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Apple Argued That Buildings at Its Headquarters Were Worth $200, Not $1B, To Reduce Its Tax Bill: Report (sfchronicle.com)

Apple argued that buildings it owned around Cupertino, where it is headquartered, were only worth $200 instead of the $1 billion tax assessors deemed in 2015, according to appeals reviewed by the San Francisco Chronicle. From a report: The report characterized the dispute as part of an aggressive strategy by Apple to lower its tax bills. According to the Chronicle, Apple has 489 open appeals in tax disputes over property assessed at $8.5 billion in Santa Clara County, Calif., dating back to 2004. Those appeals include the $1 billion building assessed by tax officials, as well as another $384 million property that Apple also claims is worth $200. Apple is now valued at $1 trillion. It is also the county's biggest taxpayer, paying $56 million in the 2017-2018 tax year.

22 of 536 comments (clear)

  1. tax frauds by fluffernutter · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I know a guy who got a dog and called it a company mascot and had his company pay for all the pet supplies. People will try anything, it doesn't make it right.

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    1. Re:tax frauds by Golddess · · Score: 5, Funny

      This is slashdot, so it's actually more like owning a Rolls Royce Sweptail and calling it a Ford Fiesta.

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    2. Re:tax frauds by farble1670 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I respect the fact you pay extra taxes; means less to pay for the rest of us.

      Everyone knows this is how it works too. There's a big pot and the government keeps collecting money until it fills up and after that no one has to pay anymore.

    3. Re:tax frauds by MachineShedFred · · Score: 4, Informative

      Off the top of my head, the City of Cupertino responds if there is a fire at Apple's $200 building and prevents it from being a complete loss by employing people to drive fire trucks that the City bought specifically for this purpose.

      But hey, they are only out $200 right?

      They also probably do other things like provide fresh water to that $200 building through convenient pipes, and take away sewage away through other convenient pipes. They have to maintain those pipes somehow, because pipes aren't magic objects that pop into existence where you need them, of the sizes needed.

      Oh, and they maintain these crazy strips of asphalt that allow the workers to get to Apple's $200 building, so that Apple actually has people to design products to sell and make that Scrooge McDuck sized pile of money. Again, roads are not made of magic materials that you can wish into existence for free - it's real material that costs money to produce, and money to put that material in place. And more money to install traffic signals that keep the thousands of workers from that $200 building from having to deal with even worse traffic than they already do. And should a couple of those workers run their cars into each other on the City-owned roads, there's some more City employees that show up in City-owned vehicles (or perhaps from a City-contracted service) to provide emergency medical assistance. I think that one is called an "ambulance".

      Please don't be daft.

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  2. They don't want to pay taxes by mark_reh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    and then they'll complain that the schools aren't producing the highly educated people they need to fill jobs, so they need more H1B visas. This same crap has been going on in Silicon Valley for decades.

    1. Re:They don't want to pay taxes by fluffernutter · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is also why public transit systems are crumbling.

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    2. Re:They don't want to pay taxes by Ranbot · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If anyone finds information on how Apple calculated that $200 valuation please share. I searched but found nothing. An AppleInsider article did say this though: "It is unclear if the $200 valuations are for hundreds of dollars or are in fact for $200 million." ( https://appleinsider.com/artic... )

    3. Re:They don't want to pay taxes by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 5, Funny

      No need for a valuation. I'll offer Apple 100 times their own valuation. If what they say is true, they should accept my offer.

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    4. Re:They don't want to pay taxes by stealth_finger · · Score: 5, Informative

      So the assessors who collect taxes are able to determine the value w/o any process to appeal if they are wrong? I don't think so. The truth is someplace between $200 and $1B, the question is where that is.

      Apple has their view, the tax collector theirs and what the poster was asking for was independent analysis of the building's true worth for the purposes of the property taxes.

      You can barely get a half decent shed for $200 yet you think that might be a reasonable valuation for a whole fucking campus while google says the median for just a house in san francisco is $1.6million.?

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    5. Re: They don't want to pay taxes by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, I'm suggesting the possibility of things like collusion exists. Kickbacks are more the sort of thing you get when dealing with an independent third party (a government official pays the private contractor a little bonus).

      Historically, there has been a lot of elections fraud; that doesn't mean every election is stolen, even if it looks like it might have been, but it sure as hell means you don't trust the board of elections, voting machine manufacturers, political parties, or anyone else to act in good faith. The same is true when a state wants to tax somebody on a property they value at a really high number and there is a dispute over whether it's actually a fair market assessment: show me why that's fair if you want me to believe it.

      It's not one-way, either. Do you know what my tax assessment is? $1,000 on land, $2,000 on my house. The city is artificially lowering cost-of-living in my area by dishonestly assessing our property. Because of certain state laws, I'm actually able to go back and force the city to not charge me property tax for another few decades if they try to raise this, too--which is good, because plenty of my neighbors are too poor to afford sudden water bill and property tax hikes, and they have a defense against that sort of thing if the city tries to run them out.

  3. $250 by CaffeinatedBacon · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'll take them off their hands for $250.

    1. Re:$250 by azadrozny · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It would be funny to have the local municipality come in and take the property though eminent domain using Apple's valuation. I am sure the county or state could use the extra office space.

    2. Re:$250 by stealth_finger · · Score: 4, Funny

      It would be funny to have the local municipality come in and take the property though eminent domain using Apple's valuation. I am sure the county or state could use the extra office space.

      They could be extra generous and give apple $400 so they can replace with two!

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    3. Re:$250 by Solandri · · Score: 5, Informative

      Eminent domain requires justly compensating Apple for the loss of their property: not paying Apple the Proposed Tax Assessment value or the Fair Market value, that's not necessarily sufficient for just compensation. Even if the market considers their property worth only $5, and they might, if for example the property has special value to Apple

      If both the buyer and seller agree on a valuation, that would be just compensation. Your example is based on the property having special value for Apple. Yet Apple themselves estimated its value as $200, which is their legal admission that it has very little value to them, special or not.

  4. Sounds good to me by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple is clearly making very poor use of the land this lowering it's value to catastrophic levels. I say San Francisco used Eminent domain to take the land and put it to good use (perhaps for public housing). The city will, of course, compensate Apple for the full, fair market value of $200. Heck, I say pay them twice that, an almost unheard of $400 dollars, to cover the expanse of obtaining a new headquarters. I mean, when you put it like that it's a win win

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  5. There's a simple solution to this crap... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Let people set their own valuations, but the valuation is also a public tender for sale at that price.

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    That is all.
  6. Lie on taxes by nitehawk214 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If an individual lies on taxes, they go to jail.

    If a corporation lies on taxes, they get rewarded.

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  7. Apple didn't exactly say it's HQ was worth $200 by UnknowingFool · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you read the article, Apple didn't say that its HQ was worth $200. From SF Chronicle article:

    Some claims reflect extreme differences in estimated values. In one appeal filed in 2015, Apple said that a cluster of properties in and around Apple Park

    in Cupertino that the assessor valued at $1 billion was worth just $200. In another, property that the assessor valued at $384 million was, in Appleâ(TM)s view, worth $200, according to an appeal application

    What are these properties? I don't know. I'd have to look at the appeal. It could be that the dispute is not over the HQ.

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  8. Re:Well, property taxes really are bullshit by Nidi62 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Tax on the poor? Sure, but the poor pay property taxes too. You think rental owners don't pass that onto their tenants? The renting poor pay a share of property taxes too and have to do so even in bad times. Switching that to sales and income taxes would at least let the poor to reduce that equivalent tax payment when things get really tough (as you can't tax non-existent income and they can stop spending on non-essentials)

    And you really think that, if property taxes are abolished, landlords will actually drop the prices correspondingly? And stop spending on non-essentials? The reason people argue that sale taxes are regressive is that the poor are already spending less of their money on non-essentials than wealthier people because most of their money already goes towards essentials. increase sales taxes and for a lot of people the situation doesn't become "oh, guess I have to hold onto my iphone for another year", it becomes "can I afford to eat dinner today".

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  9. How are they depreciating it? by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Commercial buildings are depreciated over 39 years. That is, the building's construction cost is a business expense, and thus tax deductible (you don't pay tax on the money you spent on expenses). But because it's a purchase that's used for so long, you're not allowed to deduct the whole thing in a single year. Instead, you take the building's construction cost, and divide it (depreciate it) over 39 years, and use that as your annual tax deduction.

    If Apple says the building is only worth $200, then their tax deduction for building depreciation over the next 39 years can only be a maximum of $5.13 per year. So either they pay the property tax on a $1 billion building (which at Prop 13's 1% cap and utilities of about 1% works out to about $20 million/yr in taxes), or they lose an annual tax deduction of ($1 billion) / (39 years) = $25.6 million (which at the 35% corporate tax rate would be $8.96 million/yr).

    I suspect what's going on is some accountant did this math and decided it would be cheaper to give up building depreciation in exchange for a lower tax assessment. But now their gig has been discovered and they're at risk of both losing the building depreciation tax deduction, while having it assessed at its full value for property taxes. If that's not what they're doing, and they're audaciously depreciating the building by $25.6 million on this year's taxes while simultaneously claiming it's only worth $200 for property tax assessment, then this is simple. They've legally admitted to the IRS that the building is worth $1 billion. Claiming to the assessor that it's only worth $200 constitutes fraud and possibly perjury.

  10. Re:Well, property taxes really are bullshit by jeff4747 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They are the single most "regressive" tax we have

    No, sales taxes are far more regressive.

    Property tax: poor person lives in cheap house, pays little in property taxes (directly or via rent). Rich person lives in expensive mansion, pays lots in property taxes.

    Sales tax: poor person buys a lawnmower, pays sales tax. Rich person hires a lawn service, directly pays $0 in sales tax. The sales tax for the service's much more expensive lawnmower is spread over all of their customers, resulting in less sales tax per customer.

    The poor and middle class tend to buy goods, which are subject to sales tax. The wealthy tend to buy services, which are not subject to sales taxes. Sales tax for the goods that are bought by those services is spread over more people, resulting in an overall lower sales tax rate.

  11. Re:Building Contents? by ewibble · · Score: 5, Funny

    The solution is obvious, the government pays apple $400 for the building and says look you are doubling your money. If anyone complains arrest them for tax fraud.