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As Student-Loan Debt Soars, Alternatives, Like Income-Share Agreements, Are On the Rise (theatlantic.com)
Last year, Lavell Burton, 36, wanted to learn to code, but was surprised to find that many of coding bootcamps cost several thousand dollars upfront. Then he found a 30-week remote program, Lambda School, that was free to attend. The program would provide comprehensive web-engineering training, and would help with job placement. Once employed, graduates would be required to pay back a set portion of their salary under an arrangement called an income-share agreement, or ISA. The Atlantic dives into such income share agreements. From a report: The concept of ISAs has been around since at least the 1950s, when the economist Milton Friedman outlined them as a hypothetical model of repayment. Yet ISAs were rarely implemented until the past few years, as student-loan default spiked and schools sought to offer other ways to pay. In 2016, Purdue University launched an ISA tuition option aimed at families who might otherwise take out high-interest private loans or Direct PLUS loans for parents to fill the gap between federal student loans and the cost of tuition. Purdue hired Vemo Education, a for-profit startup, to help design and administer the program, which is largely backed by the university's funds. The private schools Clarkson University and Messiah College have since announced plans to follow suit, as has the United States Collegiate Athletic Association, which has partnered with Vemo to create ISA options for its roughly 80 member schools.
Among for-profit programs, in 2012, App Academy, a coding bootcamp with locations in San Francisco and New York, began offering a twelve-week program built around an ISA. Others, like the New York Code + Design Academy, which provides a range of web engineering and design courses, and Holberton School, a two-year program in San Francisco, have similar payment options. [...] The ISA-based programs have generated hype, as well as some early success stories. Yet questions remain about whether they are a good deal for students and if they make for profitable businesses in the long run. For one thing, there's little consensus around how much is fair to reap from program graduates, and for how long. Lambda School, for example, requires graduates earning at least $50,000 to pay back 17 percent of their salary for two years, with total payments capped at $30,000. The terms can vary widely among programs. Also, while it's clear how programs like Lambda School might help some people improve their prospects, many of them are so new -- Lambda School is one year old this month -- that there isn't much data about how people do once they get through the programs. That makes it difficult for prospective students to evaluate them.
Among for-profit programs, in 2012, App Academy, a coding bootcamp with locations in San Francisco and New York, began offering a twelve-week program built around an ISA. Others, like the New York Code + Design Academy, which provides a range of web engineering and design courses, and Holberton School, a two-year program in San Francisco, have similar payment options. [...] The ISA-based programs have generated hype, as well as some early success stories. Yet questions remain about whether they are a good deal for students and if they make for profitable businesses in the long run. For one thing, there's little consensus around how much is fair to reap from program graduates, and for how long. Lambda School, for example, requires graduates earning at least $50,000 to pay back 17 percent of their salary for two years, with total payments capped at $30,000. The terms can vary widely among programs. Also, while it's clear how programs like Lambda School might help some people improve their prospects, many of them are so new -- Lambda School is one year old this month -- that there isn't much data about how people do once they get through the programs. That makes it difficult for prospective students to evaluate them.
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Computer schools have been around a long time. I remember seeing TV ads from Control Data Institute back the the 70s. Why is it so expensive now that you need loans, or these schemes, to pay it off?
The entire higher education system is borked, and this is just one more symptom. There needs to be a massive federal review of public universities, which should be existing for the public good, but are instead ballooning in cost just because they can. They want to act like (very inefficient) private companies, while at the same time, getting state and federal funding. That can't go both ways. People say that costs are going up because loans ensure that even the poor students can go to higher education (and they very well should have that ability) but university administrators choose to take advantage of that. It needs to stop. If the university administrators aren't going to do the right thing, they should be made to.
As an aside, universities should also get rid of all the adult daycare bullshit. I have to pay thousands of dollars every year in 'student activity fees' for the PhD program I'm in (Clemson, no problem naming & shaming). These fees are going toward things like 'Chocolate Milk Night,' 'Dave & Buster's Night,' 'Decorate a Mug Night,' and 'Tie Dye a T-shirt Night.' Not making that up, that's the sort of absolutely idiotic things people are going further into debt for.
It's as if millions of liberal arts college's voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
Have gnu, will travel.
If I read this right, if the school fails to teach the student what they need to get an actual job, then they won't get paid. If the school signs up some flunky student who never comes to class because they partied all night long every night, then they won't get paid. If the school admits students who will never make it in the real world because they have no study or work ethics, or are just too dumb to learn the material, then they won't get paid either. Sounds, like they have an actual financial incentive to admit bright, hard-working students and teach them valuable skills.
Public College. Free.
Semester fees apply (approx. 50 euros/month), but since the student ID comes with free public transport in the entire state I'm actually faring cheaper than a non-student.
BTW: Did you know you can study for free in Germany, even if you're an USian? ... Just sayin'.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
You aren't paying for the knowledge, you are paying for the credentials.
"He who can, does; he who cannot, teaches." by George Bernard Shaw
When I was a senior developer, I used to be sent to low to mid level programmer courses to determine if they were worth the cost, I encountered a LOT of "teachers" who simply read from the book. When you asked a question these "teachers" often would not be able to answer it, even though it was actually mentioned further in the book. I would expect a "teacher" to have at least read the book from cover to cover a couple times before trying to impart the knowledge to others. Needless to say my review of those courses was not positive, and our juniors were never sent for those courses.
But I have to agree with you, if you haven't taught yourself some programming by the time you go for ANY course, well, perhaps you should pick another career. If you don't love programming enough to teach yourself, you are going to hate sitting behind a computer the whole day, doing something you didn't really want to do in the first place. I worked with a Java programmer who wanted to be a photographer, but the money sucked, so he coded instead. Hated it, hated being there, and hated being stuck behind a desk the whole day. Any time we needed someone to go onsite he was the first to volunteer, just to get out from behind his desk. He actually was pretty smart, and his code was good, it's just not where his passion lay.
A lot of people seem to think coding is "easy" and don't realize how sometimes you can work VERY VERY long hours to meet deadlines. I have been working since 8 in the morning, and it's now past 9 in the evening, and yes, I am taking a break to eat and read some slashdot, but after that I am going back to work.
There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
Your university is trying to teach you some social skills. Perhaps chocolate milk night isn't such a bad idea... and might actually get you laid.
So, like indenture?
Finally a modicum of rationality
Thanks Reagan, Bush, Bush and tRump, for 21.2 TRILLION in debt and rising.
Before you scream Obama, who raised the debt only 83% compared to 43's 113%, remember he was FIXING the Bush mess and DID have the greatest expansion since 1940 in American history.
And here it is, the end result of the Fascist agenda of Wall Street and their pay off for the price of buying the Dems and the GOP these last 45+ years. Enjoy your slavery you fucking assholes. Much worse is to come. By 2030, if can't pay that $10,000 ambulance fee and $500,000 overnight stay for a broken leg you will legally be able to sold into "debt servitude" since bankruptcy for private citizens will be outlawed The primacy US is over, and Wall Street knows it. Their plan is to enslave all you fuckers through debt, prison and military service while playing 2nd fiddle to China and the BRICS You want your freedoms? You'd better get out in the streets and BLEED FOR IT
First, you are clearly only talking about US universities since with a few institutional exceptions, most universities outside the US are not awash with lots of money. Second, your statements are precisely opposed to one another. You want universities to be focussed on the dollar value of the benefit to students and then want them to worry more about education and less about being a business.
The problem with universities today are the plethora of pseudo-universities which have sprung up to fill the void left by declining school standards. These new institutions offer dubious qualifications at great expense to the student and/or the government funding them. They find willing students only because many employers no longer trust school qualifications and now require degrees, diplomas etc. for jobs which never used to require them. Funding them by what is effectively indentured servitude is just going to make things a lot worse.
We need to fix this by raising school standards to the point where employers can use them for a wide range of jobs. While this will cost money it will also save a lot of money by making these pseudo-universities unnecessary.
Subsidizing useful things like education (as opposed to US military homicide sprees) is part of being a civilised society.
Listen if you know your shit I'll hire your ass in a heart beat. Doesn't matter if you have no job experience or if you're a felon. You know how to program and have written something decent you can show me on github and I'll hire your ass.
Hi, this is your local HR representative. I am afraid I will have to deny your candidate due to not meeting the job requirements. Feel free to have us find the best candidate for you as we have to meet certain criteria to reduce turnover and firings dictated by the VP of HR.
Thanks
http://saveie6.com/
Student loans there's nothing to repossess. That made declaring bankruptcy in the past a very tempting position.(Get your degree, declare bankruptcy and they can't take the education out of your head.) Actually I remember hearing a story somewhere that triggered this change to make the secured was actually from a med student. They completed medical school and were starting residency. They did the math and saw if they declared bankruptcy that right as they finished their residency (where they'd finally start making the big bucks) the bankruptcy would be so old to not affect them financially. So since they didn't have a ton of money they figured, hey it's in my financial best interest to just declare bankruptcy since I have so little now creditors aren't going to get anything anyway.
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
You share your income with the state (taxes) and the state gives you free or very cheap universities.
The system also works for roads, highways, bridges, healthcare, pensions ...
You should try it some time.
Why don't you start with the coaches. They are consistently the highest paid staff in universities in every state of the US.
A lot of people seem to think coding is "easy" and don't realize how sometimes you can work VERY VERY long hours to meet deadlines. I have been working since 8 in the morning, and it's now past 9 in the evening, and yes, I am taking a break to eat and read some slashdot, but after that I am going back to work.
You should spend your time polishing your resume and finding a new job instead. Working those hours is a failure of management. Unless the management is changed (it won't be because you're delivering) then you'll see the same shit over and over again.
You have one life: don't waste it working heroic hours for an asshat.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
1) Schools are far too focused on athletics instead of academics. Most would think that the University President is the highest paid staff member. Nope - it's the football coach. Sometimes by a huge margin. I would submit that the football coach contributes nothing towards the academic advancement of the students. Worse than that, he only contributes directly to members of the football team. But he does help to bring in lots of money for the school so that sort of tells you where the priorities lie.
2) You cannot use bankruptcy to get out from under crushing student loans. Unlike almost any other kind of debt. You can walk away from a $1,000,000 mortgage but you can't walk away from $100,000 of student loans. Further, you have little to no leverage to negotiate payments. The lenders and schools know this, of course, which helps to explain the obscene profits made off the backs of students.
3) HR drones. Sadly they continue to be the gatekeepers to jobs. Most of them know nothing about the jobs they are screening for and simply follow a script and screen resumes for key words. I think that department managers should do the screening (with help from experts on their teams) to determine who gets interviewed and hired. HRs one and only role should be to prevent the company from being sued for harassment and misconduct. Roll out the yearly sexual harassment videos and put up posters when its time to sign up for benefits. Otherwise stay the fuck out of the way.
4) Degree requirements. Apart from occupations like Doctor, Lawyer, Architect, Structural Engineer, etc. I fail to see how a 4 year degree is necessary. All that matters in most cases is attitude and aptitude. Having a degree does not guarantee either of those qualities. I have worked with people with masters degrees that were as dumb as a bag of rocks. I have met really smart people, with and without degrees. Some companies are beginning to realize this by adding "in lieu of" clauses in the job description where they accept relevant experience in place of a degree so there is hope yet.
Feel free to add to the list :-)
Having been a student pretty recently (got my master's degree papers in 2016) what you're describing sounds way more like some rich trust fund kid than the average student.
The few of my fellow students that had cars were bangers used to commute from places barely served by public transport, nobody I knew actually owned their own apartment, daily "eating out" was just subsidized lunches at the school cafeteria, drinking was mostly at unlicensed student dives way cheaper than a regular bar and vacation trips were mostly to nearby cities to stay with friends or relatives living in them.
On top of that, people still worked on the side and particularly during the summers. Before I was able to get far along enough to be able to work in my own field during the summers I worked in construction during the summer and actually ended up having to delay my graduation because of working practically full time on the side while studying. A close friend of mine moonlighted as a security guard the whole time I knew him and actually liked the work.
Seriously thou, old people have complained about how young people are lazy, disrespectful and that we're doomed as a society because of them since at least Plato's times, but here we still are. Thus it's beyond obvious that new generations being worse than their predecessors isn't any less false than it was back in Plato's times.
"Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."