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Breakthrough Study Reveals How LSD Dissolves a Person's Sense of Self (newatlas.com)
New submitter future guy shares a report from New Atlas: A fascinating study led by scientists at the University of Zurich has uncovered key insights into the mechanisms behind how our brain generates our sense of self. The researchers administered lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) to several participants in order to home in on where in the brain our sense of self is activated and what happens when a powerful psychedelic drug interferes with that process. The study administered 24 subjects either LSD, LSD in combination with ketanserin, or a placebo. Ketanserin is a compound that is known to inhibit many of the effects of LSD by blocking the serotonin 2A receptor (5-HT2A receptor). Each subject lay in an MRI scanner while undergoing a series of social interaction simulations with a virtual avatar. As well as the brain imaging, the subjects' eye movements were monitored to track when they were or were not following the gaze of the virtual avatar.
The study demonstrated LSD-altered brain activity in several regions previously identified as fundamental for developing coherent self-representation during social interaction, including the posterior cingulate cortex, medial prefrontal cortex and the angular gyrus. Most importantly though was the observation that ketanserin normalized the effects of LSD to the point where the group influenced by ketanserin and LSD displayed similar results to those under the effect of the placebo. These results strongly suggest that the 5-HT2A receptor plays a fundamental role in the development of self-awareness, and differentiation between the self and others. The value of this research is two-fold. As well as simply increasing our knowledge of how the brain functions under the influence of psychedelic drugs, it is suggested that different psychiatric conditions could be treated by manipulating the 5-HT2A receptor pathways. The study has been published in the journal JNeurosci.
The study demonstrated LSD-altered brain activity in several regions previously identified as fundamental for developing coherent self-representation during social interaction, including the posterior cingulate cortex, medial prefrontal cortex and the angular gyrus. Most importantly though was the observation that ketanserin normalized the effects of LSD to the point where the group influenced by ketanserin and LSD displayed similar results to those under the effect of the placebo. These results strongly suggest that the 5-HT2A receptor plays a fundamental role in the development of self-awareness, and differentiation between the self and others. The value of this research is two-fold. As well as simply increasing our knowledge of how the brain functions under the influence of psychedelic drugs, it is suggested that different psychiatric conditions could be treated by manipulating the 5-HT2A receptor pathways. The study has been published in the journal JNeurosci.
I can't imagine dropping acid and then just lying in an MRI scanner.
LSD acts on much more than 5-HT2A. Source:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/20/LSDaffinities.GIF
Interesting research, glad its being done. I wonder why they targetted just 5-HT2A as there is much more going on. Probably because getting approval is just so dang hard. Humanity should of invested far more in the scientific controlled research of psychedelics by now.
Im glad I got to try LSD and other psychedelics a decade ago. I am fundamentally a different person from it. Its great to get to know "yourself" when your "self" does not exist anymore.
- Kaex
LSD acts on much more than 5-HT2A. Source:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/20/LSDaffinities.GIF
Interesting research, glad its being done. I wonder why they targetted just 5-HT2A as there is much more going on. Probably because getting approval is just so dang hard. Humanity should of invested far more in the scientific controlled research of psychedelics by now.
Im glad I got to try LSD and other psychedelics a decade ago. I am fundamentally a different person from it. Its great to get to know "yourself" when your "self" does not exist anymore.
- Kaex
Having been down that path, yes, I would find it really uncomfortable laying in MRI machine. Tied down maybe or an exceptionally small dose?
So is the same true for shrooms as well? Itâ(TM)s know that taking in certain mushrooms will inhibit the human ego, hence sense of self.
When the MRI machine looks like its breathing, some find it funny, others panic.
LSD Dissolves a Person's Sense of Self
Post something too clever on /. and get modded down.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
One of the remaining legacies of colonialism is the suppression of psychedelics. They were used in religious rituals for thousands of years in the Americas, and as such a sacrement, their use is in fact a constitutionally protected right.
-The art of programming is the pursuit of absolute simplicity.
Andy Warhol? Now that's up for debate.
Dosing & tied down? wow..... I think I'd rather be in an MRI machine....
They were of course focused on the non-bullshit aspect of psychedelics. The batshit crazy aspects are constitutionally protected, but worthless.
Other than the mechanism, this is pretty much old news.
Originally published in '79 by Albert Hoffman: LSD, my problem child
https://books.google.com/books...
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Well with this research there can be even stronger drugs that cause one's "self" to dissolve. Never to return.
What's better?
Lets just look at the current POTUS. Clear case of lots of Self and in a desperate need to adjust anything not agreeing with it so it agrees.
Is this a way to live? Seems a pretty busy undertaking and in a larger amount of collisions with not agreeing Selfs and that following unhappiness with inner conflict because in such a big Self, unhappiness cannot be shown or tolerated.
I'd say, lesser self is a wiser choice.
The problem is that in today's culture, it seems like 'getting wasted' is the objective of drug use. Drink some beer, take some speed and maybe some shrooms, man. Get bent.
Chemicals are a tool, to be used with care. 'Tripping' shouldn't be a 'gee, wow!' roller coaster ride.
But this amounts to preaching to the choir, I imagine, on /.
I've sometimes heard people who have used LSD claim that they became aware of how we are all connected, all part of a whole, all "one". Which seems to line up somewhat with the study saying people on LSD have a less developed sense of self-vs-other. Maybe LSD isn't opening people's eyes to a universal wholeness so much as fading their concenpt of a separate self?
it's just politics & racism. It started in the 30s when the guy that ran prohibition enforcement didn't want to lose his position when 18th amendment got repealed. He used racism to get folks behind the idea. Then Nixon expanded it so he could crack down on his political enemies.
What's scary is that even with all this history known and available we still can't get drugs legalized. That's not just because of corruption. At best only 65% support legalizing weed (and you can forget about legalizing the hard stuff and treating it as a medical condition).
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
"Melts in the Mind, NOT The Mouth!"
Anecdotally, at least, LSD helped me - as a socially-inept, outsider-type nerd - to develop an awareness of myself and my connectedness to the universe beyond the immediate world of ass-hole family and community mores. Further, actually finding an acid dealer exposed me to a bigger world than my background would otherwise provide. All-in-all a worthy experience for me.
$.02
A study done by a universal consciousness that looks at itself though the eyes of every being in the universe conducted a study on itself and found that LSD removes all sense of self and other. This study was peer reviewed by a universal consciousness that looks at itself though the eyes of every being in the universe....
I know a guy that seems to have no 5-HT2A receptors.
So you would still allow them human sacrifice ? No ? Then at some point you decide that religious activity may be unlawful enough to be suppressed. It turns out pumping yourself with halluninogenic has not been recognized as a protected right , a religious right, or any right whatsoever, and is considered unlawful. Nothing to do with colonialism, just plain "respect the law".
I've found the gee wow rollercoaster of some substances helpful for self reflection and growth.
Maybe gee whoah is more accurate, but some substances cram self knowledge at a place that's barely comprehensible and could definitely be called a roller coaster, then trigger the profound part of the brain hard (DMT, I'm looking at you).
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
What should it be used for? Do you know more about some greate plan for the universe than others?
Since there's no evidence that these drugs were given to us or evolved for us according to the wishes of some higher power. How do you think humans discovered those substances? Probably like most discoveries they ate the plants and fungi containing the substances by accident, maybe out of desperation because they were really starved, or saw an animal get wasted and then thought to try it themselves. After that experience they probably looked for some explanation and one moron came up with the idea that the gods or something equivalent spoke to them. Other morons believed that and suddenly it became something sacramental.
To me it seems like getting wasted is just as valid as having some religious experience.
hard to have self when you are at one with the universe
not that I ever took drugs,
ok,
but I never inhaled
Go well
Damn man, an LSD study in Zurich ... I missed out on some free acid
One gets claustrophobic in there.Maybe the noise augments it but it's mainly the 'stuck in a tunnel' feeling.
Having personal experience with a few "brands", I can say that not once did I experience a dissolving of self. Like most "social experiments", the numbers are too small to extrapolate great insights from. I don't typically follow someone else's gaze unless there's a definite reason for me to, so I don't see any relevance to that.
Last point, spacing out != dissolving of self.
It's deeply suspicious that they are reliably exactly as illegal as all the substances that are addictive and/or actually destroy the body. It's like they are somehow thrown in with them for literally no rational reason.
The problem is that in today's culture, it seems like 'getting wasted' is the objective of drug use. Drink some beer, take some speed and maybe some shrooms, man. Get bent. Chemicals are a tool, to be used with care. 'Tripping' shouldn't be a 'gee, wow!' roller coaster ride. But this amounts to preaching to the choir, I imagine, on /.
