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Engineers Are Leaving America For Canada (bloomberg.com)
An anonymous reader shares an excerpt from a report via Bloomberg: The H-1B was created in 1990, part of an immigration overhaul signed into law by President George H.W. Bush that also created the EB-5 investor visa -- the subject of a fracas involving Kushner Cos. seeking Chinese investment -- and the diversity lottery, which Trump has attacked. Today, an estimated half a million H-1B holders live in the U.S. No one tracks exactly how many ditch their skilled visas for the permanent residency Canada offers, but during the first year of Trump's presidency, the number of tech professionals globally who got permanent residency in Canada ticked up almost 40 percent from 2016, to more than 11,000.
In 1967, Canada became the first country to adopt a points-based immigration system. The country regularly tweaks how it rates applicants based on national goals and research into what makes for successful integration: A job offer used to come with 600 points, but now it's worth just 200. Other factors like speaking fluent English or French -- or, even better, both -- have been given more weight over the years. Country of origin is irrelevant. In 2016, Canada increased national immigration levels to 300,000 new permanent residents annually. Last year, in consultation with trade groups, it created a program called the Global Skills Strategy to issue temporary work permits to people with job offers in certain categories, including senior software engineers, in as little as two weeks. Since the program started in June, more than 5,600 people have been granted permits, from the U.S., India, Pakistan, Brazil, and elsewhere.
In 1967, Canada became the first country to adopt a points-based immigration system. The country regularly tweaks how it rates applicants based on national goals and research into what makes for successful integration: A job offer used to come with 600 points, but now it's worth just 200. Other factors like speaking fluent English or French -- or, even better, both -- have been given more weight over the years. Country of origin is irrelevant. In 2016, Canada increased national immigration levels to 300,000 new permanent residents annually. Last year, in consultation with trade groups, it created a program called the Global Skills Strategy to issue temporary work permits to people with job offers in certain categories, including senior software engineers, in as little as two weeks. Since the program started in June, more than 5,600 people have been granted permits, from the U.S., India, Pakistan, Brazil, and elsewhere.
I've read multiple times that the H1-B program allows 85,000 applicants a year, but I've also read the half a million figure. Are they just not going home when their Visas are up? Are the Visas being issued for decades at a time so that they build up in the system? Or are they saying that most H1-B Visas are converted to permanent residency?
One thing I can say: Companies stopped training once they could rely on the H1-B visa program. One more thing, I know two or three people who were laid off and replaced by H1-Bs, which is supposed to be illegal.
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My company does power and HVAC systems engineering for buildings. There is and has been a significant shortage of people in this field over the years (it has always paid less than high-tech and finance, and to really succeed you need the same personality and skill sets). You can't just increase pay, because the fees you can receive do not support paying someone straight out of college $85k/year, plus dedicating significant resources to training. It becomes a 2-5 year investment (more on the HVAC side).
I had always been biased against the international masters students, as I generally found that they lacked some of the creativity that is required in our field. I have since been proven wrong, with two great hires recently.
Unfortunately, unless they can have their PE and be paid $91k after 12 months now, they will not be eligible for an H1B. General wages start at $55-65k first year, $60-70k second year, and $68-85k third year. So, they will leave...
This isn't smart policy. I understand the need to prevent companies like us using H1Bs to have someone work for $55,58,62...k and deprive good jobs for citizens, but keeping bright *young* people is a huge benefit. Instead, we hire and train people apuntil their F1(?) education expires, and they go home for a better job.
Everyone is looking to move up to do the best for their family. Indians to America. Syrians to Europe. Americas to Canada. Americans to Europe. The people first to move are the well educated with the capital to make such a move.
I have my MS and my wife has her MD. As a whole we've debated what countries would be best for our kids and their kids. Universal health care, fewer school shoots, treating mental health like a mental and not judicial problem and a host of other differences. Yeah, it reflects our politics. But it's pretty apparent the US isn't going to be what we want for our grand kids and their grand kids.
And you can save your breath, yelling at people on Facebook hasn't done anything either. I respect your opinion and your right to have your opinion, I want to live with people, like those in Canada or the Nordic states that share my opinion.
Where would they go, the US is the most right wing capitalist country in the world
Singapore is a low-tax authoritarian country which spends little on social programs, spends robustly on their military, executes drug dealers, and they even spank petty criminals.
I'll probably be modded down into oblivion for having a contrary opinion but I wish the USA would just get it over and annex Canada and Mexico already. Once people get over the knee-jerk reaction and actually think about what this would mean
Unless you get their permission first (and you can't), what it would mean is war on at least two fronts, and probably more. Even assuming the USA can beat both countries militarily (and then occupy them successfully, despite a complete lack of moral legitimacy), it's unlikely the rest of the world would stand for the USA going full-Lebensraum on its neighbors and allies.
At the very least, it would be extremely destabilizing, since every other major country would take it as signalling "open season" on their neighbors. Any semblance of diplomatic infrastructure more refined than "me want, me stronger, me take" would be destroyed for the forseeable future.
It's unlikely the benefits of "a unified currency" would outweigh the drawbacks of "endless war".
I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
As a Canadian who lived in the US for ~4 years before returning to canada.. Running back for health care would be hard. after 183 days outside the country they cancel it on you.
"All provinces, except Ontario and Newfoundland, require you to actually live in your home province for at least six months plus a day (183 days in most years) in order to be considered a permanent resident of that province, and therefore qualified for provincial health insurance (medicare) benefits. That means actually residing in your home province and being able to prove it, if necessary, not simply owning a residence there and living in Portugal, Mexico or California for eight or nine months."
With one of the highest rates of income inequality and poverty in the nation, it looks like California is becoming a state of ultra-wealthy tech overlords and their foreign slave labor. Yeah, anybody with a choice doesn't want to be part of such a dysfunctional social structure. And the irony is that these people still blame conservatives for the massive inequality, racism, and poverty in California.
In 1967, Canada became the first country to adopt a points-based immigration system.
So fifty years after Canada implements a merit-based (AKA points-based) immigration policy America-hating Americans attack President Trump and his administration as being anti-immigrant by proposing a similar immigration program. (Apparently the only good immigration program is one that increases the absolute number of immigrants admitted into the country annually...)
Ken
That sounds like the beginning of a joke.
You are welcome on my lawn.