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Electric Buses Are Hurting the Oil Industry (bloomberg.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: Electric buses were seen as a joke at an industry conference in Belgium seven years ago when the Chinese manufacturer BYD showed an early model. Suddenly, buses with battery-powered motors are a serious matter with the potential to revolutionize city transport -- and add to the forces reshaping the energy industry. With China leading the way, making the traditional smog-belching diesel behemoth run on electricity is starting to eat away at fossil fuel demand. The numbers are staggering. China had about 99 percent of the 385,000 electric buses on the roads worldwide in 2017, accounting for 17 percent of the country's entire fleet. Every five weeks, Chinese cities add 9,500 of the zero-emissions transporters -- the equivalent of London's entire working fleet, according Bloomberg New Energy Finance. All this is starting to make an observable reduction in fuel demand. And because they consume 30 times more fuel than average sized cars, their impact on energy use so far has become much greater than the than the passenger sedans produced companies from Tesla to Toyota. For every 1,000 battery-powered buses on the road, about 500 barrels a day of diesel fuel will be displaced from the market, according to BNEF calculations. This year, the volume of fuel buses take off the market may rise 37 percent to 279,000 barrels a day, about as much oil as Greece consumes, according to BNEF.
Those electric buses are not yet zero emission in China - where most of the electricity is generated by coal.
They can be zero emission, when solar- or hydro-powered.
Diesel buses will never be zero emission.
But after you have the electric bus, you must close the coal mine, turn off the gas pipeline, and shut down the thermal power plant. Otherwise you just moved the emissions around a little.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled"
Retarded article. As always.
We all that Capitalism. Show me where the oil companies were promised that they were guaranteed to always make huge profits!
And all those Chinese buses running on electricity? That's great, but we know how China generates that electricity: coal.
Yes, we know China is committed to clean up. Wake me up in ten years when every one of their coal fired plants has been converted to natural gas.
Clean coal burning bus engines are the future. Bring back jobs to the Pennsylvania coal minors and make bussing great again.
Vancouver, BC has a fairly large electric bus system, and has had it for over 50 years. The trollybus system covers most arterial routes, and while the buses are primarily powered off the overhead wires, they can go for short distances (under 1km IIRC) on internal batteries. The latter capacity is primarily used to get around detours or accidents.
With one of these systems, your buses are as clean as your power supply, and you don't need to muck around with expensive/polluting batteries to the same degree.
...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
...is to create a comprehensive network of electrically powered public transport infrastructure. Spain is already the country with the highest per capita number of high-speed rail Km's in the world, and most EU countries now have extensive electric rail networks. Diesel public transport, by comparison, is slow, heavy, unreliable, and expensive but even that's cheaper and cleaner than individuals driving themselves to work each day.
American-style suburbia, with its heavy reliance on individuals driving themselves to work, is one of the most inefficient and polluting urban planning models devised in recent history. It's also an obscene waste of people's time when they have to sit idling in traffic jams every day.
On the other hand, China is by far the most aggressive investor in renewable energy. India isn't dragging its feet either. The USA is getting left behind and falling even further behind with its current stable genius in the Whitehouse. Without a sensible, well-informed, coherent energy policy, guess who's heading for a 2nd world economy pretty soon?
Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
Because coal is going to be big. Bigger than ever.
So the take home is don't convert a bus into a camper if you don't want to spend all your money on gas.
I must admit, while I was reading the headline I was quite sure it was clickbait materia. "Yeah right, no way in hell a few electric buses will hurt the oil industry" I told myself.
Well, look like I was wrong. I was very surprised to learn that China had 99% of the world electric bus but, when you think about it, it's not that surprising. They put the axe on many coal plants mega development because of the abysmal level of pollution in their cities so I can understand why they are the world leader on this. That "279 000 less barrel per day in the next year" is an impressive number.
Now, I wonder how it really "hurt" the oil industry. Does that 37% rise is to replace older gasoline type? How much is 279 000 compared to the world production? Probably less than 1% so I'm not sure "hurting" is appropriate. Maybe "make a dent on"?
Elok
Bloomberg posts this article today:
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-04-24/trump-has-it-wrong-when-it-comes-to-oil-and-opec
So the industry isn't hurting at all, but even China's demand will grow this year. I guess you could say demand would be even higher without the buses, but they're certainly not causing problems.
Buses seem like a prime application, limited range, slow speed.
More gas for the rest of us :)
Given that world oil production is around 35 billion barrels a year, 279,000 barrels isn't even a blip on anyone's radar.
Oh, wait...
https://seekingalpha.com/article/4164173-crude-oil-go-back-100-per-barrel
Long distance trucks switching to diesel-electric designs like the locomotives can halve their fuel consumption. All this with existing technology. No new breakthrough needed, just the mass production and economy of scales to kick in.
Then comes really new technology like the Tesla 18 wheeler truck. Then we are talking serious reduction in diesel demand.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Dude. Get some fucking help. No, really.
Long tailpipe or not, it's still not ZERO emissions in places like China.
Suck on that long tailpipe!
