Dropbox Is Dropping Support For All Linux File Systems Except Unencrypted Ext4 (dropboxforum.com)

New submitter rokahasch writes: Starting today, August 10th, most users of the Dropbox desktop app on Linux have been receiving notifications that their Dropbox will stop syncing starting November. Over at the Dropbox forums, Dropbox have declared that the only Linux filesystem supported for storage of the Dropbox sync folder starting the 7th of November will be on a clean ext4 file system. This basically means Dropbox drops Linux support completely, as almost all Linux distributions have other file systems as their standard installation defaults nowadays -- not to mention encryption running on top of even an ext4 file system, which won't qualify as a clean ext4 file system for Dropbox (such as eCryptfs which is the default in, for example, Ubuntu for encrypted home folders).

The thread is trending heavily on Dropbox' forums with the forum's most views since the thread started earlier today. The cries from a large amount of Linux users have so far remained unanswered from Dropbox, with most users finding the explanation given for this change unconvincing. The explanation given so far is that Dropbox requires a file system with support for Extended attributes/Xattrs. Extended attributes however are supported by all major Linux/Posix complaint file systems. Dropbox has, up until today, supported Linux platforms since their services began back in 2007. A number of users have taken to Twitter to protest the move. Twitter user troyvoy88 tweets: "Well, you just let the shitstorm loose @Dropbox dropping support for some linux FS like XFS and BTRFS. No way in hell im going to reformat my @fedora #development station and removing encryption no way!"

Another user by the name of daltux wrote: "It will be time to say goodbye then, @Dropbox. I won't store any personal files on an unencrypted partition."

Comments

If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[llamalad]

why would you trust a cloud storage provider to keep a copy of it?

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because people steal laptops all the time. They also steal USB keys with data you may be compelled to share with workmates.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[gtwrek]

The normal setup is encryption after partition. Meaning dropbox is operating on the unencrypted data. Sure dropbox may re-encrypt on their end (and probably in flight too). But that whole thing is encryption on their terms (Dropbox) not yours. Meaning as strong as they like it, and key-management as they like it.

All the linux encrypted volume stuff is meaningless to the files stored on the Dropbox Cloud.

That said, this decision my Dropbox is troublesome. They have a really good cross-platform product that syncs better than most of the existing solutions. I don't think this a wise decision.

A current (paid) Dropbox user, watching carefully...

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[thegarbz]

why would you trust a cloud storage provider to keep a copy of it?

Because the odds of someone directly hacking my account at dropbox and sucking my data out are lower than the odds of one of the many hotel staff who walk into my room unannounced lifting my laptop. It's like when someone asks why I have an encrypted external drive that auto-decrypts when connected to my computer without a password: The odds of the drive going missing without the computer are higher than the odds of losing both + the computer unlock password.

Security isn't an on or off thing. It's a sliding scale of risk profiles and associated mittigations.

First thought...

[b0s0z0ku]

First thought was appeasement of the TLAs (NSA/FBI/CIA and their British/Chinese/Russian equivalents). But that makes no sense either since Dropbox itself has the files and they're not encrypted with a key known only to the user.

Laziness, I guess?

Re:First thought...

[b0s0z0ku]

It still has access to the unencrypted files once an encrypted filesystem is unlocked, so what's the difference?

eCryptfs is deprecated...

[gQuigs]

ecryptfs was dropped from the Ubuntu installer and deprecated in 18.04 LTS in favor of full disk or manually using fscrypt (work is ongoing to make this easier) - because it does have various issues.

See this bug for more: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubu...

I don't get it.

[xvan]

Isn't dropbox sync a userland application? Why does it care about the underlying FS?

Re:I don't get it.

[slack_justyb]

Isn't dropbox sync a userland application? Why does it care about the underlying FS?

It doesn't. Someone at Dropbox basically did this.

select fstype, isencrypted, count(1) from dropboxusers where ispaying='Y' and ostype='linux' group by fstype, isencrypted

And the answer was overwhelmingly the configuration they are moving to.

Re:I don't get it.

[93 Escort Wagon]

Isn't dropbox sync a userland application? Why does it care about the underlying FS?

Dropbox likes to worm its way into the operating system and get access it doesn’t need - I can only speculate that the sleazeballs are doing something behind the scenes with that access in an attempt to furtively monetize their users’ data.

I stopped using Dropbox on OS X when they got caught adding themselves into the system-wide accessibility permissions table without asking. Thing is, the service works just fine without that (I did it for a couple weeks, until I got tired of denying Dropbox’s repeated requests to “fix” my system). So why are they asking for it - can’t be for any reason the end user would want.

Why...

[Stormy Dragon]

...does the Dropbox App even care about the low level details of the file system? Shouldn't they all look the same to it from an API perspective?

Re:Dropbox decided on their target market

[Locke2005]

Hey! I may be a sweaty neckbeard, but I'm NOT fat!!!

Open source the client

[AlanBDee]

They should open source their linux client then. I bet this boils down to them thinking that it cost them more money to maintain the client then the number customers they will lose by not having it. I know for me their linux support was one of the reason why I have been a long time user.

Anyone know of a good way to automatically sync photos taken on Android and Apple phones to my NAS at home? At this point that's about the only super handy feature from Dropbox that I use.

Re:Open source the client

[arth1]

They should open source their linux client then. I bet this boils down to them thinking that it cost them more money to maintain the client then the number customers they will lose by not having it.

Or it boils down to National Security Letters telling them that someone wants access to the unencrypted data, on a file system that doesn't do automatic wiping.

Re:Open source the client

[b0s0z0ku]

Dropbox reads the data unencrypted from an unlocked encrypted filesystem, so it has the unencrypted data anyway. That was my first thought, too, but it doesn't make much sense.

Why uses Dropbox?

[goosesensor]

What Linux user uses drop box? You're doing it wrong.

Re:Can't use the app?

[b0s0z0ku]

You can, but then you lose synchronization, and good luck dealing with large files over a slow connection.

Ext4 not standard any more?

[jawtheshark]

What filesystem are you supposed to use then today? For my laptops I use ext4 on top of lvm, ok top of LUKS. For my desktops, it's without LUKS.

I thought ext4 was still pretty much standard.

Why does a synchronisation system even concern itself with filesystems?

Re:Ext4 not standard any more?

[thegarbz]

Why does a synchronisation system even concern itself with filesystems?

Because of what it is trying to become. Dropbox has stopped being a glorified rsync a long time ago and is actively chasing OneDrive for feature parity. Things like presenting additional information to users about the status of the files, or presenting phantom files to users downloaded on demand. There's lots of reasons why syncing tools would care about the underlying filesystem.

Same reason why you can't run OneDrive on a FAT32 system half the features wouldn't work since they depend on additional features the filesystem have to offer.

Now that's why it would concern itself with it, as to whether there was a technical assessment by Dropbox on linux filesystems or they just decided to give everyone the middle finger and not dedicate any programming resources to the client is a different discussion.

So much wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

First, don't store your data with dropbox. It's not encrypted.
Second, why would dropbox care if the underlying volume is encrypted if the ext4 fs supports their extended attrs? Clearly this is BS.
Third, don't use fucking cloud storage providers that don't allow you control over the encryption of the storage, or with 0 encryption like dropbox.

Cryptomator

[found404]

Not a dropbox user but is Cryptomator an option here?

Dropbox is just a crutch for bad OSes.

[Anonymous Coward]

Dropbox just re-creating functionality, built into Linux/Unix. Badly.

We have sshfs mounts, One-click "cloud" solutions, dynamic dns clients, etc, available in our package managers. And <$5 rentable web hosting. Hell, put a Linux "cloud server" image onto a microSD card, stick it in a Rasperry Pi, add a USB disk, enable dynamic DNS, and you haer your own Dropbox. With blackjack and hookers.

Dropbox was always a solution for a problem that never existed under Linux/Unix in the first place. (Excluding Ubunu-likes, obviously.)

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[b0s0z0ku]

Get a smarter spouse?

Though an email client's a client and a browser's a browser. If she has a problem doing so in Linux, how would a Mac be much different.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[SeaFox]

Litmus test to tell whether or not Linux is a viable desktop OS:

Me, on phone: "Hey wife, can you log into my laptop and email me a file?"
Wife: Mmmm ... :/

I can understand, I mean the process in Linux would be:

1. Turn on computer.
2. Enter password at login prompt.
3. Open mail client.
4. Open new email compose window.
5. Add attachment.
6. Address email.
7. Click Send

Meanwhile, it's so much different in macOS. You have to:

1. Turn on computer.
2. Enter password at login prompt.
3. Open mail client.
4. Open new email compose window.
5. Add attachment.
6. Address email.
7. Click Send

Bonus: You can have the exact same email client on both platforms -- Thunderbird. Making the process identical even in detailed "here's how you move a mouse" level directions.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[war4peace]

Your wife knows your credentials? Man, your security's shit.

One word, fellas

[war4peace]

Backblaze B2.
Or SpiderOak.

Re:One word, fellas

[trawg]

SpiderOak are discontinuing their warrant canary, which some are speculating that it means their canary is dead & they have been compromised.

They are also offering a short-term unlimited backup plan (which expires today). The close timing of that & the canary announcement is a little interesting. I was literally about to sign up to move away from Dropbox when I heard the warrant canary thing and it was confusing/disturbing enough to make me hold off.

zvols.

[0100010001010011]

zfs create -V 10G tank/ext4
mkfs.ext4 /dev/zvol/tank/ext4
mount /dev/zvol/tank/ext4 /mnt/dropbox/

Plus you get snapshots, zfs-send, and all the other goodies that come with it.

Re:One word....

[Mal-2]

Why can't they? They were up until now.

Re:One word....

[BronsCon]

My text editor doesn't give a shit what filesystem I'm using. There's no real reason Dropbox should, either; they're doing file-level transactions, not block-level.

Filesystem within a filesystem...

[glenebob]

dd if=/dev/zero of=StupidDropbox.fs bs=4096 count=
mke2fs -t ext4 StupidDropbox.fs
mkdir StupidDropbox
mount StupidDropbox.fs StupidDropbox

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

On windows it' s so much easier. You have to:

1. Turn on computer.
2. Enter password at login prompt.
3. Open mail client.
4. Wait for unscheduled system update.
5. Wait for system reboot.
6. Enter password at login prompt.
7. Open mail client.
8. Click refuse opt-in to store mail in the cloud.
9. Open new email compose window.
10. Add attachment.
11. Click refuse ad to install mail checker app.
12. Address email.
13. Wait for unscheduled system update.
14. Wait for system reboot.
16. Enter password at login prompt.
17. Open mail client.
18. Open saved draft.
19. Click Send

Re:One word....

[110010001000]

You don't understand. They are scanning the contents of the data you upload. They can't do that if it is encrypted.

Re:One word....

[BronsCon]

No, I understand perfectly well. If it's encrypted at the filesystem level, it's not encrypted at the file level.

Do you think every application you use handles filesystem encryption itself?

You're the one who, clearly, does not understand.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Chewbacon]

You also forgot click "attach a separate copy" instead of "share via one drive."

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[nukenerd]

I trust my wife and we do various things to each other, yet we still don't wear each other's used underwear

You are missing a lot.

Re: Dropbox decided on their target market

[arglebargle_xiv]

I'm fat, sweaty, and have a neckbeard, but I identify as an attack helicopter!

I just migrated and closed the account

[paxmees]

I just migrated and closed my account. They will ask why you left.

Re:One word....

[BronsCon]

In summary, your text editor works with text. Dropbox works with files on a very fundamental level. It stands to reason that they need to care about the underlying filesystem.

Dropbox reads and writes files using the same filesystem drivers as every other application. It reads and modifies file attributes through those drivers, as well. Anything it does at the filesystem level can be achieved with the mv, rm, cat, chmod, touch, and mkfifo commands.

there's actual technical reasons why a program like Dropbox needs to understand the abilities of the underlying filesystem and not treat it as a dumb pipe via some API.

No, not really. Look at OwnCloud's sync app as an example of how all of the things DropBox does can be done on any filesystem, on any OS, treating the filesystem as a dumb pipe via some API. Including notifying users via their file browser that files are in a certain state (done via OS-level APIs that may or may not exist at the filesystem level). On Windows, you do this via Overlay Handlers, you use Finder Sync Extensions on a Mac. On Linux, the method varies based on window manager (not filesystem) but there exists at least one library for that; the bonus is that it's cross-platform. Phantom downloads are easily done using named pipes and filesystem monitors, which are used by every realtime-scanning antivirus, exist at the OS level, and are filesystem independent. With a little creativity, I'm sure you can figure out how it's done. Here's a hint: the named pipes don't exist until you open the directory.

For damn good reason, most operating systems prevent direct-to-disk modification of a mounted filesystem (e.g. bypassing the driver for writes), which makes much of what Dropbox does simply impossible on those systems unless it's done via the filesystem driver APIs. Since you can't mount a filesystem twice, Dropbox accessing the filesystem directly would require the OS to unmount it and cede control to Dropbox; which would leave the OS (and thus the user) unable to access the files contained therein. As additional food for thought: if Dropbox were accessing the filesystem directly, think about it, it wouldn't work on a Mac at all, as Apple filesystems are proprietary, meaning that the Dropbox team would have no way of writing interface code for Apple's filesystems. Yet it works on a Mac.

In short, Dropbox is very much accessing files the same way your text editor does. It does a few things with those files that your text editor probably doesn't do, but it's not reading directly from, nor writing directly to, your disk.