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Apple Tells Lawmakers iPhones Are Not Listening In On Consumers (reuters.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Reuters: Apple told U.S. lawmakers on Tuesday that its iPhones do not listen to users without their consent and do not allow third-party apps to do so either, after lawmakers asked the company if its devices were invading users' privacy. Representatives Greg Walden, Marsha Blackburn, Gregg Harper and Robert Latta wrote to Apple's chief executive Tim Cook and Alphabet chief executive Larry Page in July, citing concerns about reports that smartphones could "collect 'non-triggered' audio data from users' conversations near a smartphone in order to hear a 'trigger' phrase, such as 'Okay Google' or 'Hey Siri.'"
In a letter to Walden, an Oregon Republican who chairs the House Energy and Commerce Committee, Apple said iPhones do not record audio while listening for Siri wakeup commands and Siri does not share spoken words. Apple said it requires users to explicitly approve microphone access and that apps must display a clear signal that they are listening.
In a letter to Walden, an Oregon Republican who chairs the House Energy and Commerce Committee, Apple said iPhones do not record audio while listening for Siri wakeup commands and Siri does not share spoken words. Apple said it requires users to explicitly approve microphone access and that apps must display a clear signal that they are listening.
and we will believe you. Until such a time as the code can be verified by third-parties, your word is utterly meaningless. Trust, but verify.
Good-bye
PRISM was with the users consent?
PRISM was another approved third-party app?
Do governments get that explicitly approved microphone access?
Hey NSA?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Posted from your Android Phone, Made by a company who makes most of their money selling targeted ads based on your data views.
Vs.
Apple who makes its money from selling higher margin devices.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I've had several experiences where random run ins with people I don't know have started yielding lots of ads related to obscure topics we've talked about. For example in an elevator I ran into someone wearing the shirt of a small college I was looking at but passed on, we talked about 1 minute about the school then went our separate ways. Within 15 minutes I started seeing ads for the school even though I lived 1000 miles away and ran into the guy 2500 miles away. It might very well be an option I clicked through on an app, but it's happened on multiple occasions at this point.
How would they recognise the "Ey, siri!" command if they are not listening? What they do with the audio that doesn't match the Ey siri command we don't know. As users we'll have to trust whatever they say, and however they implemented it... and I think trust is not enough.
We will also be discussing cigarette companies denial that cigarettes cause cancer and big oil companies denial that fossil fuels contribute to global warming, news at 11.
Seriously though, whether or not they actually are, do we expect Apple to say anything different if it can't be proven (or possibly even if it can)?
Exactly. This is like when someone says, "you're not listening to me", but you did hear everything they said.
I would like them to clearly state what is sent where, and what things get feeds of what data. I strongly suspect it is:
* The microphone is always on
* A local daemon is constantly watching that data stream for signals that appear to contain "Hey Siri" using a limited pattern recognition algorithm.
* The stream is buffered, so it can rewind a little (how far is TBD)
* When something that might contain "Hey Siri" is detected, the stream is rewound by XX seconds, and then sent onto servers somewhere (where TBD).
* Servers process the stream and perform advanced speech-to-text. If "Hey Siri" is not found in the first XX seconds, it stops streaming and tells the phone to drop the stream.
* If "Hey Siri" is found in the first XX seconds, it does its magic on it and sends the results back to the phone, logging the resulting audio and text to a secure location (TBD).
I would find it very very unlikely that they constantly stream everything. The data from every iphone in the world all streaming to servers all at once 24x7x365 would simply be too much for the operators and users not to notice.
I don't think it's all that hard to lay that out in plain english for people to understand. Masking the actual operation and saying, "iPhones do not record audio while listening for Siri wakeup commands", is disingenuous. That may be technically true because it's not "recorded", per say, but it's certainly buffered, and if it's always listening for wake up commands, then the mic is always on and data is being written somewhere (buffer, at minimum). Maybe it's not always listening for wake up commands, and that may be true, but whenever it is, that is listening IMO, and not simply hearing.
How do we tell the advertising companies that I want to target people who said certain words aloud?
I bet they will easily sell you "this person is interested in term X...." but not "this person said term X aloud."
[Error 407: No signature found]
biomechanical creatures called Leapers that attach to people through a bio-tether proboscis and induce hallucinatory visions of an imaginary world
OMGWTFLOLBBQ
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
We are listening and recording.
Don't forget cables and dongles. :) People seem to about business models. Without a doubt Apple will sell you the highest priced items that they can get away with selling; however, the vast majority of their business model is to sell hardware. Things like media is so that you will buy their hardware. For example, Apple took a stand against DRM in music because the public was against it and it benefited Apple not to have it. They have DRM in movies and shows because the public is fine with it.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
When they say Siri commands are not being recorded I assume they mean that no permanent audio file is saved. Buffering can happen in memory or temp files though I doubt it is more efficient to save files. Now I don't doubt the Siri content and meta data is being saved at the server but not the audio.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
With all the opt-in going on, this means that they do.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Consent being written into the legalese of the EULA.
Why stop with phones? This logic applies to literally any device. A designer's word is utterly meaningless so post complete documentation of every detail of design or conclude that it is unsafe and intends to harm you.
Do without a phone if you are so paranoid. Better yet, go live in the wilderness...or admit that this is nothing more than an open source troll.
The rest of us understand that some level of trust must always exist, that absolutist arguments like this are worthless, and that companies have good reasons to protect intellectual property.
...before installing an app/program "nobody" has any idea what they are consenting to.
The average person could be giving up their rights to their first born children every time they install a program/app.
Many installations want consent for collecting data to "improve the product" or "improve customer experience"... theoretically, giving all ones data to the NSA to help prevent terrorism is an improvement for the customer.
... because everyone reads the ToS for every app they blindly install and never bother to remove or check if it's running in the background...
Right. Of course we can trust Apple. Obviously.
A LOT more than we can trust an ANONYMOUS, COWARD, don'tcha think?
Posted from your Android Phone, Made by a company who makes most of their money selling targeted ads based on your data views.
Vs.
Apple who makes its money from selling higher margin devices.
;-)
* A local daemon is constantly watching that data stream for signals that appear to contain "Hey Siri" using a limited pattern recognition algorithm.
It's dedicated hardware, not a daemon, stupid.
The rest of your paranoid Slashtard rant is just that: Paranoid.
We will also be discussing cigarette companies denial that cigarettes cause cancer and big oil companies denial that fossil fuels contribute to global warming, news at 11.
Seriously though, whether or not they actually are, do we expect Apple to say anything different if it can't be proven (or possibly even if it can)?
Fucking just watch for network traffic out of the phone while it is ostensibly asleep.
Easily verified, moron.
Have gnu, will travel.
This has actually been done. There is a separate IC/DSP/Controller (whatever you want to call it) that listens for the "Hey Siri." When it hears it, it wakes up the main CPU and the rest of the process starts running. It would be far too power intensive for the main CPU cores to stay awake to analyze a constant stream of noise. This is also why the iMac Pro, and similar computers contain some of the chipset from the iPhones.
...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
We will also be discussing cigarette companies denial that cigarettes cause cancer and big oil companies denial that fossil fuels contribute to global warming, news at 11.
Seriously though, whether or not they actually are, do we expect Apple to say anything different if it can't be proven (or possibly even if it can)?
Fucking just watch for network traffic out of the phone while it is ostensibly asleep.
Easily verified, moron.
And when the phone prefers to limit network traffic by compressing the data stream and only piggybacking the transmissions on phone calls? Not going to convince a conspiracy theorist anyway.
Beside, I never said they were doing it. My original comment is more about, if they are doing it or not, is a denial of something that will get the company in hot water really news? To me the accusation is the news, the denials is more of a footnote. The news doesn't even need to wait for the denial and could just about immediately publish, Apple expected to deny accusation...
It probably hinges on the definition they are using for "record", as you're clearly right that you can't parse "OK Google" without recording to RAM. And given what I've heard about "state of the art" it probably even requires sending the stuff over the net to be analyzed elsewhere. Possibly what the actually mean is "there's no permanent record"...for some definition of permanent. How reasonable that definition is would be a good question. So would "What steps are taken to prevent it from being intercepted?".
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Jesus fucking wept, you people are stupid. Obviously, Apple doesn't pursue every possible avenue for profit, because some routes to profit offer minor short term benefit for lots of long term downside. For example, Apple doesn't sell access to consumers' data because it wants to sell devices to consumers, and consumers' trust for Apple is worth a shit load more than their data.
Don't like the web site, go away. Simple answer for quite obviously a very simple mind. If you even have one
Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
Tim Cook didn't make it possible to protect yourself explicitly by " Opting Out" of any and all microphone usage.
Apple should add privacy switches to iPhones - physical sliders that physically disable the camera and microphone. If I slide the camera or mic slider to "OFF", then the camera or mic can't work. Regardless of the user preferences, software, or what I say, the camera or mic is physically unable to work again, until I move the slider back to "ON".
With privacy switches, Apple can remove fears that their phones are listening or taking pictures when they shouldn't. Apple can take the cover off of an iPhone, letting you see the iPhone's camera and mic. Then they can make a movie of someone sliding the privacy switches back and forth, and show the movie to Congress - "Look, when you move the mic (or camera) privacy switch to "OFF", see how the mic (or camera) is physically disabled."
Privacy switches might be a good idea on all phones and computers, not just Apple's.
Dude, chill out man. If you don't think Apple doesn't sell the highest priced item they can, you haven't bought a $30 cable when you can pay much less.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Dude, chill out man. If you don't think Apple doesn't sell the highest priced item they can, you haven't bought a $30 cable when you can pay much less.
And you haven't bought that same cable from another computer OEM, either.
Don't single-out Apple EVERY SINGLE TIME, when the entire INDUSTRY does the EXACT SAME FUCKING THING!!!
Now, FUCK OFF.
Seriously.
We believe a corporate oligarch hell bent on profit over people (as proven by work force conditions in Foxconn plants) less than we believe an appointed government official / ex-lobbyist when he says his department's public feedback was taken down by an attack .. oops.
https://www.theguardian.com/te...
https://arstechnica.com/inform...
But they are not slowing down the phones and never have. When the battery has aged it cannot support an overload and will crash. Apple put software in to prevent this which dropped the CPU frequency (talking loosely here) momentarily to prevent the phone stopping and rebooting to allow it to continue running. It only drops that CPU frequency while in overload.. The phone in general is not slowed, only a single task for a brief moment.
Except they don't sell your info.
All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
Why does stating facts seem to piss you off?
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Why does stating facts seem to piss you off?
Because these particular "Facts" are being SPUN to make them look like they are a behavior/policy/business-model that is EXCLUSIVE to Apple.
Every. Single. Time.
But even this SLIGHTEST effort will show them to be anything BUT Apple-Exclusive behaviors/policies/business-models.
For example: Since we were talking about Adapters (so-called "Dongles"), these were found in about 5 minutes of Googling, and I didn't even have to try hard AT ALL (my search term was [mfg] USB-C Adapter:
https://www.cdw.com/product/De...
https://www.amazon.com/Dell-DA...
https://www.dell.com/en-us/sho...
https://www.dell.com/en-us/wor...
So, where's the Outrage at Dell?
https://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp...
https://www.amazon.com/HP-USB-...
https://store.hp.com/us/en/pdp... ...and IMHO, the MOST egregious:
https://www.amazon.com/HP-N2Z6...
So where's the outrage at HP?
I could probably go on an on with other laptop OEMs; but I think (hope) you get the point.
I'll take my apology now...
I don't believe you can actually do that. You could do that for a few voices and accents, but to handle a large population I think you need net access.
That said, I'll admit I'm not an expert in this area...but why should I believe you are?
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Funny that Apple gets attacked for answering the question, while Google and Amazon get a pass for not answering.
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.