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IRC Turns 30 (www.oulu.fi)
IRC (Internet Relay Chat) was born at the Department of Information Processing Science of the University of Oulu 30 years ago. Taking some time out of his summer job, Jarkko Oikarinen developed the internet chat system. For the last several years, Oikarinen has been working at Google, overseeing the development of several communication services. Though several mainstream services have ended support for IRC over the years, the system is still in existence and used by many.
Netcraft hasn't confirmed it yet, but EFnet is still dying.
...here's a highly technical description of the software:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2rGTXHvPCQ
Isn't Slack based on IRC? Slack is the Latest Cool Thing you know.
do not a good sushi make
mode +b
The latest re-incarnation is Slack. Before that was HipChat, etc.
Note: If you can't stand the amount of spam images in a channel and want to minimize the stupid GIF animations you can use the Slack command: /collapse
It is almost comical how every modern utility has been re-invented multiple times.
It probably depends on how you define "based on". In any case, Slack isn't compatible with IRC at present, as the summary links to a story about Slack having shut down access to its service through IRC protocol.
IRC for "instant" communications among individuals and groups, and Usenet for public forums is why there is no need for Facebook, Twitter and other centrally-controlled systems so prone to censorship and similar abuses both by the commercial interests controlling them, and the governments able to twist the former's arms.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
For some use cases, tne big advantage of Skype, Slack, HipChat, Discord, and other web-based functional clones of IRC over IRC itself is that they store chat history on the server side. This lets a user see messages that were sent to a channel while the user was offline. It's as if an IRC server had built-in functionality equivalent to that of a bouncer, except that each user doesn't have to lease a VPS on which to run ZNC. The major IRC networks couid offer a built-in bouncer to compete with proprietary web-based chat, but they don't.
Another is that web-based chat allows uploading attachments. IRC has traditionally used pastebins and filedrops for this. The major IRC networks couid operate pastebin and filedrop services for their users to use, but they don't.
Back then my only way to access the Internet was via packet radio. 1200bps half-duplex.
Slow as hell but watching those packets back then in DOS NOS was how I learned how networking, protocols, and the Internet works.
... and surely there's no better way to celebrate than browsing QDB: the best of IRC. One of the funniest things I've ever read on the internet. Captures the unique blend of genius and idiocy on IRC
http://www.bash.org/?top
'This writing business. Pencils and what-not. Over-rated if you ask me. Silly stuff. Nothing in it' - Eeyore
No thanks, I'd rather pay Slack in perpetuity. /s
I think slack and hipchat are old now, discord is the IRC of the month
IRC did a lot of things right, that more "modern" IMs do totally wrong. IRC is decentralized, and anyone can run a server. It's lightweight, and easy to use. It is an open protocol. It lets you use any client you want, not just some single Facebook-blessed one. It wasn't made to monetize your communication.
However the core protocol needs end to end encryption. Not encryption where a multinational manages your private key "for" you, but true, E2E encryption. Not as some weird add-on that most people will never use, but by default. This is to keep Zuckbook style snooping away. It needs better protection against malicious actions. It needs some more modern features like presence.
At the core, it is what the internet should be: decentralized and put power in the hands of users, not advertisers and data scrapers.
Without IRC, how would have I gotten all those warez...er...I mean chat with friends?
/me slaps Whipslash with a wet trout
#DeleteChrome
Haha granpa go shit in diapers haha
There's nothing superior about it. Case closed.
I just don't get it.
Unfortunately if you work on outgoing business you end up using a lot of different communication utilities. It isn't just Slack, but over the past several years I got involved with companies and standards-setting bodies that use it. So if you want to be plugged into the real-time communications of that company or group, you have to use it.
But that isn't really different from other software -- on this Mac I am typing with I also have to have Skype, GoTo Meeting, WebEx, Zoom, and a few others I forget the names of until someone calls a meeting. If you ask any engineer on the call why they use it they just shrug and say "that's what our company uses."
To make matters worse many of the "your business in the cloud" type operations like Zoho try to get in the action as well. I think the Zimbra mail server (VMWare) also offers "collaboration" features that host chatrooms and IP calls. The only time I pushed back on using something is there was one from Asia that had a bad reputation for installing malware. I forget the name. I got the client to switch to WebEx for that call but who knows what the condition of their own systems are at this point.
So to answer your question: there really isn't any big technical merit between them. Yeah some work better than others. Skype really fsked themselves up but since it is Microsoft you will still have to use it. What counts is marketing and market share. No real mystery.
IRC's best feature was the automatic translation of passwords to a bunch of asterisks.
Met my wife on DALnet's #England channel 20 years ago when I was in the UK and she was in the USA, we now live in the USA with our kids, that channel resulted in a lot of people we personally know getting married, so who needs Facebook and Tinder.
However the core protocol needs end to end encryption. Not encryption where a multinational manages your private key "for" you, but true, E2E encryption.
Some chat services support end-to-end (E2E) encryption for one-to-one chat but not group chat. The point of the latter is to broadcast a message to all other users of a channel. How would end-to-ends (plural) encryption work?
It needs some more modern features like presence.
IRC protocol already has presence support, which many clients expose as the /away command. Though this doesn't include "offline" status at the protocol level, an IRC server could in theory implement "offline" as a subset of away status by providing a bouncer for all users of the server to use.
I work with a small handful of open source project teams and Freenode is still the hub that most F/OSS developers use to communicate with each other. I head a project called "Cool Mic" (#coolmic, a livestreaming audio client for Icecast) and I've worked with the two primary developers for years. I've never met them IRL (they live in Germany, I live in California). I consider them good friends, along with the people in #icecast. My local LUG has a pretty active IRC channel as well.
I've seen countless bugs get squashed, users get instant support, and friends be made on IRC over the past 20 years and, at least with Freenode, it shows no signs of slowing down. If anything it's getting more popular. It speaks to the distributed nature of the Internet and how distribution (separate, independent channels for instance) truly serves to strengthen the network as a whole. Huge monolithic services like Facebook and Twitter only take away from what makes the Internet robust and resilient IMHO.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
Skype, Slack, Discord, and other proprietary web-based chat platforms allow uploading attachments even if your device is behind network address translation (NAT).
DCC requires the sender to be able to receive incoming connections, which is not true of a device behind NAT. UPnP is supposed to let applications configure a router to punch a hole in the NAT, but it's often disabled for security reasons, and it doesn't work anyway across a NAT operated by your ISP (called a carrier-grade network address translation or CGNAT).
Or are you referring to use of a reverse DCC SEND to let a sender behind a NAT send a file to some proxy, from which a recipient behind a different NAT retrieves the file with a normal DCC SEND? If so, which if any IRC networks make such a proxy available to their users?
"The only time I pushed back on using something is there was one from Asia that had a bad reputation for installing malware."
Was it WeChat?
Loved me some IRC back in the day! I think it was back in 97 when I got on #undernet and discovered some MP3 leeching rooms. "MP3 Borg", I think it was called. I downloaded every song I ever wanted by the time Napster came out.
"Instant" relaxing chair, according to dumbass Mi. Maybe it's the langrage ballier?
The surname of the programmer (Oikarinen) means 'short circuit' (although fortunately just a small short circuit as it's in diminutive). Quite a fitting name for such gentleman and inventor. Thank you for all the wasted hours!
That was it.
IRC as a protocol and software stack is generally crap. While it was functional, a huge swath of IRC would have to be completely rewritten - including the underlying foundations - to turn it into a modern Slack or similar service. Honestly, it would be far easier to start from scratch than to base it on IRC. While a few things could be learned from how IRC was built, I wouldn't use that code as a base for anything.
Source: Me. Maintainer of Bahamut IRCd from 2001-2018.
.
Because Slack is the latest "shiny" / fad.
"Benefits" include:
* When you are offline DM (Direct Messages) are emailed to you
* Chat saved server-side
* Multi-Factor Authentication
* Threads (can reply to someone and start a thread)
* Multi-line code snippets using ```...``` and basic MarkDown
* Editing of messages
* Preview of links
* Custom emoji
Yeah, most of those are fluff.
Now if there was only an auto-kick clueless noobs who can't fucking read the pinned messages and have to use @here in a channel of 500+ people ...
For the last several years, Oikarinen has been working at Google, overseeing the development of several personal data collection services.
At Google, "communication" is never just communication.
IRC for "instant" communications among individuals and groups, and Usenet for public forums is why there is no need for Facebook, Twitter and other centrally-controlled systems so prone to censorship and similar abuses.
Let's be honest here. IRC and Usenet clients were --- and in many ways still are --- painfully arcane and riddled with geek jargon. Microsoft Chat, the IM messaging and chat rooms of online services like AOL were proof that ift didn't have to be this way.
It's basically IRC with a few extra features, better file transfer, audio chat/screen sharing, easy ways to share code snippets and lack of compatibility with all operating systems. For people that don't know IRC, it's amazing.
It also supports bots and integration hooks that tie into things like jira, jenkins and other tools.
MidnightBSD: The BSD for Everyone
Pretty sure I did it thru NAT (thru a home Linksys firewall using NAT changing my online IP address to INTERNAL 192.168.x.x one, non-outward routeable - which was bridged to override comms control vs. default ISP modems)!
HOWEVER, in fairness? Hey - but don't quote me on that, it's been a LONG TIME since 1994-2001 when I was on IRC & I can't remember EXACTLY what type of equipment I used @ the end (2001, though I am pretty sure it was cablemodems & 1994-1998 I used dialup, 1999 was DSL, but 2000 onward? Can't recall FOR SURE, but again - pretty sure it was CABLEMODEMS via timewarner & doing bridges on a 'firewall' in hardware then).
* What brought NAT up ? Was it in your conversations earlier with others?? I'm not sure so I am asking (don't have time right now to look either so I will just ask & look later when I get back here).
APK
P.S.=> I don't know WHY you bring up NAT (unless you'd like to point out this is not "mid 1990's TRUE phone modems" in use & cable/fiber/DSL connections via 'cablemodems')... apk
Is there an IRC server distribution that supports all this?
if you look around you may even find plugins for current servers that add those enhancements
Hence why I asked "distribution".
The benefit of Skype, Slack, Discord, and HipChat is that someone without experience in looking around doesn't need to learn how to look around for a combination of server and plug-ins. To many organizers of communities of people on the Internet, the benefit of everything already being there outweighs these chat platforms' proprietary character. If someone were to come up with a solid answer for "Which server and which plug-ins?" to which I could refer people, there wouldn't be quite so much of a need for Skype, Slack, Discord, and HipChat.
So if you want to be plugged into the real-time communications of that company or group, you have to use it.
No thanks.
Has attempted to reinvent IRC in the past.
Let IRC rule supreme.
See subject: I had to port forward 113 & open a range for DCC to work over Linksys NAT 'firewall' modem in bridged config (took over ISP cablemodem) per https://forums.mirc.com/ubbthr...
* "There ya go" - the "CURE" for DCC over NAT!
(SO, if you EVER need it? Try that - I recall it working for me (port 113 stuck out bigtime in my mind & it's been a LONG time since I had to do it, as I don't use IRC now (not for ages, since 2001)).
APK
P.S.=> You made me curious about it so I looked into my favs/bookmarks "IRC" folder & "there she was" from LONG ago... apk
I think I missed half the comments.
At first glance I thought it was a scene from hackers 2.0.
Hacking into mobile phones is a walk in the park, say Rodney the experts. All it takes is a single SMS sent from the hacker's phone, to break into a phone and gain total control over it without touching the target remotely, including listening to recordings of phone conversations, reading text messages even accessing passwords and all social medias, Whatsapp Facebook etc. RODNEY the experts say that mobile is the new playground for hackers as these devices are easier to break into than PCs, and consumers pay less attention and are tardy when securing their phone. Contact him today on his Gmail Username: prohacker2177 @ gmail com or whatsapp: +16313154546 Good luck to everyone who wanna work with him and put a stop to all cheating spouse nightmare.
