Slashdot Mirror


Facebook Wants To Use Machine Learning To Make MRIs Faster

Facebook believes they can use machine learning to speed up magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) scans. Computer scientists from the social networking site are working with New York University's medical school on the project. CNNMoney reports: NYU is providing an anonymous dataset of 10,000 MRI exams, a trove that will include as many as three million images of knees, brains and livers. Researchers will use the data to train an algorithm, using a method called deep learning, to recognize the arrangement of bones, muscles, ligaments, and other things that make up the human body. Building this knowledge into the software that powers an MRI machine will allow the AI to create a portion of the image, saving time. Making the tests faster would allow radiologists to perform a wider variety of tests.

36 of 67 comments (clear)

  1. It will probably by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    It will probably misdiagnose the conservative ones...

  2. With RFID at the Mandalay Bay, it could be trivial by postbigbang · · Score: 1

    While the use of a "legacy system" is a bad thing, the NFC tags inside the badges could be easily read. One vendor offered a free RFID wallet for passersby, who yes, had their badges scanned.

    Unusually, the name tag didn't have embedded NFC, rather, an additional tag was used. Remove the tag, and no NFC read.

    But the UBM contractor who screwed up.... is a Black Spot on their event.

    --
    ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
  3. What could possibly go wrong? by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

    Am I the only one reading this as "It will speed up the imaging by using CGI to fake part of the image"?

    --
    I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
    1. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by TFlan91 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, this idea is dead on arrival.

      As a patient, if I discovered my doctor was using a "best guess" image, which let's face it, that is what this is, I would transfer hospitals instantly.

    2. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 5, Insightful

      In any case I really wish FB would stay the f*ck away from MRIs or anything medical, really.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by daenris · · Score: 1

      Yeah, that's pretty much how I read it too.

      What could possibly go wrong... https://www.theregister.co.uk/...

    4. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by OtisSnerd · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, this idea is dead on arrival.

      As a patient, if I discovered my doctor was using a "best guess" image, which let's face it, that is what this is, I would transfer hospitals instantly.

      Having had a brain MRI a couple of months ago to rule out a tumor causing the nerve problem with my right eye, I completely agree with you. The Ophthalmologist I went to first set it up, and the imaging people then reported no tumor or other problems found. My Ophthalmologist then sent me to see a Neuro-Ophthalmologist at Jefferson University Hospital, where they in turn did their own evaluation of the image, just to make absolutely sure that it had been read correctly the first time. While the eye problem (right eye outside muscle isn't working, there's a blood clot in the vein that feeds the nerve) is annoying with a turned inwards right eye, it's really nice to know that I don't have any tumors or other bad problems in my brain.

    5. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by ITRambo · · Score: 1

      If Facebook is involved, it already is a bad idea and anything could go wrong.

    6. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by mikael · · Score: 1

      Nvidia were using neural networks to help denoise the use of monte-carlo methods to implement global illumination methods in ray-tracing. Normally, the resulting image will look a bit grainy like classic film movies. But using the DNN, they get to keep texture detail while removing the noise.
      They've had similar successes with modelling CFD. Using DNN they were able to get vast speedups while improving accuracy over classic Navier-Stokes equations. That suggests there is some other mathematical model that should be used.

      But with a medical image, what might be considered "noise" pixels could be tiny fragments of metal or glass. Normal reconstruction is done using GPU's or muli-core CPU's.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    7. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by OtisSnerd · · Score: 1

      Something as small as that clot could easily fit within a section of the image this AI approach skips scanning and interpolates in a problem-free vein.

      Yeah, that thought occurred to me. The vein is tiny, and the clot even smaller. The N-O said that he spent quite a bit of time examining the area around my eye nerves, and the visual cortex in the brain. Another thing that occurred to me is overlooking a brain aneurysm. Had a co-worker fall dead out of his chair at work one day because of that. His father had died of the same thing, and were it in my family, I'd be pestering the doctors for yearly scans to make sure I wasn't developing one.

      My own father suffered micro strokes when he was in his 70s, and now I have a baseline scan they can use for comparison, to keep a watch for those.

      I've had problems with x-rays and scans having poorly imaged spots in the past due to dense tissue, including missing a 2cm kidney stone. I'd rather a specialist, or multiple in the eye problem, examine my scans, rather than some 'AI' claim it's all ok, or wallpaper over the dense spot with generic imaging.

    8. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by saccade.com · · Score: 1

      +1 If the portion of the image the AI is "allowed to create" happens to have key diagnostic information, you lose. The whole point of getting an MRI is to spot unusual data. Also, most people going to a hospital have some sort of problem, so the data the AI "creates" could easily show abnormalities that aren't really there. So FB is not only giving people fake news, now it's giving both false positive and false negative medical tests. They should hire Elizabeth Holmes to direct this program.

    9. Re:What could possibly go wrong? by yuriklastalov · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I want to know what their ulterior motives are in this enterprise. I don't buy it being solely for "opportunities to license AI software to hospitals" for a second.

  4. Re:With RFID at the Mandalay Bay, it could be triv by Desler · · Score: 1

    Wrong story?

  5. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM USING THE WORD VAGINA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Vagina, pussy, snatch, etc are overly gender specific. Please use the term "front hole".

    Sincerely,
    State of California

  6. This is a stupid idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    You want faster scans? Write normal software that is better or use faster hardware. AI is SHIT and should not be trusted. An MRI should show the ACTUAL SCAN DATA not some made-up crap by some shitty fake-ass excuse for AI.

  7. hipaa says no! by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    hipaa says no!

    1. Re:hipaa says no! by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 2

      hipaa says that the information can't identify you.

      Read through all those pages you signed before your MRI to see if 'anonymized data' could be used or sold to 3rd parties.

    2. Re:hipaa says no! by thesupraman · · Score: 1

      Really? You think that something that gives an EXACT profile of unchanging physical attributes (your skull for many) cannot be identifiable, and can in any possible way be anonymized?

      Interesting interpretation.

    3. Re:hipaa says no! by guruevi · · Score: 1

      HIPAA indeed says that, but the fact is that you can. There are a number of papers that demonstrate this, you can use an open source program like Horos or FSL to reconstruct your skull and due to the way algorithms work (offsets and distances between body parts) get matches in a Facebook algorithm.

      Modern 64-ch 3T MRI has even higher resolution than the papers used (which were 8 and 12 channel 1.5 and 3T). Some of the voxel sizes we get with custom sequences allow you to even (very faintly, but sufficient for algorithmic interpolation) distinguish skin layers

      The law simply hasn't caught up with what modern reconstruction and facial recognition algorithms can do.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  8. Make sure to read the fine print... by olsmeister · · Score: 5, Funny

    By using the Facebook MRI Scanning Technology, you agree that your MRI scan will be posted to your Timeline once the scan is complete. You also agree that Facebook may retain a copy of the scan for future use and we may share it with our business partners and affiliated companies for educational and marketing purposes. Or you can opt-out, and possibly die. Do you agree?

    1. Re:Make sure to read the fine print... by fibonacci8 · · Score: 2

      "Would you like to tag someone in this photo?" Facebook asks as it displays an MRI with an arrow pointing to something the AI identified. Next step, CAPTCHA codes asking you to click until all of the MRI scans showing malignant growths are gone.

      --
      Inheritance is the sincerest form of nepotism.
    2. Re:Make sure to read the fine print... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      By using the Facebook MRI Scanning Technology, you agree that your MRI scan will be posted to your Timeline once the scan is complete.

      Got cancer :(

      [37 people liked this]

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  9. Re:With RFID at the Mandalay Bay, it could be triv by postbigbang · · Score: 1

    Wrong story.

    --
    ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
  10. Core business by wirelessjb · · Score: 1

    I did RTFA and I understand their motivation, but is anyone else annoyed that a medical university has to go to a company like facebook to find a critical mass of machine learning experts to help advance medical technology? That's not facebook's core business. Bless them for planning to open source the results, but... I also can't help feeling like the only reason this article is on /. is because facebook is in the headline. Would it be news if NYU was using their own CS department for this project?

    1. Re:Core business by guruevi · · Score: 1

      CS departments and research IT are woefully underfunded. Partnering up with a big company is the new business model for funding research, whether it's nVidia, Microsoft or Facebook, they all are competing to get into modern research by giving away valuable resources (eg. cloud computing and physical hardware) to be able to get their hands on the datasets.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
  11. How are they going to monetize this? by DarkRookie · · Score: 2

    How is Facebook making money off of this
    They will not do ANYTHING out of the goodness of their (lack) of heart.

    --
    The millennial that doesn't like most of the stuff designed for millennials.
    1. Re:How are they going to monetize this? by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      It's probably a PR stunt. "Look at us, we're helping humanity out of the goodness of our hearts!". Right up there with a child-abusing parent buying the kid a toy or a treat afterwards.

  12. Re:With RFID at the Mandalay Bay, it could be triv by losfromla · · Score: 1

    moron :-)

    --
    Only I can judge you.
  13. Medical Images and AI are old teammates by ghoul · · Score: 2

    Anytime anyone wants to train an AI system its always medical images. I did this as my undergrad final year project almost 20 years back. Sure the algos are probably better now but there is something about Medical Images which makes it satisfying for young idealist students to use for their project. Once the algo is perfected it can also be used for Face detection in kegger pictures.
    Facebook has a big problem. The govt is asking them to police offensive images. They cannot hire enough humans to do it so they need AI.

    --
    **Life is too short to be serious**
  14. I've seen this movie ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... and it didn't turn out well.

    I worked for Mobil Oil.

    They made so much money, they had a cash store (ca. 1986) that was obscene and the shareholders wanted them to do something with it that would make more money.

    Mobil bought out an insurance company, went self-insured, and sold policies to any and all.

    They also went into the land-grabbing business and built Reston, Va. from the ground up.

    They bought Montgomery Ward, too.

    They folded shortly after I retired from there.

    --

    When companies step away from their core competencies, it's an indicator that the shit's fixin' to hit the fan.

    --

    Facebook is wandering all over the place. The recent scandals including scamming shareholders and advertisers with false info and not giving a single solitary shit about ethics while diversifying like this will be part of their demise.

    That's not going to happen any time soon, though.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  15. Isn't Facebook a Social Media Company? by Jarwulf · · Score: 1

    What do MRI algorithms have to do with social media?

  16. Re:With RFID at the Mandalay Bay, it could be triv by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Don't worry. We've all done it. It's all these damn browser tabs the kids have these days. Confusing as hell.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  17. FB and MRI scans? by Maritz · · Score: 1

    Stick to what you're good at, Zuck - being a creepy fucking cunt.

    --
    I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  18. Newfangled k-space sampling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Every MR protocol is an engineering protocol that balances resolution (voxel size), signal-to-noise, field of view, and scanning time. If you increase resolution, you generally have to decrease your field of view, decrease SNR, or increase your scanning time. It's easy to make a 6 second scan - in fact, we do it every time we scan with what's called a localizer - a wide FOV, low resolution image that the techs use to orient the diagnostic images to be acquired. The localizer is not diagnostic, but I've caught large tumors on these images that weren't included in the more limited FOV of the diagnostic images.

    Part of scanning time is "baked in" due to physical constraints - the protons take a certain amount of time to flip back after you've nudged them with an RF pulse. This time is reduced with higher-field magnets (at the cost of decreased SNR), but obviously AI can't alter physics. I imagine this "speed up" happens on the reconstruction side, where the sampled frequency domain data is converted to a spatial domain image. There are some protocols already that "undersample" k-space to speed up acquisition. In this case you're taking advantage of some of the natural "symmetry" of k-space imaging to interpolate "holes" in your sample data. Almost all clinical scans that can use this technique do, because time is money in the MR and because trade-offs in image quality using these methods are generally outweighed by those caused by patient movement, a phenomenon which tends to be more of a problem the longer people have been in the scanner.

    But can a software solution improve on this by an order of magnitude? I highly doubt it. Besides the physical constraints, there is ALWAYS a trade-off. These trade-offs are very well understood and finely tuned to the application on hand. I'm guessing some 20-something Facebook engineer saw a k-space image for the first time and figured he/she figured they were the first to notice the apparent symmetry and potential for interpolation.

  19. Not a new idea by grep_rocks · · Score: 1

    This idea isn't new - compressed sensing was pioneered in MRI a decade ago - sounds like these guys are amateurs...

  20. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion