No Healthy Level of Alcohol Consumption, Says Major Study (theguardian.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Guardian: Even the occasional drink is harmful to health, according to the largest and most detailed research carried out on the effects of alcohol, which suggests governments should think of advising people to abstain completely. The uncompromising message comes from the authors of the Global Burden of Diseases study, a rolling project based at the University of Washington, in Seattle, which produces the most comprehensive data on the causes of illness and death in the world. Alcohol, says their report published in the Lancet medical journal, led to 2.8 million deaths in 2016. It was the leading risk factor for premature mortality and disability in the 15 to 49 age group, accounting for 20% of deaths. The study was carried out by researchers at the Institute of Health Metrics and Evaluation (IHME), who investigated levels of alcohol consumption and health effects in 195 countries between 1990 to 2016. They used data from 694 studies to work out how common drinking was and from 592 studies including 28 million people worldwide to work out the health risks. According to the report, "27.1% of cancer deaths in women and 18.9% in men over 50 were linked to their drinking habits." The biggest causes of death linked to alcohol in younger people were tuberculosis (1.4% of deaths), road injuries (1.2%), and self-harm (1.1%).

"Worldwide we need to revisit alcohol control policies and health programs, and to consider recommendations for abstaining from alcohol," said the report's senior author, Professor Emmanuela Gakidou. "These include excise taxes on alcohol, controlling the physical availability of alcohol and the hours of sale, and controlling alcohol advertising. Any of these policy actions would contribute to reductions in population-level consumption, a vital step toward decreasing the health loss associated with alcohol use."

Comments

Well Fuck

[Anonymous Coward]

I mean... I'm here for a good time, not for a long time.

Re: Well Fuck

[Archfeld]

Smoking ANYTHING is bad news. Vaporizing or atomizing is better but certainly not good for anything but your 'head' and attitude. Just like grilling meat is not 'good' for you, but is damn tasty. Just do things in moderation, even moderation :)

Re: Well Fuck

[Maxo-Texas]

You do not need to vaporize or atomize pot to consume it. It's easy to cook with. Colorado has a major edibles market with well controlled dosing. The carbs are more of a problem than the various cannabinoids.

Re:Well Fuck

[Anonymous Coward]

You have to love the quote at the end of the Guardian article, though it really should have been put at the beginning:

But David Spiegelhalter, Winton professor for the public understanding of risk at the University of Cambridge, said the data showed only a very low level of harm in moderate drinkers and suggested UK guidelines were very low risk.

“Given the pleasure presumably associated with moderate drinking, claiming there is no ‘safe’ level does not seem an argument for abstention,” he said. “There is no safe level of driving, but government do not recommend that people avoid driving. Come to think of it, there is no safe level of living, but nobody would recommend abstention.”

Re:Well Fuck

[houghi]

Too many people are hung up about quantity of life, not quality of life.

I am fat (for somebody in Europe) that my doctor asked me if I was willing to change my life habits, meaning eating and drinking. I said no.
I do not want to get old. I know what getting old is. My great-aunt was 115. She was healthy. My parents lived to an above average age and also lived, not just existed.
If I die, I die. At least I had fun.

And what greater fun that having a few drinks in great company of friends? In the end, that is all that matters. And I know. My great aunt told me, as well as other old people. And if you look at the photo on Wikipedia that I took, she is taking some advocaat at the age of 113.

Oh and on the WIki page, the thing about wisdom she told about hering and orange juice was not completely true.
She said it because she did not want to say anything about alcohol, because kids would read the newspaper and take it out of context. When _I_ asked her why she became so old, the answer was "Luck. Somebody has to be the oldest and by pure luck, this time it is me."

And even as the oldest person, she choose quality of life over quantity.

Re:Well Fuck

[sad_]

maybe so, but your quality of life will suffer much earlier then somebody who lives healthy.
you won't be able to do some things anymore when you're 40, while the 'healthy' person probably still can.
will you have done all the items on your bucket list when you're 50 or 60?
i agree that there is a limit, i don't see the point in reaching 100 years of age, it will be miserable, so far nobody that age is still well enough to actually have a quality life. but i want to enjoy doing everything i love for as long as i can. (those things don't include consuming alcohol, for me)

Re: Well Fuck

[blind biker]

This is true - smoking pot can lead to emphysema. It's still less likely than inhaling smoke from wood or coal burning, but yeah, some potheads will smoke in such excess that they may suffer from emphysema at some point.

But that's why I exclusively consume edibles! All the benefits, including health benefits, of cannabis, and none of the downsides.

Edibles, gentlemen, it's the right thing to do.

Re:Well Fuck

[Mr D from 63]

You have to love the quote at the end of the Guardian article, though it really should have been put at the beginning:

But David Spiegelhalter, Winton professor for the public understanding of risk at the University of Cambridge, said the data showed only a very low level of harm in moderate drinkers and suggested UK guidelines were very low risk.

“Given the pleasure presumably associated with moderate drinking, claiming there is no ‘safe’ level does not seem an argument for abstention,” he said. “There is no safe level of driving, but government do not recommend that people avoid driving. Come to think of it, there is no safe level of living, but nobody would recommend abstention.”

Also, a meta-data study that once again doesn't indicate how it normalized all the input data, is somewhat useless for drawing conclusions.

People that drink more may also on average have less healthier habits. Even where individual studies have different methods to account for different correlations, meta studies rarely adequately account for these differences.

Re:Well Fuck

[Austerity Empowers]

Plus about 2/3's of the deaths in young people from alcohol stem from poor and avoidable choices that I do not think should be considered in their recommendations. You have a choice to drink and drive, or to hurt/kill yourself. Alcohol does not trigger some invisible demon to strike you down (such as tuberculosis, which is hidden in the text affecting primarily only poorly developed countries, probably not anyone reading this). So basically alcohol in young people being a relevant cause of death is bullshit, by any reasonable interpretation.

When you examine the over 50 result, there was no control over quantity, and there was a direct correlation between quantity consumed and risk of cancer. There was also no control for other factors (alcohol + acetominophen) for example, that might be responsible for the liver damage.

So basically this whole article appears to be constructed with the mindset of blaming anything where alcohol was involved on alcohol use, for the purpose of highlighting it as a problem. The obvious result is that any use causes death, no shit. So will getting out of bed in the morning and walking down the street for a cup of coffee. Getting in your car has a strong chance of resulting in death or injury. etc. The question is whether alcohol on its own is an issue, and that's not clear from any of this.

Re:Well Fuck

[Ol Olsoc]

maybe so, but your quality of life will suffer much earlier then somebody who lives healthy. you won't be able to do some things anymore when you're 40, while the 'healthy' person probably still can. will you have done all the items on your bucket list when you're 50 or 60?

Let me tell you about my mother in law. Non smoker, non drinker. Plenty of exercise.

This woman was the very archetype of the modern healthy adult livin the dream well into old age.

She caught dementia at 68, and it took her 10 years to die. The thing with dementia is that it doesn't just affect your mind. Her bones kind ot rotted, her bodily functions slowed down gradually, and she wasn't a happy demented person, but one of the ones who cry constantly.

I would take death right now to avoid that.

If you really want to live to an ancient age, by all means do. But I'll take quality over longevity every time. The only people that make out in the life extension game are the ones running nursing homes.

Re: Well Fuck

[careysub]

Smoking pot is not as safe as you think.

Depends on how "safe you think" it is doesn't it? Notice there are no numbers in the item, indications of prevalence, to allow one to assess the putative risks. Although the American Lung Association is a fine organization genuinely devoted to public health, and focused on one subject, minimizing the prevalence of lung injury, they are - by the same token - not interested in giving a balanced presentation of what is known about risks.

Here is the abstract from the current gold-standard study of this subject:

Regular smoking of marijuana by itself causes visible and microscopic injury to the large airways that is consistently associated with an increased likelihood of symptoms of chronic bronchitis that subside after cessation of use. On the other hand, habitual use of marijuana alone does not appear to lead to significant abnormalities in lung function when assessed either cross-sectionally or longitudinally, except for possible increases in lung volumes and modest increases in airway resistance of unclear clinical significance. Therefore, no clear link to chronic obstructive pulmonary disease has been established. Although marijuana smoke contains a number of carcinogens and cocarcinogens, findings from a limited number of well-designed epidemiological studies do not suggest an increased risk for the development of either lung or upper airway cancer from light or moderate use, although evidence is mixed concerning possible carcinogenic risks of heavy, long-term use. Although regular marijuana smoking leads to bronchial epithelial ciliary loss and impairs the microbicidal function of alveolar macrophages, evidence is inconclusive regarding possible associated risks for lower respiratory tract infection. Several case reports have implicated marijuana smoking as an etiologic factor in pneumothorax/pneumomediastinum and bullous lung disease, although evidence of a possible causal link from epidemiologic studies is lacking. In summary, the accumulated weight of evidence implies far lower risks for pulmonary complications of even regular heavy use of marijuana compared with the grave pulmonary consequences of tobacco.

This is a balanced assessment. Yes, you will see the same concerns mentioned by the ALA -- but not the counterbalancing factor (for example) that there are no significant abnormalities in lung function which is kind of an important fact here.

Of course vaping cannabis is very popular now, so actual smoking of the material is surely on a steep decline.

One factor that explains why the numerous studies that have been done have failed to find any increase in lung cancer with cannabis use (aside from the fact that cannabis smokers consume far less material than tobacco smokers) is that nicotine is a cancer promoter, while THC suppresses cancer! You won't ever find that mentioned on an ALA page.

Re:Well Fuck

[cayenne8]

My first thought was....

Without alcohol, how will ugly people ever get laid???

Re: Well Fuck

[Kulahan]

Have any studies been done comparing the effects of edibles vs. smoked cannabis to double-check and ensure there are no negative effects? I use edibles myself, but I realize upon reading your comment that I just assumed it was safer because I wasn't inhaling anything. I wonder if they're metabolized differently, resulting in different effects on the body.

Re:Well Fuck

[houghi]

1) I am older that 40
2) I am aware that I will not be able to do things later that I can do now. That is why I am doing them now.
3) Great aunt was 115 and it was awesome. She live alone till she wass 106 when she went to a home. She had a lot of people visiting and enjoyed elmsot each moment of her life because of her positive attitude towards it.
So perhaps it is you who should look at what 'quality of life' actually means.

I also have had discussions with my sister about the subject. She is a qualified paliative nurse. My mother said no to cancer treatment to get better and shorter quality of life.

Re: Well Fuck

[Green Mountain Bot]

What's weird about it is that, while the studies of cannabis smoke itself - like the one in your link - show that it should have serious negative health effects, studies on the health of users find no such effects. This suggests that either there is something in cannabis that counteracts such negative effects, or that the way or amount in which it is consumed is different enough to mitigate them.

Re: Well Fuck

[Green Mountain Bot]

This is true - smoking pot can lead to emphysema.

That's not what the research indicates.

Re:Well Fuck

[Ol Olsoc]

Living as a fat person is not a quality life...

Especially when one has not learned to ignore the sanctimonious assholes that try to shame them. But some folks simply need a target to hate. Smokers, Drinkers, Chocolate people, anyone not Scotch Irish, you know the drill. that fat person who is going to die? Did you know slender people live forever?

Live as long as you can - like my father said - "Who wants to be the healthiest person in the graveyard?"

All those mindless demented people shitting in depends and drooling into their neck napkins and having run out of clues at the nursing home, maybe getting beat up by the orderly who is pissed off that she or he is only getting minimum wage - hey, they are all nice and slim. Now thats a quality life, you would have to agree.

Re:Well Fuck

[Rick Schumann]

You can not be fat, weak, slow, and eventually diseased because of those, and at the same time not be forced to live a life of austerity and total abstention, either. I'm an amateur athlete, not posessing high bodyfat percentage, not weak, and not having problems like diabetes, heart disease, etc, and I still enjoy foods we'll call 'unnecessary for nutritional purposes', and the occasional drink or two, and like you I believe quality of life is more important overall than quantity of life, because too many people are willing to hang on to every last breath regardless of even having to live out their final days in a hospital bed hooked up to tubes and wires and having extreme procedures done to them to keep them alive for five more minutes. It's not worth it to go to extremes just to live to 90 instead of 85. We're only here once and when we're gone, we're gone, make the best of it while you're here, but you can be healthy and even athletic and still enjoy life.

Re: Well Fuck

[Archfeld]

An atomizer is not aromatic but is the equivalent of a vaporizer using THC oil instead of vegetative matter or hash. A vaporizer is for Hash, either waxy H2O or butane processed, or ground vegetative matter. Both methods produce large deeply satisfying clouds of THC laden goodness. I do still occasionally use my bong or smoke a joint in a social situation, but rarely.
I am from Nor-Cal and have been in a coop situation for 20 years now. As advanced as Colorado is becoming the Trinity in far Northern California is still the center of POT USA :)
The best way I know to get pot into edibles is through infused butter. You can have pot 'anything' that way :) .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re:Well Fuck

[fatwilbur]

Ugh, the one thing I hate is when researchers go on to translate their findings into suggested government policy changes. Doctors may be very smart people and know plenty about the human body, but they are terrible policy makers. Governments as well are all to quick to misinterpret their area of expertise and enact these silly regulations.

Alcohol may be bad for you and doctors will probably advise against any consumption, but freedom for adults to make their own choices is still the bigger policy concern.

Re: Well Fuck

[dddux]

Yes, it's rather hypocritical and a bit funny sometimes, that people can be so anal about their health, yet the air we breathe in the cities is so poisonous that whatever you do, you just cannot actually live healthily. I'd also like to notice one more thing... now that the media cannot demonise tobacco more than they have already, it seems like the alcohol is next in line. Alcohol is new tobacco. When they're done with demonising alcohol, they'll start demonising sex. And that's how you create a new puritan state. People are already living fucked up depressed lives, we don't need more restrictions or worries, we need less of both. Having said that, you don't take any of your toys, or your money to the grave with you. Live well, and die well. Happiness. Read some Epucurus.... d= ;)

Did they study...

[Anonymous Coward]

...how many ugly people got laid because of alcohol?

And how many babies got made because of alcohol?

I wonder if the number of lives created by alcohol's ability to facilitate sex is greater than the number of deaths it causes.

Re:Did they study...

[Snotnose]

...how many ugly people got laid because of alcohol?

According to my sample size of 1, about 12. Not counting myself.

And how many babies got made because of alcohol?

According to my sample size of 1, about 0. That I know of. And I'd know, else I'd have changed states sometime in the past 55 years.

Re:Did they study...

[rtb61]

Now, were they good babies that turned into good citizens or were they produced by the genes of the lazy incompetent losers, born with alchohol damage to boot and raised quite 'er' indifferently and went on to become very unproductive custodial existences after leaving a trail of victims. Just saying, alchohol probably not the best thing for effective family planning. Taking those actual lives into account, probably killed more people again on top as a result of the extremely poor breeding outcomes. I would think it would be sound to provide free intoxicating substances to the people, as long as birth control drugs where incorporated there in and make planning family more important than drunken fucking.

Re:Did they study...

[The Evil Atheist]

You shouldn't impose your lifestyle choice on others.

Are we merely plants?

[Anonymous Coward]

Plants grow better in hydroponic conditions with carefully calibrated nutrient solution and perfect amounts of light and carbon dioxide. They thrive, but their roots are weak.

We can min-max humans the same way, prioritizing lifespan above all else. Remove all risk and danger, anything harmful to the body. Clearly it's irrational to hurt yourself in any way, so why allow it?

I'm not saying there aren't issues with excessive alcohol consumption, but fearmongering and efforts to create government policy restricting it are naive and don't address the issue of why people drink in the first place.

Hence the Ban on Pot

[rtb61]

So you know exactly why the alchohol companies spent so much to keep pot banned. Also the amount of profit generated by the alchohol industries is greater than the cost of the damage caused by alchohol, privative the profit, socialise the loss.

Re:Hence the Ban on Pot

[smi.james.th]

Well, parts of the profit are socialised as well. No government will advise citizens not to drink at all because they all get a juicy "sin tax" on the sale of alcohol.

Re:Hence the Ban on Pot

[Oligonicella]

Link to some stats for your spurious claim please.

Re:Hence the Ban on Pot

[Kjella]

Well, parts of the profit are socialised as well. No government will advise citizens not to drink at all because they all get a juicy "sin tax" on the sale of alcohol.

Uh, prohibition? "Dry" counties? Many muslims countries outlaw alcohol too. For many the juicy sin taxes are a compromise because they don't want to go back to the speakeasies and Al Capone, but they'd kill it if they could. They'd always find something else to tax.

Re:And still

[Anonymous Coward]

You smoke, drink, AND JACK OFF WHILE DRIVING? Man, pgmrdlm you are one degenerate son of an ugly bitch!

Anyone else notice

[Anonymous Coward]

The rise of anti alcohol studies and the rise of both feminists and jihadists.

I am not saying they are the same. But they both hate alcohol and white men.

Sounds like a terrible study.

[Anonymous Coward]

The summary is this:

First, we consolidated 694 individual and population-level data sources to estimate alcohol consumption levels among current drinkers. Second, we developed a method to adjust population-level consumption for alcohol consumed by tourists. Third, we improved pre-existing methods that account for unrecorded population-level consumption. Fourth, we did a new systematic review and meta-analysis of alcohol use and 23 associated health outcomes, which we used to estimate new dose–response curves of relative risk. Fifth, using the new relative risk curves and a new analytical method, we estimated the exposure of alcohol consumption that minimises an individual's total attributable risk.

Which just sounds like a lot of malarkey.

So they combined a bunch of data sources together (likely of very different quality, measures, etc), massaged it together to "estimate population level consumption by tourists", the massaged it a bit more, made some more estimates here and there... and BOOM alcohol is resposible for x% of cancer!

This is the kind of stuff that gives science a bad name. Where's the control? There isn't any. This barely qualifies as science.

People aren't going to stop drinking. We tried that already, and it didn't work out so well. It just feels too damn good to have a drink now and a again after the day is over. It's worth it! Frankly even if have a 10% increase in cancer from 1 drink a day, I'll take it. Do I really care if I have a 11% chance of cancer with an occasional drink vs an 10% chance of cancer with zero?

Realistically it just can't be THAT bad for you since we'd see large effects between drinkers and non-drinkers. Smoking, for instance increases your chance of lung cancer (over your lifetime) by a factor of 17. That is, smokers have about a 17% lifetime chance of getting lung cancer, and non-smokers have a 1% chance. That's HUGE, and the kind of thing we should be concerned about. But alcohol? Nonsense, the effect just can't be very big, or else we'd see it more obviously in the existing data.

If they really wanted to study this, take some similar populations. Study Mormons vs Ex-Mormons, or practicing vs non-practicing Muslims. But don't take data from 694 different studies and then do some weird data manipulation on it. Quite honestly, how do they know if they're right, or they just managed to tweak the data in the right way?

Re:And still

[asackett]

That's not cannabis killing you, that's irresponsibility.

Denmark vs. Pakistan

[Venona2018]

Countries with the highest rates of drinking: Denmark and Norway
Countries with the lowest rates of drinking: Pakistan and Bangladesh.

I'm betting people are happier in Denmark and Norway vs. Pakistan and Bangladesh. They certainly are wealthier, healthier, and live longer.

Maybe drinking is good?

Re:Denmark vs. Pakistan

[LynnwoodRooster]

Denmark and Norway are also ~90% caucasian, and both countries have a strong Christian/Western Europe-based culture. Does that have anything to do with the wealth, health, and lifespan?

Re:Denmark vs. Pakistan

[Opportunist]

Nope. It's definitely alcohol. Alcohol kills germs and is generally a preservative. Thus people last longer before perishing.

Ain't science great?

Re:Want to bet the researchers couldn't get a date

[UnknownSoldier]

> It sure as fuck isn't because it tastes good.

You DO realize that there is good tasting alcohol, right?

Why would drink the stuff that tastes like crap??

Lot more than zero

[Roger W Moore]

the number of Marijuana deaths is zero.

Was this study done by the same researchers that did this one because it sounds about as accurate? For a start the alcohol numbers above include drink-driving deaths and this also applies to marijuana and the rate is increasing.

Re:Wow pgmrdlm is an angry drunk.

[pgmrdlm]

Nope. X smoker, do not hate smokers. Drink, don't care if others drink. This study is biased that ignore a number of factors. You are the angry one pussy

Left out the key statement

[larryjoe]

The slashdot title stated the most sensational part of the study, but the summary left out the single-most important statement in the entire study:

"The level of alcohol consumption that minimised harm across health outcomes was zero (95% UI 00–08) standard drinks per week."

This statement is at odds with some studies and the hopes of many recreational drinkers. However, there have been other meta-studies that have found that studies that find a health benefit from moderate drinking often aggregate teetotalers due to religion/philosophy with teetotalers due to illness.

Re:Left out the key statement

[shabble]

often aggregate teetotalers due to religion/philosophy with teetotalers due to illness

Leading to the 'sick quitter' hypothesis. And has been factored into more recent studies, and found to be not the issue it's presented to be...

https://health.spectator.co.uk...

Then, a few months before his death in 2005, he published a study based on 23 years of data which replicated the results of his previous studies while disproving the sick quitter hypothesis by comparing lifelong non-drinkers with moderate drinkers. The latter had lower rates of heart disease and lower risk of premature mortality.

[...]

The sick quitter hypothesis was repeatedly tested and found wanting. The protective effect on the heart was repeatedly shown to be real and not the result of unhealthy former drinks in the non-drinking group.

Re:Left out the key statement

[Cyberax]

I'm a teetotaler. I don't see myself excluded from social life, except for drunken parties that I don't care about. Perhaps you mistake your alcoholism for "social life"?

Re: And still

[Anonymous Coward]

So cannabis smoke is, then, a carcinogen. Got it, thanks.

Hmmmm.....

[Anonymous Coward]

Nope. It's the beer.

Poor abstraction of results

[guruevi]

Off course, consuming alcohol has poor effects on people that are depressed or go driving after drinking. Same with potheads and opioid addicts that go driving or using heavy machinery.

This is a meta-study too and they are expressly comparing Muslim countries with decidedly non-Muslim countries. I'm sure the statistics for those are very honest at less than 2% of the population drinking. I've worked with immigrant Muslims they all drink homemade hooch, statistics in Iran shows at least 10% of the population drinking.

Re:This is stupid.

[whoever57]

It's use isn't even limited to humans.

Fruit will sometimes occasionally ferment, due to random yeast spores and animals will eat the fruit and with it the alcohol.

Ever seen a bunch of drunk animals in your back yard? I have.

Re: And still

[c6gunner]

Absolutely. I used the same defense at my drunk driving trial. "Just because I was drunk doesn't mean alcohol had anything to do with me rear-ending a cop car!"

Judge didn't buy it. Fucking asshole.

Re:And still

[markdavis]

>"the number of Marijuana deaths is zero."

That is just nonsense (and, actually, irresponsible). For one, ANYTHING you are doing that requires your peak senses and/or rationality will be negatively impacted by using Marijuana. For things like driving, surgery, operating dangerous power tools, whatever, it is not a good idea to be "altered". And claiming that throughout all history, being high on pot has not directly caused or contributed to death, is just *ridiculous*.

And if the choice of consumption of Marijuana involves SMOKING it (instead of eating it, ingesting a pill, or vaporizing it, or whatnot), well, let's just say that breathing in any type of smoke into the lungs is very unhealthy, no matter what type it is.

Now, if you were to say something more reasonable like "Marijuana is the safest illicit drug" most would readily agree with you. If you were to say it was safer than alcohol, again, most people would probably agree.

Re:And still

[Anonymous Coward]

literally no one in the world except you knows it has racist origins. even less people care. and even less intentionally use it in any part as some kind of racial slur. this kind of overly p.c. shit is why we have trump; knock it the fuck off. you're not helping anyone.

Re: And still

[PopeRatzo]

Methinks you have a bit of an anger management issue.

Only when he's been drinking.

Re:And still

[PopeRatzo]

Wait, slashdot has a private messaging system?

Yes, but only for those who pay for Slashdot Premium, and only on the mobile app.

I can give you a promotional code for a 60-day trial if you send me your info.

Oh no the sky is falling EVERYBODY PANIC!!!11!!!

[Rick Schumann]

Yet another 'study' claiming something is going to kill you. Never mind that people have been drinking ethanol in moderation for about a million years.
WTF is this shit? Is Puritanism making a comeback? Is this more Dominionist bullshit? Or are they selling something?

Guess what: everything is going to kill you. Just scroll through the internet, you'll find somebody presenting all sorts of evidence that anything you care to name that you eat, drink, or breathe, is going to take DECADES off your life. Don't fall for it, folks.

Re:And still

[PopeRatzo]

Pot smokers account for lots of driving deaths....

We'd account for even more driving deaths if we could only find our car keys.

Prohibition

[peppepz]

We know prohibition works so well to fix people's addictions... let's do it again for alcohol, too.

Whew! I'm safe!

[93 Escort Wagon]

The study covered the 15-49 age group, and I'm over 50. Where's that bottle of whisky?

Re:And still

[Mal-2]

I have a 4chan Gold account to offer back in trade.

This is only half of the story

[hyades1]

"Alcohol, says their report published in the Lancet medical journal, led to 2.8 million deaths in 2016."

These idiots clearly failed to grasp the other half of the equation. Alcohol probably prevented just as many deaths. Let's face it, if you couldn't decompress with a couple of beers after work, sooner or later you'd wind up skinning your boss with a letter opener and skull-fucking the company president and his snotty secretary to death with the rolled up hide.

Re:This is only half of the story

[thegarbz]

Let's face it, if you couldn't decompress with a couple of beers after work

Wow. Alcoholic much? Why do you need beers to decompress? There are far more effective methods. Go to the gym, take up combat sport, turn on the lobotomization box and set to binge.

Seriously, if your brain is actually dependent on alcohol to tolerate others then get some professional help quickly!

What is the politically correct way to die?

[petes_PoV]

Many people used to die from malaria, tuberculosis, pneumonia. Then we got drugs that prevented those. So they started to die from smoking-related diseases instead. So we all stopped smoking. Now people die from cancers: some caused by excessive drinking.

If that ceases to be a major cause of death, what is next? Obesity? We get told off for that, too.

So what will people die from in the future? Too much exercising? terminal anxiety? boredom?

How should we go about preventing those deaths and then, ultimately, at what point will all these studies, research groups and advice-givers give up and admit that everybody is going to die from something. What causes of death will be deemed "natural"?

Re:What is the politically correct way to die?

[thegarbz]

Many people used to die from malaria

To be fair, there's no healthy level for drinking malaria either.

Re:Highest ristk

[David_Hart]

Alcohol isn't as dangerous on its own. They included the results of risky behavior and impaired operation of machines. That is like saying getting a blowjob is dangerous, because they included accidents caused while getting a blowjob while driving.

While I am sure that certain activities while impaired are more dangerous (driving), I would suggest that being stupid is dangerous, and alcohol makes one dumber than before. They don't call it "Beer goggles" for no reason.

A lot of well researched studies have indications that some alcohol is actually good for you (i.e. a glass of wine with dinner) which seems to directly contradict the final conclusions of this study. There is clear evidence that over-drinking results in higher health risks, both personally (liver disease, etc.) and for others (driving drunk). However, they also seem to have included any other bad correlations, no matter how weak, from other studies (i.e. cancer). It's like saying that living can cause cancer so we should abstain. Maybe that's a bit overboard, but the study strikes me as being a tad broad in it's conclusions which leads me to question their methods and where the money came from?

Personally, I don't drink much outside of the occasional glass of wine with dinner or a drink when out with friends.

Re:And still

[Opportunist]

And don't even think about the amount of deaths that could happen if you could be motivated to search for the keys, go to the door, open the door, go outside, go to your car, get into your car ...

Screw this, pass the blunt.

Re:This is stupid.

[Solandri]

The spread of the tech to make alcohol in various forms predates christianity, and roughly follows the spread of civilization.

Alcohol correlates with the spread of civilization because water in skins, pots, or barrels goes bad after a few days. But people figured out that adding alcohol to the water kept it good for months (we now know that it's because alcohol inhibits the growth of bacteria).

Long-term water storage thanks to alcohol is what enabled long-distance travel and exploration. Without it, you needed to find a potable water source or there had to be rain every 3 days, or you'd die. Which strongly discourages people from moving beyond familiar territory. Civilized people may have enjoyed getting drunk, but that wasn't why alcohol helped civilization to spread..

Study Doesn't Make Sense

[Captain Kirk]

The same logic means that there is no safe level of cycling If we stop drinking becasue there is no safe level of alcohol, will we also stop cycling, swimming and all the other activities that have some risk of of injury but are nonetheless fun?

So, I take it...

[Opportunist]

Drink as much as you want, it doesn't matter.

Problems.

[jd]

First, the study is incapable of distinguishing drinking from other risky behaviour drinkers may indulge in. It assumes behaviours are independent, when in fact they are not.

Second, of the five Blue Zones, four involve drinking. The French Paradox also does. France's contribution to the debate shows that the change in drink of choice altered outcomes, showing isolating the variable of alcohol may not be sensible to begin with.

Re:No this is not nonsense

[CrimsonAvenger]

When people speaks of marijuana death they usually do not speak about secondary death (accident, inattention) because that criteria tells nothing about the LD50 of drugs.

And yet, this article about alcohol does, in fact, include "secondary death (accident, inattention)" as part and parcel of the alcohol deaths....

Abstinence-only education

[TeknoHog]

Worked really well for teenage mothers. I'll drink to that!

Re:And still

[Oligonicella]

Also, please call it cannabis instead of "marijuana," which has racist origins.

Oh fuck off with this tripe.

That's part of the problem.

[Qbertino]

That many people don't know how to have a good time without alcohol is part of the problem.

Re:That's part of the problem.

[x0]

My dad made homemade wine for decades. Never over-consumed. Profited no one. His consumption was as close to balanced as it gets. But the thing is, his wine tasted awful...because alcohol tastes awful. In every single form. Not to see this is to lie to yourself.

No, it tastes awful to you...

I enjoy many types of alcoholic beverages just fine, as do the vast majority or people. If it were truly that bad, and people had to lie to themselves to 'enjoy' it, alcohol consumption would be a fringe affectation.

Stop projecting your experiences on others; It's annoying and smacks of virtue signaling.

m

Re:And still

[denzacar]

https://www.etymonline.com/wor...

assassin (n.)

1530s (in Anglo-Latin from mid-13c.), via French and Italian, from Arabic hashishiyyin "hashish-users," plural of hashishiyy, from the source of hashish (q.v.).

A fanatical Ismaili Muslim sect of the mountains of Lebanon in the time of the Crusades, under leadership of the "Old Man of the Mountains" (translates Arabic shaik-al-jibal, name applied to Hasan ibu-al-Sabbah), they had a reputation for murdering opposing leaders after intoxicating themselves by eating hashish. The plural suffix -in was mistaken in Europe for part of the word (compare Bedouin). Middle English had the word as hassais (mid-14c.), from Old French hassasis, assasis, which is from the Arabic word.

You are confusing etymology with historical accuracy.

Don't worry

[binkless]

This study's tendentious conclusions aren't the only ones you could come to

https://cei.org/blog/science-reporters-get-it-wrong-moderate-alcohol-consumption-isnt-dangerous

You can count on the socialist puritans at the guardian to spoil any party

Re:And still

[Ol Olsoc]

Also, please call it cannabis instead of "marijuana," which has racist origins.

Oh fuck off with this tripe.

Now now, the kooks have to make their virtue signaling where they can ya know.

Calling Marijuana marijuana racism is almost as much fun to listen to as the cultural appropriation assholes - Guessing from your post you are British, no doubt you know about overly white chef Jamie Oliver's apparent cultural appropriation crime with his "Punchy Jerk Rice" https://www.telegraph.co.uk/fo...

Quickly citizens, get rid of all of the spices in your cupboards, the cultural appropriation police are coming!

Re:And still

[Ol Olsoc]

That bullshit made me more irate than anything out of the SJW crowd. I first heard about it when I watched Neil Degrasse Tyson's conversation with Katy Perry and she commented that she didn't know that cultural appropriation was a thing. She was very sad about it. Unfortunately Dr. Tyson didn't know enough to tell her it's NOT.

To me it is beyond belief that people would think that, but make no mistake - it is truly mental illness. Most people find it charming that other people are interested in their culture. to wit:

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/...

A mother threw a party for her little girl, and the little girl dressed as a Geisha. Mom posted a picture of it. A cultural appropriation kook took her to task for her "racism". Finally a Japanese citizen verbally curb stomped "ginzers" for being the real racist, explaining that Japanese actually like other people showing an interest in their culture, and that the Japanese regularly adopt aspects of other cultures as a matter of course.

Human culture is derived from human culture, and nobody fucking owns it.

Exactly. And culture is a living sort of thing. If I want to make and eat pirogues, I can do it without offending the ginzers of the world because I have that in my so called heritage. But I don't have a bit of moor in me, so in ginzer's world I guess I can't enjoy it. I wonder how ginzers feels about Tex-Mex food? I can dress like a traditiaonal Ukranian, but not wear a serape? so many rules in the brave new world.

My theory is the cultural appropriation police have arisen in response to a decline in organized religion. The busybodies who always want to tell everyone else what to do are still with us. They used to be part of some god-bothering cult. Now they're part of a people-bothering cult. Same shit, different day.

That's a pretty good hypothesis. Those Cultural Appropriation police can kiss my fuzzy yellow butt.