Back in 2008ish we started using MindAlign at a large bank I worked at, where we had a distributed team. It was great! I'd used IRC in the past and it was similar but I think better for what we were doing. I heard that MS had purchased them, and incorporated their code into MS Lync Group Chat, which we then started using because it was MS, so - Corporate Approved! :|
Then MS completely crapped on that product and killed it, and now there is MS Teams which is their super-integrated-with-O365 garbage solution to a problem they already had solved!
So where I work now we can't use Slack (not corporate approved) so we are stuck with what we fumbled around with before MindAlign way back - regular IM but no searchable logged history. It's a combination of Skype for Business and regular Skype, because we have to chat with contractors who don't have corporate accounts.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
I am APK the great "LORD of HOSTS", a.k.a. AlecStaar from ArsTechnica or Alexander Peter Kowalski.
See subject & APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ 64-bit for Linux h t t p : / / I . a m . a . f u c k i n g / a s s h o l e . r e t a r d . z i p (remove spaces between characters & download).
I am the godlike creator of various GUI front-ends for other people's configuration files.
Watch as I claim I win every argument when in reality I know I lost but that won't stop me from proclaiming my victory.
When presented with facts I rebut them with wild speculations, false support, and out of context quotes
All of my accomplishments revolve around me being proven to be an annoying spamming asshole
See me be proud of my inability to be a functional adult
Bask in my debilitating mental illness
Hear me tell stories about me living large drinking miller lite in my ramshackle duplex with a roommate at age 54.
Watch me spew some word salad because I can't string 2 words together in a coherent manner.
I just don't understand why every site I post on everyone makes fun of me, it can't be because I am a shit stick but instead because they are all Ne'er-do-well SOYboy Jealous JOWIEs.
Witness my descent into madness
APK
I use a screen reader (JAWS on Windows 7) to access my computer. Is there any good programs to interact with IRC that would play nicely with my screen reader? I've tried a couple, but either the screen reader can't determine what is important or reads the entire message history from start to finish on each screen update. Any ideas or help I missed?
And yet no protocol has been introduced since that actually solves the same problems. XMPP came close, but then died off with everyone's taste for XML.
It's not that IRC is a super great protocol, it's that it's the only standard we've got. Extend the standard (I don't agree the fundamentals would have to change for Slack). Make a new standard. Use XMPP. Whatever. Just don't introduce another useless proprietary messaging protocol.
APK just can't stop lying
Like how he claims the Chinese copied him but can't produce any evidence.
How about when he states that hosts does port filtering but again can't backup his statement which was shown to be false.
There is also his list of "experts" who support him but it turns out they don't say what he is claiming.
This also ignores his out of context quotes he uses to lie by omission.
The problem with APK is that his entire reputation is built upon the lie he told years ago that hosts is an effective security solution. It has been exposed numerous times as being a lie and when exposed APK fails to argue logically and instead will try to deflect criticism, change the subject, move the goal posts, return to a previously disproven statement, demand you prove you did better than his file concatenator, or just call people names. He will continue to lie by stating that he won or "dusted" you while failing to refute anything you said, will never provide real evidence, and generally try to dodge the issue.
Face it APK is one of the most detested individuals here for good reason. When ever his poor behavior, awful logic, over statements, and horrendous writing are called out he has a fit and has done so for years across the internet. He is a spammer, and is an abusive insecure little man who is washed up and never amounted to anything. Until he produces actual verifiable facts supporting his case nothing he says should be taken seriously.
... to turn it into Slack? NO! THAT'S THE POINT!!!
Use a DMZ instead then - it'd work & is VERY easy to do (& customers can LEARN NEW THINGS like DMZ or portforwarding).
* IF I can do it, so can anyone else I hope!
APK
P.S.=> "Where there's a will there's a way" (epsecially if others have done it before successfully & document it well for you)... apk
Who did it 1st: China or me? I did - dates are my proof http://theregister.co.uk/2017/... w/ the FACT China rampantly STEALS U.S. Intellectual properties & military secrets!
* See subject: NOBODY TRUSTS YOU as you STALK ME by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous - real "trustworthy" you are, lol (not)!
When you've done BETTER than I have in a ware that protects & speeds folks up online?
THEN, they might (you never will though & you KNOW it JEALOUS "Lil' Jowie").
Arstechnica = losers who stalked me (as you do now anonymously unidentifiably) to NTCompatible.com & Windows IT Pro magazine forums to their public dismay in Jeremy Reimer & Jay Little + Jarrett DeAngelis (who posts here on /. until I drove his ass off too) when their websites were REMOVED by their hosting providers in Shaw Canada & CrystalTech (for both email harassing me caught on a tracking ticket + stalking me & posting lies about me on them AFTER I destroyed them both PUBLICLY @ Windows IT Pro on Exchange Servers memory being freed UNHALTING them (which tells you Exchange is HEAVILY POINTER ORIENTED linked list driven, which leads to memory fragmentation that CAN halt a serverware)).
Jay Little the "self-proclaimed 'EXCHANGE EXPERT'" HAD TO CONCEDE IT from MICROSOFT'S OWN DOCUMENTATION proving it FOR me there (where they as usual stalked me AS YOU ARE NOW)
Thor SCHMUCK?
Ask him WHY his false accusation of an old ware of mine was 1st taken down to NO threat & CA sold off the SHITTY antivir he sold (as a paid pawn of theirs) & they are GONE, done. dead... lol!
Lookup "CA Accounting Scandal" on Google - scumbags & THEIR BIRDS OF A FEATHER just go down vs. me everytime!
APK
P.S.=> TONS of Security experts KNOW blacklists work (no questions asked) & 3 things show I do it right:
1st = User praise my hosts engine https://tech.slashdot.org/comm... (so much for ME being "detested" but I'm not here to win a popularity contest - just here to WIN so everyone does).
2nd "ATTACKS" I GET (from UNIDENTIFIABLE ac as Elon Musk got https://tech.slashdot.org/stor... )
3rd BEING IMITATED = "Imitation = sincerest form of flattery" https://linux.slashdot.org/com... JUST LIKE CHINA DID ME TOO... apk
See subject: As you IMPERSONATE me proving you WISH you were me though, lol - poor imitation though but sincerest form of flattery!
Despite YOU trying to "put me down" while impersonating me & in your other posts STALKING me (where I destroyed you w/ ease mind you)? Well - when YOU have done BETTER in software than I have? THEN, you can TALK talker.
(Otherwise you're just JEALOUS "Lil' Jowie" doing your usual BLOWHARD hotair talking out your ASS!)
APK
P.S.=> The only "mockery" here is you w/ your OBSESSIVE stalking or impersonating me - you're the one descending into madness (can't blame you since I blow you away constantly, I can see you getting a "wee bit 'FruStRaTeD'" (w/ your constant FAILS vs. me, lol))... apk
See subject & answer: 1.) Do hosts stop threats served by hostname (the way threats are done most) by blocking them? Yes. 2.) Do hosts speed you up 2 ways in adblocking (preventing more infection/tracking/slowdown) & via hardcoded favorite sites resolving faster + protecting vs. dns down or redirect poisoned? Yes.
My hosts program's the only 1 that does the latter @ TOP of hosts cached in RAM (for best performance) & only 1 of its kind on Linux/BSD in easy to use flexible configuration GUI form.
(I also did that latter part LONG before the Chinese & 1st http://theregister.co.uk/2017/... )
APK
P.S.-> Have you done work that is that effective doing far more for far less faster in kernelmode speed (cpu priority) w/ less complexity with excess overheads & for exploit vs. solutions KNOWN to be security-issue riddled (like addons (souled-out to NOT work by default OR easily detected & blocked that are BYPASSABLE & EXPLOITABLE), DNS & Antivirus)? No... apk
IRC as a protocol and software stack is generally crap. While it was functional, a huge swath of IRC would have to be completely rewritten - including the underlying foundations - to turn it into a modern Slack or similar service. Honestly, it would be far easier to start from scratch than to base it on IRC. While a few things could be learned from how IRC was built, I wouldn't use that code as a base for anything.
Is there such a thing as "the" IRC code, I was under the impression it was a protocol not an implementation. But in any case I think the DCC code would need a major workover. Or really any non-text case, today I'd probably go for JSON or XML, back then it was trouble enough with non-ASCII....
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
I'd 100% agree with you that trying to turn IRC into something modern like Slack just doesn't make sense. I know I certainly wouldn't try doing it.
Things like channels and nicknames, really don't work so well in modern contexts. The fact that it is an ephemeral medium, that if you're not connected to IRC, you don't have any chat history.
Trying to use IRC on a mobile device is even worse, nothing like getting a ping timeout and not realizing it for a few minutes because you hit a dead zone. Then you disconnect/rejoin rinse and repeat.
The one thing about working on an IRC daemon is that you learn a lot of lessons on how NOT to design a modern chat system.
At least that's the viewpoint of this jaded ircd-ratbox coder ;)
It's both. There are many IRC daemons out there, most of them written in C, thats what the clients connect to. The protocol presented to the client tends to be mostly compatible across implementations, with various minor quirks here and there.
As far as DCC goes, thats a client side protocol, that really doesn't involved the ircd at all beyond passing the messages between the clients exchange the IP/port info.
One of the nice things about the IRC protocol itself is that it is rather fast to parse. You can pretty easily parse it with something like strtok(). Given the time period the protocol was designed, speed of parsing is very important. Especially since most IRC daemons single threaded event driven processes.
Oh hey, small world, still.
IRCD was fun for awhile, but the underlying code did not scale as well as one might have wanted it to. It was created in a time when two geographical regions might have unstable/slow/oversubscribed pathways between them, so the "local server" that was part of a larger network was common. You don't see much of anything like that in modern services; at the very very minimum, all the details of such are now hidden from the end user. But back then... ugh. Netsplits and the channel takeovers they facilitated.
Rakarra, maintainer of the by-then-creaky DALnet Dreamforge ircd in the late 90s. I had major IRC burnout right when I graduated from college, got a job, and became DALnet coding director. Things that don't go well together.
See subject: I'd be like "it's time for a NEW ISP then", lol! Wouldn't surprise me as ISP's now handout modems where you can't do 2 things:
1.) PORT FILTER
2.) CHANGE DNS on modem itself
(Bogus weakness for SECURITY on former & LATTER too but moreso on latter due to tracking dns requestlog side...)
APK
P.S.=> Nice "talking shop" w/ you tepples (though you're throwing in some "outlier" situations here, lol)... apk
lol @ dalnet..
So its like Twitter or Facebook, except anybody can be "The Man" not just one side of a political spectrum? Sounds better than both to me the way you describe it.
See subject: That's IF (pun intended) they actually ALL do that - it's dangerous to speak in absolutes man. I also NEVER read Bert64's link so you know. Perhaps I should (just to find out IF what you claim is being "universally instituted").
* WHY would they filter out port 113 & 4999-5000 ports for? To help stop people exchanging files on IRC only?? I mean, I'm not saying it's NOT possible but pretty 'radical'!
APK
P.S.=> See subject again - can you PROVE "ALL" do that? ALL = a BIG word... apk
Tepples I understand NAT but as I said: Myanmar's an OUTLIER "exception to the general rule" compared to most locales which was my point. I'd wager most customers have options due to competition between ISPs in their given area.
* In other words, I agree w/ you IN THAT INSTANCE (but it's only an instance/exception vs. most), given the 'constraints' your example (an outlier) has.
APK
P.S.=> Again, nice talking 'shop' w/ you... apk
2001? noob.
The problem is every client connecting to the channel has to use it and you need an introduction and periodic refreshes to ensure the channel contents can't be snooped.
Hint: It doesn't protect you much better than SSL ,mandated from client to server and server to server. And it definitely doesn't protect you better than retroshare which itself is a mess but essentially does the sort of peer to peer decentralized security you are asking about, which requires far more memory and cpu time than most people might be willing to afford for all their possible contact lists.
The channel history furthermore cannot be protected as you say because you either need a centralized bouncer, or each individual client having some/all of the channel history to replicate to reconnecting users which means third parties can get ahold of it just as easy if they can connect with one or multiple user accounts periodically, making it difficult to know your conversations/history have been compromised.