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In China's Booming Tech Scene, Women Battle Sexism and Conservative Values (reuters.com)
In recent years, even as China's tech industry has boomed, many women say they make far less than their male counterpart for the same job. An anonymous reader shares a report: Reuters spoke to more than a dozen women -- and some men -- in the sector, from entry-level employees to executives, who described an industry where female engineers and coders battle against ingrained biases favoring men. "The traditional view is simply to think that women aren't suitable to be programmers," said Chen Bin, a former Microsoft engineer and the Beijing-based founder of Teach Girls Coding, a campaign to get more women into the sector. "Things are better now than ten years ago, but overall the number of women getting into tech is really small," he said.
China is not the only country where the tech industry has faced heat over a lack of diversity in the workplace. But unlike U.S. peers that have faced legal action over discrimination, including Uber, Alphabet's Google and Microsoft, Chinese technology companies are relatively opaque about gender issues. Most give little data on hiring and none of the industry leaders share the diversity reports that are now customary in the United States, shedding doubt on whether women in Chinese firms hold a comparable number of technical or leadership roles.
China is not the only country where the tech industry has faced heat over a lack of diversity in the workplace. But unlike U.S. peers that have faced legal action over discrimination, including Uber, Alphabet's Google and Microsoft, Chinese technology companies are relatively opaque about gender issues. Most give little data on hiring and none of the industry leaders share the diversity reports that are now customary in the United States, shedding doubt on whether women in Chinese firms hold a comparable number of technical or leadership roles.
Obvious article is obvious. /. too!
See, I can write news on
LOCKER UP IN ALCATRAZ PRISON
All these crazy accusations of sexism in the USA, half of them seem to be fabricated microaggressions. In China, I suspect it's actual sexism.
But studies show that on many occasions women don't know what they are talking about.
Had to hear it for years from this side of the pond, now I have to listen to these fake stories from the other side of the pond?
From my observation, 99% of the time it was due to innate gender differences (guys will geek out over shit much more easily and spend an inordinate amount of time on it while even Asperger girls are more social than their male counterparts). As well as genders valuing different things and taking different career paths and willing to make different sacrifices.
But whatever, I'm sure I will get enough flak for my view here, but the last 20 years of fake Gamergate/Anita Sarkeesian bullshit was enough. Now I have to hear about it from China. Fuck you clickbait editors.
Now would be an ideal time to tell you all about how much I despise moslims.
Hate is too gentle a word. Every now and then I get the urge to hate Chinese, but then I knock myself in the head and say "Hey Joline, wake up, girl! It's moslims who you really hate!". And it is just so. I hate moslims more than anything else on God's green earth. I pray that civilized people from Beijing to Patagonia will rise up and destroy all moslims.
Won't you join this quest for a cleaner, safer world? Thank you in advance!
Comparing to America? Why? It is supremely idiotic to believe America is some shining beacon of women's rights. Online mobs regularly go after any woman who dares stand up for herself. Hate speech and death threats are common. Remember #gamergate?
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
and not dead like all the other no-son-yet daughters.
Can't speak as to technology companies but authoritarian government tends to result in more women in the workforce, China shows this trend.
- Force women to compete and get destroyed in sports against transitioning men
- Promote female genitalia mutilation (DNC mouthpiece New York Times calls it cultural in their promotion)
- Encourage young girls to seek gender reassignment if they display any interest in boy activity
- Cover sexual assaults by democrat men
- etc etc etc
Me Chinee me play joke me go pee pee in your coke.
So she is actually saying that women choose not to go into coding. There is no evidence that once they do, they are evaluated or treated unfairly.
Just stop.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
Let me pity you, poor thing.
It's hilarious to hear AMERICANS get up on a high horse about rights vs. CHINA, their ECONOMIC MASTERS.
TOPKEK.
