Python Language Founder Steps Down (zdnet.com)

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2018-07-12 08:03 · Score: 2, Interesting

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:(sic)?? by helpfulcorn · 2018-07-12 08:09 · Score: 1

I'm not sure why you're being modded down, I'm curious about this myself. Despise is a word, it's the proper spelling, it's not used incorrectly, it's in a grammatically correct position... so wtf [sic]?

Yup by Daetrin · 2018-07-12 08:09 · Score: 3, Funny

"Guido van Rossum, has decided he would like to remove myself entirely from the decision process"

Definitely sounds like a dictator! Or a poor editor! Or both!

--
This Space Intentionally Left Blank

Re:Yup by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 19:31 · Score: 0

He's just resting.

I'm forking it! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:12 · Score: 1

Please download and start using my new Python known as "Trouser Snake". It's exactly the same except
1 without all the obstinate gray beards on the board.
2 revision numbers will count down rather than up

Aw, poor little Juden shekelboy, lol... apk by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:12 · Score: -1

See subject: Don't worry - the "Golden Calf" of your shekels dries up! I give folks what they want vs. your machinations, lol & THUS I always will win... & you KNOW it.

* Heck - you're PROVING IT via your EASILY NULLIFIED "Bitch Tactics 'efforts'" which I easily prove are you in seconds by posting your PUNY threats... lmao!

(You really ARE too STUPID to live... time to FIRE UP THE OVENS again & Zyklon B showers).

Ever see Dr, Strange? Keep it up, that's EXACTLY what I want "JudenMammu" - you're MY prisoner.

LASTLY Don't speak for "Everyone" JUDE - you're the HATED minority ALL THRU HISTORY only fooling YOURSELVES, lol - self deluded morons & thieves.

APK

P.S.=> Dance little Jude, dance - to MY TUNE as I see you lose all that STOLEN GOLD/SHEKELS, lol - slowly (oh, SO slowly, painfully, as your kind fell into your OWN trap of debt, lol)... apk

We'll lose the first generation by Bruce+Perens · 2018-07-12 08:13 · Score: 5, Insightful

I'm 60, and yeah, health things creep up on you. We'll lose the first generation of Free Software / Open Source folks soon.

--
Bruce Perens.

Re:We'll lose the first generation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:20 · Score: 0

I'm 60, and yeah, health things creep up on you. We'll lose the first generation of Free Software / Open Source folks soon.
All hail RMS! Long live RMS!
Re: We'll lose the first generation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:35 · Score: 0

1st generation? You give yourself too much credit. You guys are more like 2nd generation. There was free software before you guys. And when you are long gone, Hopefully we will still have it.
Re:We'll lose the first generation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:42 · Score: 0

Well since we got rid of Net Neutrality and ISPs can reformat content how they please, we should get on the with the serious work of removing Viral Cancers like GNU pub lic. Then we won't need free software or open source.
Re:We'll lose the first generation by 110010001000 · 2018-07-12 08:44 · Score: 0

Neither life extension or space is going to happen, no matter how hard techies wish.
Re:We'll lose the first generation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:55 · Score: 0

Met him recently, he doesn't look great :\
Re:We'll lose the first generation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 09:00 · Score: 0

Met him recently, he doesn't look great :\
You could always fork a private copy. Even make it public if you want.
Re: We'll lose the first generation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 09:02 · Score: 0

Who says Bruce Perens is talking about himself.
He still has 20 years, that's not the generation "soon" to go.
Re: We'll lose the first generation by ChoGGi · 2018-07-12 09:14 · Score: 1, Insightful

First gen already started dying off
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Re:We'll lose the first generation by 110010001000 · 2018-07-12 09:30 · Score: 1

Don't worry. Most apps are free on the App Store now. Isn't that what you mean?
Re:We'll lose the first generation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 10:24 · Score: 1

Too bad you didn't back life extension and instead chose the space bandwagon.
At some point, people have to die. Life extension is immoral -- there are only so many people who can exist on this planet, and life extension is the old stealing from the young.
Re:We'll lose the first generation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 11:04 · Score: 0

You could always fuck a private copy. Even make it public if you want.
Nah thanks some things are better to stay in private.
Re: We'll lose the first generation by HiThere · 2018-07-12 13:31 · Score: 1

No. Open source is rather old, but Free Software didn't happen before the revision of the copyright laws that made essentially everything copyright. And Open Source happened in reaction to Free Software.
Things happen in time at a time for a reason...even if it isn't always clear what the reason is.

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:We'll lose the first generation by q_e_t · 2018-07-12 17:20 · Score: 1

I hope you'll be with us a good many years yet.
Re:We'll lose the first generation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 20:12 · Score: 0

"Life extension is immoral"
Then so are washing your hands before surgery and giving birth in hospitals.
Those immoral too?
Re: We'll lose the first generation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 20:56 · Score: 1

She was fantastic but not an open-source advocate...
Re:We'll lose the first generation by Joey+Vegetables · 2018-07-12 23:32 · Score: 1

Well, their/your legacy will certainly live on. There can be no doubt that FOSS has changed our world in ways that couldn't have even been imagined in the beginning. However, I'm 51 and in poor health, so probably in the same boat as you in terms of facing the inevitability that at some point this life does end for everyone. I hate that every year I have to go to more funerals, and often of people around my same age or even younger. My biggest fear is not of dying, but of outliving more and more of the people I care about.

--

Nonaggression works!
Re:We'll lose the first generation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-13 00:03 · Score: 0

To a surprisingly large degree, the open source movement has won. Some of us are old enough to remember when the idea of open source was niche, nice for some academics but would never make in the real world or support real projects. So, thanks for all you've done, Bruce.
(Aside to the obvious rejoinder: No, we're not where GNU people want us to be, but as someone who has written open source, closed source, free projects and commercial, I've never wanted to go there.)
Re: We'll lose the first generation by ChoGGi · 2018-07-13 04:41 · Score: 1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
I'd say she was an early version of that, but then I guess we could make the same argument about Ford.

Meanwhile in Perl land... by Mal-2 · 2018-07-12 08:13 · Score: 5, Funny

Meanwhile in Perl land, the founders have tried to step down multiple times, but nobody could read their resignation letters.

--
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.

Re:Meanwhile in Perl land... by Bruce+Perens · 2018-07-12 08:15 · Score: 4, Funny

Fortunately for them, there's more than one way to do it!

--
Bruce Perens.
Re:Meanwhile in Perl land... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · 2018-07-12 08:23 · Score: 1

Meanwhile in Perl land, the founders have tried to step down multiple times, but nobody could read their resignation letters.
That's not true. The resignation letters included the phrase "and whomever reads this inherits our responsibilities" so everyone pretends they don't understand.

--
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Re:Meanwhile in Perl land... by DCFusor · 2018-07-12 08:33 · Score: 2

I think they now just call perl6 Rakudo, rather than the idiocy of having two incompatible languages of the same name like python. And it seems Larry is more or less out of implementation altogether - just a spiritual leader now.

--
Why guess when you can know? Measure!
Re:Meanwhile in Perl land... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 09:29 · Score: 0

Meanwhile, in lisp-land...
(car (cdr (cons (QUIT ((( *I* )!)!)!)))))
Warning: Error
Re:Meanwhile in Perl land... by freeze128 · 2018-07-12 13:49 · Score: 1

Then how do you know they tried to step down?
Re:Meanwhile in Perl land... by Charlotte · 2018-07-12 16:28 · Score: 1

All of them obfuscated!
Re:Meanwhile in Perl land... by skovnymfe · 2018-07-14 23:52 · Score: 1

Not everyone is an idiot who can't read.

Re:(sic)?? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:15 · Score: 0

van Rossum is Dutch, and they spell it as "verachten".

Salute to you Sir! by Qbertino · 2018-07-12 08:16 · Score: 4, Insightful

Thank you for the wonderful language. Someone who devotes such significant portions of his life to the greater good deserves respect. I also hope he has long years and a healthy life to live ahead of him and can watch his baby grown and mature even further. Python is a beautiful language, IT would be poorer without it.

--
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca

Re:Salute to you Sir! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:44 · Score: 0, Troll

Yes, IT would be poorer from the non-refactorable and unmaintainable garbage that gets spewed out by Python "coders". Thanks for the total lack of type safety too.
Re:Salute to you Sir! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 09:22 · Score: 0

I enjoy reading and writing Python and make much of my living from it. You can tell a lot of thought was put into it so I'll echo your thanks as well.
Re:Salute to you Sir! by DCFusor · 2018-07-12 11:44 · Score: 1

If you make a language simple enough that monkies can do it, you'll get monkey code. Many outfits never figured this out in their quest to find a way to get morons to code for moron pay.

--
Why guess when you can know? Measure!
Re:Salute to you Sir! by drinkypoo · 2018-07-12 12:24 · Score: 3, Insightful

IT would be poorer without it.
Yeah, what would we do without code samples whose flow is destroyed by copying and pasting them from webpages? That's really improved my life!

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Salute to you Sir! by Pseudonym · 2018-07-12 12:34 · Score: 4, Interesting

You can tell a lot of thought was put into Python, but almost exactly none of that thought came from anyone who knew more than a couple of programming languages. Python reimplements many of the mistakes of the past, and not very well.
IT would indeed be poorer without Python. There's a whole cottage industry in getting rich from fixing broken Python code.

--
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
Re:Salute to you Sir! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 15:03 · Score: 1

It's designed that way to stop people like you who program by copying and pasting things from web pages from programming in Python. We don't want to hear you come complain when it doesn't run.
Re:Salute to you Sir! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 17:19 · Score: 0

Compared to the lack of cottage industries fixing code in literally every other language, right genius?
Re:Salute to you Sir! by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 17:44 · Score: 0

On websites whose makers or users haven't discovered the existence of preformatted text yet, you mean? I consider a communication medium that mutilates messages to be defective, not the messages that are being mutilated.
Re:Salute to you Sir! by Pseudonym · 2018-07-12 18:00 · Score: 1

Yeah, I make a living fixing Haskell code written by morons.

--
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
Re:Salute to you Sir! by Joey+Vegetables · 2018-07-12 23:34 · Score: 1

I think you meant monkies [sic].

--

Nonaggression works!
Re:Salute to you Sir! by drinkypoo · 2018-07-13 01:24 · Score: 3, Insightful

I consider a communication medium that mutilates messages to be defective, not the messages that are being mutilated.
If the same thing happens to a piece of C code, a) it still works and b) you can run it through indent to get back something human-understandable. Python has to exist in the real world where things like this happen. The people who defend this characteristic of Python clearly do not live where the rest of us live.
We used character position to control flow by putting things in columns on the older computers. Then we stopped doing that, and it was a significant advance. Then Python started doing it again.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Salute to you Sir! by Raenex · 2018-07-13 04:02 · Score: 1

If the same thing happens to a piece of C code, a) it still works and b) you can run it through indent to get back something human-understandable. Python has to exist in the real world where things like this happen. The people who defend this characteristic of Python clearly do not live where the rest of us live.
It's amusing that you choose C to bash this particular aspect of Python with. In the real world, C is prone to all sorts of all-too-common human errors, including bugs that results from code not matching the semantics implied by indentation.
C defendants have always put the onus on the programmer, the need for more training or higher quality programmers. But here you are passing final judgment on Python because of what amounts to an annoyance.
Re:Salute to you Sir! by drinkypoo · 2018-07-13 04:57 · Score: 1

C defendants have always put the onus on the programmer, the need for more training or higher quality programmers. But here you are passing final judgment on Python because of what amounts to an annoyance.
Python doesn't stop people from writing poor-quality code, and meanwhile, this "annoyance" has caused me problems personally — before even trying to use Python for anything serious. I'm glad I learned my lesson at that point. I'm only sad that so many people have based their projects on Python, because it means that they have subjected many others to their madness.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Salute to you Sir! by Raenex · 2018-07-13 05:19 · Score: 1

Python doesn't stop people from writing poor-quality code
No language does, but it does prevent code where indentation does not match semantics. Beyond that, there are many, many C-style errors that are avoided in languages like Python, errors that traditional C apologists shrug aside and make noises about programmers not blaming their tools.

'm only sad that so many people have based their projects on Python, because it means that they have subjected many others to their madness.
*snort* Keep on ignoring the madness of C.
Re:Salute to you Sir! by drinkypoo · 2018-07-13 05:30 · Score: 1

*snort* Keep on ignoring the madness of C.
C and its descendants have good reasons for their insanity, like backwards compatibility, and efficiency. Python has no good reasons for its insanity, especially since its creator should have been able to learn from other languages' failings, and from computing history. People are constantly reimplementing Unix poorly because of their failure to understand it; this is an example of the same kind of thinking.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Re:Salute to you Sir! by Hognoxious · 2018-07-13 05:38 · Score: 1

No language does, but it does prevent code where indentation does not match semantics.
Indentation shouldn't need to match semantics. That's what punctuation is for.
Indentation is for the benefit of humans. If your semantics is defined by something sensible like { }, if fi, begin end or whatever - doing one thing and doing it properly - then it's a trivial matter to run it though a lovely lister to get any indentation that any particular human desires.
P.S. Bagging on the GP for choosing C as an example is pathetic. He could have pretty much chosen any other language and his point would still be valid.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Re:Salute to you Sir! by Raenex · 2018-07-13 05:57 · Score: 1

Indentation shouldn't need to match semantics. That's what punctuation is for. Indentation is for the benefit of humans.
Err, since the presentation of the code is for humans, to allow bugs due to human-prone errors that can trivially be disallowed is nonsensical. You could keep the punctuation and disallow for the misleading indentation. Obviously Python eschewed that option, but let's not pretend that buggy code should be tolerated if we can avoid it trivially by the compiler.

P.S. Bagging on the GP for choosing C as an example is pathetic.
No, what's pathetic is using C as your comparison, when C is so demonstrably bad.
Re:Salute to you Sir! by Raenex · 2018-07-13 06:09 · Score: 1

C and its descendants have good reasons for their insanity, like backwards compatibility, and efficiency.
The backwards compatibility is understandable, which basically says the multitude of bug-prone design choices are enshrined into the language forever. The efficiency reasons are overused as an excuse for a language that is pretty terrible with regards to consistency or avoidable bug-prone design decisions.

Python has no good reasons for its insanity
Actually, the bug-prone issues of languages like C where semantics does not match presentation is one of the reasons Python chose the path it did, so it's quite funny that you choose C to bash Python with in this example. C is considered a liberation from the tyranny of rigid indents, but it brought its own problems.
I personally would have preferred if Python kept the braces but disallowed misleading indentation, but I'm not going to dismiss the entirety of the language over that one issue.
Re:Salute to you Sir! by Hognoxious · 2018-07-13 19:15 · Score: 1

I can "trivially disallow" nesting errors by counting +1 for each { and -1 for each }.
Of course, you introduce a new class of errors by having space+tab and tab+space look the same but not be considered so by the compiler.
I don't deny that C has faults but they're irrelevant to the matter at hand, which is that making indentation significant is crap. Pretend it says pascal bash if it makes you feel better. Seems you need it.

--
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Re:Salute to you Sir! by Raenex · 2018-07-13 21:06 · Score: 1

I can "trivially disallow" nesting errors by counting +1 for each { and -1 for each }.
You mean you're going to manually do that every time you look at a piece of code, and ignore the indentation? No, you're not. That's why bugs exist because of misleading indentation.

Of course, you introduce a new class of errors by having space+tab and tab+space look the same but not be considered so by the compiler.
I agree, I do not like Python's implementation. I think they should have disallowed mixing of spaces and tabs. Of course, when it comes to reading code, C (or pick your favorite language) has always had trouble with tabs vs. spaces.

I don't deny that C has faults but they're irrelevant to the matter at hand, which is that making indentation significant is crap.
It's relevant, because C was used to dismiss Python as a language on a single issue in which C has its own problems, including many more. If you act like a hypocrite, as "drinkypoo" did, I'll point it out.

Steps down? by Oswald+McWeany · 2018-07-12 08:20 · Score: 1

He steps down.

If I recall my childhood correctly, he could have just slid down a python instead.

--
"That's the way to do it" - Punch

Re:Steps down? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 11:23 · Score: 0

He steps down.
If I recall my childhood correctly, he could have just slid down a python instead.
I guess your childhood included lots of episodes of sliding down a "python" huh.

Time to bail out by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:21 · Score: 1, Insightful

SJW takeover in 3....2.......

Re: Time to bail out by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 10:25 · Score: 0

Well they can f*rk it. If they take over, I quit.
Re:Time to bail out by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 10:46 · Score: 0

Python 4: Now with Diversity enforced by Code of Conduct
I, for one, welcome our Transactivist SJW Overlords! There's no place for Patriarchy in Python! Die CIS scum!
Re:Time to bail out by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-13 00:58 · Score: 0

Die CIS scum!
CIS scum is the scum that lives in CIS, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/....
You are thinking of cis scum.

Re:(sic)?? by rjzak · 2018-07-12 08:22 · Score: 0

A quick Google search yielded this: "adverb - used in brackets after a copied or quoted word that appears odd or erroneous to show that the word is quoted exactly as it stands in the original, as in a story must hold a child's interest and “enrich his [ sic ] life.”."

--
Professional Genius

Questions and observations by Futurepower(R) · 2018-07-12 08:22 · Score: -1

Are there any computer languages that are well-designed and well-documented?

Why was there enthusiasm for Python? It seems to me that now there is less enthusiasm for Python. Is that correct?

I can remember when Pascal was popular. Then, about 2 years later, Pascal was dead.

Why do programmers adopt new languages so enthusiastically? Is that an interesting hobby?

The Next Big Programming Language You've Never Heard Of (July 7, 2014) Quote: "People are constantly creating new programming languages, but because the software world is already saturated with so many if them, the new ones rarely get used by more than a handful of coders..."

Re:Questions and observations by Yosho · 2018-07-12 08:29 · Score: 5, Informative

Are there any computer languages that are well-designed and well-documented?
"Well-designed" is purely a matter of opinion, and I'd say there are many that are well-documented. To be fair, there's a distinction between language documentation and standard library documentation, and sometimes library documentation can be a bit lacking -- but there are still many that are excellent.

Why was there enthusiasm for Python? It seems to me that now there is less enthusiasm for Python. Is that correct?
Python is the second most popular language on GitHub and its popularity has been climbing yearly. There are many reasons why there's enthusiasm for it, and they're mostly personal opinions, but many people would tell you the reasons they like Python are the speed of development, intuitive language syntax, a comprehensive standard library, and massive numbers of open source libraries.

Why do programmers adopt new languages so enthusiastically? Is that an interesting hobby?

Yes, actually, designing and learning new languages is fun for many people.

--
Karma: Terrifying (mostly affected by atrocities you've committed)
Re: Questions and observations by TJHook3r · 2018-07-12 08:31 · Score: 4, Insightful

Python is incredibly popular due mainly to flexibility and ease of use. It's taught in schools so I imagine it will only keep growing although Guido leaving is a bit of a blow.
Re:Questions and observations by 110010001000 · 2018-07-12 08:43 · Score: 0, Troll

The only languages worth learning at this point is C/C++ (system programming) and Python (interpreted).
Re:Questions and observations by bongey · 2018-07-12 08:50 · Score: 0

Python has a Global Interpreter Lock problem that slows down multiprocessing significantly and it hasn't been solved. https://wiki.python.org/moin/G...
Re: Questions and observations by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:51 · Score: 0

I would disagree with "well designed" but it is being taught in schools so I agree with your conclusions. Python will be with us for a long time yet.
My issue with python is the use of indentation and blank lines as a part of the syntax. That crap went out of vogue with Fortran... I learned to program in Pascal and C so I don't find Python easily readable (bring back the semicolon and curly braces please), but it's a necessary evil to get paid so I use it and slap a smile on my face and use the tools I'm given.
Re:Questions and observations by unimacs · 2018-07-12 08:52 · Score: 2

There's not a lot that's completely new. Maybe it's just me but it seems like most "new" languages I see bear a strong resemblance to one or another old one. So why the new ones? They aim to fix some weaknesses that existed in the older languages. Python to me seems likes a reaction to the arcane and messy world of perl scripts.

Lots of stuff is borrowed and this helps adoption rates.

And yes, I do think a lot of programmers enjoy learning new languages.
Re:Questions and observations by Pinky's+Brain · 2018-07-12 08:59 · Score: 2

Python improved on the existing scripting languages, but it fucked up the v2 to v3 transition and lost some momentum in the process. It's still the most popular scripting language ignoring javascript, so I don't see a lack of staying power. Pascal simply lost to C, they competed in a single niche and winner takes all.
I don't think your perception of how fast the field moves is accurate.
Re:Questions and observations by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 09:00 · Score: 0

Java tries to appear well-designed by following popular patterns for abstracting and encapsulating behaviour. It's probably the best-documented language out there. I still hate it.
Re: Questions and observations by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 09:41 · Score: 0

Wtf.. there is no problem multiprocessing in python...
ThreadProcess
A different matter is the use of multiple threads (!=process) on cpu bound operations.
Re:Questions and observations by jeff4747 · 2018-07-12 10:23 · Score: 3, Informative

Python has a Global Interpreter Lock problem that slows down multiprocessing significantly and it hasn't been solved.
Hasn't been solved....except in every implementation that isn't CPython. If your code really needs to not have the GIL, run it in IronPython or Jython or any of the others.
Also, if your code is that performance-critical, an interpreted language is not a good idea.
Re:Questions and observations by Tough+Love · 2018-07-12 10:44 · Score: 2

It seems to me that now there is less enthusiasm for Python. Is that correct?
Python has longstanding performance issues that the project governance has declined to address, giving a big boost to more sensible/responsive projects like Go. And the mandatory whitespace is just idiotic, sorry but it is. Plus scoping is crappy and if you want to do static typing, sorry you just can't.

--
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Re: Questions and observations by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 11:36 · Score: 0

Yeah, 100% of the python I've written was for online classes.
It is a great language for that; I would not want them to switch to one of my favorite languages, because it would increase the number of language-related questions in the student forums, when really the questions should be about the subject matter of the class.
And for similar reasons, I wouldn't want to use it in a real project.
Re:Questions and observations by Aighearach · 2018-07-12 11:41 · Score: 0

You can't have a high level language that supports threading and is also easy to use unless you have a GIL. Or at least, if we presume that you absolutely have to have a C/C++ interface for libraries, then you need a GIL to have threads. Otherwise you'd have to make it not allowed to use non-thread-safe code in libraries, and how would you even enforce that? Users won't blame the library, they'll blame the language that is trying to call the library. Rightfully, when everybody else avoids the problems by implementing a GIL.
If you use traditional *NIX fork/exec pattern instead of threads, then the GIL doesn't get in the way. The problem is mostly if you want to stuff a bunch of different processes inside of one process, Java style. Then you'll need to work harder, and that will remain true in any modern high level interpreted language.
Re: Questions and observations by Bing+Tsher+E · 2018-07-12 11:42 · Score: 1

My issue with python is the use of indentation and blank lines as a part of the syntax. That crap went out of vogue with Fortran...
Do you know much about FORTRAN?
FORTRAN was structured such that each line fit on an 80 column punched card. It's sort of a modern anomaly to code FORTRAN with a full screen editor. Historically, it was coded in handwriting on grid paper forms with 80 boxes for the characters of each line of code. You wrote the code by hand, then turned it in to a keypunch operator.
Programmers who wanted to punch their own code would stick around until office hours were over to get access to the keypunch in person. There were actual manual card punch tools to slide a punch mandrel back and forth over an individual card to 'fix' an individual line of code in the deck without having to wait for access to the cardpunch. Yes, the program's primary form of storage was a deck of cards. Don't drop your deck!
Comparing python to fortran is a bit silly.
And yes, obviously modern FORTRAN is different.
Re: Questions and observations by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 11:51 · Score: 0

You can terminate lines with semicolons if you like. You can also add commented braces at the appropriate points if it makes it easier to read. For example:
for __ in range(2):
#{
print("Hi");
print("Ho");
#}
print("It's off to work we go.");
I'd recommend against this for published work because it will make your code more difficult to read for most people and "Readability counts" but you could write a script to add/remove this syntactic sugar.
Re: Questions and observations by Pseudonym · 2018-07-12 13:02 · Score: 2

Or to put it another way, Python is the 8-bit interpreted BASIC of the 21st century.

--
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
Re:Questions and observations by Pseudonym · 2018-07-12 13:05 · Score: 2

Remind me never to hire you.

--
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
Re:Questions and observations by Pseudonym · 2018-07-12 13:14 · Score: 2

You can't have a high level language that supports threading and is also easy to use unless you have a GIL. Or at least, if we presume that you absolutely have to have a C/C++ interface for libraries, then you need a GIL to have threads.
Rubbish. Even for extremely simplistic implementations, you don't need a GIL where a "global foreign function interface lock" would suffice.
Most C and C++ libraries are thread safe (for some definition of "thread safe") these days, and any non-toy language with a C foreign function interface can cope with this just fine. This is doubly true of declarative languages, which tend to go to a lot of trouble to ensure that you can call pure functions in C with no locking overhead.

--
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
Re:Questions and observations by 110010001000 · 2018-07-12 13:22 · Score: 1, Funny

Don't hire me. I've seen your sig.
Re:Questions and observations by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 13:33 · Score: 0

It doesn't slow down multiprocessing at all unless you're doing heavy computation in Python in multiple threads of the same process. It's not a problem in the most common instances of using threads - I/O bound tasks, waiting for network events or calls to external libraries written in other languages, etc. It does invert a common trend in other languages and environments that have a managed event loop (that you generally don't touch) and thread pools for event handlers, where actual logic goes, but even that model is trivial and high-performance in Python with libraries like gevent and frameworks like Django, if a bit fatter in resource overhead.
And if you really, really want to do heavy computation in near-native Python with decent performance, using Cython is a good idea to avoid interpreter overhead. As an added bonus, it has a "nogil" construct so multithreaded code that won't touch Python interpreter objects can run without acquiring the lock.
Re: Questions and observations by HiThere · 2018-07-12 13:40 · Score: 1

You could also add a macro preprocessor. I've considered doing this for documentation purposes, but actually Doxygen is good enough. Sphinx, however, was a terrible choice, and pydoc generates eye-tearingly horrible html. (This is a pity as it's ancestor for Python 2, Epydoc, was my favorite documentation tool for Python. )

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Re:Questions and observations by Pseudonym · 2018-07-12 13:46 · Score: 4, Interesting

And the mandatory whitespace is just idiotic, sorry but it is.
Python just implements it badly. Nobody complains about mandatory whitespace in Haskell, partly because it doesn't have Python's rough edges, and partly because it isn't strictly mandatory.

--
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
Re:Questions and observations by Pseudonym · 2018-07-12 13:49 · Score: 1

Let's just say I've had that sig for a while.

--
sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
Re:Questions and observations by steveha · 2018-07-12 15:47 · Score: 2

Python improved on the existing scripting languages, but it fucked up the v2 to v3 transition and lost some momentum in the process.
It's true that the 2 to 3 transition didn't go as smoothly as hoped. I'm not sure I agree that the Python devs messed up the transition. Maybe nobody could have done a better job, and I do think the changes were worth doing.
Python 3.x was an opportunity to make "breaking" changes to Python: to make changes that would break old Python 2.x programs. Using this opportunity, the Python devs cleaned up the language.
Some method functions returned lists, others returned iterators... now in Python 3.x everything returns iterators, because it's trivial to turn an iterator into a list. So your programs are "lazy" by default, and there's less cognitive overhead. Win/win.
I'm fond of the change where 1 / 2 returns 0.5 instead of returning 0. It's a bit surprising that integer division can return a float result, but it's even more surprising to most people for nonzero numbers to produce a zero result.
I'm also fond of the way Python 3.x forces I/O to handle Unicode conversion, so a 3.x program either fails instantly the first time you test it or else runs reliably. The Python 2.x "feature" of letting you ignore Unicode, then randomly blowing up later, was enough to make me eager to make the switch.
So IMHO the changes were well thought-out and I approve of them. But they were changes. The real problem is that Python 2.x is a pretty sweet language, so staying with it was pretty attractive. There would be nonzero pain to migrate to Python 3.x, so doing nothing was an attractive choice.
But over time the various popular libraries were converted to be Python 3 compatible, and the Python devs kept adding improvements, and now basically everyone agrees that Python 3.6 and newer are the best Python versions ever.
It's free software and someone could have forked the sources for Python 2.7 and backported features from Python 3.x; but nobody loved Python 2.x that much. Grumbling and inertia yes, actual work to keep Python 2.x viable no.
Pascal simply lost to C, they competed in a single niche and winner takes all.
I agree 100%. There was nothing Pascal did that C couldn't do, and do better. In the early days C was much less type-safe but that was fixable and has been fixed.
C is the king of the third-generation languages and is unlikely to be displaced in the foreseeable future.

--
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Re:Questions and observations by steveha · 2018-07-12 16:01 · Score: 2

Python has longstanding performance issues
Fair enough. It's much slower than even Java, let alone languages like C. (But it can use libraries written in compiled languages like C and Fortran so it can be extremely fast in specific domains.)
that the project governance has declined to address
You say that as if the Python devs are refusing to do something that would be easy. The latest versions of Python are faster and more memory-efficient than earlier versions of Python. The design of the language makes it hard to really optimize so there aren't easy performance gains just waiting for someone to make them.
The fastest Python is PyPy, and that's fast because it has a JIT that compiles your code's hot spots into native code. It isn't that fast until the JIT kicks in.
And the mandatory whitespace is just idiotic, sorry but it is.
You're entitled to your opinion, but please don't give your opinion as if it were a fact. Some people, such as me, like the fact that if code looks like it's part of a block, it actually is part of a block. I don't think that's "just idiotic". You're free to hate it and I won't try to convince you.
Plus scoping is crappy
I have no idea what you are complaining about here.
if you want to do static typing, sorry you just can't.
Actually, you can. Python 3.x supports "type annotations" which let you document the types that various values should be, and there are static checkers that make sure your programs conform to the annotations.
The static checking is not built-in to Python itself, so you could say that Python "enables" static type checking without "providing" it. But to say that "you just can't" do it is a mistake.
By the way, the history of type annotations is IMHO interesting. Guido van Rossum found out that multiple large organizations (Google, Microsoft, etc.) were making their own ad-hoc static type annotations, requiring standardized comments that documented the types. He applied the principle that "there should be one, and preferably only one, obvious way to do it" and added type annotations to the language spec.
The static type checker still works in Python 2.x if you use appropriate comments.
http://mypy-lang.org/

--
lf(1): it's like ls(1) but sorts filenames by extension, tersely
Re:Questions and observations by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 20:06 · Score: 0

run it in IronPython or Jython or any of the others.
Great Idea. Sadly CPython exposes a lot of implementation details, so a lot of libraries and applications written against it cannot be run with anything else.Worse for programs that link against native libraries since (C)Pythons native C API exposes the implementation specific structure of objects and classes fully.
Re:Questions and observations by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 23:47 · Score: 0

This is incorrect. GIL has no effect on multiPROCESSing. Only multiTHREADing. Python multiPROCESSING capabilities are fine and well. In fact, it even has threading capabilities, it's just that it locks the THREADS so that only one is run in parallel.
Which is also a bit moot point. coroutines (or locking on IO wait) have frequently proved to be equally performant but with far simpler implementations.
Re:Questions and observations by Joey+Vegetables · 2018-07-13 00:03 · Score: 1

Everyone is slamming this comment, and I myself don't fully agree with it, but I think the OP has a point. If you have a lower-level language that can scale up to a degree, *and* a higher-level language that can interface with it, then you get the best of both worlds. Where I disagree is that I don't know that C, C++, or Python are always going to be the best choices in all circumstances.

--

Nonaggression works!
Re:Questions and observations by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-13 00:16 · Score: 0

Are there any computer languages that are well-designed...?
No. There are only well-designed languages for a particular set of purposes. There will be many people for whom any language will be too complicated, too big, insufficiently type safe (or too type safe), too inflexible (or too rigid), etc.
Python is a very good language for some things. It's powerful, flexible, has incredible library support, etc. it's also a terrible language for some things. The white-space thing, no type safety, odd conversions, and, dear god, I hate their stack traces.

Why was there enthusiasm for Python? It seems to me that now there is less enthusiasm for Python. Is that correct?
Second question first: not that I have noticed. Why the enthusiasm? For me, because of pandas, numpy, scipy, matplotlib, pytorch, theano, and, especially, jupyter. It makes it so that I can do data ingestion, manipulation, machine learning, and display, in a simple, comprehensible, and flexible way.
Re:Questions and observations by apoc.famine · 2018-07-13 02:20 · Score: 1

Why do programmers adopt new languages so enthusiastically? Is that an interesting hobby?

Why are you on this site? How did you get here? Why do you stay?
I'm really serious. How did you become a /. poster/reader with a moderately low UID while seemingly being totally unfamiliar with programmers?

--
Velociraptor = Distiraptor / Timeraptor
Re:Questions and observations by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-13 02:34 · Score: 0

Clearly you have not seen the multiprocessing library: https://docs.python.org/3.4/library/multiprocessing.html?highlight=process . I use it regularly and it works very well.
Re:Questions and observations by dbrueck · 2018-07-13 03:43 · Score: 1

Yeah, overall I'm not a fan of the GIL, but I think this kinda misses a some of what the GIL provides - it's a bit more than thread safety inside a function library or around an FFI call. The GIL makes it so you can't corrupt the internal state of the VM including high level data structures like dictionaries and objects.
For example you can have any number of threads concurrently reading and writing to dictionary, sets, custom objects, arrays, etc. without any sort of explicit locking and it doesn't crash, there are no memory leaks, and your data structures don't get turned into corrupted garbage. And this happens automatically with pure Python code, regardless of whether it's built in, you wrote it, or it's from some third party.
So the cost of this feature is crazy high - sometimes too high - but it's not without its benefits.
Re:Questions and observations by dbrueck · 2018-07-13 03:48 · Score: 1

Your 2->3 experience sounds similar to mine... lots of good changes were introduced with 3.x. I stayed with 2.x for a long time because it just worked really well. And I still have a few projects that are on 2, but at some point when starting a new project I just used Python 3 for it, and by then every library I needed had already been converted.
Honestly, the biggest hurdle was muscle memory on debug prints (statement vs function call), haha.
Re:Questions and observations by ath1901 · 2018-07-13 08:29 · Score: 1

For me it was the relative imports. I want to shift to Py3 but haven't. At first it seemed like a great thing but then it turns out you must distinguish between scripts and modules. You get this long list of ways imports can either work or not work depending on things.
First, I like relative imports. I move stuff around (files and directories) and I don't want to update imports more than necessary. If moving stuff is hard, I don't do it and the code suffers.
Second, I like adding small run scripts at the end of all files which run the unit tests (or manual tests or both). This way I can configure most simple text editors to just "execute the current file" to run the relevant tests. No IDE necessary. Also, it provides a direct link between the module and the module specific tests so I don't run more tests than necessary. Most IDEs and test runners can't do that with just a quick keyboard shortcut but tend to run all tests or require a lot of key pressing to "select" the right tests.
In python 3, I can't combine the two wishes above. Ten years after Py3 and I still haven't decided what to do about it. Either, accept always using absolute imports OR never execute a module. Guido said at some point that mixing executable scripts with modules was an antipattern but I do not agree. It means the language can do things you would normally need an IDE for. Batteries included.
All in all though. Python is fantastic and the proof is in the libraries from pandas to all that webstuff. Thanks Guido!
Re:Questions and observations by Aighearach · 2018-07-13 09:23 · Score: 1

Thank you for the good explanation of additional details.
Just wanted to reiterate that the cost is only high, and in fact only even exists, when using threading within a single process; using the unix style of fork/exec leaves the GIL not even having a cost at all.
Generally the language designers assume that if you care about performance, you can do it the old way painlessly, but if you don't care about performance, you shouldn't even have to worry about it. And a GIL provides for both of these situations.
Re:Questions and observations by Tony+Isaac · 2018-07-13 13:57 · Score: 1

Are there any computer languages that are well-designed and well-documented?
C# might not be popular on slashdot, but it is well-designed and incredibly well-documented.
Re:Questions and observations by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-13 15:25 · Score: 0

"Well-designed" is purely a matter of opinion
Bullshit.
A well-designed language has a well-defined definition. Thing like regularity and orthogonality and the like.
You wouldn't know because you are a self-trained monkey, thus totally ignorant.
numbnuts
Re:Questions and observations by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-13 15:59 · Score: 0

Java uses native threads, numbnuts
Re: Questions and observations by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-14 08:36 · Score: 0

Yeah. I hate when these self "thougt" idiot know nothings act as if their advanced engineers. Half of them can not even give the definition of alfa reduction...

out of the loop by bugs2squash · 2018-07-12 08:23 · Score: 5, Funny

Stepping down is no good, to truly be out of the loop you have to un-indent.

--
Nullius in verba

Re:out of the loop by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:55 · Score: 0

You sir, get my vote for the joke of the day... Well played, well played indeed.
I think he does what to keep tabs on it though.
Re:out of the loop by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 10:09 · Score: 0

You sir, get my vote for the joke of the day... Well played, well played indeed.
I think he does what to keep tabs on it though.
Is he switching from spaces to tabs?? Maybe that's why he's running away!

Unfortunately ... by fahrbot-bot · 2018-07-12 08:24 · Score: 1

... it's still unclear if the space (or tab) Van Rossum leaves, by removing himself from the Python Language decision process, will make things easier parse.

--
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .

TESP: Backspaces instead of indents by goombah99 · 2018-07-12 08:24 · Score: 4, Funny

TrouserSnake Improovmet Proposal #0001: Because of the confusion caused by the inconsistent use and display rendering of White space Tabs versus spaces, the proposed change is to use backspaces to denote block clauses. A further extension of this proposal is to center justify all lines of text. This will end the discrimination of the left justification hegemony that disenfranchises cultures the practice Left justification. Center justification is fair and "just".

--
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.

Re: TESP: Backspaces instead of indents by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 09:14 · Score: 0

cultures the (sic) practice
Re: TESP: Backspaces instead of indents by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 16:53 · Score: 0

This will end the discrimination of the left justification hegemony that disenfranchises cultures the practice Left justification. Center justification is fair and "just".
This sounds more like Rust's than Python's community.

I'm the new dictator by 110010001000 · 2018-07-12 08:25 · Score: 4, Funny

I've taken over Python from Guido. My first edict will be to require that only tabs be used for whitespace. This will save valuable disk space. No complaints allowed. I am also assigning APK as my vice-dictator.

Re:I'm the new dictator by Oswald+McWeany · 2018-07-12 08:32 · Score: 1

I've taken over Python from Guido. My first edict will be to require that only tabs be used for whitespace. This will save valuable disk space. No complaints allowed. I am also assigning APK as my vice-dictator.
If you're saving disk space does that mean "{" should never be placed on a new line.

--
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Re:I'm the new dictator by 110010001000 · 2018-07-12 08:39 · Score: 4, Funny

Good thinking. You will be my other vice-dictator in charge of the Code of Conduct for the language.
Re: I'm the new dictator by TimMD909 · 2018-07-12 08:47 · Score: 0

{ looks too much like a sideways vagina, or so I'm told. Apparently are the proper delimiters.
Re:I'm the new dictator by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:49 · Score: 0

Here's a scary thought: what if APK was appointed as the next US president? Would it piss off the left or the right? both?
Re: I'm the new dictator by mejustme · 2018-07-12 10:11 · Score: 0

Apparently are the proper delimiters.
Apparently < & > are the proper delimiters.
Fixed that for you.
Re: I'm the new dictator by NeoMorphy · 2018-07-12 12:11 · Score: 1

{ is"left titty" and } is "right titty".
Re: I'm the new dictator by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 13:52 · Score: 0

The word is "vulva".
Re:I'm the new dictator by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 15:49 · Score: -1

You jest but I hate that shit. I rarely ever put the close brace, bracket, or parenthesis on a separate line. It drives a bunch of the autistic nerds insane, but fuck em. I have even taken to sending my code to someone who gives a fuck about "style" to fix it so the CVS will accept it. Example:
You'll probably end up with:
If(a){d=b+c}
or maybe you'll get a
if(a){
d=b+c}
but what you will not get is
if(
a
)
{
d=b+c
}
You'll also get one block comment per section with a general description of what's going on. If you can't look at the code and figure it out within a couple minutes, you don't need to be touching my software. You're stupid and you'll break the robots. I'm not holding your hand.
Finally I'm sure someone, maybe yourself, will be like oooo we got an internet badass over here, but when you're the sole person who can get the product line working satisfactorily, you get to call your own shots. I also dictate what hours I'm at the office and which meetings I feel like going to. I've even begged the bastards to hire a couple n00bs for me to train so I can get the fuck outta here but they're ok with me being a dick because I make money.
Re: I'm the new dictator by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 16:17 · Score: 0

I thought it was: ( . Y . )
Re: I'm the new dictator by Oswald+McWeany · 2018-07-13 01:15 · Score: 1

{ is"left titty" and } is "right titty".
A good rule of thumb is you always need as many left ones as right ones .

--
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Re:I'm the new dictator by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-13 03:21 · Score: 0

Assistant to the Dictator, got it. Do you need an Assistant Dictator?

Re:(sic)?? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:30 · Score: -1

What's the "sic" for?

What's really sic is the way you suck a nígger penis.

TSIP #0002: Font usage for improved context. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:30 · Score: 1

I suggest that "Bolding", "italic", and blinking font should be used to distinguish static, class, and method functions.
ALL CAPS can be used for INTERFACES and VIRTUAL CLASSES.

Comment removed by account_deleted · 2018-07-12 08:31 · Score: -1

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:(sic)?? by mikael · 2018-07-12 08:33 · Score: 1, Redundant

"sic" means mis-spelling or incorrect grammar reprinted as originally transcribed.

--
Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads

Who the hell... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:37 · Score: 0

...is this Guido?

Seek & DESTROY - Metallica by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:37 · Score: -1

Khazar Talmudic Jews believe this of all they call goyim/gentiles (any non-jew): Jews = biggest racists of all (for which they "jew guilt" you for no less! They're hypocrites known as thieves all thru history or were Argentines in the 1940 under Peron, Spanish inquistion, France (1306), Egypt (despoiled/robbed by jews), Arabs (pre & post 1948), England (1330 Edward longshanks), Romans under titus, Russia pogroms and Germany who got rid of them from their nations nazi german's too? No. Driven into DESERTS ages ago! Don't wonder why after all those exilings above.

Should anyone doubt any of this see Jacob Javits' crony Rosenthal spill the beans on it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4zMVZ8HnFI/ where he called all Christianity fools for helping Israel and the biggest scam of all time per their beliefs below from their Talmud.

This is the province of the synagogue of Satan (Pharisees whom Jesus Christ himself kicked to the curb out of the temple & they killed him for it. Jeremiah did the same to them also + the Essenes could not stand them either breaking away from the pharisee corruption):

Mark Zuckerberg stole the Winklevoss twins' code for Fakebook (figures as he is a thieving low jew too).

Maria Abramovic satanist spirit cooker pal of Hillary Clinton the Voodoo queen is a jew https://www.google.com/search?...

Like Hillary Clinton's mentor Saul Alinsky author of rules for radicals book dedicated to Lucifer

"Most Jews do not like to admit it, but our god is Lucifer Â- so I wasnÂ't lying Â- and we are his chosen people. Lucifer is very much aliveÂ" Harold Rosenthal http://www.thetruthseeker.co.u...

Jewish rabbi openly admits to satan worship use white children's blood they kill for passover bread, infiltrating and subverting the catholic church, creating the Jesuit order https://www.youtube.com/watch?... and https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Barbara Spectre, a jew, tells everyone it's jews orchestrating the muslim migrant problem in Europe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFE0qAiofMQ/ . No migrant raping of women in Poland. Tons in Sweden. Do the math. Use common-sense. This is to get muslims and other goyim/gentiles to wipe one another out as incompatible cultures that will clash and always have.

Rabbi A. Finkelstein ADMITS their greatest enemies are ARABS and WHITES (blacks too) whom they wish to kill one another in a 'theater of war' which they find AMUSING https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Finkelstein also admits JEWS DID 9/11 (perpetrated by the Mossad & Bebe Netanyahu of ISRAEL) https://www.youtube.com/watch?... profiting by it (and that 3,000 jews employed there did not show up for work that day knowing about it beforehand).

Finkelstein also admits JEWS are going to destroy the U.S. Dollar and dumping it for other world currencies and gold to destroy the United States.

George Soros who funds groups to create division in the USA?? A jew. One who sold his own jew people into death for the nazis.

Zucker now FIRED @ CNN is another frying publicly for lying about "russians" and John Bonifield a producer @ CNN said it is bs. Van Jones did also.

Bernie Madoff (who made off with everyone's money, especially construction union pensions) shows the thieving nature of the JUDEN!

Eric Schmidt had to step down @ JEWgle (a jew).

Adam Schiff (gosh s

Re: Seek & DESTROY - Metallica by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:41 · Score: 0

Wot?
Re:Seek & DESTROY - Metallica by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:50 · Score: 0

What the actual fuck is this shit and why does it keep popping up on /.?
Re:Seek & DESTROY - Metallica by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 09:11 · Score: 0

APK having a seizure?
Re: Seek & DESTROY - Metallica by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 09:26 · Score: 0

Gosh my thumb got tired scrolling past this
Re: Seek & DESTROY - Metallica by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 10:41 · Score: 0

People are reading "The Culture of Critique"
Re:Seek & DESTROY - Metallica by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 12:25 · Score: 0

Nah, there's a troll cut'n'pasting and claiming to be APK. They've done some 'golden shower' versions of APKs usual posts, some others that 'just' exaggerate APKs usual claims.
They seem to have turned up about the same time as the massive Creimer posts - similar format. Massive chunks of pasta with replies to self (sometimes claiming to be someone else).
It's too dull to be funny or draw much of a reaction. I'm guessing they are trying to tarnish the reputation of APK by association.
Not sure if they are paying attention. APK's a crank on only one topic. Other than that I've never seen anything from him that's racist, homophobic or similar.
I've got plenty of criticism for APKs claims and behaviour, and have said so to him. These fake posts are repugnant.
Re: Seek & DESTROY - Metallica by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 12:49 · Score: 1

Your partial defense of APK is misguided. That is, indeed, him making those posts. I'm almost certain of it.
When APK is impersonated, he doesn't hesitate to posy angry replies about it. He's done nothing of the sort here. The "shekelboy" posts and almost certainly the long-winded anti-semitic replies are APK's doing. Just a few hours ago, he was replying to posts about impersonation with "shekelboy" posts, including in response to actual and obvious impersonation of him.
It's unfortunate. I've made the same defense of APK at times that you have. Many people have done so, attributing his actions to mental health disorders. As far as I'm concerned, he's no longer worthy of any such defense.
Re: Seek & DESTROY - Metallica by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 13:13 · Score: 0

I'm not APK, but I've reposted some of his posts about shekels. I was arguing with APK earlier today and he started responding to posts with rants about shekels and putting people in ovens. I found his posts awful and promised to repost some of them. I haven't edited the posts titled "Aw, poor little shekelboy, lol... apk" in any way. They're his exact words that he posted.
Why? Because I want people who would still defend him to see him for what he is. He is a racist and deserves no sympathy.
When I told him that I was reposting it, he replied with the long anti-semitic stream of consciousness that you see reposted several times in this article. I haven't reposted that at all. I assume it's actually him posting that.
I'm not trying for a reaction from him. I do want people to see that he really is a racist asshole. This isn't my usual way of doing things, but I was so taken aback by his anti-semitic posts that I wanted to expose him for who he truly is. Frankly, you're part of the audience for the reposts. You need to see him for who he truly is.
He is a racist. I'm sorry if you don't want to believe it, but it's true. He's shown hints of similar things previously, including his comments about Muslims in some of his replies to Zontar. This is just a significant escalation in being overt about it.
I haven't edited APK's words, simply reposted them in places where more people will see them. He has followed up by endorsing those words with the long replies you see. He hasn't signed those posts, but I'm convinced they are his posts.
Re: Seek & DESTROY - Metallica by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 13:25 · Score: 0

APK is abusing AC posting because he's a racist asshole.
Re:Seek & DESTROY - Metallica by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 13:35 · Score: 0

Meds to cubicle one, someone has clearly lost their shit.
Re:Seek & DESTROY - Metallica by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-13 09:00 · Score: 0

Other than that I've never seen anything from him that's racist, homophobic or similar.
See yourself in this thread.
It's not the first time he did this. It has been going on for years.
Misguided indeed.
Re: Seek & DESTROY - Metallica by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-13 09:09 · Score: 0

He has followed up by endorsing those words with the long replies you see. He hasn't signed those posts, but I'm convinced they are his posts.
They are indeed his posts, it's the same pattern I've seen over the years.

Seek & DESTROY - Metallica by Anonymous Coward · 2018-07-12 08:38 · Score: -1