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All-Radio 4.27 Portable Can't Be Removed? Then Your PC Is Severely Infected (bleepingcomputer.com)

CaptainDork shares a report from Bleeping Computer: Starting yesterday, there have been numerous reports of people's Windows computers being infected with something called "All-Radio 4.27 Portable." After researching this heavily today, it has been determined that seeing this program is a symptom of a much bigger problem on your computer. If your computer is suddenly displaying the above program, then your computer is infected with malware that installs rootkits, miners, information-stealing Trojans, and a program that is using your computer to send send out spam.

Unfortunately, while some security programs are able to remove parts of the infection, the rootkit component needs manual removal help. Due to this, if you are infected with this malware, I strongly suggest that you create a malware removal help topic in our Virus Removal forum in order to receive one-on-one help in cleaning your computer. Some of the VirusTotal scans associated with this infection have also indicated that an information stealing Trojan could have been installed by this malware bundle as well. Therefore, it is strongly suggested that you change your passwords using a clean machine if you had logged into any accounts while infected.
6/29/18: The story has been updated to specify that this malware campaign is targeting Windows computers.

139 of 247 comments (clear)

  1. Dammit! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 5, Funny

    Windows users get all the cool stuff.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    1. Re:Dammit! by moronoxyd · · Score: 1

      So you are saying tht the exact same numbers of malware and virus exist for Linux and PC, and that Windows is just as secure?

      I don't see that statement in QPs comment.
      So... you like putting words in other peoples mouths to make a point?

      Silly AC - this is not a tit for tat, where you point out a Linux problem as if it were teh equal of a Windows problem. Sorry, but we are talking about a body of work, and Windows is lapping the field several timas regarding it's abysmal security.

      Is it not true that Linux is used on many millions of IoT and network devices? Is it not true that oftentimes the makers of these devices do not provide any meaningful support after the release of the devices? Is it not true that over and over again such devices are found to have fixed passwords, gaping security holes ore are using libraries with known security problems?

      That doesn't make the problems with Windows any better, but it shows that the Linux world has it's own set of problems. Neither party has any right to look down upon the other one.

    2. Re: Dammit! by butzwonker · · Score: 1

      I don't know about Olsoc's installation but maybe because it's not possible. For example, I have 100+ VST instruments and effects installed on my Windows machine, each of them with a complicated DRM scheme that requires sending emails, logging into websites, etc. It takes about one week of full work or 4-6 weeks of spare-time work to restore the system into a workable state. I know that because I recently changed my system.

      Sure you can blame the software companies for their crappy DRM schemes, but for some of us that's the reality and reinstalling Windows from scratch is basically out of question. But hey, at least I'm not working at a recoding studio that could lose many thousands of dollar when there is a problem with their Windows installation...

    3. Re: Dammit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you know that a restore from scratch is onerous, then take a golden image of your machine from a usable state with all your apps installed. Problem solved. Clonezilla.
      Invoice is in the mail.

    4. Re:Dammit! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      So you are saying taht the exact same numbers of malware and virus exist for Linux and PC, and that Windows is just as secure?

      I don't see that statement in QPs comment.

      So... you like putting words in other peoples mouths to make a point?

      I like cutting to the chase. Trying to parse his comment wasn't easy, bit in the end, I just decided that since he was expounding something superior abut Windows over Linux with the cryptic at least they can be fixed comment - I just took a stab at what he was trying to say. Don't like it? sue me.

      Silly AC - this is not a tit for tat, where you point out a Linux problem as if it were teh equal of a Windows problem. Sorry, but we are talking about a body of work, and Windows is lapping the field several timas regarding it's abysmal security.

      Is it not true that Linux is used on many millions of IoT and network devices? Is it not true that oftentimes the makers of these devices do not provide any meaningful support after the release of the devices? Is it not true that over and over again such devices are found to have fixed passwords, gaping security holes ore are using libraries with known security problems?

      And trying to conflate the issues of IOT with a Linux install on a PC is disingenuous. Having a fixed password and lack of support or updates is a manufacturer's issue, not a problem with Linux My Linux installs get more updates than My MacOS machines, which in turn get a few more than my Windows machines. My Samsung Android tablet has maybe 1 per year, though it's tapering off. And finally anyone purchasing and using an IOT device is purchasing their own problems willingly.

      That doesn't make the problems with Windows any better, but it shows that the Linux world has it's own set of problems. Neither party has any right to look down upon the other one.

      All operating systems have issues. I use Windows, MacOS and various flavors of Linux. Linux requires more and different knowledge (though I use that knowledge on Mac as well) MacOS has nuc'ed perfectly good working software, but really, the champ is Windows, especially Windows 10, with it's horrid update process. Hates some drivers, decides it knows better, then uninstalls it, and installs a driver that Microsoft thinks is better. Breaks software installs. Brings back the BSOD. Every update is an adventure, will the computer and software work when it reboots? If it reboots. What settings did it change? I even tried going Wi-Fi and don't download updates on a metered connection to try to stop Microsoft sexually assaulting a laptop. A couple weeks later, it downloaded an update anyhow. Plus, if you click on that metered connection, it will shut off functions that shouldn't have anything to do with metered connections, like Bluetooth connectivity..I tried to install a Bluetooth speaker to that machine, and it wouldn't unless I turned the metered connection update back on.

      In ascending order of support needed:

      MacOS - maybe 2 percent Linux - 10 percent and dropping after people get the learning curve and used to terminal.

      Windows - everything else.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    5. Re:Dammit! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      He was only responding with a smart assed remark since you posted your own smart assed remark.

      You're way too serious, old man.

      PS, fuck your lawn.

      ps.. Not exactly serious - more like enjoying trolling some folks. Jes sayin'

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    6. Re: Dammit! by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      If that's the case you should have a spare HD with a cloned image, or take regular images with an appropriate tool. I used to use a pxe boot server and image systems to samba share. A real easy way is to use this guyWhen you boot back to windows, that space is invisible and unaccessible to malware. You can always boot back to linux and restore your system.

    7. Re: Dammit! by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      lost some comment there with a open tag.
      use the system rescue cd to resize your disk (gparted), and leave empty space at the end. Format that end space with a linux filesystem (xfs). Windows can't see it, but you can store a compressed image of your system using dd, partimage, or fsarchiver.

    8. Re:Dammit! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Not true. I am porting it to Linux. You can get it from the Gentoo Github (while stocks last).

      Thank you, you are doing a good thing. This will be the year of Linux getting the malware they need.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    9. Re:Dammit! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      "I wonder if they replace the engine every time they need to change oil?"

      Now you're just being silly. We replace the car since you never know if any of the oil managed to get out and stuck to something else.

      Gotta think ahead. That's why linux users will never see their year on the desktop.

      ahhh, my bad!

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    10. Re: Dammit! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      If that's the case you should have a spare HD with a cloned image, or take regular images with an appropriate tool. I used to use a pxe boot server and image systems to samba share. A real easy way is to use this guyWhen you boot back to windows, that space is invisible and unaccessible to malware. You can always boot back to linux and restore your system.

      And you hope that there isn't malware on that clone. the concept of re-cloning every time you get an update - which for the number of programs I have would mean every day - is not a solution, it's masochism.

      I suppose for people that only have the basics of Microsoft office, a peripheral or two and it wouldn't matter.

      On my Mac, Time Machine can reinstall everything, but even that takes a good while. On my PC's, I just plan on nucing it from orbit in the unulikely event it gets pwned.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    11. Re: Dammit! by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      You could use veam's free windows client to backup to a usb, NAS, or separate internal drive. It will create bootable media for you to restore from. You can even include distinct credentials for the NAS, so malware won't cross over to it.

    12. Re: Dammit! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      You could use veam's free windows client to backup to a usb, NAS, or separate internal drive. It will create bootable media for you to restore from. You can even include distinct credentials for the NAS, so malware won't cross over to it.

      Just like Grandma does.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  2. Re: Nuke & Pave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Security Program Manager, Microsoft Corporation

    I Got Hacked, What Do I Do?
    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc700813.aspx

  3. Microsoft Windows only by smoothnorman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Would it be so difficult to place somewhere in an "Operating System" tagged posting which operating system was affected? Slashdot folks really might have more than one OS in their areas and it would be nice to know which is at risk right at the top.

    1. Re:Microsoft Windows only by Black+Diamond · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you don't see an operating system listed, you can rest assured that it's windows.

    2. Re: Microsoft Windows only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If malware does attack your linux computer, rest assured that only all of your personal content in your home directory will be wiped. The actual OS and software that you can download and install again for free is protected.

    3. Re: Microsoft Windows only by Xenx · · Score: 1

      Well, the severity of the two problems likely comes down to whether it's for personal use or not. Servers or multi-user workstations probably care a lot more about the system still being usable, vs a user losing their stuff.

    4. Re:Microsoft Windows only by Trax3001BBS · · Score: 2

      Yeah or maybe just read the article.

      Meanwhile, Linux users rest easy assuming no harm can penetrate Fortress Europe.

      I dual boot; going to https://haveibeenpwned.com/ says my Email address is public domain because of Linux Mint, I thought damn...
      How this happened: https://www.zdnet.com/article/...

    5. Re:Microsoft Windows only by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      Would it be so difficult to place somewhere in an "Operating System" tagged posting which operating system was affected?

      Oh, its Windows alright.

      What I am interested in is the delivery system. The program is a crack of a popular and legit Russian program. But following the links, adware is mentioned once, and an admonition to avoid cracked programs.

      So it's a Windows issue, and probably served up in ads and delivered when people click on them.

      Which everyone should think about the next time they go to a website that won't let them in unless they turn off their ad blocker. Hopefully people her are smart enough to not clicky clicky on the ads modern websites serve up, because many do give you a dousing of malware, (I'm looking at you Forbes) but just install the Adblocker, and say bite me to the sites that won't let you in for it.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    6. Re: Microsoft Windows only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it's always funny how Linux users will brag about how the OS will be fine but couldn't care less that your home folder can still be compromised or wiped.

      You should always regularly backup your system. So, if you are compromised and it only wipes your home folder, then it's a lot easier to recover your personal information.

      You, know, the only stuff that's actually important and many cases potentially irreplacable.

      If you care enough about irreplacable stuff, back it up. Hardware fails. Virtually anyone using a computer today has experienced it. If you still fail to back stuff up entirely, then the fault is yours. If you fail to backup regularly, the fault is yours. This isn't smugness. It's a self-created nightmare.

    7. Re: Microsoft Windows only by Gavagai80 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      In reality though, my PCs have never been compromised in 18 years running desktop Linux... and never needed an antivirus. It's true that running as a limited user isn't a huge advantage in itself, just a small one. The main thing that makes Linux safer, I think, is that nearly everything I install is from a trusted repository -- not random websites that may have been compromised themselves. Microsoft tried to copy that with Windows Store, but they allow adware and don't review the source code to prevent outright malware either so it doesn't really help.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    8. Re: Microsoft Windows only by Hallux-F-Sinister · · Score: 1

      That should be true, but sadly, it is not. Every once in a great while, it is something else. They really should have specified.

      --
      Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
    9. Re: Microsoft Windows only by f3rret · · Score: 1

      In 30 years of using Windows, my Windows machine has never been compromised.
      Thus I can conclude that Windows is completely 100% secure.

      --
      Admit nothing. Deny Everything. Make Counter-accusations.
    10. Re:Microsoft Windows only by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      It does say "PC" which I believe stands for "personal computer", as in "My Computer", as in Bill Gates's personal computer.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    11. Re: Microsoft Windows only by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually Linux is more vulnerable than Windows to this kind of attack because most Linux systems do not implement any kind of secure boot procedure.

      These rootkits work by replacing some parts of the OS that are loaded very early in the boot process, things like core SATA drivers needed to read in the rest of the OS or parts of the kernel. That makes them very hard to detect and remove, because any software running on the OS that tries to read those files can be supplied with a clean copy by the rootkit. Even the kernel can't easily figure out if the SATA driver or the filesystem handler is really giving it the true data or a fake copy.

      Windows mitigates this by implementing Secure Boot. This is something that is part of the UEFI spec and which Linux users got upset about when it looks like some devices might not let you load your own keys. Modern Windows systems supplied by PC/laptop manufacturers have a Microsoft key in the UEFI that is used to verify the OS boot files have not been altered by a rootkit before loading them. Microsoft requires OEMs to implement it for Windows 10.

      Other Windows installs, particularly older ones people do themselves, might not have Secure Boot enabled and so are vulnerable to this kind of attack. Linux systems very very rarely use Secure Boot so are almost always vulnerable to.

      In both cases (Linux and Windows) some kind of root exploit is needed to alter those files in the first place. The difference is that a Windows system with Secure Boot can detect it and recover those files from a hopefully clean backup copy that normally no level of privilege allows to be corrupted. On Linux you would have to somehow notice yourself what has happened and fix it manually with a boot disk.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    12. Re: Microsoft Windows only by pauljlucas · · Score: 1

      Yes, and the point was in those rare events, they typically do mention the OS. Hence when they don't, again, you can rest assured it's Windows.

      --
      If you reply, do so only to what I explicitly wrote. If I didn't write it, don't assume or infer it.
    13. Re:Microsoft Windows only by SigmundFloyd · · Score: 1

      If you don't see an operating system listed, you can rest assured that it's windows.

      It shouldn't be that way on Slashdot. And, yes, it should have been mentioned in the summary, but doing so would require real editors.

      --
      Knowledge is power; knowledge shared is power lost.
    14. Re: Microsoft Windows only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      These rootkits work by replacing some parts of the OS that are loaded very early in the boot process, things like core SATA drivers needed to read in the rest of the OS or parts of the kernel. That makes them very hard to detect and remove, because any software running on the OS that tries to read those files can be supplied with a clean copy by the rootkit. Even the kernel can't easily figure out if the SATA driver or the filesystem handler is really giving it the true data or a fake copy.

      And isn't that the point of Linux? You don't touch the OS at all from Linux's user stand point. If you install any program, it should come from a (trusted) repository, not simply download from a site. When install, you will need to enter root password if the installation requires changes in critical system. If you are a user, you shouldn't be able to do that but rather install under your own privilege; thus, no OS. If you are the admin, then you deserve it because you should know better to be an admin. That's why most people who use Linux know what they are doing.

    15. Re: Microsoft Windows only by ls671 · · Score: 1

      In reality though, my PCs have never been compromised in 18 years running desktop Linux...

      It is impossible to be 100% sure that you are not compromised. The best you can do is keeping your eyes open.

      --
      Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
    16. Re: Microsoft Windows only by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      You just didn't know it was hacked. That much is clear.
      Besides, they didn't even have windows 30 years ago, as such. It was an add on to dos. To get a real widows OS you would need something like a Unix box running X11 or MacOS. Windows was just a toy really back then. It wasn't until 95 that windows really was onto its own.

      Don't think you're safe today. It's easy to hack a windows box if you know what you're doing.

  4. Lie down with dogs, you're bound to get fleas by EvilSS · · Score: 5, Funny
    From the article

    When malware removal expert, Aura, started helping these victims he noticed a common theme. Most of the users reported being infected after they downloaded and installed game cracks and Windows activation tools such as KMSpico.

    So don't do that.

    --
    I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    1. Re:Lie down with dogs, you're bound to get fleas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So, downloading dodgy software from dodgy sites gets you infected with viruses and malware? Who would have thought.

    2. Re:Lie down with dogs, you're bound to get fleas by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Oh Gawd! LOL, too funny.

      There's no honor among thieves.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    3. Re:Lie down with dogs, you're bound to get fleas by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Most of the users reported being infected after they downloaded and installed game cracks and Windows activation tools such as KMSpico.

      Shady software from shady places has viruses and malware? That unpossible.

      I've gone 20+ years and never gotten a computer virus, because I don't download shady software, and because I've been blocking ads as long as it was possible, and because I have disabled Flash for as long as it has existed.

      And remember kiddies, if you're going to surf porn, do it inside a VM, in a browser which doesn't accept cookies or run scripts. Preferably an old Linux VM.

      Just sayin'.

    4. Re:Lie down with dogs, you're bound to get fleas by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      What's wrong with the neat "Please active Windows" watermark anyway? It's like a friend, always there for you!

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    5. Re:Lie down with dogs, you're bound to get fleas by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

      When I'm surfing for porn, I do it inside a browser in incognito mode and I've never had aBUY VIAGRA TODAY!ny problem.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    6. Re:Lie down with dogs, you're bound to get fleas by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      lol bullshit. i've pirated pretty much every game EVER.

      Many people who buy legit copies have to use a pirated copy because it's the only one that works.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    7. Re:Lie down with dogs, you're bound to get fleas by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Last time I installed Windows, I was too lazy to type in the code. I had it right there on my desk, but laziness knows no bounds. The watermark stayed there for years until Win 7 ended.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    8. Re:Lie down with dogs, you're bound to get fleas by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Oh Gawd! LOL, too funny.

      There's no honor among thieves.

      There's plenty of honour among thieves unless you're thieving for dishonourable reasons.

      KMSPico's creators have never shipped malware. Neither have crackers working for reputable groups. There are however hundreds of KMSPico versions out there absolutely infested with shit.

      When someone pirates the pirate things start getting nasty.

    9. Re:Lie down with dogs, you're bound to get fleas by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Here is an idea... if the legit copy doesn't work, then don't support them with money until they can produce something that does work? Crazy, I know.

      The problem of course, is that you don't know until you try it after you buy it.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  5. What radio stations does it give me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Let's talk about the pros of this,

    1. Re: What radio stations does it give me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And I get free Windows and game cracks?

      SCORE!

  6. Re: One-on-one-help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Hello, my name is Vikash and I am from Microsoft. I am calling because you are the infected PC. I can do the needful but you must revert with all CC number and bank detail. I am also to be posting on the Slashdot with relevant detail. Please to revert immediately.

  7. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  8. This is why we can't have nice things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Someone tries to post a helpful PSA type message and predictably the comments section is immediately flooded with people who have nothing of any value to say, but can't help but be assholes and make some kind of stupid "Windoze $ux!" type comment. We're all happy that Linux, macOS, or whatever the fuck else you might be using works for you, now kindly take your insecurities back to Linux or Mac forums where you can blissfully live out the rest of your days in a happy echo chamber where no one will ever challenge your views. We don't need the same 50 people making the same 50 useless comments every time there's a post about Windows. We all heard you the last 50 times and didn't care, so the odds of us suddenly caring now are zero.

    1. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by Narcocide · · Score: 2

      For every five hundred thousand or so obstinate windows users who think they are punishing us, there is one that it might sink through to. We'll continue to try to save the ones that deserve it, thank you. You can strive to become worthy or you can continue to get bent.

    2. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 2

      Here's the problem.

      "Unfortunately, while some security programs are able to remove parts of the infection, the rootkit component needs manual removal help."

      I have never in my life ever heard of any type of malware or code that can be written that can :
          "Be removed with human assistance" that cannot be removed by a program.

      If someone were even a mildly competent "security researcher", they would write a script or a program that would do the removal that is needed as well as provide detailed instructions of how to use it if necessary.

      Under no circumstance should you ever trust anyone who claims to be competent in security who is not able to do this. And as such, you should never let them connect to your computer.

      I mean seriously, CVEs are how we report vulnerabilities of this sort. Once the CVE is reported and someone shares the virus with programmers (which are like security researchers but tend to fix problems instead of updating the LinkedIn everytime they learn a new buzz word), the virus/malware is disassembled/decompiled as well as run in sandboxes with all system calls hooked and the attack vectors are identified. Once this is known, it is possible to undo pretty much anything that has been done.

      So... if you don't know enough about security to do those things and you make comments about how something can't be done without human intervention, then you're more or less useless when it comes to security.

      If you happen to have a computer infected with this virus, contact any of the many antivirus companies out there and pass it along to them. They'll properly document it and make a removal tool for it. It's not particularly difficult.

    3. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

      Dude, I'm a Microsoft fanboi... also a Linux fanboi... WSL is like Christmas every day for me.

      I have Macs also... I don't really know why... but they are pretty. I buy them and swear I'll use them someday. I am an iPhone user though. I have and love my iPhone 6S Plus and can't wait to get a new battery for it in Paris in a few weeks.

      People like debating about which OS is best. The answer is pretty simple... they're all pretty great these days... though if I ever see Gnome again, I'll vomit on whoever's keyboard it is in front of me. Move on... if it bothers you...maybe Slashdot is not the right place for you.

    4. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Informative

      I have never in my life ever heard of any type of malware or code that can be written that can :
              "Be removed with human assistance" that cannot be removed by a program.

      Those have been around for over a decade.

      They work by replacing some core part of the OS, like the SATA driver or the filesystem driver. That makes it impossible for anti-virus software to clean the infected files, because the rootkit can block writes to those files and hand the AV software clean copies when it scans them. They operate at such a deep level, running inside the kernel, that the best AV software can do is detect their secondary effects and try to suppress them.

      The only way around this is to manually boot from a recovery CD and replace the infected files. Some AV companies provide bootable CDs that can run their software. The best ones use Linux because the Linux NTFS driver just ignores permissions and lets them access those system files and delete them. Then you can use a Windows install disk or the Windows 10 recovery system to replace them and get the system running.

      It's a manual process, the rebooting from CD/USB drive and then running the Windows recovery can't be automated.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re:This is why we can't have nice things by f00zbll · · Score: 1

      I guess you've never heard of bios or boot sector virus/trojan. This is well documented over the last 3 decades. There are trojans that can infect drivers or system services, which in many cases can't be automatically removed. In those cases, the best bet is to wipe the system and do a fresh install. Back in the 90's there was a particularly bad boot sector virus that bricked thousands of systems. That was before bios had any virus protection. These days most MB have bios virus protection, so bricking a MB rarely happens. On linux, attackers used to break in, upload a root kit and recompile the kernel. In that case, your only choice was to wipe the HD.

    6. Re: This is why we can't have nice things by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

      Push a patch as a UEFI module and reboot? SecureBoot will validate itâ€(TM)s signature and it can be staged to run before the drive firmware.

      I suppose there are still machines running BIOS, but I donâ€(TM)t think I have owned any in several years.

      I certainly would hope that the â€oesecurity companies†have the ability to do this.

    7. Re: This is why we can't have nice things by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Does AV software having the ability to push UEFI modules sound like a good idea?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  9. Re: One-on-one-help by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Greetings! Kindly install the attached program so as to remote into your Windows and remove bug. But first visit link below and provide credit card information so as to I can verify your computer fingerprint identity. Seeing many scams, rest assured I want to remove virus and send you on happy day. Salutations, Chris from Salina, Kansas

  10. Re:Poor Microsoft by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You clearly have no clue as to how expensive writing a new Operating System would be. Hell, just look back at when Apple needed to replace Mac OS and had to endure bringing back that smug turtle neck wearing megalomaniac bastard as CEO just to get an OS that wasn't some Open Source cheeseball

  11. Virus Protection is So Good by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yet another reason to not waste your money on "virus protection." Use the free Windows Defender if you must, and make sure you have good backups.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:Virus Protection is So Good by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I think you overestimate the degree to which "sensible" browsing will protect you. I might go a high as 90%, which is no small advantage. Of course if by sensible browsing you mean avoiding browsers that allow javascript and never downloading anything executable, then I'd go as high as 99.9%.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    2. Re:Virus Protection is So Good by Peter+P+Peters · · Score: 1

      Yet another reason to not waste your money on "virus protection." Use the free Windows Defender if you must, and make sure you have good backups.

      I stopped using AV about 10 years ago after numerous performance issues with flaky AV products. 10 years on and no issues! Sensible browsing/downloading/email behaviour is 99% of the battle

    3. Re:Virus Protection is So Good by Thor+Ablestar · · Score: 1

      Once upon a time I worked in some institution that had access to the corporate network only. We bought a new notebook, attached it to the network and did nothing more. It became infected in 15 minutes. Were we the other 0.0001%?

    4. Re:Virus Protection is So Good by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      Do you backup your stuff? I do, two different external drives and they are switched into the safe. So does my wife and it has saved our butt.
      I have to admit, the Mac backup really is great. We blew a disk drive. They replaced it, loaded the OS and I think about 3 hours or so later it was all back exactly as it was. She had an up to date backup, no loss at all. We were even on vacation.

      I can get my Linux desktop back, no where near as easy though.

  12. Data yes, OS and programs, no by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Absolutely you're right the best way to handle a rootkit is restore from a known-good backup. Just like you practiced, last month when you tested it when found and fixed the problem with backup system.

    Unfortunately, 90% of people don't have a proper backup system. Probably over half of systems that are being "backed up" can't actually be restored because the backup media went bad a year ago or whatever.

    For the people who don't have a solid backup:

    > some IT professional who sells himself to a client by claiming he can remove this and leave the user's precious data intact?

    What you definitely don't do is try to salvage the operating system and programs. Just re-install those. It was time to upgrade anyway. DATA *can* be painstakingly recovered. It's a heck of a lot easier if your data isn't mixed with code - no MS Office macros, etc. If you keep your data separate from executable code, it absolutely can be recovered, though it's very easy to slip up and let a potentially infected file through.

    1. Re:Data yes, OS and programs, no by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but Perl and Python code is programs. You don't trust them from an infected system. Text files you can usually trust, and html that doesn't use javascript or some such. (Not just javascript. You've also got to be careful about allowing CSS, with simple formatting being safe, but anything else needing to be carefully hand checked.) For spreadsheets you should recover from CSV files, but the CSV files can be stored on the disk that got infected. Etc.

      But just running code in a virtual machine doesn't make it safe.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    2. Re:Data yes, OS and programs, no by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Huh? What operating system are you using?

      Out of the box, Windows sets you up with OneDrive and points all of your storage stuff to OneDrive. The result is that all your files are backed up.

      Out of the box, Apple sets up iCloud and points all your file storage to iCloud. The result is that all your files are backed up.

      You can use DropBox or a thousand alternatives if you want.

      If you want a better solution, you can use either Windows Backup and Restore or Apple Time Machine which does pretty much the same thing.

      If you're a developer, then all your stuff is on Github or similar.

      As for applications, Windows Store and App Store makes that pretty quick and simple. Of course, there are some other programs you would install otherwise, but it's not like you can't download them.

      Also, if you have a Mac or a Microsoft Surface, you can simply reinstall the OS no matter how bungled it may by simply connecting to the Internet from the UEFI system and recovering from the cloud for example.

      You have to be an absolute moron in 2018 to no have access to all your stuff.

      That said, to be honest, I have absolutely no idea how to maintain good backups of my Linux systems. I keep most of my stuff on Github. Other than VS Code and .NET Core, I don't really use much more than a simple Linux install anyway. I don't use anything but Raspberry, Orange and Banana Pis for servers anymore. I have 25,000 of them now. When they die, I just throw them away and get more.

    3. Re:Data yes, OS and programs, no by Lord_Jeremy · · Score: 1

      Amen.

      Nearly 10 years ago, I suffered from a hard drive crash and I lost a ton of data. Ever since that issue, I’ve been religious about backups. I used Mac OS’s built-in backup software and I copied all my documents and work files to a flash drive daily. I instructed my family to grab the NAS drive on the way out of the house in the event of fire.

      I subscribed to Crashplan cloud backup at some point. They went belly-up but I had already switched to Backlaze. It sounded like it would be a hassle to restore, my laptop had 250GB of files backed up and they would have to mail me a HDD to restore from it I ever needed to rebuild my system.

      A couple weeks ago, I upgraded my laptop OS to a beta version. I needed to test some software for work and the beta seemed fairly stable. Big mistake, my machine became practically unusable. In a fit of frustration, I blew the OS away. I knew my backups were solid so I was confident in erasing the entire drive. After I reinstalled the OS, I signed into my iCloud and Dropbox accounts. Then I went into Backblaze to retrieve my backup. It was at this point I realized, I wasn’t missing anything that I needed my backups for.

      All of my work files and personal documents were either in my iCloud synced Documents and Desktop folders, or they were in my Dropbox folder. My Photos were stored in iCloud. My music was stored in iTunes Match. The only “files” I found to be missing were ephemeral things that had been in my Downloads folder. It was a nutty experience, realizing that I had all the data I cared about after a disk wipe, without touching my backups.

      I’m still happy to pay for Backblaze cloud backups. Maybe I’ll accidentally delete something that I need to get back. It’s happened before. Or maybe my cloud account will get trashed. One of my close friends suffered a destructive hack of her iCloud account by an ex-boyfriend and lost all of her personal data. Nonetheless, it’s been a shock to realize that my personal data has been robustly (and theoretically safely) stored in such a way that I don’t need to care about backing up anymore. That’s the sales pitch, anyway. I feel pretty good about it, the sync process is extremely convenient. But I still maintain my backups :)

    4. Re:Data yes, OS and programs, no by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      SpiderOak is good for Linux. It can only cover your data, apps will need to be reinstalled but at least on Linux that's fairly easy.

      On Windows there is Chocolately for installing and updating apps, but I haven't tried it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re:Data yes, OS and programs, no by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

      Absolutely you're right the best way to handle a rootkit is restore from a known-good backup.

      What is a "known-good" backup? A rootkit is here to conceal its existence. You don't really know when the infection started, and which backups are good.

    6. Re:Data yes, OS and programs, no by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      >to be honest, I have absolutely no idea how to maintain good backups of my Linux systems

      --Tar and fsarchiver. Send me a private email and I can send you my root admin scripts, complete with bare-metal restore ability.

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
    7. Re:Data yes, OS and programs, no by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      > We dragged all his files to an external USB. I determined that there were thousands fewer files on the backup, but we pressed on nevertheless. It turned out that I had not backed up any of his Thunderbird POP3 mailboxes, where all his business-critical data was stored

      --If you don't know what you did wrong, you shouldn't be trying to help friends with upgrades. Next time go to Folder Options and Show Hidden Files. And either use Xcopy from CMD window or a modern file copier like Teracopy.

      --Also, grab a free copy of both AOMEI Backupper and Veeam Agent for Windows and put them on a thumbdrive -- both of these will do full bare-metal backup and restores to different hardware / virtual machines.

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
    8. Re:Data yes, OS and programs, no by Thor+Ablestar · · Score: 1

      Some 15 years ago I worked in some institution. My policy is:

      1) Install the new system on new HDD.
      2) Copy all work files to the new HDD.
      3) Hide the old HDD.
      4) When it's known that everything works then save some critical work files somewhere, test and reuse the HDD.

      I asked the management that I need a new HDD. The institution head told my boss to supply me with HDD. My boss left the resolution "You don't need a new HDD". I copied the work files, erased the HDD and reinstalled the system. Then it appeared that some program saves it's work files in c:\Program Files which was not expected. My boss had lots of unpleasant talks both with institution head and operator of this PC.

    9. Re:Data yes, OS and programs, no by strikethree · · Score: 1

      That said, to be honest, I have absolutely no idea how to maintain good backups of my Linux systems.

      I don't mean to be rude, but you should turn in your geek card. Maintaining good backups is even easier in Linux than any other operating system.

      Everything unique will be under /home/username. You can back this up with rsync, cp, tar, or even dd if it is a partition. There is no hand holding, but then, it really shouldn't be necessary when the design itself is so elegantly simple. What is even cooler is that this knowledge of backing up carries across to the various BSDs and other Unix-like operating systems.

      I have to admit, since Windows 10 came out, I find myself using Windows a LOT less. I only ever boot into it to patch it. Every time I try to do something in it, I end up giving up after an hour and go back to Linux. Windows 10 feels like slipshod engineering along with the whole "microscope up my ass" feeling.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
  13. Re: Nuke & Pave by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

    To be fair, it's less work for everyone involved to format and re-install, even if you can manually fix something major. And with a Windows box you'll probably have to re-install sometime in the next 5 years anyways.

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  14. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  15. Re:Windows in a VM by jfdavis668 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I run Windows in a VM on Windows. Get twice the updates!

  16. Re: One-on-one-help by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    Yes sir immediately, I will call Bob and Mova for help, please hold.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  17. So unfair, Windows gets all the cool malware! by Stomper_Stoddard · · Score: 2

    Does anyone have a customer service number I can call? I want to complain that this software does not run on Linux.

    1. Re:So unfair, Windows gets all the cool malware! by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

      You're telling me!!!

      Gnome... I honestly have no idea how this thing has survived this long.

      KDE... don't get me wrong... Mattias Etttrich is one of my favorite people but KDE has evolved into what looks and feels like retro computing.

      The entire Linux desktop is in such utter and total disarray in 2018, these days, I just configure runlevel 3 and remote in if I need it. ElementaryOS is pretty, and I like it, but heaven forbid you actually need to do something on it.

      Now.. if someone were to take Linux as a desktop seriously, they would invest i... actually I think that ship has completely sailed. I would say ChromeOS was starting to show promise, but there will be no Linux left in that soon.

    2. Re:So unfair, Windows gets all the cool malware! by pi_rules · · Score: 1

      Have you tried Mint? The default Cinnamon desktop install works pretty well for me. I've been running Linux as a home desktop since 1998 or so and that's probably the best out of the box setup I've ever seen.

  18. Re:Poor Microsoft by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    Which one is a better alternative to macOS? OpenBSD or FreeBSD?

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  19. Format conversion for sterilization. Word - WPS by raymorris · · Score: 1

    One technique for data sterilization is to convert to a different format. For example, converting a Word document to WordPerfect will make sure there are no macros, I believe. Then convert back. Even better, convert to plain text if possible, and leave it as plain text. JPG to bump, etc.

  20. Radio.slashdot.org? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

    Donâ(TM)t look now, but this All-Radio Trojan seems to have control of your DNS server!

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  21. Re:If you are infected your doing it wrong by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

    "so you can actually run a properly designed, maintained, and supportable operating system"

    So, it's designed, maintained and able to be supported but doesn't actually have support?

    I'm struggling here. Which operating system are you suggesting is designed, maintained and supportable?

    I've been using Linux since pretty much the first time I managed to borrow an Yggdrasil CD from a friend and eventually figured out how to make the boot floppies. I've used many operating systems before and after that.

    I've only ever seen a handful of "designed" operating systems. They were interesting academic research topics which never really became more.

    I've seen a few maintained operating systems, do varying scales. I think that Elementary OS seems to be slowly closing in on being maintained. I actually think they're doing a pretty good job of trying to make a Linux which seems kinda usable, but "init 3" works for me. ArchLinux and Ubuntu Core are starting to look good too. Windows and Mac are extremely well maintained.

    Supportable... I think most operating systems are generally supportable. I've always had three categories of OS

    Mac) Instead of making an OS and proper documentation to make fixing things possible, they made an awesome reinstall and restore system so that any user can reinstall their entire machine by holding key during boot and clicking next, next next finished.

    Windows) Offers the exact same feature as the Mac, but also is well known and supported on a massive scale. Many things can be easily fixed with a Google and a few clicks and such, but people instead tend to reinstall because it's probably faster.

    Linux) Absolutely everything can be fixed... and if you're a linux person, you probably are very good at fixing those things... not because it's easy. It's absolutely black magic. It's just that you spend 30% of your time working and 70% of your time fixing your Linux system. It's basically the Ford of computing. You can fix everything with little more than a screw driver, a wrench and a hammer and it's all really easy to understand. Hit here, smack there, bang there.. it's fixed. And you can anything you want with that Ford... you can easily convert it to a driving hot dog. But just like a Ford, Linux will never be pretty, it will never be the best solution for everything. It's just a damn good tool you accept can fit just about anywhere even if you'll spend 70%-90% of your time just banging on it with a hammer hoping it will work.

    But WSL... oh baby... I mean... every time I start working on my PC and I start Ubuntu without having to start the Linux kernel and I get all that yummy Linux goodness ... I want to get and ASCII art image of Megan Fox, rub whip cream all over the screen and go to town. Windows + Linux all on the same box. I mean you're in the butter zone baby.

  22. Re:Nuke from orbit; restore from backups. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    No, no, no. If you are infected with deep malware, you do not go whining to some dude's Internet forum with a request for help. You run DBAN on your system's disks. Then you enter the combination to your fireproof safe, extract your OS and backup media, and start from scratch.

    That's what my Grandma does.

    There are two problems with your approach.

    Most users will read what you wrote and ask "What the hell is he talking about?"

    Second is that most everyone who does what you demand isn't likely to have the problem in the first place.

    My backups are similar to yours, except I have multiple. I take the added measure that anything critical is not on my Windows machines. No personal information, or cards, and even the emails on it are throwaway accounts.

    I check my Wireshark logs a lot too.

    Probably 1 out of every 500 users will do that sort of thing.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  23. Re:Which malware? by e432776 · · Score: 2

    Though I like Win10, I have noticed it installing things I never asked it to. Bubble crush saga or some such thing. I guess (another) bad thing about this bad behavior is that the appearance of random new "apps" is may not be a surprise to anyone, thus inuring them to their potential infection!

    BTW, this does seem like an ad more than a legit story.

  24. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  25. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  26. Two infected, fire-burned copies isn't backup by raymorris · · Score: 2

    Thank you for post. You've done great job listing things that fool smart, conscientious people into thinking they have a backup. That's why I said a "proper backup", proper being an important word. Those things all LOOK a lot like proper backup, don't they? And yet people who do those things end up asking me to try forensic techniques to recover their data. You seem like you know a few things, so I don't need to tell you exactly how you should do a backup, but let me point out a few common pitfalls to avoid:

    > Windows sets you up with OneDrive and points all of your storage stuff to OneDrive. The result is that all your files are backed up.

    The result of the default setup is that all of your infected files are stored on One Drive. This doesn't help. Your files are still infected. There is no backup copy, only the infected copy, so they are not backed up. It doesn't do you any good to have the infected files there rather than here.

    So here's our first file of proper backup: backups must store multiple versions going back in time, with old versions immutable.

    Recently, Microsoft has offered an option to store old versions if you pay a subscription to Office. If you're paying for it already, you may want to look into that option.

    > Windows Backup and Restore or Apple Time Machine which does pretty much the same thing.

    For those unfamiliar, Time Machine uses a USB drive connected to your computer, or a network drive to store old versions. The interface is really nice and it's awesome when you realize you screwed up and deleted or overwrote an important file. It's the ultimate undo. When you have a fire, a burglary, a flood, or a ransomware infection, that'll take both your computer itself and the USB drive. So this isn't proper backup - you're not protected a good against most types of catastrophic loss. It's a really cool extension of ctrl-z, though, to get back that file you just messed up.

    This illustrates proper backups are off site. I used to do backups for web sites. I pointed out that just in Texas alone, every year for the last four years there had been major disaster at a public datacenter. Anyone who had a server at one of these data centers and had their "backup" in the same datacenter lost everything. In one instance, I had to get creative in retrieving some customers' data from a datacenter after the company operating it failed to pay their lease and took off into the night.

    Backups must be in a separate physical location - a fire, flood, or burglary will take or destroy everything in your office.

    I mentioned before backups must be tested regularly. Backups that haven't been recently tested have a failure rate of about 50%, in my experience.

    They also need to be automated, because most people only do manual systems properly for a little while, then try start slacking off and eventually "forget" to run a backup for six months.

    Ransomware reminds us of another requirement - the system being backed up (which may get ransomware) can not have the ability to delete or modify the backups. Sending backups to a network drive just means the ransomware or disgruntled employee will destroy two copies of the data.

    > That said, to be honest, I have absolutely no idea how to maintain good backups of my Linux systems.

    After I sold one of my companies, I spent a year and half designing and building a very good backup for Linux systems. The new company backup up the web servers for hundreds of web sites. The backups were kept off site, they kept several versions, the protected system had no way to remove the backups, they were fully automated, and you could easily restore any files at any time to test it. Add a bonus, you could click a button and BOOT the backup - they were stored as virtual machines.

    It's too bad my skills at running a business aren't nearly as good as my engineering skills. I was like Wozniak without Steve Jobs - I built something really cool, something really useful, but making a successful, stable company from it wasn't my forte. If you actually have a ton of Linux systems, and if you care about any them, maybe we should talk. I still have some pretty awesome backup software for Linux.

    1. Re:Two infected, fire-burned copies isn't backup by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I mentioned before backups must be tested regularly. Backups that haven't been recently tested have a failure rate of about 50%, in my experience.

      What kinds of failures do you see? In the days of tape, 50% (or probably higher) was pretty common, but most people are using the 'cloud' now.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:Two infected, fire-burned copies isn't backup by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      > Ransomware reminds us of another requirement - the system being backed up (which may get ransomware) can not have the ability to delete or modify the backups. Sending backups to a network drive just means the ransomware or disgruntled employee will destroy two copies of the data

      --ZFS+Snapshots+Samba works pretty well for this. Keeping a ZFS snapshot every (2) hours for a month (as well as changing file permissions) is pretty easy on a Linux server.

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
    3. Re:Two infected, fire-burned copies isn't backup by Thor+Ablestar · · Score: 1

      In the day of half inch 9-track tape the tape format was able to recover multiple single-track errors, be it NRZI or PE. But I have never seen the actual mini computer controller that could do this recovery. No wonder the success rate was near 50 per cent.

  27. In other news... by nuckfuts · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Some viruses are hard to remove

    Spending one day looking into something is now called "researching heavily".

    On the serious side, I've often been annoyed by Windows 10 aggressively pushing updates, but there have been some interesting security features added to recent builds. Microsoft has a demo website with some good information, along with some tools for testing your configuration.

    There is also a video online that details the new features.

    1. Re:In other news... by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      Some viruses are hard to remove

      Spending one day looking into something is now called "researching heavily".

      I know, I thought that was funny too. Probably someone under 20. Then there were all of those pesky instant messages on their phone.

  28. Re:Poor Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Assuming that you really want to know, since I use Linux, Mac, Open and Free BSD I think I can answer objectively:
    Both OpenBSD and FreeBSD are reasonably easy to download and install and run on pretty much anything. At least, I have not found a server/desktop/laptop computer that it would not run on.

    Theo De Raadt has a 'cut the crap' mentality so OpenBSD is simpler, with a smaller repository of programs. However, you can install FreeBSD software on OpenBSD. After a few days of use, you will know how.

    In general, OpenBSD feels a lot like Slackware Linux: Simple and very fast.

    By comparison, other distros look fancy and are very slow - there are many reasons why. MacOS obviously falls into the fancy and slow category. So if you want a Mac replacement then you first need to decide whether you want a fancy or a fast system.

  29. WINDOWS MALWARE (Nice going, /.) by Hallux-F-Sinister · · Score: 1

    Way to keep readers informed. Oh, by the way, you forgot to mention something kinda important, that this is malware impacting systems running MICROSOFT WINDOWS.

    Had to waste time to go read the linked article to learn what you SHOULD have put somewhere in the title or summary. The term PC does NOT imply MS Windows; a device with the same electrical design and functionality running GNU/Linux, Apple macOS/OS X, or some other flavor or variant of UNIX is still very much, just as much, a PC. So saying malware infecting PCs and NOT specifying that itâ(TM)s MICROSOFT WINDOWS that, (if I read and understood the article,) is the targeted system, is a disservice to your readers. I didnâ(TM)t see which version or versions, etc., are impacted, but this was poor journalism from a website that styles itself as being news for nerds... I know you know that WE know that PC does not imply a system running something from Microsoft, and we know you know that. Or should.

    --
    Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
    1. Re:WINDOWS MALWARE (Nice going, /.) by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2
      The term PC does NOT imply MS Windows

      However the term malware does imply Windows, so no harm done.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  30. Re:Nuke from orbit; restore from backups. by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    I check my Wireshark logs a lot too. Probably 1 out of every 500 users will do that sort of thing.

    I would bet that's closer to one in every 500,000 users. Even security researchers don't do that (of course some do).

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  31. Re:Windows in a VM by thegarbz · · Score: 1

    If you run Windows inside a VM in your house because you're constantly getting your windows corrupted by viruses, then maybe you shouldn't be let near a computer .... like ... ever.

  32. Re: Nuke & Pave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Security Program Manager, Microsoft Corporation

    I Got Hacked, What Do I Do?
    https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc700813.aspx

    So the parent was modded up before, suddenly it gets modded down. Really slashdot moderation has been trashed recently. It's worth saying why this was the money post. The only post in the whole thread which really mattersL:

    The key quote you have to follow is:

    The only way to clean a compromised system is to flatten and rebuild. That’s right. If you have a system that has been completely compromised, the only thing you can do is to flatten the system (reformat the system disk) and rebuild it from scratch (reinstall Windows and your applications). Alternatively, you could of course work on your resume instead, but I don’t want to see you doing that.

    But it's the bit before that which really matters:

    You can’t clean a compromised system by using a virus scanner. To tell you the truth, a fully compromised system can’t be trusted. Even virus scanners must at some level rely on the system to not lie to them. If they ask whether a particular file is present, the attacker may simply have a tool in place that lies about it. Note that if you can guarantee that the only thing that compromised the system was a particular virus or worm and you know that this virus has no back doors associated with it, and the vulnerability used by the virus was not available remotely, then a virus scanner can be used to clean the system. For example, the vast majority of e-mail worms rely on a user opening an attachment. In this particular case, it is possible that the only infection on the system is the one that came from the attachment containing the worm. However, if the vulnerability used by the worm was available remotely without user action, then you can’t guarantee that the worm was the only thing that used that vulnerability. It is entirely possible that something else used the same vulnerability. In this case, you can’t just patch the system.

    Below there are people proposing reverse engineering the malware and then, if you know what it does, you can clean it up by reversing that. However, one thing most malware does is open up to the network and let the malware authors do what they want, so even if you know what this malware does you don't know what all malware does. Anything more could have happened to your system.

    Reinstall from original installation media and pray to god that your system's onboard firmware is not compromised.

  33. Re: Nuke & Pave by Mike+Frett · · Score: 1

    As someone that worked in a PC shop, all we ever did for a solution was run a virus scan, format then reinstall Windows. It usually fixed 99% of the problems and you payed us a nice, fat sum for it.

  34. Re:Poor Microsoft by thePsychologist · · Score: 1

    Sorry to say but Microsoft doesn't care about this level of security. Their experts have already determined that the effect of current malware is already an acceptable tradeoff, and they continue to put just enough emphasis on security research and prevention to maintain this level.

    --
    "What lies behind us, and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us." Ralph Waldo Emerson
  35. Sync isn't backup by swb · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sync to OneDrive, et al, isn't backup.

    Most malware doesn't immediately destroy your computer, it cripples it over days or weeks. I can't tell you the number of people who told me "Yeah, I noticed something last week and it's been flaky since then."

    Meanwhile, you've been syncing your infection up to the cloud the whole time so now your cloud storage is infected, too. You may get some of it back, but I've also seen people just re-infect themselves, too.

    Some cloud storage often at higher tiers will offer some kind of versioning and let you restore pre-infected files, but for most people this isn't the default or isn't even a feature they have.

    The only way cloud sync really works as a backup is if you have a spare computer you only bring online periodically that syncs itself and that you then take offline again, but now all you've done is add a complex network transaction to what amounts to a local backup.

  36. Re: Nuke & Pave by rally2xs · · Score: 1

    Reinstall? I think it would probably take me months to re-install all my programs, fight with the companies that have "activation" while attempting to explain why I need to re-active the old program, maybe $100's or $1000's to re-purchase the software where I was unsuccessful at fighting with the companies that have the "activation" nonsense, re-install stuff, and just generally get my computer back to the way it was. I have LOTS of stuff on my computer - my backup file is around 800 Gb, and it doesn't even back up some directory structures that are already backed up and never change. Reinstall? I'd rather buy a whole new computer and start from scratch, and that's saying something since this one is high-end and cost near $4K to build 3 years ago.

    Of course since the latest Windows 10 update broke my computer, forced a call to Microsoft help to fix it, required rolling back to the previous version, and locking out further updates lest they re-install the "upgrade" and I once again start getting memory management BSOD's, I'm probably looking at replacing this computer in a couple years as it is frozen in time, receiving no further updates, and will, I expect, probably become obsolete. But Microsoft has to keep dicking around and "upgrading" the damned thing until they make some change that's incompatible with some driver which can't be determined which it is, and for which there may be no update to fix it anyway, and... instant obsolescence. Would rather they just "upgrade" by coming out with Windows 10, 11, 12, etc and so if these don't work, then I can revert to the previous version which will at least be maintained for a while.

    If it weren't for Linux being compatible with nothing I'm interested in (there's no Linux solution for a ham radio program I use called "Winlink", I understand) (No, I DON'T want to run it in some damned emulator and add another level of complexity to the question of why it doesn't work, I just want it to work...) I'd abandon Windows. But either way, stay with Windows or jump ship to Linux, it all looks like an incredible hassle.

  37. Cleaning? by vulcanrob · · Score: 1

    "Cleaning your computer"? Geez, if you have this, reformat. Period.

  38. Re:Poor Microsoft by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    Thank you for the comparison.

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  39. where do you find the time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Your reply seemed like an incredible hassle.

  40. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  41. Re: Nuke & Pave by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    I'm amazed at how they still haven't managed to load antivirus software before the viruses.

    It's what, 2018 now?

    (and also amazed that Windows "safe" mode still loads everything in the "run at startup" registry key... safe or otherwise)

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  42. Re: Nuke & Pave by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    Why bother with a virus scan if you're going to format? Did nobody explain even the basic concepts to you?

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  43. Re:Nuke & Pave by Joce640k · · Score: 2

    Ummm.... no.

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  44. Huh by cshark · · Score: 1

    Phishing by means of slashdot post.
    Fascinating.

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  45. Re: Nuke & Pave by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Reinstall from original installation media and pray to god that your system's onboard firmware is not compromised.

    Sadly today that last part is also very significant. Thanks to the mess of modern infrastructure like UEFI, everybody's device having embedded functionality that can be updated, and processors-within-processors, it's basically impossible to ever fully trust a system that has been compromised now, no matter how drastic your recovery procedures might be. Of course, for similar reasons it's also basically impossible to trust a system that you don't know has been compromised either. Security in modern tech is broken, and the tech industry and security services broke it.

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  46. Great question. I wish the answer wasn't secret by raymorris · · Score: 1

    That's a very good question. You can use diff to see what the differences are between different backups. That normally makes it pretty obvious. You pretty much know which files were supposed to change and which weren't. This can even give you good hints as to HOW you got infected.

    There are even faster ways to tell because rootkits tend to re-send the same components. I can normally see a rootkit on a Linux system in seconds, without even actively looking for it. I'm not going to post the trick here because I don't want the rootkit authors to fix it.

  47. Rpm -qa, cat mdstat, gdisk -l by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > apps will need to be reinstalled but at least on Linux that's fairly easy.

    Re-installing the software is REALLY easy if your data includes the output of rpm -qa.

    Also sometimes very handy when things go wrong -
    cat /proc/mdstat, pvdisplay, lvmbackup, and gdisk -l

    I'm recovering an old customer's data right now. He no longer has backups with me and someone built a new, wmpty raid on his drives, making it "impossible" to recover his data. However, the old copies of mdstat and the partition layout were still hanging around from when he uses to have the backup service I used to sell. That info allowed me to reconstruct his storage from a seemingly destroyed state.

  48. Re: Nuke & Pave by Raistlin77 · · Score: 1

    The lazy fuck ran a virus scan just to show the customer that there was a virus. You missed the point of his post - he just flat out told you how he would intentionally screw customers and get paid.

    I'll bet the "PC shop" he worked for was Geek Squad. So yes, someone likely did explain the basic concepts to him: do as little work as possible, charge as much as possible, rinse, repeat.

  49. Re: Nuke & Pave by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Reinstall? I'd rather buy a whole new computer and start from scratch, and that's saying something since this one is high-end and cost near $4K to build 3 years ago.

    A fool and his money are soon parted.

  50. Many different problems. Keys, space, directories by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Several times I've seen the backup server ran out of space. The ssh key was changed. The list of directories to backup or not backup wasn't up to date. Those are a few things that have broken it after it was setup and running.

    All of these can be detected by occasionally doing a test restore, perhaps to a VM, and checking that the important files are there and important functionality works.

  51. The difference between Linux-vs-Win boot malware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    In both cases (Linux and Windows) some kind of root exploit is needed to alter those files in the first place. The difference is...

    ..that while a Windows user is willing to run that root exploit, a typical Linux user is far too lazy to remount /boot as rw and then sudo apt-get install malware. Most Linux users are so lazy they never bother to try out any malware at all, going for decades at a time, never having the tenacity or curiosity to try out "what's it like to have a computer that runs software intended to serve someone not me?"

    When you look at that last part, you realize it's not even just laziness, it's fucking selfishness. Linux users like to hoard their computers all to themselves or their users, and the bastards never think to be kind to strangers, letting them control the computer for a while. Sickening and pathetic.

  52. Re: Nuke & Pave by pnutjam · · Score: 1

    This Winlink? It looks like there are plenty of options. Even so, slapping it in a vm that you can snapshot and maintain would be way less work then maintaining your behemoth pc.

  53. Re: Nuke & Pave by pnutjam · · Score: 1

    True, cleaning up is usually at least 3 to 4 times more expensive in time and the end product is always suspect.

  54. Re:Nuke & Pave by pnutjam · · Score: 1

    If you ensure you completely wipe the drive, by "nuking" it or formatting with different filesystems, for example xfs before reinstalling windows, it's pretty safe.

  55. It is available in the apt and yum repositories. by Kludge · · Score: 1

    No, not really. Sorry.

  56. Re:Nuke from orbit; restore from backups. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

    I check my Wireshark logs a lot too. Probably 1 out of every 500 users will do that sort of thing.

    I would bet that's closer to one in every 500,000 users. Even security researchers don't do that (of course some do).

    I suppose some would call me paranoid, but I just kind of enjoy it. And people would be surprised at what they find.

    It all started when I was having issues with brittle networking software coupled with bad documentation. Then I got hooked.

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  57. Re: Nuke & Pave by Killall+-9+Bash · · Score: 2

    So, that guy seems like a douche, but I did basically the same when working at a repair shop. Run scan to find proof of virus infection. Format & reinstall for 100% reliable malware removal. Anything less than format was about a 50/50 as to whether you really removed ALL of the malware. Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

    --
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  58. Re:Nuke from orbit; restore from backups. by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I should do that more. You aare right, every time I do, I find something I didn't expect.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  59. What happened to bootdisks ?! by DrYak · · Score: 3, Interesting

    But it's the bit before that which really matters:

    You can’t clean a compromised system by using a virus scanner. To tell you the truth, a fully compromised system can’t be trusted. Even virus scanners must at some level rely on the system to not lie to them. If they ask whether a particular file is present, the attacker may simply have a tool in place that lies about it.

    That why you don't try anything from within the compromised system.
    Either you try all your effort from a known clean bootdisk (CD, USB stick, etc),
    or even better, you disconnect the drive and connect it to a known clean machine.

    A non compromised OS will not lie about what is on the disk of another system, even if that other (non-currently running system) happens to be compromised.

    (The sole exception being malware like ransomware that encrypt your data. Then nobody except the hacker holding the decryption key can read that disk).

    Reinstall from original installation media and pray to god that your system's onboard firmware is not compromised.

    Well, the attack of firmware (UEFI) or "management chips" running their own firmware (Intel ME engine and co) is indeed an entirely different level of scary.

    And given the almost total disappearance of socketed flashchips to hold these firmwares, any chance to recover from that becomes bleak.

    --
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  60. Karma by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    Don't download and install dodgy software designed to violate copyright, and you stand less chance of winding up with root kits on your computer...

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  61. Re:I'm not worried by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    Why do they all have Indian accents?

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  62. Re:Not a concern. by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    "You can't cheat on honest man."

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  63. Re: Nuke & Pave by muirhead · · Score: 1

    Have you looked into https://www.winlink.org/conten...

  64. Re: Nuke & Pave by Kiaser+Zohsay · · Score: 1

    Even virus scanners must at some level rely on the system to not lie to them.

    Kaspersky provides a Live CD rescue disk. I have had luck with it in the past. But even with a live CD, you have to know a good deal about both the target system and the malware.

    --
    I am not your blowing wind, I am the lightning.
  65. Re:Nuke & Pave by pnutjam · · Score: 1

    I think this is 99% FUD. Drive firmware alteration would crash stuff and it's outside the norm for malware of the current generation.

  66. Re:Nuke from orbit; restore from backups. by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    This situation has only escalated to this point in recent times.

    I used to have a business on the side doing PC service and upgrading work, on call. About half of my calls were from small businesses or individuals who needed malware and virus cleanups.

    Back then, it was definitely possible to clean a system so it was back to normal working condition again, although sometimes it was VERY time consuming. You had to run multiple tools on the system, including ones that booted from recovery OS's you had on bootable CD, DVD or USB stick. Admittedly, you couldn't PROVE you had a system 100% clean, but when over a dozen scanning tools say it's clean and you no longer see any excessive CPU usage or disk chatter, and you can't find anything acting abnormally or showing up in the task manager? It's clean enough to make a paying customer happy.

    The best answer was ALWAYS to wipe and reinstall from scratch. But sometimes that's not even viable. (EG. Customer has numerous apps installed that he or she no longer has license keys or installation media for and doesn't want to lose them.) If you really CAN'T get it clean, then you can tell them they're screwed and have to start over fresh -- but they're NOT gonna pay you for that answer.

    What's crazy, now, is how these rootkits have gotten so advanced, they're really winning the battle for the first time in computing history. I fought for days to remove malware on a PC for a friend, last month, and despite throwing everything I knew of at it and manually poring over all possible registry locations that can start an app on boot or login? I never did feel confident I had it fully cleaned. It was better/usable instead of freezing up and running so slowly, it was useless. And everything reported it clean. But to me, it just didn't feel quite right. I just saw too many little pauses or hesitations that MAY have been his CPU being too old and slow. But not having used his laptop before the infection, I couldn't say for certain. I wound up advising him to wipe the machine and use it as an opportunity to upgrade to a new SSD.

  67. re: Another devious malware trick by King_TJ · · Score: 2

    I ran across a particularly devious malware tactic recently. The malware was purposely setting the NTFS "dirty" flag repeatedly, so the filesystem was flagged as needing repair. That, in turn, prevented most of the bootable virus cleanup/recovery discs from cleaning the system. They'd boot up but report they could only mount the target filesystem as "read only" because it was damaged and needed to be repaired first!

  68. Re: Nuke & Pave by rally2xs · · Score: 1

    No, not that one, that's gateway software. I need client software. These are the available clients:

    https://www.winlink.org/Client...

    The client software absolutely has to do Winmore and Ardop, and you can see that the only one that does is the Windows software.

    Then of course there is the other Windows-only stuff like my Nikon camera utilities, Photoshop Elements, Office 365 (did they make it Linux yet? Maybe... don't want to lose VBA), and so forth.

    Since I have a mortally wounded computer from the last Windows update, it's tempting to build a new one an make Linux the base OS and attempt to make everything work through VMs for Windows, (see if I can get Call of Duty and Quake III (yeah, its ancient, but have been playing it about 20 years and have over 200,000 dead bots behind me), and so forth. I just really don't want to end up scripting a shell and wondering why the m-fing regular expression isn't doing what I want it to. Damn, I hated that when I had to do it for work, and it made me appreciate Windows so much more...

  69. Re: Nuke & Pave by imidan · · Score: 1

    When you decide to throw away your $4,000 computer to solve your Windows glitch, can I have it? I'll actually come to your house and pick it up, if you live in North America.

  70. Re: Nuke & Pave by rally2xs · · Score: 1

    I'll have both the crippled computer & the new linux computer simultaneously. If I can get the new linux computer to do what I want, I'll likely convert the old one to linux too, except it'd likely be several years of learning and experimentation to get the windows software to cooperate so the old computer might really be obsolete by then anyway. Anyway, I'd find a way to sell it as parts... 850 watt PS, 32Gb ram, core i7, blue ray burner, etc.

  71. Pull, not push on that Samba by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Ransomware typically wipes any network drives using the SMB protocol, as Samba does, if the infected machine has access to the share. That can be made secure by the backup backup pulling files that are shared by machine to be backed up. So the reverse of the typical model.

    1. Re:Pull, not push on that Samba by Wolfrider · · Score: 1

      > Ransomware typically wipes any network drives using the SMB protocol, as Samba does, if the infected machine has access to the share :nods:
      --Yep, but once you A) isolate the infected machines and B) ssh into the server and do a ZFS rollback (to a pre-infection snapshot time) on the ZFS-backed Samba dataset, all is back to normal again :D Rollback even "deletes" the infected files for you. ZFS snapshots are immutable unless you have basically root on the server.

      https://forums.freebsd.org/thr...

      https://github.com/zfsonlinux/...

      --
      .
      == WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
  72. Cool by raymorris · · Score: 1

    I had envisioned something a tad different when I read your earlier post.

    That's fairly similar to part of what I did on the very cool backup service I used to sell. Except I used LVM snapshots rather than ZFS, which gave us the flexibility to do some other really cool stuff.

    Sometimes the integration of ZFS is handy, sometimes it's a major limitation. It's a lot more flexible to use a file system as a file system, a volume manager as a volume manager, and RAID for RAID. ZFS tries to be all three, creating coupling that is entirely unnecessary (but convenient if your needs are simple).

  73. Re: Another devious malware trick by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    Thanks, I hadn't seen that one but will look out for it.

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