Slashdot Mirror
Floating Pacific Island Is In the Works With Its Own Government, Cryptocurrency (cnbc.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from CNBC: Nathalie Mezza-Garcia is a political scientist turned "seavangelesse" -- her term for an evangelist in favor of living off the grid -- and on the ocean. Mezza-Garcia spoke with CNBC's Matthew Taylor about what she sees as the trouble with governments, and why she believes tech startups should head to Tahiti. This seavangelesse is a researcher for the Blue Frontiers and Seasteading Institute's highly-anticipated Floating Island Project. The project is a pilot program in partnership with the government of French Polynesia, which will see 300 homes built on an island that runs under its own governance, using a cryptocurrency called Varyon.
"Once we can see how this first island works, we will have a proof of concept to plan for islands to house climate refugees," she said. The project is funded through philanthropic donations via the Seasteading Institute and Blue Frontiers, which sells tokens of the cryptocurrency Varyon. The pilot island is expected to be completed by 2022 and cost up to $50 million. As well as offering a home for the displaced, the self-contained islands are designed to function as business centers that are beyond the influence of government regulation.
"Once we can see how this first island works, we will have a proof of concept to plan for islands to house climate refugees," she said. The project is funded through philanthropic donations via the Seasteading Institute and Blue Frontiers, which sells tokens of the cryptocurrency Varyon. The pilot island is expected to be completed by 2022 and cost up to $50 million. As well as offering a home for the displaced, the self-contained islands are designed to function as business centers that are beyond the influence of government regulation.
Along with a cryptocurrency, it has to use AI to keep the island afloat and manage it to be a winner.
Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
If they have no way of defending themselves, they will be taken over by mafia or pirates as soon as they seem profitable. Sad reality of this world.
Can we vote on which type? Maybe a monarchy?
There was a makeshift floating island called "the raft" in Stephenson's "Snow Crash"
The most feasible thing is building a community in the savanna or desert. Which is what most Projects of this kind do. If you have money enough to build and run a floating island, you'll have 5 times the money to do that. But I guess Peter Thiel has consumed to much like to realise that.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
"If you don't want to live under a particular government," she said, "people will be able to just take their house and float away to another island."
I think this organization does not quite understand the primary purpose of government: to provide protection of life, liberty, and property. Does this self-governing island have that ability? Who will citizens turn to if someone is murdered on their island? Or if someone invades their island? Or sinks it? Or if power fails? Food supplies fail? Water supplies fail? Currency becomes destabilized?
I think I'll stick with my own home country, thank-you-very-much. Sure, they're far from perfect, but at least I know they can provide for me the securities I need.
Along with a cryptocurrency, it has to use AI to keep the island afloat and manage it to be a winner.
And blockchain. They will be using a Blockchain to anchor it.
It would be better to spend the money replacing existing fossil fuel generation with renewable generation, and there's no point in switching to a monetary system that consumes 7 GW producing new money. Yes, there will be climate refugees, but it's cheaper to build a home on solid ground. Unless you really want your house floating around in a cat 4 or cat 5 hurricane...
As they will be setting up under French jurisdiction, they will be subservient to French laws and protections.
France already lets many islands in Polynesia govern themselves -- as long as they don't have any impact on other islands & generally respect french laws so if it actually comes to pass this will be generally more of the same.
There are islands in Polynesia where no non-inhabitant is allowed to stay the night. One in particular is about a 2 hour boat trip from Bora Bora. -- The islanders want to keep their culture pure but appreciate the tourist money.
Another island not too far away saw a few boatloads of Gendarmes come ashore about 10 years ago to put an end to another society that was "attempting to return to their polynesian values" and were treating the women as chattel so there are limits and the french Government will not hesitate to intervene if they judge it necessary.
Nothing new here...
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
Right up until the moment the local Somali pirate variant shows up.
