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Surface Phone Speculation Spurred By New Phone APIs In Windows (arstechnica.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the under-development dept.

Microsoft has been rumored to be working on a "Surface Phone" for years now, with little concrete evidence that such a device actually exists. "But the latest Windows 10 Insider Preview has given new fuel for the speculative fire, it has a set of new APIs for cellular phones," reports Ars Technica. From the report: Windows has had integrated support for cell modems since Windows 8, but this has been restricted to supporting data connections. Telephony -- dialing numbers, placing calls -- has always required either Windows Phone or Windows 10 Mobile. This has made the full Windows 10 unsuitable for a phone. That may be changing. Windows 10 build 17650 -- a preview of Redstone 5, the next Windows update after the delayed April update -- includes some telephony APIs. The new APIs cover support for a range of typical phone features: dialing numbers and contacts, blocking withheld numbers, support for Bluetooth headsets and spearphone mode, and so on and so forth. There also looks to be some kind of video-calling support, suggesting support for 3G or LTE video calling.

41 of 77 comments (clear)

  1. Interesting timing by ArhcAngel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Normally I would just laugh and make a snarky comment about the 200 or so attempts Microsoft has tried to get into the mobile phone market but given Google's headlong march into Microsoft's Embrace, Extend, Extinguish territory there are a growing number of people looking for alternatives. Of course this is Microsoft so we'll see if they can stay focused long enough to build an ecosystem.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
    1. Re:Interesting timing by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The only reason they even made it as far as they did was because Nokia.

      Nokia already had a strong following, so Microsoft bribed them to adopt their piece of shit for $1 billion. Microsoft rode on the popularity of that brand, which consequently gave it better sales in Europe. Then their shit platform dragged Nokia's name in the mud, so people stopped buying them. Even when they did buy them, the return rate was so high that even Amazon suspended its sales a few times.

      Even Bill Gates was quick to switch to Android at the end.

    2. Re:Interesting timing by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      I disagree. My partner had a Nokia Windows Phone and reluctantly gave it up for an Android phone a few months back when it became so old that the TLS stack wouldn't connect to modern servers. She liked both the hardware and the software and still finds Android clunky in comparison. She'd still be using it today if Microsoft had managed to persuade third-party developers to invest in the platform. The one thing that she does like about Android is that when she sees a company telling her that they have an app, they actually do for her phone now.

      If you could run Android apps on a Windows phone, I'd probably have got one as well - it's the only mobile UI I've used that hasn't annoyed me (I have an Android phone and an iPad).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Interesting timing by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I disagree.

      An anecdote does not data make. I know a few people who liked Windows phones, but it is undeniable that they were widely hated, sales were suspended due to return rates, and that it killed Nokia.

    4. Re:Interesting timing by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      I know a few people who liked Windows phones, but it is undeniable that they were widely hated

      But were they widely hated by people who actually used them? I have only met a few people that used Windows phones, but each one has liked it and been sad to give it up. I've met a lot of people who hate Windows Phone, but none of them has used a Windows phone for more than 2 minutes in a shop and most of them never even held one in their hands. Mobile phone shops were hiding Windows phones and steering customers away from them.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    5. Re:Interesting timing by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      But were they widely hated by people who actually used them?

      No. They were loved by the droves of people who returned them in volumes that caused some vendors to withdraw them from sale. /sarcasm.

    6. Re:Interesting timing by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Do you have a citation for Windows Phone getting higher return rates than other phones? And, if you do, how many of those people returned them because they didn't like Windows Phone and how many because there weren't any third-party apps?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    7. Re:Interesting timing by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The only cite I have is from Amazon suspending the Lumia 950. Other various numbers I've seen have been similar to or worse than the competition (yet never increasing above single digits). That said I've also seen an article talking about Windows phones having the best numbers evar according to research funded by MS.

      Anyway no idea why. Could be lack of apps (the market place is shithouse), maybe it's the weird tile crap that people either love or hate, I highly doubt it's technical given Nokia generally has a reputation of not producing craps.

  2. 'First they laugh at you.' by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

    There. My topic line shoul cut back, at least a little, on all the forthcoming Windows Phone quips in this discussion.

    1. Re: 'First they laugh at you.' by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Citation needed.

  3. Might be cool by Archfeld · · Score: 1

    It might be cool if they could work cell phone functionality into the OS so it could make like it was a cell phone and connect using VoIP. Of course even if they did it would be so insecure that it would amount to getting your phone hacked.

    --
    errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
  4. everything is data now by johnjones · · Score: 1

    everything is data...

    To be able to say that you support full LTE or even have a full bluetooth stack you need to support call features...

    The "phone" companies are a major channel that microsoft would dearly like to be selling their windows 10 devices this is simply about sales...

    if you look at a apple device they have imessage on the desktop and Windows 10 has Skype neither are great revenue providers for telecommunications companies nor do they provide loyalty to them...

    John

    1. Re: everything is data now by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      You said everything is data now. So why would the irrelevant telecoms not fade into the sea of data?

  5. For Cortana? by RhettLivingston · · Score: 1

    Google Home and Alexa already have phone calling. Cortana started on and is still primarily used on the desktop. If Microsoft were to enable Cortana and Windows in general to make free calls over the internet without additional software, that would be a big plus.

    1. Re:For Cortana? by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Informative

      If M$ were to drop the Windows anal probe 10 and forced software installs, that might help but I think the trust is gone and people will simply not buy any consumer level software from M$ they do not have to for existing compatibility. Games are keeping them afloat in the consumer market but that market hold is diminishing. They had better start being really, really nice to their customer base, otherwise there will be no recovery. I doubt it though, they are still driven by corporate arrogance and wont change until it is too late.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    2. Re:For Cortana? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      What makes you think any of that? I have news for you, in the consumer space people don't give a crap. They don't give a crap about spying, they don't give a crap about updates, bling, features, they just don't give a crap what OS their computers run.

      Consumers love the status quo. The whole Windows 10 spying thing came in long after the completely lackluster interest in the upgrade. Windows OS level upgrades have been driven by computer sales since the days where Windows stopped shipping on floppy disks.

      There's nothing really that MS could do to drive improved adoption short of sending someone out in the middle of the night to hit old computers with hammers. Conversely for all their anti-consumer tactics their OS is still steadily being adopted at the same rate as new PCs (for obvious reasons), so they are able to do little to convince people not to upgrade as well.

      CONSUMERS DON'T CARE. Not one iota.

    3. Re:For Cortana? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      While I generally agree with your premises, and that consumer "trust" in MS is low, I think you are giving the general populace FAR too much credit.

      Litmus Test / Proof: Look at the number of people who have actually stopped using FecesBook after the scandal. Only 10%?

      People are generally apathetic towards computers. They have become complacent. They don't know, and don't care, about software, hardware, privacy, security. e.g. Even in 2018 you STILL read about some dumb-asses that stores their passwords in plain text!

      The problem is that Office and Exchange have their tentacles in the corporate world. While LibreOffice is good, people STILL need to exchange documents. PHB (Pointed-Haired-Bosses) "need" shared Calendars. There is just too much momentum and inertia in the entire MS ecosystem.

      If people were smart they would:

      * Set a date, say 5 years in the future,
      * Make a game plan towards transitioning to free alternatives, and
      * Ditch the proprietary MicroShift once and for all.

      Unfortunately, that requires work, time, money, knowledge, commitment, and coordination. There are far too many other higher priority problems that need to handled. People generally aren't interested in the long term -- especially when the short term of switching provides almost no benefit, and doing nothing doesn't make things worse.

      People don't know how to look at the bigger picture, and agree about what action to take. It is partially why we have Government regulations -- because people, for the most part, aren't self-disciplined.

      In other news: MicroShaft has become IBM. Boring but Safe.

      Ironically, 33% of Azure runs on Linux. Heck, you can even get Azure Linux certification

      Even MS uses open source when it helps their bottom line. LOL.

    4. Re:For Cortana? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I azure you, Microsoft is not going anywhere.

      MacBook: $1300/1600
      MacBook Air: $1000/1200
      MacBook Pro: $1300/1500/1800

      The sub-$1000 laptop market? Windows, Windows, Windows... and 2% Chromebook/Linux. They got 98% of Steam users. Probably 98% of the corporate market too, since Apple doesn't give a shit about anything like AD. Two more years and Windows 7 is out of support, then what? YotLD now that's a good laugh, it's exactly where it was 10 years ago. Unless Apple or Google makes a real move for the mainstream desktop soon it'll be the One Microsoft Way. I'll go Linux but I have no illusions the masses will follow.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:For Cortana? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      You're right, this has always been the way and many people (particularly on sites like this) seem to struggle with the concept that users do not care about the operating system. People will switch from Windows if their applications stop running on it or if they move to applications only available on other platforms.

  6. Re:For decades.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For decades we could not get developers to look at ANY platform other than DOS/Windows and then Windows 95/98/2k/XP

    Now people have enough sense to write portable code and treat "platform" as a commodity.

    If your a developer and your writing Win32/64 apps you are a relic of a bygone era, similar to the mainframe dudes when they were king of the hill.

    If you're a developer and you're writing smartphone apps chances are pretty high you are just another tool wasting your time on worthless consumer noise. SNR in the App market is embarrassing.

    You can say the writing is on the wall, the PC will die on the desktop while computing moves on.

    I've been hearing this load of crap for decades. Surprise everyone developing software are still using real computers not tiny touch screen displays.

    The only thing that has changed is more people have more choice on what is the best fit for them. Nothing has been supplanted.

  7. Re:For decades.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You know, for all the choice that I have in the market today, I still find myself in front of a desktop-style workstation, even if it's a laptop with a mouse and monitor. Mobile devices are great if you need "mobile" but there's no substitute for proper time-tested human interfaces when you want to do more than play internet games and print recipes. Touchscreens are terrible input devices for almost all computing tasks, only working out better than a television remote or video game controller. Phones suck except for their ability to always be there when you least expect to need a computer and they made the mistake of dumping all physical keyboards a long time ago in favor of grossly inferior touch keyboards. Tablets have all the disadvantages of a touchscreen phone in a larger form factor and once you put it in some kind of keyboard dock you'd be better off with an actual laptop.

    I was going to disparage laptops for poor upgradability and weaker CPUs and insufficient storage capacity, but with many cheaper brand-name desktops using what is essentially a laptop platform in a mini-ITX motherboard form factor with soldered CPUs and one or two PCIe slots if you're lucky, the power and value of a desktop over a laptop has been diminished somewhat. I broke down and bought a gaming laptop and a big 21:9 external monitor for nicer video editing, but in retrospect I really should have just built a powerful desktop instead.

  8. Spearphone! by clarksonator · · Score: 1

    Count me in! Thatâ(TM)s easily worth $800 and all of my privacy.

  9. Re:For decades.... by exomondo · · Score: 3

    You can say the writing is on the wall, the PC will die on the desktop while computing moves on.

    The PC will always be relevant on the desktop, despite 10 years of the modern smartphone (and 8 of the modern tablet) we still have a vast array of applications from image, video and audio editing and composition along with CAD, CAM, CAE, BIM, simulation, 3D modelling, etc. applications that just don't work in a smartphone/tablet formfactor.

    The desktop is mostly dead for things like simple web browsing, email and general social networking as well as doing tasks like taking audio notes or the most basic video composition. Smartphones and tablets have become the core device for personal computing while the desktop PC remains for professional computing.

  10. Old News - Move along by filesiteguy · · Score: 1

    This is why they killed the consumer phone market. They realized they had zero chance against Android and Iphone in the consumer space and no one in corporate america was buying either. However, we all would want an LTE enabled Windows device that can run all the apps in a decent form factor.

    Now, does it play Minecraft?

    --
    The Kai's Semi-Updated Website Thingy
    1. Re:Old News - Move along by codecore · · Score: 1

      Surface 3 has/had an LTE option. There were ATT, Verizon, and unlocked version available.

  11. Not a big secret by sd4f · · Score: 1

    Rumours have been that it's not going to be a surface phone as such, the internal name is the andromeda device and there is some coverage of it. Basically, MS have been licking their wounds and realised that they didn't win in the 'smartphone' space a few years ago. This new device, they will refuse to call it a smartphone, because they see it as something different. Don't know if it's partially to save face or whatever, but the current mantra at MS is to create new categories.

    Another important thing to consider is PWA's (progressive web apps) which are probably the only sensible attempt at moving toward platform agnostic apps. This might go some way in attempting to help against the app gap MS has been plagued with, but who knows if it will take off. The MS store is an absolute mess, and it really sucks.

    From what I can gather, MS have recognised that they lost smartphones, and really screwed up with reboots and delays. They also know that with the way that computing is moving, they won't remain relevant if they're exclusively on the desktop. We'll still have to see whether this thing is any good though, but smartphones have definitely hit stagnation, the biggest innovation of late is removing the headphone jack... so seeing a new attempt sounds promising, but can't predict if it will deliver.

    1. Re:Not a big secret by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Another important thing to consider is PWA's (progressive web apps) which are probably the only sensible attempt at moving toward platform agnostic apps

      Progressive web apps are not platform agnostic apps. They are a way of (in essence) remote controlling an app running on a server. Yes, the GUI is platform agnostic and local, but you don't have the control you would if it was really running on your computer (the ability to run it offline, keep version X without upgrading, run it if the Big Company decides to start charging you.)

      Frankly, Java is a better solution on PCs, and any cross-compiler is a better solution on mobile. And I cannot imagine any "same app" not needing to be vastly rewritten between the two.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    2. Re:Not a big secret by sd4f · · Score: 1

      But if they (currently) run in a browser, wouldn't that mean that you generally see the same code across all devices, as long as they adhere to standards? They way I've been reading about them is that they are platform agnostic, unless the coverage I've read is technically wrong.

  12. Re:For decades.... by gravewax · · Score: 2

    Even for Web browsing and Email a phone or tablet suck balls. After 10 years the desktop/laptop is still an infinitely better experience even for those items. tablets and phones appear like they will always augment rather than replace desktops as they just don't provide the same experience.

  13. The days of disconnection are over by Darkling-MHCN · · Score: 1

    As if any modern OS would not support API for telephony?

