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Seattle Airport Employee Steals Airplane, Crashes It Into the Ground (latimes.com)
An anonymous reader quotes the Los Angeles Times:
An airline worker stole an empty Alaska Airlines plane from Seattle-Tacoma International Airport in Washington on Friday night, and the National Guard scrambled two fighter jets to chase the aircraft, which crashed on a sparsely populated island in Puget Sound, officials said. No passengers were aboard the 76-seat Horizon Air Q400 turboprop plane, which was stolen by a 29-year-old Horizon Air ground service agent from Pierce County, according to airline and law enforcement officials.... The man was described as suicidal, and it appeared impossible that he could have survived the crash....
The plane made an unauthorized takeoff from the airport around 8 p.m. and crashed on Ketron Island, about five miles southwest of Tacoma, after the renegade pilot bantered erratically with air-traffic controllers who pleaded with him to land the plane, according to officials and dispatch audio. "This is probably jail time for life, huh?" said the man, identified on the radio as Rich, according to dispatch audio reviewed by the Seattle Times.... At another point, the employee said: "I'm gonna land it, in a safe kind of manner. I think I'm gonna try to do a barrel roll, and if that goes good, I'm just gonna nose down and call it a night...."
"Oh, my God! Oh, my God! He's OK? He's OK," one woman said in a video posted on Facebook, which showed at least one military jet in pursuit. It's not clear how long afterward the plane crashed.
The plane made an unauthorized takeoff from the airport around 8 p.m. and crashed on Ketron Island, about five miles southwest of Tacoma, after the renegade pilot bantered erratically with air-traffic controllers who pleaded with him to land the plane, according to officials and dispatch audio. "This is probably jail time for life, huh?" said the man, identified on the radio as Rich, according to dispatch audio reviewed by the Seattle Times.... At another point, the employee said: "I'm gonna land it, in a safe kind of manner. I think I'm gonna try to do a barrel roll, and if that goes good, I'm just gonna nose down and call it a night...."
"Oh, my God! Oh, my God! He's OK? He's OK," one woman said in a video posted on Facebook, which showed at least one military jet in pursuit. It's not clear how long afterward the plane crashed.
Endanger a whole lot of other people just because you are having issues.
I guess he missed the tower!
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
Reports say he was airborne for 90 minutes, performing 'stunts' before he went 'nose down'. A friend hear the radio chatter from the 'pilot' in real-time before he took his life.
News 'analysts' are already wondering why the two fighter jets didn't shoot down the stolen craft, which points out the limits of their understanding - firing missiles in a residential area to destroy a plane so debris can rain down is typically considered a bad idea, better to observe and be prepared to take action if it looks like he was going to hurt others.
I can't wait to hear we need to regulate who can buy flight simulator software to spare further 'copy-cat' tragedies!
Ken
So the plane could drop out of the sky?
How about a device to limit who can start a plane on the ground, you know, like an ignition key?
Ken
Q400 is one of the few planes used by US airlines that is tolerable to fly on. Sadly, they've mostly been phased out on Northeastern flights in the US, though they still do NYC-Toronto-Montreal service.
In all seriousness, glad no one other than the idiot who stole the plane was hurt. I'm surprised he was allowed to take off -- tower must have notices unauthorized movements. Could they have sent a fire truck or two to block it, or would that just have made the situation more dangerous?
Keyswitch is less reliable than a regular mechanical switch. Same even goes for electronic immobilizer systems. It may introduce other problems, like engines being unable to restart in flight or shutting down in flight. Not worth it for a one-in-100-million risk.
Did he have nail clippers in his pocket?
It seems like you could create a pretty safe system that is default mechanically open but which can be engaged to lock off the system. Make it only physically able to function while the gear is down, too.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Perhaps they could start putting a key in those things. Cars have had them since the 1920s. Might be a good place to start. Maybe in another 80 years they could put RFIDs in the key fobs.
We should not over react to a single one-off incident.
People tend to focus on things that are in the news, and ignore far more common problems. America has about 120 suicides per day. Some of those harm other people, such as "suicide by car crash". These happen everyday, not once per century.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Table-ized A.I.
'So what are you selling?'
(Magic) sea salt, of course.
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
Just a few days ago somebody killed themselves around here by jumping off a freeway overpass onto the freeway below. We've also had to install fencing along the Aurora Bridge because it was a popular place for people to jump off.
Beyond just the suicide itself and the impact it has on friends and family, it causes a ton of damage to the people who have to clean up afterwards as well as people that see it. Not to mention the people that wind up running over somebody that just moments earlier jumped off a bridge.
Suicide prevention is as you suggest something that we need to be taking more seriously. And we need to be taking it more seriously, not just in terms of direct prevention, but also in terms of addressing the lack of medical care available as well as the things which tend to push people towards the belief that they're in a position with no way out.
There's also the easy access to things like firearms that can be both fast and effective at suicide which we can't do much about because the 2nd amendment people don't give a crap about how many people are killed by their firearms as long as they can have their dick compensator.
And it only took what, 50-75 years for someone to steal a large commercial plane?
Ken
'Make it only physically able to function while the gear is down, too.'
So it (engine locked) can be engaged during take-off, approach, and landing; what could possibly go wrong?
(And weight on wheels is no better.)
Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
Keyswitch is less reliable than a regular mechanical switch.
Even if that was true you could use a locking cover with keys, code, RFID or whatever. I've heard the same excuse with military equipment and there I can kinda understand that you need to go NOW NOW NOW and there's no time to fiddle with keys. Not so much for civilian airplanes...
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Between 1983 and 2003 there were 36 suicides by aircraft in the United States. All of them were by pilots who would have had access to any "ignition key". Most likely this ground crew guy would have also had access to the key. It is not like the key would be kept in an underground safe with an armed guard. Most likely the pilot would hand it off to the ground crew as they exit the plane.
Sooner or later an incident would happen, such as an emergency landing crashing into a parked plane that couldn't be moved in time because the key was unavailable. Then the FAA would require a spare key to be kept in the cockpit (maybe in the glove compartment?) for "safety".
There's also the easy access to things like firearms that can be both fast and effective at suicide which we can't do much about because the 2nd amendment people don't give a crap about how many people are killed by their firearms as long as they can have their dick compensator.
So, you get done explaining how resourceful people are at finding ways to kill themselves (and, by explaining that guns are "fast," seem to be implying that getting crushed on the pavement of the freeway after a jump isn't?), and then suggest that people who want to retain the right to defend themselves are responsible for the behavior of people who want to kill themselves? Even if you were willing to amend the constitution and take away everyone's right to self defense (though of course, not take away millions of guns in the possession of criminals who don't care what you think), do you really think that would stop the thousands of drownings, hangings, wrist-slittings, ODs, jumps, asphyxiations, and all the rest, rather than actually INCREASE the number of those things?
Meanwhile, in a vain attempt to control people's agonized decisions to end their lives by controlling objects (but only for law-abiding people, the overwhelming majority of which never hurt themselves or anyone else with a gun), you're willing to prevent, say, my 5'2" wife from being able to defend herself because you think "those 2nd amendment people" (who are actually, you know, "Bill of Rights people). Such defensive uses of personal firearms occur hundreds of thousands of times every year, preventing and stopping violent crime. But you'd like to take away that means of self defense, and gamble on people bent on ending their own lives suddenly becoming less resourceful than they've been for all of human history. No, your actual agenda has nothing to do with suicide. Just be honest about it.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
He has a plan for all of us and yesterday was this guy's time to go.
Let us hope you are correct. The current state of the world is making more otherwise sane individuals take their own lives. Indeed we all need to become more gracious if we are to find peace and sanity in this God forsaken time. Suicide is not painless, in as much that it is a sin that harms deeply those who love you.
PS: it is a misnomer that GOD is a man, the real GOD IS ANDROGYNOUS and without sex organs or the need for them. As indeed is real love.
This message was not sent from an iPhone because Peter Sellers really was a deviated prevert without a dime for the call
Let's look at the facts:
1. In America, suicides are twice as common as homicides.
2. Only 10% of people that survive a suicide attempt go on to successfully kill themselves in later attempts.
3. Women are more likely to attempt suicide, but men are more likely to succeed (in America, 3 dead men for every woman). China is the only country in the world where the female suicide death rate exceeds the male rate.
3. Guns are not the most common method for attempting suicide. But in America they are the most common method of successful suicides. Drug overdose is the most common method, but is only successful 3% of the time. Gun suicides are successful 85% of the time.
4. Gun owning households have significantly higher suicide rates.
5. Gun suicides, in particular, tend to be "on impulse" rather than planned.
6. The TYPE of gun matters. Handguns are used in suicides much more often than either rifles or shotguns.
It is unlikely that people using guns to kill themselves would have done so successfully with a different method, since other methods require more planning and preparation, and have much higher failure rates.
If you choose to keep a gun in your home, you should choose a rifle or shotgun (I own one of each), not a handgun. Keep it locked.
Guns and suicide
Guns, suicide, and public policy
List of countries by suicide rate
Suicide is not a terrorist act, why are you trying to act like it is?
He went for a thrill ride before taking his own life in a dramatic fashion. I eagerly await the MSM telling us what station his car radio was tuned to, what websites he visited, and other such important information.
Ken
Forcing an ignition key system is not that hard either - car thieves do it all the time.
The phrase belt and suspenders comes to mind. Another is defense in depth.
You don't add a layer just for fun, but if the layer adds a significant amount of protection then maybe it is worth it.
(And weight on wheels is no better.)
Okay, weight on wheels, plus wheels not moving.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
There was that time I was feeling down and worthless and all I had was a WW2 Lee Enfield. Huge bloody thing. My arms aren't that long and my toes are too fat to fit in the trigger guard, so I started rigging up a contraption with bootlaces, meccano, a grandfather clock and all that.
I got halfway through and thought, "you know, if you have the ingenuity to do that maybe you aren't so dumb - you should give it another go."
I decided to go down the pub to celebrate but as I came in I tripped over the cord and shot myself in the arse.
Such is life.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Are you off your meds again?
Go find Melania, she has your pills.
Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
> No where in the constitution nor in any of the amendments is there a right to individual gun ownership specified.
BZZZT. Thanks for playing.
The right is explicit, implicit, AND intrinsic.
1. Explicit: What part of 2nd Amendment do you not know how to fucking read???
Furthermore,
2. Implicit: At the time of writing, (unloaded) gun ownership was NOT prohibited by the states; ergo, it is reserved to the people. What part of the and 10th Amendment do you not understand???
3. Intrinsic: Governments derive their power FROM the governed. Meaning the people had the right in the FIRST place. From the Declaration of Independence:
QED.
Learn to fucking read next time.
Christianity has worshiped Satan since Peter took over and corrupted Jesus's teachings.
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
If you choose to keep a gun in your home, you should choose a rifle or shotgun (I own one of each), not a handgun. Keep it locked.
I'm with you up to the "keep it locked" bit...keeping it locked up slows your access to it, and that delay could be critical or even fatal.
Rifles and pistols can be a real problem when used for home defense- they have waaaaaay too much penetrating power and even if you hit Mr Bad Guy with a perfect shot, there's a very good chance that the round will go right through him and end up in your nieghbor's house, and possibly inside your neighbor. Not a big deal out in the country but in the suburbs or a city....
A shotgun is probably the best choice in home defense weapons for most folks. They're simple, pointable, and are much less likely to take out a neighbor by accident.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Bill. There is no key.
-- I have a private email server in my basement.
I'm with you up to the "keep it locked" bit...keeping it locked up slows your access to it, and that delay could be critical or even fatal.
Statistically, your gun is WAY more likely to be used by a family member, either shooting another family member, or even more likely shooting themselves. You can make your own decision for your situation, but for most people, locking is better.
A shotgun is probably the best choice in home defense weapons for most folks.
Totally agree. If we had a lot more shotguns, and a lot fewer handguns, many lives could be saved. But keep in mind that shotgun shells have a shorter shelf life than rifle and pistol ammo, especially in high humidity. Replace your shells at least once a year.
It's no grand challenge -- don't let these swine tell you otherwise -- to build a functional interlock system for starting, flying, and landing airplanes.
"Hurr-durr it's gonna fall out of the skyyyyyyy!" just means they haven't thought long enough about the problem.
My question is: Do you think it would actually help? Surely, some echelon of non-pilot (such as perhaps this very maintenance guy from TFA) will be issued credentials that allow them to operate all systems of the aircraft otherwise maintenance would be impossible. And just as surely, such systems can be disabled.
My BMW, for 1995, has a reasonably-robust mechanical keying system and multiple anti-theft systems including RF keys to start and user-set numeric codes, pick-resistant ignition tumbler, and so on. But none of this stops a would-be thief from smashing a window, opening the hood, replacing the DME with one that lacks these electronic functions (available everywhere, because race cars are things). Bypassing the steering lock is as simple as drilling a hole in just the right spot in the magnesium housing for the steering column right behind the steering wheel (easy -- I got it on the first try in a dark parking lot with a pictures on a cell phone as a guide and drew zero attention) which lets the locking parts fall out.
The rest is just hotwiring it exactly like a car from the 1950s, and all of the right connections are there at the ignition switch to do that.
My car is old in car years, but it isn't all that old in airplane years.
Kid-proof tablet..
Whoever thought that "large planes don't need ignition keys because no one would ever attempt to steal one"
Nobody ever thought that.
How about: Personnel who are authorized to enter the secure maintenance area where the plane is being worked on, rarely try to steal the airplane.
Last time someone did this it was the co-pilot of MH-370, who killed everyone on the fully loaded plane, which has still never even been recovered and nobody knows where it crashed (well, they're pretty sure which OCEAN it's in....)
I loved that show!
The US National Guard has better fighter planes than most of the world's air forces. Why does a National Guard need F15s?
