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In China's Booming Tech Scene, Women Battle Sexism and Conservative Values (reuters.com)
In recent years, even as China's tech industry has boomed, many women say they make far less than their male counterpart for the same job. An anonymous reader shares a report: Reuters spoke to more than a dozen women -- and some men -- in the sector, from entry-level employees to executives, who described an industry where female engineers and coders battle against ingrained biases favoring men. "The traditional view is simply to think that women aren't suitable to be programmers," said Chen Bin, a former Microsoft engineer and the Beijing-based founder of Teach Girls Coding, a campaign to get more women into the sector. "Things are better now than ten years ago, but overall the number of women getting into tech is really small," he said.
China is not the only country where the tech industry has faced heat over a lack of diversity in the workplace. But unlike U.S. peers that have faced legal action over discrimination, including Uber, Alphabet's Google and Microsoft, Chinese technology companies are relatively opaque about gender issues. Most give little data on hiring and none of the industry leaders share the diversity reports that are now customary in the United States, shedding doubt on whether women in Chinese firms hold a comparable number of technical or leadership roles.
China is not the only country where the tech industry has faced heat over a lack of diversity in the workplace. But unlike U.S. peers that have faced legal action over discrimination, including Uber, Alphabet's Google and Microsoft, Chinese technology companies are relatively opaque about gender issues. Most give little data on hiring and none of the industry leaders share the diversity reports that are now customary in the United States, shedding doubt on whether women in Chinese firms hold a comparable number of technical or leadership roles.
Had to hear it for years from this side of the pond, now I have to listen to these fake stories from the other side of the pond?
From my observation, 99% of the time it was due to innate gender differences (guys will geek out over shit much more easily and spend an inordinate amount of time on it while even Asperger girls are more social than their male counterparts). As well as genders valuing different things and taking different career paths and willing to make different sacrifices.
But whatever, I'm sure I will get enough flak for my view here, but the last 20 years of fake Gamergate/Anita Sarkeesian bullshit was enough. Now I have to hear about it from China. Fuck you clickbait editors.
" Remember #gamergate?"
Yes, and I remember it started with a woman who made a game sleeping around with game reviewers, and getting outed for it by none other than one of her exes.
Apparently, you failed to be present at the beginning of the whole thing, so you're brainwashed by the false narratives put forth by Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, and more.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Yes, damn that Gamergate crowd for demanding that games be reviewed on their merit and not on the basis of what sexual favours the developer has offered the reviewer.
And yes, you should be moderated to -1 for your comment that misrepresents Gamergate. You apparently don't even know what it was about and seem to believe it was about Anita Sarkeesian. It's clear that you have preconceived ideas about Gamergate and have decided that gamers are a bunch of misogynists without even investigating what happened.
Obviously you assume that, in any situation involving a woman, the woman is always innocent and the men are always guilty. It is you who is the sexist.
So she is actually saying that women choose not to go into coding. There is no evidence that once they do, they are evaluated or treated unfairly.
Comparing to America? Why? It is supremely idiotic to believe America is some shining beacon of women's rights.
Compared to China, it is. America has its "#metoo" movement, while China has its "#woyeshi" movement. But there is a big difference: The Chinese women that have outed sexual abusers in powerful positions have nearly all done it from OUTSIDE CHINA, where they feel safe from retaliation. It is only after they have permanent residency overseas that they finally feel free to speak out.
Ever heard of false rape accusations where the female accusers almost never get punished?
This seems to be a common misconception.
In a rape case it is often very hard to prove what happened. There is often little or no evidence and witnesses. The standard for criminal convictions is "beyond a reasonable doubt" in most places and it can be quite hard to reach that bar.
But that also means that if the accused is found not guilty, it doesn't necessarily mean that the accuser lied, and even if they did it would have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt for them to be punished. Since most of these cases are just two opposing accounts of events being tested through questioning, it is rare for there to be provable lies that cannot be accounted for as poor memory or stress under questioning.
So the very same rules that are there to protect the accused also protect the accuser, even if the allegation is false.
Prosecutions for fake allegations, "perverting the course of justice" as it is known in the UK, and purgery do happen. But the bar for conviction has to be high, and has to be the same for everyone. Ironically you seem to be feeling the same frustration that rape victims often do, i.e. that it is so hard to prove and get a conviction.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Just stop.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
There is gamergate related harassment today.
Check what happened to Vavra just because he was going to a game conference in Spain.
Harassment is pretty much alive.
Everything you just wrote is a lie.
actually he nailed the whole thing square on the head
Except....
They hate Netanyahu and the former Sharon even more
And they hate YOU for electing people who do their bidding even more than that
Think you are in a war with Islam?
Alll 1.6 billion of them?
No. and pray to your invisible sky daddy that it never comes to that.
Forgive the colloquialism
Word!!!
Erin Pizzey, the founder of the first shelter for the victims of domestic violence, had to run after getting death threats from the feminists for daring to state that violence is not a gender issue and more than 60% of women in her shelters where themselves violent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Now, applying "gamergate was about harassing some random people out there including those who have literally nothing to do with anything, bar being victims" logic, we can conclude, that feminist movement is about harassment.
I was born and raised in USSR, well known for its research institutes. Roughly 50% of folks in science were female, partly because the Soviet government aimed to treat men and women equally, and there was absolutely zero bias again women in lab coats. Except in leadership positions obviously - these rightfully belong to the Party.
This is Anita Sarkeesian endorsing Alex Mandossian. Alex Madnossian is basically a pick-up artist of Internet marketing. His attitude towards his victims is completely fucked up. He is a manipulative scammer and it is not hard to find the parallels in what Sarkeesian has been doing to get her position. That is a very manipulative and dishonest woman. It speaks volumes about you that you defend her.
It's not only about what government does. It's more important how society at large treats gender roles. Government can't change it with a directive. In fact since government draws from people it's as much affected by social biases as everything else. It's just happened that Russians at large were a tiny bit ahead as far as gender equality is concerned. Only it will move back now since Russia is influenced by US and EU too much, with their vision of role of women that can be described as "kinder, küche, kirche".
I don't wanna sound racist or anything, but unfortunately I think China will have a very long way 'till it gets even close to western countries on this matter, which is still not ideal.
Setting US aside, let's consider some european countries and whatnot. There are very few countries that are really getting there, but still not quite.
Currently, China as a society has evolved at unprecedented speeds in comparison to the history of evolution of other societies.
I still remember a time when China was mostly rural, exporting mostly primary resources, and didn't have much in the way of technology to talk about. This was the case not that long ago. If you are too young to remember this, probably your parents will know.
Over just a few decades, less than a lifetime, China went rushing through industrial revolution, raising extremely modern metropolis in cities formerly pretty run down and primitive, and now the country is activelly participating at the forefront of technology and research in some areas.
Some people might not realize this, but it's because lots of people don't really know China. There are cities there that are basically on par with Japan in terms of technology, public transportation, technology in common spaces and whatnot. There are research areas like biomedicine and genetics that China is arguably ahead. Read some of the recent news... China just launched a communication probe in space to aid a mission that will be launched still this year to explore the dark side of the moon.
It's crazy how fast it has evolved. It almost doesn't make sense when you think about the comparison on how technology evolves versus societies.
But all that has a huge side effect. China did not evolve uniformly, these transformations had and still has huge costs, and of course things are not that simple.
It became a country of enormous contrasts. You have cities that look like Tokyo or modern european capitals, while you have towns in the countryside with people starving and living a life of subsistence. You have billionaires and huge investment groups that are among the richest in the world while you have multitude of workers slaving away to a state they prefer suicide instead of living like that. Most of western societies also have huge wage gaps and inequalities, but it kinda pales in comparison to China when looking at extremes.
Sexism can't be seen and treated in isolation, and people should not have some fantasy that it's gonna be solved anytime soon there because there are major shifts yet to happen before it even starts being addressed.
Remember people, China is a country where not that long ago, baby boys were hugely favored over baby girls. And this is a cultural phenomena that endured over decades.
https://www.theguardian.com/wo...
https://www.nytimes.com/2009/0...
This is a huge problem that cannot be solved in few years time, and it has massive cultural effects. Because it effectively created an artificial distortion... there are way more men than women in China when compared to proportions of other countries.
It's not only China too, it's just something that happens a lot in poor countries or developing countries all over the world.
https://www.npr.org/sections/g...
http://www.ibtimes.com/deadly-...
Even though some of these countries don't necessarily have a majority of people of faith in patriarcal religions and systems, it's just a matter of favoring boys because of base manual labor necessities and a prejudiced view that comes with it. The concept also became ingrained in culture, so up to this decade the tendency still remains.
Th
Finland literally just had a case where man sat in prison for nine months for rape before his accuser according to the biggest newspaper in the country "found God and confessed to the police that she lied about it".
He's still fighting in court to get his criminal record expunged of this. She was just given a small fine, told to return some of the money he had to pay her for her suffering and a suspended sentence with some community service on top of it. She won't spend a day in jail over this.
https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-...
Welcome to progressive concept of "equality" of sexes, where there's the arbeit macht frei men and ubermensch women.
As usual, SJW-ism has an effect of demonetization and loss of trust from the normal majority consumers, leading to loss.
- FreeBSD suddenly forcibly coercing/demanding from users to become political "ambassadors" by a Code of Conduct copy pasted from some feminist wiki, completely unrelated to the object of the community or their initial interests in becoming part of it. Result? Skilled staff loss.
- SJW publications such as Salon forced into adwall.
- The GNOME Foundation running short on money because they wasted it on a "Outreach Program for Women".
- Ayo.js forked themselves from node.js over a white male. They spent a lot of time on making sure everyone declared their preferred pronouns and setting up a CoC and working on such fine slogans like "Humans before technology" and making a logo.
Almost NO actual programmers joined and after a couple of months this became obvious since the changes brought by the project were comical and completely lacking in any showcase of programming education, and the thing started to lose steam.
So despite all these stupid articles from polygon and gizmodo about the impending doom of node.js, Ayo.js is dead after 5 months.
- Firefox seeing a continual loss of support from its userbase because Mozilla misappropriated donations for Firefox into social justice socio-political bullcrap, because if users wanted to donate into such garbage they would have gone to specialized organizations and not Mozilla where they expect that funding a piece of software funds that and only that.
- GitHub. Go to the explore page and you'll see it overtaken by "a showcase of diverse developers" which is just a list of black women and white knights either doing simple ruby crap or writing ideas in text files on a repo and calling themselves developers.
Form over function, outnumbering of normal developers who do what they do best by idiotic rainbow-goggle SJWs who care more about changing wording to please their little virtue-signaling egos than making anything functional. Their mantra: "I'm a programmer if i feel like it, not if i know how to program."
Examples keep on appearing exponentially with each day.
- Hasbro for example managed to bankrupt the GI Joe brand by employing SJW writers into their comic, ruining the brand value.
- Marvel keeps losing money over the new female "muh womyn power" Captain Marvel, who keeps being rehashed and forced in apparent desperation yet keeps failing and not making returns.
- Disney's Star Wars has now lost trust among prop sellers, a first in the brand's history. Shelves are filled with unsold TLJ "womyn powa" toys which are going to be written off as a major financial loss for both the sellers and Disney. Now sellers have no alternative but to scrutinize all future Disney's Bolshevik marketing projections and force increased costs on Disney as a risk tax. Disney even lost a potential market of 1.3 billion people in China which cites "Baizuo" and "Low IQ (SJW) writing" as critiques.
- Video Game developers appealing to a vocal minority of SJW's who don't even pay for games but rather gather around a single "representative" professional critic/influencer via bubbled social contacts to engage in mob criticism/coercion, who are merely there to support that one career critic against products they don't even care about; resulting in a loss of the core majority of consumers and a net loss in revenue due to appeal to vocal minority over majority.
It's like the religious preachers who exist to preach against products they don't use with fellow church member mobs, yet who are mistaken in ignorance by the object of criticism as consumers.
A reminder also that over 80% of threats and bullying against women on the Internet comes from other women, a simple scroll through social media platforms and shitflinging on their selfies from other women always sufficing as examples. Feminist deceit only shifts the paradigm from the real problem - themselves.
Ironically you seem to be feeling the same frustration that rape victims often do, i.e. that it is so hard to prove and get a conviction.
Good observation.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
When it only is happening in the Tech Scene, it means that it is not happening anywhere else.
Or has tech Scene added so it would be more likely to being posted on /. ? Because I somehow doubt that the tech scene is in any way different from any other scene.
Writing it to be just about the tech scene removes from the importance of the real issue.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
But studies show that on many occasions women don't know what they are talking about.
Should we consider the many men who say many thing that are nothing but bullshit?
And the bulls who say nothing but manshit.
What "conservative values" are they battling? Sexism isn't a conservative value you twat.
I work in a field of science in which I often cite Russian researchers from the Soviet era. Of those Soviet researchers whose sex I know, exactly 100% are male.
My observation may differ from yours because if I'm citing someone 40+ years later, they're bound to be one of the stars in their field - whereas you may have encountered a more general cross-section of people working in science.
I have lived and worked in China for a number of years, though I am not Chinese. At two large multi-nationals (who ought to know better) I saw numerous instances where positions earmarked for women were filled with young/single/attractive candidates rather than even take interviews from women who appeared to have the most relevant resumes. And that was trivial to pull off since most of the candidates (men and women) put their pictures, age, and marital status on their resume since that is the norm in China.
Why does their modding down have to be from gamergaters? I was going to mod the above post down despite having absolutly no love for those trolls as the post is just blatant flamebait or perhaps off topic. While there is still more to be done towards gender equality in the US, we're not that bad, especially when compared to the vast majority of Asian nations.
More importantly though, it just makes sense to compare the US and China on such things. China is the emerging super power and the US is the established one. It makes for a compelling comparison. Comparing China to Iceland (top ranked by the UN for gender equality) isn't going to generate the interest that a comparison to the US will.
The article is a comparison between super powers on gender equality
Maybe think outside the PC box sometimes.
I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
> "Online mobs regularly go after any woman who dares stand up for herself"
Online mobs regularly go after people who dare stand up for themselves.
FTFY.
Do you honestly believe no one attacks men on the internet? If you ignore attacks on men then, yes, women get attacked more, but why ignore attacks on men? Is it okay to attack men?
According to your own link she had received a similar jail sentence to the accused, and much larger fines. Since the accused's conviction is still pending revocation then presumably this is not the end of the compensation he will receive (I don't know about Finland but in the UK there is compensation for wrongful imprisonment, loss of earnings, consequential losses etc. from the state).
Presumably there will also be a review to determine what went wrong and to prevent it happening again. Those involved may be sanctioned. This is far from over.
Look, mistakes are going to be made in any criminal justice system. It's impossible to have a 100% perfect system. A single anecdote is worthless though, what we need to see is data showing how often this happens. It's also important to look at how the situation is corrected, so it might be useful to know how quickly his conviction will be removed and what the total amount of compensation will be.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I'd like to remind everyone that the claim about sexual favours in exchange for positive reviews or coverage is a long debunked lie.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I was born and raised in USSR, well known for its research institutes. Roughly 50% of folks in science were female, partly because the Soviet government aimed to treat men and women equally, and there was absolutely zero bias again women in lab coats. Except in leadership positions obviously - these rightfully belong to the Party.
Russia (and Europe in General) haven't had a systemic enforcement of gender roles for a long time now (that is a nice way of saying, "haven't had systemic sexism"). Even in more capitalist parts of Europe there are few, if any systemic barriers for women in science and tech. This isn't the case in most of Asia where traditional gender roles are still a thing.
I.E. having a female leader is seen as something very worrying to many Americans. For those of us in the UK, having Theresa May as PM is as normal as David Cameron or Tony Blair... OK I think she's bloody useless, but that's because she's spineless, indecisive and letting rebels run the party, not because she's female.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Comparing to America? Why? It is supremely idiotic to believe America is some shining beacon of women's rights.
Have you been to the rest of the world?
Online mobs regularly go after any woman who dares stand up for herself. Hate speech and death threats are common. Remember #gamergate?
...apparently not.
Ezekiel 23:20
It turned out that the original shitstorm was exactly that, a shitstorm. But perhaps not too surprisingly, the issue of substandard journalism reappeared in other cases - not too surprisingly because the so-called "game journalists" unsurprisingly don't really have WaPo or NYT-level credentials, nor skills, nor level of integrity.
Ezekiel 23:20
Where is the line between fabricated sexism and actual sexism?
Fabricated sexism: Women complaining about being paid less for 35 hours than men get paid for 48 hours.
Actual sexism: Paying men the same for 48 hours as women get paid for 35 hours.
I think that's a large part of government spending in general and not limited to the social justice crowd. Look at the various military contractors or education in general to realize that nearly everyone's got their fingers in the pot. Various other subsidies in the form of tax breaks amount to similarly large figures. Government spending as a % of GDP is slowly creeping up towards levels seen during the second world war.
Not that you really need to debunk this. It's simply irrelevant. People like Sarkesian simply engage in selective outrage. They see women being treated the same as men and screech discrimination. Her own complaints of games are a classic example of this.
She reviews a murder simulator and screeches "women are being abused".
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
> Girlfriend, if you haven't seen the evidence, you've had your hands placed firmly over your eyes the entire time.
People that defy Sturgeon's law move up quickly and get paid well. It doesn't matter what they have between their legs. The professional offended class has just convinced one group of losers that they have something besides themselves to blame.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
This seems to be a common misconception.
In a rape case it is often very hard to prove what happened. There is often little or no evidence and witnesses. The standard for criminal convictions is "beyond a reasonable doubt" in most places and it can be quite hard to reach that bar.
No, that's not the reason false rape accusers get away with it at all, as could be easily demonstrated:
Girl made false accusation of rape after her ex-boyfriend rejected her
As far as punishment goes, there is a which is, of course, overlooked, for reasons not that widely known and even contrary to the mainstream narrative.
It's just not perceived as such a big problem (as made up statements about such false accusations "rarely happening" were repeated so many times, people started to believe it was true).
Presumably there will also be a review to determine what went wrong and to prevent it happening again.
What is the point of pushing the narrative that is demonstrably false? Jesus:
The woman who made false rape allegations against a Texas DPS trooper will not face any additional charges.
Girl made false accusation of rape after her ex-boyfriend rejected her
Woman Who Lied to Police About 3 Black Men Raping and Kidnapping Her Faces Zero Years in Prison
Woman who made false rape complaint receives suspended sentence
I grew in USSR and women were not half of the scientists.
In math/physics fields they were in minority, somewhat less so in Chemistry.
USSR's Academy of Science was nearly completely male.
There were plenty of female engineers (about 60% if I recall it right), but it was also because that profession was paid poorly.
That's a completely different phenomena.
But good job twisting "oppression" in. Perhaps you could explain us this graph:
https://youtu.be/EqUtgFBWezE?t...
it's just a matter of favoring boys because of base manual labor necessities
When I was in the Andes, all you saw plowing the fields were women (often with babies on their backs) while all the men were at the nearby bar...
Non-Linux Penguins ?
So - guilty, even if not found guilty. And of course the ruined reputation and life because of it.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Try to be a conservative on most of the Internet, or nearly any university. And male. And white. Strike out before even opening your mouth. It's perfectly OK to attack anyone today, provided they are not a perceived minority (regardless of actual demographic representation), and the more "minority" they are, the more they are to be protected from attacks - and the freer they are to attack others.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
It's because politicians realized they may be able to secure the votes of the majority (women - who out-number men in the US) by pandering to them. So drop a few billion dollars and try to buy the votes of women by pulling at their emotional strings... Effectively using the very thing they are supposedly "fighting" to garner votes to keep themselves in power.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Also men make up 92% of workplace deaths. Let's pay equally when everyone dies equally.
None of these stories are about Finland, and all of them actually support my point!
Texas story: Allegation made, no actual complaint or charges, at most it's a civil matter (slander) so why would there be criminal charges? Sounds like you want them to criminalize speech!
Ex-boyfriend: She WAS charged and admitted it (i.e. convicted)! She admitted wasting police time. That's a criminal offence. In fact the last line of the article notes that she is awaiting sentencing for her crime. You are proving that the system works!
3 black guys: She took a plea deal. As the article notes she plead guilty to "two third-degree felony counts of tampering with physical evidence, a third-degree felony count of tampering with a government record and a state-jail felony count of tampering with a government record". As well as a criminal record, she got 8 years probation, $10,000 in fines and 160 hours community service. https://www.dallasnews.com/new...
Israel: Again, suspended sentence.
What is your point here, that the punishment isn't harsh enough?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
If you thought she was "screeching" in her videos, you should check your equipment because it's fucked.
Anyway, her actual complaint about Hitman and other "murder simulators" like Far Cry wasn't really anything to do with women being abused. In fact both of those videos were about women being used as background decoration and for cheap thrills, not the actual violence.
She doesn't really mind the violence it seems. Some of the games she points to as examples of good female characters are violent, and I recall she said once that female characters in fighting games are not an issue per-se because they have agency and fight for themselves rather than being damseled etc.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I put my photo on my resume.
Are you American? If so, at many companies your resume will be automatically discarded.
Forcing Chinese tech companies to have more diversity would be great news for tech companies in Western countries.
... where those conservative Hollywood people are abusing women.
Oh, wait !! Those guys are campaign sponsors of the Democrats !!
Whoops
Yes, damn that Gamergate crowd for demanding that games be reviewed on their merit and not on the basis of what sexual favours the developer has offered the reviewer.
Wow the gamergate crowd is still sore. I guess that's why you have nothing to od but sit around in your mother's basements stewing over threads and spending all your modpoints shouting people down.
so tell me, Mr Ac and the cowardly mods who omdded this up where is the slightest shred of evidence that Anita Sareesian (who I singled out in my post) gave any sexual favours to anyone?
And yes, you should be moderated to -1 for your comment that misrepresents Gamergate.
Ah yes the old -1 truth mod. I know it well.
You apparently don't even know what it was about and seem to believe it was about Anita Sarkeesian. It's clear that you have preconceived ideas about Gamergate and have decided that gamers are a bunch of misogynists without even investigating what happened.
I watched the whole thing unfold at the time. they are a bunch of rampant myisogynists.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
No, REAL sexism is whining that women are actually standing for their rights.
Anyway, her actual complaint...
The actual complaint was that gamers weren't willing to provide and support her SJW platform. Many, myself included, decided that her complaints have nothing to do with gaming, and we are here to just enjoy video games.
So SJWs demanded for the games to be reviewed based on a merit. Then MRA snowflakes went up in a tizzy. After all, they are awfully offended that around 50% of humanity doesn't consider "a lot of big boobs" to be meritorious.
Have you actually seen the videos? Nothing you say seems to have anything relating to her work.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I'm just not overly concerned with a violent 120 lb woman. Yeah, every now and then they get a gun, but not often enough that I worry about it. Even a knife isn't that big a problem. Sure, getting cut sucks, but I can pick up a chair and use my longer arms to greater strength to safely overpower someone a foot shorter and 100lbs lighter.
Now, if _I_ get violent the opposite is not true. Imagine living in a world where 50% of the population is significantly stronger than you and where a lot of them have designs on your body. Now imagine you're well enough educated to know how you would have been treated a scant 50 years ago. Or how you'd be treated right now if you'd been born in Saudi Arabia.
It's a very, very different perspective.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
In biology and chemistry women were over-represented in Russia. My mother is a chemical engineer and her graduation photo had something like 90% of female graduates. Physics was more male-oriented.
We will never agree on this, and I see no point rehashing arguments. Everything there is to say was said many times.
At this point it is clear that SJWs were less than zero effective with GG, not only did they not reach any of the stated goals, Sarkesian episode and GG trained gamers to widely distrust SJWs in any context. GG was Pyrrhic victory for SJW and likely marks beginning of the end. I am proud of my role in it, however small and insignificant it was.
Seriously, the fact there are gender imbalances in employment in IT in every major industrialized country is old news. More interestingly the article seems to want us to unanimously agree that is a bad thing. I personally agree that it is , but I'm also smart enough to know that my belief that women should be treated with equal dignity to men is a direct result of my Judeo-christian value system and that such a system is far from universal.
So, the reason I claim women should be given equal dignity of treatment under the law , is because they are like men, images of God, even that is an argument for equal dignity not necessarily identical treatment. Only in the west have to two become so confused that many people don't understand the difference in definitions.
Can I get a Buddhist, a Hindu a Muslim and an atheist to give me a good reason from their philosophical standpoint that women should be treated with the same dignity and fairness as men.
I know there is no such reason from an atheistic standpoint,because there is no such thing as right and wrong in that philosophy simply those with power , those without and those who complain about it.
I'm pretty sure the Muslim philosophy would not uphold equality of the sexes and various grounds. If I'm wrong please correct me and quote the koran.
What about Buddhism and Hindi? I'm less educated on these. They have female and male Gods correct? but does that say anything at all about the ethics of proper treatment? and if so why isn't it reflected in traditional Hindu and Buddhist society?
âoeTolerance applies only to persons, but never to truth. Intolerance applies only to truth, but never to persons.
In spite of all that you wrote, there are actual documented cases where rape accusations are determined to be 100% false, and yet the false accuser faces no charges.
Funny how you totally sidestepped that contingency.
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
I am, but I wouldn't even consider working at a Chinese company anyway.
No, I mean many American companies will auto-reject any resume with a photo. Hiring someone with a photo on their resume leaves them open to charges of bias.
Even NOT hiring someone with a photo is bad because the applicant can sue and claim bias, since you saw their race and age. But if you have an auto-reject policy, you avoid that trap.
If you are an American applying at American companies, including a photo on your resume is a bad idea.
What rights? Last I checked getting a paycheck is not a right. You want equal pay? Ask or sue.
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Actually, equal paycheck IS a right in the US. Learn your civics.
What are you talking about? There are female road workers and landscapers and other shit job do-ers where I live. Where do YOU live that you don't see them?
I live on Earth and your statement is not reflected in the available data.
That's exactly what those "girls who code" initiatives are supposed to address and part of why the gender gap is a problem in the first place - if programming isn't cool to women, and there are women who would code if not for society telling them at a vulnerable age that they shouldn't code, don't you think that's a problem?
Where is the evidence for people telling girls they shouldn't code? What I am saying is there is more evidence available that women don't code because they have other priorities. If they are not interested in coding why should society try to mold them into something they just aren't interested in doing.
The entire rationale of this argument presumes some campaign to stop women coding when in reality anti-discrimination laws have been in place for decades that allows women to do pretty much anything they put their mind to. What we are seeing is people jumping up and down pointing fingers at men because they think they should be accommodated instead of proving themselves. Last I check the men in information technology aren't involved in hiring decisions and HR is mostly occupied by women and I remember one HR women specifically *excluding* other women from employment opportunities when they were qualified.
I also remember one young lady I worked with who was talented and had the capacity to work well with the team, have a campaign run on her by three other "ladies" to make her life a misery while she worked there because she also happened to be attractive. The only place this is negated is in larger shops where anti-discrimination weed out such machinations. Women being mean to other women is a stereotype in our culture - so I guess that's men's fault too.
A more constructive question to ask would be What is it about Information Technology that women *are* interested in and what is stopping them from participating?. What we see is finger pointing, no objectivity, no evidence and a lack of any willingness to seek that and evaluate it whilst ignoring the very real world priorities and decisions women have to make. In the meantime those of us who get sick of working in a sausage shop all the time get fingers pointed at them after observing what has been going on.
So no, as a man, I won't accept the blame. I worked my ass off to be in IT and I get sick of being asked to just wait by the finish line and let people less capable of running the race go by. No I don't see it as a problem I see it as a nuanced issue that a lot of selfish entitled people think that someone should just come along and make a space for them when all the sane women who do the work and put in the time to be good at IT receive social stigma for doing so from other women for the same reasons men do.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
How do you know you are better than Asia? Assumption? Based on what?
A data point to consider. The popular view in Europe, both among the popolous and the powers that be is that Eastern European contries are not as progressive as the West, including the whole sex equality thing....
It's not true thought. Yes you have my word for it, so whatever but think - people in Europe are that ignorant about their neighbors. Assumptions about Asia? Ha!
"Actual documented cases", it's just that you can't actually cite of any of them.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
China does have many aspects of its culture that have yet to be improved, but it seems that regarding women in STEM related fields they actually might be better than the Americans in that regard. Sure, size plays a factor, but that can also apply to instances of sexism in China. In any case, its not like America is much different with regard to female leaders and participation in tech; actually, China might be ahead there too, if some recent news articles are to be believable, and especially if Chinese immigrants are taken into equation.
From what I gather from my Chinese acquaintances, in general STEM fields are seen as appealing educational paths to study in, regardless of gender. Not to mention, many of the math and science teams from schools around here (granted, this is on the West coast) have no shortage of talented female members. In 1922, Bertrand Russell mentioned in a treatise on how the Chinese university seemed to illustrate a much higher degree of equality than would be expected. In the middle of the 20th century it was very much possible that China was much more supportive of women's advancement than the West. I guess the general urge to make progress may have ended up dissolving traditional gender stereotypes along the way in any case. There is not much use insisting on having women perform restrictive gender rolesã when the nation was in very dire need of their services. After all, as en vogue as the unenlightened practice of foot binding was at the time during the days of imperial China, the horse-riding Manchu princesses saw no need for such a crippling impediment to the cultural practices they would engage in.
Of course, that is not to disregard the very real issues of old traditions favoring male heirs and protecting sexual assault perpetrators of status. Also, the governing Party tends to be predominantly Han males, although that is more than just an issue of gender. I don't mean to apologize for China as some sort of beacon of equality or something like that, but for a formerly feudal nation with strict patriarchical institutions I am inclined to think that China has made trememdous progress. (INB4 wumao) The demeaning activities occuring at those companies are reprehensible, but it is likely that those are common occurrences in numerous high school parties in America, where even the idea of women taking forays into supposedly male roles in STEM seems to engender hostility, something which does not seem to be a thing in Chinese society-there's that stereotype of the tiger-parents expecting the thought of not doing so to be simply unthinkable-whether sons, daughters, or everything in between. Alternately, it could be that as China lifts itself up from its developing status, the ideal roles paradoxically may regress, as no longer does necessity render gender preassumptions ridiculous in the circumstances prevailing. From the current rhetoric of the CCP though, it seems that though they promote the adulation of Chinese culture, they still maintain the prior principles of gender equality; the need for skilled citizens in an increasingly globalized world would also seem to render any regression particularly unhelpful to a country's potential. In addition, as with numerous large countries, attitudes vary from region to region; no doubt in some villages, rural prefectures, or fundamentalist-adherent Islamic the expectation is still for women to (there was an article on this topic) marry and play the role of the housewife, but in the developing parts of China it is more likely that a daughter not educated in a prestigious university, or not studied in wulihua, would be an embarassment-likewise for males.
Wow, that got a bit extensive. But I did talk to an Asian friend about this, and they seemed to somewhat concur. China, as with elsewhere, still has much progress to make.
Well, in any case, sorry if this essay got a little off-topic. Although, taken in view of the other discourse on this posting, this probably isn't the most non-germane thing to ramble on about. åsèæäçsé...èï¼
And I believe this part was a comment rather than part of the article, but I remember it stating something about women pretending to be men to get IT jobs.
SJW won in a sense that they set mainstream acceptance of gaming community back decades, and that they successfully smeared GG supporters and gaming in general as sexist, vile, violent and so on.
To general population, it is less shocking to find out that someone into BSM then into online gaming. The only reason you can even speak about gaming is because people think you play Candy Crush or Farmville, and that is gaming you are talking about.
My boss makes more than me, she thinks otherwise.
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As opposed to every western society that went from travel by horseback to landing on the moon in a single lifetime?
You mean like Appalachia today? Step outside your bourgeois bubble and visit the poor areas of your own country before throwing stones here, mmmkay?
Learn your civics. Pay discrimination by sex is prohibited by law. It doesn't mandate the equal pay for everyone.
In all those cases there was not enough evidence to prove that they lied beyond a reasonable doubt. What part of that don't you understand?
Also note how the accusers were sued in two of those cases and lost, owning hundreds of thousands of dollars. In the Duke case the accused each got $20M. It really doesn't sound like there were no consequences or reparations.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
You know, you could skip the gaslighting and go with "ok, false accusations are rare but those women lied and should serve just as much prison time as the innocent men faced". There was more than enough evidence to convict in every case I just mentioned if it went to trial. But prosecutors never take these cases to court, which is the problem. You're arguing like an Obamabot saying the reason he didn't criminally prosecute bank fraud is because the cases couldn't be won. Uh, you need to actually bring them to court and try to win before you can make that argument - otherwise you're engaging in circular reasoning.
I said criminal prosecutions but good college try. I even stated that the money from Gibson was just paying back a settlement she won from the school. You think having to pay back ill gotten money is equivalent to 5 years of Brian Bank's life?
Not from the false accuser, and not awards won by state prosecutors. Nice try x2.
So to get back to the big question - can you name a single instance of a false accuser facing equivalent prison time to the man she sent to prison?
That's a load of shit. Even if your 35 vs 48 hours numbers aren't pulled out of your ass (and I think they are), it's still the case that people putting in way too many hours tend to burn out and not achieve more (in terms of actual meaningful output, even if they send lots of "look how busy I am" emails). People who stick to sensible working hours and maintain some work-life balance are more likely to calmly and thoughtfully look at the big picture before making decisions, compared to burnt-out stressheads.
One more reason to stick to the porn and be happy. ;)
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti
But isn't that precisely what people [women/men] prefer? In my experience, women do like biology, and men like physics more. Simple. It escapes me that this is an issue at all. Should we *force* people into vocations they don't like, now? This whole gender thing about jobs is freaking embarrassing. People do what they like. If women prefer something they should do it. If men prefer something they should do it. Why so much philosophizing about nothing? It's the people themselves who should decide what they want to do with their lives. Simple. Some women want to drive a truck. Some men want to be strippers. Hell, why not? You want to deprive them of their choice?
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti
Yet in the US women were severely underrepresented in chemistry. This kinda tells me that most of "women like" is simply a result of societal pressure.
Discrimination is indeed illegal, that does not mean you have the right to an equal paycheck though.
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"How do you know you are better than Asia?"
Because I looked it up rather than make an assumption as you're doing here.
https://www.undispatch.com/her...
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