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Kickstarter Bets On 'Wired' Arduino-Compatible IoT Platform
L-One-L-One writes: Most IoT home projects today are based on Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Zigbee, and friends. But this is not always the ideal solution: you end up swapping batteries frequently, which becomes annoying quite quickly. You also have to deal with signal strength issues and interferences. To address this problem, a new Kickstarter campaign called NoCAN is proposing an Arduino-compatible internet-of-things platform based on wired connections that combine networking and power in one cable. The platform uses a set of cheap Arduino-compatible nodes controlled through a Raspberry Pi. The network uses CAN-bus and offers a publish/subscribe mechanism like MQTT and over-the-network firmware updates. It can also be controlled by a smartphone or tablet. Even with such features, can it succeed in going against the all-wireless trend? We'll know in a few weeks.
Some Kickstarter campaign marketing company!
question: why is this company seeking funding based exclusively round a *patented* interface? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Use ethernet or you could go with a wireless standard like Wi-Fi for high bandwidth or Bluetooth for low power local
dont give these fools any money...
C'mon Slashdot! You can do better than this!
Paul Beardsell
I never owned a car. I ride a US bus (in San Jose), not a CAN one.
It gives me an opportunity to pick up second hand lottery tickets at the bus stop and consolidate my long term revenue streams.
Ethernet requires more wires, and more expensive hardware than simpler busses, such as CAN.
IoT devices need to be cheap and low-power. Ethernet won't always be good enough.
STM32F0 and SAMD21... so it's not cheap and can't be.
Is the connector standardized for CAN? Otherwise they could have picked one that's easy to install by crimping, like RJ11. We've already been there with the Dallas one-wire networks: either use RJ11 to have power, power ground, signal and signal ground, or RJ45 because those connectors are more readily available and some extra pins are there just in case. Or maybe use an audio connector, for convenience and robustness, although those are more trouble to make up your own cables.
But there are other standards for a reliable low-speed low-wire-count low-compute-power network. But differential signaling is a must, and higher voltages help to make it more robust too.
A worthwhile next step would be to get an open core design for one of these incorporated into a next-gen Risc-V based microcontroller. Then all the makers could get behind it, just to support the open-IP ecosystem.
Remember when RepRaps used RS485 between components? (e.g. https://reprap.org/wiki/Extrud...) And there have been smart stepper motors. I kindof thought that idea was going to take off, early on, but most seem to have decided it's cheaper to centralize the logic and the stepper drivers on one board. But that doesn't scale to larger machines. If CAN has an advantage over RS485 for that, it might make some sense; but I still think one micro ought to be enough to implement it; and if it's not, then CAN is probably the wrong choice.
Wireless is popular, but every device needs power so nothing can really be disconnected for the long term, unless it runs from solar power. (Batteries either have to be plugged in to recharge, or else they are environmentally unsustainable. Or both.) And there is the ongoing suspicion that RF exposure might cause health problems too. Whenever that risk finally hits the majority's radar, which technology is going to be in position to be the next contender? LiFi could be fairly easy I think.
I had an idea years ago to incorporate optical fiber into every power cable and every power outlet (simply standardize the position on the plug, relative to the other 3 prongs, assuming a choice of fiber technology such that precise alignment isn't necessary), so that when you plug anything in, you get networking at the same time. But that's a chicken-egg problem.
Alternatively, find a way to make one of the powerline networking standards cheaper. We can't get away from in-wall wiring to power stuff; so, one way or another, the network and the power wiring ought to be combined, IMO.
Anything else, like adding wires in the walls is nonsense.
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
Hard wired and behind a firewall is the ONLY way to use any device that interfaces to my real life.
Call me a luddite all you wish, but you can't fuck with my locks, lights, freezer or whatever else I might care to control.
What do you mean by serious IoT stuff vs the Toys we have now?
The key reason of the popularity of wireless internet is due to the difficulty of upgrading buildings to current networking demands.
20 years ago it would be common to see Network with BNC cables. Category 5 was just started to take over. In terms to cable I think we are at Cat 7. When we hit limits on our speed we need to upgrade the building infrastructure. It is often cheaper and easier to go with wireless even if it is 5 years slower.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
As the saying goes : standard is better than the best solution. Personally I have really been hoping for more PoE IoT stuff, and I suspect I am not alone.
TCP/IP also has "zero security", but this isn't a problem because security happens at higher layers of the software communication stack.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Hardwired does provide improved security, but if done correctly wireless can be almost as secure.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Why didn't they call it the CANduino? Because it's already taken...
Regardless whether this is a slashvertisement or enthusiast submission, it is quite an interesting product - apparently you can make 300m / 1000 feet long networks with it, using the one cable that transports both power and data. I find it quite a cool solution for makers.
Hardwired does provide improved security, but if done correctly wireless can be almost as secure.
That depends on how you define secure. With one powerful transmitter you can execute DOS attack on a wireless network fairly easily.
I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
They're thicker and less flexible than CAN cables though.
I'm curious what IoT type stuff is full wireless though. Most of what I see already has a power source (Doorbells, Lights, Smoke Alarms, Fans, AC, Washers, Thermostats).
Other things are useless with a wire (locks, can't really think what else).
Sure, this solves the janky security issue to an extent, but I'm unconvinced this actually solves the power issue.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
Why kind of IoT device would benefit from a wired data connection over, say, Wifi or low power long range radio?
The main advantage of a wired connection is data rate. What kind of IoT device needs more than WiFi can supply?
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
All about trade offs, and I don't think most IoT is worth the trade off. Someone is almost always home at my house. I can get up and switch on/off lights and other stuff in my house rather than doing it from my couch with my smartphone. I'm willing to pay people to come into my house to do things, except for the rare more expensive item like a replacement AC, so a physical key is all I've ever needed to get in and out of my house. I also pretty much never forget to turn off the lights or similar things so remote indications of what is on is pretty useless to me.
Don't get me wrong, there are some useful applications to IoT out there, mostly monitoring devices are what interest me. However most IoT just seems like a very minor convenience item, with the trade off being a security risk that would have to be virtually 0% risk to be a viable trade off with the low value added (IMHO). When you add that these items aren't free, just not worth it for me.
The main advantage of a wired connection is the lack of batteries and a consistent connection. Would you ever consider installing RFID door latches in an office that were dependent on batteries? How about a security camera that could be trivially disabled, from outside camera range, with a $10 signal jammer.
RFID door latches with solar power are not a bad idea. Have a key as a backup but most people can just use a card/phone for entry.
Wireless security cameras are very popular thanks to ease of installation. They usually have an SD card slot that stores the video, the wireless just being for viewing or downloading video.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Two easy ways to power a lock:
1. With a wire from the hinge side of the door.
2. Inductive coupling like the charger for your electric toothbrush.
There are a frustrating number of thermostats which must be wired in to the furnace and have wifi but don't have ethernet. Why? Why would you make the product that way?
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
RFID door latches with solar power are not a bad idea. Have a key as a backup but most people can just use a card/phone for entry.
We would never issue keys because the use of a key leaves a hole in our audit trail. If employees are only issued RFID tags, the log is complete unless there were "system issues", which should be limited in duration and documented. If we issued keys, even if they were only issued for the purposed of backup, we would always have to second guess the entry logs.
I'm not saying everyone needs this. But, a lot do. The unreliability of batteries and WiFi are the reason these products are consumer/hobbiest only products and aren't often used in professional situations.
If that were my only layer of security, I'd be worried. It's not, and worst case (aside from confronting me, Smith and Wesson), would be paying the deductible on my insurance. But there are several layers between those.
Just another day in Paradise
From the link you gave, the patents are expired.
I don't know about CAN-FD, but this project does not use CAN-FD.
Or your meant trademarked? You can call it ISO 11898 instead of CAN...
That would be my interest as well— wireless is just subject to too many unknowns even with a fairly robust design. I also cringe when people talk about powerline— I expect 24VDC to start taking over in the next 10 years for both commercial and residential power, with a power supply on a room-level basis. Power consumption per device simply no longer warrants 120VAC (much less 220VAC). The lower energy consumption, ability to provide backup power, and lower installation cost/ease of modification will push it.
Re done correctly wireless can be almost as secure.
Not if the bad people jam all consumer wifi. That is very bad for security that will use wifi.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Wireless security cameras can be jammed and then fail. Ease of installation and wifi is no good if the bad people can take over wifi and turn off wireless security cameras.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
CANbus was developed for the automotive environment and it has some worthwhile features there, but for a flexible network where you want some amount of bandwidth? No way.
In the automation world we went through a decade or more of using DeviceNET, which is just a proprietary version of CANbus. Yes it's nice that power goes through the same cable, but you have to set your throughput at 125, 250, or 500 kbit/sec based on cable length and you have to add terminating resistors at both ends. There's only one master and all the rest are slaves, so no peer-to-peer. Drop cables are very limited in length (6'?). The power is limited to 4A, and the grounding/shielding issues... oh my! You could follow all the whitepaper instructions perfectly (checking for ground loops, etc.) you'd have random communication troubles until you did something perverse like disconnect the shield from ground and let it float and suddenly it'd work fine. DeviceNET was sold as perfect for long runs, such as along a conveyor system, but go too far and you're into weird power or grounding issues.
If you wanted a network with the same topology with more off-the-shelf hardware and more flexibility for bandwidth and peer-to-peer, just go with RS-485. That would work well with Arduino hardware because it already has the serial port chip and you can level shift to RS-485 levels with an off-the-shelf adapter. Buy some two-pair twisted-pair cable and run power in the other pair. Pick a wire gauge to suit.
Of course, why not just go with Ethernet, optionally PoE? You will pay more for the device with an Ethernet chip, but they're getting cheaper, and wouldn't you rather run CAT5/6 through your walls than some proprietary thing nothing else uses?
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
Wired cameras can have the wires cut. Hard line installation is no good if bad people with wire cutters can disable the cameras.
Back in the real word the average burglar doesn't carry a wifi jammer, most firmware isn't so flakey that loss of wifi signal results in the SD card recording failing, and these cameras are a big improvement over the alternative - which is nothing.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Over the past year, I started a few projects and tested several microcontrollers.
There are already several alternatives that are very capable. There is no point in using Arduino anymore with these options available.
First, you have the STM32 Blue Pill and its cousin, the Black Pill. Each sells for less than $3 on eBay. They are 72MHz ARM Cortex M3, with 20KB of RAM, and 128KB of Flash storage. I am using it to make a Goto telescope controller with USB and WiFi based on OnStep, and ported it to the STM32 platform, and implemented a Hardware Abstraction Layer for the project. See the prototypevideo. The entire controller's electronics can be built for $25 or less (motors extra).
There is also the ESP32 ($8) from Espressif, and its predecessor, the ESP8266 (~ $4). This has a single or dual core processor with WiFi and Bluetooth. I built a temperature and humidity sensor using the ESP8266 (with a DHT22 sensor), and I am building a car garage sensor using the ESP32 with ultrasonic sensors.
So networking already exists, as well as powerful CPUs. The only drawback of the ESPs is that they draw lots of power (relatively speaking, I run them using USB phone chargers) and they have a limited number of GPIO pins (so not suitable for a telescope controller with 7 pins per axis, and a few other peripherals).
And as pointed out earlier, an open network is called Ethernet (or WiFi) not CAN-Bus.
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Re Back in the real word the average burglar doesn't carry a wifi jammer.
Thats what everyone thought who put in consumer wifi security...
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I use a raspberry zero w to do some light switching. I could access it from the Intertubes over ssh, but turning in and off a light would bre the least of my problems.
The web interface is not accessible from the outside. But no way on hell would i do this via an external app with any company. Oh, the webserver is http://hackme.houghi.org/
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
But in any case, what would be the point of a wifi jammer? The burglar would still be recorded on the SD card.
I guess some cameras have an alert feature that wouldn't operate while the jammer was active, but if you rely on that for security...
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
So the area would lose all night vision advantage and not have 360 deg camera vision. Add in cell phone jamming too.
The area is left without 360 deg cameras and no easy way to use a cell phone.
Wired camera networks start to become another investment to consider beyond just consumer wifi cameras that can be jammed.
Fall back to a SD card on a consumer wifi camera is not going to really be much use at that time in real time.
Criminal groups in different nations can import a lot of low cost once mil grade tech.
One way to counter that is to invest in wired camera networks again. One more advantage is kept working.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
These are consumer grade IoT devices. You seem to be talking about professional, manned devices.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Re "consumer grade IoT devices" ....
So are low cost wifi security camera networks used around the world.
Thats one part of the IoT that could "benefit from a wired data connection"
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
It seems to me that for a home thermostat, wireless only is good enough if it's a retrofit. To add Ethernet you're going to need to run another wire through the wall, why not just use wifi and the supplied power that already exists (a reason big enough that it's worth designing around the space used and the extra however much a piece to have a niche item on every thermostat). Essentially every house already has a thermostat wire in the correct place for a thermostat.
As for the door, sure, it's easy if you have the correct type of door (I guess?), but I don't know how I'd run a wire through my door from the opposite side. Maybe the inductive method could be powered from the frame side and leech off the doorbell, and that would work, but it seems to me that if you want a smartlock without power issues, the better way to so it is a smart door, that has leads to wire in built into the frame (perhaps this could even become standard).
My main point though is that (almost) any stationary IoT device is already powered by something, and the movable ones don't benefit from this.
The only place this has any use is for the security of wired, or to transmit power at a level too high for USB (an existing convenient power standard) but not high enough to warrant over 50v (so that it can be wired without a license)
Not once have I been worried about the fact that my thermostat was not tied in with Ethernet to a hub, worst case, I have to spin the knob and it's a dumb thermostat (actually, I wish it had a mechanical failsafe, when things get super cold my thermostat circuit seems to voltage drop)
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
A key security advantage of wired connections is that someone needs physical access to your network to hack it. With wireless you cannot observe when someone is spying on it, and you might not notice when someone actually manages to defeat the security.
Doesn't the 1-wire bus or the SPI bus already do all this already? Arduino and Raspi have these libraries. So is this just adding a convenient molex connector?
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
CAN is just horrible. It was designed for high noise environments, but get it slightly wrong and it is a real pain to diagnose. Interoperability can be touchy.
They include *2* 32bit arm cores on the end nodes why? I am guessing they are using some off the shelf code on one of them for the networking, but come on, no real device would function this way.
Their prices are rather high for the level of functionality.
And they are asking for a very small amount of money in total - looks much more like someones personal hobby-project they are trying to cash in on.
And yet we are supposed to think it is somehow revolutionary? Umm, no.
Nothing much to see here, but I guess someone got a backhander for the slashvertising.
Any device that needs a power connection would benefit.
If you already have to run a power cable, why not run data over it too?
You can get 100mbit full duplex along with 12+ watts of power over 4 conductors. You don't need 4 pair cat5, you could use any 2 pair 100ohm utp cable. You don't need802.3af compliant PoE, you can use cheap passive PoE.
The security camera screwed to the side of my steel garage doesn't have signal issues and only needs a single cable to provide power and data, with enough power to also power it's infrared lights for night vision, fed from a passive PoE injector. I doubt my homes wifi signal would be strong there.
The wireless weather station on my roof (again, made of steel) gets occasional drop outs and the receiver is less than 15 metres from it. That's a low-power 433MHz wireless connection.
If running new cables is a problem, there's commercially available power-line ethernet too.
Wired data doesn't have its range impacted by all the other nearby devices on the same spectrum or by concrete or metal framed buildings.
What's to stop the burglar from stealing the cameras too?
Not only would they be taking the only copy of their footage, they'll also have resale value.
You'd be surprised about firmware stability.
I wouldn't be surprised if they rebooted when the wifi connection failed.
Cutting the power cord on a wifi camera also disables it too, btw.
Dome cameras don't have exposed wires either. you'd need to smash the dome first.
It's about time the updated X-10... I installed an X-10 system in my bedroom back in the late 1980s. All wired, no batteries to change (except the backup battery in that brown faux-wood alarm clock controller thingy I picked up at Radio Shack), and it worked wonderfully as long as there wasn't a lightning storm that sent surges through the power lines. Then my TV would turn on, my lights would all come on...
worst case, I have to spin the knob
Worst case someone hacks your wifi from the street and cranks your thermostat to 90. IoT security is not great.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.