Dropbox Is Dropping Support For All Linux File Systems Except Unencrypted Ext4 (dropboxforum.com)

New submitter rokahasch writes: Starting today, August 10th, most users of the Dropbox desktop app on Linux have been receiving notifications that their Dropbox will stop syncing starting November. Over at the Dropbox forums, Dropbox have declared that the only Linux filesystem supported for storage of the Dropbox sync folder starting the 7th of November will be on a clean ext4 file system. This basically means Dropbox drops Linux support completely, as almost all Linux distributions have other file systems as their standard installation defaults nowadays -- not to mention encryption running on top of even an ext4 file system, which won't qualify as a clean ext4 file system for Dropbox (such as eCryptfs which is the default in, for example, Ubuntu for encrypted home folders).

The thread is trending heavily on Dropbox' forums with the forum's most views since the thread started earlier today. The cries from a large amount of Linux users have so far remained unanswered from Dropbox, with most users finding the explanation given for this change unconvincing. The explanation given so far is that Dropbox requires a file system with support for Extended attributes/Xattrs. Extended attributes however are supported by all major Linux/Posix complaint file systems. Dropbox has, up until today, supported Linux platforms since their services began back in 2007. A number of users have taken to Twitter to protest the move. Twitter user troyvoy88 tweets: "Well, you just let the shitstorm loose @Dropbox dropping support for some linux FS like XFS and BTRFS. No way in hell im going to reformat my @fedora #development station and removing encryption no way!"

Another user by the name of daltux wrote: "It will be time to say goodbye then, @Dropbox. I won't store any personal files on an unencrypted partition."

Comments

Bla

[Anonymous Coward]

Bla

Dropbox decided on their target market

[Anonymous Coward]

And it is not fat sweaty neckbeards, so they did this

Re:Dropbox decided on their target market

[Locke2005]

Hey! I may be a sweaty neckbeard, but I'm NOT fat!!!

Re:Dropbox decided on their target market

[Anonymous Coward]

why doesn't dropbox like your mom?

Re:Dropbox decided on their target market

[FunkSoulBrother]

I may be fat and sweaty, but I'm closely-shaven!

Re: Dropbox decided on their target market

[Anonymous Coward]

I am fat and clean shaven, but I identify as a neckbeard regardless

Re:Dropbox decided on their target market

[Anonymous Coward]

You sound a lot like creimer, especially with that sig :)

Re: Dropbox decided on their target market

[arglebargle_xiv]

I'm fat, sweaty, and have a neckbeard, but I identify as an attack helicopter!

If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[llamalad]

why would you trust a cloud storage provider to keep a copy of it?

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Kidbro]

Because the copy is encrypted? That was sort of the whole point.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Anonymous Coward]

Because people steal laptops all the time. They also steal USB keys with data you may be compelled to share with workmates.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[reanjr]

Agreed. I mostly just use it to share media files between machines. I use it for mildly sensitive materials, but nothing for which I would feel compelled to encrypt on my own local machine.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[gtwrek]

The normal setup is encryption after partition. Meaning dropbox is operating on the unencrypted data. Sure dropbox may re-encrypt on their end (and probably in flight too). But that whole thing is encryption on their terms (Dropbox) not yours. Meaning as strong as they like it, and key-management as they like it.

All the linux encrypted volume stuff is meaningless to the files stored on the Dropbox Cloud.

That said, this decision my Dropbox is troublesome. They have a really good cross-platform product that syncs better than most of the existing solutions. I don't think this a wise decision.

A current (paid) Dropbox user, watching carefully...

Re: If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Anonymous Coward]

Zzzzz

Re: If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Anonymous Coward]

What if itâ(TM)s a laptop and it gets stolen. Iâ(TM)d like to know the data on the laptop is useless to the thief thanks to encryption.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Anonymous Coward]

If the prior furor over the Public Folder's removal is any indication, I think the odds of them reneging on this decision are similar to a snowball's in hell.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Anonymous Coward]

The normal setup is encryption after partition. Meaning dropbox is operating on the unencrypted data

Posting as AC since I've already modded this topic, but are you sure you know how encryption on Linux works? It doesn't matter where your encryption level (one that YOU do on your end) is. The end result is that the data on their side is encrypted ON YOUR TERMS. It doesn't matter whether you encrypt files, file systems, or devices. It's done on your terms. Now if you rely on THEIR encryption, then you're hosed.

Case in point. This is how I would encrypt stuff on a remote server that allowed me to stored files on there. I would create a 2GB file on the remote system. The remote file would be available on my local system via whatever means the remote company provides. I then proceed to create a loop device out of it, encrypt the loop device, open the encrypted loop device, lay a file system (any really, it doesn't matter. EXT4, NTFS, XFS, you name it. You don't even have to lay a partition down), and mount the file system on my machine. Bam! I'm done! They'll never have access to my data, or they will have it in 57.237597426108 years with the best computers they can buy today.

Am I missing something?

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Anonymous Coward]

Responding to myself. If I am understanding this correctly, you can't use Dropbox on an encrypted home volume, right? Maybe that's what I was missing. In that case, why wouldn't the following work?

dd if=/dev/zero of=~/dbmounts bs=1M count=1
losetup /dev/loop0 ~/dbmount
mkfs.ext4 -j /dev/loop0
mkdir -p ~/mnt/dbmounts
mount /dev/loop0 ~/mnt/dbmounts
mkdir ~/mnt/dbmounts/mydropbox

And tell dropbox to put your dropbox folder into ~/mnt/dbmounts/mydropbox? The file system would look like it's EXT4 and dropbox would then not care. Right?

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[shess]

why would you trust a cloud storage provider to keep a copy of it?

I started encrypted all of my volumes after I realized that some storage devices end their lives in a way which prevents me from running a scrub pass. Flash storage is even worse, the data moves around based on controller decisions, so even running scrub may not hit everything. By starting out encrypted, all I have to do is forget the key and it's random data.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[haggholm]

I encrypt my /home partition. I don’t need ALL the data on that partition to be encrypted. The stuff I don’t need encrypted goes in Dropbox.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, let's blame the fucking user. While we're at it, why do we trust Google to keep your mail from the general public? You're giving it to a cloud provider, it's basically on fucking usenet. People like you are antagonistic shit-stains, and it's clear Dropbox isn't doing even basic security hygiene like its competitors are, e.g. Sync.com.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[nukenerd]

Because people steal laptops all the time.

I don't use a laptop to store anything important. I have a big tower system unit for that; it weighs about 15 kg, and I don't think a house burglar will bother with it. Anway I have removable media for back-up.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[thegarbz]

why would you trust a cloud storage provider to keep a copy of it?

Because the odds of someone directly hacking my account at dropbox and sucking my data out are lower than the odds of one of the many hotel staff who walk into my room unannounced lifting my laptop. It's like when someone asks why I have an encrypted external drive that auto-decrypts when connected to my computer without a password: The odds of the drive going missing without the computer are higher than the odds of losing both + the computer unlock password.

Security isn't an on or off thing. It's a sliding scale of risk profiles and associated mittigations.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Anonymous Coward]

I realized that some storage devices end their lives in a way which prevents me from running a scrub pass.

If these storage devices contained anything like sensitive data, and are indeed at the end of their life, then forget a scrub pass, you should be applying a sledgehammer to the buggers.
Standard procedure here is to dban the devices first, and if they're HDs, strip them back to component part level (platters, motors, circuit boards) then TEP the platters. SSDs and USB sticks get as much of the plastic and coverings removed as possible and the electronics placed in the old commercial microwave oven for a couple of minutes...
At some point we'll also be investing in one of those cheap chinese induction furnaces to process the remains.

Why yes, my middle name is Overkill, how did you guess?

Re: If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Anonymous Coward]

I think that would work. I don't think they check for layering (i.e. an unencrypted volume inside an encrypted partition).

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Anonymous Coward]

I myself prefer to throw them into the reactor of the nukular wessel.

Re: If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Anonymous Coward]

They may not check for it yet but that can, and likely will, change.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[jythie]

Encrypting a volume is useful for cases like, say, your laptop is lost or stolen so that people can not access your data without logon in formation. Cloud storage has about the same level of protection, even if someone finds out what your account is called they can not access your stuff without a password.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Kidbro]

The normal setup is encryption after partition. Meaning dropbox is operating on the unencrypted data

You are quite right, of course. I apparently had a stroke of bad luck while I was trying to think :) With ecryptfs, you could actually set it up such that it's the encrypted files that are seen by Dropbox - and incidentally, that setup is still supported by Dropbox, if the encrypted files are on a regular ext2 filesystem. The configuration that they have dropped support for is the one where they see your unencrypted data on ecrypts (yes, and a whole slew of other filesystems, of course).
My apologies for the hasty remark, and thank you for your correction.

Re: If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Anonymous Coward]

That is stupid. Just shred the drives. As in, actually place the hardware in what amounts to a very large and powerful paper shredder but for metal.

https://youtu.be/wb3Xa1h_RqM

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[ElizabethGreene]

It's important to understand the limitations of this protection. It will keep your /home safe if you lose your laptop, but it doesn't protect you from active attacks e.g. a malicious user that swaps out your copy of (insert binary you are likely to run here) for their copy that contains a rootkit. The next time you log in and decrypt your home directory, run the aforementioned binary, and all your base are belong to them.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[haggholm]

Nothing I store in Dropbox contains binaries. No Dropbox files are in my system path. That would just be silly.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[borfast]

Because you're not uploading a copy of the entire file system, you're only uploading a few files that happen to reside in an encrypted file system for convenience (as opposed to having an encrypted partition and a non-encrypted partition, a scenario in which you will probably be wasting space in the non-encrypted volume).

Re: If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[q_e_t]

They want to minimise the amount of coding required, hence reducing the file systems supported. Adding checks seems to undermine what Dropbox's guiding principle is likely to be, so checking for this seems unlikely.

Re:If you care enough to encrypt a volume...

[Agripa]

Because the copy is encrypted? That was sort of the whole point.

If Dropbox is seeing anything except unencrypted data especially if they do the encryption, then it is not encrypted.

Granting access to unencrypted data to any Cloud service for encryption is a contradiction.

Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, this is 2018, you're not supposed to use Linux on the Desktop any more.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[b0s0z0ku]

I'm glad I never listened to people who told me what I was "supposed" to do. Obedience is for sheep.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Locke2005]

But, but... every year for the last 15 years has been "The Year of Linux on the Desktop"!!!

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

You're not supposed to use a desktop at all anymore, you Luddite. You need to use a touch screen device so that you can app the appety apps. Apps!

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[mattyj]

Litmus test to tell whether or not Linux is a viable desktop OS:

Me, on phone: "Hey wife, can you log into my laptop and email me a file?"
Wife: Mmmm ... :/

After two decades of having that conversation every 2-3 years I finally just got a Mac.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[b0s0z0ku]

Get a smarter spouse?

Though an email client's a client and a browser's a browser. If she has a problem doing so in Linux, how would a Mac be much different.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[SeaFox]

Litmus test to tell whether or not Linux is a viable desktop OS:

Me, on phone: "Hey wife, can you log into my laptop and email me a file?"
Wife: Mmmm ... :/

I can understand, I mean the process in Linux would be:

1. Turn on computer.
2. Enter password at login prompt.
3. Open mail client.
4. Open new email compose window.
5. Add attachment.
6. Address email.
7. Click Send

Meanwhile, it's so much different in macOS. You have to:

1. Turn on computer.
2. Enter password at login prompt.
3. Open mail client.
4. Open new email compose window.
5. Add attachment.
6. Address email.
7. Click Send

Bonus: You can have the exact same email client on both platforms -- Thunderbird. Making the process identical even in detailed "here's how you move a mouse" level directions.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a smarter wife is right. My 6 year old daughter could figure this out.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[sjames]

I have been using Linux on the Desktop since the mid '90s.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you go and marry the "just whack it in half" girl?

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[war4peace]

Your wife knows your credentials? Man, your security's shit.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

Except if you are the head of the "Linux Foundation" and your presentation is on a Mac. Traitor!!, to the wall, to the firing squad!

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Mal-2]

This is like forcing yourself to drive a car with a slushbox because your wife never learned to operate a manual gearbox. If you are basing your choice of OS on the ability (or inability) of another person to use it once every few years then maybe what you need is to make it easy to get into VNC. Then all your wife has to do is turn the machine on, and maybe log in for you. After that, it's yours to handle, rather than staging the Zoolander "the files are in the computer" scene a few times a decade.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

On windows it' s so much easier. You have to:

1. Turn on computer.
2. Enter password at login prompt.
3. Open mail client.
4. Wait for unscheduled system update.
5. Wait for system reboot.
6. Enter password at login prompt.
7. Open mail client.
8. Click refuse opt-in to store mail in the cloud.
9. Open new email compose window.
10. Add attachment.
11. Click refuse ad to install mail checker app.
12. Address email.
13. Wait for unscheduled system update.
14. Wait for system reboot.
16. Enter password at login prompt.
17. Open mail client.
18. Open saved draft.
19. Click Send

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

Get a smarter wife is right. My 6 year old daughter could figure this out.

Achmed, stop trying to get me to marry your daughter!

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

What, you didn't set up SSH and SFTP so you can remote into your laptop? What kind of geek are you? One who still uses email to distribute files?

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[novakyu]

You have to understand he's talking two decades ago. MIME was cutting edge!

Groovy, man.

P.S. Not only your wife shouldn't know your password, even if she knew it, your computer's default keyboard layout should be set to something she doesn't know how to type in.

Re: Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you sync your files like a normal person? Owncloud, nextcloud, scp, rsync.

Hell just have the bitch turn it on so you can ssh in and move it yourself.

No, a Mac solves alll your problems.

Re: Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, you guys have a lot to hide or you really don't trust your wives.

Either way... kind of a sad way to go through life....

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

Litmus test to tell whether or not Linux is a viable desktop OS:

Me, on phone: "Hey wife, can you log into my laptop and email me a file?"
Wife: Mmmm ... :/

After two decades of having that conversation every 2-3 years I finally just got a Mac.

If you set up ssh on your Linux box, you won't need your wife (or anyone else) to log into your box in order to get the file.

Leave your geek card behind on the way out.

Re: Who uses Linux anyway?

[link-error]

Alexa, please send email attachment to Bobby.
    Done.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

I trust my wife and we do various things to each other, yet we still don't wear each other's used underwear. Keeping passwords to yourself is just a part of basic personal hygiene.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Chewbacon]

You also forgot click "attach a separate copy" instead of "share via one drive."

Re: Who uses Linux anyway?

[Jerry]

Alexa, please send email attachment to Bobby.

    Done.

Alexa silently sends email and attachments to Amazon.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

Macs run Linux very well.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[novakyu]

Put it this way—if my wife must know my computer password, effectively letting her masquerade as me, she has trust issues, not me. Even between spouses, pretending to be other person (signing documents in their name, etc.) can constitute criminal fraud.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Tough Love]

Obvious troll is obvious. "Two decades", sure buddy.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Tough Love]

It is common knowledge that the man of whom you speak is a poser with no traction whatsover in the community.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[nukenerd]

I trust my wife and we do various things to each other, yet we still don't wear each other's used underwear

You are missing a lot.

Re: Who uses Linux anyway?

[dunkelfalke]

Well, disobedience is for the donkeys, so if you consider your attitude badass, you are just being a bad ass.

Re: Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

The whole point of Linux is that the wife doesn't know how to go through my shit.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm glad I never listened to people who told me what I was "supposed" to do. Obedience is for sheep.

Exactly what I told you to do. Just as you're supposed to behave. I command you to disobey!

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Herve5]

Mine does it.
Granted, we both use Linux machines.
And to get back to the point here, we'll never use Dropbox anyway. We share on Nextclouds, on community-managed servers...

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Highdude702]

afaik, you are allowed to sign anybodys name on a document so long as they tell you its ok to do so.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

kewl story bra.

Re:Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

Litmus test to tell whether or not Linux is a viable desktop OS:

Me, on phone: "Hey wife, can you log into my laptop and email me a file?"
Wife: Mmmm ... :/

After two decades of having that conversation every 2-3 years I finally just got a Mac.

As at least one other person has already shown, the process is identical in both cases, so your actual problem appears to be something else. Exactly what that is, you will have to come to terms with by yourself, possibly together with your wife.

Re: Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

My uncle died. He handled a lot of the bills, and this sort of behavior made it nearly impossible for his wife to handle anything afterward.

Your wife needs your password if you do anything of importance to normal life.

Re: Who uses Linux anyway?

[Anonymous Coward]

Some isps do shared ips, making outside access, even with dynamic updates, impossible.

Re: Who uses Linux anyway?

[novakyu]

No, my wife doesn't need my password for things of importance in "normal life". Your uncle should have been including his life partner in his financial matters and set up a proper estate plan. Neither of them involves password sharing, when done properly.

First thought...

[b0s0z0ku]

First thought was appeasement of the TLAs (NSA/FBI/CIA and their British/Chinese/Russian equivalents). But that makes no sense either since Dropbox itself has the files and they're not encrypted with a key known only to the user.

Laziness, I guess?

Re:First thought...

[mattyj]

Maybe Dropbox itself wants to do something sinister with your data ...

Re:First thought...

[b0s0z0ku]

It still has access to the unencrypted files once an encrypted filesystem is unlocked, so what's the difference?

Re:First thought...

[golgotha007]

Please elaborate. Doesn't the Dropbox client app only have access to the specified Dropbox folder?

I use EncFs folders inside the Dropbox share. All of my content to Dropbox is encrypted. When I have an EncFs share mounted, the raw data becomes available elsewhere on my local filesystem. How would Dropbox have access to my unencrypted data in this case?

Re:First thought...

[imAck]

i'm using ROT-26, so, I'm good.

eCryptfs is deprecated...

[gQuigs]

ecryptfs was dropped from the Ubuntu installer and deprecated in 18.04 LTS in favor of full disk or manually using fscrypt (work is ongoing to make this easier) - because it does have various issues.

See this bug for more: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubu...

Time for tarsnap to reign supreme?

[Anonymous Coward]

https://www.tarsnap.com/

Though I guess if people used Dropbox for the easy sync option maybe Tarsnap isn't what they want, but so far I've been happy with it.

Re:Time for tarsnap to reign supreme?

[infolation]

Can't imagine anyone on slashdot voluntarily wants to use dropbox.

It's clients who want to use it so we must install that godforsaken crap to deal with them.

Now Linux support's dropped, we finally have a valid reason to tell clients their hideous ecosystem is incompatible with our OS.

Re:Time for tarsnap to reign supreme?

[satch89450]

So my answer, if Dropbox remains adamant, is to go to the used computer store, pick up the cheapest Windows box that will accept a 2-TB drive, and let Dropbox run on THAT. Share the Dropbox folder. On the Linux systems, you use Samba client, or mount using the cifs filesystem type.

I'm the only person using Linux desktop in $DAYJOB, so I'm the only one facing the November 7 deadline. What about away from my LAN? I would just VPN into my firewall and access the share that way.

Re:Time for tarsnap to reign supreme?

[Desler]

And why would your clients care what you want? I'd tell you to go take a hike.

Capitalism in action

[Locke2005]

Start a competing service! What's their business model? I'm thinking they don't get a lot of revenue from people running Linux...

Re:Capitalism in action

[Anonymous Coward]

Since Linux is installed on less than 5% of desktops, I'd say you're correct.

And I was being generous about that 5%.

Re:Capitalism in action

[Gavagai80]

Linux is used by a lot of people who other people ask for computer advice, both professionally and personally. I think they'll find the bad will costs them a lot more than maintaining support would've.

Re: Capitalism in action

[Anonymous Coward]

And MacDonald's is high quality food because lots of people eat it. Especially people who can't cook.

Re:Capitalism in action

[nukenerd]

Start a competing service! What's their business model? I'm thinking they don't get a lot of revenue from people running Linux...

But presumably you would only need to install 5% of the equipment and have only 5% of the support calls - probably far less calls for help as they are Linux users.

You know, there is a convenince shop near me. I'm pretty sure they have less than 5% of the World trade in groceries, yet somehow they make a business out of it.

I don't get it.

[xvan]

Isn't dropbox sync a userland application? Why does it care about the underlying FS?

Re:I don't get it.

[slack_justyb]

Isn't dropbox sync a userland application? Why does it care about the underlying FS?

It doesn't. Someone at Dropbox basically did this.

select fstype, isencrypted, count(1) from dropboxusers where ispaying='Y' and ostype='linux' group by fstype, isencrypted

And the answer was overwhelmingly the configuration they are moving to.

Re:I don't get it.

[93 Escort Wagon]

Isn't dropbox sync a userland application? Why does it care about the underlying FS?

Dropbox likes to worm its way into the operating system and get access it doesn’t need - I can only speculate that the sleazeballs are doing something behind the scenes with that access in an attempt to furtively monetize their users’ data.

I stopped using Dropbox on OS X when they got caught adding themselves into the system-wide accessibility permissions table without asking. Thing is, the service works just fine without that (I did it for a couple weeks, until I got tired of denying Dropbox’s repeated requests to “fix” my system). So why are they asking for it - can’t be for any reason the end user would want.

Re:I don't get it.

[tepples]

Dropbox sync depends on behaviors of extended attributes, some of which I imagine are implementation-defined.

Re:I don't get it.

[dryeo]

Yes, but ext4 is kind of broken in the EA department with a 4KB limit on them. Other then that, most file systems that support EAs are similar in support or more extended, eg file forks on Mac and streams on NTFS which don't have the usual 64KB limit.

Re:I don't get it.

[bill_mcgonigle]

And by random coincidence a former US Secretary of State came on as a board member.

Re:I don't get it.

[Bongo]

I saw mention somewhere, ages ago, that they wanted to present files which are not actually downloaded. So maybe they do need to mess with the filesystem.

Re:I don't get it.

[angel'o'sphere]

That is what they say, but why would that be the case? it makes no sense ...

Re:I don't get it.

[xvan]

FUSE (Filesystem in Userspace) would be enough for that.

Can't use the app?

[MAXOMENOS]

Okay. So question: why can't one use the web interface?

Re:Can't use the app?

[b0s0z0ku]

You can, but then you lose synchronization, and good luck dealing with large files over a slow connection.

Re:Can't use the app?

[Anonymous Coward]

and that differs from using their app how? filesystem attribs have no bearing on network traffic.

Why...

[Stormy Dragon]

...does the Dropbox App even care about the low level details of the file system? Shouldn't they all look the same to it from an API perspective?

Re:Why...

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah when I upload a file online, it usually have nothing to do with which file system I use...

Re:Why...

[ArchieBunker]

The same reason Gnome has its own virtual filesystem and systemd has a built in DNS server.

Re:Why...

[nnet]

and that is?

Re:Why...

[ffkom]

Their respective authors are greedy to assume a position of power that they neither deserve nor have any rational reason to be in.

I am not exaggerating: It was literally written already in one of the earlier documents from the systemd authors that their goal was to reach "world domination". And they were not kidding. It simply is their childhood fantasy.

Re:Why...

[Anonymous Coward]

I saw a food truck owner on TV saying the goal of his business was "to take over the world". I'm pretty sure I remember Torvalds, Stallman and Volkerding saying similar things throughout history. It's a rather common phrase that isn't meant to be taken seriously.

systemd does have an enormous share of problems. We'd do better to focus on the technical reasons that make it problematic, rather than getting distracted by facetious statements made by its authors.

Open source the client

[AlanBDee]

They should open source their linux client then. I bet this boils down to them thinking that it cost them more money to maintain the client then the number customers they will lose by not having it. I know for me their linux support was one of the reason why I have been a long time user.

Anyone know of a good way to automatically sync photos taken on Android and Apple phones to my NAS at home? At this point that's about the only super handy feature from Dropbox that I use.

Re:Open source the client

[arth1]

They should open source their linux client then. I bet this boils down to them thinking that it cost them more money to maintain the client then the number customers they will lose by not having it.

Or it boils down to National Security Letters telling them that someone wants access to the unencrypted data, on a file system that doesn't do automatic wiping.

Re:Open source the client

[b0s0z0ku]

Dropbox reads the data unencrypted from an unlocked encrypted filesystem, so it has the unencrypted data anyway. That was my first thought, too, but it doesn't make much sense.

Re:Open source the client

[dgatwood]

Trust me, not making sense never stopped the U.S. Government — particularly in the current administration.

Re: Open source the client

[Anonymous Coward]

Use EncFS. Dropbox can sync the encrypted files while you work with the decrypted data at another mount point.

Re:Open source the client

[Anonymous Coward]

Nextcloud?

Re:Open source the client

[Anonymous Coward]

Owncloud. Pretty much exactly the same thing as dropbox but you host it yourself, there are desktop and mobile apps for syncing

Re:Open source the client

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really true: you can sync to dropbox an encfs volume, witch is a normal
directory filled with a normal tree of dir and files. You access them unencrypted
of course, but via a non-sync-ed mountpoint. To be more clear (sorry, my English
is a bit poor):
  your encrypted data are in ~/.encrypted and appear to be something like
$ ls ~/.encrypted
      Od,edmu123333d/
        kIDydd93-Djhf ...
you access them mounting ~/.encrypted in ~/docs for instance
$ encfs ~/.encrypted ~/docs

Dropbox sync only ~/.encrypted so it does not get anything much usable...
Of course, you need on other machine to mount your encrypted data
somewhere to access them, so you need other OSes that can mount encfs
volumes.

Re: Open source the client

[Anonymous Coward]

git-annex with adb remote backend.

Re:Open source the client

[Anonymous Coward]

"Anyone know of a good way to automatically sync photos taken on Android and Apple phones to my NAS at home??"
OwnCloud

Re:Open source the client

[Anonymous Coward]

Anyone know of a good way to automatically sync photos taken on Android and Apple phones to my NAS at home? At this point that's about the only super handy feature from Dropbox that I use.

Look into "syncthing". Open source and maintained. No need for central server. Everything is encrypted(communications) and IIRC it uses a DHT to discover peers.

Re:Open source the client

[Anonymous Coward]

Syncthing turns out to be a nifty tool for that ... https://syncthing.net/ , so far had no problems with.

