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Breakthrough Study Reveals How LSD Dissolves a Person's Sense of Self (newatlas.com)
New submitter future guy shares a report from New Atlas: A fascinating study led by scientists at the University of Zurich has uncovered key insights into the mechanisms behind how our brain generates our sense of self. The researchers administered lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) to several participants in order to home in on where in the brain our sense of self is activated and what happens when a powerful psychedelic drug interferes with that process. The study administered 24 subjects either LSD, LSD in combination with ketanserin, or a placebo. Ketanserin is a compound that is known to inhibit many of the effects of LSD by blocking the serotonin 2A receptor (5-HT2A receptor). Each subject lay in an MRI scanner while undergoing a series of social interaction simulations with a virtual avatar. As well as the brain imaging, the subjects' eye movements were monitored to track when they were or were not following the gaze of the virtual avatar.
The study demonstrated LSD-altered brain activity in several regions previously identified as fundamental for developing coherent self-representation during social interaction, including the posterior cingulate cortex, medial prefrontal cortex and the angular gyrus. Most importantly though was the observation that ketanserin normalized the effects of LSD to the point where the group influenced by ketanserin and LSD displayed similar results to those under the effect of the placebo. These results strongly suggest that the 5-HT2A receptor plays a fundamental role in the development of self-awareness, and differentiation between the self and others. The value of this research is two-fold. As well as simply increasing our knowledge of how the brain functions under the influence of psychedelic drugs, it is suggested that different psychiatric conditions could be treated by manipulating the 5-HT2A receptor pathways. The study has been published in the journal JNeurosci.
The study demonstrated LSD-altered brain activity in several regions previously identified as fundamental for developing coherent self-representation during social interaction, including the posterior cingulate cortex, medial prefrontal cortex and the angular gyrus. Most importantly though was the observation that ketanserin normalized the effects of LSD to the point where the group influenced by ketanserin and LSD displayed similar results to those under the effect of the placebo. These results strongly suggest that the 5-HT2A receptor plays a fundamental role in the development of self-awareness, and differentiation between the self and others. The value of this research is two-fold. As well as simply increasing our knowledge of how the brain functions under the influence of psychedelic drugs, it is suggested that different psychiatric conditions could be treated by manipulating the 5-HT2A receptor pathways. The study has been published in the journal JNeurosci.
I can't imagine dropping acid and then just lying in an MRI scanner.
LSD acts on much more than 5-HT2A. Source:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/20/LSDaffinities.GIF
Interesting research, glad its being done. I wonder why they targetted just 5-HT2A as there is much more going on. Probably because getting approval is just so dang hard. Humanity should of invested far more in the scientific controlled research of psychedelics by now.
Im glad I got to try LSD and other psychedelics a decade ago. I am fundamentally a different person from it. Its great to get to know "yourself" when your "self" does not exist anymore.
- Kaex
Having been down that path, yes, I would find it really uncomfortable laying in MRI machine. Tied down maybe or an exceptionally small dose?
When the MRI machine looks like its breathing, some find it funny, others panic.
LSD Dissolves a Person's Sense of Self
Post something too clever on /. and get modded down.
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
One of the remaining legacies of colonialism is the suppression of psychedelics. They were used in religious rituals for thousands of years in the Americas, and as such a sacrement, their use is in fact a constitutionally protected right.
-The art of programming is the pursuit of absolute simplicity.
Anecdotally, I'd say yes. A friend of mine from youth completely lost himself on shrooms, didn't know who he was.
-The art of programming is the pursuit of absolute simplicity.
Andy Warhol?
I thought he changed his name and is now the mayor of Chicago.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
Other than the mechanism, this is pretty much old news.
Originally published in '79 by Albert Hoffman: LSD, my problem child
https://books.google.com/books...
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
Mushrooms contain Psilocybin a very different compound and it's effects are different and may have therapeutic uses.
The problem is that in today's culture, it seems like 'getting wasted' is the objective of drug use. Drink some beer, take some speed and maybe some shrooms, man. Get bent.
Chemicals are a tool, to be used with care. 'Tripping' shouldn't be a 'gee, wow!' roller coaster ride.
But this amounts to preaching to the choir, I imagine, on /.
it's just politics & racism. It started in the 30s when the guy that ran prohibition enforcement didn't want to lose his position when 18th amendment got repealed. He used racism to get folks behind the idea. Then Nixon expanded it so he could crack down on his political enemies.
What's scary is that even with all this history known and available we still can't get drugs legalized. That's not just because of corruption. At best only 65% support legalizing weed (and you can forget about legalizing the hard stuff and treating it as a medical condition).
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
It is sometimes said that "shrooms are analog, acid is digital", but they do take you in the same general direction. So does alpha-methyl tryptamine. I haven't been lucky enough to get DMT. Phenethylamines have a considerably different feel than tryptamines, but they're not a completely different thing. There's less ego loss on psychedelic phenethylamines, as far as I can determine, but I can't possibly control for all variables and I've heard peyote will break a person down pretty much the same way as LSD does.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
"Melts in the Mind, NOT The Mouth!"
Anecdotally, at least, LSD helped me - as a socially-inept, outsider-type nerd - to develop an awareness of myself and my connectedness to the universe beyond the immediate world of ass-hole family and community mores. Further, actually finding an acid dealer exposed me to a bigger world than my background would otherwise provide. All-in-all a worthy experience for me.
$.02
A study done by a universal consciousness that looks at itself though the eyes of every being in the universe conducted a study on itself and found that LSD removes all sense of self and other. This study was peer reviewed by a universal consciousness that looks at itself though the eyes of every being in the universe....
I've found the gee wow rollercoaster of some substances helpful for self reflection and growth.
Maybe gee whoah is more accurate, but some substances cram self knowledge at a place that's barely comprehensible and could definitely be called a roller coaster, then trigger the profound part of the brain hard (DMT, I'm looking at you).
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
hard to have self when you are at one with the universe
not that I ever took drugs,
ok,
but I never inhaled
Go well
A billionaire who nails lots of hot chicks. Yeah, it must be so awful for him...
One gets claustrophobic in there.Maybe the noise augments it but it's mainly the 'stuck in a tunnel' feeling.
Having personal experience with a few "brands", I can say that not once did I experience a dissolving of self. Like most "social experiments", the numbers are too small to extrapolate great insights from. I don't typically follow someone else's gaze unless there's a definite reason for me to, so I don't see any relevance to that.
Last point, spacing out != dissolving of self.
The problem is that in today's culture, it seems like 'getting wasted' is the objective of drug use. Drink some beer, take some speed and maybe some shrooms, man. Get bent. Chemicals are a tool, to be used with care. 'Tripping' shouldn't be a 'gee, wow!' roller coaster ride. But this amounts to preaching to the choir, I imagine, on /.
I don't think you understand the expression "preaching for the choir". Since the church choir is mostly devout believers, it means the priest is talking to the people who already agree with him. The implication is that the priest is wasting his time instead of trying to convert non-believers. So unless you think /. so overwhelmingly agrees with you it's kinda redundant to say it you're not "preaching for the choir". Perhaps you meant to say "preaching for deaf ears"? That means a wasted effort because people's opinion isn't going to change anyway. I'll continue my light recreational beer drinking, thank you.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Sometimes a study pops out of the mass of studies as particularly important and to the point. This is one such study. Also, there is no such thing as a "virtual avatar." It is redundant.
E Proelio Veritas.
You sound as bad as the prohibitionists. What's wrong with pleasure? Why does everything have to be used for serious purposes?
unlawful enough to be suppressed
implies that there is a law that prohibits the act. That also implies that the law was made at some point in history under certain circumstances and for certain reasons. The majority of laws are not made based on scientific evidence but on the gut feeling and idealistic values of the people in power. If they would be based on science you would have to illegalize alcohol and tobacco. For human sacrifice you have to decide who is to be sacrificed and kill that person. That is not the case for drug consumptin. Hence, the consumtion of drugs only 'harms' the consumer, not other people. One could argue about the adverse health effects and the costs for society but then again alcohol and tobacco should be on the ban list too. And that leads to the aspect of colonializm. In the Americas the prohibition of hallicinogens was introduced by white colonizers, who at the same time introduced alcohol to Native Americans. Alcohol was a part of European culture for centuries so was the consumption of hallucinogenes in the Americas but somehow white people thought only their tradition matters. Just becaus something is the law doesn't mean it is right or should never be changed.
just plain "respect the law"
The Germans who participated in the Holocaust were acting according to their laws too.
sudo rm -r -f --no-preserve-root /
What's better? Lets just look at the current POTUS. Clear case of lots of Self and in a desperate need to adjust anything not agreeing with it so it agrees. Is this a way to live? Seems a pretty busy undertaking and in a larger amount of collisions with not agreeing Selfs and that following unhappiness with inner conflict because in such a big Self, unhappiness cannot be shown or tolerated. I'd say, lesser self is a wiser choice.
Some med to dissolve your obsession with Trump would be nice, lol
Medical research is building a good body of evidence for therapeutic
LSD in conditions such as PTSD and intractable depression.
https://www.newscientist.com/a...
http://psychedelicscience.org....
Yea, I personally would lose my shit if they had me strapped down inside of it. But if i was free to move, I would be able to overcome it, but thats even sober. when you do acid or mushrooms or really anything you may see shit on, you have to mentally prepare yourself ahead of time that, "Hey you might see some fucked up shit, its probably not real" and it helps keep your mind at ease. Ive done a ton of drugs in my life and any time i did psychedelics thats the mindset i went in with.. Never had a trip that was less than fantastic! But it sounds like they have found a drug that will help the weak minded people not kill their self on a bad trip. I wonder what it does to help the people that are permafried.
They (psychedelics) were made illegal when?
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Seems to me you are only able to think what others have told you. From the comments I've read, it seems as if all of us that HAVE taken these types of drugs have a more open mind than you. And apparently it helped us think for ourselfs.
A billionaire who nails lots of hot chicks. Yeah, it must be so awful for him...
Based on his wife's behavior in public, and the multitudes of other women who seem to be involved, I would posit that the number of encounters with each woman approaches 1. That doesn't sound appealing to me, but maybe some people enjoy it.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
"I wonder why they targetted just 5-HT2A as there is much more going on."
I'm guessing this kind of hyperbole plays a part :
"These results strongly suggest that the 5-HT2A receptor plays a fundamental role in the development of self-awareness"
"The current results demonstrate that activity in areas of the ‘social brain' can be modulated via the 5-HT2AR thereby pointing towards this system as a potential target for the treatment of social impairments associated with psychiatric disorders."
The problem is that in today's culture, it seems like 'getting wasted' is the objective of drug use. Drink some beer, take some speed and maybe some shrooms, man. Get bent.
Chemicals are a tool, to be used with care. 'Tripping' shouldn't be a 'gee, wow!' roller coaster ride.
Why? Who are you to determine the 'correct' use? This is no different to prohibition really, you have decided on your moral stance and want to impose it on others.
Username checks out...
Enigma
The problem is that in today's culture, it seems like 'getting wasted' is the objective of drug use. Drink some beer, take some speed and maybe some shrooms, man. Get bent.
I'm not a druggie, but I don't see why "getting wasted" is necessarily a problem. If they're not driving, not hurting anyone else, and not taking something addictive, so not likely to turn to crime to fund an addiction (such as the shrooms you mentioned above- which are non-addictive), why is that a problem?
If someone wants to take shrooms to hallucinate or "get wasted" why is that a problem for you? From what I understand, no one has ever had a medical emergency due to taking them, and you can't get addicted to them because each subsequent dose you become more immune to. Why do you care if they take that particular drug?
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
A billionaire who nails lots of hot chicks. Yeah, it must be so awful for him...
On the surface that sounds great- but never getting a genuine emotional connection from a woman, or repeat encounters doesn't sound great. Love making gets much better the more you get to know someone and you each learn to please the other better.
A bunch of one time encounters with skanky adult film stars doesn't measure up and is like a lot of other things about his life- going for the shine and not the real substance.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Neural basis of self
This is one of those Wikipedia articles which colour between the lines, yet miss the target entirely. Not a lick of biochemistry in the entire treatment.
As an alien, you wouldn't even begin to suspect that body image or eating disorders was a human thing. The funny thing is, we only ever warn our children about the Wikipedia articles that hit the topic dead square, without colouring between the lines whatsoever.
Of course, by the bitter-endive corollary of Godwin's law, no good deed sufficiently bitched about escapes descent into a myopic compliance culture.
If someone wants to take shrooms to hallucinate or "get wasted" why is that a problem for you? From what I understand, no one has ever had a medical emergency due to taking them,
That's because, just like with marijuana, there are no effects to taking shrooms. Nonewhatsoever. No one has ever had an adverse medical reaction to something so natural.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
I think the ingredients for Ayahuasca can be possessed and used legally for religious ceremonies in the US, but I generally hear about people going to South America for that experience. VOX had an article about it a few weeks ago.
