Apple Must Explain Why It Doesn't Want You To Fix Your Own iPhone, California Lawmaker Says (vice.com)

A California state lawmaker says she hopes to make Apple explain specifically why it has opposed and lobbied against legislation that would make it easier for you to repair your iPhone and other electronics. Motherboard reports: Last week, California assemblymember Susan Talamantes-Eggman announced that she plans to introduce right to repair legislation in the state, which would require companies like Apple, Microsoft, John Deere, and Samsung to sell replacement parts and repair tools, make repair guides available to the public, and would require companies to make diagnostic software available to independent shops. Public records show that Apple has lobbied against right to repair legislation in New York, and my previous reporting has shown that Apple has privately asked lawmakers to kill legislation in places like Nebraska. To this point, the company has largely used its membership in trade organizations such as CompTIA and the Consumer Technology Association to publicly oppose the bill. But with the right to repair debate coming to Apple's home state, Talamantes-Eggman says she expects the company to show up to hearings about the bill.

"Apple is a very important company in the state of California, and one I have a huge amount of respect for. But the onus is on them to explain why we can't repair our own things and what damage or danger it causes them," Talamantes-Eggman told me in a phone interview. Talamantes-Eggman told me that the bill she plans to introduce will apply to both consumer electronics as well as agricultural equipment such as tractors. Broadly speaking, the electronics industry has decided to go with an "authorized repair" model in which companies pay the original device manufacturer to become authorized to fix devices.

Comments

Dead simple

[r00t_of_all_evils]

If you buy a phone and fix it for 10 years, Apple doesn't make any money off of you for 10 years.

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

There is literally no other reason.

They will likely play the 'public safety' angle, but really no average or in experienced user is going to try it themselves. They will take it to a shop to do it for them, so that's a moot point.

Re:Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

What is the repairman swallow the screwdriver?

Re:Dead simple

[viperidaenz]

spare parts usually have quite high markup

It works out great for the auto industry.

Re: Dead simple

[Luthair]

Yup, cars have far more dangers than cellphones and yet it was decided many years ago that we didn't need car manufacturers to nanny us.

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

Lol right to repair. Once its passed apple will just double the amount of glue and ruinable parts in the phone and make it impossible. Try repairing two glued together paper towels and get back to me.

Re:Dead simple

[stevez67]

You can repair it now, but you void the warranty. Don't like the manufacturer's rules, buy something else. It's that simple.

Re: Dead simple

[sjames]

Then slap them with a tax or surcharge for creating an unusually large volume of e-waste.

Re:Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

If you buy a phone and fix it for 10 years, APL doesn't make quite as much money off you for 10 years.

You're still locked into their ecosystem. Wired headphones require a chip from them to work 100% (haven't looked up BT headsets). Any apps you buy must be through them. Any ads through said apps are through their ad service (even if they don't give it a name anymore). Speaking of which, good luck on their invasion of privacy. As APL fans are apt to say but is entirely incorrect, APL (like Google) is selling your information to provide ads.

@other AC: some repairs on some phones are actually user-doable if they're just a little bit careful. Replacing the glass surface if you have a hairdryer and replacement isn't as difficult as you might think.

Re:Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't like the manufacturer's rules, buy something else. It's that simple.

Yup, that's what I do.

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

IOS wont last in that phone for more than 5 years anyway, no matter if you can/cannot fix hardware. My 3rd gen ipad is incredible slow running ios 9, and some apps will not even work there (try AnyDesk). The "magical device" that Steve Jobs introduced is magically turning into a magical big paperweight.

So, planned obsolescence is worse than in the glory days of MS - at least my Windows system can sill run 32 bit apps.

g.

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

That is pretty much the only argument they can make other than blatantly explaining that they want to preserve their bottom line.

To keep people constantly buying the new phone, they will probably discontinue software updates on old phones.

If they can't squeeze your balls through proprietary hardware, they will do it through proprietary software.

captcha: intimacy

Re:Dead simple

[Holi]

Show me the manufacturer that does not void your warranty then you can tell me about choice.

Re:Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you think Apple started soldering and gluing everything into MacBooks a few years back? Before that, people could replace the hard drive with an SSD, upgrade the RAM and replace a failing battery without adding a cent to Apple's coffers, extending the usable life of the computers by years. With today's techniques, it becomes necessary to buy a whole new machine every few years as glued-in batteries fail and/or new OS and application requirements unnecessarily exceed "older" machines' limitations.

Re: Dead simple

[ELCouz]

Then the end result would by the consumer paying the e-waste tax. Way to go!

Re:Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are you calling it APL? It looks like you're going for the stock ticker label but that's AAPL.

Re: Dead simple

[cordovaCon83]

Haha I'm fine with the consumer paying the e-waste tax. People pay too much for those silly iPhones already. If you make the phone more expensive then less people will buy it and other phones that abide by the right-to-repair legislation will outpace iPhone sales and also cut the number of new cell phone sales overall.

Re:Dead simple

[msauve]

"You can repair it now, but you void the warranty."

Really? Try replacing the TouchID sensor on one.

Re: Dead simple

[ceoyoyo]

And yet I can't buy an oil filter wrench from my car dealer. I'm all for a law that says a manufacturer can't *impede* a third party (including individuals) who want to do FSM knows what to their property, but requiring that every company actually provide a full suite of tools and instructions for how to do so seems a bit far.

Also, where do you draw the line? Do all electronics manufacturers have to sell desolder stations and BGA soldering instructions?

Re:Dead simple

[ceoyoyo]

I've repaired Apple devices and later taken them for Apple warranty service. If you do your own repairs they CAN void the warranty, but that doesn't mean they do, unless the damage is likely due to your repair job. Running over your phone repeatedly with a steam roller also voids the warranty.

Re:Dead simple

[FatdogHaiku]

spare parts usually have quite high markup

It works out great for the auto industry.

Johnny Cash had an answer for that...
Larceny !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ws-_syszg84

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

What? Seriously? Buy one from advanced auto. If Apple uses a proprietary tool to open devices, then it should provide that tool for sale, or let other companies sell the tool. Like how advanced auto sells tools and parts for your car.

I'm not sure what argument you are making. Your post has no substance.

Re: Dead simple

[msauve]

The requirement would be to make required, proprietary tools available, not ones which are readily obtained elsewhere.

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

... if they sell custom repair equipment to anyone? Yes. They must. a hot air rework station is a commodity, but, for example, the old Roomba 3 sided screwdrivers for rebuilding battery packs, absolutely, they should be required to sell those. They should not be allowed to maliciously prevent repair by requiring custom tools.

Car dealers are already doing this with non-standard license only software through the OBDII port to fix things, and that's bullshit.

Re:Dead simple

[K. S. Kyosuke]

Indeed; APL makes even less money off you since everyone uses Matlab, Octave, and Python these days.

Re:Dead simple

[Registered Coward v2]

Car manufacturers can’t void your warranty unless you do something that damages the vehicle. I can, or an independent mechanic can, change the oil or replace the brakes without voiding the warranty. Of course, the increasing use of sophisticated diagnostic tools, such as those that require registering a new battery on a BMW, for example, means even what once were simple repairs now require buying a third party diagnostic tool to properly complete a repair.

Even something as simple as installing a Bluetooth module on a BMW requires reprogramming the vehicle order to recognize it, even if the car was prewired for the installation, which means either getting a bootleg version of BMW’s software and fiquring out how to code the car without messing up the electronics, so you still must go to a dealer and either pay them or hope they fo it for free as part of other work. Apple code do something similar; i.e. you can fix it yourself but need to buy our (expensive) software to make the fix work.

I did buy a tool to fix my cars, but will probably buy a vintage car next so I can still fix it myself. Then again, my dad was a mechanic so I learned how to fix them and have most of the commmon tools I need to do that; and judging by my anecdotal experience most of my neighbors won’t even open the hood. I’ve fixed minor problems for them that would have cost them a hundred bucks just to have a dealer run a diagnostic before they actually repaired what was wrong.

Re: Dead simple

[sjames]

Or buying a phone with comparable features that complies with the right to repair from someone else and avoiding the tax. Or Apple accepting a smaller profit in order to make their glueball cost about as much as a similar compliant phone.

Re: Dead simple

[ceoyoyo]

So which proprietary tools are required to make reasonable repairs to a smartphone, that aren't readily obtained elsewhere?

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet I can't buy an oil filter wrench from my car dealer. I'm all for a law that says a manufacturer can't *impede* a third party (including individuals) who want to do FSM knows what to their property, but requiring that every company actually provide a full suite of tools and instructions for how to do so seems a bit far.

They shouldn't be required to make the tools, but they should be required to spell out the specifications so others can build their own tools. An oil filter isn't a black box and making a good-enough clone is reasonable possible. But inherently manufacturers like Apple do impede others from making replacement parts by introducing signing keys, burnt fuses, etc. The "better" solution would be to simply not buy from Apple, but even with cars which are arguably in a more competitive market there's right to repair laws. With something like software or hardware that is difficult or impossible to repair without the vendor's help, it seems like it should be a requirement to document how it generally works.

Either that, or we can just remove all of copyright and patents, and we can just let it be a free-for-all. The whole point of those provisions were so that the arts and sciences would be open. If it's a given that a 20+ year old iPhone will be a brick and there's no information on how it works to repair it, then clearly the system isn't working.

Re:Dead simple

[PopeRatzo]

spare parts usually have quite high markup

Yeah, but there's a difference. Anyone who has repaired electronics like an iPhone knows that the parts inside are incredibly inexpensive. The last thing that Apple wants you to know is that all the parts of an iPhone cost like $15. It might make some people less willing to pay $1000.

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

For example if they used a patented screw head that could only be removed with an iScrewdriver, they would have to allow others to make that special screwdriver to sell, or would have to sell them themselves.

Re: Dead simple

[msauve]

Cars were brought into the discussion, opening it beyond phones. Your own argument used cars. Other than the fact that your argument had no merit, why are you now trying to restrict the discussion to phones?

But, to answer your question with just one example, you can't replace the TouchID fingerprint sensor on an iPhone without a special Apple tool/software.

Re:Dead simple

[Pieroxy]

Wow. So many lies. Let's try and fix that:

Wired headphones require a chip from them to work 100%

Nope they don't. It's simple analog connectivity, even for the remote (volume plus one button)

Any apps you buy must be through them

True. But you have a fair share of free apps though, which does not require you to buy anything.

Any ads through said apps are through their ad service

Nope. Plenty of third party Sdks or APIs provide ads that Apple has nothing to do with. iAd is dead and even when alive, it was not a requirement to go through them.

Speaking of which, good luck on their invasion of privacy

Being one of the only GAFA company that makes zero money off of your data, I am fairly confident that there is no other company in this selected group I'd rather place my data with.

APL (like Google) is selling your information to provide ads

Apple do not provide ads. iAd is dead. What are you talking about? Cookies? They just killed third party cookies on all their browser. Idfa? True they provide a unique identifier for their phones to apps so that they can identify a device. That's hardly selling your information.

Disclaimer: I own an iPhone which is the only Apple thing I've ever owned. This does not make me a fan, but I try and stay objective. Apple has a lot of horrible flaws, but your list is just ridiculous. Why not attacking them on their drawbacks instead of spreading lies?

Re:Dead simple

[angel'o'sphere]

Luckily we have no such retarded warranty laws in Europe :D

Re:Dead simple

[tlhIngan]

You can repair it now, but you void the warranty. Don't like the manufacturer's rules, buy something else. It's that simple.

Anyone who's worked a customer service desk knows this - warranty fraud is rampant.

We're not talking about the lame ass buy-a-new-product return-old-product-inside-it trick, but customers lie through their teeth. You can have a laptop that's fallen into the pool, or bathrub, or whatever, and is dripping water all over the return counter, and the customer will say there is no water damage.

And most people are incompetent. Just think about your time fixing software issues. Now figure out what happens when you unleash them to fix hardware problems too. The old butterknife screwdriver is the least of your problems.

Think about it - a site like iFixit - probably the biggest pusher for right to repair, doesn't really want you do it. I mean, if they did, why don't they warrant their products? You buy it, you try to fix it, it doesn't work, why can't you return it? It's almost as if they know if they sell you a cable to fix your iPhone, you're going to return them the damaged one and claim they shipped you a bad one.

And it doesn't cover even things like security - TouchID and FaceID sensors are paired with the phone so people don't swap them. Why? Because if you swap them, you could swap them with "evil" versions of the sensors that record (and transmit) your fingerprint and facial data to a third party who may use it to log into your phone when you're not around. Since this is specialized tech, you can assume it would be a state agency that does this. That would be the deepest of ironies - the FBI uses the law to force Apple to make it so they can break in.

And what about stuff that's safety related? If you replace the battery yourself and it causes the phone to catch on fire, is Apple responsible? Even an official first party battery can be problematic with a fat-fingered person prodding it with their butterknife screwdriver.

I'm guessing we'll see the return of the "warranty void if broken" sticker. Because right now, there's an IQ test in place for people fixing their stuff. And if you think it's ridiculous, well, you haven't seen what the public can do. If you fix computers for a living, you know exactly the people who are going to try to fix their stuff.

Re:Dead simple

[Rick Schumann]

'Planned obsolescence'. If they thought it was a good idea, your iPhone (and lots of other things from lots of other companies) would just be a block of black epoxy underneath the outer shell, and when it stops working, you chuck it in the e-waste bin. Hell, if some companies had their way, there'd be a literal self-destruct timer built into things, and it'd just stop working after, say, 3 years (or 2, or 1), no 'repair' possible, you just toss it and get a new one.

Re: Dead simple

[Rick Schumann]

BGA packaged devices had nothing to do with planned obsolescence or deterring people from repairing their own devices, it had to do with component density and PCB size, and you can spend the thousands of dollars that hot air rework equipment costs, and even get the training on how to use it, but it likely wouldn't benefit you because while it's simple enough to remove a BGA package IC, installing the replacement is an order of magnitude more difficult to do correctly, always carries a measurable chance of complete failure, and you literally have one shot at getting it right, after which you have to remove the device and start over with a new one, or send it out to have the solder balls replaced, and hope that the heat didn't damage or destroy it. This is why on a case-by-case basis it's not cost-effective to repair PCBs that use BGA packaged devices, it's only cost-effective in a large-scale assembly-line setting, more or less like the factory that assembled the PCB when it was new. You could conceivably use sockets for everything instead and make replacing devices simple, but then you'd have an iPhone that's 2 or 3 times as thick. Even when cutting-edge was QFP (quad flat pack) with hundreds of wire leads coming out all 4 edges, it wasn't trivial to remove and replace a device, and I've done it.

Re: Dead simple

[omnichad]

Your Windows system can be migrated to a lightweight, still-secure alternative OS. Whether that's some variation of Linux or Chromium OS. Apple locks the "owner" out of their hardware - which should be part of right to repair.

Re:Dead simple

[omnichad]

They can try, but the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act will hold up in court if you go that far. They just know you can't afford a lawyer.

Re: Dead simple

[ChunderDownunder]

There must be some environmental impact on destroying old phones for scrap or landfilling them.

Is there a re-sale market for iPhones? There must be millions of perfectly usable phones off a 24 month contract slowed only by Apple's policies on battery degradation.

I just 'upgraded' my mother to a second hand, mint condition, Galaxy S4 off ebay - running LineageOS 14.1 it's still better than any nasty $AU80 phone sold by retailers and a $10 battery every 18 months will see her hold out until the 5G era. (The S5 and Note 4 still seem to extract a premium as Samsung's ultimate flagships with user-removable batteries if anyone is interested in making $AU150-200 for something gathering dust in a desk drawer)

Re:Dead simple

[guacamole]

But strangely, Apple provides operating system updates for its mobile products for roughly five years and still makes a whole lot of money. There is no need to fix an older iphone or ipad because they're just too slow at that point.

Re: Dead simple

[sjames]

I suspect there is quite an impact to that. I'm also fairly sure older iPhones in refurbished condition would enjoy a significant market. Apple itself sells them.

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

Expect there are a ton of car brands (Tesla) that ban you from working on your own car.

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

Whatever the Apple version of ODIN is, for one, and default original ROM images to reflash bricked phones.

And I bet you thought everyone would respond with pentalobe screwdrivers....

Re:Dead simple

[Ogive17]

Not as high as you think. Takes a lot of infrastructure to provide OE parts a decade after production ended for a vehicle.

Re:Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

If you fix an iPhone with a piece of AWG 22 wire found in the shed and then trade the phone in...then yes, this is why Apple doesn't want you to fix your phone.

Also, fire and explosions are things.

Re:Dead simple

[viperidaenz]

.... which is why spare parts are sold at high markup.
If you tried to assemble a $20,000 car from spare parts at retail price, you'd probably end up spending $1,000,000.
You wouldn't be able to do it though, since you can't buy a spare monocoque chassis.

Re:Dead simple

[PopeRatzo]

.... which is why spare parts are sold at high markup.

I've gone to a local junkyard and got a perfectly good fuel pump for approximately $5,

Re: Dead simple

[ceoyoyo]

Sorry? Maybe you're not following. The law proposes that manufacturers will have to provide tools to repair their devices. Someone mentioned that cars were subject to similar regulations. I mentioned (in passing) that I can't buy an oil filter wrench from my car dealer. You stated that only "proprietary" tools are required. If true (do you have anything to back up that statement?) then it nicely covers the oil filter wrench example. So I asked you, which proprietary tools are required to fix a smartphone?

By your hostility I'm thinking maybe you can't think of one?

Re: Dead simple

[ceoyoyo]

Yeah, I have a friend who has a decent record resoldering BGAs. I was never able to do it at all.

I think the cases have much more in common than you suggest. BGAs, and more inconvenient packages in general, *were* introduced to make things more compact. They have the side effect of making boards essentially unrepairable. You can replace through hole components no problem; surface mount is usually okay, for someone with some expertise; BGA... not even close to worth it.

Phones never had ZIF sockets and through hole components because those things aren't really compatible with something you carry around with you. Manufacturers traded repairability for form factor. Phones used to have swappable batteries too. Most manufacturers quit making them because they weren't compatible with more compact and energy hungry devices. I think LG made the last swappable battery smartphone... it wasn't terribly successful and they discontinued it.

Re: Dead simple

[gweihir]

You can buy that wrench legally in a lot of places. If unsure, try Ebay and have it delivered from China. The car dealer is not really the right source for tools and replacement parts. The situation would be different, if a specific wrench was required and only the car manufacturer made them. Then it would be entirely reasonable to require the car manufacturer to sell it in some acceptable way at an acceptable price. That could well be mail-order, does not need to be the car dealer at all.

What you are apparently confused about is the distinction between general tools and information available on the open market from several sources and specialized tools that are not. This line is a pretty clear one.

Re:Dead simple

[gweihir]

There is a difference between people being incompetent and manufacturers making repair intentionally hard or impossible. Remember the fingerprint sensor that if replaced would brick a phone later? That has nothing to do with incompetence on the side of the person doing the repair.

Re: Dead simple

[BronsCon]

So I asked you, which proprietary tools are required to fix a smartphone?

By your hostility I'm thinking maybe you can't think of one?

Oh, but he already gave you one:

But, to answer your question with just one example, you can't replace the TouchID fingerprint sensor on an iPhone without a special Apple tool/software.

Re: Dead simple

[Xtifr]

Only consumers foolish enough to buy Apple products. And frankly, publicizing the fact that you have to pay extra for e-waste disposal with an iProduct would hit them dead center in their liberal/hippy treehugging fanbase.

Re: Dead simple

[ChunderDownunder]

My Windows 10 machine (bought from a pawn-shop with a recently flashed Win7 license - hopefully no spyware!) dates from 2008 and is perfectly *adequate*; a quieter fan and a more powerful GPU would be the main reasons to upgrade but I'd have to upgrade my dual monitor setup too!

Is there anything a 2018 smartphone with an octa-core 64bit chip and 6GB RAM won't accomplish in 5 years? 5G and Vulkan 2.0 will be on the horizon but unless you really need 8K video recording, we'll have reached peak smartphone soon enough.

Re:Dead simple

[HalAtWork]

I used to buy Macbooks because of the hardware (good build quality, customizable), now I stopped buying them because of the hardware (competitors have evolved far past flimsy creaky plastic and LEDs all over the place, Macbooks no longer customizable)

Re:Dead simple

[ChunderDownunder]

Manufacturers' warranties typically only last up to 2 years. Yes, you can purchase a warranty extension but it should be possible to replace a $15 battery without paying $50-100 to somebody utilizing a sonic screwdriver to open the case (or engaging battery-regulating software without informing the user.)

But clickbait aside, I'm not sure why the rage is directed solely at Apple. Being a market leader, Android manufacturers tend to follow suit with every user-hostile feature removal. To buy something else implies other OEMs aren't doing the same.

Re: Dead simple

[omnichad]

Since we're talking about the iPhone with a locked bootloader in this thread - yes. It won't be secure. The speed isn't the issue.

Re: Dead simple

[msauve]

"maybe you can't think of one?"

I not only can think of one, but I wrote it out for you. You simply can't read one.

Re: Dead simple

[ceoyoyo]

Agreed. That's my point. Generally requiring that a manufacturer provide all the tools necessary to repair their product is silly.

So can you give an example of a specialized repair tool you think the smartphone manufacturers should provide?

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

The point here is that advanced auto sells the tools, not Audi, or Chevrolet. Why should Apple be forced to sell the tool when BMW isnâ(TM)t?

Re: Dead simple

[ceoyoyo]

Apple has specifically addressed that particular item. The encryption keys necessary to get a phone to recognize a new fingerprint sensor are not publicly available (or available to any repair agent, IIRC) because then anyone could defeat the security on the phone.

I guess that's the only example? If that's it, this seems like not much more than a government grab for circumvention devices, in which case I hope manufacturers create special publicly available keys for California.

Re: Dead simple

[Khyber]

" I mentioned (in passing) that I can't buy an oil filter wrench from my car dealer."

Gee maybe because the car dealer deals with SELLING CARS. If you wanted a part, you'd go to their REPAIR CENTER.

I mean, fuck I needed a B-pillar seatbelt bolt for my 2002 Explorer. I didn't walk into the dealership, I went to the service center on the side of the dealership and got the goddamned part.

Do you even gearhead?

Re: Dead simple

[Khyber]

"while it's simple enough to remove a BGA package IC, installing the replacement is an order of magnitude more difficult to do correctly"

Maybe for you, who likely holds no reasonable amount of experience.

Any half-competent heat-gun solder tech could do the entirety of the board rework by hand with a 90+% fix rate.

It's harder to remove a working BGA component and to keep it intact than it is to install. Fresh solder paste has a lower melting point versus melted and hardened solder.

Experience (and metallurgical facts) matter, sonny boy.

Re: Dead simple

[snakeplissken]

I just 'upgraded' my mother

You just upgraded your mother?
That's a bit oedipal isn't it?

Re:Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

Kinda like code that slows down your phone when the battery ages?

Re: Dead simple

[Rick Schumann]

Wow, you're totally and completely talking out of your ass, hilariously so.

Re: Dead simple

[BronsCon]

Apple used a fair bit of doublespeak to make it sound like that's what they were saying, and it does make sense absent their own explanation of how the sensor works. The sensor generates a hash and sends that hash to the secure enclave, where a comparison is done and a "match/no-match" response is given to the CPU; at least, according to Apple. So, if they did, indeed, say what you say they said... they're lying. They're either lying about why Error 53 was implemented, or they're lying about how the fingerprint sensor works. One way or the other, they're lying... or you're wrong.

If you're wrong, they don't have that argument. If they're lying, that will come out as well when Apple complies with the legal demands which are currently being made of them. Either way, it doesn't hold up in their favor.

Re: Dead simple

[tsa]

Then people will buy el cheapo Android phones that last for a year max, increasing e-waste a lot more. Thanks!

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you buy the socket and wrench for that bolt from either the dealership or service centre? Because that is what the OP was referring to - a tool, not a part.

Do you even read?

Re: Dead simple

[Khyber]

No, I'm not, as I've worked in multiple repair depots doing EXACTLY THAT.

Please try again when you've actually got IRS-verifiable work experience to back up your claims.

Re: Dead simple

[Khyber]

In fact, I just asked if I could borrow the tools (ratchet and socket) and they were provided.

Do you even customer service?

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

They dont need to sell them but they should not be able to stop their supplyers to sell to other parties

Re:Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no need to fix an older iphone or ipad because they're just too slow at that point.

Exactly. and that slowness is planned obsolescence at its worst. People think the old device is 'kind of slow' but that is a lie. A 5 year old iPhone is every bit as fast as when it was new, except Apple deliberately makes it run slower. Slowdown timer instead of self destruct timer.

Re:Dead simple

[MoarSauce123]

Sure they will by selling replacement parts that are essentially as expensive as a new phone.

Re: Dead simple

[DarkVader]

You can't buy an oil filter wrench from the dealer? I mean, I'm not sure why you would unless you had a car with a particularly interesting oil filter, but yes, you can absolutely buy an oil filter wrench from the dealer. Here's a Mercedes one: https://www.mbpartscenter.com/...

That's right, it's a genuine MB OEM oil filter wrench. You can go to a MB dealer and buy one, they might have to special order it for you. Not all car manufacturers make their own oil filter wrenches, in fact most don't. But the ones that do will cheerfully sell them to you.

Want to buy Ford's tools? You can get them from a dealer, or you can get them from their official site here: https://rotunda.service-soluti... You can buy (ridiculously expensive, but it's there) access to the diagnostic and documentation system here: https://www.motorcraftservice....

Re: Dead simple

[DarkVader]

Chevrolet doesn't sell tools? https://gmtoolsandequipment.co...

Audi doesn't? https://audi.snapon.com/Home.a... (Ok, they outsource their specialty tool business to Snap-On, but that's who sells them to Audi dealers too.)

Look, the reality is that virtually all car manufacturers have a tool sales channel that will sell you the specialty tools you need if you want to work on your own car or set up your own car repair business.

So why should Apple not be forced to do the same?

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

Ford will cheerfully sell you a socket set with their logo on it.

You'd be kind of an idiot to buy it from them, but you can if you want.

I mean, their dealers are using Snap-On tools, but hey, Ford branded ones are there for sale if you want to buy them, from a dealer or from Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Ford-FM...

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple doesn't make the pentalobe screwdrivers. They do sell them to their dealers, along with the ridiculous torque drivers they also don't make for the new laptops.

They also sell their dealers the proprietary service fixture to take the bottom case off of one of those laptops, and the proprietary safety battery cover to be used once the case is off. Nobody else sells those.

And they don't sell anybody but their own stores the tool to activate a new home button.

It's absolutely ridiculous. They absolutely should have to make the tools available.

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

So... A person wanting a $1,000 iPhone X will switch to a $150 Android if the iPhone X goes up in price by 20%?

I don't often call people fucking retards, but I think in this case it's warranted.

Re:Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

You've obviously never heard of chipping your car. This is a common practice among performance car owners. No tools are needed beyond what anyone who hacks ECU's needs. These are possessed by many electronics hobbyists.
Instructions are readily available on the Internet.
Whether it voids your warranty or not is not open for discussion. The Magnuson Moss Warranty act says the manufacturer must prove the warranty work needed must be caused by the chip. So if your airbags have a warranty defect the fact you chipped the car won't allow the manufacturer to void your coverage for that fault.

Re: Dead simple

[reanjr]

Given how much they try to convince everyone iOS is better than Android because they keep getting updates, I highly doubt Apple would destroy one of their own selling points.

Re: Dead simple

[Anonymous Coward]

Vote with your wallet. I don't buy these products that are designed as tiered money grabs.

Ultimately for smart phones it really doesn't matter that much because all Apple has to do and what many phone manufacturers do is simply phase out OS software updates regularly so the latest apps won't run on your phone, even if the underlying hardware can sufficiently run them, there's too many hurdles in place for application developers to fool with when they're constantly chasing the carrot of shiny new.

Apple can even find ways of shutting off appstore access to older OS's in the name of security. While there's ways around these methods, the hassle is too high for most users, especially the typical Apple clientelle who want to have products that 'just work.'

Re: Dead simple

[Rick Schumann]

I've got around 30 years of experience working in all phases of electronics, including design. You're some jackass on the Internet making wild claims about things you clearly don't understand and have precisely ZERO experience with, otherwise you'd know what sort of equipment you need to deal with R&R of BGA type packages, because it is NOT a 'heat gun' (like you use for stripping paint, you idiot).

You're probably some kid who used the 'toaster oven' trick to fix the RRoD failure of your gaming console, and now you think you know about electronics. By all means keep embarassing yourself if you like.

Re: Dead simple

[Khyber]

"R&R of BGA type packages, because it is NOT a 'heat gun'"

Bullshit. It's is exactly like a heat gun, but with a tiny-ass fan for airflow instead of a large one. Did plenty of BGA rework at solectron global, thank you

"You're probably some kid who used the 'toaster oven' trick to fix the RRoD failure of your gaming console"

No, I have an actual IR reflow oven, but it's not needed because I grew up doing boardwork starting at age 8, which gives me almost 28 years of experience, now. I can use a regular 1200w heat gun and have 95% effective repair rates.

I repair LCD panels, too, using not much more than conductive glue (biggest panel-related failure besides cracked screen is the edge IC. Did repair at A&D electronics.)

I also repair LED strips and boards for a couple of aquarium and grow lighting companies.

I also do jewelry work, so I have a huge amount of metallurgical expertise. I've probably handled more compositions of solder than you can actually imagine. I also make my own flux.

Oh, and I do electroplating/etching, including PCB construction. And chemical reclaiming/refining of precious metals from old PCBs to be reused in new ones.

I'm the very damned definition of 'vertical integration' and I know hucksters like you when I see them.

Re: Dead simple

[Rick Schumann]

LOL you actually use a goddamned paint-stripping gun to do board rework? You're clearly and objectively either an amateur or a troll. Now go yell at your monitor some more, I'm done with you.

Re: Dead simple

[gweihir]

Special screwdrivers, instructions how to open and re-close clued connections, firmware diagnostic access software, special diagnostic connectors, schematics, devices that tell the phone "you have been repaired, the new components are fine", data backup and restore software and so on. And, of course, replacement parts for all parts that are curome designed like bezels, glass, buttons, display, batteries, etc.

A manufacturer can easily get out of most of these by using standard parts. There is a second problem though: some manufacturers will move to devices they cannot repair themselves. For that I would just mandate a bright-red large sticker "This device cannot be repaired" and let the market sort it out.

Re:Dead simple

[viperidaenz]

Your anecdote doesn't change the fact the service department of any car dealership is the most profitable part of the business and the OEM spare parts departments of car manufacturers are also extremely profitable.

Re: Dead simple

[retchdog]

but they really complement my rear window decal of Calvin pissing on a Chevy logo!

Re: Dead simple

[cordovaCon83]

Remind me to never go car shopping with you.

Re: Dead simple

[Khyber]

You're a complete fucking moron to not have seen a digital heat gun with exchangeable tips for all sorts of work. Let me guess, you're one of those amateurs with a shit Hakko station.

You simply don't fucking work in electronics repair, I can tell.

Offical reason versus real reason.

[Anonymous Coward]

Everyone already knows both answers.

The public "official" answer will have to do with brand quality and not tainting their image by allowing inferior unauthorized work to be done, thereby artificially making the units statistically less reliable.

The real reason which they won't say publicly, is because obviously they want to sell you a newer phone.

Re:Offical reason versus real reason.

[mikael]

They don't want the overhead of having to support multiple versions of hardware and ending up like the PC market.

Re: Offical reason versus real reason.

[Anonymous Coward]

"ending up like the PC market."

You mean the market that's been eating apples lunch since the beginning?

Re:Offical reason versus real reason.

[Registered Coward v2]

They don't want the overhead of having to support multiple versions of hardware and ending up like the PC market.

They still could EOL older machines, just like car manufactirers do. Parts for some older vehicles are no longer available, although the life cycle is longer for cars than computers. A large third party source of suppliers has arisen around making parts no longer available from manufacturers for vehicle long out of production; especially for cars popular with enthusiasts. Specialized trim pieces seem to buy the hardest to find, which is why I recommend buying a compete set of decals for a vehicle that has a unique set if they plan to keep the car forever; even if they decide to sell it they can either include it and get a few extra bucks or sell it to someone restoring one.

Re:Offical reason versus real reason.

[Anonymous Coward]

I would imagine that making cars like phones or operating systems would be a car maker's wet dream. Imagine: you go out one morning, hop in and discover that you can't start your car because it "is at end of life" or similar bs - or that the top speed and/or acceleration has been reduced "to help preserve your worn engine" when trying to merge onto a freeway - and rather than getting hopping mad consumers blindly accept this, tow their car to the nearest same-brand dealer and shell out an exhorbitant amount for the newer, shinier, almost entirely identical model. I mean electric car makers are trying to push a similar model but I'm guessing people will push back pretty hard.

(With regard to trim and decals: I like my car, service it regularly and intend to keep it indefinitely, but I also accept that the cosmetic bits will accumulate a little patina over time. No point wasting money on stuff like that).

Re:Offical reason versus real reason.

[Anonymous Coward]

True; apple can barely keep the few little machines they make bug free. Can you imaging the mayhem if apple had to support as many machines as Windows does.

Hmmmmm

[Anonymous Coward]

Where's the cake, Eggman?

Re:Hmmmmm

[ChunderDownunder]

The walrus ate it.

Coo Coo Ca Choo.

Re:Hmmmmm

[Tablizer]

At first that tune just sounded weird to me. But after several listens it started clicking and I now consider it one of the greatest pop-tunes ever written.

Real story

[ThePhish]

California elected a person who can't figure out how companies make money... and now wants legislation.

Re:Real story

[Anonymous Coward]

No, California elected a person who knows how to get a bribe....

Re:Real story

[taustin]

Actually, California elected someone who knows exactly how companies make money, and isn't having any of it.

You cannot possibly underestimate how much the California legislature hates business in all forms. My employer has state inspectors dig through their trash cans looking for burnt out light bulbs.

Re: Real story

[Anonymous Coward]

Lie much? You reek of bullshit.

Re: Real story

[taustin]

You've clearly never run a business in California. (And almost certainly would fail if you tried, here or anywhere.)

I repaired my iPhone5

[Anonymous Coward]

I had an iPhone5 with an expanded battery that pushed the display out of its case. For $50, I bought a display, battery and "repair kit" from eBay. After watching an internet video 3 times, I was able to repair it, breaking the camera in the process. For another $5, I got a camera from eBay & replaced the broken camera. I was able to use it for a number of years before the charging connector failed. I'm still thinking about repairing it.
    As a degreed EE, though, who has worked for some of the high-tech firms (not Apple), I can kind of understand Apple's position. Suppose the battery I bought from eBay had shorted & burned up the phone. Suppose I left a metal fragment in there which shorted one of the I/O pins when I needed to call 911. A repair shop which has nothing to do for a few days might figure out a software mod which causes problems later, etc. Years ago, computers became too complex for component repair and companies went to board repair. With cellphones today, even board repair is difficult -- the best route for a company like Apple is to offer a pretty good trade-in value for a new phone.

Re:I repaired my iPhone5

[Anonymous Coward]

I can kind of understand Apple's position. Suppose the battery I bought from eBay had shorted & burned up the phone. Suppose I left a metal fragment in there which shorted one of the I/O pins when I needed to call 911.

Can't-make-a-911-call example is a joke compared to what might happen if I don't bother to tighten the lug nuts on the wheel that I'm allowed to change on my car. All the dead and injured people on the highway are why you want to call 911.

Yet we're still allowed to repair cars.

Pretty much the only way you're going to have a phone failure be as bad as the routine auto repair risks that we already accept, is to take that phone on a plane and have an overly-rapid battery discharge. So use such an example next time.

Re:I repaired my iPhone5

[Anonymous Coward]

It is illegal to repair a Tesla by yourself.

Re:I repaired my iPhone5

[Anonymous Coward]

No it isn't.

Why would you say something that idiotic?

She's obviously been paid off

[Anonymous Coward]

"Apple is a very important company in the state of California, and one I have a huge amount of respect for. But the onus is on them to explain why we can't repair our own things and what damage or danger it causes them."

Which means that Susan Talamantes-Eggman has already decided that her "right to repair" legislation is not going to apply to Apple.

My ideal phone upgrade

[llamalad]

Can I get an iphone that's more durable and has a removable battery?

I'm willing to accept it being double the weight and thickness; I bet with the extra structure they can also improve its durability and let me keep my damned headphone jack.

Re:My ideal phone upgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't about batteries. It's about other peripherals, like the fingerprint scanner.

The fingerprint scanner is securely paired with a device at assembly time and you can't replace them without a key to bless a new one. This is to prevent using the scanner connection as vector for breaking in to the device.

Apple, natrually, doesn't want to have to worry about opening up and documenting (Sanitizing, securing) a bunch of formerly private internal interfaces. It'll cost them a lot of money and headaches.

Re:My ideal phone upgrade

[erapert]

Can I get a sports car that takes regular gasoline and seats four people? I'm fine with doubling the weight or whatever to just get what I want.

Then buy a Honda Civic.

You want an iPhone that's more durable and has a removable battery? Did you check the Android aisle?
The whole point of the iPhone is the sleekness, the design, the brand. If you're not into that then you're not into the iPhone and you need to stop kidding yourself.

Re:My ideal phone upgrade

[Tool Man]

Yup, ditto for laptops, which are at least historically more fixable. My mid-2012 MBP needed the battery replaced, which required going to a service place that replaced (as a unit) the top case, battery, keyboard and trackpad. Fine, at least I get a less-grungy keyboard, right? Then the charging circuit died on the main board. I *could* have gotten that fixed too, to still have an out-of-warranty, non-upgradeable device with a bunch of stuck pixels on the display.

So I went and bought a Lenovo P50, with a better keyboard, socketed RAM and multiple drive bays. Dual-boots Linux, works like a champ. And it feels like MINE.

Re:My ideal phone upgrade

[Dixie_Flatline]

I'm NOT willing to accept it being double the weight and thickness. I've never had an iPhone fail on me for reasons of durability, though. I admit that I keep a thin, $12 case on the back (just the back, nothing covering the screen) and I kept my iPhone 4 for 4 years, my iPhone 6 for 3 years (only 3 because it was stolen), and I've had my iPhone 7 for about 6 months.

The batteries in my iPhones did begin to fail around year 3, but that's chemistry.

So given all of these things, I STILL think that making 1st party parts (i.e., batteries) and technical guides should be the law of the land. I love my phones, but I don't love the waste they produce (one of the many reasons I keep them for 4 years at a time if I can) and I don't think anyone should have a problem with a shop being able to repair a device. If Apple's concern is that 3rd party parts are going to infiltrate the system, they should make sure 1st party parts are available, even if they're more expensive. I would certainly pay more for an Apple-certified battery or TouchID sensor or what have you.

There's nothing wrong with the phones Apple is making, honestly, even from a repairability standpoint. They're certainly a lot better than their laptops. Just let us have the parts and repair guide. People will STILL bring their phones into an Apple Store, just like lots of people bring their cars back to the dealer. Apple can honestly only win in this scenario, assuming they actually care about the user experience as they claim they do.

Re:My ideal phone upgrade

[angel'o'sphere]

iPhone is about iOS, and Android phones don't run iOS.

So what exactly is your point?

Re:My ideal phone upgrade

[AmiMoJo]

You are lucky, or a very light user.

My fiancee and all her friends and family have iPhones. All heavy users. Batteries typically last around 18 to 24 months, which is what you would expect. The batteries they use are good for about 500 cycles, and because they are relatively small average about one a day.

Being thicker and more damage resistant would be a great benefit to them. They all have chunky cases and screen protectors to protect their fragile phones anyway. The naked phones are very slippery and the front and back are literally glass.

Re:My ideal phone upgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah ... 2 years of good battery life is way worst than the normal 8 to 10 months you get with most Android phones. Oh hell, I don't know of a single Samsung Galaxy owner that didn't end up having battery issues after just 6 month of ownership (and light usage).

Re:My ideal phone upgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

While I was developing a few apps, I have even tested apps heavily on my 4S which I bought end of 2011, and still I could use it without much hassle up until end of 2016 before switching to 7+. It still has some juice left even though it is still fitted with the original battery it came with. Now 6, 7, 8 and X got larger and if it gets thickness, it would be too much handful and would lost usability for f**k's sake. If you want chunky, use something else, sh*t

Re:My ideal phone upgrade

[Jason1729]

More durable and a removable battery. Sounds like it may last more than 2 years before ending up in a landfill, Apple can never allow that.

And a headphone jack will cost Apple a fortune in lost sales of wireless headphones with non-removable batteries that also end up in the landfill in 2 years.

Why do you want to help the environment and hurt corporate profits, are you some kind of hippie commie? /sarcasm

Re:My ideal phone upgrade

[theadamtron]

The LG V20 has a removable battery, a headphone jack and one of the best sounding available on a smartphone.

Re:My ideal phone upgrade

[llamalad]

Sadly, android's pro-advertising security model is not satisfactory. :-(

It's a shame that Apple can't cater to different niches with better differentiation than cheap/mainstream/uber-expensive.

I'm interested to see whether my new Gemini (modern Psion notebook with 4g) with Linux can do adequate smartphone duties.

Re: My ideal phone upgrade

[Anonymous Coward]

'Cause there's only one phone for sale...

Re:My ideal phone upgrade

[Urinal Pube]

The LG V20 has a removable battery, a headphone jack and one of the best sounding available on a smartphone.

V20 is hands down, the best phone currently on the market. The fact that you can get one new for barely over $200 is amazing.

Re:My ideal phone upgrade

[Dixie_Flatline]

I use my phone a lot during the day, every day. It sits in a dock on my desk a lot, but I've certainly had days where I'm down to 30% before noon. It's plugged in over night while I have a sleep tracker running.

I take my phone cycling with me, it's in my pocket (and sometimes in my hand) during the winter, where the temperature occasionally gets near -30C. I dunno, I think I'm a pretty average user. (My iPhone 3G actually survived my being hit by a car and being thrown from my pocket without much damage, and an intact screen. It only had a fairly light case on it.)

I'd say I'm pretty hard on my phone. I've dropped this one a few times on hard tile, and it's only 6 months old. It's surprising how far a thin plastic case'll get you.

The chances of such legislation passing

[Streetlight]

The chances of such legislation passing the California, or any other state legislature, depends on how many legislators Apple has bought. I'm sure Apple's out shopping now.

Re:The chances of such legislation passing

[Trailer Trash]

It's California. Apple already owns the Democrat Party from their numerous donations over the years, so this is apparently a legislator who missed out on that and doesn't have his marching orders. This could turn out interesting.

Re:The chances of such legislation passing

[toadlife]

It's the "Democratic" Party, not the "Democrat" Party.

Re:The chances of such legislation passing

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me guess, you're one of the tools who says "Mac Oh Ess Ten" and "eye-phone Ten" as well.

No one cares what the "official" name is. The Democrat Party is the party made up of Democrats. Simple enough.

Re:The chances of such legislation passing

[Trailer Trash]

What I find funny about your comment is you don't even try to dispute the actual facts. You're supposed to be barfing up something stupid like "duh, everybody knows the Republicans are the party of big business."

Chicken, egg

[fyngyrz]

With cellphones today, even board repair is difficult

That's a consequence of toxic marketing driving intentionally poor design: too-thin phones, too-fragile connectors, non-replaceable batteries, screens without a reasonable bezel around them, etc.

There's no good reason at all a phone can't be designed to be easy to maintain, repair, use and carry.

Re: Chicken, egg

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck You!
I like the form factor of my phone. You'd have us go back to briefcase-sized cell phones just to be able to replace a DIP chip.
Miniaturization is here to stay.

