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Chromebooks May Get Apple Boot Camp-Like Windows 10 Dual Boot With 'Campfire' (xda-developers.com)
Google is reportedly working on a secret project to get Windows 10 running on Chromebooks. XDA Developers' Kieran Miyamoto reports on the latest developments surrounding "Campfire" -- the Chromebook equivalent of Apple's Boot Camp. From the report: Earlier this year, a mysterious project appeared on the Chromium Git. The Chrome OS developers had created a new firmware branch of the Google Pixelbook called eve-campfire and were working on a new "Alt OS mode" for this branch. We have since confirmed this Alt OS refers to Microsoft Windows 10 and found evidence that it wasn't just an internal project but intended for public release.
The developers have reworked the way in which they distribute updates to a rarely-used section of ROM on Chromebooks called RW_LEGACY. The RW_LEGACY section on a Chromebook's ROM traditionally gives users the ability to dual-boot into an alternative OS, but it is something of an afterthought during production and the section is rarely updated after a device leaves the factory. Now, with Campfire, Google will push signed updates to RW_LEGACY via the regular auto-update process, so firmware flashing won't be a concern for Joe Public. A recent commit for enabling Alt OS through crosh with a simple [alt_os enable] command indicates that it will be a fairly easy setup process from the user's end too. We may expect to see the first demo of "Campfire" at Google's upcoming Pixel 3 launch event in October. Also, the report notes that the Google Pixelbook won't be the only Chromebook with Campfire support, citing "mentions of multiple 'campfire variants.'"
The developers have reworked the way in which they distribute updates to a rarely-used section of ROM on Chromebooks called RW_LEGACY. The RW_LEGACY section on a Chromebook's ROM traditionally gives users the ability to dual-boot into an alternative OS, but it is something of an afterthought during production and the section is rarely updated after a device leaves the factory. Now, with Campfire, Google will push signed updates to RW_LEGACY via the regular auto-update process, so firmware flashing won't be a concern for Joe Public. A recent commit for enabling Alt OS through crosh with a simple [alt_os enable] command indicates that it will be a fairly easy setup process from the user's end too. We may expect to see the first demo of "Campfire" at Google's upcoming Pixel 3 launch event in October. Also, the report notes that the Google Pixelbook won't be the only Chromebook with Campfire support, citing "mentions of multiple 'campfire variants.'"
It's the new thing, run Windows under Linux. Linux GPU virtualization is even good enough now to run AAA games in a VM. For most of what you do... browsing, social networking, viewing media, the experience is better under Linux now than Windows (e.g., you will never get an upgrade nag while watching a movie.) Not to mention Microsoft won't be spying on most of what you do, except of course for what runs in the VM. You want that to be less every month.
Dual boot is out, sandboxing Windows is in.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
As if Chromebooks were not useless enough already, adding Windows 10 will make them 100000 times worse!!!
you do not see much effort in reverse.
Not true, actually. Microsoft now officially supports and invests a lot of money in running Linux both under the Windows desktop and in the cloud. I would go so far as to speculate that Microsoft now has more money invested in this than the sum total of all the work that went into Wine.
But the elephant under the rug is, it's actually better to do it the other way: run Windows in a vm, that way you can keep your critical work and data entirely out of the hands of Microsoft. Microsoft knows this and now has a whole bunch of money invested in various efforts to forestall it. To be honest, it's hard to see that as a bad thing, it's the nearest thing to honest competition I have ever seen from that gang.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Surely it is a good idea for the campfire to come into the windows. Expect people to bend over backwards to accommodate the effort to reverse, Mac. Despite the haters.
did google ever get the chrome-os to run android apps like they said they would? i considered buying a chromebook on sale recently but i want to know if i can run android apps on it, mostly sdrtouch and utilize the sdrplay device driver for my SDR receiver, i have an rtl-sdr but the sdrplay is a much better receiver that makes the rtl-sdr look like a cheap knockoff sdr
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Game Boy Pocket runs on two AAA batteries, and mGBA and SameBoy emulate it.
(In addition to the battery meaning, "AAA" means leading-edge, large-budget production values.)
Why do you even need a program like campfire to run Windows on a Chromebook?
Because Google needs somewhere to install their spyware.
I was hoping my fellow computer scientists would have learned that just because we have the ability to do something doesn't mean that we should do it. HA! I'm just kidding, fuck it, let's put internet in some more shit! ;)
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Hey, start your own right-wing tech site! Easy peasy! This is just Slashdot.
Meanwhile, The US is a bit of a mess, the Republicans own all branches of the Federal Gov't, and Microsoft is doing quite well.
So your whinging seems a tad disingenuous.
Here's a free clue - don't start a post with 'this post will certainly be censored'. It's just so weird and passive-aggressive, and makes any point you might have subsequently made seem a bit weak, or dodgy. Just say your piece without the off-putting preamble.
Your welcome.
Maybe you should ponder why your opinions are so unpopular.
It seems to be actually quite balanced in terms of left/right wing stuff. If it was an actual case of deep SJW infection, posts would be just deleted and users would be banned left and right until this was resetdotera.
Of course, if you do shit like being pro actual nazism (as in extermination of jews, white ethnostate, all the package, not "things the far left disagre with") , you will get moderated down.
Hah!
He was moderated right down to -1!
Perhaps he will learn to be a bit more subtle.
On at least one model of Chromebook you can load Libreboot and eliminate the risk of accidentally wiping out your Linux install. But it would be nice to be able to keep ChromeOS for those times when you want to interact with Google, and have a Linux install next to it which is completely free of them, and have it stay there like a good install should. I am not even slightly interested on running Windows 10 on the bare metal, like many other commenters in this discussion.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
How's that support for dual boot coming along?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
As much as they keep saying how much better than Apple they are, they still copy apple.
Gotta love it!
I just use vmplayer. I boot my Linux install from Windows, and I boot my Windows install from Linux. That way I have access to all of my applications regardless of which OS I'm running at the time. Well, almost all of them. I haven't got vmware graphics passthrough working at the same time I have the nVidia Linux binary driver installed. I haven't put any effort into that, though.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Yep.
People just don't seem to like extremes here.
Seem several far left people getting the -1 treatment as well.
Or maybe the extremes also tend to moderate more and like a MAD, they just self destruct and the moderate people are all that is left.
If you want to know what hell is like, run Windows 10 on a celeron N4xxx or N3xxx CPU. They do sell these, mostly HP 15-series laptops btw so I know firsthand. That's the chip of choice for almost all chromebooks then you add the pathetically underperforming 32GB flash storage device (SSD is far too generous of a title) and 4GB of RAM and it take about 4 minutes to fully load and open and render one page in any web browser.
When they first came out they came with Linux and they were an absolute revelation. Small fast and perfect for mobile computing for people who weren't tied down to the Windows ecosystem. Then Microsoft leveraged their ability to charge whatever they wanted for Windows licenses to "encourage" vendors to dump Linux and ship a handicapped version of Windows instead. Once that handicapped version of Windows became standard, Microsoft started dictating hardware specifications and as a result we were stuck with shitty atom processors, tiny amounts of ram, and tiny hard drives for many more years than necessary going with the pace of technology. NetBooks went from being a great mobile PC option into just a shitty small laptop that you bought for your kid to wreck.
I just use vmplayer.
I parted ways with Vmware when KVM (and others) started to get really good. Now, I much prefer KVM. I mean, really strongly prefer. Vmware had its day in the sun.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
How is that extinguish thing working out?
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
You do know VMPlayer is no longer free and is like $100. It and it's VMWare Workstation cousin is no longer being developed by Dell either. Sucks worse is VirtualBox is now owned by Oracle. Sigh
http://saveie6.com/
Will KVM work with Intel CPUs that lack VT-d? I bought the 4770 instead of the 4790 because it was cheaper. I regret that choice as it doesn't support I/O pass thru. As a result I am limited to Windows 10/Hyper-V or Virtualbox unless I want to pluck $$$$ for VMWare workstation
http://saveie6.com/
But the elephant under the rug is, it's actually better to do it the other way: run Windows in a vm, that way you can keep your critical work and data entirely out of the hands of Microsoft. Microsoft knows this and now has a whole bunch of money invested in various efforts to forestall it. To be honest, it's hard to see that as a bad thing, it's the nearest thing to honest competition I have ever seen from that gang.
And now Chromebook users can share in the Microsoft BOHICA update experience. Microsoft is drooling over the prospect os BSOD'ing a Chromebook.
And I've booted Linux on Chromebooks just about since they came out.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
This post will certainly be censored to -1 for telling the truth that moderation is a form of censorship. Moderation suppresses and reduces the visibility of speech, which means that, by definition, moderation is censorship. That truth is highly unpopular here, but it's necessary to speak truth to power. Posts that express unpopular views like supporting the United States, the Republican Party, Microsoft, or law enforcement are quickly censored to -1.
The result is that Slashdot is now becoming an echo chamber and the real nerds are being driven away. That is why Slashdot comments are at their lowest rate in well over a decade and continue to decline. Moderation is a form of censorship, and it is killing Slashdot. If Slashdot is to survive, moderation must be abolished.
Of course you are modded to -1. Your reply is off topic, and it is about as stupid as a reply can be, and it is simply 100 percent wrong. Here's the issue sparky. I was browsing at -1 because I was moderating earlier today.
So I saw your pointless whiney wrong and stupid post. Here's the other thing Sparky. I am under no obligation to read your verbal vomit. You want to force me to? That isn't freedom of speech, its having to listen to a 3 year old screaming about being pissed off that he can't kiss his elbow.
Now here's the yummy part. As soon as I finish this post. I'm pushing that little slider to obliterate your posts from my computer. So you can still post all the drivel you like, but your freedom of expression does not mean I'm forced to look kat it. Bye Bye, and if you post something worthwhile, it'll get modded up.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Here's a free clue - don't start a post with 'this post will certainly be censored'. It's just so weird and passive-aggressive, and makes any point you might have subsequently made seem a bit weak, or dodgy.
But AC waasn't wrong. It got the downmodding it deserved.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
They already have soylent news, how many sites do two dozen angry neckbeards need? Especially when #gamergate gave way to #metoo, I'd think they'd all want to huddle together somewhere, "they tuk er jerbs!"
Wow! Windows. How 90s retro, grandpa! The rest of the world moved on to real operating system decades ago. But you just keep telling yourself that you're relevant...
You do know VMPlayer is no longer free and is like $100.
I didn't pay and I'm still using it. WP says it's still free to use player.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I thought just started it’s big push for Chromebooks hoping for same success with consumers as education. Now it works on a duel boot of Windows? Given the hardware most Chromebooks run, Windows 10 won’t run well on a lot of them. Not going to buy a pixel Chromebook to run Windows on it.
Will KVM work with Intel CPUs that lack VT-d?
You are out there beyond my personal experience. My impression is that it wil but the performance hit is too much for high end gaming.
I bought the 4770 instead of the 4790 because it was cheaper. I regret that choice as it doesn't support I/O pass thru. As a result I am limited to Windows 10/Hyper-V or Virtualbox unless I want to pluck $$$$ for VMWare workstation
Sorry Intel screwed you. Instead of dropping bucks on VMWare, why not change out the 4770 for a Ryzen? A motherboard swap is kind of hard core the first time but its a great skill to learn, and alternatively any decent screwdriver shop can do it in minutes.
Informative thread here.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Chromebooks have been able to run Windows for a few years now, thanks to the chrultrabook crew. Google provided some assistance in the project, asking the developers to attend some of its internal conferences and lending them a Pixel 2 for a while (which turned out to have damaged audio hardware, making that a complete waste of time). Unfortunately, those same developers decided that newer Chromebooks are no longer worth supporting, due to undersized/underpowered non-replaceable components. (The good ones used to have M.2 slots. They don't anymore.) Thus, the project has pretty much closed shop.
If someone else is going to take up the reins, that's great. The Libreboot people declined to take it over, so I'm glad someone is interested.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
Would have been a more suitable name.
Most aren't aware, but Apple invented dual-booting, emulators and virtual machines. Apple released these features soon after Steve Jobs invented the computer mouse.
I second this having upgraded from a i7 4770 to a Ryzen 7 1700. Virtualbox doesn't work well on them, but everything else I've tried has been great.
MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
My expensive 32 gigs of ram would have to be thrown out for DDR 4 in addition of a new motherboard. The IPC is about the same so there is no need to upgrade just for that.
I will wait for another few years until things improve. Maybe Ryzen2 with DDR 5 before I bother with the expense
http://saveie6.com/
I parted ways with Vmware when KVM (and others) started to get really good. Now, I much prefer KVM. I mean, really strongly prefer. Vmware had its day in the sun.
It's been a couple of years, but last time I checked 3d performance and compatibility with vmplayer was vastly ahead of KVM. Since gaming is the only reason I run Windows, it's still relevant to me.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
> Will KVM work with Intel CPUs that lack VT-d?
"KVM" is often used to mean "qemu on top of KVM". Virt-manager actually calls qemu. Qemu internally uses KVM of it's available. Qemu runs fine without any CPU support for virtualization. I'd guesstimate maybe 10% slower than native if you use the right flags.
KVM itself uses VT-d, but that's not a big deal for light usage
There are a number of options you can use to optimize performance. For example, use -cpu host to set the right CPU type. If you don't, you could end up emulating a generic (old) x86, when you'd be a lot better off with -cpu core2duo or whatever is appropriate.
It's been reported that Chromebooks should run Android apps, though I've seen reports suggesting not all Android Play Store apps run. As suggested above, they should run. To ensure they run, Chromebooks should be able to run current and future versions of Android OS. Would they duel boot or just have a second processor (a Snapdragon) just for Android?
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
My expensive 32 gigs of ram would have to be thrown out for DDR 4 in addition of a new motherboard.
You could ebay it now while it's still worth something :) 32 GB of ddr4 can be had for $280 as of today. My crystal ball says there's a significant ddr4 price drop coming soon.
I don't disagree, waiting is a good option. I am eyeing a 16 core Zen 2 Threadripper build with 64 GB, hopefully it can be done for around $2000 some time in 1H/2019. Hardly a budget box, but great value and easy to justify by faster builds. But what to do with 64 lanes of PCI? Let's see, GPU is just 8, I'm not going to do dual or triple. Four lanes per M.2, then I'm up to 12 or 16, now what? A shame to let it go to waste.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
I loved the days when you didn't need special permission to run any OS you wanted.
Moderation - in other words changing scores doesn't impact on your free speech.
You have the freedom to say whatever you want, and you won't get arrested for it.
However, that doesn't stop the community from looking at what you are saying and thinking "this guy is a tool" and hiding your speech. Deleting a shitty thing you type isn't censorship, it's just the world saying "you can say whatever you want, but we don't like it, so cya"
Freedom of speech allows you to say anything you want, it doesn't mean it prevents people from saying "get the fuck out".. which by the way is ALSO freedom of speech.
So I've checked and the i7 4770 supports Vt-d, the i7 4770K doesn't, the i7 4790K does. You were stuck on the older policy of not enabling this Xeon-like feature on overclockable processors.
You can buy a Xeon E3-1230v3, E3-1231v3 or higher (check motherboard support page) and then the 4770K would be easy to resell because it's desirable and still current. (if never overclocked, mention it)
I expect Ryzen 2 will use DDR4 (it's pretty much confirmed, it'll stay on AM4 socket)
DDR4 should be cheap and fast then.
I had a strategy of holding out on DDR2 till DDR4 all for naught because prices shot up considerably.
Also, max DDR4 size might well double so Ryzen 2 would support 96GB and 128GB on four sticks up from the current 64GB max.
It's been a couple of years, but last time I checked 3d performance and compatibility with vmplayer was vastly ahead of KVM.
A couple of years ago was exactly when GPU passthrough was under heavy development. Now there are multiple reports of success and I just don't see horror stories. I have no doubt that VMware player was way ahead at the time, I have tremendous respect for their ability to make stuff work, but they also like to wrap it in layers of cruft that you can't avoid. That's a turnoff for me, compared to KVM, which is accessible at every level, including the one I prefer which is simply the command line. I'm perfectly capable of setting up my own disk images, thanks. VMDK is completely irrelevant to me.
Most folks use KVM via virt-manager or similar, I have no data on that. They seem happy, so I am happy for them. I'm happy for you too. :) The world is a better place with VMware in it. At the very least they keep the KVM devs on their toes.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Yeah Microsoft went bust because everyone's super cool like you.
I'd prefer hackintoshing a chromebook vs windows bullshit.
The words appear to be English. The sentences, on the other hand, are some dialect of gibberish.
To be fair, Soylent News was from the dark days of beta. Had Slashdot continued going down that route, an alternative would have been necessary, and forking is simply what you do in open source-land if you don't like the direction of the main project. I'm registered there and to be honest the articles are very similar in tone to here. I've not posted, but I have the site on an RSS feed anyway.
The one that really went to hell fast was the Reddit-alike Voat. Soylent News I read via RSS, but don't really feel the need for now Slashdot has got back on track.
what's the fucking point of a chromebook running windows? (we already have plenty of shitty hardware running that shitty software to choose from.) now if they made it easy to install a real linux without yelling at the user every boot to click that the system was insecure and needed to be factory reset to the original os; that would be a good thing :-)
You can install malware on just about anything.
That's the thing I can't figure out. Otherwise I'd do it.
Yeah Microsoft went bust because everyone's super cool like you.
I have not used Microsoft Windows other than on a mini-form-factor PC which I use as an Internet terminal like I am doing now. Over 99% of the time I use my notebook computer running Xubuntu Linux LTS and have been using some flavour of GNU/Linux full-time since January 2000.
If they want Windows 10 to perform well, then they need to beef up the hardware, which means increasing costs until they match the Windows laptops. Why then should anyone run a Chromebook?
For Chromebooks to be relevant, they need that price advantage. What this new development means to me is that Google doesn't think the OS can stand on its own and they need to make Windows an option to make a purchase appealing enough for the undecided. I don't know if that's the message they're trying to communicate, but it sure is the message they're sending.
I bought a Chromebook to ditch Winblows not dual boot it. If Google pushes this forward too far with Chromebooks, then I guess I'll pay more to switch to Apple to escape "Googlesoft" crap.
Now Windows should have an installer for Mac OS/Chrome OS called FireBoot.
Get it?
BootCamp
CampFire
FireBoot
Hooray for you. Not seeing the rest of the world following your amazingly cool example though.
Never follow, Be a leader.