People need to realize the financial scale of SJW business. Since mid 90th USA alone spends more than 1.5 billion dollars on fighting "domestic violence against women", a case founded on outhright lies, called out in Christina Sommer's book, "Who Stole Feminism". It's one out of endless government programs spent with zero or even negative effectiveness.
It isn't just someone out there with some crazy ideas, ignoring glaring evidence, it is mostly people and organizations who are paid for solving made up problems it is people who would lose their jobs if we finally figure what is going on.
Like a cat shedding fur all over the carpet ?
Perhaps you were looking for "casting doubt".
many women say they make far less than their male counterpart for the same job
They say, they think, they feel... But the point is. Is it true?
That any culture that doesn't have female engineers is thriving?
Moment UK got chem engineers mostly females - their chem industry went down hill, AFAIK, coincidence?
US has got all sorts of advantages for females in STEM. And their engineering force is getting worse compared to China's. Coincidence?
I don't wanna sound racist or anything, but unfortunately I think China will have a very long way 'till it gets even close to western countries on this matter, which is still not ideal.
Setting US aside, let's consider some european countries and whatnot. There are very few countries that are really getting there, but still not quite.
Currently, China as a society has evolved at unprecedented speeds in comparison to the history of evolution of other societies.
I still remember a time when China was mostly rural, exporting mostly primary resources, and didn't have much in the way of technology to talk about. This was the case not that long ago. If you are too young to remember this, probably your parents will know.
Over just a few decades, less than a lifetime, China went rushing through industrial revolution, raising extremely modern metropolis in cities formerly pretty run down and primitive, and now the country is activelly participating at the forefront of technology and research in some areas.
Some people might not realize this, but it's because lots of people don't really know China. There are cities there that are basically on par with Japan in terms of technology, public transportation, technology in common spaces and whatnot. There are research areas like biomedicine and genetics that China is arguably ahead. Read some of the recent news... China just launched a communication probe in space to aid a mission that will be launched still this year to explore the dark side of the moon.
It's crazy how fast it has evolved. It almost doesn't make sense when you think about the comparison on how technology evolves versus societies.
But all that has a huge side effect. China did not evolve uniformly, these transformations had and still has huge costs, and of course things are not that simple.
It became a country of enormous contrasts. You have cities that look like Tokyo or modern european capitals, while you have towns in the countryside with people starving and living a life of subsistence. You have billionaires and huge investment groups that are among the richest in the world while you have multitude of workers slaving away to a state they prefer suicide instead of living like that. Most of western societies also have huge wage gaps and inequalities, but it kinda pales in comparison to China when looking at extremes.
Sexism can't be seen and treated in isolation, and people should not have some fantasy that it's gonna be solved anytime soon there because there are major shifts yet to happen before it even starts being addressed.
Remember people, China is a country where not that long ago, baby boys were hugely favored over baby girls. And this is a cultural phenomena that endured over decades.
https://www.theguardian.com/wo...
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/0...
This is a huge problem that cannot be solved in few years time, and it has massive cultural effects. Because it effectively created an artificial distortion... there are way more men than women in China when compared to proportions of other countries.
It's not only China too, it's just something that happens a lot in poor countries or developing countries all over the world.
https://www.npr.org/sections/g...
http://www.ibtimes.com/deadly-...
Even though some of these countries don't necessarily have a majority of people of faith in patriarcal religions and systems, it's just a matter of favoring boys because of base manual labor necessities and a prejudiced view that comes with it. The concept also became ingrained in culture, so up to this decade the tendency still remains.
Th
[1st Daily Reminder] - The Gender Pay Gap is a misnomer and doesn't exist, and the real term is Redistribution Pay Gap where a percentage of salary from irrelevant women is redistributed into the hands of women who matter in our lives: Grandmothers, Mothers, Wives/GFs, Daughters, Sisters even. Therefore it has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with prioritization.
[2nd Daily Reminder] - Feminism is a scam to brainwash you into selling yourself as free labor, slave labor, to random women unrelated to you who are not the grandmother who took care of you, the mother who fed and clothed you, the wife/GF who loves you, the sister who is bonded to you by blood. They are instead crazy bitches who either look down upon you or hate you like most feminists, or parasites looking to suck your limited lifespan and energy to their benefits when you could be doing better things with the limited lifespan you have.
[3rd Daily Reminder] - Western white women should be banned/excluded from Feminism. Western white women are 80% of the economic spending/wasting force, spending/wasting and buying what was ill-gotten from Colonialism and Imperialism. Served on a silver platter to them over the ages by the white men who died to feed into the white female Princess/Queen Complex. The reason the western white female is the face of Feminism is that they were struck with fear once minorities started rising up demanding reparation, and to avoid paying reparation and giving up their western white female wealth and inheritance, they formed Feminism to invent victimhood for themselves through any possible scam, deceit, trick, blackmail, and way that can be conceived which would detract minorities from demanding what they are due. Therefore white whores should be excluded from all matters and opinion-giving on feminism, with only women from the rest of the world qualified.
As usual, SJW-ism has an effect of demonetization and loss of trust from the normal majority consumers, leading to loss.
- FreeBSD suddenly forcibly coercing/demanding from users to become political "ambassadors" by a Code of Conduct copy pasted from some feminist wiki, completely unrelated to the object of the community or their initial interests in becoming part of it. Result? Skilled staff loss.
- SJW publications such as Salon forced into adwall.
- The GNOME Foundation running short on money because they wasted it on a "Outreach Program for Women".
- Ayo.js forked themselves from node.js over a white male. They spent a lot of time on making sure everyone declared their preferred pronouns and setting up a CoC and working on such fine slogans like "Humans before technology" and making a logo.
Almost NO actual programmers joined and after a couple of months this became obvious since the changes brought by the project were comical and completely lacking in any showcase of programming education, and the thing started to lose steam.
So despite all these stupid articles from polygon and gizmodo about the impending doom of node.js, Ayo.js is dead after 5 months.
- Firefox seeing a continual loss of support from its userbase because Mozilla misappropriated donations for Firefox into social justice socio-political bullcrap, because if users wanted to donate into such garbage they would have gone to specialized organizations and not Mozilla where they expect that funding a piece of software funds that and only that.
- GitHub. Go to the explore page and you'll see it overtaken by "a showcase of diverse developers" which is just a list of black women and white knights either doing simple ruby crap or writing ideas in text files on a repo and calling themselves developers.
Form over function, outnumbering of normal developers who do what they do best by idiotic rainbow-goggle SJWs who care more about changing wording to please their little virtue-signaling egos than making anything functional. Their mantra: "I'm a programmer if i feel like it, not if i know how to program."
Examples keep on appearing exponentially with each day.
- Hasbro for example managed to bankrupt the GI Joe brand by employing SJW writers into their comic, ruining the brand value.
- Marvel keeps losing money over the new female "muh womyn power" Captain Marvel, who keeps being rehashed and forced in apparent desperation yet keeps failing and not making returns.
- Disney's Star Wars has now lost trust among prop sellers, a first in the brand's history. Shelves are filled with unsold TLJ "womyn powa" toys which are going to be written off as a major financial loss for both the sellers and Disney. Now sellers have no alternative but to scrutinize all future Disney's Bolshevik marketing projections and force increased costs on Disney as a risk tax. Disney even lost a potential market of 1.3 billion people in China which cites "Baizuo" and "Low IQ (SJW) writing" as critiques.
- Video Game developers appealing to a vocal minority of SJW's who don't even pay for games but rather gather around a single "representative" professional critic/influencer via bubbled social contacts to engage in mob criticism/coercion, who are merely there to support that one career critic against products they don't even care about; resulting in a loss of the core majority of consumers and a net loss in revenue due to appeal to vocal minority over majority.
It's like the religious preachers who exist to preach against products they don't use with fellow church member mobs, yet who are mistaken in ignorance by the object of criticism as consumers.
A reminder also that over 80% of threats and bullying against women on the Internet comes from other women, a simple scroll through social media platforms and shitflinging on their selfies from other women always sufficing as examples. Feminist deceit only shifts the paradigm from the real problem - themselves.
When it only is happening in the Tech Scene, it means that it is not happening anywhere else.
Or has tech Scene added so it would be more likely to being posted on /. ? Because I somehow doubt that the tech scene is in any way different from any other scene.
Writing it to be just about the tech scene removes from the importance of the real issue.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BN0B4mOtwX0
If you look at Gayles videos most comments are about her looks and guys feeling insecure because she a woman and might know better than them. There used to be ALOT of harassing comments on her videos that seemed to have been disappeared. But shes pretty well respected and you can see a whole bunch of noobs disrespecting her. Just think a little about that and you can extrapolate to other qualified women who are getting harassed in industry.
However I think they have other more pressing priorities than coding. Last time I checked men can't have babies and for women who want to figure out if they want kids they have to have everything in place before they're 35 at the very latest before it becomes dangerous for them to give birth.
So I'm gonna suggest that maybe, at the time of peak neuroplasticity when men can take their time to master IT, women have to answer a fundamental question and factor if their career path is compatible with having children. Let's work the numbers. Young woman completes degree by 21-22 years old, get's entry level jobs, has no set backs works for 8 years getting good, in demand OH OH 30. Do you want to continue your IT career or have children? Not impossible, just really really hard work and the women that I have met with both are married to guys in IT who understand how to support them because they are cool women, not demanding entitled brats.
For the women I've met in IT who could get past that and do IT work, they were exceptional, great to work with because they were good at what they do and committed. When gender, sexuality, ethnicity and all the rest of the bullshit falls away you get to meet exceptional people which is the thing I liked about IT for a along time until someone came and told me there was a problem because no one was expecting the nerds to take over the world.
So to those seeking equal representation for women in IT let's see you push equal representation for women in mining, logging, riggers, sewer workers, road workers, roofers, builders or many of the other shitty crappy physically demanding fucked up dangerous jobs that men do and get paid more for because they are jobs that truly SUCK. I'm told women can do anything men can so let's get some equality there too!
Seriously, someone please tell me what female is going to be interested in coding, operating systems and databases when they are 15, 25, 35, 45? Tell me how her peers will treat her? Doesn't mean they can't or won't but let's nip down to Sephora with the latest copy of "Programming Python" and explain to them just how cool it would be to program in python and see how that goes down.
Yep - mod me troll for pointing out reality.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
What "conservative values" are they battling? Sexism isn't a conservative value you twat.
I think that's a large part of government spending in general and not limited to the social justice crowd. Look at the various military contractors or education in general to realize that nearly everyone's got their fingers in the pot. Various other subsidies in the form of tax breaks amount to similarly large figures. Government spending as a % of GDP is slowly creeping up towards levels seen during the second world war.
I grew in USSR and women were not half of the scientists.
In math/physics fields they were in minority, somewhat less so in Chemistry.
USSR's Academy of Science was nearly completely male.
There were plenty of female engineers (about 60% if I recall it right), but it was also because that profession was paid poorly.
That's a completely different phenomena.
But good job twisting "oppression" in. Perhaps you could explain us this graph:
https://youtu.be/EqUtgFBWezE?t...
yada yada. It's the same everywhere. Stop trying to make China out like some evil sexist and misogynistic empire. Do you want to know where the real problem is? Try comparing rape statistics of f.ex. America and China, and then rethink your stupid article.
it's just a matter of favoring boys because of base manual labor necessities
When I was in the Andes, all you saw plowing the fields were women (often with babies on their backs) while all the men were at the nearby bar...
Non-Linux Penguins ?
It's because politicians realized they may be able to secure the votes of the majority (women - who out-number men in the US) by pandering to them. So drop a few billion dollars and try to buy the votes of women by pulling at their emotional strings... Effectively using the very thing they are supposedly "fighting" to garner votes to keep themselves in power.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
And DIAF!
Have you considered maybe you hate women so much because youre a closeted homosexual in a country that encourages three minutes of hate against everyone else? BIGLY urafag bro!
Cmon. Every retarded American knows that!
We need the wood for the fire..
Boohoo. Youre so fucking hard done by. Crt a fucking river. Go on...
Feminism doesn't own the copyright to the concepts of gender or equality, nor does it represent all women with implications of a simpleminded mindhive, therefore criticism of a shitty corrupt brand organization is not the same as criticism against all women, so your mindless blather is invalid and irrelevant.
Nothing but trouble!
Pretext is pretext. Neutralize accordingly.
Recently there was a study that came out that made it not so clear that there's a huge male to female imbalance. https://news.ku.edu/2016/11/22/study-finds-chinas-missing-girls-theory-likely-far-overblown It's said that there could be 25M-30M girls who were not reported to the government. If that's true, than the ratio is closer to 1:1 versus something ridiculously askew. Of course, by not registering these females, many went uneducated, although since this occurred mainly in the rural areas, perhaps not the worse thing that could have happened. Also China is not more than likely to get rid of its 2-child policy as well, and allow people to have as many children as they want, since the 2 child policy didn't change much of anything in terms of creating more pregnancies.
Exactly what female rights are we looking for here. As of now, by law, females in many cities are given longer periods for maternity leave than other Western countries. You also can't fire easily a pregnant female worker, etc. These laws are getting more enforced daily.
Look at MEEEEEE !
I took WIMMINS STUDIES not COMPUTER SCIENCE and NO-ONE WILL HIRE ME !
I'm a VICTIM !!!!!!
Some chi.com women battle sexism and ... some get fucked. Pick yo poison.
Forcing Chinese tech companies to have more diversity would be great news for tech companies in Western countries.
... where those conservative Hollywood people are abusing women.
Oh, wait !! Those guys are campaign sponsors of the Democrats !!
Whoops
So SJWs demanded for the games to be reviewed based on a merit. Then MRA snowflakes went up in a tizzy. After all, they are awfully offended that around 50% of humanity doesn't consider "a lot of big boobs" to be meritorious.
I'm just not overly concerned with a violent 120 lb woman. Yeah, every now and then they get a gun, but not often enough that I worry about it. Even a knife isn't that big a problem. Sure, getting cut sucks, but I can pick up a chair and use my longer arms to greater strength to safely overpower someone a foot shorter and 100lbs lighter.
Now, if _I_ get violent the opposite is not true. Imagine living in a world where 50% of the population is significantly stronger than you and where a lot of them have designs on your body. Now imagine you're well enough educated to know how you would have been treated a scant 50 years ago. Or how you'd be treated right now if you'd been born in Saudi Arabia.
It's a very, very different perspective.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Seriously, the fact there are gender imbalances in employment in IT in every major industrialized country is old news. More interestingly the article seems to want us to unanimously agree that is a bad thing. I personally agree that it is , but I'm also smart enough to know that my belief that women should be treated with equal dignity to men is a direct result of my Judeo-christian value system and that such a system is far from universal.
So, the reason I claim women should be given equal dignity of treatment under the law , is because they are like men, images of God, even that is an argument for equal dignity not necessarily identical treatment. Only in the west have to two become so confused that many people don't understand the difference in definitions.
Can I get a Buddhist, a Hindu a Muslim and an atheist to give me a good reason from their philosophical standpoint that women should be treated with the same dignity and fairness as men.
I know there is no such reason from an atheistic standpoint,because there is no such thing as right and wrong in that philosophy simply those with power , those without and those who complain about it.
I'm pretty sure the Muslim philosophy would not uphold equality of the sexes and various grounds. If I'm wrong please correct me and quote the koran.
What about Buddhism and Hindi? I'm less educated on these. They have female and male Gods correct? but does that say anything at all about the ethics of proper treatment? and if so why isn't it reflected in traditional Hindu and Buddhist society?
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
Empowered women, don't see the problem.
Probably the men were resting at the bar after doing the same job or worse in less time.
It's interesting that you label all the values as "conservative" even though they have no relation to the western notion of such. This shows that "conservative" is purely a label for your out group.
You're battling Chinese values, in China here. I disagree with more than a few of them myself, but let's not pretend there's some over-archiving "conservative" ideal that exists everywhere, except insofar as you wish to replace all ideals with your own.
China does have many aspects of its culture that have yet to be improved, but it seems that regarding women in STEM related fields they actually might be better than the Americans in that regard. Sure, size plays a factor, but that can also apply to instances of sexism in China. In any case, its not like America is much different with regard to female leaders and participation in tech; actually, China might be ahead there too, if some recent news articles are to be believable, and especially if Chinese immigrants are taken into equation.
From what I gather from my Chinese acquaintances, in general STEM fields are seen as appealing educational paths to study in, regardless of gender. Not to mention, many of the math and science teams from schools around here (granted, this is on the West coast) have no shortage of talented female members. In 1922, Bertrand Russell mentioned in a treatise on how the Chinese university seemed to illustrate a much higher degree of equality than would be expected. In the middle of the 20th century it was very much possible that China was much more supportive of women's advancement than the West. I guess the general urge to make progress may have ended up dissolving traditional gender stereotypes along the way in any case. There is not much use insisting on having women perform restrictive gender rolesã when the nation was in very dire need of their services. After all, as en vogue as the unenlightened practice of foot binding was at the time during the days of imperial China, the horse-riding Manchu princesses saw no need for such a crippling impediment to the cultural practices they would engage in.
Of course, that is not to disregard the very real issues of old traditions favoring male heirs and protecting sexual assault perpetrators of status. Also, the governing Party tends to be predominantly Han males, although that is more than just an issue of gender. I don't mean to apologize for China as some sort of beacon of equality or something like that, but for a formerly feudal nation with strict patriarchical institutions I am inclined to think that China has made trememdous progress. (INB4 wumao) The demeaning activities occuring at those companies are reprehensible, but it is likely that those are common occurrences in numerous high school parties in America, where even the idea of women taking forays into supposedly male roles in STEM seems to engender hostility, something which does not seem to be a thing in Chinese society-there's that stereotype of the tiger-parents expecting the thought of not doing so to be simply unthinkable-whether sons, daughters, or everything in between. Alternately, it could be that as China lifts itself up from its developing status, the ideal roles paradoxically may regress, as no longer does necessity render gender preassumptions ridiculous in the circumstances prevailing. From the current rhetoric of the CCP though, it seems that though they promote the adulation of Chinese culture, they still maintain the prior principles of gender equality; the need for skilled citizens in an increasingly globalized world would also seem to render any regression particularly unhelpful to a country's potential. In addition, as with numerous large countries, attitudes vary from region to region; no doubt in some villages, rural prefectures, or fundamentalist-adherent Islamic the expectation is still for women to (there was an article on this topic) marry and play the role of the housewife, but in the developing parts of China it is more likely that a daughter not educated in a prestigious university, or not studied in wulihua, would be an embarassment-likewise for males.
Wow, that got a bit extensive. But I did talk to an Asian friend about this, and they seemed to somewhat concur. China, as with elsewhere, still has much progress to make.
Well, in any case, sorry if this essay got a little off-topic. Although, taken in view of the other discourse on this posting, this probably isn't the most non-germane thing to ramble on about. åsèæäçsé...èï¼
And I believe this part was a comment rather than part of the article, but I remember it stating something about women pretending to be men to get IT jobs.
As opposed to every western society that went from travel by horseback to landing on the moon in a single lifetime?
You mean like Appalachia today? Step outside your bourgeois bubble and visit the poor areas of your own country before throwing stones here, mmmkay?