sock-puppets. I know which you are, Uberbah.
Now that's an interesting sentence there. It's just too hard to acknowledge that their politics are shit without dragging everyone else into the mud as well, right?
So you tell me the DNC is centrist liberal. They stand for:
Open borders with no limits on immigration
Protecting felons/murders who are here illegaly so they don't have a chance to be deported
Preventing middle class from getting any possible relief on taxes
Promoting regulation and policies that destroy middle class jobs and lifestyle
Pay rogue nations developing nuclear weapons billions of dollars
Come down hard on nations like Israel who defend themselves from terrorist, while attempting to help the terrorists
Take millions and millions in bribes from countries like Russia to set State Department policy to help Russia
Abuse FISA warrants and intelligence to spy on US citizens illegally
This is what the DNC has stood for over the last few years. They are centerist? I take centerist to mean they have policies that the majority of the country would agree with. I literally don't know a SINGLE PERSON who supports DNC policies as they are enacted.
Yes there is research and I linked to it here
http://www.judicialwatch.org/w...
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Cut out the fucking neo-redbaiting xenophobe crap, guy.
That is how you reduce the trolls to make their trolling ineffectual. Scorched earth policy When you troll the trolls, you turn their weapons against them. Tovarish. MAGA baby!
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I'm not sure what you think that the Mueller investigation has leaked. The only things public so far are the court filings, and when one of those leaked last year, the red team was all over it. Because it's illegal to do that (unless you're investigating a Democrat). The news media tries their best to make the court filings into a story, but they're really not getting a lot of information about what's happening, and that's a good thing. Conversely, if you think that there has been some substantial amount of leaking, I'm sure that Team Trump would be extremely happy to have that as an argument for Mueller's dismissal. Good luck with that.
If you think that there was something scandalous about Uranium One you're fucking retarded. Uranium One isn't even an American company, and the only one with veto power on that deal was Obama. Clinton sold nothing, could not have sold anything, and had a minimal role even in rubber-stamping this trade deal. The uranium in question generally stayed in the US. Some was exported for processing, and an equivalent amount of processed uranium was returned to the US, but technically it can be said that some of the uranium was exported to western Europe due to something called book transfer.
That's it. No bribes, no crimes, just a big fat Republican lie, and you are apparently the kind of idiot who repeats lies, long after they're proven false. Burn in hell.
Just give up. He is a delusional left wing nutjob and his opinion doesn't matter any more.
Even the author of your research says that Judicial Watch's interpretation (and math) are wrong.
https://www.wired.com/2017/01/...
Also, remember this entire research is based on an opt-in online survey. In other words, as evidence of voter fraud, it's pretty much horseshit.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Whataboutism, the hypocrites' favoutite word du jour.
Maybe if they wrote about censorship. But it wasn't a comment about censorship it was about others being just as bad or worse than Russia. So what is left is an appeal to hypocrisy. Like a whiny child that has been found out and is so bitter that it has to point out that others did the same thing.
"Well, it's clear that Mr. Putin has a plan, and that plan includes not just the use of his military but also cyberattacks, disinformation, support for fringe political groups, the weaponization (ph) of energy resources, organized crime and corruption, all of that to compromise democratic institutions. His primary target is Europe. He's trying to influence countries particularly where there is Russian-speaking populations but also Western Europe. And he's also been interested in the United States, as we saw in the 2016 election."
- Ben Cardin of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee
“So I have a very simple message for Russia. We know what you are doing. And you will not succeed,”
- Theresa May
So's the idea that the moon landings were faked. Lunar conspiracy theorists can also rattle off a long series of talking points that fail to withstand any degree of scrutiny.
Then you'll have no problem with laying off the McCarthyite dipshittery and proving your case, then.
> They are very much NOT leftist, NOT liberal, NOT progressive. Those words have all become meaningless, because people are still using them to describe the Democrats, when they are very much none of those things any more.
People keep saying that, but left and right are relative to each country. Europeans make a big deal that they have communists in their legislatures, but they also have hardcore nationalists. The US doesn't really have either (yes, the news makes a big deal about right-wing protesters, but they don't have any power; neither do the communists I've met).
Of course, this could all change via immigration policies. Bringing in millions of Latin Americans could result in a communist insurgency since they are much more left leaning (and yet don't mind their labor being exploited by capitalists, go figure). The same is true of potential Islamic troubles if we let a bunch of Middle Easterners in.
Complain about low information while not providing any, and a little insult to wrap it up, lol. You probably think you're really smart.
I'm Romanian, what are my sins here again?
I can provide something, but I'll predict you call fake news, no real evidence, or some to the same effect. Denying anything inconvenient is is one of the other problems before whataboutism comes into play. Because invoking the tu quoque kind of admits that it happened or at least that they believe it happened themselves. But whatever, here's one example: https://dgap.org/en/think-tank...
Judicial Watch just linked to his original paper and even your article says this
Here's what the math should look like (that is, if Richman's initial study was accurate -- which many researchers doubt). If 6.4 percent of the estimated 20.3 million noncitizens in the US voted, and if just 81.8 percent of them voted for Clinton (the percentage who voted for Obama in his 2008 study), that's an added margin of a little more than 835,000 votes. In other words: Even with all of those supposedly fraudulent ballots, Clinton still would have won the popular vote by more than 2 million votes.