There are also some new compounds available that are hypothesized to metabolize into LSD inside the body.
Rich Haridy - Psychedelics On Film: An Illustrated Journey — 9 March 2016
I'm guessing this is the same Haridy.
Who wouldn't want to know about The Tingler with Vincent Price? (3m15) or The Love Statue (5m20).
Then he gets in the first serious contender, Chappaqua.
But no legitimate critic will touch it. The Tomatometer is mute with indifference.
Naturalism and experts who think they can learn everything by judging by appearances dissolves one's sense of self.
Agency is when you start taking command of your brain. Agency is not something your brain cooks up.
The three drugs that we see in the ER that are of real concern are:
1) Alcohol 2) Alcohol and 3) Alcohol.
THEN comes meth (tweakers are so much fun) and then heroin, or more accurately, fentanyl and carfentanyl, overdoses.
Until we actually deal with the 10% of the population that meets criteria for alcohol addiction, we really aren't moving the needle. Everything else is a rounding error.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Alcohol is a huge killer; no denying that. However, there is a LOT of meth, fentanyl, coke, and just plain old heroin killing people here in Northeast Ohio (Cleveland and Akron areas). I'm a libertarian, so I recognize that the "illegal" status of many of these drugs is the impetus for their being concentrated into extremely potent and deadly forms in which they are not found in nature. But I'm also a human being who has lost multiple friends to these things (mostly heroin, but also drunk drivers, etc.; YMMV). I would like to see relatively safer drugs such as weed - and mind you I'm saying relatively safer, not absolutely safe - more easily available, so that those seeking escape, relief from pain, etc. would be less tempted to try the more dangerous kinds, including but not limited to alcohol. Maybe LSD also. I use a lot of alcohol to ease pain from conditions that weed and/or LSD show some potential to cure, and may well die from liver failure as a result. That might happen in a free society too, but the point is I'll never know, and neither will millions of other folks who suffer from similar conditions.
Nonaggression works!
I've never been in an MRI machine, but somewhere online (maybe Slashdot?) I read someone describe the experience as like being stuffed into a 55 gallon oil drum while all the flying monkeys from the Wizard of Oz pound on the drum with ball-peen hammers. People I've talked to who have had the experience have nodded in agreement when I told them that description.
Which sounds kind of trippy to begin with, and not in a good way.
I suspect that actual tripping would not enhance the experience in a positive direction.
The first time I was in a closed MRI all I could think about was how a toggle bolt works.
Lol didn't expect to see that here. Well played my imgur friend.
I was annoyed that nobody would explain all the different rhythms of the machine.
A billionaire who nails lots of hot chicks. Yeah, it must be so awful for him...
Wow, absolutely respectful towards the other sex, seems something has not yet penetrated to here...
There are a lot of psychedelics with LSD-like effects. And they are all 5-HT2A agonists. Also, most effects disappear when an antagonist like ketanserin is given, as mentioned in the study.
Therefore, it can be deduced that 5-HT2A is where the magic lies. Of course, it can be helped by the other affinities, but it is much less clear than with the 5-HT. A rigorous study needs to eliminate external factors, and as you probably know since you tried LSD, psychedelic experiences are highly dependent on "set and setting", perhaps even more so than the actual substance used.
The fact that a simple 5-HT2A agonist produces life-changing experiences is not incompatible. The drug is just a trigger, the brain creates the experience.
As for research, LSD has been researched, a lot, and not much came out of it unfortunately. The issue with LSD is that in order for it to be used as a treatment, we need reproducible results, risk/benefits assessment, all that stuff. And LSD had none of these, too unpredictable. As a result, and because of its recreative use, they scheduled it as an illegal drug with no medical use. Maybe modern science can give psychedelics a second chance, but that's an uphill battle.
You left out the measures taken to keep you from moving. If stuffed into an oil drum, I could escape. People generally can't get out of an MRI machine by themselves, and there are reports of patients being left in them during a fire alarm or overnight. Other than that, you've pretty well got it right.
It's really fortunate that I was into relaxation exercises before I went in for the first one. I tend to be claustrophobic.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Trump looks like a good example to illustrate what GP wanted to say, and he's well known. Why not use him as an example? If I wanted to talk about certain brain problems in a person in a position of authority, I'd probably mention Woodrow Wilson.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes