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In China's Booming Tech Scene, Women Battle Sexism and Conservative Values (reuters.com)
In recent years, even as China's tech industry has boomed, many women say they make far less than their male counterpart for the same job. An anonymous reader shares a report: Reuters spoke to more than a dozen women -- and some men -- in the sector, from entry-level employees to executives, who described an industry where female engineers and coders battle against ingrained biases favoring men. "The traditional view is simply to think that women aren't suitable to be programmers," said Chen Bin, a former Microsoft engineer and the Beijing-based founder of Teach Girls Coding, a campaign to get more women into the sector. "Things are better now than ten years ago, but overall the number of women getting into tech is really small," he said.
China is not the only country where the tech industry has faced heat over a lack of diversity in the workplace. But unlike U.S. peers that have faced legal action over discrimination, including Uber, Alphabet's Google and Microsoft, Chinese technology companies are relatively opaque about gender issues. Most give little data on hiring and none of the industry leaders share the diversity reports that are now customary in the United States, shedding doubt on whether women in Chinese firms hold a comparable number of technical or leadership roles.
China is not the only country where the tech industry has faced heat over a lack of diversity in the workplace. But unlike U.S. peers that have faced legal action over discrimination, including Uber, Alphabet's Google and Microsoft, Chinese technology companies are relatively opaque about gender issues. Most give little data on hiring and none of the industry leaders share the diversity reports that are now customary in the United States, shedding doubt on whether women in Chinese firms hold a comparable number of technical or leadership roles.
Had to hear it for years from this side of the pond, now I have to listen to these fake stories from the other side of the pond?
From my observation, 99% of the time it was due to innate gender differences (guys will geek out over shit much more easily and spend an inordinate amount of time on it while even Asperger girls are more social than their male counterparts). As well as genders valuing different things and taking different career paths and willing to make different sacrifices.
But whatever, I'm sure I will get enough flak for my view here, but the last 20 years of fake Gamergate/Anita Sarkeesian bullshit was enough. Now I have to hear about it from China. Fuck you clickbait editors.
" Remember #gamergate?"
Yes, and I remember it started with a woman who made a game sleeping around with game reviewers, and getting outed for it by none other than one of her exes.
Apparently, you failed to be present at the beginning of the whole thing, so you're brainwashed by the false narratives put forth by Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, and more.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Yes, damn that Gamergate crowd for demanding that games be reviewed on their merit and not on the basis of what sexual favours the developer has offered the reviewer.
And yes, you should be moderated to -1 for your comment that misrepresents Gamergate. You apparently don't even know what it was about and seem to believe it was about Anita Sarkeesian. It's clear that you have preconceived ideas about Gamergate and have decided that gamers are a bunch of misogynists without even investigating what happened.
Obviously you assume that, in any situation involving a woman, the woman is always innocent and the men are always guilty. It is you who is the sexist.
So she is actually saying that women choose not to go into coding. There is no evidence that once they do, they are evaluated or treated unfairly.
Comparing to America? Why? It is supremely idiotic to believe America is some shining beacon of women's rights.
Compared to China, it is. America has its "#metoo" movement, while China has its "#woyeshi" movement. But there is a big difference: The Chinese women that have outed sexual abusers in powerful positions have nearly all done it from OUTSIDE CHINA, where they feel safe from retaliation. It is only after they have permanent residency overseas that they finally feel free to speak out.
Ever heard of false rape accusations where the female accusers almost never get punished?
This seems to be a common misconception.
In a rape case it is often very hard to prove what happened. There is often little or no evidence and witnesses. The standard for criminal convictions is "beyond a reasonable doubt" in most places and it can be quite hard to reach that bar.
But that also means that if the accused is found not guilty, it doesn't necessarily mean that the accuser lied, and even if they did it would have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt for them to be punished. Since most of these cases are just two opposing accounts of events being tested through questioning, it is rare for there to be provable lies that cannot be accounted for as poor memory or stress under questioning.
So the very same rules that are there to protect the accused also protect the accuser, even if the allegation is false.
Prosecutions for fake allegations, "perverting the course of justice" as it is known in the UK, and purgery do happen. But the bar for conviction has to be high, and has to be the same for everyone. Ironically you seem to be feeling the same frustration that rape victims often do, i.e. that it is so hard to prove and get a conviction.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Just stop.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
Erin Pizzey, the founder of the first shelter for the victims of domestic violence, had to run after getting death threats from the feminists for daring to state that violence is not a gender issue and more than 60% of women in her shelters where themselves violent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Now, applying "gamergate was about harassing some random people out there including those who have literally nothing to do with anything, bar being victims" logic, we can conclude, that feminist movement is about harassment.
I was born and raised in USSR, well known for its research institutes. Roughly 50% of folks in science were female, partly because the Soviet government aimed to treat men and women equally, and there was absolutely zero bias again women in lab coats. Except in leadership positions obviously - these rightfully belong to the Party.
This is Anita Sarkeesian endorsing Alex Mandossian. Alex Madnossian is basically a pick-up artist of Internet marketing. His attitude towards his victims is completely fucked up. He is a manipulative scammer and it is not hard to find the parallels in what Sarkeesian has been doing to get her position. That is a very manipulative and dishonest woman. It speaks volumes about you that you defend her.
I don't wanna sound racist or anything, but unfortunately I think China will have a very long way 'till it gets even close to western countries on this matter, which is still not ideal.
Setting US aside, let's consider some european countries and whatnot. There are very few countries that are really getting there, but still not quite.
Currently, China as a society has evolved at unprecedented speeds in comparison to the history of evolution of other societies.
I still remember a time when China was mostly rural, exporting mostly primary resources, and didn't have much in the way of technology to talk about. This was the case not that long ago. If you are too young to remember this, probably your parents will know.
Over just a few decades, less than a lifetime, China went rushing through industrial revolution, raising extremely modern metropolis in cities formerly pretty run down and primitive, and now the country is activelly participating at the forefront of technology and research in some areas.
Some people might not realize this, but it's because lots of people don't really know China. There are cities there that are basically on par with Japan in terms of technology, public transportation, technology in common spaces and whatnot. There are research areas like biomedicine and genetics that China is arguably ahead. Read some of the recent news... China just launched a communication probe in space to aid a mission that will be launched still this year to explore the dark side of the moon.
It's crazy how fast it has evolved. It almost doesn't make sense when you think about the comparison on how technology evolves versus societies.
But all that has a huge side effect. China did not evolve uniformly, these transformations had and still has huge costs, and of course things are not that simple.
It became a country of enormous contrasts. You have cities that look like Tokyo or modern european capitals, while you have towns in the countryside with people starving and living a life of subsistence. You have billionaires and huge investment groups that are among the richest in the world while you have multitude of workers slaving away to a state they prefer suicide instead of living like that. Most of western societies also have huge wage gaps and inequalities, but it kinda pales in comparison to China when looking at extremes.
Sexism can't be seen and treated in isolation, and people should not have some fantasy that it's gonna be solved anytime soon there because there are major shifts yet to happen before it even starts being addressed.
Remember people, China is a country where not that long ago, baby boys were hugely favored over baby girls. And this is a cultural phenomena that endured over decades.
https://www.theguardian.com/wo...
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/0...
This is a huge problem that cannot be solved in few years time, and it has massive cultural effects. Because it effectively created an artificial distortion... there are way more men than women in China when compared to proportions of other countries.
It's not only China too, it's just something that happens a lot in poor countries or developing countries all over the world.
https://www.npr.org/sections/g...
http://www.ibtimes.com/deadly-...
Even though some of these countries don't necessarily have a majority of people of faith in patriarcal religions and systems, it's just a matter of favoring boys because of base manual labor necessities and a prejudiced view that comes with it. The concept also became ingrained in culture, so up to this decade the tendency still remains.
Th
Finland literally just had a case where man sat in prison for nine months for rape before his accuser according to the biggest newspaper in the country "found God and confessed to the police that she lied about it".
He's still fighting in court to get his criminal record expunged of this. She was just given a small fine, told to return some of the money he had to pay her for her suffering and a suspended sentence with some community service on top of it. She won't spend a day in jail over this.
https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-...
Welcome to progressive concept of "equality" of sexes, where there's the arbeit macht frei men and ubermensch women.
What "conservative values" are they battling? Sexism isn't a conservative value you twat.
Why does their modding down have to be from gamergaters? I was going to mod the above post down despite having absolutly no love for those trolls as the post is just blatant flamebait or perhaps off topic. While there is still more to be done towards gender equality in the US, we're not that bad, especially when compared to the vast majority of Asian nations.
More importantly though, it just makes sense to compare the US and China on such things. China is the emerging super power and the US is the established one. It makes for a compelling comparison. Comparing China to Iceland (top ranked by the UN for gender equality) isn't going to generate the interest that a comparison to the US will.
The article is a comparison between super powers on gender equality
Maybe think outside the PC box sometimes.
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
> "Online mobs regularly go after any woman who dares stand up for herself"
Online mobs regularly go after people who dare stand up for themselves.
FTFY.
Do you honestly believe no one attacks men on the internet? If you ignore attacks on men then, yes, women get attacked more, but why ignore attacks on men? Is it okay to attack men?
According to your own link she had received a similar jail sentence to the accused, and much larger fines. Since the accused's conviction is still pending revocation then presumably this is not the end of the compensation he will receive (I don't know about Finland but in the UK there is compensation for wrongful imprisonment, loss of earnings, consequential losses etc. from the state).
Presumably there will also be a review to determine what went wrong and to prevent it happening again. Those involved may be sanctioned. This is far from over.
Look, mistakes are going to be made in any criminal justice system. It's impossible to have a 100% perfect system. A single anecdote is worthless though, what we need to see is data showing how often this happens. It's also important to look at how the situation is corrected, so it might be useful to know how quickly his conviction will be removed and what the total amount of compensation will be.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I'd like to remind everyone that the claim about sexual favours in exchange for positive reviews or coverage is a long debunked lie.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Where is the line between fabricated sexism and actual sexism?
Fabricated sexism: Women complaining about being paid less for 35 hours than men get paid for 48 hours.
Actual sexism: Paying men the same for 48 hours as women get paid for 35 hours.
> Girlfriend, if you haven't seen the evidence, you've had your hands placed firmly over your eyes the entire time.
People that defy Sturgeon's law move up quickly and get paid well. It doesn't matter what they have between their legs. The professional offended class has just convinced one group of losers that they have something besides themselves to blame.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Presumably there will also be a review to determine what went wrong and to prevent it happening again.
What is the point of pushing the narrative that is demonstrably false? Jesus:
The woman who made false rape allegations against a Texas DPS trooper will not face any additional charges.
Girl made false accusation of rape after her ex-boyfriend rejected her
Woman Who Lied to Police About 3 Black Men Raping and Kidnapping Her Faces Zero Years in Prison
Woman who made false rape complaint receives suspended sentence
I grew in USSR and women were not half of the scientists.
In math/physics fields they were in minority, somewhat less so in Chemistry.
USSR's Academy of Science was nearly completely male.
There were plenty of female engineers (about 60% if I recall it right), but it was also because that profession was paid poorly.
That's a completely different phenomena.
But good job twisting "oppression" in. Perhaps you could explain us this graph:
https://youtu.be/EqUtgFBWezE?t...
None of these stories are about Finland, and all of them actually support my point!
Texas story: Allegation made, no actual complaint or charges, at most it's a civil matter (slander) so why would there be criminal charges? Sounds like you want them to criminalize speech!
Ex-boyfriend: She WAS charged and admitted it (i.e. convicted)! She admitted wasting police time. That's a criminal offence. In fact the last line of the article notes that she is awaiting sentencing for her crime. You are proving that the system works!
3 black guys: She took a plea deal. As the article notes she plead guilty to "two third-degree felony counts of tampering with physical evidence, a third-degree felony count of tampering with a government record and a state-jail felony count of tampering with a government record". As well as a criminal record, she got 8 years probation, $10,000 in fines and 160 hours community service. https://www.dallasnews.com/new...
Israel: Again, suspended sentence.
What is your point here, that the punishment isn't harsh enough?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I am, but I wouldn't even consider working at a Chinese company anyway.
No, I mean many American companies will auto-reject any resume with a photo. Hiring someone with a photo on their resume leaves them open to charges of bias.
Even NOT hiring someone with a photo is bad because the applicant can sue and claim bias, since you saw their race and age. But if you have an auto-reject policy, you avoid that trap.
If you are an American applying at American companies, including a photo on your resume is a bad idea.
In all those cases there was not enough evidence to prove that they lied beyond a reasonable doubt. What part of that don't you understand?
Also note how the accusers were sued in two of those cases and lost, owning hundreds of thousands of dollars. In the Duke case the accused each got $20M. It really doesn't sound like there were no consequences or reparations.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC