End of the Landline: BT Aims To Move All UK Customers To VoIP by 2025 (siliconrepublic.com)

BT aims to move its UK customers to IP telephony by 2025. From a report: BT is shutting its traditional telephone network in the UK, according to an email seen by The Register. The public switched telephone network (PSTN) closure is part of the company's plans to move in a fibre network direction in terms of its infrastructure. All phone calls will eventually be made over broadband using VoIP systems, which means the company's existing wholesale line rental products, which are reliant on the PSTN, will need to be removed. BT Openreach runs the network used by all but one of the telecoms providers in the UK.

Comments

Sucks if you have no power

[rsilvergun]

Landlines work in a lot of cases where the power's down, at least in the States. Not sure about UK.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[bobstreo]

Landlines work in a lot of cases where the power's down, at least in the States. Not sure about UK.

And the voltage on a land line can be useful for recharging USB devices in no power situations....

http://www.instructables.com/i...

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[MightyYar]

In our case, we opted to have fiber rather than a copper landline (Verizon Fios) - so aside from a small backup battery there is no phone service during a power outage. Over the last 10 years, I've found our cell phone service to be 100% reliable during power outages - including extended outages due to disasters like Sandy and Irene. Cell phones are easy to charge via power packs, generators, or car chargers. Our alarm system uses a cell phone backup, and it has worked in every power outage (I know because my alarm company calls when the power goes out).

So I think this particular advantage is overblown.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[TechyImmigrant]

Landlines work in a lot of cases where the power's down, at least in the States. Not sure about UK.

That's why VOIP and Radio Local Loop hardware for standard telephone service in the UK includes a battery.

Re: Sucks if you have no power

[houghi]

If your power goes down that often that this becomes an issue, perhaps the powerdown is the issue, not the move to VoiP.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[wonkey_monkey]

"Old" landlines do work when the power's out.

My neighbour with respiratory problems and daily care visits got a battery backup installed along with the other box when they switched him to fibre. I didn't, but I think it's an optional extra for anyone who wants one.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[PPH]

The Verizon provided FiOS battery backup only supports the phone function. They drop broadband (and TV?) when the power goes out at your home interface. So I ended up plugging the FiOS interface into my router/PC UPS anyway.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[jellomizer]

That is assuming you still have a direct wired phone.
Most people who still have a LAN Line, often will just have a cordless phone. Which doesn't work with the power out anyways.

I remember watching a friends child play with Doll house parts. There was a toy telephone (from the 1990's) her parents coudln't convince her that it was actually a telephone and not an iron.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[AmiMoJo]

Thing is, a lot of people don't even want a landline any more. I don't, I just want broadband and mobile.

How about instead of mucking about with VOIP on landlines, BT offer gigabit fibre to everyone and stop making me pay for a phone service I don't want?

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[bobbied]

Landlines work in a lot of cases where the power's down, at least in the States. Not sure about UK.

My VOIP setup works w/o power just fine. Of course I have a couple of UPS's that keep the network equipment running to make this happen. The wireless phone system won't work though so I keep a wired handset plugged in just in case.

Land Lines work just the same in the UK as in the US and won't depend on the power being on in your house to work. The power to run the phone comes from the central office, assuming you have a wired handset...

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[Megane]

Back in 2001 or so, the copper in the alley behind my house went to crap. I actually lost analog phone before the DSL gave up, though I learned then and since that TCP/IP isn't very happy with more than 25% or so packet loss.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[MightyYar]

Same thing in the US. It just doesn't last very long if your outage is prolonged... maybe 8 hours on standby.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[OrangeTide]

My cell phone works when the power is out. The towers have back up power.

Nothing works after there has been an earthquake (I'm in California) because the land lines and cell phones are both swamped with calls. So I'm not convinced there is a perfect solution for reliable emergency service.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[Anonymous Coward]

If you use the phone line to charge something, especially during power outages, you're an asshole. That power is limited and needed to keep the PSTN working. The more current you draw, the quicker it runs out.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[MightyYar]

Well, that's less than ideal. It's not a practical problem anyway, since everyone has a cell phone - in an emergency I don't need to run down to the basement, plug in the fiber router, and then run back up to a hardwired phone - I just take the phone out of my pocket and dial 911.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[Albert71292]

Around three years ago, we had a power outage here (northeast Louisiana area) that lasted two and a half days. The old fashioned "POTS" line was down the entire time also, no dial tone (I have a wired handset phone on my home office desk). That's when I decided to start saving around $30/month by switching to a Voip service. I figured, "Hey, if the expensive landline fails during an outage also, what's the difference?"

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[edtice1559]

So why have a land line at all?!

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[MightyYar]

Excellent question! In my case it serves as a redundant line for the alarm, but we really only have it because it comes "free" with our internet bundle.

We also call internationally fairly frequently, but for that I have a VOIP phone hooked up to the house wiring through an Obi device. This also lets us call the house with our cell phones and then forwards our international calls (though I use an Android SIP app if I have a decent internet connection). For my wife it's easier to just call the house, and besides that it lets me route the call to the cheapest SIP provider for that country.

Finally, we have an actual address tied to 911 - so that can speed the response in an emergency.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[mikael]

Because the UK has a "window tax" on fibre optic cabling:

https://www.uctoday.com/featur...
https://www.theregister.co.uk/...
The Tax Valuations Office considers fibre-optic cabling a value-added asset to a company. The more kilometers and strands of fibre-optic cabling to your premises, the more thousands of pounds of tax your company has to pay each year (starting at £2000 for the first km). For BT and Virgin Media, that runs to billions of pounds of tax each year. Thus the pressure to gets as much capacity out of a single strand of fibre-optic as possible, and the government loves the revenue. They don't want competition that would simply bring prices down.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[Guybrush_T]

Power outages are still a thing in the States. Not sure about the UK.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[MightyYar]

I finally killed my fax service, but for probably 10 years or so I was using an email-based fax service that was just a few bucks a month. Cheaper than maintaining a dedicated line even if you ignore the cost of the fax machine and supplies.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[AmiMoJo]

Thanks, that's really interesting.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[MrL0G1C]

Very rare, usually they only last a couple of minutes and there's less that one outage per year that I've noticed.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[dryeo]

I keep a wired phone around for just that reason. It also has a light under the buttons which is handy to tell if the line is live. Had mice chew the line under the house before and assumed the no dial tone was due to wire thieves as usual.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[dryeo]

I've had lots of 3 day outages (far enough out that we're last on the list to fix) and only once did the POTS go down. The phone lines are a lot more stretchy then the power lines. After a storm. I've gone into town and seen the tree on the lines that broke the power lines, the phone line would just be stretched to the ground.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[jmccue]

crap, meant to mod informative. It is AC anyway. So I will chime in, I know many people in my area, that regularly loose power and when that happens it is for a minimum of 3 days. All of them have VOIP and after 8 hours no phone and cell is very iffy. I have a land line and only lost it once many many years ago, rest of the time I can call without issue. As the parent said, what can be done over copper is quite amazing, I even read there is a way to use copper to get very high-speed internet, but we are stuck paying comcast et/el to build nonexistent/invisible infrastructure. Funny Ma Bell and no issues with the last mile.

Re: Sucks if you have no power

[MightyYar]

Yes, I'm sure Verizon did the math. Doesn't really console you when a big storm knocks your power out for a week.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[necronom426]

I suppose it depends were you live. Small villages in the middle of nowhere may still get them, but I can't remember in which decade we last had a power cut.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[WindBourne]

that is interesting. Is not the phone a VOIP? Because if so, it simply means that they are choosing to block the broadband.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[jellomizer]

But the thing, is that they are "Retro" telephone.

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[MightyYar]

If that's the case, then getting through probably won't do you any good :)

Re:Sucks if you have no power

[PPH]

Is not the phone a VOIP?

For my FiOS, if I were to buy their phone service, they would use a VOIP converter built into their network interface device (the box on your wall). When the power goes out, their battery continues to power their VOIP line and the copper loop into your residence, but not the broadband Ethernet and CATV interfaces.

good bye

[mapkinase]

high quality audio conversations

Re:good bye

[OneHundredAndTen]

High quality audio conversations over the traditional POTS? Are you serious?

Re:good bye

[bigfinger76]

We still have a landline, and the quality is invariably better than my cellphone or the VOIP at work. Plant quality varies.

Re:good bye

[thegarbz]

high quality audio conversations

300Hz to 3300kHz.... "high quality" ... I can only assume the rap music has wreaked your ears or your brain for you to come up with that post.

Re:good bye

[mapkinase]

>VoIP done right

>VoIP done cheaply

You seem to be posing two options.

Get off my Internet!

[GrBear]

So.. if you can't afford broadband, or don't want it for whatever reason, you're going to be without a phone line?

Back in the day, a landline was $8 a month and would give you data via dialup. Good luck finding a broadband replacement for double or triple that.

Re:Get off my Internet!

[darkain]

You're funny. Today, at least in the Seattle area, a POTS line is ~$60/mo after taxes/fees. Broadband internet is much cheaper than a POTS line now.

Re:Get off my Internet!

[Patent Lover]

You forgot the 20 some dollars in taxes/fees/line charges.

Re:Get off my Internet!

[TheRaven64]

If you can't afford broadband, you can't afford a BT phone. We have their FTTP service, but are required by them to pay for a landline service that we don't even have a phone plugged into. Their line rental costs more than both of us pay for the mobile phones that we actually do use. If you actually make calls on the BT phone, it becomes even more expensive.

what about elevator / lift phones?

[Joe_Dragon]

what about elevator / lift phones?

Re:what about elevator / lift phones?

[Megane]

Do you think they're going to force the entire on-premises wiring to be all fiber right up to the phone? Are you actually retarded or just pretending? They only care about what goes up to the point of presence, where it ends in a VoIP box with a local power supply (with a battery if you're lucky) and a standard analog phone jack.

Re:what about elevator / lift phones?

[Joe_Dragon]

well some fire codes may say that the elevator / lift must have it's own hardwired phone line.

Re:what about elevator / lift phones?