Re:Open source the client

[urusan]

I use plain old rsync on Android via Termux. I haven't set it up to sync automatically, but it looks like cron is available too.

For iOS, there seems to be similar tools like Termius.

Admittedly, this approach isn't very slick, there's no nice UI. However, rsync is fast, reliable, open source, highly customizable, secure, etc. and it's not that complicated to do the basics.

Why uses Dropbox?

[goosesensor]

What Linux user uses drop box? You're doing it wrong.

Re:Why uses Dropbox?

[Anonymous Coward]

I notice how a punk ass bitch like you doesn't say what is right though. Could it be you're too afraid for being called out as the piece of shit that you are? I think so.

Re:Why uses Dropbox?

[tepples]

What Linux user uses drop box?

A Linux user whose client happens to use Windows.

Re:Why uses Dropbox?

[Anonymous Coward]

We're laughing at you because you can't figure it out. Ha, ha, ha, ha!

Re:Why uses Dropbox?

[bill_mcgonigle]

My ex was a member of a chorus that uploaded their practice tapes to dropbox for distro/sync. A desktop shortcut on Fedora made this trivial for her to access.

What's wrong with that use case from your perspective? Did you forget we're trying to grow the userbase?

Re:Why uses Dropbox?

[n3r0.m4dski11z]

Using dropbox doesnt mean you have to put your banking details and passwords on it. I personally use dropbox to transfer files to relatives and business contacts with self destructing links. Incredibly useful!

Re:Why uses Dropbox?

[thegarbz]

I know right! Personally I use OneDrive!

Re:Why uses Dropbox?

[golgotha007]

I use Dropbox and I'm a long time Linux user. You can't find a cheaper online storage solution.

When you use with EncFs, all your data on the Dropbox side is encrypted at the file level and the sync client works amazingly well. What's a cheaper, faster solution?

Re:Why uses Dropbox?

[apoc.famine]

Ok, you teach my mom how to transfer files some other way then.

Trust me, I've tried. But nothing is easier than dropbox. She clicks the folder, drags and drops, and done. Anything else requires logins and passwords and remembering how to do things and where to go and where to click. She knows how to move files around in a file system. That's all that dropbox requires.

Re:Why uses Dropbox?

[Desler]

Yeah how dare people use things that you don't approve of!

Re:Why uses Dropbox?

[strikethree]

Wow! You sure received some hate for that comment. I do not think you deserved it.

Hey folks! Use rsync. It really is that simple.

Dropbox is garbage anyway

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are smart enough to use Linux why bother with this shit?

Ext4 not standard any more?

[jawtheshark]

What filesystem are you supposed to use then today? For my laptops I use ext4 on top of lvm, ok top of LUKS. For my desktops, it's without LUKS.

I thought ext4 was still pretty much standard.

Why does a synchronisation system even concern itself with filesystems?

Re:Ext4 not standard any more?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ext4 is still common and a sensible default. RedHat is investing in xfs and so some people are anticipating a trend of increasing xfs usage in that camp, eating into ext4 market share via Fedora and enterprise deployments. Some people are still hoping for btrfs to somehow take over but that remains a someone fringe group of naive or risk tolerant folks.

I don't think there is any strong technical justification for the Dropbox decision. It shouldn't be hard to use xattrs in a way that is portable across all common Linux filesystems. I could imagine them having more trouble with the various notification/event layers to try to detect change. Honestly, to make a portable sync tool you nearly always have to fall back to async polling once you hit the general case, whether due to transient lost events or resource limits for subscription and notification mechanisms on very large hierarchies.

I imagine it's a business decision of not wanting to spend resources on QA and support calls for different combinations of Linux environments. It offends those of us who know it ought to work, in the same sense that any open source code would work regardless of whether the author personally tested on our particular system.

Re:Ext4 not standard any more?

[Anonymous Coward]

I thought ext4 was still pretty much standard.

It still is. OP doesn't know what he's talking about.

Some distributions began using XFS or Btrfs by default mostly for the 'novelty' factor (I don't think there is any significant point for system/home partitions). Apparently mostly Red Hat and its derivatives, along with OpenSUSE.

F2FS, for flash memory/SSDs, seems to be more or less equivalent to ext4 now, performance-wise, but I don't see much point either.

Unless you have a very specific use-case, ext4 is still the way to go, flash/SSD or not.

For encryption, cryptsetup/dm-crypt, with or without LUKS, is still the way to go too.

If you don't have a specific use-case for LVM, it's not needed (although I think you need some tools coming with it, for using dm-crypt, so it might still be required to keep it installed).

Why does a synchronisation system even concern itself with filesystems?

Because bullshit.

More importantly, there shouldn't be a requirement for a specific tool, or even a proprietary API.

Re:Ext4 not standard any more?

[Eravnrekaree]

ext4 is not the end all of filesystems. ZFS and btrfs has far more capabilities. zfs for now being the more mature of the two. Plus, you have distributed filesystems such as CephFS. There is also XFS. These filesystems have many great features so there are reasons some people would use them.

Re:Ext4 not standard any more?

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally I use Nilfs2, mostly because it protect me from accidental deletion
or overwrite, at any fs write() it automatically create a "checkpoint" than last
for a user-configured period (5', 1h, a day whatever you want) and can be
easily converted on-the-fly to a mountable snapshot.

So if I accidentally delete a file or I accidentally save a document with some
modification I do not want I can recover "lost" information in a snap. With classic
fs, including the ones that support live snapshots like zfs, btrfs and xfs to name
the most popular, I can't recover a modification done *after* the last snapshot
was taken.

Nilfs2 is mainline in Linux since years, it's really slowly developed and being
born for specific server usage it's not much comfortable by default on a desktop,
you require a bit o free space or aggressive cleaning strategy to avoid found
your /home or any other volume full but it can be used, it's SSD friendly by nature
and it perform well enough to be on ANY fs, / included.

Re:Ext4 not standard any more?

[piojo]

Right around the time people were starting to consider BTRFS stable enough to use, I gave it a real try. Hosted my home partition on it, and maybe some others. It was a dumpster fire. Applications that had had no performance problems started hanging for thirty seconds at a time. I've never heard of such latency.

That was a few years ago. How is it now, on a system with just one hard disk?

Re:Ext4 not standard any more?

[Anonymous Coward]

Usable as a daily driver, but it's better if you skim the thread titles on the btrfs mailing list for a minute or two and judge yourself.

Re:Ext4 not standard any more?

[thegarbz]

Why does a synchronisation system even concern itself with filesystems?

Because of what it is trying to become. Dropbox has stopped being a glorified rsync a long time ago and is actively chasing OneDrive for feature parity. Things like presenting additional information to users about the status of the files, or presenting phantom files to users downloaded on demand. There's lots of reasons why syncing tools would care about the underlying filesystem.

Same reason why you can't run OneDrive on a FAT32 system half the features wouldn't work since they depend on additional features the filesystem have to offer.

Now that's why it would concern itself with it, as to whether there was a technical assessment by Dropbox on linux filesystems or they just decided to give everyone the middle finger and not dedicate any programming resources to the client is a different discussion.

Re:Ext4 not standard any more?

[Anonymous Coward]

On my laptops I put my FS straight on LUKS :

```
$ lsblk
NAME MAJ:MIN RM SIZE RO TYPE MOUNTPOINT
nvme0n1 259:0 0 238,5G 0 disk
nvme0n1p1 259:1 0 953M 0 part /boot
nvme0n1p2 259:2 0 237,6G 0 part
    nvme0n1p2 253:0 0 237,6G 0 crypt /
```

Re:Ext4 not standard any more?

[Anonymous Coward]

ZFS is garbage, the more it's filled, the slower it becomes. After 80% it starts to crawl. The only FS we will use in production is ext4, hands down.

Use dm-crypt

[Anonymous Coward]

Encrypt the volume using dm-crypt and then put an ext4 filesystem on top of that. To everyone concerned it will look like a clean ext4.

Done.

But still let them have it for being lazy.

So much wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

First, don't store your data with dropbox. It's not encrypted.
Second, why would dropbox care if the underlying volume is encrypted if the ext4 fs supports their extended attrs? Clearly this is BS.
Third, don't use fucking cloud storage providers that don't allow you control over the encryption of the storage, or with 0 encryption like dropbox.

Cryptomator

[found404]

Not a dropbox user but is Cryptomator an option here?

Dropbox is just a crutch for bad OSes.

[Anonymous Coward]

Dropbox just re-creating functionality, built into Linux/Unix. Badly.

We have sshfs mounts, One-click "cloud" solutions, dynamic dns clients, etc, available in our package managers. And <$5 rentable web hosting. Hell, put a Linux "cloud server" image onto a microSD card, stick it in a Rasperry Pi, add a USB disk, enable dynamic DNS, and you haer your own Dropbox. With blackjack and hookers.

Dropbox was always a solution for a problem that never existed under Linux/Unix in the first place. (Excluding Ubunu-likes, obviously.)

Re:Dropbox is just a crutch for bad OSes.

[tepples]

put a Linux "cloud server" image onto a microSD card, stick it in a Rasperry Pi, add a USB disk, enable dynamic DNS, and you haer your own Dropbox.

Dynamic DNS won't help you if your home network is behind a carrier-grade network address translation (CGNAT) operated by your Internet service provider.

Dropbox was always a solution for a problem that never existed under Linux/Unix in the first place.

Such as not all of your collaborators who use Windows or macOS for other reasons necessarily being willing to install "Linux/Unix" into a virtual machine through which to access your shared folder.

Re:Dropbox is just a crutch for bad OSes.

[Yosho]

We have sshfs mounts, One-click "cloud" solutions, dynamic dns clients, etc, available in our package managers. And <$5 rentable web hosting. Hell, put a Linux "cloud server" image onto a microSD card, stick it in a Rasperry Pi, add a USB disk, enable dynamic DNS, and you haer your own Dropbox. With blackjack and hookers.

Doing all of those things still won't provide you with:
- A backend with a web interface
- Automatic rolling backups of every file
- Automatic synchronization and redundancy between multiple devices
- The ability to share files with other people, either publicly or with authenticated read-only or read/write access

To be fair, you can do that if you also put something like ownCloud on top of it all -- but now you're adding hours of setup time for an experienced admin (days or weeks for a newbie), plus the onus is on you to keep abreast of security vulnerabilities, manage your own backups, and handle upgrades. For <$5, by the way, you're not going to get much disk space or bandwidth.

For the average user, your suggestion is so laughably bad that it's hard to believe you actually mean it.

Re:Dropbox is just a crutch for bad OSes.

[Anonymous Coward]

That ISP is garbage.

Re:Dropbox is just a crutch for bad OSes.

[tepples]

Some people will move to be within the service area of a non-garbage ISP. Most won't.

Re:Dropbox is just a crutch for bad OSes.

[Jerry]

The ownCloudSync system lets you always have your latest files wherever you are. Just specify one or more folders on the local machine and a server to synchronize to. You can configure more computers to synchronize to the same server and any change to the files on one computer will silently and reliably flow across to every other.

Dolphin ownCloud is an extension that integrates the ownCloud web service with the Plasma Desktop (KDE).

Re:Dropbox is just a crutch for bad OSes.

[Anonymous Coward]

Having only CGNAT access to the Internet would be akin to having a place to live but no possibility of inviting other people over or receiving parcels in your name. It's not totally useless but it shouldn't be considered 'real' Internet access, much like a homeless people shelter shouldn't be considered proper, permanent housing.

FUSE?

[reanjr]

I wonder if it's possible to mount a virtual ext4 filesystem for your Dropbox folder using FUSE. So, even if you have an encrypted home folder, you can have an unencrypted filesystem mounted inside of it.

Re:FUSE?

[apoc.famine]

I'm just going to install dropbox in WINE.

Yeah, more money in iTard livestock.

[Anonymous Coward]

Far easier, to milk the hipstard morons and manager dads.

By selling them something for money, that is available in Linux out of he box. (There are Dropbox-like "cloud" server images that you can put on any computer, including routers and $5 vservers, and which include dynamic DNS, so you can even run them from your home line for free.

Childish

[Anonymous Coward]

Why are you using a remote storage server? A USB3 one TB drive is less than $100. Keep your files local using rsync.

Re:Childish

[tepples]

One reason to lease hosting for file sync instead of maintaining an rsync server at home is that your home Internet access plan might not have a dedicated IPv4 address that allows incoming connections to your rsync server.

Re:Childish

[KiloByte]

might not have a dedicated IPv4 address

Sounds like you already have a solution on mind. One that comes with 18446744073709551616 or possibly even 1208925819614629174706176 dedicated addresses. And even if your ISP sucks balls, you can always get a tunnel.

Re:Childish

[Anonymous Coward]

- Dynamic IP address is solvable by renting cheap VPS. Use the VPS box for sending, receiving your home internet IP address (via simple API, encrypted preferably).
- ISP disallows incoming connection for your home internet connection, means that your ISP is garbage.

Re:Childish

[tepples]

- Dynamic IP address is solvable by renting cheap VPS. Use the VPS box for sending, receiving your home internet IP address (via simple API, encrypted preferably).

Once you've rented a VPS, why not just use it for the file storage?

- ISP disallows incoming connection for your home internet connection, means that your ISP is garbage.

Some countries have a much smaller allocation of IPv4 addresses per person than the United States or countries in western Europe. In these countries, all home ISPs are garbage by your definition, and only business-class plans aren't.

Politically correct decision

[Anonymous Coward]

This looks like a politically correct decision. Liberals do not like encryption and this seems to be what is behind it. Government pressure might be in it also.

Re:Politically correct decision

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you blathering about, trumpa-lumpa? This liberal and all my liberal friends like encryption just fine, in fact we insist on it.

Re: Politically correct decision

[Anonymous Coward]

Liberals like encryption, conservatives like encryption when it is explained to them.

Republicans dislike encryption and Democrats extra-dislike encryption. Both seek to ban it, and, lacking the will to do so legislatively, rely on national security letters that cannot be disclosed.

Wray is getting press for being anti-encryption, but all the Obama cronies fought it too- the press jist didn't cover it much.

Re:Politically correct decision

[Anonymous Coward]

Liberals love censorship when work on their interests.

Re:Politically correct decision

[Anonymous Coward]

No you don't. #MAGA

Re:Politically correct decision

[Anonymous Coward]

#Make 'merka Greedy Again.

What's Dropbox? It supported Linux?

[Anonymous Coward]

The people I know who use DB access files from or on their corporate network, when they're not supposed. The no USB, but want to share these pics and docs crowd.

Either bogus reason or ignorance

[davidwr]

Either this isn't the real reason they are dropping support, or the person who made the decision is incompetent or ignorant.

If it's the first, fine, just come clean with the real reason. "We'd rather spend or resources improving the product on other platforms" would at least be a reason I couldn't call bogus.

If the decision was made incompetently or in ignorance, then it should be revisited.

Linux will never be mainstream

[Anonymous Coward]

The fact is that "Linux as a Desktop" is never going to happen. It's always going to be Windows and a lesser extent MacOS that will get support.

Linux had a golden, GOLDEN opportunity during the backlash of Windows 8 to try and convince people. But they didn't and that time has passed and Windows 10, despite all the flaws it has, has washed any chance of that happening away forever.

The only reason there are native Linux versions of Steam games was because Valve was pushing SteamOS and Steam Machines, and I expect with the failure of those that Linux support will eventually be phased out entirely. Very few big-name games have Linux ports today and even Indie games are starting to skip Linux (Into the Breach, They Are Billions, etc...). Some of them work just fine in WINE, but to get others to work is like performing brain surgery blind with a rusty knife. The devs of They Are Billions have all but said that there won't be a Linux version because .NET is too ingrained in the game's code. Some people have gotten it to work on WINE but it's really hit and miss... two people following the exact same directions often won't have the same results in getting it to run because WINE itself is unreliable and a single hardware or package difference can spell disaster.

People like and stick with Windows because "it just works". As someone wisely said here before, Windows is united while Linux is "50,000 nerds with their own vision of what UI and software you should use". I've switched from Windows 10 to Linux recently but I've come to realize very quickly that it's never going to be anything more than a niche OS and that various software I use might end up unsupported at any time.

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[Mal-2]

While I generally agree with your point, running Windows in no way guarantees that the software you use won't end up unsupported. I've had to upgrade software many times to accompany a newer version of Windows. In a few cases, I was unable to do so because that software was no longer in production.

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[jmccue]

I usually ignore AC, but seeing you kind of agree with him I decided to reply.

With built in spyware Windows now have and the new DaaS push, I will gladly keep using a "non-mainstream OS". No wonder Dropbox is dropping Linux, Linux has no included spyware enabled that dropbox can leverage

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[Jerry]

The year 2005 is calling, asking you to return its opinion.

Windows is so great that all 500 super computers run it? Oh ... wait ....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[nnet]

Because 99% of Joe Q. Public has a supercomputer.

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[brantondaveperson]

I made a serious attempt recently to give Linux another shot. I'd acquired a machine from work, on which I planned to install Ubuntu, and use for audio and video work. In particular, I wanted to produce some radio on it, and use it for a while in a video installation work.

Ubuntu installed just fine, and appeared to work pretty well. I thought I'd give Steam a try, since my kids love video games, and they were keen to see how well it would work. Steam installed, but neither my login, nor any of my kids, could be entered. They'd all come back with 'incorrect password', even though we were all one-hundred percent certain that we had entered our passwords correctly.

So I gave up on Steam - secretly a little relieved that the kids wouldn't be able to usurp the machine when their friends visited. I installed Dropbox, but found that what I actually got was a command-line interface with no UI at all, but it did appear to work. Without a UI, of course, there's no way of telling that it's continuing to work, or that new files have been added, or whatever, but it did work.

Then I tried to install some audio and video software. I downloaded and built Ardour, after following some reasonably complex but more-or-less correct instructions. Ardour crashed. I opened it again, and this time I was able to enter the wonderful world of Linux audio.

JACK? ALSA? Pulse Audio? It is 2018, audio is not complicated. Linux, please, just come up with a single solution and make it work. Every other OS has managed this. Audio on OSX works perfectly. Audio on Windows is a bit flaky, and has pretty high latency out of the box, but it does work. Audio on Linux is DOA.

So I tried Ubuntu Studio - the separate installation package for "digital artists". Why there would need to be a separate OS package for people who actually would like their audio to work properly is a bit beyond me, but it did what it said on the tin. It also came with Ardor pre-installed, and working. A great step in the right direction.

It's worth nothing that at this point we are now about seven days of evenings into this task. That's quite a bit of time to get a base OS install working, but I suppose I should have just installed Ubuntu Studio in the first place.

With the audio installation more-or-less happy, I tried video. I'd planned to use Processing to build some real-time video processing software, since what I wanted to do wasn't CPU intensive, just memory intensive, and Processing is reasonably easy to use. Not easy to google for, but easy enough to use.

Processing installed fine. I tried one of their online video examples, tried installing the video library. Processing crashed. Tried again, Processing complained about being unable to load libraries.

I gave the fuck up. I installed Windows using my MSDN licence from work. It just worked. The end.

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[brantondaveperson]

Linux is no better in 2018. Flashier, but no better. It's great on servers, wonderful on embedded devices, but it's a hopeless desktop machine.

There are people at my work who use Linux on their laptops. Guess what happens when they try to extend their monitor onto a projector? Guess which machines crash when they come out of sleep? Or wake up, but with the audio broken?

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[mrvan]

Thanks for sharing!

Can you leave your nerd badge on the table when you leave?

Re: Linux will never be mainstream

[dunkelfalke]

Are you confusing nerds with masochists?

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[Anonymous Coward]

When it comes to Steam in Linux, always install it via your distro's package manager and not manually or via Synaptic or else you'll probably be in for a world of problems. Even then, you should expect something to not work right.

When I tried to install it in MX Linux through their package manager, it complained about a missing library and refused to install. And this was in the most recent (monthly) snapshot of the OS! Sure, I was able to fix it by googling how to and using the terminal, but in supposed newbie "Out of the Box" distros that's unacceptable.

No matter what, something will eventually go wrong and you'll be forced to use the terminal so you'd better hope you have some rudimentary experience or that your OS isn't hosed enough that you can still use Google.

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[apoc.famine]

What decade was this?

Because it's 100% bullshit, as far as I can tell. I'm typing this on Ubuntu with a little Dropbox icon in the top right which opens the Dropbox folder. And I use steam all of the time with no issues.

Do your VCRs blink 12:00 all of the time too?

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[Anonymous Coward]

ALSA still exists? I thought that died with KDE 3.5 at the end of the last decade?

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[walterbyrd]

> Guess which machines crash when they come out of sleep? Or wake up, but with the audio broken?

I've been using Linux for 20 years, never had those problems.

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[Anonymous Coward]

This kind of comments are very good to have here on Slashdot. They keep the non-technical people and the problems they bring with them away from Linux.

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[brantondaveperson]

It was last week.

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[brantondaveperson]

I know you people always blame the user when Linux fails to perform, but the reality is that it simply doesn't work very well for audio and video much of the time. The response to anybody raising a problem with Linux is always, one hundred percent of the time, that you're doing it wrong. Some irony there, since when Apple told you you were holding your phone wrong, you all as one howled with laughter. If I install an OS, plug in a standard USB audio device, and it doesn't work out of the box, then the OS is broken.

Here's an example of a workaround for Steam not working properly on Ubuntu:

LD_LIBRARY_PATH="$LD_LIBRARY_PATH:/usr/lib32/nvidia-346/:/usr/lib/nvidia-346/" steam

Face it: Linux is not for users.

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[brantondaveperson]

Are you offering to fix my Linux install?

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[apoc.famine]

I can set microwave clocks too. $50/hr, travel costs billed separately.

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[brantondaveperson]

I'm fortunate enough to have managed to find a microwave that does not feel obliged to tell me the time. I have hung an actual clock on the wall above it instead. I'm sorry that you haven't had the same luck. So while I do appreciate your offer, I will have to decline. Regarding the linux install, how about I upload a disk image to Dropbox instead? That way we can save on the travel costs. Payment is dependent on the install actually working, naturally.

Re:Linux will never be mainstream

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows? Ill see myself out.

One word, fellas

[war4peace]

Backblaze B2.
Or SpiderOak.

Re:One word, fellas

[trawg]

SpiderOak are discontinuing their warrant canary, which some are speculating that it means their canary is dead & they have been compromised.

They are also offering a short-term unlimited backup plan (which expires today). The close timing of that & the canary announcement is a little interesting. I was literally about to sign up to move away from Dropbox when I heard the warrant canary thing and it was confusing/disturbing enough to make me hold off.

Re:One word, fellas

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not one word that's ermm 5? no 8, no dammit 7 ooh so close - ahh! 4 words, yes 4 words definitely 4.

Re:One word, fellas

[war4peace]

Is B2 a word?
Countered by SpiderOak” being two words fused together :)

zvols.

[0100010001010011]

zfs create -V 10G tank/ext4
mkfs.ext4 /dev/zvol/tank/ext4
mount /dev/zvol/tank/ext4 /mnt/dropbox/

Plus you get snapshots, zfs-send, and all the other goodies that come with it.

Re: zvols.

[bestweasel]

Fine if you have 10G unallocated and Dropbox don't check the root partition.

Re:zvols.

[faedle]

Given that's about as many command line steps required to set up a mirror on AWS, what's the point?

At the point you are treating Dropbox as a hostile agent, why are you even bothering? There's quite literally hundreds of options for doing the same thing Dropbox does, from Google Drive to setting up your own instance of ownCloud.

What does dropbox do?

[Anonymous Coward]

I always thought Dropbox was just like a FTP service (except deliberately non-standard) for people who were too lazy (*) to install an FTP server. Don't you just send/receive files? How would they even know what filesystem you're using? How can they "support" any filesystem, even ext4?

* By "too lazy" I mean any excuse, like not having a static address. Whatever.

One word....

[Anonymous Coward]

Monetization. They can't monetize what they can't read, and they can't cheaply and reliably read the 'Linux filesystem of the week' or encrypted filesystems.

Re:One word....

[Mal-2]

Why can't they? They were up until now.

Re:One word....

[BronsCon]

My text editor doesn't give a shit what filesystem I'm using. There's no real reason Dropbox should, either; they're doing file-level transactions, not block-level.

Re:One word....

[110010001000]

You don't understand. They are scanning the contents of the data you upload. They can't do that if it is encrypted.

Re:One word....

[BronsCon]

No, I understand perfectly well. If it's encrypted at the filesystem level, it's not encrypted at the file level.

Do you think every application you use handles filesystem encryption itself?

You're the one who, clearly, does not understand.

Re:One word....

[Anonymous Coward]

My text editor doesn't give a shit what filesystem I'm using.

I'm sure there's got to be an emacs joke in there somewhere.

Re:One word....

[piojo]

Of course it can. Once the data is mounted without encryption, applications that access it (via the mount point) care nothing for filesystem, raid, or encryption details. With some exceptions like extended attributes and other non-standardized features, which an application like Dropbox doesn't need.

Re:One word....

[thegarbz]

My text editor doesn't give a shit what filesystem I'm using. There's no real reason Dropbox should, either;

Your text editor isn't in the business of presenting files to users in a way that is not traditional to the system itself. Your text editor doesn't notify the user via the file explorer that files are currently in a certain state (open, locked, awaiting sync, experienced sync errors, etc). Your text editor also isn't in the cloud storage business, a business that is moving more and more to actual cloud operation rather than being a glorified copy of rsync. Your text editor is not presenting phantom files to the OS which are downloaded on demand.

In summary, your text editor works with text. Dropbox works with files on a very fundamental level. It stands to reason that they need to care about the underlying filesystem.

Now as to the actual reasons why they depreciated support, I'm sure it's far more nefarious than that, but there's actual technical reasons why a program like Dropbox needs to understand the abilities of the underlying filesystem and not treat it as a dumb pipe via some API.

Re:One word....

[ElizabethGreene]

With some exceptions like extended attributes and other non-standardized features, which an application like Dropbox doesn't need.

Dropbox does some slightly different functions than a normal file system application. It needs to know when a file has been modified so it can sync it, what was modified in the file so it can delta sync, and keep track of file locks for open files so it can track versioning accurately. They may very well have a legitimate use for extended attributes; it is not a safe assumption that they don't need them.

The checksums used for file change tracking specifically would be an excellent candidate for extended attributes. This is, coincidentally, one of the specific use cases cited in the getfattr man page.

The $64,000 question is "Most filesystems support these. What's special about ext4? Are you seeing bugs in the other filesystem implementations?" ...

Re:One word....

[golgotha007]

Just use EncFs

Re:One word....

[BronsCon]

In summary, your text editor works with text. Dropbox works with files on a very fundamental level. It stands to reason that they need to care about the underlying filesystem.

Dropbox reads and writes files using the same filesystem drivers as every other application. It reads and modifies file attributes through those drivers, as well. Anything it does at the filesystem level can be achieved with the mv, rm, cat, chmod, touch, and mkfifo commands.

there's actual technical reasons why a program like Dropbox needs to understand the abilities of the underlying filesystem and not treat it as a dumb pipe via some API.

No, not really. Look at OwnCloud's sync app as an example of how all of the things DropBox does can be done on any filesystem, on any OS, treating the filesystem as a dumb pipe via some API. Including notifying users via their file browser that files are in a certain state (done via OS-level APIs that may or may not exist at the filesystem level). On Windows, you do this via Overlay Handlers, you use Finder Sync Extensions on a Mac. On Linux, the method varies based on window manager (not filesystem) but there exists at least one library for that; the bonus is that it's cross-platform. Phantom downloads are easily done using named pipes and filesystem monitors, which are used by every realtime-scanning antivirus, exist at the OS level, and are filesystem independent. With a little creativity, I'm sure you can figure out how it's done. Here's a hint: the named pipes don't exist until you open the directory.

For damn good reason, most operating systems prevent direct-to-disk modification of a mounted filesystem (e.g. bypassing the driver for writes), which makes much of what Dropbox does simply impossible on those systems unless it's done via the filesystem driver APIs. Since you can't mount a filesystem twice, Dropbox accessing the filesystem directly would require the OS to unmount it and cede control to Dropbox; which would leave the OS (and thus the user) unable to access the files contained therein. As additional food for thought: if Dropbox were accessing the filesystem directly, think about it, it wouldn't work on a Mac at all, as Apple filesystems are proprietary, meaning that the Dropbox team would have no way of writing interface code for Apple's filesystems. Yet it works on a Mac.

In short, Dropbox is very much accessing files the same way your text editor does. It does a few things with those files that your text editor probably doesn't do, but it's not reading directly from, nor writing directly to, your disk.

Re:One word....

[BronsCon]

Ugh... that 3rd link should only be on the word "library".

Re:One word....

[Anonymous Coward]

My text editor doesn't give a shit what filesystem I'm using.

I'm sure there's got to be an emacs joke in there somewhere.

That WAS it.

Re:One word....

[BronsCon]

They may very well have a legitimate use for extended attributes

And Linux filesystem drivers expose APIs for those...

This is, coincidentally, one of the specific use cases cited in the getfattr man page.

And getfattr doesn't care what filesystem it's reading those attributes off of, because it makes use of the APIs to read them.

Re:One word....

[Anonymous Coward]

My text editor doesn't give a shit what filesystem I'm using. There's no real reason Dropbox should, either; they're doing file-level transactions, not block-level.

The question that begs to be asked is: Can we "fool" the Dropbox client into believing they are syncing from an ext4 partition?

Not your servers. Eat a dick gais!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a bunch of people need to stop supporting BigBrother companies like DropCox.

Filesystem within a filesystem...

[glenebob]

dd if=/dev/zero of=StupidDropbox.fs bs=4096 count=
mke2fs -t ext4 StupidDropbox.fs
mkdir StupidDropbox
mount StupidDropbox.fs StupidDropbox

Re:Filesystem within a filesystem...

[Anonymous Coward]

mount StupidDropbox.fs StupidDropbox

I don't use dropbox, but a better use might be to create the file that is a file system locally with encryption and all the rest. Then transfer the encrypted file system to dropbox. That way it would just be ordinary storage.

Re:Filesystem within a filesystem...

[gtwrek]

Continuing...

dd if=/dev/urandom of=StupidDropbox/crypt.fs bs=4096 count=
mk-foo-fs -t foofs StupidDropbox/crypt.fs # Where foo is your favorite encrypted filesystem
mkdir StupidDropbox/encrypted
mount StupidDropbox/crypt.fs StupidDropbox/encrypted

Make sure your encryption keys are NOT stored anywhere near the dropbox partition. Dropbox will only sync the inner filesystem when it is unmounted.
But I've found the Dropbox sync'ing mechanism is quite clever and runs fast. (This might imply a security hole if an attacker has access to various sync deltas. But that's quite a difficult attack IMHO. Caveat emptor, I'm no security expert, blah, blah)

Upsides: Your root filesystem is whatever type you like. Your Dropbox data is encrypted. It still works when they turn off non-ext4 support.
Downsides: A little performance (not much - linux loopback devices are quite efficient). Only can access encrypted partitions from other linux-like boxes. And only can mount the encrypted partition (with write privileges) on one system at a time. (As many read -only mounts as you want)

Re:Filesystem within a filesystem...

[Anonymous Coward]

Make sure your encryption keys are NOT stored anywhere near the dropbox partition.

lol. Who stores their encryption keys anywhere on the disk? I reboot my system once every 3 months and type my 384 bit key every time.

Re: Filesystem within a filesystem...

[Anonymous Coward]

Aha! So the key is in RAM. Thanks for the clue

Re: Filesystem within a filesystem...

[lsllll]

Aha! So the key is in RAM. Thanks for the clue

Are you demented? Are you saying it's actually better to have the key stored on a file system? Because, at the end, it all ends up in RAM anyways. It HAS to remain in RAM for the encryption to work.

I said “fuck them” long ago

[Pig Hogger]

When it started, I looked at it, and I said “fuck them” when I read in their TOS that they don’t allow encryption.

Fuck them.

Re:I said “fuck them” long ago

[wonkey_monkey]

Where does it say that?

Good

[Tsolias]

now people will wake up and move to mega

syncthing

[kaoshin]

https://syncthing.net/ works amazingly well as an alternative to Dropbox, and it also isn't managed by a board which includes Condoleeza Rice.

Re:syncthing

[tzanger]

This is what I've been using to synchronize my projects folder across four computers (one being a roaming laptop and one being a file server with undelete). I think my folder size is on the order of 50G now and it's still working pretty decently. Occasionally it gets a little confused because OSX's filesystem is case insensitive by default, but it's never lost my data. I love this software.

Re: syncthing

[Anonymous Coward]

This.

I use it across a windows machine, a couple of android devices, a Linux laptop, and a Linux server. Everything is everywhere, no 3rd party is needed, and it seems to sync via the local network write happily.

Re:syncthing

[mackul]

I guess it was even Condi's advice to exclude encrypted files so her friends from the NSA can get easier access to your files. ;-) No, I'm no conspirational theorist: I transgressed that state and am now a transpirational theorist!

Re:syncthing

[Anonymous Coward]

nor can it be accessed by ios devices.

Re: syncthing

[nnet]

no ios support. shame. I would have used it.

Client side encryption

[andrewbaldwin]

I don't know why they're doing this but as a separate yet related question:

Who would put anything sensitive into Dropbox, Google Drive... without encrypting it first?

Even if you have the "I use Linux but I have to share files with Windows / MacOS clients" scenario it's still perfectly feasible to use a TrueCrypt (or VeraCrypt) container to hold your files (from experience, it's better to use a lot of smaller ones rather than a big container as it's likely that any change will involve transferring the whole thing each time).

I believe that there are some Android apps that are compatible with a subset of TrueCrypt settings but I've not tried them.

bcrypt and ccrypt seem to be portable between Linux and MacOS [haven't tried with Windows].

Bonus points for renaming the file to hide any give-away info in the extensions; if you get a message saying 'mydoc.pdf appears to be corrupted' you'll know that someone's tried to spy and just hit a load of binary data :-)

So, for anything remotely sensitive, I'd do encryption under my control before using anyone else's remote storage.

All that being said - I'm considering moving what very little I have in off-site storage into an instance of ownCloud or NextCloud on a spare machine under MY control.

On yet another side issue (although still related to use of off-site storage):

For remote storage I'm looking for a good waterproof/airtight lockable box so I can keep my weekly rsync backup away from my house [current USB hard drive is wrapped in multiple plastic bags and seems to survive OK but I'd like to improve on this]. Anyone got any recommendations?

Re:Bla B00M

[Anonymous Coward]

The Drop of the Drop Bo.X

can't see what you have

[renegade600]

I guess they want to see what you are storing and gather more information about you. cannot do it if it is encrypted.

Damn CenturyLink

[Anonymous Coward]

With a pathetic upload speed of less than 1m, I'm still trying to wrap my head around this cloud/dropbox thing. What's it used for?

OMG But muh free speech!

[Anonymous Coward]

Baby's first corporation. They change stuff and have the legal rights to do so.

Alternative

[thePsychologist]

If you want encryption and Dropbox on Linux, you can make a separate partition for the Dropbox folder that remains unencrypted. On that partition, store only files encrypted with a Fuse solution like encfs. When you need to edit, change stuff, mount the encfs partition in your regular home directory.

This prevents you from sharing stuff over Dropbox, though if you are sharing stuff, you might as well just keep the shared stuff unencrypted on the separate partition.

All Right! This Calls For A Slashdot Poll

[careysub]

only Linux filesystem supported for storage of the Dropbox sync folder starting the 7th of November will be on a clean ext4 file system. This basically means Dropbox drops Linux support completely, as almost all Linux distributions have other file systems

As i happens I do have Dropbox on an ext4 partition - but I didn't think that made me a freak.

The gauntlet has been thrown down! We need a poll to survey /. readers for the file system they have on their Linux machine (you "other people" don't get to vote on this).

Snowflakes

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of Linux user trusts Dropbox? You asked for it.

People in 2018 are so fucking dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

Short attention span helper link:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/2455215/edward-snowden-dropbox-is-hostile-to-privacy.html

Dropbox wanys to dedup, hence no encryption

[Anonymous Coward]

They have a vested interest in disallowing encryption, so they can peek at files and dedup them to save themselves storage. It's been many years since I used them but I recall hearing they can map blocks within everyone's files that are identical to a single copy.

Oh, and spying requests/copyright enforcement I would think.

Nextcloud/owncloud and cron jobs with rsync to a few 4tb usb external drives are easy/cheap enough now that Dropbox and Google Drive are sort of irrelevant nowadays.

No more Dropbox?

[Anonymous Coward]

Fine ... go to OwnCloud! They have Linux, Windows and Mac clients. And, if it matters, they're open source.

Why wait?

I agree with dropbox

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet another reason to ban dropbox from our sales teams and execs.

Encryption is not the issue...

[bradley13]

This is an odd decision, given the high-quality Linux support that Dropbox has provided until now.

One question I want to ask: why would encrypting be an issue? Why would you bother to encrypt your files on your disk, if you upload them unencrypted to a cloud service outside your control? I have a lot of stuff in Dropbox, but I do encryption the other way around: Anything sensitive is in an encrypted folder (EncFS) inside my Dropbox folder. That folder is decrypted locally using Cryptkeeper or some equivalent. So my local disk is also unecrypted. This offers (imho) a lot of advantages, for example (a) my own ability to do data recovery in case of disaster, and (b) those encrypted files are also encrypted in backups.

I have used a paid Dropbox account for years now, because their service has been so reliable, and the Linux support so good. If they cripple Linux support, this will be the motivation I finally need to get OwnCloud (or similar) up and running locally.

I just migrated and closed the account

[paxmees]

I just migrated and closed my account. They will ask why you left.

Re:I just migrated and closed the account

[Anonymous Coward]

i left years ago when they appointed Condelesa Rice (sp?) for the board of directors. Dont miss them one bit.

Encryption costs them

[Andtalath]

The reason they want to avoid encrypted files is to avoid the issues around dedup and encrypted files.
The reason their service is so cheap is that they can use dedup very extensively, especially when people are storing the same documents.
This is way harder to do with encrypted files.

Terrible

[jukk]

I have dropbox on both ext4 and xfs. This would force me to migrate to another solution on all of my computers. The technical reason is totally wrong, I suspect marketing, financial reasons.

I don't get it

[beep54]

What IS it with large companies always trying to shoot themselves in both feet?

Good decision

[julian67]

Good decision by Dropbox as it's prompted me to have another look at SyncThing. I need sync across a couple of Android devices and multiple PCs, laptops, an x86 tablet and embedded devices, running variously Debian, Windows 10 and Armbian.

I tried Syncthing last year and it was frustrating to set up, didn't always sync, and didn't inspire confidence. Trying it again since getting the shitty Dropbox messages on my XFS based desktop and I am very pleasantly surprised. Set up has been easier and quicker and sync is working very quickly and reliably across WAN and LAN.

Am currently going through all my gear, uninstalling Dropbox and setting up Syncthing.

Goodbye Dropbox and fuck you very much!

Another nudge from a "cloud" provider.

[gromett]

I have slowly been moving away from "cloud" providers. This announcement has given me the nudge to take file sharing in house. Considering inotify to trigger rsync. I don't run Dropbox on any mobile devices and both my laptops and desktops are Linux although this solution won't be for everyone, I think it should work ok for me? Any thoughts?

Lets drop the dropbox

[Anonymous Coward]

Time to drop the Dropbox.

OneDrive as an alternative

[CruisinAdam]

I know Microsoft isn't the most popular company on Slashdot, but I've had great luck with an open source OneDrive client for syncing from Linux to OneDrive. It's available on github: https://github.com/skilion/one...

Re:OneDrive as an alternative

[CruisinAdam]

Sorry, old link, this fork is working much better for me: https://github.com/abraunegg/o...

rclone

[Anonymous Coward]

The dropbox native client sucks. Use https://rclone.org/

Encrypt-1024

[Anonymous Coward]

It does not sound like a good business plan if they have data on their cloud service that is not encrypted.
Is dropBox creating a paid service to FBI,CIA,NSA?

Workaround step-by-step

[metabubble]

I have written a step-by-step tutorial for a workaround if you are not using ext4 for your partitions. You can even keep your encryption! https://metabubble.net/linux/h...

Try pCloud. No such issues.

[Anonymous Coward]

The only limitation is you can only have up to 2TB per account. The client uses fuse to remote mount the directory. Works great for most things.

Move on from Dropbox!

[Anonymous Coward]

I can recommend you and I stand with this, pCloud, they are one of the best Dropbox alternatives, and most important their Linux client doesn't care about your file system.

I think that the separate pCloud drive that can be mounted or dismounted and doesn’t take space on my computer is very big advantage for pCloud over other cloud storages. Drive is very convenient and easy to use for new users. Ability to sync any folder is also very, very nice.

Solution

[Anonymous Coward]

###SOLUTION###

For those who want encryption, even ext4 partition won't work, I test it and Dropbox kept telling me that in Nov. it will stop syncing. So, it is not only Ext4, it has to be regular partition and not encrypted using LUKS or home dir encryption. That doesn't work for me and for millions out there, my solution: Create a veraCrypt encrypted 15G Ext4 virtual drive, place it under XFS physical partition, if possible, and move Dropbox to that veracrypt partition after mounting. 2 things accomplished in this trick: 1) My drive where my dropbox info is encrypted, 2) Dropbox doesn't know that this drive is encrypted :)

P.S

Here is my laptop overall layout and setup if you are interested:

After few months of testing xfce 4.12 using different Linux distribution. I settled on LinuxMint 19 xfce which is based on the Ubuntu 18.04 LTS. I am big fan of Dark themes and LinuxMint 19 xfce just nailed this thing down! For new comers or Linux Pro, I highly recommend LinuxMint 19 xfce for faster, elegant, lightweight, and modern LinuxOS which will work on most hardware.

Besides, I’d like to share the following setup: I have Toshiba Satellite i7 CPU, 16G RAM, and 750G HD 72RPM. So I divided my HD as follows: 65G for root / using btrfs, 55G for /home using LUKS encrypted partition and btrfs (At my home, I store only light weight stuff such documents and private documents using Dropbox – No Videos, Pictures, Downloads, ISO, or any heavy data at home partition) and the keep the rest of the space to /var using xfs instead.

Note, I don't use swap, if needed I will create a swap file later on using the home partition. So, since I don't use that much of data under home env, I create /var/users/imad/ path to dump my pictures, videos, Music, and Downloads, ISOs, VMs, and all heavy files in there since this partition using XFS file system. I delete the original Video, Music, Pictures, and Downloads, directories and create them under /var/users/imad/ then created soft links of these directories pointing to my home. Your millage for sure will vary than mine.

Besides, I use also Home encryption for my personal user as well, hence, no one can penetrate my home dir either at the local or network level.

Finally, I use Timeshift to take system snapshot (locally at root partition) using btrfs snapshots and I use BackInTime to take Full-backup of my whole drive to encrypted USB drive.

Note: I save my Veracrypt drobpx drive under /var/users/imad/ since it's xfs file system which is good for large files.

 

Alternatives?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, I hear a lot of "drop box is for the weak"...
I was using Gdrive, but they stopped linux support..
I use it for syncing some files with friends externally, and sync between multiple computers; Windows, Linux, and mine is dual-boot (Dropbox is on the NTFS partition).

If there's a better way to sync Windows, Linux, internal and externally, please let me know...?