Slashdot Mirror


In China's Booming Tech Scene, Women Battle Sexism and Conservative Values (reuters.com)

In recent years, even as China's tech industry has boomed, many women say they make far less than their male counterpart for the same job. An anonymous reader shares a report: Reuters spoke to more than a dozen women -- and some men -- in the sector, from entry-level employees to executives, who described an industry where female engineers and coders battle against ingrained biases favoring men. "The traditional view is simply to think that women aren't suitable to be programmers," said Chen Bin, a former Microsoft engineer and the Beijing-based founder of Teach Girls Coding, a campaign to get more women into the sector. "Things are better now than ten years ago, but overall the number of women getting into tech is really small," he said.

China is not the only country where the tech industry has faced heat over a lack of diversity in the workplace. But unlike U.S. peers that have faced legal action over discrimination, including Uber, Alphabet's Google and Microsoft, Chinese technology companies are relatively opaque about gender issues. Most give little data on hiring and none of the industry leaders share the diversity reports that are now customary in the United States, shedding doubt on whether women in Chinese firms hold a comparable number of technical or leadership roles.

9 of 225 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Why the comparison? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes, damn that Gamergate crowd for demanding that games be reviewed on their merit and not on the basis of what sexual favours the developer has offered the reviewer.

    And yes, you should be moderated to -1 for your comment that misrepresents Gamergate. You apparently don't even know what it was about and seem to believe it was about Anita Sarkeesian. It's clear that you have preconceived ideas about Gamergate and have decided that gamers are a bunch of misogynists without even investigating what happened.

    Obviously you assume that, in any situation involving a woman, the woman is always innocent and the men are always guilty. It is you who is the sexist.

  2. Re:Why the comparison? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

    Comparing to America? Why? It is supremely idiotic to believe America is some shining beacon of women's rights.

    Compared to China, it is. America has its "#metoo" movement, while China has its "#woyeshi" movement. But there is a big difference: The Chinese women that have outed sexual abusers in powerful positions have nearly all done it from OUTSIDE CHINA, where they feel safe from retaliation. It is only after they have permanent residency overseas that they finally feel free to speak out.

  3. Re:Why the comparison? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Informative

    Ever heard of false rape accusations where the female accusers almost never get punished?

    This seems to be a common misconception.

    In a rape case it is often very hard to prove what happened. There is often little or no evidence and witnesses. The standard for criminal convictions is "beyond a reasonable doubt" in most places and it can be quite hard to reach that bar.

    But that also means that if the accused is found not guilty, it doesn't necessarily mean that the accuser lied, and even if they did it would have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt for them to be punished. Since most of these cases are just two opposing accounts of events being tested through questioning, it is rare for there to be provable lies that cannot be accounted for as poor memory or stress under questioning.

    So the very same rules that are there to protect the accused also protect the accuser, even if the allegation is false.

    Prosecutions for fake allegations, "perverting the course of justice" as it is known in the UK, and purgery do happen. But the bar for conviction has to be high, and has to be the same for everyone. Ironically you seem to be feeling the same frustration that rape victims often do, i.e. that it is so hard to prove and get a conviction.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  4. Re:Why the comparison? by Kartu · · Score: 5, Informative

    Erin Pizzey, the founder of the first shelter for the victims of domestic violence, had to run after getting death threats from the feminists for daring to state that violence is not a gender issue and more than 60% of women in her shelters where themselves violent.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    Now, applying "gamergate was about harassing some random people out there including those who have literally nothing to do with anything, bar being victims" logic, we can conclude, that feminist movement is about harassment.

  5. Re:Why the comparison? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is Anita Sarkeesian endorsing Alex Mandossian. Alex Madnossian is basically a pick-up artist of Internet marketing. His attitude towards his victims is completely fucked up. He is a manipulative scammer and it is not hard to find the parallels in what Sarkeesian has been doing to get her position. That is a very manipulative and dishonest woman. It speaks volumes about you that you defend her.

  6. Re:evidence? by Cipheron · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Actually Gender equal nations see bigger STEM gender gaps than sexist hellholes do.

    e.g. in nations which don't provide many social avenues or financial support, such as *Algeria* you have near-equality in STEM graduates (41% female). That drops off a lot in nations with good social welfare systems. *Because* women have more choice. More women doing STEM classes isn't necessarily a sign that the society is providing well for women in general. Mainly because things like Engineering and Computer Science aren't just a course you do, they're a lifelong commitment to keeping your skills up to date. e.g. a Comp Sci person is going to be dedicating unpaid hours FOR LIFE to keep up. Women generally want more work/life balance than that allows. e.g. doing a job where you can't "clock out" and have to keep studying after-hours for your whole life, just to tread water, isn't a great idea if you plan to start a family later. Computer Science is the kind of thing that completely dominates your life if you choose it as a career path, you have to be 100% focused on that or you fall behind. e.g. you have to be near-autistic about it to even think about starting. Women are just more *balanced* than men and less of them are one-track obsessive idiots, so less women go into obsessive niche careers. That's not a "problem" for women.

  7. China will have a very long way on this matter... by XSportSeeker · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't wanna sound racist or anything, but unfortunately I think China will have a very long way 'till it gets even close to western countries on this matter, which is still not ideal.
    Setting US aside, let's consider some european countries and whatnot. There are very few countries that are really getting there, but still not quite.

    Currently, China as a society has evolved at unprecedented speeds in comparison to the history of evolution of other societies.

    I still remember a time when China was mostly rural, exporting mostly primary resources, and didn't have much in the way of technology to talk about. This was the case not that long ago. If you are too young to remember this, probably your parents will know.
    Over just a few decades, less than a lifetime, China went rushing through industrial revolution, raising extremely modern metropolis in cities formerly pretty run down and primitive, and now the country is activelly participating at the forefront of technology and research in some areas.

    Some people might not realize this, but it's because lots of people don't really know China. There are cities there that are basically on par with Japan in terms of technology, public transportation, technology in common spaces and whatnot. There are research areas like biomedicine and genetics that China is arguably ahead. Read some of the recent news... China just launched a communication probe in space to aid a mission that will be launched still this year to explore the dark side of the moon.

    It's crazy how fast it has evolved. It almost doesn't make sense when you think about the comparison on how technology evolves versus societies.

    But all that has a huge side effect. China did not evolve uniformly, these transformations had and still has huge costs, and of course things are not that simple.
    It became a country of enormous contrasts. You have cities that look like Tokyo or modern european capitals, while you have towns in the countryside with people starving and living a life of subsistence. You have billionaires and huge investment groups that are among the richest in the world while you have multitude of workers slaving away to a state they prefer suicide instead of living like that. Most of western societies also have huge wage gaps and inequalities, but it kinda pales in comparison to China when looking at extremes.

    Sexism can't be seen and treated in isolation, and people should not have some fantasy that it's gonna be solved anytime soon there because there are major shifts yet to happen before it even starts being addressed.

    Remember people, China is a country where not that long ago, baby boys were hugely favored over baby girls. And this is a cultural phenomena that endured over decades.
    https://www.theguardian.com/wo...
    https://www.nytimes.com/2009/0...
    This is a huge problem that cannot be solved in few years time, and it has massive cultural effects. Because it effectively created an artificial distortion... there are way more men than women in China when compared to proportions of other countries.
    It's not only China too, it's just something that happens a lot in poor countries or developing countries all over the world.
    https://www.npr.org/sections/g...
    http://www.ibtimes.com/deadly-...
    Even though some of these countries don't necessarily have a majority of people of faith in patriarcal religions and systems, it's just a matter of favoring boys because of base manual labor necessities and a prejudiced view that comes with it. The concept also became ingrained in culture, so up to this decade the tendency still remains.

    Th

  8. Re:Why the comparison? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Finland literally just had a case where man sat in prison for nine months for rape before his accuser according to the biggest newspaper in the country "found God and confessed to the police that she lied about it".

    He's still fighting in court to get his criminal record expunged of this. She was just given a small fine, told to return some of the money he had to pay her for her suffering and a suspended sentence with some community service on top of it. She won't spend a day in jail over this.

    https://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/art-...

    Welcome to progressive concept of "equality" of sexes, where there's the arbeit macht frei men and ubermensch women.