[gigne]

this doesn't affect last leg, it's the core network. The inter-exchange network. Have three PSTN cables to the lift if you want, that hasn't changed.
I appreciate you thinking up a scenario I hadn't considered (considering the hard time you seem to be getting). At work we are going voip, and having a massive PSTN tear out. I'd better check some regs on power continuity.

Re:Prson-State draws closer

[Errol backfiring]

Are you on VOIP? some characters did not come through...

VOIP != POTS

[sjbe]

That's not the end of land lines. It's the end of POTS service. You can have a land line that uses VOIP and doesn't require a general purpose internet connection. I've got one sitting right next to me in my office. It's a phone but it uses it's own routers and isn't connected to our office computer network in any meaningful way.

Re:VOIP != POTS

[MrL0G1C]

It might not require a 'general purpose' internet connection but it obviously does require an internet connection. [Shrugs.]

Too little, too late

[u19925]

By 2025, no one will be using traditional voice phone, even for mobile. All communications will be via SSL via end to end encryption and majority will be via custom apps (WhatsApp, Snap, FaceTime etc). Numbers will be used only as an identifier for the source and target devices. Many people already prefer such apps over phone number as they don't want to share phone numbers. The apps provide much richer control than standard telephone provides. What we lack is standardization and legal aspects (I have to provide my phone number to all govt and private businesses).

Re:Too little, too late

[rogoshen1]

This prediction makes Kurzweil seem sane. Simple and good enough almost always win out. That and the vast majority of people do not share that level of interest in privacy or security.

Not surprising

[Kjella]

Here in Norway 85% of the PSTN/ISDN customers are gone since the peak in the early 2000s. Fiber is now biggest and growing, cable is second and holding steady through upgrades so replacing the last mile is not necessary while xDSL is third and dropping. Pretty much all new installations are now fiber, no matter who does it. Our main telecom operator already suggested this once before, I think mostly to see how much resistance they'd get and get the ball rolling. The problem are those where it's not cost effective to put fiber in the ground, but it was probably not cost effective to put copper in the ground either. I think that eventually we'll convert the requirement that you must deliver phone access (wireless service okay) into must deliver Internet access of a certain bandwidth/cap/quality. We still got at least 2-3 years of massive commercial roll-out before that though, let's see where we're at then.

Legal implications?

[Harvey Manfrenjenson]

I know this story is about the UK, but clearly the US telecoms are moving to VOIP as well, and I wonder about the legal implications. If phone service is now considered an "online service", does the FOSTA/SESTA legislation apply to it? Will telecoms be required to monitor the content of phone calls in order to make sure that no one is committing a crime? How will this affect the ease with which LEOs can monitor or record your phone calls?

Landline VoIP =/= GSM

[denisbergeron]

Did all VoIP use GSM ? Didn't just use landline differently ?

VOIP doesn't mean wireless?

[argStyopa]

Er "Landline"...means a phone connected to the wall.
I have a VOIP phone on my desk - it's connected to the wall, it's still a landline despite being VOIP.
"Switching to VOIP" doesn't mean "getting rid of landlines" at all.

*PERSONALLY* while I can see the compelling reasons for not having essentially 3 parallel wire-systems to residences (phone, electrical, cable/internet), living in rural America where the power goes out at least a handful of times a year, we find it helpful to KEEP a pots phone account just as a backup for emergencies.*

*for those who don't know, pots phones carry their OWN CURRENT; so even if power is out, you can still make calls (to say nothing of disregarding the congestion/power status of local cell towers)....at least up until the point that the local telco converts pots to VOIP at switch-stations.

Collect Calls

[FuzzyFox]

Land lines can accept Collect Calls. Where the person calling you might be stuck in a situation where they are far away, and can't afford to pay for a call (such as a pay phone, stuck in a prison, in jail for some reason). They can ask the operator to reverse the charges, so that you, the one receiving the call, can talk to that person.

VOIP phones don't have the billing infrastructure and laws/regulations that require they have this ability. As a result, loss of land lines means less and less ability for a family member to be able to reach you in an unexpectedly harsh emergency.

The only reason I still have a land line is because this happened to me. A family member ended up in jail, and the only way that they were able to call and let me know was because I had a land line. If I hadn't had one, I suppose I would have found out... eventually? Somehow? It's hard to say.

I really feel like we're losing something, and not many people are giving serious thought to this particular service, because it's so rarely used, and hard to predict what conditions would have to happen for it to be useful.

IPv6 or central PBX over VPN?

[iTrawl]

So... does this mean BT will actually introduce IPv6 for consumers or will it be a VPN type of deal for the VoIP channel and we'll still be praying for IPv6 in the year 3000?

Re:IPv6 or central PBX over VPN?

[Dagger2]

They've already deployed IPv6 to their entire consumer customer base.

(Unfortunately the routers they used to give out don't do v6, so if you have a "Home Hub 5" or earlier then you'll need to get that replaced, which is why only 35% of their users are actually using v6 rather than the 93% or so that Sky are at. But they are in fact providing it.)

Again, not sure about the UK

[rsilvergun]

but in America poor rural areas might be a couple weeks without power following a major disaster. Heck, parts of Puerto Rico still don't have power...