Exactly what I said. And Richman stands by his study and defended it here
https://www.washingtonpost.com...
It's true he wrote this article attacking the way his research has been used
https://fs.wp.odu.edu/jrichman...
This post is not intended to make a specific claim on my part concerning how many non-citizens voted in 2016. It has a much narrower aim. My goal was to show that an extrapolation from my coauthored work on the 2008 election to the 2016 election did not support the arguments some seemed to be making that the entire popular vote margin for Clinton was due to illegal votes by non-citizens. In this post I do my own calculation of that extrapolation for the purpose of demonstrating that this extrapolation would not support that claim.
So what he's saying is that if you use his estimate of 834,318 non citizen votes to claim that that was less than Clinton's 2,235,663 popular vote lead that's fine with him. If however you use his estimate of 834,318 non citizen votes to say that non citizen votes are significant problem with US elections that's not. Because the media and the Democrats - like there's any difference - have both dogpiled him to get him to stop publishing research with that inconvenient truth in it.
Also, remember this entire research is based on an opt-in online survey. In other words, as evidence of voter fraud, it's pretty much horseshit.
Bullshit. It's based on CCES. And he cross checked the CCES data against voter files. His 6.4% estimate is based on non citizens who claim they voted and who he'd actually checked did vote by looking at voter files.
https://www.washingtonpost.com...
In a forthcoming article in the journal Electoral Studies, we bring real data from big social science survey datasets to bear on the question of whether, to what extent, and for whom non-citizens vote in U.S. elections. Most non-citizens do not register, let alone vote. But enough do that their participation can change the outcome of close races.
Our data comes from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study (CCES). Its large number of observations (32,800 in 2008 and 55,400 in 2010) provide sufficient samples of the non-immigrant sub-population, with 339 non-citizen respondents in 2008 and 489 in 2010. For the 2008 CCES, we also attempted to match respondents to voter files so that we could verify whether they actually voted.
How many non-citizens participate in U.S. elections? More than 14 percent of non-citizens in both the 2008 and 2010 samples indicated that they were registered to vote. Furthermore, some of these non-citizens voted. Our best guess, based upon extrapolations from the portion of the sample with a verified vote, is that 6.4 percent of non-citizens voted in 2008 and 2.2 percent of non-citizens voted in 2010.
You need to stop consuming Democrat fake news mate!
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I'm not going to convince him, but I might convince some of the people reading this thread that non citizen voting is a significant problem in the US.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
I'm sorry. I was not aware that Russians were allowed to vote in US elections.
No. It was a choice between a somewhat corrupt but interesting and amusing clownish real estate developer and an extraordinarily and extremely corrupt but mind numbingly boring politician who just happened to be a woman. Both exist on,y through family inheritance. He was given tons of raw hard cash. She was married to a former president and stole tons of raw hard cash. Neither would be anyone on their own. Washing my dishes, if they're lucky, without those family connections.
What it came down to if he was different and she ran the dumbest campaign EVER.
Please cite something that says your country's fucked up voting laws are the fault of the US Republican Party.
The rest of your issues are Canadian problems which are anecdotal, uncitable and nothing to do with US laws or elections.
No Collusion! They've got nothing on me. Absolutely no evidence. Fake news!
What you should be worried about is Hillary. Email servers! Bengazzi! Sickem boy!
There you are, trying to divide us into warring camps again. We are all Americans. We stand together, strong, against those who would divide us. You are either a paid shill or an unpaid agent of Moscow. Either way, you're the enemy of the American people, Ivan.
The Bill of Rights doesn't apply to foreign citizens on foreign soil, so your slippery slope argument is misplaced.
There you are, trying to divide us into warring camps again. We are all Americans. We stand together, strong, against those who would divide us. You are either a paid shill or an unpaid agent of Moscow. Either way, you're the enemy of the American people, Ivan.
How did you guess my name?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Let's just set aside the fact that Slashdot admins are deleting comments here. Now, Reddit is a leftist site and will do whatever it can to bolster claims from the Hillary Campaign, which is where this originated, as well as the fake dossier, and as well as the FBI collusion with the campaign to push this false story.
I'm not sure about how 'fake' the win of Trump was. Given the choice between Clinton and Trump I actually rooted for him from a purely egoistical European perspective. Because I think Europe needed that kick in the teeth. We're on our own.
What I'm fairly sure about is the Russian trolling on the internet that has been going on for years. I don't think that it is that dangerous for the US since America is far enough away from Russia's influence. But it is a lot more dangerous for European countries.
3 or so years ago it was a running joke that Russian "infiltrators" were running around Slashdot, with obvious bias, trying to steer conversations around in the comments section. Suddenly, in 2018, that joke is seen is absurd, not happening, never ever, not on THIS website, and how dare you for suggesting!
One wonders if they actually won the Slashdot "battle" when no one was noticing.
Hail, Comrade. How is St. Petersburg this time of year?
hookers and grits.
What you provided was propaganda about Russian propaganda:
1) Russia had an existing base in Crimea. If moving troops through that base is an "invasion", then the United States invades the fuck out of Germany many times each year in its 20+ military bases in that country.
2) The US overthrew the elected government of Ukraine. Anyone who leaves that fact out of the discussion is a sophist of the highest order, spitting out propaganda.