Re:Chicken, egg

[Tablizer]

driving intentionally poor design: too-thin phones, too-fragile connectors, non-replaceable batteries, screens without a reasonable bezel around them, etc. There's no good reason at all a phone can't be designed to be easy to maintain, repair, use and carry.

There is a "reason" if your forte is selling sleek visually cool fashion accessories that double as smart-phones.

Re: Chicken, egg

[fyngyrz]

You'd have us go back to briefcase-sized cell phones just to be able to replace a DIP chip.

Hyperbole much, there, Mr/Ms AC?

Thanks for the laugh. :)

Re:Chicken, egg

[fyngyrz]

There is a "reason" if your forte is selling sleek visually cool fashion accessories that double as smart-phones.

Yes, there's a reason. But I said a good reason, which there isn't.

Re:Chicken, egg

[Tablizer]

To somebody who highly values beauty/coolness, it's "important" to them. I'm not making a value judgment on beauty here, only saying it's a key factor to many consumers.

Maybe if they knew there were a trade-off between beauty and repair-ability, they'd make a different decision. But that only happens in Ideal Land. Clueless consumers and clueless voters are the rule of the land. Humans be humans.

Re: Chicken, egg

[Anonymous Coward]

haha as if you didn't. you are funny

Re:Chicken, egg

[fyngyrz]

To somebody who highly values beauty/coolness, it's "important" to them.

...and...

only saying it's a key factor to many consumers.

Again, I don't disagree. However, I maintain that these do not in any way constitute good reasons to degrade a phone design. This is a device that your life could depend upon. That, from time to time, lives do depend upon. Because of this, I am convinced they should be rugged, reliable, and repairable, rather than be subject to overweening design constraints that reduce some combination of those characteristics.

Everyone's got an opinion. That one's mine. :)

Step Three

[Anonymous Coward]

Profit, obviously.

"Certified not tampered with"

[davidwr]

It doesn't apply to most consumer devices, but certain business/industrial uses require a guarantee the product's repair history is accurate and that the device has never been opened except for authorized, documented repairs.

It's not just the things like medical devices that are highly regulated already, but also things like phones used by police departments where their logs may be entered into evidence.

A good "compromise" would be a tamper-evident, serial-numbered seal that could only be re-applied by an authorized repair center. The authorized repair center would document the serial number of the seal that was on the phone and would document on paper and by video-recording all changes made to the device then re-seal it with a new seal. In most cases, a summary of the repair along with both serial numbers would be filed with the manufacturer or, for special cases where the manufacturer needed to be kept in the dark about it (think: government-owned devices where the fact that the device is even in government hands may be a state secret), with a trusted third party (perhaps a separate branch of the government, with a "digital digest/hash" published to prevent altering the records later).

Manufacturers would have to provide the information and tools necessary to make repairs to the general public at reasonable prices, as is the case under most "right to repair" proposals.

End users who do not need a "legal provenance" on their device's repairs would be free to use 3rd parties for repair. Damages unrelated to the repair done by the 3rd party would continue to be covered by the factory warranty.

Likely not insidious

[Anonymous Coward]

The real reason for this is likely not anything insidious, rather it's simple physics. Take the old Apple laptops with the removable battery vs the unibody design with the non-user replaceable battery. What Apple did was get rid of a lot of the plastic shell around the battery meaning they could use that space either to increase the capacity of the battery and/or make the laptop a little bit slimmer in profile. Same basic deal with phones. If you design it to be a single sealed unit, it allows for certain design decisions that weren't possible otherwise.

I'm sure the notion of forcing users to use Apple "authorized" repair places (read, their stores) does factor in to some degree. Any time you get someone into the store, there's an infinitely higher percentage of them buying something else compared to if they don't come into the store. However, I would be willing to bet that is closer to an afterthought. If you don't allow any random person to do repairs on your devices, you don't have people blaming you because someone you have no control over did shoddy work. It is a fact of life for any large company that you will be sued for some of the most ridiculous things, and people suing Apple because the teenage kid next door said they could do the work for half the price botched the job and destroyed the phone. The suit will get laughed out of court, but they still have to pay a lawyer to draft a response to the complaint, file a motion for summary judgment to dismiss, filing fees with the court, and likely showing up for at least one hearing in front of a judge. That will run you a couple hundred dollars, minimum.

I am in no way saying I agree with Apple's decision, as I'm all in favor of a right to repair law. Apple absolutely abuses it's "authorized repair" program and arranges it so that customers will be so frustrated by the experience anywhere other than an Apple store, customers won't go anywhere else. However, agreeing with and understanding are two different things. There are a lot of reasons why Apple might do what it does that have nothing to do with trying to force people into buying new phones.

john deere does not want to send a dear john to de

[Joe_Dragon]

john deere does not want to send a dear john to dealers that need to make bank on dealer only repairs.

Everyone's forgetting DRM

[Sloppy]

Everyone is aware of the planned obsolescence angle, but nobody seems to have noticed that particular irony of California (i.e. the state containing Hollywood) being the one asking for a right to repair. Lots of hardware makers are either in bed with content companies, or are one. As long as DRM is still legal, this results in an unavoidable conflict of interest.

DRM is always what these companies are really talking about, whenever they use the word "security." They mean they want to keep the machine's master's interests secure against the great adversary: the machine's owner.

DRM and right-to-repair are fundamentally incompatible. You can't implement DRM and also be owner-maintainable, because from an owner's point of view, DRM implementations are bugs (or malware, depending on how strict you want to be about the implementor's intent), and bugs need to be fixed.

I think California will cave in on this, and their legislators will eventually realize that it's necessary that people have adversarial relationship with their computers. The only way this can be avoided, is if DRM ceases to be a thing. And the only way that's going to happen, is if it's outlawed.

Expect this bill to die, for much more inflexible reasons than wanting to protect planned obsolescence. They simply can't allow people to be in charge of their own computers. It's not happening.

Here's my response guess

[Tablizer]

"If we control everything about the phone, the user gets coordinated synergy between parts."

Re:Here's my response guess

[Anonymous Coward]

No enough buzzwords. Throw in a few magicals, user experences and courages. Then you have a true apple bullshit PR reply.

"Authorized repair center"

[Anonymous Coward]

My old stereo had an "authorized repair center" listed...it ALSO had a full schematic included in the manual!

Having the right to repair purchased items.

[GregMmm]

I had to think about this for a while, but it all points back to Apple wanting to sell phones. After I've had my phone for say 3 years why can't I try and fix it? It's not a warranty problem, that's expired. Important point is the phone is mine, not the selling company. I throw the BS flag on the idea it's to keep the integrity of their product. I know, it would be better for me to walk around with a cracked screen on my phone, cause that's great advertisement. Buy this phone, it breaks. And lastly as a couple of people have commented, there is usually multiple detailed youtube videos available on exactly how to do it.

Personally I'm sick of people telling me what do to with my stuff. I'm curious by nature and I've fixed a lot of broken stuff. It's what drive a number of us nerd types. Can I fix this, or better yet, how can I make this better.

This just seems to be all about the money.

Re:Having the right to repair purchased items.

[sphealey]

- - - - - After I've had my phone for say 3 years why can't I try and fix it? It's not a warranty problem, that's expired. Important point is the phone is mine, not the selling company.- - - - -

What is preventing you from trying to fix your 3-year-old phone?

Re:Having the right to repair purchased items.

[evil_aaronm]

Seriously. I'm gonna have to say, "Not much." You can get most parts, tools and instructions on iFixit. I've repaired dozens of Apple Devices. Some are easier than others, but I haven't come across one that was "impossible."

iTHICC

[Joviex]

Sorry, not all of us want a thick phone.

Bullshit.

Everyone knows iTHICC is the best.

It's obvious

[Tsolias]

I'm a CIS male.

"Right to repair" is a terrible name

[Solandri]

It implies we don't have the right to do what we want with the products we own, unless the state gives us that right. Nobody that right to us - it is ours by virtue of the fact that we own the device.

What this really is is a law to prohibit companies from using manufacturing process and designs which deliberately impede the owner's ability to tinker with a product. And Apple products are not the most egregious violator. It's printers with chipped ink cartridges which refuse to operate unless you buy a new cartridge from that specific manufacturer. (Software is worse, but it gets a pass because you typically buy a software license, not the software itself.)

Re:"Right to repair" is a terrible name

[Anonymous Coward]

It implies we don't have the right to do what we want with the products we own, unless the state gives us that right. Nobody that right to us - it is ours by virtue of the fact that we own the device.

It's ours because the right to repair is protected under the 9th Amendment (rights retained by the people), and the 10th Amendment (rights reserved to the people).

Nothing in the Bill of Rights prevents application of these Amendments to commercial entities. Indeed, such application is a requirement in a land where government has money that might end up in the hands of third party contractors, or can otherwise benefit third parties (tax breaks and so forth) otherwise government could infringe any right desired through those parties. It's basically another application of the principles behind the Law of Agency.

Contract law is not superior to the Bill of Rights, and no contract can alter the right to repair. Claims to the contrary by US legal professionals represent a violation of their oaths to uphold the law, and unethical practice of law. Further, attempting to use contract law to prevent the right to repair is an infringement of fundamental rights "under the colour of law" and hence a criminal violation of federal law.

The only government action that is needed here is to require companies to stop breaking the law - start penalizing executives and lawyers who refuse to respect fundamental rights.

App store, iTunes

[HalAtWork]

They make plenty of money if they keep you as a customer. When your phone breaks you can get a new one, and it might not be an Apple branded phone.

It boils down to this

[Anonymous Coward]

You want to put in your own headphone jack? After we designed it out?

It takes courage to make that call.

Re:Apple doesn't have to do anything.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah as soon as you guys have the thousands of world class engineers, artists, and designers that apple uses to weave it's brand identity.... and arguably the best public university system in the world that it uses to harvest new talent. Oh speaking of which, you'll definitely need a positive attitude toward diversification, which Arizona definitely has. I'm sure that thousands of Indian and Asian families will be welcomed with open arms. It'll be good for your little towns to see what happens to their treasuries after the cops show some local hospitality to the new brown folks coming into town. "Tell it to the judge" will be fucking hilarious when Habib rolls into court with more legal counsel than normally exists in the whole county.

The truth is that if you guys develop a tech hub you'll hate it the way Texas can't stand Austin.

Re:Apple doesn't have to do anything.

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, don't forget to participate in Team Creimer YouTube poll about being in favor of a 2 to 3 weeks government shutdown so help desk can install patches and vote yes.
--
Team Creimer for a 3 weeks government shutdown.
$700 For A Vacuum Cleaner -- Are You #%@$ Nuts?!

I disagree

[Voyager529]

This only comes into the conversation when it's RMS levels of repair. If it were only down to the secure enclave, baseband, and other similar SoC items, this wouldn't really be a problem.

I'd wager that the top five hardware items to repair on the iPhone are as follows:

1. Cracked screen.
2. EoL battery.
3. Lightning connector.
4. Home button.
5. silent switch / volume buttons / power button.

Each of these are reasonably-modular things that a reasonably skilled individual could perform; Youtube tutorials abound for virtually all of these, and none of them interfere with the need for DRM. If these five repairs were possible to do with DIY kits or authorized repair facilities, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Re:Apple doesn't have to do anything.

[Anonymous Coward]

SAVE SLASHDOT! Mod down the Creimertards' copy-and-paste comments!

CROFLOL!

Sure, beginning by the king dumpty creimertard: creimer himself!

Here are some posts from creimer's old accounts. I'll start with his love of child brides.

If all my assets were liquidated, I would still have enough cash to buy a new car and head off to Mexico to find a chica to marry.
https://slashdot.org/comments....

You're aware that are some states in the U.S. that allow underage marriage as young as 14 years old?
https://slashdot.org/comments....
As for my comment, I've heard stories of engineers retiring at 50, moving to Mexico and marrying underage girls. Since I work with ex-military, the Philippines is a popular retirement spot for marrying underage girls as well. It's all about getting the most bang for your retirement dollars.
https://slashdot.org/comments....
That only works if you retire to Mexico, build a mansion (by local standards), marry an underage sweet thing and bequeath all your possessions to the village.
https://slashdot.org/comments....

You need to be more specific. I wrote 3,000+ comments this year.
https://slashdot.org/comments....

Nah... I just do it to piss off my trolls and make coffee money off of them.
https://slashdot.org/comments....
We have different priorities. You want to climb the corporate ladder. I want to own the corporate ladder.
https://slashdot.org/comments....

Your bitch licks your balls. Most people don't brag about practicing bestiality. Is there a reason why you married a dog and not a goat?
https://slashdot.org/comments....

My employers don't care about what my Slashdot trolls think. Now go off and lick your balls somewhere else.
https://slashdot.org/comments....
iPhone 6s and reduce my monthly bill from $80 to $50. As a phone and a video camera, the iPhone 6s isn't obsolete. As a Sprint customer for 20+ years, Sprint will always offer me a new iPhone if I decide to stop using the 6s as a phone in the next several years.
https://slashdot.org/comments....
Miracle workers are never afraid to ask for a second opinion. Supervisor gave me his opinion ? and a mess to clean up. Lesson learned from this incident: if something isn't quite broken, break it.
https://slashdot.org/comments....

So you can turn around call me a liar again? People have been playing that game with me for years.
https://slashdot.org/comments....
Based on what I've read about Uber, he need to tell the boys to clean up their locker room behavior, zip up their pants, and attend sensitivity training until everyone agrees that women are not sexual objects.
https://slashdot.org/comments....

Which doesn't violate the Slashdot TOS. If you got a problem with that, take it up with management.
https://slashdot.org/comments....
This year I've posted ~4,000 comments.

Re:Apple doesn't have to do anything.

[Anonymous Coward]

creimer confuses his Slashdot signature with an advertisement animated gif.

--
Balena!

So here's the thing

[daq man]

Let's start by getting it out in the open, I AM NOT AND APPLE FANBOY, ok, I'll take a deep breath and continue.

I have a lot of gripes against Apple and not being able to easily change the battery in my phone is one of them. On the other hand, is legislature the right way to approach this? Look what happened with the EU and cookies. I don't give a flying monkey's about cookies but now I have to look at a banner on websites that explains in "Web for Dummies" style all about cookies. We all know that most politicians do not understand technology, despite being pissed about how hard it is to fix a phone I don't want one that is thick, heavy and looks like crap. I'm willing to pay Apple's, or Samsung's or anyone else's premium for something that looks like a 21st century phone. If that means it is hard to fix then OK AS LONG AS THERE IS COMPETITION. If I don't like it I vote with my feet and go somewhere else. If there was a monopoly then it would be right to legislate, a monopoly should be forced to offer something that people can both afford and maintain.

More than 10c worth but there you go.

Re:So here's the thing

[MoarSauce123]

Cookies can be used to track what you do. I think it is quite fair to expect that this is disclosed to users. That has nothing to do with the EU. I do agree that legislation is not the best approach. Instead, companies like Apple need to wake up and change their approach. Their customers want serviceability and instead of picking up on that demand, Apple is stonewalling. It is entirely up to Apple to avoid such legislation and write the rule book themselves while following consumer demands and still making money in the process. One thing the EU got right is to mandate a minimum 2 year warranty on all products. I think that is still too low, should be 4 years. The EU also has laws that require manufacturers of consumer electronics to take back old devices at no charge and fully document proper disposal. The vendors adjusted to this new landscape rather quickly. Same with any packaging return mandates. Once those were put in place it took merely a few months until the all plastic packaging was replaced by paperboard or removed entirely. Manufacturers could have avoided all this if they acted much sooner.

Re:Apple doesn't have to do anything.

[Anonymous Coward]

SUPREME ALERT SUPREME ALERT SUPREME ALERT SUPREME ALERT SUPREME ALERT

The fat nuisance known as cdreimer has somehow clawed his way out of -1 terrible! PLEASE MOD DOWN !!!!!

There should be a law

[Anonymous Coward]

There should be a law requiring device/equipment that use battery, allow end user to replace the battery.

Simple

[Trogre]

Because, like home computers, smartphones are at the end of their adoption phase; every adult who is likely to eventually have one, now has one. And now they are also nearing the end of their feature phase - a smartphone from three years ago can do most of the useful things a 2018 smartphone can.

Companies like Apple and Samsung know this, and are scrambling to maintain their quarterly sales by cramming in useless features as selling points.

They're scared shitless that once people figure out they don't actually need 32,768 free emoji's or dodgy face recognition then they will stop upgrading. Then they'll replace their phones only when they break.

Enter planned obsolescence, and goodbye right-to-repair.

Re:Apple doesn't have to do anything.

[Anonymous Coward]

I always mod down you whiny bitches, your dribbling shit about how you dont like creimer is pure trolling crap, shitposting of the highest order, the same copy pasta bullshit every time, go get a fucking life you useless fat virgin turds.

Re:Apple doesn't have to do anything.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's funny because you could just as easily fake all the views, clicks, and subscriptions you're depending on slashdot for. It's such a small small number that youtube wouldn't ever notice. Besides your "subscriber link" trick is already dishonest enough to get you a strike if some minimum wage tubemonkey decides they need to pad their weekly numbers, people routinely get random strikes for insanely minuscule transgressions.

Like why don't you just get all the passwords for your google sockpuppet accounts and game your numbers over a proxy? Or ask your friends to give you that initial bump?
I get what you're doing, a small number of clicks and shit will ensure you're near the top of the list if you generate content on topics that aren't on the social radar yet.... but what you're doing here is building a huge embarrassing internet footprint. If you ever get any sort of popularity the trolls will come. Find what you've done here, and blog about your every tiny mistake. It'll be funny because you'll get eaten alive by other assholes trying to grift for their own clickbait pennies with articles about your child bride fixations and creepy female impersonations.

This! exactly This! One thousand times!

I am an on-line marketer myself and creimer has been burnt for a long time because of what I emphasized in your text above. The fucker is just too stupid to realize it.

You would put the fucker in an extra large boiling tank with warm water and turn on the heat and the fucker would be too dumb to get out if he could when it gets too hot.

creimer already pissed off many of us by bringing attention to friendly advertising plugs on Slashdot, especially when posted as AC and the Slashdot moderators have become intolerant to posts containing friendly links, thus hurting us all. AC posts on Slashdot used to generate more clicks before creimer decided to go crazy.

Everybody hates creimer, especially other online marketers and although I would never do anything illegal, I hear other marketers might when it comes to creimer.

Good luck dumb ass!

Re:Apple doesn't have to do anything.

[Anonymous Coward]

Then, how come the GP comment is not modded down yet Chris????

Chris lying again and again. It is so obvious! :)

CROFLOL!

Please provide the username of your new sock puppet account with modpoints if you wish to prove yourself.

Heu, you don't have any modpoints Chris???

Here, enjoy the following story since you enjoy scrolling on mobile devices so much!

Here is the story of creimy the mountain and his royalties!

This story was inspired by cdreimer, the parent poster. The story was written by a visionary on cdreimer birth date.

The story of creimy the mountain explained:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Creimy is a typical mountain who poses for postcards, living with his wife Ethel, a tree, between the cities of Rosamund and Gorman, California. The main features on his mountainous face are two large caves, resembling eyes, and a cliff for a jaw, which moves up and down when he talks, puffing up dust and boulders.
click above link to read more, he even destroyed Edwards Air Force Base just by passing by...

Listen to the audio version here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

"Creimy The Mountain"

includes quotes from Pomp and Circumstance March No. 1 in D major (Edward Elgar), Johnny's Theme (Paul Anka), Off We Go Into The Wild Blue Yonder (Crawford), O Mein Papa (Paul Burkhard), Over The Rainbow (Harburg/Arlen), Star-Spangled Banner (Smith/Key), Suite: Judy Blue Eyes (Stephen Stills)

One, two, three

CREIMY the Mountain
CREIMY the Mountain
A regular picturesque
Postcardy mountain
Residing between lovely
Rosamond and Gorman
With his stunning wife ETHELL, A tree! A tree!

CREIMY was a mountain ETHELL was a tree Growing off of his shoulder

CREIMY was a mountain
(CREIMY was a mountain!)
ETHELL was a tree Growing off of his shoulder
(ETHELL was a tree growing off of his shoulder)
(hey, hey hey!)

Creimy had two big
Caves for eyes,
With a cliff for a jaw
That would go up 'n down,
And whenever it did,
He'd puff out some dust,
And hack up a boulder (HACK!) Hack up a boulder (HACK! HACK!)
Hack up a boulder (HACK! HACK! HACK!) Up a boulder

Now, one day, now I believe it was on a Tuesday, a man in a checkered double-knit suit drove up in a large El Dorado Cadillac, leased from BOB SPREEN

("Where the freeways meet in Downey!")

And he laid a HUGE, BULGING ENVELOPE right at the corner of CREIMY THE MOUNTAIN, that was right where his 'foot' was supposed to be.

Now, CREIMY THE MOUNTAIN, he couldn't believe it! All those postcards he'd posed for, for ALL OF THOSE YEARS, and finally, now, AT LAST, his Royalties!

Royalties! Royalties Royalties! Royalty check is in, honey!

Yes, CREIMY THE MOUNTAIN was RICH! Yes, and his eyeball-caves, they widened in amazement, and his jaw (which was a cliff), well it dropped thirty feet!

A bunch of dust puffed out! Rocks and boulders hacked up, (hack! hack!) crushing 'The LINCOLN'!

I gave him the money He acted real funny He hocked up a rock and It TOTALLED my car!

Oh, do you Know any trucks Might be bound for THE VALLEY?
I don't wanna stand here All night in this bar (Dear Lord)

I don't wanna stand here All night in this bar (No shit!)

I don't wanna stand here All night in this bar!

By two o'clock, when the bars are already closed down, CREIMY had broken 'THE BIG NEWS' to ETHELL. And with dust and boulders everywhere, CREIMY, choked with excitement, announced

"ETHELL, we're going on a VACATION!"

Yes, and they WERE going on a vacation! (Oh, and ETHELL, ETHELL, ETHELL, like every little woman, she of course was very excited! She creaked a little bit, and some old birds flew off of her.) CREIMY told ETHELL they were going to Yes! They were going to NEW YORK!

"ETHELL, we're

Not just mobile devices

[Anonymous Coward]

My grandmother recently bought a Black & Decker Quickpress Iron (model F976 Type 1) from Wal-Mart for ironing material for the quilts she makes. The instruction manual says "Tamper resistant screw. Warning: This appliance is equipped with a tamper-resistant screw to prevent removal of the outer cover. To reduce the risk of fire or electric shock, do not attempt to remove the outer cover. There are no user-serviceable parts inside. Repair should be done *only* by authorized service personnel."

Even clothes irons are now coming equipped with special screws to prevent people from fixing them. FFS this is getting out of hand.

Re:Not just mobile devices

[MoarSauce123]

The bits for these screws can be bought for cheap online. They are not as tamper resistant as you might think. That said, Black & Decker is since eons of craptastic quality. I suggest your grandmother brings it back to the store and gets a better brand.

Did you even read the post you replied to?

[Brannon]

Replacing the fingerprint sensor triggered a security check that said "hey somebody is fucking with this critical piece of the authentication chain".

It turns out that a lot of people were getting their home button fixed in unauthorized repair shops and this lead to the brickage. Apple's response was to release a software path to unbrick their phone and update the OS to instead just disable the TouchID when it detected an unauthorized sensor replacement.

Re:Did you even read the post you replied to?

[gweihir]

That was Apple's response when they found they could not get away with this. I agree that on the surface, their reasons appeared good. But they were not. As soon as an attacker has access to hardware, they have generally won. Also, the home-button is not something you can secretly swap out on a user. So this security check makes no sense, except to prevent "unauthorized" repair.

Well, obviously

[autismuk]

.... Apple makes all its money selling hardware, so they don't want things repaired or upgraded, they want the sheep to buy the "new" one, which is usually pretty much the same as the old one.

why explain?

[houghi]

Thefact that they ate allowed to explain things is already bad. It should not matter. Being allowed to repair should be a given.

Devices need to be repairable

[MoarSauce123]

Most electronics are so tightly glued together that a repair is close to impossible. The right to repair is a necessity, but one that has to be followed by repairability rules. Manufacturers of consumer electronics like Apple should get in front of this debate if they want to keep control. There are plenty other offenders, like Amazon and their Kindle devices. They cannot be rooted and once Amazon decides that updates are no longer needed the devices degrade in usability rather quickly.

Apple is the minor player in this game

[Rastl]

While Apple is the big name attention getter in all this the real drivers for this are the farmers. They NEED the Right to Repair since they're locked into support contracts for their equipment. They can't replace any part without a service tech showing up and telling the thing that it's OK to keep working.

Full time farmers tend to be skilled enough to do most repairs to their own equipment and having their combine stand inactive for a day or three until the tech can/will show up is a real problem. Especially since that tech doesn't have to do anything besides that software blip.

If dragging Apple into court so they can show how little sense it makes to have vendor lockout on purchased equipment makes the law go forward I'm all for it. Heck I'm all for it because they're being jerks. But keep your eye on the ball - the farmers who actually produce something necessary to live.

Really depends who you ask doesn't it?

[Shatahn]

Apple patches slow down old phones?

Apple fans will say that this is to protect the phone and make it last longer. Android fans will say this is to prompt Apple users to buy a new Apple phone.

Apple says you can't repair your phone yourself?

Apple fans will say that this is to ensure customer safety and prevent tampering with security. Android fans will say this is to force you to give Apple a cut of the action.

Looking at Apple's cash reserves, reluctance to contribute to society by paying tax, and rather bad history with working conditions in China I'd say that Apple's track record suggests that it is not in the interests of the consumer that it wants to block this legislation.

Most people don't care

[Anonymous Coward]

Most people don't care if they can or cannot repair their own phones. They want it to work and have all the latest features, and if it breaks they'll most likely just get a new one. They're going to get a new one every year or two anyway.

If you're really worried about it, use the Apple Upgrade Program, which lets you pay for the phone over 2 years with zero interest, trade it in for a new one after a year, and comes with AppleCare to cover repairs.

i know why

[Anonymous Coward]

because they are faggots

You sound bitter sweet tits

[Anonymous Coward]

You sound bitter sweet tits!

irony

[k6mfw]

When the Big A was created in 20th century, the creators got their start by taking apart stuff and putting them back together sometimes with mods (sometimes creating smoke with results). Though company and its philosophy has changed a lot, many products are basically tinker-proof.

Where did you get that?

[Cajun Hell]

How does "right to repair" more imply giving the right than it implies protecting the right?