Galt's Gulch became Ayn's Atoll.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Hold on... Cryptocurrency? And "off the grid"? I don't think those two things go together.
http://blogs.discovermagazine.... Basically, yeah.
Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
"If you're struggling to do business" - yes, this will become easier by limiting yourself to a market of 300 households! Oh, wait, no, they're thinking they're going to sell to the world, somehow? Do they have some sort of robotic manufacturing? Is there some sort of thing which enables them to not operate differently from the various other tax havens? No?
"just live under your country's administration" - yes, this will become easier by removing yourself to a location which is entirely dependent on the outside world for basics such as food and water! Oh, wait, no, they have compact fusion plants? New solar desalinization technology? Food replicators? No?
"proof of concept to plan for islands to house climate refugees" - yes, they can come with their various boats (one for shorter trips and one for long-distance travels, another for entertaining) and use their iPhones to connect to the free satellite Internet and day-trade commodities using crypto coins ... wait, did anyone tell these people that climate refugees are generally quite poor in Western terms? Like maybe they don't even have a feature phone, and their advanced economic knowledge is maybe about getting a loan to purchase some chickens to provide eggs to their neighborhood? Do they have some sort of OLPC-type system to enable technological take-up in a way Western economies haven't?
"This means there is stability, outside of fluctuating geopolitical influences, trade issues and currency fluctuations" - because cryptocurrencies and the Internet are SUPER DUPER DOUBLE-PLUS STABLE COMPARED TO TRADITIONAL SYSTEMS. These aren't so much enabling technologies as disabling technologies.
"people will be able to just take their house and float away to another island" - or perhaps the island they are connected to will just disconnect them and cast them loose to sink or swim, either because their household isn't contributing enough rent, or just because they don't look "right". That sounds fun! It certainly won't be abused to force people to labor in the households of the islands super-rich!
---
In my life I have gone from growing up on a rural farm to early retirement in silicon valley, and I frequently worry whether I've lost my connection to how regular humans operate. It's nice to see that there's a group of people out there striving to make me feel like I'm still quite grounded! It's like how kids think that milk comes from the grocery store, except the adult version where they have no comprehension about how anything they rely on to live works.
until the weather turns bad and the seas get rough, when the wind is doing 90 mph and the seas have swells and waves at 50 feet with occasional rogue waves close to 75 feet there is no safe place in the ocean
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
And that's not the only one. The is also the "Republic of Minerva".
Two key differences, it is not "beyond the influence of government regulation" since it is explicitly part of Frencb Polynesia which is in turn actually part of France. Some interesting points in the Wikipedia article about French Polynesia:
"Political life in French Polynesia has been marked by great instability since the mid-2000s"
Always a good sign... and
"Despite a local assembly and government, French Polynesia is not in a free association with France... As a French overseas collectivity, the local government has no competence in justice, university education, security and defense. Services in these areas are directly provided and administered by the Government of France, including the National Gendarmerie (which also polices rural and border areas in European France), and French military forces. The collectivity government retains control over primary and secondary education, health, town planning, and the environment. The highest representative of the State in the territory is the High Commissioner of the Republic in French Polynesia"
Overseas Collectivities are integral parts of France and the supreme local power is the French High Commissioner, and its ultimate head of state is President of France Emmanuel Macron.
So the notion that this little project will be "beyond the influence of government regulation" is delusional (or else pure hype).
But hey! It is being funded with an ICO! What could go wrong with that?
My projection: the only thing floating here will be the money people invest in the cryptocurrency which will float away.
In other news you can still send money to Mars One to see a colony be not built on Mars. Mars One really missed the boat (err... spaceship) in not creating the chance to invest in the new Martian cryptocurrency. But that may be coming if, their gullible (err... optimistic) contributors have dried up.
Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
Manmade floating "island" states are not a new concept. If anything, people have thought about them for centuries, and talked about the implementation details for many decades now. They never happen because they're wildly impractical.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_cities_and_islands_in_fiction
did you mean ===
Why not just get a boat as register it in Liberia. You can still make up your own crypto currency.
even better, don't get a boat but tell everyone you did get a boat. Call it your own country, so you don't have to register it. Then no one can determine the boat does not exist. take the money and run.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
I think this organization does not quite understand the primary purpose of government
Would that be "the primary purpose of government" as we wish it to be... or as it actually has been throughout history? Wee bit of a difference.
It seems that every few years some group with lofty ideals tries to launch such a venture. And always for the same reasons: To get away from the corrupt governments of the world and build a utopia where unicorns and butterflies will frolic for all eternity. Well, I have bad news: Those governments were created and run by... humans! Yes, humans, just like those trying to re-imagine a perfect future. The problem is with human (i.e. animal) nature. We're animals, and unless we completely redesign our core humanity those floating communities will end up in much the same state as the very world they are trying to escape. Cheers
They *already* have to have some form of agreement regulating how the residents help contribute to maintaining the place, hence they have a rudimentary government. Disputes will arise, mechanisms for dealing with future disputes will be agreed upon and it goes from there.
Beyond governing issues, the physical and logistical challenges of maintaining the islands will be enormous. It remains to be seen if they will be able to generate enough revenue to maintain it.
And of course, all they have to do is piss off any nation with a navy and the entire thing gets seized.
It will fail spectacularly and it will be a glorious moment of human hubris.
I have mod points. The reign of terror begins now.
Is a man not entitled to the HODL of his coin?
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
There's a good China Meiville book that also explores this sort of city.
'Atlas Shrugged' is more of a young adult novel.
(by the time you're 24 you have outgrown it)
The urban myth about an man-made "island" that would be self-sufficient, and free of all government regulation, has been around since - at least - the 1970s.
If they anchor over 12 miles off the coast of the closest Island, they will be in international waters and outside of the jurisdiction of the French government. Although the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea gives France a 200 mile exclusive economic zone around the Islands. At the very least the French could forbid them from fishing or setting up anchored wind-turbines. This assumes that the French don't take the position that the whole installation is nothing more than a "stateless, flagless, or unregistered" vessel
That's... a really good and simple description of every ICO ever.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
No, not a "wee bit of difference" at all. Unlike what libertarians and other history-deniers would have us belief, most governments have done as "wished". The only governments that really did aim to screw over people constantly were the nomadic raider cultures like the Huns and the Mongols. Most other governments were actually about trying to look after the people they ruled over.
Those that didn't were overthrown either internally, or by another government that had its shit together.
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
Naturally it has a cryptocurrency. If it had been conceived fifteen years ago it's constitution would probably have been written in XML. Twenty-five years ago and it would have had a domain consisting of a common English noun and ".com".
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Stick all the libertarian idiots on a floating pontoon in the middle of the Pacific, call it Rapture and wait for the whole thing to sink to the bottom of the sea.
I prefer that any day to you idiots who treat all adults as if they were perpetual children.
So this person wants to be away from government regulation, such as regulation on carbon dioxide emissions, ...and is preparing for climate change refugees. This seems highly contradictory as one would normally expect such a person to be in favour of regulations to prevent climate change.
There are certainly people who reject science because of the regulatory implications. In that case they are selecting for facts based on a desired conclusion. That is the irrational position. Surely one should base a conclusion on the available facts.
Nathalie Mezza-Garcia, on the other hand, accepts the best available science even though she is opposed to the regulatory implications. That is rational. In addition, she proposes an alternative to regulation. That is also rational.
This is really the debate we should be having. What mix of mitigation/adaptation is appropriate? Her solution of zero mitigation may seem extreme, but it is at least rational.
Bing Tsher E noted:
'Atlas Shrugged' is more of a young adult novel.
(by the time you're 24 you have outgrown it)
I was 17 when I read it - and I had already outgrown it by then ...
Check out my novel.
Reminds me of Sealand off the UK coast. You can now become a Baron of Sealand for £29.99. https://www.sealandgov.org/
You would need a quite big island, regardless of floating or not.
I doubt 300 households (lets assume 2 adults and 1 or 2 kids) manage that.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.
John Rogers
French Territory, so they fall under french taxation agreements. If they were truly independent with an independent armed force to protect it, they could legitimately set up a business tax haven island that could attract billions.
"...we will have a proof of concept to plan for islands to house climate refugees"
I thought that is where they came from....
5 out of 6 people enjoy Russian Roulette & 6 out of 7 Dwarfs are not Happy
The next chapter in my life won't be to move to another area where there is more government involved. After all of the shenanigans with the Trump and Republican Party, the next move I make is to the interior of Alaska; somewhere far away from both people and government. Why would I want to move to some tiny, potentially crowded makeshift island to have even more interference in my life? As I get older and learn more, if you want true freedom, you must go to remote areas furthest from civilization. Then you won't (well mostly, at any rate) be bothered by government or people.
Yes, but this is a boat that people will pay you to live on. That is their big dream : to be their own government that 'the right sort of people' pay to live in their country.
Yeah, but these are people who outright fetishize not learning from the past, so to them the failure of every attempt before is simply because those others were not as good as they are. Didn't you know everyone in the past was an idiot?
The great Pacific Garbage Patch seems to generally stay away from sovereign nations, provides a steady supply of plastic for expansion using semi-rigid tethered rafts/barges. It could make for a great R&D platform for plastic recycling, 3d printing, aquaponics, hydroponics, fish farming, algae farming, bio-fuel production, sea based poultry production and all types of other scientific and commercial endeavors. Just having a decent port for fuel and supplies could open up tourism to more areas. If it were properly planned, it could be a succesful, profitable venture in science and commerce, exploiting previously unused or wasted resources.
They probably would not even have to piss off a navy to fail. Just a couple of frauder websites, or kiddy porn distributors, and they might get their internet access cut, and that would probably ruin them.
So, the folks, some of whom have managed to have stable societies for decades to hundreds of years are laughable, but the folks with zero track record who are rejecting what we've already learned are the ones who are going to have everything work better?
I suppose it's possible, but I don't understand why someone would think this is the way to bet.
I assume that "free from government influence" means not paying taxes. The logical consequence is that such an entity should not benefit from free government protection from pirates. Will french navy send a bill each time them help here?
Technically 'SeaLand' can't move and had less than a dozen people on it but I'm 100% down with King Marduk I and whatever other octogenarians are still living on that WW2 era tree fort.
As long as Libertarians want people to have guns, someone will organize those with guns to win over others with and without guns. And thus ends your stateless society. Enjoy.
Or it's an imaginary boat you paid for that turns out doesn't exist
Empirical data shows that many adults cannot be trusted to be treated as adults.
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
China thanks you in advance for preparing some new artificial islands for them.
Hank Johnson will be vindicated.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
So you'll have a couple of maintenance folks and data-center geeks on a from-the-mainland shift-rotation schedule. The rich folks may stop by in their yacht once a year. They may not even stop in to check on their money-launde...er, offshore accounts.
Climate refugees...hahaha! Waste. Of. Money.
Oh, and the book: "Seasteading -- How Floating Nations Will Restore The Environment, Enrich the Poor, Cure the Sick, And Liberate Humanity from Politicians." Could the title be any more self-aggrandizing? These floating concrete blocks would accomplish nothing of these things. At least classic homesteading had natural resources and an available trading environment to work with.
"The quality of life is determined by its activites."--Aristotle
They have all been claimed or will be claimed if you make it viable try an asteroid plenty up there for the taking
Your'e all thinking it, I just said it for you
One good typhoon and one has to ask, were will the inhabitants go?
The project is funded through philanthropic donations ...
This seems like a pretty expansive view of what the term "philanthropic" means.