Slashdot Mirror
Google, Apple and 13 Other Companies That No Longer Require Employees To Have a College Degree (cnbc.com)
The economy continues to be a friendly place for job seekers today, and not just for the ultra-educated -- economists are predicting ever-improving prospects for workers without a degree as well. From a report: Recently, job-search site Glassdoor compiled a list of 15 top employers that have said they no longer require applicants to have a college degree. Companies like Google, Apple, IBM and EY are all in this group. In 2017, IBM's vice president of talent Joanna Daley told CNBC Make It that about 15 percent of her company's U.S. hires don't have a four-year degree. She said that instead of looking exclusively at candidates who went to college, IBM now looks at candidates who have hands-on experience via a coding boot camp or an industry-related vocational class.
Having a degree means your "ultra-educated"? How much more will we dumb down society through anti-intellectualism so that uneducated rubes can make themselves feel better for being dumb?
A sign the collage bubble will soon burst.
I've had a 20 year career without a degree. Most employers don't really care, and the ones that do aren't much worth working for. It's a bit of a red flag if you care about a check mark (in what could be a completely unrelated field) over actual experience.
but they both had "some college.." and Steve did get his B.S. in Electrical Engineering
so not exactly the same as high schoolers being let in the door
I can get a job as a stocker at Costco without a college degree?! Thanks for the info....but I've been working as a developer in High-Tech for the past 30 years...without a degree...
To be fair, a lot of the people who have had long careers got into tech early enough where a degree wasn't really necessary, and have now gained enough professional experience to make up for that lack of degree. But someone with no degree and no long work experience will have a much tougher time.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
In my experience, many people who have a degree in computer science are worse coders because they are taught that there is a specific way to do something rather then being able to creatively solve problems.
"Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
Well for a lot of businesses we need more Programmers and Less Developers and Architects.
Having too many skilled people in a room will just make a lot of arguments.
With new programmers fresh out of college with their shiny BS in CS degrees, eager to impress with their knowledge, only to have them spend hours arguing over every decision I make as an architect, because that isn't what they taught them in school.
I have taken the same classes, that covered the same topics just with older technologies. But with decades of experience I know when trying to make an OO model is worth it or not, and I know the type of changes the program will need without the detail what they are. So I need to you code it that way, so when these changes are in place we don't need to recode from start again.
For some jobs we need people to do what needs to be done just because there isn't enough man power for someone to do it themselves. And when working in a group people will need to do their jobs wither or not the final location is clear.
Education is great, I recommend it. However for a lot of jobs even ones that needs smart people, it is overkill and in general harmful at some levels.
Get a job as a programmer out of High School. If you want to get promoted take night classes and get a degree.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Apparently Trump's H1B limits are finally forcing Google et. al. to do the right thing and hire US workers.
I've found the exact opposite. People with degrees not only are faster at picking up new things, they have more exposure to different paradigms and can adapt more easily, their critical thinking skills are better...
And most importantly, they learn best practices that help them avoid pitfalls down the road.
Although I have to ask... what do you mean by 'creatively solve problems'? I've seen a lot of code that was 'creative'. Typically it's been the worst, most unmaintainable code I've had to deal with. WAY too may people think that once they've solved the immediate problem at hand, they're done. That's not how software works.
The Y2K event should have demonstrated very clearly that code you write will be around for MUCH longer than you think, and somebody has to maintain that code. I don't want creatively solved problems. I want boringly solved problems with obvious, self-describing code that can be easily updated later on.
And most importantly, they learn best practices that help them avoid pitfalls down the road.
You definitely don't learn this in college. That's the main thing I've had to teach new grad hires for most of my career.
Although I have to ask... what do you mean by 'creatively solve problems'? I
I've seen many people with no flexibility in problem solving. Just too few tools in their mental toolbox. They think there's One True Way to solve problems, and that all problems are really the problems they know how to solve. I haven't seen any correlation with college degree on that one though - it's mostly people who have not worked for software companies who have that problem. Not enough exposure to multiple coding styles, tools, and methodologies, since everyone in their shop (e.g., bank) was forced to rigid compliance with one approach.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
It will still be harder to move between jobs without a degree;
Not once you have a few years of experience. Once you've proven you're really a developer, by delivering real commercial software, few people care. College only matters when it's still the majority of your experience. I don't have any information about a degree on my resume (or anything more than 10 years back, really), and only Google has ever asked me about it in over twenty years and quite a few job changes.
It's really tough to get that first software development job without a degree, though.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
> creatively solve problems.
Do you want to read code that is logical or "creative?" I know my opinion on that.
My day job is cleaning up after 'educated' programmers.
Some individuals have the ability to design elegant solutions. Comp-Sci degree plans can be passed without those abilities, and the skills can be learned outside of a classroom.
The gist is that degrees have been used as an indicator of coder quality and it's a very poor tool for that.