    The days of disconnected devices and apps are pretty much over. Regardless of it's form factor or size these days you expect devices to have capabilities to initiate data connections, make calls, send text messages. I think this is an obvious evolution rather than an indication of an imminent product release.

  14. Re:For decades.... by Kjella · · Score: 1

    The desktop is mostly dead for things like simple web browsing,

    Goes to StatCounter to check... yep, 44% market share is mostly dead. Granted, mobile is bigger with 52% and tablets make up the last 4% but the hyperbole is strong.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  15. MS Phone = Phoenix by stooo · · Score: 1

    A MS Phone is like a modern technological Phoenix.
    It burns down to ashes every 2 years, and then is resuscitated in a new form of the same shit which doesn't work.
    This is quite a costly play for MS, so on the long run, they will run out of money.

    --
    aaaaaaa
  16. They have chance to get it right by donstenk · · Score: 2

    A third ecosystem is needed and a Surface phone that can easily dock into a large screen, keyboard and mouse setup could be enough to cover most people s computing needs.

    Add OneDrive for data storage, Office 365 and all you need is a phone that can dock in a monitor or tv to work or be entertained or dock in a car for navigation etc.

    Convergence like that finally makes sense.

    --
    Dennis Onstenk
    1. Re:They have chance to get it right by coofercat · · Score: 1

      MS stand a chance of getting convergence to work if:

      - They make Outlook/Word/Excel/Powerpoint work seamlessly in a browser. Right now it's no where near.
      - They make OneDrive seamless too - on Windows it's "not bad", but it feels to me like it needs a bit more love. On a Mac it's utterly terrible. IMHO, making it work seamlessly on a Mac makes O365 a pretty compelling option for Mac users on a corporate network
      - They find some way to make all this work on a phone. So far the UI has been terrible, or the speed was way too slow, or the integration was bad. It remains to be seen if the likes of OneDrive can be integrated in Android (or IOS) at all - but maybe they can do it properly

      That's a lot of "ifs" and a good number of developer hours to achieve. Time will tell...

  17. LTE in laptops by bernywork · · Score: 1

    How does 3G / LTE work in laptops now? Is that a device and it's managed through TAPI?

    I know laptops with SIM card slots, and the new surface pro also has LTE, how is this managed otherwise? Is this a new centralised API for this for device manufacturers to integrate with and build a modern interface to handle this requirement? Are dial profiles per user? So, how does Direct Access work in those situations?

    --
    Curiosity was framed; ignorance killed the cat. -- Author unknown
  18. Last Windows Phone was great by lamer01 · · Score: 1

    Except for the lack of vertical apps and such, the actual phone as a communications platform was superior to IPhone and Android.

    1. Re:Last Windows Phone was great by GabeGhearing · · Score: 1

      Was it?

      I had a WindowsPhone7 and the live tiles were interesting; but ultimately made the phone harder to use. Either I couldn't get the tile to display something useful or it was hard to find apps because the tile looked too different when it updated.

      I also remember getting copy/paste in an update(WindowsPhone 7.2?).

      The browser not being WebKit based meant you had completely different issues from Android and iPhone on the web... Technically it was fairly standards compliant; but was a pain in the ass to use.

  19. Re: Exciting news by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 1

    You should work for IDC, or Gartner. Maybe you do?

  20. Just.....no....fuck....no...not again.... by Bearhouse · · Score: 1

    Please. I've had to put up with WinCE - well named, since "wince" is what you did trying to program those things, plus the fact that MS regularly fucked you because the next release was never even close to being compatible with the previous...
    Software updates? Fuck you - change your hardware if you want that.

    As for the Nokia-era "Windows" phones, the Nokia hardware was typically OK, (especially the cameras, and at least you could replace the battery) but the interface....awful. Just gouge-your-own-eyes-out frustrating.

    Of course, all the above meant that the 3rd-party apps and hardware goodies market was nonexistent.
    Looking for your favorite app or a snazzy hifi docking charger thingy, well you're shit outta luck.

    Now, we can look forward to all of this with added Windows 10 spyware goodness?
    No. Just say no. Fuck no.

  21. Re:For decades.... by exomondo · · Score: 1

    By 'dead' i mean not a growth market, in fact it's rapidly declined in the last decade.

  22. Re:For decades.... by exomondo · · Score: 1

    Even for Web browsing and Email a phone or tablet suck balls.

    That's really a subjective view, you can quite easily say "well i don't like browsing on touchscreens therefore web browsing on mobile and tablet sucks".

    tablets and phones appear like they will always augment rather than replace desktops as they just don't provide the same experience.

    Yes that's my point. If you look at the tasks that have declined percentage-wise on desktop it's things like web browsing as they have moved to mobile (regardless of whether you say that sucks or not) but looking at the various industries the professional content creation remains on the desktop.