And on your many visits to China, what did you think of the air quality there?
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
There is little doubt that China has moved in a HUGE way to electric buses. And to be fair, it will hopefully make a difference down the road. BUT, the fact is, that China's Coal consumption and CO2 emissions went up last year. Why? Because China replaced burning diesel with burning coal. Keep in mind that China's AE was in use. Where did China get lots of new electricity? From coal.
However, China's reason for moving to electric has been to quit importing oil. These buses have made a difference. Way to go for CHina.
Now, with that said, the west needs to move to Electric buses. The reason is that other than Australia and Eastern Europe, the west has less than 40% on coal. For places like Sweden, Canada, UK, etc, it will make a noticeable difference in their CO2.
It will be interesting to see what happens when Tesla and other truck makers introduce semi-tractors. Over the next couple of years, transportation all around the globe, except for china, is going to see CO2 drop.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Until School buses and UPS trucks in the US are electric. Those are the two most vile smelling vehicles in my experience. (well other than the trash trucks and pig trucks obviously... I meant combustion emission-wise).
The only value the U.S. dollar has is as the currency the U.S. allows as the sole currency for oil producers to sell their oil. They can thus print infinite amounts of U.S. dollars and the rest of the world has to buy them if they want to buy oil. Without this backstop, the U.S. dollar is worthless and you are bankrupt if you don't own gold or blockchain coin.
...that China seems to be taking the lead on new technology. All the more painful knowing that this capitalist country "sold the rope" (manufacturing technology and all that flows from that, though we Americans are very great at being "fast forgetters") that the Communist dictatorship is using to so cleverly hang us and elevate them. Sigh....
.. where regenerative braking can put the energy back into the battery. They are also big, so have room for lots of cells. And most cities number their busses for the peak morning and evening rush, so there's plenty of opportunities to schedule each bus off the road for 2 hours to fully charge it.
But busses are only the start. All the problems with electric vehicles have been solved - we just need to ramp up battery production. All that remains to be seen is if the electric takover will be the major car manufacturers will writing off their investment in the internal combustion engine, or whether a raft of new automotive companies will take over.
So the rest of use aren't going to want gas much longer.
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
I notice you walked back your lie from here about those trucks reducing your CO2, 2-5% per year. Still without admitting you completely made up those numbers.
No one credible believes China had 5% emissions increase in 2017. You own link mentions this
He added that it was too early to be confident about the precise figure for China, which may range between 0.7 and 5.4% emissions growth.
Energy experts attributed the rise in China’s emissions to a revival of carbon intensive industries as the country’s economy grew faster than expected, but added they expected the growth to be “transient”.
The US is expected to see slower decline in its carbon emissions, from an annual 1.2% drop over the past 10 years to a decrease of 0.4% this year, with a return to growth in coal use, as president Donald Trump promised to rescue the coal industry.
Uselss ranting fatass virgin APK never beat anyone at anything, though if there was a world wank challenge, he would win.
We will be at peak oil due to Electric Vehicles ? News at 11.
Now, wait for electric cars, you'll see what happens in 3-4 Years to oil.
aaaaaaa
in a city driving scenario. All the stop and go wastes a lot of fuel in combustion engine vehicles, whereas electric vehicles can recover the
energy while breaking. So even if you use electrical energy from a coal or oil plant, you waste far less of it than a combustion engine. That
is especially true for buses, since they accelerate and decelerate more frequently during their trips.
the amount of oil consumed by greece is absolutely and totally insignificant at a global scale. 200k barrels a day is a drop in the ocean... literally. global consumption is about 100 MILLION barrels a day.
West, it is in a phase of stagnation, of the rich and powerful trying to preserve what they have.
No, what you want to say is overregulation and lack of self-confidence.
Why does the headline attempt to garner sympathy for a bunch of psychopaths hell-bent on destroying our habitat? Fuck the Oil Industry. Let them burn.
Cost of High Speed Rail on greenfield roadbed ~ $1,380,000 per mile without land acquisition
Signaling and Positive Train Control ~$375,000 per mile
Background on cost estimate for HSR roadbed
The electrification costs of $1,000,000 is about mid range for several sources.
Prohibitive? yes if the traffic density is low.
However for high traffic density, and when constraints eliminate using engines with exhaust (some tunnels), electrification can be reasonable when the entire cost structure is understood. The availability of battery powered locomotives (and possible supplemental batteries) could improve the cost structure, as it eliminates the requirement for continuous electrification on sidings, and low density spurs. ÖBB unveils prototype electric-supercapacitor-battery loco
Electricity!
Early bird gets the worm or second mouse gets the cheese. Depends on situation whether being first or second better. Perhaps the West will get a chance to leap frog China refining their development learning curve like the Japanese, Korean and Chinese did in electronics and autos did at first then some became better (e.g. Toyota, Samsung). While fuel inexpensive and production optimized for petrol vehicles the West harder to justify the conversion while tech still relatively expensive. The West especially US should be careful to align with global supply chain progress or risk getting left behind, so waiting to long has itâ(TM)s downfalls too vs the bleeding edge early adoption premium. Anyway China should get the favorable recognition for their electric vehicles progress. It is positive for most even non Chinese.
I may be stupid but I thought the whole point of electric vehicles was to consume less gas, which would of course hurt the oil industry.
If they did, your/our ass would be overrun by the Imperial "red" Army (1945-1990) or perhaps the Caliphate/Sultanate (Viena, 1683), so please shut the f up.
See subject: I love the musty smell of that guy's nutz now when I smell it I get all hot and bothered
He has an insatiable thirst for my ass and in the last 2 nights has dumped like 15 loads of cum in it
Last night I discovered stomping and was put in my proper place
APK
P.S. - I got my second erection in 20 years last night as felt cdreimer's cum dribble out my ass and down my scak. After that he put on some surplus military boots and stomped on my dick until it was limp and one giant bruise... apk
I have a bus-stop in front of my house (traffic begins at 4:30 am) and since my city uses e-Buses from the beginning of this year, I can finally sleep without plugs.
Many people get to decide where to purchase their electricity, as you well know from your own situation.
So you are saying it's just blind luck that the US produces more CO2 than Europe? Governments and businesses are just so much different between the two? No, the people in Europe demand better, and so the governments and businesses deliver.
You think the business in China care about being green? You think the government does? Both only do it because the people demand it. And they don't even get a vote or choice!
What car do you drive? And who forced you to buy that car? Government mandate, or did some business force you to buy it? What about people who walk/cycle/bus/train/work from home? Did the big bad government choose for them?
Even if you by a car, you still get to choose which one.
You decided to buy solar.
You decided to get an EV.
You decide what to buy, what to eat, what to do for entertainment, how many kids to have, where to live, where to take them for holidays, who you vote for, where you spend your money, what setting to put your thermostat on.
You are so special and choose, but the rest of America doesn't? They don't choose big gas guzzling cars and live in suburbs far away from their workplaces? They don't choose to heat and cool some of the biggest houses in the world? If the government forced you, why didn't it force all the others? Why are the governments and businesses so much more powerful in Europe to make their CO2 so much less than yours?
China would be happy to buy oil from Venezuela, and Venezuela would be happy to sell it to them, even if Trump (further) blows up the Middle East.
So China is still making a concerted effort to move to renewables, and the U.S. is still falling behind.
Just as Ford hurted the horse and wagons industry 100 years ago.
I don't see a problem with hurting an industry that's hurting us in return.
Like really, electric buses are hurting the petroleum producers? That's the story's angle??
How about, "Electric Buses Reduce Pollution", or "Electric Buses Reduce Noise", "Electric Buses Cheaper to Run"? All of which are both more positive and more plausible story angles. As a city dweller myself, I can easily imagine immediate positive changes that might occur with an electric bus system. Instead the OP writer chose to highlight an insignificant business impact on petroleum producers.
Clickbait!
Scotty P will make oil great again!
#MOGA
Electrifying busses is great - much better than electrifying passangers cars. All subsidies spent on electric cars should be moved to electric busses instead. Busses spend maybe 50% of the time rolling, passanger cars maybe 4%. Busses also roll around cities at low speed, a really bad use case for diesel engines.
However, once cars get self driving, autonomous taxi fleets will start replacing bus lines. Bus lines are quite expensive and also time-consuming for passangers. Autonomous taxis will be cheaper and better.
REAL GOOD. GLAD TO HEAR THAT.
China 399,000(exports) 4,210,000(imports)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Casteism
You make fake 'trolling' account sockpuppets to harass me with https://slashdot.org/comments.... & abuse downmods on me https://slashdot.org/comments.... you drug addict https://slashdot.org/comments.... in treatment for 'depression' (loon) https://slashdot.org/comments.... you bring your own misery on yourself starting hassles with myself for no reason too (let's see YOU do better - oh, that's right - you already PROVE YOU CAN'T) https://slashdot.org/comments.... & you attempt to spread YOUR OWN SCREWED UP LIFE onto others who aren't as "F'd up" as you.
Period.
APK
P.S.=> Apparently you are a PRIME EXAMPLE of "idle hands are the devil's workshop" being the do-nothing "ne'er-do-well" you clearly evidence yourself to be... apk
When you drive a vehicle that means that you never again visit a gas station, you'll realize why fuel vehicles are as dead as the dinosaurs that power them. For that daily convenience, you'll happily rearrange your occasional long trip to include one or two 30-minute rest stops while it recharges.
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp
The bit auto manufacturers are still hanging on the the internal combustion engine, still fighting the electric revolution. That's why the big auto companies are only selling tiny, low range buzboxes. Their moto is still, 'Electric cars aren't real cars. You need a real car.'
The car you want can be built now. But because only smaller companies, like Tesla, are building real electric cars, the prices are high. That will change, either when large auto gives in and writes off all their engine building factories as the scrap that they are, or when Tesla and other new auto companies take over the market.
Prediction for end of Universe #42: Fencepost error in Quantum_bogosort.cpp