I don't think you understand the expression "preaching for the choir". Since the church choir is mostly devout believers, it means the priest is talking to the people who already agree with him. The implication is that the priest is wasting his time instead of trying to convert non-believers. So unless you think /. so overwhelmingly agrees with you it's kinda redundant to say it you're not "preaching for the choir". Perhaps you meant to say "preaching for deaf ears"? That means a wasted effort because people's opinion isn't going to change anyway. I'll continue my light recreational beer drinking, thank you.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
It's hone in
Laying eggs in an MRI would be uncomfortable on top of the claustrophobic feeling of lying in an enclosed space.
Sometimes a study pops out of the mass of studies as particularly important and to the point. This is one such study. Also, there is no such thing as a "virtual avatar." It is redundant.
E Proelio Veritas.
You sound as bad as the prohibitionists. What's wrong with pleasure? Why does everything have to be used for serious purposes?
Medical research is building a good body of evidence for therapeutic
LSD in conditions such as PTSD and intractable depression.
https://www.newscientist.com/a...
http://psychedelicscience.org....
Yea, I personally would lose my shit if they had me strapped down inside of it. But if i was free to move, I would be able to overcome it, but thats even sober. when you do acid or mushrooms or really anything you may see shit on, you have to mentally prepare yourself ahead of time that, "Hey you might see some fucked up shit, its probably not real" and it helps keep your mind at ease. Ive done a ton of drugs in my life and any time i did psychedelics thats the mindset i went in with.. Never had a trip that was less than fantastic! But it sounds like they have found a drug that will help the weak minded people not kill their self on a bad trip. I wonder what it does to help the people that are permafried.
These things have become so ingrained in the moral consciousness of many cultures that they are rarely questioned any more. It's a feature of many religions that direct pleasure is a vice while suffering is a virtue. So when you're exhausted and harm yourself the endorphins your body releases on its own are good, they please God - you a bit closer to heaven. But when you take drugs that interact with the same receptors in your brain it's sin and saddens or angers God - you get a bit closer to hell. But it's not just Christianity as most religions condemn drugs use except when it's something cultural. For example while Islam doesn't look favourably at alcohol consumption or narcotics in general, kath usage in certain parts of the Arabic world is socially accepted and very common. But back to Christianity again, the Church also has several problems with pleasure from sexual intercourse and masturbation, something that is pretty natural from what we know about animals. And in that case they argue that we must resist these natural things and distract ourselves by doing other things.
I think historically the most likely problem with 'easy pleasure' is that those people are usually not productive workers for their community and or rulers, because it's been certainly more accepted throughout history for the rich and powerful to indulge in their expensive vices.
Seems to me you are only able to think what others have told you. From the comments I've read, it seems as if all of us that HAVE taken these types of drugs have a more open mind than you. And apparently it helped us think for ourselfs.
"I wonder why they targetted just 5-HT2A as there is much more going on."
I'm guessing this kind of hyperbole plays a part :
"These results strongly suggest that the 5-HT2A receptor plays a fundamental role in the development of self-awareness"
"The current results demonstrate that activity in areas of the ‘social brain' can be modulated via the 5-HT2AR thereby pointing towards this system as a potential target for the treatment of social impairments associated with psychiatric disorders."
Pleasure is the devil's work. The lot of man is to suffer and grin and bear it.
If you are having fun, your life is worthless, because fun has no value.
Signed
Zombie-in-chief
The problem is that in today's culture, it seems like 'getting wasted' is the objective of drug use. Drink some beer, take some speed and maybe some shrooms, man. Get bent.
Chemicals are a tool, to be used with care. 'Tripping' shouldn't be a 'gee, wow!' roller coaster ride.
Why? Who are you to determine the 'correct' use? This is no different to prohibition really, you have decided on your moral stance and want to impose it on others.
Open mind for what? For ideas that today's society is rotten and just does things for the kicks? That's what the opinion of the person I quoted appears to be.
My point is that doing drugs for fun is morally not much different that doing drugs for religious purposes. Of course that doesn't mean that drugs are all fun and harmless. But when we argue that drugs are tools, then don't give me that moralizing lecture that only uses approved by you are ok.
Furthermore, my point is that it's also not only today's society as we can see the use of various depressant, stimulants and psychedelics throughout human history. When we think of alcohol throughout the world, nicotine and peyote in the Americas as well as cocaine (leaves), psilocybin mushrooms in Africa as well as amphetamines like from kath (leaves) in the Arabic world, cannabis and opiates from the central Asian world. Then there's speculation about ancient Greece where some cults had their special brew derived from ergot fungi (similar in effect to LSD or shrooms) Drugs come from all over the globe. And of course they find some ceremonial use for various religions, but recreational use is also not that uncommon. At least as far as chewing coca or kath leaves go they're culturally accepted in those regions.
Username checks out...
Enigma
The problem is that in today's culture, it seems like 'getting wasted' is the objective of drug use. Drink some beer, take some speed and maybe some shrooms, man. Get bent.
I'm not a druggie, but I don't see why "getting wasted" is necessarily a problem. If they're not driving, not hurting anyone else, and not taking something addictive, so not likely to turn to crime to fund an addiction (such as the shrooms you mentioned above- which are non-addictive), why is that a problem?
If someone wants to take shrooms to hallucinate or "get wasted" why is that a problem for you? From what I understand, no one has ever had a medical emergency due to taking them, and you can't get addicted to them because each subsequent dose you become more immune to. Why do you care if they take that particular drug?
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
blaming colonialism is like saying vaccines cause autism, fyi.
I heard about this drug after watching Pirates of Silicon Valley where Steve Jobs gets high after swallowing some tablets of LSD. That was before he made Lisa and Macs.
Maybe this is the genius drug, but was broadcasted in news just a week ago, a teenager died after jumping from a high rise building. He tested positive with LSD.
I have exactly one cohort report on the daily micro dose LSD in the workplace.
Any other reports to efficacy, anxiety, abstraction, control or other affects including medical implications?
Thanks
We can use this research to improve our chemtrail program. We need a way to ensure docility and compliance with The Party's rule in the general population. Less self interest and more emphasis on the needs of the masses. As defined by The Party, of course.
Have gnu, will travel.
From the article:
"LSD blurs the boundaries between one's own self and others during social interactions," explains Katrin Preller, lead on the research.
Says who? I didn't have that experience. LSD certainly altered my perceptions, but I never felt that I was (for example) merging with others during social interactions. Everyone else remained quite separate and distinct.
I have never heard a story from someone about an LSD trip where they described any experience that included any out of body sensation.
LSD trips I believe last for a few hours.
DMT is another story. The trip only lasts for 5 minutes, but people coming out of it often think they were in an altered state for hours. Not everybody who tries DMT is able to blast off into that altered state, but those that do completely feel like they are in a completely different space and reality. I know someone who was screaming her head off while on DMT but afterwards had no recollection of screaming in her dream state, although she did remember voices of people trying to calm her down (she described doing backwards summersaults through a completely altered and foreign reality. People also commonly describe communicating with an alternative all knowing being).
Neural basis of self
This is one of those Wikipedia articles which colour between the lines, yet miss the target entirely. Not a lick of biochemistry in the entire treatment.
As an alien, you wouldn't even begin to suspect that body image or eating disorders was a human thing. The funny thing is, we only ever warn our children about the Wikipedia articles that hit the topic dead square, without colouring between the lines whatsoever.
Of course, by the bitter-endive corollary of Godwin's law, no good deed sufficiently bitched about escapes descent into a myopic compliance culture.
If someone wants to take shrooms to hallucinate or "get wasted" why is that a problem for you? From what I understand, no one has ever had a medical emergency due to taking them,
That's because, just like with marijuana, there are no effects to taking shrooms. Nonewhatsoever. No one has ever had an adverse medical reaction to something so natural.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
I think the ingredients for Ayahuasca can be possessed and used legally for religious ceremonies in the US, but I generally hear about people going to South America for that experience. VOX had an article about it a few weeks ago.
There are also some new compounds available that are hypothesized to metabolize into LSD inside the body.
Rich Haridy - Psychedelics On Film: An Illustrated Journey — 9 March 2016
I'm guessing this is the same Haridy.
Who wouldn't want to know about The Tingler with Vincent Price? (3m15) or The Love Statue (5m20).
Then he gets in the first serious contender, Chappaqua.
But no legitimate critic will touch it. The Tomatometer is mute with indifference.
While there are no known physical dependencies like from opiates, amphetamines, alcohol or nicotine, there's of course the chance of developing a psychological dependency. But that can happen with many things like sex, eating and drinking sugary stuff, playing video games, arguing about stupid shit on the internet...
Long term abuse of the psychedelics in question is a catalyst for developing a psychosis, which is well documented. But besides that the stated effects for 'shrooms' are pretty harmless considering what legal stuff people gets into an ER. For example when someone gets into an ER with acute alcohol intoxication it can be a lot worse than "fear, agitation, confusion, delirium, psychosis, and schizophrenia-like syndromes". And still, why would that be a problem for you? If you don't like to take those risk is there someone who's forcing you? Are we arguing that hallucinating people should be allowed to operate heavy machinery? Practice medicine? Handle guns and or other objects that may be dangerous?
Naturalism and experts who think they can learn everything by judging by appearances dissolves one's sense of self.
Agency is when you start taking command of your brain. Agency is not something your brain cooks up.
The three drugs that we see in the ER that are of real concern are:
1) Alcohol 2) Alcohol and 3) Alcohol.
THEN comes meth (tweakers are so much fun) and then heroin, or more accurately, fentanyl and carfentanyl, overdoses.
Until we actually deal with the 10% of the population that meets criteria for alcohol addiction, we really aren't moving the needle. Everything else is a rounding error.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Alcohol is a huge killer; no denying that. However, there is a LOT of meth, fentanyl, coke, and just plain old heroin killing people here in Northeast Ohio (Cleveland and Akron areas). I'm a libertarian, so I recognize that the "illegal" status of many of these drugs is the impetus for their being concentrated into extremely potent and deadly forms in which they are not found in nature. But I'm also a human being who has lost multiple friends to these things (mostly heroin, but also drunk drivers, etc.; YMMV). I would like to see relatively safer drugs such as weed - and mind you I'm saying relatively safer, not absolutely safe - more easily available, so that those seeking escape, relief from pain, etc. would be less tempted to try the more dangerous kinds, including but not limited to alcohol. Maybe LSD also. I use a lot of alcohol to ease pain from conditions that weed and/or LSD show some potential to cure, and may well die from liver failure as a result. That might happen in a free society too, but the point is I'll never know, and neither will millions of other folks who suffer from similar conditions.
Nonaggression works!
I've never been in an MRI machine, but somewhere online (maybe Slashdot?) I read someone describe the experience as like being stuffed into a 55 gallon oil drum while all the flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz pound on the drum with ball-peen hammers. People I've talked to who have had the experience have nodded in agreement when I told them that description.
Which sounds kind of trippy to begin with, and not in a good way.
I suspect that actual tripping would not enhance the experience in a positive direction.
The first time I was in a closed MRI all I could think about was how a toggle bolt works.
Lol didn't expect to see that here. Well played my imgur friend.
I was annoyed that nobody would explain all the different rhythms of the machine.
There are a lot of psychedelics with LSD-like effects. And they are all 5-HT2A agonists. Also, most effects disappear when an antagonist like ketanserin is given, as mentioned in the study.
Therefore, it can be deduced that 5-HT2A is where the magic lies. Of course, it can be helped by the other affinities, but it is much less clear than with the 5-HT. A rigorous study needs to eliminate external factors, and as you probably know since you tried LSD, psychedelic experiences are highly dependent on "set and setting", perhaps even more so than the actual substance used.
The fact that a simple 5-HT2A agonist produces life-changing experiences is not incompatible. The drug is just a trigger, the brain creates the experience.
As for research, LSD has been researched, a lot, and not much came out of it unfortunately. The issue with LSD is that in order for it to be used as a treatment, we need reproducible results, risk/benefits assessment, all that stuff. And LSD had none of these, too unpredictable. As a result, and because of its recreative use, they scheduled it as an illegal drug with no medical use. Maybe modern science can give psychedelics a second chance, but that's an uphill battle.
I wonder if any of the participants could see the magnetic resonance.
No, I meant 'preaching to the choir' but it was foolish and optimistic of me. There is always somebody on slashdot who, while the choir is singing, will bellow out off key.
I was expecting comedy gold in the comments. Sigh.
You left out the measures taken to keep you from moving. If stuffed into an oil drum, I could escape. People generally can't get out of an MRI machine by themselves, and there are reports of patients being left in them during a fire alarm or overnight. Other than that, you've pretty well got it right.
It's really fortunate that I was into relaxation exercises before I went in for the first one. I tend to be claustrophobic.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
I underwent an MRI scan once, and mainly regret not being able to record the sound - it had a nice beat, though I wouldn't want to dance to it.