3) After overthrowing the Ukrainian government, the U.S. started moving to give the junta weapons and eventually join NATO. If the USSR had overthrown Canada and brought it into the Warsaw Pact, it's not as if the US would sit around with its thumb up its ass.
Literally from the summary at the top of this page. So I'm not sure what you're talking about or what kind of evidence you want to see. ...
But it is very interesting how your first reply is another whataboutism. The 2nd reply is another appeal to moral that argues that two bads make a good.
Talk about sophisms
We have gone from "Congress shall make no law ..." to "Censorship is okay if the speaker is Russian". The next step is a prohibition on speech by other "bad people". Anyone who stands up to defend the scoundrels is obviously one of them.
Does free speech cover Russian government paid for propaganda, done by people posing as ordinary Americans (when in fact they may have never stepped foot in the country), and spreading false information to influence an American election in favor of Russia (a government hostile to US interests)?
I don't believe that it does, and if you think it should, you are an enemy of the US... Russian or not.
Except...except you pick your sources to fit what is convenient for you.
The article is propaganda about propaganda. I copied and pasted a paragraph and responded to it directly - did you even look at your own link?
If the USSR had overthrown Canada and brought it into the Warsaw Pact, it's not as if the US would sit around with its thumb up its ass.
^ repeated for those engaging in so much willful dumbfuckery they can't see a straight up cause & effect scenario when it's in front of their face.
They pretty much just used the Crimea example to introduce the term "hybrid warfare" and then go on to elaborate forms of that kind of warfare. But you directly proceeded to attack the people behind the article instead of the subject of the article with appeals to moral which somehow invalidates everything else, huh?
From what I know there's a considerable number of Germans who thinks that the American military bases that are still in Germany are a form of occupation and or invasion. But what does that change in the context of the ongoing trolling and propaganda?
Sure, if the Soviet Union had overthrown Canada the US would probably have reacted in that way. But what's your point besides of employing a red herring with this kind of argument?
Two wrongs or even hypothetical wrongs don't make a right. Well, maybe in your sophist mind, but not when you look at it rationally.
I'm leaving that to Mueller.
16 months later.... No collusion. No collusion charges. No leaks that hint at collusion.
At some point you need to admit that you were duped.
Card skimming and pestering people to buy flowers when they're trying to have a quiet drink.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Proving intent is the hard part, and Trump's apparent strategy of casting doubt on his intent by burying public statements announcing his intent in the middle of a bunch more contradictory statements not written by him is... interesting.
As the other respondent colorfully pointed out, it is a crime to obstruct an investigation whether or not the investigation found anything. Finding stuff out is what investigations are for.
The occasional individual non-citizen voting isn't the problem. The problem is organized foreign groups trying to influence American politics. AIPAC is a much better example of what's wrong than the occasional mexican citizen voting.
They are very much NOT leftist, NOT liberal, NOT progressive. Those words have all become meaningless,
They were meaningless a century ago, if not more. Political parties are all about choosing a side and helping "your side" win. Partisans have a bad name for that reason.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Must have been Ivana, because it's pretty obvious Melania voted for Hillary.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Yeah, how brutal of these organized groups.
They should have used the American approach and arm a bunch of moderate islamic Terrorist, as done in Syria!
They probably were Romani aka gypsies :). No seriously, I'm sorry for that if that counts for anything.
Looking at our own politicians there's still a ton of corruption going on setting very bad examples for the people, that you can get away with crime pretty easily. It's the legacy all the corruption that happened in the 40 years of communism. As a crooked employee of the government life could be very easy despite the circumstances. Oh, and before someone asks, this was not the fault of the Soviet Union or has anything to do with Russia (no sarcasm or irony).
Very funny to see how the Anglosaxon Empire punishes the deviants.
It would be more funny if you did Not destroy entire Nations such as Syria, Iraq and Yemen FOR FUN.
Bingo. The 1â... are furious and Clutch the straw while swimming in their own piss.
Trump does Not support petpetual war, which the arms and Media industries dislike.
So they Marshall the FBI plus their useful idiots, the lefties.
The only thing you convinced me of is that you are a lying right wing nut job, with several sock puppets that mod your lies up. This is made more obvious in your posting history. Sad.
All your BS does matter ONLY if there were Impeachment proceedings. Otherwise it is just Idle talk.
Face it, you lefties are tools of warmongers, banksters, Wahabist terror sponsors and international corporations. You are clutching for straw.
I am from Greenland, not Russia, but I am sure you won't believe it.
Lefties live on memes invented by the one percent of elite lefties. No matter how batshit crazy these memes are.
I see the same rooskie memes in my US occupied nation.
Very much the same is with the BS memes the banksters invent. Or those by Lockheed and the alleged Iraqi super missiles.
They have now switched to evil iranians, because someone wants to set off yet another war there.
Easy to see the pattern if you have retained some critical thinking of your own.
The only problem being that the Whiteys are super easy to manipulate and enrage. Just repeat the same lies for a few weeks and Whitey will be on your side.
That is also the expectation of our elite:we are supposed to obey the BS they spread or they will throw a hussy fit.
You are relentless. Trying to avoid getting nerve gassed like the guy in the UK?
Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
I was not aware that CNN was actually part of the Democratic Party. Given how hard they've been going on the Russia "nothingburger", I can't say I'm too surprised though.