I don't know, maybe in case some suicidal asshole decides to hijack a plane and threaten to crash it?
Are they planning on taking on the US Air Force or is it somewhere that USAF planes go to retire?
A bit of both, at least in theory. The National Guard is a dual role service. The first role is as a state defense force, to combat threats "both foreign and domestic". One can assume this means having to go up against the federal forces if things break down that far. The second role the National Guard serves is that as a reserve force for the regular forces. The National Guard does get a lot of second hand gear, as do the federal reserve forces.
I had a medic in the Army tell me that you can tell how close you are to danger by the quality of the gear you've been issued. If you have a shiny new radio and rifle then expect to have to use them. You don't want the new gear if you just want to pay off your college loans in the military.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
Religion causes poor thinking, and removes critical thinking skills.
I'm an avid consumer of several podcasts. A couple of which are atheist and a few others are religious. Each one at one time talked of the utility of religion, specifically the Jewish and Christian tradition. They all said roughly the same thing, even if there is not a god there is utility in believing in a god for the sake of a productive society. Many intelligent people can through study, thought experiment, and other means, find what works for a peaceful and prosperous society. Some of the rules are pretty basic, like don't steal, don't murder, don't fuck your neighbor's wife. These rules for a prosperous society are basically the 7 out of 10 Commandments from the Torah/Bible.
These rules can be derived over time by people intelligent enough and with enough self control. But what do you do with people that lack this intelligence and self control? Such as a child? What of someone with sufficient intelligence to derive these rules but lacking the education to see what has failed in the past? Well, you create this imaginary friend that watches over them and can punish them for behaving badly and grant rewards for behaving well, and has created rules for everyone to follow. This imaginary friend can be Santa Claus, which rewards good behavior with gifts at the end of the year. This imaginary friend can be karma, where good deeds are rewarded with good luck. This imaginary friend can be a god, which rewards good deeds in the afterlife. So long as the rules make sense to even a child then intelligent adults can find the wisdom in following the rules as well.
Maybe religion does in fact remove critical thinking, but if religion is based on a foundation of rules that are good for creating a peaceful and prosperous society then this is not necessarily a bad thing. There are religions that cause poor thinking, such as a religion that calls for killing nonbelievers and then defining nonbelievers to include people of the same religion that failed to interpret the rules of their prophet EXACTLY as you did. That's just asking for the creation of centuries of civil war.
Good religion creates good people and a good society. Bad religion destroys people and society.
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
"Proper sanitation, being necessary to the preparation of healthy food, the right of the people to wash their hands, shall not be infringed."
I'd say that the use of commas in that sentence makes it gibberish, just like in the second amendment. I cannot parse that sentence in a way that is grammatically correct, which means that I have to guess what the author probably meant, based on what I know about him and his background.
Disclaimer: I'm not from the US, nor a native speaker of English.
Avantslash: low-bandwidth mobile slashdot.
On some aircraft the wheels begin to rotate before they touch the ground.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
"Proper sanitation, being necessary to the preparation of healthy food, the right of the people to wash their hands, shall not be infringed."
Yeah I'd hate for someone who isn't me to break into my home and commit suicide with my gun. FFS pal not everyone is suicidal.
I listened to the ATC audio and it was eerie. I just felt bad. You could tell this kid had just given up. No hope, he didn't even sound sad about it anymore, like he had come to terms with everything already. When the ATCs asked him about endangering other planes he apologized and pretty much took the plane out of altitude as instructed and away from the airport. You could tell the whole time he was just having a one way trip. Very sad.
Another Liberal off their "meds". Legalize more drugs, surely that will help! SMH
-==- Buy a Mac and leave me alone!
The Air National Guard receives airplanes that are passed down by the USAF. Since the USAF has been getting F-22's they have had F-15's to pass down. There is actually a concern right now that with the Air Force getting so many F-22's there will be a gap in available aircraft for the USAF to pass down for a number of years as the F-22's are expected to have a long service life.
-==- Buy a Mac and leave me alone!
5. Gun suicides, in particular, tend to be "on impulse" rather than planned.
I think #5 explains that. If they didn't have the gun they would be more likely to back out or at the very least, be far less successful.
The difference is that we have actual reality to work with on defensive firearm use. So I'm not sure what point you think you're making, since you're talking BS. Throwing up that sort of nonsense without addressing the CDC's research is a pretty good sign that you're just angry that I'm right.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I doubt "his" agenda has to do with suicide too. It is fear that drives those types of decisions. Once the "fear" is allayed, critical thinking stops because, hey, the problem that aroused fear is dealt with. No more thought necessary, everything is taken care of... but its not. That is why the "no guns, no violence" people piss me off so much. Not that anyone cares what I think.
Have a nice day. :)
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen