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Bitcoin Backlash as 'Miners' Suck Up Electricity, Stress Power Grids in Central Washington (seattletimes.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: Public hearings for rural electric utilities are rarely sellout events. But the crowd that showed up in Wenatchee two weeks ago for a hearing about Bitcoin mining in Chelan County was so large that utility staff had to open a second room with a video feed for the overflow. The turnout wasn't surprising. Chelan County, along with neighboring Douglas and Grant counties, has been at the center of the U.S. Bitcoin boom since 2012, when the region's ultracheap hydropower began attracting cryptocurrency "miners."
[...] As a result, an area famous for apples, wheat and conservative politics has been transformed into a kind of cyber-boomtown, with Bitcoin mining operations that range from large-scale, state-of-the-art warehouses to repurposed cargo containers to backyard sheds. By the end of this year, according to some estimates, the Mid-Columbia Basin could account for as much as 30 percent of the global output of new Bitcoin and large shares of other digital currencies, such as Litecoin and Ethereum. But as in any boomtown, success has come at a cost. As the cryptocurrency industry morphs into larger, more energy-intensive operations, the Basin's three public utilities districts (PUDs) are reassessing how they deal with it, and whether they can -- or should even try to -- keep up.
[...] As a result, an area famous for apples, wheat and conservative politics has been transformed into a kind of cyber-boomtown, with Bitcoin mining operations that range from large-scale, state-of-the-art warehouses to repurposed cargo containers to backyard sheds. By the end of this year, according to some estimates, the Mid-Columbia Basin could account for as much as 30 percent of the global output of new Bitcoin and large shares of other digital currencies, such as Litecoin and Ethereum. But as in any boomtown, success has come at a cost. As the cryptocurrency industry morphs into larger, more energy-intensive operations, the Basin's three public utilities districts (PUDs) are reassessing how they deal with it, and whether they can -- or should even try to -- keep up.
Keep tryin', assholes. I'm not falling for your money-laundering trap.
Regards,
Crowley
One good solar flare bankrupts the entire industry making everyone paupers. Why are people so fucking retarded?
Is there any evidence of intelligent life on Earth?
I hope the Bitcoin mining hardware and its installation conforms exactly to the local electrical code. Also, home users of more than a certain number of kWh per month should expect to pay more per kWh. Bitcoin is interesting, but it's a horribly wasteful way of transacting business.
The electric utilities have the authority for any new electrical service to say "we will give you this many amps for this size of building". And many of them do just for this reason.
Like maybe bring manufacturing back to this country using incentives like almost free electricity. It is just so dumb the waste we have here now, this country can't really afford it anymore if it wants to compete.
How do they know its miners. Could also be grow-ops.
Nano, for example.
A bit hypocritical to want to charge Bitcoin miners for how they use electricity while at the same time arguing that its none of ISP's business how their data pipes are used, no?
Is that something like the "la-ser"? Will it help me get my "one million dollars"?
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Jesus Christ, what the fuck are we doing.
I am not convinced that bitcoin mining is consuming as much as they claim.
it just doesn't add up.
~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
FTA -
In one case this winter, miners from China landed their private jet at the local airport, drove a rental car to the visitor center at the Rocky Reach Dam, just north of Wenatchee, and, according to Chelan County PUD officials, politely asked to see the “dam master because we want to buy some electricity.”
This is volatile and shaky ground to tread on. Bitcoin has many short term investors looking for pump and dump locations.
Using this type of process also raises concerns for nation security; An entire town or district can be wiped from the map at less than a moments notice by the Chinese. Playing the bitcoin game by purchasing power instead of land would appear to be another way to destabilise parts of a country.
Are (any) fiat-currency and (any) cryptocurrency really equivalent, as cryptocurrency fans claim?
For example, US Dollar and Bitcoin are really equals?
Value/validity/authorization of US dollar is provided/guaranteed by US Government (and in-turn whole US Public)!
Also, not to mention, US Dollars in any US Bank is insured by US Government!
What authorization/guarantee/insurance is behind Bitcoin? Nothing!
Sorry but that is the end of discussion then!
Why do you think Satoshi Nakamoto is really hiding his identity, if Bitcoin is really such a great innovation?
He is just someone does not like media/fan attention?
Or, could it be really because Bitcoin (and all cryptocurrencies followed it) are actually Ponzi Schemes?
(So he knew very well that law enforcement would come after him sooner or later?!)
If so-called cryptocurrencies are really good innovation, why they attract so many criminals/criminal activity?
Could it really be because, all cryptocurrencies themselves are scams, and that is why they attract all kinds of criminals/criminal activity?
If so-called cryptocurrencies are really currency, why no company/store can use Bitcoin as currency anymore?
Because the price of Bitcoin proved to be extremely unstable to use as a currency?
Would the result be different, if Bitcoin replaced by any other "cryptocurrency"?
Aren't all work the same way?
If so-called cryptocurrencies are really money; isn't people issuing their own money, illegal already, in all countries?
If so then, why they are still not banned in all countries?
Or, they are not actually virtual currency but virtual investment?
But, if they are actually investment, why we need/want them?
What would happen to world economy, if people invested in virtual investments, instead of real investments?
Or, all so-called cryptocurrencies are actually just a modified (made decentralized and paying variable interest) Ponzi Schemes?
(Price of cryptocurrencies would keep increasing in the long term (by their design), so it is equivalent of paying variable interest to all long term investors.)
Also, since all so-called cryptocurrencies are actually financial scams (Ponzi Schemes), that means, they cannot be the solution for any of existing financial problems of our world!
As more and more people invest in cryptocurrencies, it will become harder and harder to ban their trading everywhere (because people invested in cryptocurrencies, would try to stop anyone trying to ban cryptocurrencies)!
All cryptocurrencies need to be banned globally before it is too late!
Can't fucking buy anything with it, but it has raised the cost of electricity and hardware. All so some tards can generate really complex numbers, because other tards think they might be worth money. Fuck.
I remember getting into an argument here about four years ago about this problem with Bitcoin- that "mining" coins is based on everyone racing to use as much electricity as possible, and the number of kilowatt-hours burned per generated coin increases with time, as part of the design. "ATMs use electricity too" was the consensus opinion.
Now we have a "currency" that gets "mined" using more electricity than Ireland uses. The wattage devoted to this crap has increased sevenfold during the past 12 months. People only use it as an investment, making it useless as a currency. "Everyone accepts it as payment" doesn't mean anything when everyone who has it is too scared to spend it.
It is not exactly the same. The analogy is if you have an ISP who has say 100Gbps total capacity and you have one user using the 50Gbps to send streaming videos of kittens being killed. You would either stop the madness, or at least charge more to try and upgrade your connection so that the rest of the non-kitten killing users are not affected.
A bit hypocritical to want to charge Bitcoin miners for how they use electricity...
You are missing the point. Nobody really cares what they use it for, what they care about is that there is suddenly a huge and unsustainable demand for electricity in a region which lacks the infrastructure to deliver it without massive price increases for everyone. The network equivalent would be someone in your neighbourhood running a small server farm which completely sucks up all the local bandwidth so that your network connection gets slowed down and the cost to the ISP to upgrade it would mean that you would have to pay much more for your connection.
ISPs solve this problem by having tiered data plans: you pay more if you want to use more and if you want more than the maximum amount then you will need to negotiate with the ISP for the price. This way those using insane amounts of data will pay for it. The same should happen here for electricity. The only reason bitcoin is the issue is because it can sponge off the network more easily than say an aluminium smelter which would need special connections to be provided.
If the supply of cheap energy is not limited or is less than the demand, do nothing and share the joy.
Otherwise:
For residential users, have users sign an affidavit that they are not using more than a token amount of energy for business purposes, or have them provide a good-faith estimate of business use. If the business use is more than say 10% of their total usage, install a separate meter.
Charge residences the "cheap" rate for residential use plus up to 10% over as a "too small to worry about it" allowance.
Appropriate the remaining cheap electricity among all non-residential user and the "over the allowance" business use for residential users. If there is enough cheap electricity for everyone that month, everyone gets a low electricity bill.
If not, then the business and industrial users pay the brunt of the higher-priced electricity that is used by the community.
A simpler but more restrictive approach will be to say "only residential users get to get cheap electricity, and they have to install a separate business meter if their non-residential use is more than a very small amount."
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
And keep increasing that tax until the problem is solved.
Crank up demand for electricity to run mining rigs. To meet the increased demand, producers build more capacity. Once more capacity is on-line, burst the bubble.
Now there's a ton of excess capacity. Rather than letting all the new capaccity sit idle and earn nothing, the owners run it to generate something. This drives prices down. Everyone wins.
Rinse and repeat?
The pricing should be subject to market demands and when you buy more of something typically you should pay LESS. The more someone pays the greater the resources of the entity to produce and provide the demanded product. I absolutely would charge a customer purchasing a 2,000 of widget x less than a person purchasing 1 of widget x. For various reasons this makes sense. I don't have to support (on a per unit basis at least) the customer purchasing 2,000 of widget x so my resources are reduced. That also enables me to make more of the product! Which brings with it lower costs for everyone.
Unfortunately governments have been interfering in via subsidies and other means the electrical production and distribution world for over a hundred years now and this has skewed what we should be paying for things. We don't know what we should be paying because of this interference or even what we really are paying (because electrical costs are paid via taxes and other means rather than directly to the electrical companies who should be producing the product at cost rather than with tax dollars, or stolen funds really, because I don't voluntarily pay taxes outside of the threat of violence government puts out). And now that situations have changed where a business has few employees relative to the electrical demand they put on the system governments are getting upset because they feel they aren't getting the tax revenue they'd traditionally have gotten from other electrically consuming businesses. Easy fix is to let the electrical company cover the costs and remove the subsidies. Prices will go up- and when they do either the crypto companies will leave or they will find a way to supply the electricity at a price point that is competitive and make more money from supplying it.
Cryptocurrency is a great idea in general, and blockchain technology can accomplish much across many sectors and industries. It's a shame that Bitcoin is largely its poster child. More than three years ago now, proof-of-capacity was devised and solved the types of problems that Bitcoin and every other proof-of-work coin has in terms of power consumption. If you haven't checked out Burstcoin, you should. The community behind it now is pretty good, it's decentralized, it didn't rely on pre-mining and an ICO. Mining it doesn't destroy the planet. Bram Cohen is trying to get everybody excited about Chia coin mostly as if it's the first proof-of-work cryptocurrency, but the write-up is disgusting in how it weasels around addressing that it isn't actually very innovative (like somebody who tries to patent a wheel), it is still in development (if even), there will be a pre-mine and an ICO (weasels), and it's generally a less open community and development.
Go out in the desert in the southwest, buy cheap land, build a solar or wind farm, no transmission wires, bitcoin mining on site, less than wholesale priced electricity. Seems obvious.
J
Chia coin?
I'm holding out for PetRock coin. Maybe Ty can get into this and we can all get rich with Beanie Coin!
The fact that the investors are just hoarding the "currency" proves that it's not functioning as an actual currency.
p.s. Will someone please buy my beanie babies and fidget spinners?
IMHO Bitcoin is a criminal waste of high-grade energy and resources.
one group of suckers convincing a group of even bigger suckers to pay for something that has no value other than the fact that they've agree it has value
cryptocurrencies are just exactly the same as fiat currencies but without any backing at all
Fake news doesn't want us to know about Professor Stefan Halper.
Electric utility rates have several components
Some are related to the energy used
Some are related on the cost of having the infrastructure to deliver energy to your location
And then there are the hookup fees related to running wires from the nearest location where the utility has available capacity.
The problems feeding bitcoin miners power are similar to the ones electric cars create with their battery chargers.
The POCO sizes the delivery system for the expected demand, If the customer is doing something unusual (Grow House, Electric Car Charging, or other concentrated demand) the average load can be much higher than delivery capability. Load Diversity
-1 learn french
-2 pay 0.05$CAN/KWh in a cold weather 6 month a year.
-3 ???
-4 profit.
In this case step 3 seems to be "mine cryptomoney"
Something that doesn't get mentioned a lot is that what we're seeing unfold a tragedy of the commons. If every bitcoin miner in the world reduced their mining by 99%, the difficulty would scale down and they would all still get the exact same amount of bitcoin and use 99% less electricity. However because the system encourages each individual to keep adding capacity to get a bigger piece of the pie, the energy use has become grotesque. Its far beyond what the usefulness of the system justifies and to me seems like an unethical use of the common resources of our planet.
they're paying for their electricity, what's the problem?
You are missing the point: PAID FOR is PAID FOR.
There's also proof-of-stake coins like Reddcoin.
Disclaimer: I own between zero and nine quintazillion Reddcoins.
#DeleteFacebook
...for the sole purpose of speculation.
Unless they paid for the electricity in advance then it is not "paid for" and therefore they can increase the price for the largest consumers if they want to.
Is complaining fun or profitable? You rarely hear someone proposing to increase the capability of the grid.
...For wasting our fucking time and resources with this stupid bullshit.
Simple as that. Sure you can make money, but we are wasting so much electricity on essentially nothing, a fiat currency with no true backing except for all the graphics cards and electricity wasted producing it. Once the truly rich are ready to suck out all the wealth at least it should die down and maybe our electricity and processing power can be used for something productive.