Wah? You expect the American public to give a shit about the CIA messing with other nations elections?
I honestly can't imagine ANY atrocity the US government could commit against another nation that would move the American public to bother even protesting, let alone revolting against. Can you??
If the US government started carpet bombing Canadian and Mexican hospitals and orphanages you MIGHT get some protests spring up. As long as it didn't clash with The Kardashians timeslot.
MAGA baby!
Good luck with that friend.
if there is no collusion with Trump then Mueller has no basis for his witch hunt.
So if there was only collusion with many of Trump's staffers that would be prefectly fine because there was no collusion with Trump? Really?
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Completely invisible to public is a spectacular economy jumpstart in 2017
You mean the economy jumpstart that looks exactly like following the trendlines from the past several years of Obama's presidency? Yes, good job Trump on not completely fucking up the economy yet. Give him time; he's working on it.
Does free speech cover Russian government paid for propaganda, done by people posing as ordinary Americans
If you can find an exception for Russians when the Constitution says "no law", please let me know.
... and spreading false information to influence an American election
You mean like how the Russians leaked info about the DNC colluding with Hillary to cheat Bernie out of the nomination? Except that turned out to be true.
The Bill of Rights doesn't apply to foreign citizens on foreign soil, so your slippery slope argument is misplaced.
Bullcrap. The Bill of Rights says Congress shall make NO LAW abridging freedom of speech. It says nothing about an exception for foreigners.
Russian trolls most likely did no such thing in any European elections. You see, Europeans are their colonial masters, Russia is more or less owned by EU economically and politically.
If Russian trolls did anything it was likely one European faction contracting them against another, perhaps to do some false flag play to shifte the blame.
Eastern Europe countries are not rally European, they are sort of dominions, and if the real EU wants Russians to troll the limitrophes, so be it.
Theresa May is sure to know what Mr. Putin is doing because she more or less controls him, on par with Merkel and Macron. Russia is not that independent from EU and UK. Russia can not even stop to feed the Ukraine. Not to speak of all the rich ruskies living in London, or St Tropez, or Nice.
Just what is the proof that the propaganda coming from Russian troll farms is in fact Russian, that is, made by Russian state to advance its interests?
These troll farms are for sale. They employ mostly people like unemployed Ukrainian youth. The do it for petty money. Many an actor could buy a bit of troll farm. If you are poised to lose some elections, hire a Russian troll farm to make it the reason.
Resignations and charges, charges and resignations. They're happening almost daily now, aren't they?
People who can't get security clearances due to all their sketchy dealings and finances and connections with mobsters and "oligarchs".
It was a campaign and is now an administration serving up huge steaming ladles full of corruption *and* incompetence. Based on an ideology espoused by nut-jobs who run away when confronted with reality.
But you go on and enjoy your conspiracy theories.
Half century under the Soviets is indeed bad. Then, add the half thousand years under the Turks into consideration and you will see where you really belong. It's Asia. And then be glad you are not having it like Siria or Kurdistan or Lybia, the other former Turkish dominions. You can have any French Constitution in Kongo or Cameroon. Sure does help a lot, if but not for these Russian trolls that spoil everything.
And there's as much evidence to suggest that as there is that one of the Clinton's staffers shot Vince Foster.
Really.
Trying to avoid human extinction brought on purely, utterly and entirely from Western Exceptionalist assholes. The evidence of the U.S. and its allies fucking with the rest of the world and Russia in particular could fill an encyclopedia set. As opposed to the evidence of Russian "meddling" in the US 2016 election, which thus far is non-existent.
Or the other 30 or so close associates just died from suicide by gun, random robbery gone bad, just plain murder.
If you want a complete history of collusion between US politicians and Russians, read "Treason" by Ann Coulter.
I gotta admit, whoever writes your material is very good at it. They must have studied in a Western University.
Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
Reddit is notorious for pervasive, aggressive Chinese-style censorship. They have zero credibility. Why does anyone believe a word they say?
On the contrary, they succeeded in profiting from clickbait. The trolls got paid no matter what happened.
As I tried to make clear, it is not known whether or not the trolls swung the election, and probably will never be known, and it's probably not important except as an object lesson about what to do the next time someone (whether Russia or someone else) tries.
If Russian trolls did swing an election, it's only because mainstream parties spent the last 30 years making it easy to do. That is what should be the most concerning part. All you need to do is glance at this very comment thread and you can see why, even if it didn't work, it wasn't such a dumb idea to try.
Well, that and the fact that the supposed populist who is going to save us from party politics is the one obstructing the investigation.
No collusion, no Russiagate.
It's obstructiongate now. It doesn't matter if collusion happened or not any more, trying to shut down the investigation is still a crime.
> Which is why the Republicans want voter ID laws and Democrats say they're racist.
I don't think that's the primary reason the Repubs want it, but it's a reason. The conservative tendency to draw lines, make wall and constrain things to walled sections, is just part of the conservative philosophy. It happens to look racist to someone with different political (and sociological) views.
Collusion? It's not just collusion. It's covert intervention by the Russian state in US politics. Mueller is still investigating but his net is getting bigger. We'll have to see what wriggling creatures he lands, big fish and small fry.
Which would turn the US into a one party state with no borders and an economy like Venezuela.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Different a/c. No, not like when the "Russians leaked info". Like when the Russians gained that info by hacking/phishing/whatever their way into US computers, or pretended to be Americans for nefarious purposes.
This isn't about free speech and censorship but deception. Assuming you are American, how would you feel if some person started talking to you in a bar and they had a US accent and at least implied they were American and then spent half the time saying what a terrible place the US was and then later you found they were actually Russian and paid by the state to go round bars badmouthing the US?
Your best arguemnt is "oh but Clinton!".
Read your own post. You argued that unless it was Trump himself colluding then there was no need for Meuller going about his "witch hunt". You are explicitly discounting any collusion from staffers as being important from a law enforcement point of view.
Oh but Clinton!
And that my man is why you're fucked.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
What about american trolls?
Yes, the bill does say that for what I know. But private entities like Reddit or facebook are not the Congress - they are private entities that have to look after themselves and their customers. If they want to censor people based on their nationality, language of whatever other arbitrary reason it's a shitty move, but doesn't violate any US laws as far as I know. This is because their own freedom of speech on their own platform supersedes that of their users.
Citizens not liking all the Russian bullshit that has been flooding the internet also aren't the Congress. Yes, for them it's also shitty to dislike something purely based on nationality and so forth, but again it's perfectly legal.
Um. Except there is no red herring. All the countries you name have. At various points in history, enthusiastically attempted regime change in other countries either directly through subjugation or indirectly through disinformation and influencing the population through various means.
Just because itâ(TM)s online now doesnâ(TM)t reset some sort of clock. America has been particularly active in this sphere of operations in the pursuit of its foreign policy goals since the end of WW2.
America just got pwned by Russia and elected a president on their say so. Thatâ(TM)s âinfluencing regime changeâ(TM).
Suckers.
Sounds like Reddit has a case of the Jan Bradys.
It's OK Reddit. Some day you will grow up and the boys will start to notice you, just like they do Facebook. Don't be jealous.
You copy and paste that from a 2003 post, smearing an Iraq war skeptic as a Saddam supporter? And for that psyop they actually presented evidence - faked evidence, but they presented it at the UN. Now they aren't bothering with evidence at all, and people like you are eating their shit up with a spoon, and attacking anyone who doesn't join you for second and third helpings.
The invasion and occupation of Iraq has cost a million lives and trillions of dollars. Just WTF do you geniuses think the cost will be of a hot war with Russia?
When it's distracting from the topic at hand and steers the conversation to something else than it's by definition a red herring type of fallacy. These tu quoque are only really relevant when someone who complains about you (for example) claims at the same moment that they themselves are morally so much superior. It's not like the Western media only reports positive things about what happens in here in the West. In fact most of the time Western media loves to report about political and other scandals that happen in the West.
Think about it this way: If a really fat person that's stuffing their face with cheeseburgers right now is telling you that you should hold back with your carbs from the ice cream you're eating because it increases the risk of diabetes then them being overweight and gobbling hamburgers does not have any relevance on the truth of their statement.
If you think about it, it's pretty stupid to use all these moralistic arguments in order to shut up any discourse because in the end nobody would be allowed to say anything any more because pretty much everywhere there were some bad people and some shit went down during history. For example if Russia was complaining about the inhuman treatment of prisoners in the Guantanamo Bay detention camp which is still going on, then it's totally irrelevant that there were Gulags in the Soviet Union and how people were treated there. While it is true that there were terrible Gulags it does not change what happens in Guantanamo Bay.
Like the "Correct The Record" trolls spouting propaganda? That probably involved more money than what the Russians spent.
You first.
Uh, no. The point - which was clear enough the first time - that's there's as much evidence that Trump staffers colluded with Russia as there is that Clinton staffers shot Vince Foster. As in none. If you don't want to be compared to crazy nuts who believe asinine conspiracy theories without any evidence - then maybe you should find some evidence, eh?
FTFY. Everything Hillbots have accused Trump of Russia of doing, Hillary did, and did it first. From rigging an election (Democratic primary) to taking dirt on her opponent from Ukraine as well as Russia - even paying for it, unlike Trump.
Uh, no. The point - which was clear enough the first time - that's there's as much evidence t
That was the second post, ya numpty. Try reading the FIRST one I responded to. The one where you said:
The only criterion you gave was Trump's actions. Ergo, you consider the actions of the staffers unimportant. Don't try to fob me off with tangents, that is what you said: only Trump's actions matter.
Saying there's no evidence against staffers means you are admitting tacitly that their actions do matter, else why would evidence be relevant?
From rigging an election (Democratic primary)
Bernie lost fair and square. He's not a Democrat, he's an independent (always was) so it's not surprising that the Dem faithfuls voted for a long term Dem. Oh sorry I forgot you're a Trumpanzee conspiracy theorist. But that's a tautology, innit.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
What exactly makes these people trolls?
Bring on the /. right-wing equivocation. I love it. How deluded can humans be, when driven only by selfish desires? Look at the Republicans. Mueller is coming, the 'libtard' story turned out to be true - and almost nothing the 'conservitards' claimed turned out to be true.
Same old historical story. Progress, blocked by conservative selfish/xenophobic hate.
Eh. When you know as many people as the Clinton's have, the chances of a number of them having crazy deaths is pretty high. Kind of like the list of Power Ranger actors that have died at young ages from accidents, illnesses or even landed in prison for murder. There isn't a "curse" on the show, just a natural effect of a huge number of people being involved in a long running franchise.
That said, Russiagaters everywhere need to have this, Vince Foster, and the alleged heroin smuggling operation the Clintons ran thrown in their faces on a daily basis. They keep bringing out the "where there's smoke, there's fire" line on Russian collusion, but the Clintons have more smoke than Trump does.
None whatsoever, but that doesn't stop them. Curious, though, that they only whine about supposed interference to supposedly help Trump. They DGAF about the Hillary campaign engaging in all the same activities, or a single rich Chinese couple spending $1.3 million to get Jeb elected.
Yep - clickbait to lure people in and make money from ads. Same kind of business that sites from Raw Story to TMZ engage in.
The people who accepted that the election happened, and that one side won, and are carrying on with their lives are a large majority.
Can anyone believe RUSSIANS are allowed to be on the internet and posts memes that aren't amusing to the Reddit administration?
We need to step up our control of the internet to rein in these cyber-superweapons.
It's the red scare!
They even post as Chinese trolls.
They overthrew the democratically elected Ukrainian government...
They overthrew the Iraqi strongman and plunged the country into chaos.
They eliminated the Libyan government and allowed ISIS to arise.
They interfered in the Phillipines election.
The told the British not to vote for Breitling
They have 800 military bases world wide.
They are so powerful, they record EVERY text, email, phone call and website visit in the USA at their data center in Utah.
Those pesky Russians!
While completely ignoring the fact that the Ukrainian government was overthrown by the United States or the fact that Russia already had a base in Crimea. Would you find a Japanese historian reasonable if he wrote a book bitching, moaning and crying about the American invasion of Iwo Jima while completely omitting Pearl Harbor?
If you choose to be willfully blind to support your narrative, that's your call, but you can't expect Russians (or anyone with a functioning cerebral cortex) to do the same on behalf of your propaganda.
Which of course they are.
If Russia is "invading" Crimea when moving troops through an existing base, then so too is the United States when moving troops through existing bases in Germany. Or the UK. Or Japan. Or Italy. Or Saudi Arabia. This isn't a hard subject to grasp - were you dropped on the head as a child, early and often?
Remedial cause and effect is the opposite of a red herring.
What's wrong about accepting a vote to succeed from a nation overthrown by literal Neo-Nazis?
Willful.
Dumbfuckery.
Hysterical pedantry. No collusion, no Russiagate. As there is nothing approaching even probable suspicion that there was collusion between Trump and Russia - or his staffers for the exceptionally retentive - then there is no Russiagate.
Laughable. Long before we knew about the Hillary Victory Fund money laundering, before union leaders ignored their membership and endorsed Mrs. Nafta, before we knew about the 200,000 voters illegally stripped from rolls in Brooklyn, before the "Bernie's so black" smear campaign, before we knew Hillary outright owned and ran the DNC or it argued in open court it had the right to rig primaries, we knew the slashed debate schedule was created to prevent a repeat of 2008. Where an unkown first-term senator beat the biggest name in Democratic politics like a rented mule. Because the more voters see Hillary Clinton, the less they like her. Everything the DNC did was to avoid a repeat of 2008, so HRC could coast to an easy coronation.
MAGA baby!
Good luck with that friend.
Whoosh.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Oh please you can do better than that. Dig deeper into the playbook.
Only crack the nuts that crack. You don't put the ones that don't crack in the sack.
And when you think someone can't be more stupid, they just repeat the same thing ad nauseam.
All this over some Pepe memes...
I mean it is possible that someone else paid the Russian troll factories to spread pro-Russian propaganda, drag what's perceived as their opponents through the mud at every possible instance, and fund radicals activist groups in various countries. If you look at the cui bono here then there's the remote possibility that the fallout of such actions will eventually come back at Russia and benefit its opponents. I mean if we throw Occam's Razor out of the window it's perfectly reasonable that it's not Russia when the most obvious benefactor would be Russia.
Other than that I'm not sure what to say anymore because it's like talking to a wall - worse actually. Apparently your logic is that if someone doesn't start at the big bang nothing they say can possibly hold any truth. And then ad hominem, tu quoque, and any other distraction that. I think at this point you do it more to convince yourself of things than to convince others. That is if you do that out of your own volition and are not otherwise 'motivated' to do it. Because in a different post you kind of admitted that your fear of Russia's nuclear arsenal motivates you to do this, which of course you twisted into making the US look like the aggressor.
Anyone who stands up to defend the scoundrels is obviously one of them.
What in the actual HELL?!? Isn't that a provable logical fallacy?
When I lived in California, one of the senators attempted to pass a bill that would allow illegal aliens to vote. (This man has since passed away.) I remember thinking we should therefore allow absentee ballots to the Russians. Funny how the absurdity of one era gets more absurd over time.
"enthusiastically shared by Trump supporters" certainly no bias there, they clearly contacted each individual and asked them their emotional state and whether or not they are a supporter of the elected President.
"less propaganda"
So you didn't even read the article, about Russian PROPAGANDA flooding social media in favor of tRump.
Yes, that sounds false dichotomy - either you're with us or against us. A far too common theme in these discussions on all sides.
No collusion, no Russiagate.
Basically you are refusing to state whether you do or do not think it's a crime if Trump staffers colluded with the Russians. IOW You think they did, are glad they did but don't want to admit it.
As there is nothing approaching even probable suspicion that there was collusion between Trump and Russia
Hysterical deflection. This has no relevance on whether or not his staffers colluding is a problem.
Laughable.
Of course, you would laugh at the truth, wouldn't you?
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Libtards gonna libtard.
There's actually quite a lot of incontrovertible fact behind it. Admissions made by Trump campaign advisers that are now public information. Those can't really be disregarded considering they are admissions of guilt.
The only real question now, is how deep does it go?
Great, you'll have no problems listing them. Oh, you can't? Insert eye roll emoji here.
They most certainly can, given that they have nothing to do with Russia stealing the election or colluding with Trump to do so.
You fell for literal fake news. Hal_Porter, how does it feel to be one of the most gullible propagators of fake news on /.? Do you know you help fund antifa when you click on my fake news links? :)
You sound like James Risen, who was in a debate with Greenwald who said about 15 times he wanted hard evidence for this conspiracy theory given the lies told in the past from the same people pushing Russiagate. Risen responded not with evidence, but haranguing Greenwald about what his personal beliefs were on Trump and Russia.
Like Greenwald, I'm an atheist and I don't have to believe anything. Belief is for religion - current events are matter of facts. So until Russian collusion is a proven fact, you may as well speculate what will happen if one of Trump's aids turns out to be a child molester or a cannibal. It's a free country, you can believe whatever you want, but it puts you in the same territory as people who speculate that the moon landings were faked or that Obama was born in Kenya.
tl;dr: put up the evidence or stfu until you do
The truth where Sanders can walk into a room full of Trump voters and have them cheering for free health care and higher education in a matter of minutes? He was a no-name senator from a tiny-assed state. Against the entire party establishment, against the biggest name in party politics, against the media, Bernie should have lasted as long as Jim Webb or Laurence Lessig in the primary and dropped out with 5% of the vote at most. Not by winning 23 states and 43% of the vote despite the election being rigged in favor of another candidate.
So your projection is noted.
And it's "possible" that Obama was born in Kenya. Whoop de freaking do. The thing here, AC, is that you're believing in a narrative, and I'm an atheist. I don't do belief, I do facts. And so far - how many posts are we into this thread now? - you don't have any.
Yes, you are a wall. Evidence. Evidence.
Eh.
Vi.
Dense.
If you have any, you would be presenting it instead of just blowing more smoke. Like if I'm debating an Obamabot who's claiming that Obama was really a great guy who was just held back by a hostile GOP Congress, I will burry his dumb ass in facts. Facts like the Dem supermajority from '09-'11, or that the worst policies during his time in office came from Obama, not Republicans. And then list them.
Annnnnd this is where I burry your dumb ass with facts. After promising Gorbachev that NATO wouldn't expand eastward (so Germany's reunification wouldn't be vetoed), the hostile military alliance has nearly doubled in size and expanded right to Russia's borders. If that wasn't enough, Dubbya erected "missile shields" in eastern Europe to make it easier for the U.S. to launch a first nuclear strike on Russia and survive the retaliatory launches. Sure, they claimed it was for Iran, but not even Ray Charles is blind enough to buy that one, and he's dead.
Then Bush invaded a country on Russia's border, Obama overthrew another, and in the biggest act of chutzpah in history, levied sanctions against Russia in response to said American overthrow. Obama also deployed the largest number of troops seen in eastern Europe since WWII and started a trillion-dollar upgrade of America's nuclear arsenal. Hillary campaigned on shooting down Russian planes in Syria, where Russia has been invited but where the US has no business being. And now, Trump is sending the U.S. Navy to the Black Sea, which is the equivalent to Putin sending a carrier group the Gulf of Mexico 'in response to American aggression.' Of course the United States is the aggressor here. The whole in your head would have to be measured in light years to claim otherwise.
^This is what it looks when you can back back up your shit with facts and citations. When you Russiagaters can do the same, by all means let us know.
You sound like James Risen
And you sound like every politician ever: fundamentally dishonest.
You made a stupid claim, I am holding you to account for that claim and you vigorously respond by pretending you said something you think is easier to defend.
It's slashdot: you can't edit posts so it's there in writing what you said.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
So you're saying that it's as unlikely that someone else paid Russian trolls to spread pro-Russian propaganda as it is that Obama was born in Kenya? Then we're on the same page after all I suppose.
From what I read you're not an atheists at all, you only pretend to be. From the rest I get that you bought into the propaganda machine from the other side, constantly trying to distract from the topic and put blame on others. It's kind of like when you confront a Christian with how much harm religion has done to the world and then they counter with how much harm atheists have done and use Stalin and Mao as an example. Yeah sure, they did a lot of harm to Europe and Asia and it's really hard to beat their headcount. But had it anything to do with atheism? Hardly.
It's psychological I guess. They feel personally offended by a statement that didn't even address them personally and then resort to apologetics, whataboutism and association fallacies. While all of those may be true statements on their own that can be backed up with facts, they don't really change anything. It's like I'm claiming that 5>2 and you claim "no you hypocritic moron 3>2". Both is true but the latter does not negate the former. That's that you're doing.
It's a pretty transparent rhetoric but I'm afraid there's plenty of morons in the west who buy into it. I mean most politicians in the west use the same rhetoric in debates and people don't call them out on it. On the contrary they support them.
No, in fact I'm more convinced that you're a lunatic that links to provably fake news.
As everyone else knows, including most Republicans, you have Obama to thank for that great economy. Trump's economy didn't kick in until last October, at which point the stock market started slipping.
Probably fake eh? The Texas Attorney General reported the exact same thing
https://www.texasattorneygener...
Attorney General Ken Paxton today announced that his office sent a letter to state Senator Bryan Hughes, the chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Election Integrity, announcing a significant voter fraud initiative and addressing key problems and policy areas related to election law. The Office of the Attorney General (OAG) also stands ready to assist Starr County District Attorney Omar Escobar in the fight against voter fraud, and fully supports his efforts to educate the countyâ(TM)s citizens on existing and amended voting laws.
The letter to Senator Hughes highlights the lack of safeguards in the voting system to detect ineligible voters, discusses additional potential measures to address to mail-in ballot fraud, and addresses the use of public funds for political activity. The letter also discusses a specific investigation of four counties where 165 unlawfully registered non-citizens had been removed from the voter rolls after casting 100 illegal votes in Texas elections in the last two years. The OAG also discovered that the legal process for removing ineligible voters who self-report is not being followed correctly, if at all, in various counties. Several investigations into ineligible voting and voter fraud are ongoing.
And then there's this memo from Jennifer Palmieri saying that getting DACA recipients to vote is crucial for Democrats
http://www.newsweek.com/daca-m...
A memo from a liberal-leaning advocacy group warning Democrats that they could fail in the 2018 midterm races if they can't strike a deal to protect "Dreamer" children of undocumented immigrants has conservatives accusing the party of playing politics with the lives of migrants.
The memo from Jennifer Palmieri, Hillary Clintonâ(TM)s former top aide and executive vice president for communications and advocacy for the Center for American Progress Action Fund, called on Democrats to make the fight for DACA recipients a âoemoral imperativeâ or else risk jeopardizing their chances in 2018.
âoeThe fight to protect Dreamers is not only a moral imperative, it is also a critical component of the Democratic Partyâ(TM)s future electoral success,â the memo reads
Or you believe Pope Ratho that the only non citizens voting are Russians voting for Trump.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
Furthermore there's quite a bit of a difference between this topic and religion.
Religion is based upon the believe that some god or gods or something else with supernatural abilities exists. For example in some Asian and East Asian religions they believe that the Universe bestows karma onto people according to their action and then judges them after they die. It's pretty much always about some supernatural stuff. Often it's also claimed that these things are beyond human understanding to begin with. In any way it's something we don't have any proof for and as far as agnostic go it will probably never be provable.
On the other hand with propaganda from Russia we know that the Kremlin exists. We know who sits in the Kremlin and has the say there. We know that media outlets like RT.com exist. They target Western audience and are funded by the state, essentially by the Kremlin. We know what kind of material RT.com broadcasts and can infer from that that the Kremlin has an interest in broadcasting their view of events into the Western world. And we also know what their views are. They try to discredit the West wherever it serves them. We know that troll farms exist in Russia. We know that these troll farms spread Russian propaganda on Western media platforms like facebook, youtube, reddit and the likes. We've had government agencies who claim to have experienced cyber attacks from Russia. We've had people who claim to be ex employees of those troll farms who tie the funding they get to the Russian state. Now we don't know whether the latter two things actually true or not because every human may tell the truth or lie for any reason. Could it be all a conspiracy against Russia? Sure but it fits the picture that the Kremlin painted over the last couple of decades damn well.
But of course this is totally equivalent to believing in the existence of a super natural being with supernatural powers that can't be proven one way or the other. And therefore you must distract and distract and distract.
Don't get me wrong. Governments in the West do plenty of shit. I don't deny that like you constantly try to claim. I hate even my own government and protested on the streets against them. But that doesn't mean that the Russian government is cool and all justified. When my government screws with me adding another foreign government to it doesn't make the situation better it makes it worse. Because in the end two wrongs still don't make a right, they make two wrongs.
Yes ISIS and the Taliban are shaking in their boots. Let us know if you ever win Korea too.
Yes ISIS and the Taliban are shaking in their boots. Let us know if you ever win Korea too.
You do realize the difference between total war and the Republican economy stimulous version of war don't you?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
You mean you ran out of Western Exceptionalist bullshit you cannot defend. You can't throw stones at Russia in eastern Europe when the U.S. overthrew a former republic on their border, dipshit.
> It says nothing about an exception for foreigners.
I'd argue that foreigners have no rights, period.
Okay, those who legally enter do have rights, but not certain ones like the right to vote. (Or run for office. Or...)
And then you have the illegals. The first amendment guarantees the right to assembly. Does that mean the immigration authorities can't round up a bunch of them at a protest? It would be ridiculous.
I see we reached the part of the conversation where you start blathering incoherently. If you could argue with any facts or reasoning, you would do so. But you can't, so you wont. Remember this when you're talking history with your grandkids and they ask you how people could be so unbelievably dumb as to by the Russiagate conspiracy theory, and you lie to them.