Bot Tweeted Names And Photos Of Venmo Users Who Bought Drugs (mercurynews.com)

Since Venmo's transactions are "public" by default and broadcast on Venmo's API, a Python programmer decided to publicize a few of them, reports the Mercury News: The creator of the bot named "Who's buying drugs on Venmo" under the Twitter handle @venmodrugs says he wanted users to consider their privacy settings before using Venmo. The bot finds Venmo transactions that include words such as heroin, marijuana, cocaine, meth, speed or emojis that denote drugs and tweets the transaction with the names of the sender and receiver and the sender's photo, if there is one... "I wanted to demonstrate how much data Venmo was making publicly available with their open API and their public by default settings and encourage people to consider their privacy settings," Joel Guerra, the creator of the bot, told Motherboard, a technology news outlet run by Vice.
He shut the bot after 24 hours, according to a Medium essay titled "Why I blasted your 'drug' deals on Twitter": I chose drugs, sex and alcohol keywords as the trigger for the bot because because they were funny and shocking. I removed the last names of users because I didn't want to actually contribute to the problem of lack of privacy... I braced myself for backlash but the response was overwhelmingly positive. People understood my point and I had sparked a lot of discussion about online privacy and the need for users to do a better job of understanding the terms of software they were using -- and a lot of discussion about how companies need to do a better job of informing customers how their data was being used...

After about 24 hours of tweeting everyone's drug laden Venmo transactions I shut down the bot (Python script!!) and deleted all the tweets. I had successfully made my point and gotten more attention than I had imagined possible. Thousands of people were reading tweets and articles about the bot and discussing data privacy. I saw no further value in tweeting out anyone's personal transactions anymore. However, all I ever did was format the data and automate a Twitter account -- the data is still readily available.
His closure of the bot drew some interesting reactions on Twitter.

"booooooooo. I was so entertained by this."

"I remember I had a dealer take my phone and set venmo to private lol."

"we're looking to add a Python developer to our team and I think you'd be a good fit."

Comments

I must be old

[Anonymous Coward]

I must be old because I had never heard of venmo until now. Fucking mellinials.

Re:I must be old

[coolsnowmen]

Old people don't need venmo in general.

- Young people rarely have enough denominations of cash on them (prefer credit cards). To pay anyone back exactly.

- Young people don't have the money just to 'buy everyone dinner', or "I'll get you next time". So they split the bill. But not all restaurants or hotels etc make that easy. So Venmo did. Also, at one point in time Paypal didn't make it as easy as it does now (probably because of competition from venmo)

Re:I must be old

[Scarletdown]

I must be old because I had never heard of venmo until now. Fucking mellinials.

So do we put you down in favor of fucking millenials or against fucking millenials? :p

Sounds like this Joel Guerra is just another little shitlord who jizzes himself at the idea of disrupting anything he can get his Cheeto dust encrusted hands on.

Re:I must be old

[CaptainDork]

I'm 72 years old and when God said, "Let there be light." I threw the fucking switch.

That was the precursor to Venmo.

Fucking Luddite.

Re:I must be old

[b0s0z0ku]

Easy to split bills exactly in cash as well -- restaurants are ecstatic to make change if they know they'll be paid in cash :D

Re:I must be old

[Cederic]

not all restaurants or hotels etc make that easy

Sure they do. They provide a bill for X, you know Y people ate/stayed, you divide X by Y and just fucking get on with life.

In my experience the person eating the expensive steak voluntarily chucks a little extra in anyway, usually before the rest even find out the bill's total.

Re:I must be old

[jareth-0205]

not all restaurants or hotels etc make that easy

Sure they do. They provide a bill for X, you know Y people ate/stayed, you divide X by Y and just fucking get on with life.

In my experience the person eating the expensive steak voluntarily chucks a little extra in anyway, usually before the rest even find out the bill's total.

Sure - when you have cash to spare the rough split is fine. When you're on a tight budget and are picking from the menu partly based on price, but would still like to go out with friends, not so much. Surely you've had a time in your life when you didn't have much cash to spend, and this sort of thing was a stress? Or have you always been wealthy?

Re:I must be old

[Cederic]

When I couldn't afford to eat out, I didn't eat out.

Then again my friends know who's not earning, who just had a snack and not three courses, who drank all the wine. We adjust, we don't need to discuss it, we don't dive through each item on the receipt.

We stop going out with people that do. Life's too short, fucking get on with it.

Re:I must be old

[jareth-0205]

We stop going out with people that do. Life's too short, fucking get on with it.

You know what I think life's too short for? Cutting people out of parts of your life because you can't flex for their financial needs. A couple of minutes faffing with the bill in a way you don't like, is more important to you to avoid than their entire presence. I for one don't shun people due to fucking trivialities. God knows what you do to people when you have a disagreement that actually matters.

Re:I must be old

[Cederic]

Going through a receipt line item by line item has fuck all to do with financial needs and everything to do with being an obnoxious twat.

We resolve our differences because we don't have to deal with obnoxious twats.

Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[jellomizer]

In short if there is demand for a product there will be a market for it. You can try to setup social rules or actual laws, but just as long people want it, it will be available.

However if such a product/service is Black Market, or just Taboo for that culture, there rarely is a formal entry to entry. It isn't like a Drug dealer will need at least 2 years of business school, or a Sex Worker will need an art degree, or places that offer formal training... So the reason why a lot of these people get caught is because they don't know what they are doing. So Venmo is an easy way to send them money, they will take it. Not realizing how insecure it is. Because they didn't think on how insecure it is, and neither does the consumer (even for more normal purchases) realize how publicly displaying the purchases is risky.

Now Black Market and even Taboo markets have the biggest problem of not being able to fight against bad service or products. You as a consumer isn't willing to sue Venmo because it posted your purchases of an Illegal or Embarrassing item, because all it will do is bring more attention to themselves. Sure some people are willing to take the Embarrassment of a Taboo item, just to get their point across, but for Black Market stuff your risking punishment as well, for getting ripped off.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[inking]

TL;DR: Criminals are by and large compete and utter idiots. So are many of their customers.

This bot post has just saved you a minute of reading. Praise Jobs.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[jellomizer]

The largest Black Market in New York State isn't drugs, but unpasteurized milk. You can drive across Upstate NY and find signs saying Raw Milk this way. I say this because calling people dealing in the Black Market Criminals is a harsh statement. It is the sale of anything that isn't allowed to be sold in the area.

A low bar of entry makes it easier for stupid people to get into it. However they are also a lot of extremely smart people in the Black Market too, which is why the "War on Drugs" is so hard to fight, Because you are fighting Market Demand and Creative individuals who work all the time to work around the system, yet make themselves known to actually sell to people.

Black Market is a very inconsistent area. You can get top notch quality or crap that will kill you. Because for that Raw Milk the producer can make sure the Cows are in wonderful living conditions, clean happy and healthy. Or sleeping in their own waste, eating garbage food.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[inking]

It is not a harsh statement. People selling things that aren’t allowed to be sold are criminals. Extremely smart people can make a killing without living under a constant fear of having to spend several decades of their life in prison.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[jittles]

TL;DR: Criminals are by and large compete and utter idiots. So are many of their customers. This bot post has just saved you a minute of reading. Praise Jobs.

You may want to reconsider that statement. Yes there are plenty of dumb criminals but there are also plenty of people who think it is funny to put silly things in Venmo. It's no different that someone putting "Sensual Massage" in the memo field of a check they write to their roommate, except that nobody ever looks at the memo field on a check. Most of those are probably jokes. Unless people are buying these drugs by mail why would they use Venmo instead of cold hard cash? And we all know that people prefer cryptocoins for their online drug purchases

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[inking]

I don’t think it is a very productive exercise to ask “why” in most cases involving stupidy relating to use of electronics. I am certain anyone who has ever been in corporate cyber security will eagerly confirm this statement. Mind you, we are talking about people with degrees that attended security policy orientations and still manage to send confidential data over unsecured channels. Now imagine the guy whose main skill is selling meth in a night club. I would not be surprised if he kept a log of his transactions on his Facebook wall or something.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[Archangel Michael]

People selling things that aren’t allowed to be sold are criminals.

I would suggest to you that your view is simplistic to say the least, and doesn't reflect reality. There are plenty of things that are now illegal, that once were legal. And things that were once illegal that are currently legal, and a few things that were once legal, then made illegal, but are legal again. Alcohol is a great example.

Drinking alcohol doesn't make one a criminal either before, during or after prohibition. Just because there is a law doesn't mean it is a good one. And thus, we have the ability to judge not only the facts of a case, but also the law (jury nullification). This is the last refuge of liberty.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[Actually, I do RTFA]

The largest Black Market in New York State isn't drugs, but unpasteurized milk. You can drive across Upstate NY...

... and find 1/3 the population of the state. While it may be spread over a greater physical area, the actual population is pretty small. Hence, unless raw milk is twice as popular as drugs, it's still a smaller market. (Where we're just talking about units consumed. To say nothing of raw milk being cheap compared to, say, cocaine.)

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[BenFranske]

Actually that's exactly what criminal means. We can (and should) absolutely have a debate about what things should be unlawful today and be continually updating laws. Make no mistake though that if something is unlawful when you do it you are a criminal. That's the definition of criminal.

Yes, that means that everyone who speeds is a criminal. Yes, that means that people who drank (well actually only people who produced, sold, or transported intoxicating liquors) during the prohibition era were criminals. There are many examples of things which should not be, or are not anymore, unlawful but it is clearly the case that people who did those things while they were unlawful are in fact criminals. Yes, almost everyone is a criminal because we have a lot of laws on the books.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[BenFranske]

In the US almost all milk is of the 'low level' pasteurized variety you mentioned this means temperatures of at least 161 F for not less than 15 seconds, followed by rapid cooling. Very little US milk is ultra-pasteurized. It's just trendy right now in the US for some people to drink raw milk. I wouldn't say that it's especially popular, but there's definitely a community of people who seek it out, trade places to buy it, etc.

I drink a lot of milk, enough that I still have home delivery which is very rare in the US these days. My experience, and a key reason I pay extra for home delivery, is that the taste of milk had much more to do with freshness than anything else. The fresher the better.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[jittles]

I don’t think it is a very productive exercise to ask “why” in most cases involving stupidy relating to use of electronics. I am certain anyone who has ever been in corporate cyber security will eagerly confirm this statement. Mind you, we are talking about people with degrees that attended security policy orientations and still manage to send confidential data over unsecured channels. Now imagine the guy whose main skill is selling meth in a night club. I would not be surprised if he kept a log of his transactions on his Facebook wall or something.

But in this case it is very productive to ask why someone would add an electronic layer to a cash business. There's no justification for it, and a great way to get busted by the IRS or whatever tax agency rules your country. So I have to ask why would that night club meth dealer accept VenMo? If one buyer doesn't have the cash, the next will. And anyone who goes to a night club to buy drugs always has cash.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[b0s0z0ku]

Raw milk is perfectly legal in NY State as long as the producer is licensed. It just can't be sold across state lines.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[CaptainDork]

In short: I agree with you, particularly on a point that is dear to my research.

They best way to stop behaviour deemed undesirable is to remove the desire.

The war on drugs: Stop addiction.

Influx of undocumented humans: Make America a shot hole country.

Sex trafficking, toy sales, pornography, workers, etc.: Make people unhorny.

Gun control: Make ownership unnecessary.

The solid solution to many issues is on the demand side.

Make the demand go away, and the problem is solved.

The only way to win is not to play.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[Anonymous Coward]

You are trying to make the point that buying and selling on the black market is not immoral. However you keep saying it is not criminal. It absolutely is criminal. Legality and morality are often not the same thing.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[cascadingstylesheet]

because calling people dealing in the Black Market Criminals is a harsh statement. It is the sale of anything that isn't allowed to be sold in the area.

Allowed to be sold ... by laws. Which, if you break, you are a criminal.

So, literally black market criminals.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[TheMeuge]

So in short he want to make people not human.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[CaptainDork]

Exactly.

Prohibition is the template for the answer: There is none.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[jellomizer]

There are other ways to lower demand.
However these require a lot of work that we just don’t have the leadership to manage.

For Drugs you need to find out why someone starts in the beginning. There could be thousands of different reasons. The issue is to find people who would be tempted and offer alternatives.

It isn’t easy it isn’t cheap and it would be messy. But if it is really considered a problem then they are solution but it is going to be hard.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[Archangel Michael]

No. That's NOT what I am saying. I'm saying that just because something is illegal doesn't make it "wrong". Is selling Lemonade on the corner wrong? We did that a lot when I was a kid 50 years ago. Yet that is illegal enough that police are called (code enforcement) and it is stopped.

Or how about Immigration?

Or how about alcohol?

Or how about smoking?

Or how about Prostitution?

Or .....

I'm arguing for a libertarian viewpoint, which is apart from the current Nanny State proponents of protecting everyone from everything, including providing "safe spaces" for people easily offended.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[tlhIngan]

It's just trendy right now in the US for some people to drink raw milk. I wouldn't say that it's especially popular, but there's definitely a community of people who seek it out, trade places to buy it, etc.

It's just a food trend - by people who thing "raw" is better. There's a good reason we pasteurize milk - there can be a lot of nasty bugs in them. Not because it was in the milk, but because of the bugs on the surfaces around the udders. (The udders are exposed to dirt and everything, and have to be cleaned before being hooked up to the milking machine where the milk and the udders may come in contact. The old style of milking was slightly cleaner since the milk just sprayed into a bucket far away.

And what's trendy among the "raw" crowd is "raw water" - water that hasn't gone through the water treatment plant. (You know, one of the few things in human history that greatly improved human health). About the only good thing is people will find out pretty rapidly why we have water treatment plants in the first place.

Of course, there is a good reason why humans cook food - yes, you lose nutrients, but cooking tends to make nutrients more bio-available and easier for the body to process and acquire.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[f3rret]

Add Haloperidol to the water supply, gonna take right care of al those things.
Maybe a bit of Diazepam.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[inking]

Actually, criminals are usually individuals falling under the penal code, whereas speeding typically falls under ordinances or the transportation code. Tax evasion and selling prohibited goods is almost universally treated by the penal code and is thus criminal.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[BenFranske]

Agreed by (at least some) legal definitions, but I was working more from a dictionary definition which is usually anyone committing a crime which is anything unlawful by dictionary definition.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[inking]

I absolutely agree with you on the gist of it.

Re:Black Market and Taboo Industries.

[Archangel Michael]

You are correct. Did you vote for the people that created the drug laws? My guess, that unless you're much older than I am, you didn't. I surely didn't vote, the beginnings of those drug laws predates my birth, and I'm an old greybeard that I used to make fun of.

I used to smoke weed .. a lot. I don't smoke now. My views haven't changed because of my personal choice. They have only solidified. Crimes should be relegated to actual harm to others. Murder, theft, robbery, rape ... All easily fall into this gap. The most utilitarian purpose of government is to SECURE the rights of the citizenry, not control them.

True Liberty is messy.

Re:This is why they want to get rid of cash.

[Highdude702]

Theres no way to "crack" monero. Sure you can get an idea maybe of where the coins went, but with mixins its basically impossible to trace shit. GL with a blockchain explorer.

Re:This is why they want to get rid of cash.

[Rockoon]

Meanwhile scientists have gotten a nice foothold into quantum computing. That shits coming. First it will be deep pockets that get it. They may not let anyone else ever get it.

Re:This is why they want to get rid of cash.

[Highdude702]

You're not understanding what I'm saying. Transactions are obfuscated by default, and you choose how many "mixins" you want to use, meaning how many other transactions to put into yours. There is nothing to crack, therefor a quantum computer is worthless, unless you want to make a miner out of it. I would love to have a quantum miner.

I deleted my account yesterday, different reason

[Applehu Akbar]

I have had occasion to send money to two relatives who are "unbanked," and because I could only talk one of them into using Square Cash, I had to install Venmo. Yesterday Venmo emailed its users to say they are getting out of the personal payments business, so I saw that as good reason to delete my long-inactive account.

Re:Black Market Bombs and Taboo Touches.

[retchdog]

venmo me, but just call it "scientific equipment".

Re:This is why they want to get rid of cash.

[smallfries]

That’s quite a naive assumption. There are no proofs that it is hard to unscramble. There was a paper last year showing it is not as hard as it should be.

Re:Transactions public by default?

[sunking2]

The vast majority of users could not care less who sees they split a pizza with someone.

Re:Black Market Bombs and Taboo Touches.

[Scarletdown]

In short if there is demand for a product there will be a market for it. You can try to setup social rules or actual laws, but just as long people want it, it will be available.

Everyone wants THE BOMB. Where can they pick one up? Asking for a friend.

Many Quickie Marts carry them, with the other frozen nukable stuff. Then again, I don't think I could get myself to eat a burrito called The Bomb. You know that has to be a warning of near future "problems".

Re:Transactions public by default?

[Scarletdown]

Split it? I thought it was always the "fastest" one to reach for the wallet pays. I get more free pizza that way (Surprised J. Wellington Wimpy never used that line). :)

Re:This is why they want to get rid of cash.

[CaptainDork]

You don't understand quantum computing.

I do.

Consider CaptainDork's 3rd corollary: "For every motherfucker out there with a goddam computer, there's another motherfucker out there with a goddam computer."

We're all getting quantum computers and, as it is today, "All your base are belong to us."

and how much did the DEA pay for them to snitch?

[Joe_Dragon]

and how much did the DEA pay for them to snitch?

What a compelte asshole

[aepervius]

He could have used another way to show the vulnerability without having people named and shamed. But nooooo. let us name and shame. Anti social idiot.